How smoky should a 2 stroke be?

[SMOKEU]

My TS185 blows very little smoke, and even in the power band people who have followed me say that they can't see visible smoke coming from the exhaust but they can smell the 2 stroke oil being burned.

If I give the bike a bit of a rev up in the garage then it will have a strong smell of 2 stroke in the garage. It's running on the oil injection system at the moment.

So how smoky should it be?

[Ollie.T]

Smokey while its warming up, but not noticeable when its up to temp right?

[SMOKEU]

I replaced the spark plug with a new one about 7 hours of riding ago. I went into a Suzuki bike dealership with the frame number so I'm sure it's the right plug. When the engine is cold it smokes a fair bit, although not really while warm. Here it is after a reasonably hard ride today:

261508

Click on the pic to enlarge it. Does it look normal, or is it a bit dry?

[Fast Eddie]

I replaced the spark plug with a new one about 7 hours of riding ago. I went into a Suzuki bike dealership with the frame number so I'm sure it's the right plug. When the engine is cold it smokes a fair bit, although not really while warm. Here it is after a reasonably hard ride today:

261508

Click on the pic to enlarge it. Does it look normal, or is it a bit dry?

looks pretty dry. dunno, the 2 smokers generally smoke a wee bit, the kdx and yzf dirt bikes i play on like to smoke haha. someone in the know will stumble across the thread soon im sure.

[Latte]

All the 2 strokes i've owned have been smokey cold then clear once warmed. Unless they had issues. It sounds like yours is fine.

[JimO]

i had one of them as a first bike in 1975, dont remember it smoking to much, unlike a rd 200 i owned

[Leyton]

Yours looks good man.

You don't know smokey until you ride my 2-smoker. Has problems at the moment..

[pete-blen]

To check the pump setting on a Suzuki...
((((With the motor not running)))
hold the throtle full open... theres a mark
on the pump arm that should line up with
a indexing mark on the pump body at full throtle..
If it dosn't adjust the cable at the adjuster
where it comes though the side case...

Edit............
If it a early model...
theres a screw in the carb where the slide goes..
take it out... open the throtle till you see a mark/indent
on the slide though the hole..thats the point the pump marks
should line up...

[gammaguy]

ya know the big cookie time cookies right?

if yer plug is roughly the same color(not the chocolate chip bits,the cookie itself)

Then its all good

yours look like the cookie i dunked in my flat white a few hours ago.

ride

enjoy

repeat.

lifes good.

[scumdog]

FFS, it's a two-stroke, they're so 60's.

Dump it and get a bike with a real motor..

[SMOKEU]

FFS, it's a two-stroke, they're so 60's.

Dump it and get a bike with a real motor..

More than 2 strokes is masturbation.

[dangerous]

something thats not yet been mentioned is what fuel and oil you are using, Id expect dirter if unleaded, and if ya using a syn oil Ya wont see sfa smoke however if ya using a old school dyno oil it should be puffing all the time, thats a near perfect plug if its a well tuned race engine on avgas and syn oil.

[mossy1200]

If you were going hard for a while and shut it down straight away it looks ok.If you shut it down after riding slower then its a bit to grey.
Looks like 40/1 when should be 30/1 approx if it was a premix.
At least if it was 2 much oil all you would get is fouled plug and less power but to little becomes a big problem.

[george formby]

My TS185 blows very little smoke, and even in the power band people who have followed me say that they can't see visible smoke coming from the exhaust but they can smell the 2 stroke oil being burned.

If I give the bike a bit of a rev up in the garage then it will have a strong smell of 2 stroke in the garage. It's running on the oil injection system at the moment.

So how smoky should it be?

I followed the GF yesterday, her on a DT, a was very happy tootling along in her fumes.

The DT will puff a bit of smoke when cold but runs clean on the road. I had to use some shell oil from the garage which smoked quite a lot, very noticeable if I was doing some slow, trialsie stuff then opened it up. The bike left a big cloud of smoke. I'm back onto agip castor oil now & it runs much cleaner. I noticed no smoke at all yesterday after the initial warm up.

[Sable]

How much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?

[tigertim20]

My TS185 blows very little smoke, and even in the power band people who have followed me say that they can't see visible smoke coming from the exhaust but they can smell the 2 stroke oil being burned.

