Pillioning. Is it discussed enough?

[blackdog]

I might take a little time to fully complete this post, as I have some ideas I would like to develop.

Editing may occur as I hope to formulate a resource that offers a series of hopefully good advice, useful pointers and things to bear in mind for BOTH rider and passenger.

I look forward to getting good feedback from others with pertinant information to share.



I will start with the first thing I tell anyone who has never pillioned with me before.

Simple physics really. The only forces you will feel are forward and backward. Dont even think about the side to side as you are not going to feel it, keep your mind on bracing yourself backward and forward with the machine.

Does that make sense?

[MSTRS]

I tell my pillions to make like a sack of spuds. That means just sit there. Don't 'do' anything.

As many riders need advice on how to take pillions...

[blackdog]

I tell my pillions to make like a sack of spuds. That means just sit there. Don't 'do' anything.

As many riders need advice on how to take pillions...

A sack of spuds will inevitably take a chip out of both of your helmets.

I guess I am also leading into the extra responsibility a rider has when taking a bird on the back too. I would certainly like to put together a list of good practises here if there isn't one already.

Search wasn't my friend.

[oneofsix]

Simple physics really. The only forces you will feel are forward and backward. Dont even think about the side to side as you are not going to feel it, keep your mind on bracing yourself backward and forward with the machine.

Does that make sense?

What do you mean by side to side? They will feel tilt and I tell them not to react to that, just go with it, don't try to correct it or lean into it. Backward and forward is the one they will have most issues with, it they react to tilt that is the one the rider will have most issues with.

[The Singing Chef]

Don't hug the rider tight as it impairs their movement and can lead to annoying helmet banging.

Depending on the rider style, either place you hands on the tank or hold on to grab rails at the back.

Another good place to hold is the waist as that is a more stable movement.

Match your helmet movements with the rider. i.e left to right, don't over compensate.

Be relaxed, move with the motions of the bike, not against it. You will feel it if you are.

Don't adjust anything mid-corner or at slow speed as it will upset the bike.

Have a set of codes between the rider and yourself.

-Slow down
-Speed up you nana
-Can I hop on/off?
-Can we stop? I need to piss.

Can't think of any more at the moment.

[MSTRS]

A sack of spuds will inevitably take a chip out of both of your helmets.


You can tell your pillion to put one arm around you to brace against 'falling off the back' and to lean their other arm against the tank to brace against sliding forwards. BUT...
I find this is only necessary on the track. And even then, not an absolute.
It is up to the rider to be smooth and gentle with their acceleration/braking. That will be far more effective for giving the pillion an enjoyable ride.

[cowboyz]

for a first time pillion .. there is alot to take in... I tell them to hold on with their legs and look over whatever shoulder is on the inside of the corner. they can hold on with their hands anywhere.. or not at all
so basically.. turning right.. look over right shoulder.. turning left.. look over left. their bodies follow if they want to or not without them trying. I recently pillioned a guy from palmy to napier with a 50kg of luggage. never been on a bike before and he loved it.
Holding on too tight causes tired and stress. and banging helmets is just a pain in the arse.

as a rider.. use brakes less. shortshift loads. and take wide sweeping angles into the corners. its sharp movements that make pillions nervous.

[blackdog]

Depending on the rider style, either place you hands on the tank or hold on to grab rails at the back.

The style of bike will make even more difference?

Another good place to hold is the waist as that is a more stable movement.

Match your helmet movements with the rider. i.e left to right, don't over compensate.

Not some thing I had contemplated, cheers


Don't adjust anything mid-corner or at slow speed as it will upset the bike. Yes please

Have a set of codes between the rider and yourself.

Yea I just get the slap upside the back if I start misbehavin'!

-Slow down
-Speed up you nana
-Can I hop on/off?
-Can we stop? I need to piss.

All indicated by a slap upside the back!

.

Thanks for taking the time dude.

[blackdog]

You can tell your pillion to put one arm around you to brace against 'falling off the back' and to lean their other arm against the tank to brace against sliding forwards. BUT...
I find this is only necessary on the track. And even then, not an absolute.
It is up to the rider to be smooth and gentle with their acceleration/braking. That will be far more effective for giving the pillion an enjoyable ride.

This man knows his stuff.

[blackdog]

for a first time pillion .. there is alot to take in... I tell them to hold on with their legs and look over whatever shoulder is on the inside of the corner. they can hold on with their hands anywhere.. or not at all
so basically.. turning right.. look over right shoulder.. turning left.. look over left. their bodies follow if they want to or not without them trying. I recently pillioned a guy from palmy to napier with a 50kg of luggage. never been on a bike before and he loved it.
Holding on too tight causes tired and stress. and banging helmets is just a pain in the arse.

as a rider.. use brakes less. shortshift loads. and take wide sweeping angles into the corners. its sharp movements that make pillions nervous.

Excellent input. Cheers cowboy.

[The Singing Chef]

The style of bike will make even more difference?

Yea definitely, though I have been a pillion on a Honda Deauville, Gixxer1000 streetfighter (Really small seat :shutup:) and a Beemer 1100 I think? and a Hornet 900, The only time I ever had to hold on was going up and down the Coro with a heavy pack rack at the back, front wheel was determined to lift off the ground! Going down was exciting as well. So it can also be pretty universal, as MSTRS said, it comes down to the rider being smooth and instilling confidence and trust into your pillion, if I was to ride on the back of somebody's bike that I didn't trust then I would probably tense up.

[Gremlin]

Been discussed before, if that's what you're after. Saves re-typing the info:
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/40341-Riding-with-a-Pillion
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/42576-First-pillion-ride
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/107983-Going-2-up-first-time-%28Pilot%29

[buellbabe]

Have a set of codes between the rider and yourself.

-Slow down
-Speed up you nana
-Can I hop on/off?
-Can we stop? I need to piss.

.


Yep i reckon thats a good point.

I was once pillion on my own bike and thought that my mate riding was deliberately braking just to cop a feel of my tits against his back (turns out the bike in front was all over the road and braking into corners when it didn't need to...and AJ was just looking for a place to pass) so I thought "righty-o" and deliberately gave him a couple of good "biffs" chest to back which was my way of saying "oi! settle please!". Well he thought I was egging him on to "pass everything in sight and go hell-for-leather!

I realised my mistake and just shut my eyes (yes!) and went with it cos I really had no choice!

DOH!

Communication is vital.

[SMOKEU]

I've never taken a passenger on a bike before. I'd like to find someone really light to put on the back just to start off with.

[James Deuce]

I just strap a bag to the back seat and say, "Sorry, no pillioning here".

Looking at building a single seat bike in the next couple of years.

Nothing like a pillion to ruin a good ride.

[neels]

Nothing like a pillion to ruin a good ride.
You just need to find the right pillion....

[James Deuce]

You just need to find the right pillion....

No such thing. It's just ballast that turns a motorcycle into an ill-handling wheelbarrow.

[yungatart]

No such thing. It's just ballast that turns a motorcycle into an ill-handling wheelbarrow.

Once upon a time, you pillioned me. You told me I was a good pillion...were you lying then? Or now? :oi-grr:

[blackdog]

Been discussed before, if that's what you're after. Saves re-typing the info:
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/40341-Riding-with-a-Pillion
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/42576-First-pillion-ride
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/107