If I give the bike a bit of a rev up in the garage then it will have a strong smell of 2 stroke in the garage. It's running on the oil injection system at the moment.

So how smoky should it be?

I had one of them wayyy back when I was younger. I never used the oil injection because it was massively unrelaible. enough so that my brother seized the fucking thing, TWICE.
I just ran premix in the tank.

your plug looks okay to me.

[Coldrider]

The TS series had suzuki CCI (crank case injection), that lubricated the main crank bearings. A TS (but not the TS400), would need modifications to the bearings to run on premix. I used to run penzoil injection oil and it only ever gave a white whisper at the tailpipe.

[SMOKEU]

something thats not yet been mentioned is what fuel and oil you are using, Id expect dirter if unleaded, and if ya using a syn oil Ya wont see sfa smoke however if ya using a old school dyno oil it should be puffing all the time, thats a near perfect plug if its a well tuned race engine on avgas and syn oil.

Fresh 91 octane petrol and Castrol 2 stroke mineral oil in the oil tank.


I had one of them wayyy back when I was younger. I never used the oil injection because it was massively unrelaible. enough so that my brother seized the fucking thing, TWICE.
I just ran premix in the tank.

your plug looks okay to me.


The TS series had suzuki CCI (crank case injection), that lubricated the main crank bearings. A TS (but not the TS400), would need modifications to the bearings to run on premix. I used to run penzoil injection oil and it only ever gave a white whisper at the tailpipe.

That's the only reason why I'm not running it on pre mix.

[scumdog]

More than 2 strokes is masturbation.

2 strokes is all you'ld need, eh eh?;):D

[SMOKEU]

2 strokes is all you'ld need, eh eh?;):D

It can be our little secret.

[caspernz]

2 strokes is all you'ld need, eh eh?;):D

Nonono, it's 2 strokes and then the bell goes: "Switch hands!!"

[mossy1200]

Nonono, it's 2 strokes and then the bell goes: "Switch hands!!"

Is 2 strokes with both hands 4 stroke?

[Latte]

How much smoke should a 2 smoke smoke if a 2 smoke would smoke smoke.

[GrayWolf]

think its been covered Smokeu,
if the pump is lining up at the marks and the carb is correct (early model) the only othe 'check'? is make sure the pipes that feed the oil are in good condition, no partial blocks, or oil weeping anywhere..... you could add a very small amount and I mean SMALL as a premix and see if it makes the bike smoke a lot when its warmed up.
On my Yammy 350LC, I had it tuned quite highly and ran the pump and a little pre mix in the tank. It was smokey as a steam train cold, but only slightly smokier than normal when warm.
footnote IF you added premix as a permanent feature, you'll need to up the main jet about 1-2 sizes.

[dangerous]

footnote IF you added premix as a permanent feature, you'll need to up the main jet about 1-2 sizes.MEH, ok some reckon adding oil to the fuel means a leaner mix... my worked 350LC race bike with spannies ran std jets, as did the 250 which was also premix but stock, 190 and 230 IIRC.

[GrayWolf]

MEH, ok some reckon adding oil to the fuel means a leaner mix... my worked 350LC race bike with spannies ran std jets, as did the 250 which was also premix but stock, 190 and 230 IIRC.

yes leaner... less fuel so you need to increase jet size to get the correct fuel/air mixture.... many bikes will 'run faster' lean at the top end... but at the expense of higher temperatures and lower levels of durability of components. In the MT owners group there are a couple of serious tuners who do their own mapping to Power commanders... one lives in Finland so experiences sub -20 degree cold and then summer heats.... he found that lean mix gave about 4hp more, but the motor ran very hot... the correct 02 readings produced the lower HP and normal temperature levels

[schrodingers cat]

More than 2 strokes is masturbation.

GSXR600 right?

Wanker

[SMOKEU]

GSXR600 right?

Wanker

Jealous much?

[SS90]

Could everyone PLEASE stop feeding the Troll!

[schrodingers cat]

Could everyone PLEASE stop feeding the Troll!

Sorry - my bad. I have a habit at times of stating the blindingly obvious don't I?

[SMOKEU]

I can't see any inspection hole on the carby, and I have removed the cover for the oil pump but I can't see any marks on the pump body to line the pump arm with.

I've adjusted the pump to give a bit more oil at any given throttle position.

[tigertim20]

I can't see any inspection hole on the carby, and I have removed the cover for the oil pump but I can't see any marks on the pump body to line the pump arm with.

I've adjusted the pump to give a bit more oil at any given throttle position.

just make sure you keep checking the plug then to read whats happening.

[dangerous]

just make sure you keep checking the plug then to read whats happening.only really any good if you do a proper plug chop.

[SMOKEU]

I cleaned the pump arm and casing with a petrol soaked rag, and underneath all the crap there are 2 markings, 1 on the pump arm, and the other on the casing. However, there is no way those 2 markings will line up. I have tried pushing the pump arm by hand all the way from the closed to the fully open position and they don't come anywhere near to lining up. There is no way they can even physically line up without smashing the pump apart.

[pete-blen]

I cleaned the pump arm and casing with a petrol soaked rag, and underneath all the crap there are 2 markings, 1 on the pump arm, and the other on the casing. However, there is no way those 2 markings will line up. I have tried pushing the pump arm by hand all the way from the closed to the fully open position and they don't come anywhere near to lining up. There is no way they can even physically line up without smashing the pump apart.



Just went looking to make sure I gave you the
correct info..... I did...
Check that the arm has been instaled on the pump in the correct postion..
Or if someones had the pump apart & not put it togeather correctly...

Heres the setting info..
http://suzukits.informe.com/wiki/view/CCI_Oil_Pump_(Testing_and_Setting)

http://www.dansmc.com/2_stroke_oilpump.htm

[SMOKEU]

Heres the setting info..
http://suzukits.informe.com/wiki/view/CCI_Oil_Pump_(Testing_and_Setting)

http://www.dansmc.com/2_stroke_oilpump.htm

I've already had a look at that link and there is no way that I can see how those markings are going to line up. I've included the links to 2 of the pics I've taken of the pump, the red markings are there to show where the markings are on the pump arm and housing to make them more clear, and was taken with a closed throttle. The pic where part of my hand is visible is where I moved the pump arm to show what happens when the throttle opens. I won't embed the pics here as the mods will get shitty due to them being oversized.

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn204/SR20NP/TS185/Untitled.png

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn204/SR20NP/TS185/IMG081.jpg

[pete-blen]

I've already had a look at that link and there is no way that I can see how those markings are going to line up. I've included the links to 2 of the pics I've taken of the pump, the red markings are there to show where the markings are on the pump arm and housing to make them more clear, and was taken with a closed throttle. The pic where part of my hand is visible is where I moved the pump arm to show what happens when the throttle opens. I won't embed the pics here as the mods will get shitty due to them being oversized.

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn204/SR20NP/TS185/Untitled.png

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn204/SR20NP/TS185/IMG081.jpg


Ok.. Theres something NOT right there...........
Look at the first pic... theres no way the cable should be pulling straight
though length wise on the arm... the arm is in the wrong postion on the shaft.
I would guess the arm needs to be rotated near 90* then reinstaled on the shaft..
Something needs to rotate... wheather its the arm or pump internals ?

Dose the twist grip start of hard then suddenly get easy ?

What year is the TS... looks to be a older one ?

[SMOKEU]

Ok..
Look at the first pic... theres no way the cable should be pulling straight
though length wise on the arm... the arm is in the wrong postion on the shaft.
I would guess the arm needs to be rotated near 90* then reinstaled on the shaft..

What year is the TS... looks to be a older one ?

It's a 1973 model. I still don't see how those markings are meant to line up, even if the pump arm is rotated as much as possible. Just above the red mark on the pump casing the cable goes in and when that cable is pulled, the arm moves in a clockwise direction.

[pete-blen]

In the pic below..
Take note of were the rest point of the arm is with a closed throttle
in relationship to the pump body...
Then have a look were yours is... Your arm is about 30* retarded..
I feel the arm has to come of the pump shaft and be re-postioned..

I can only point out the possable issue... You are the one who is there...
you are the one that has to figger out how to sort it...

[Ixion]

That pumps incorrectly assembled. Check the the drive flat hasn't logged itself out. The align the marks info is correct I've done it hundreds of times on many Suzuki smokers, 50cc to 750cc.

Apropos the original question, modern two stroke oils are specially formulated to be low ash, and smoke very little, vspecially on a little engine. If you want lots of smoke, use ordinary SAE 30 as we did in the old days .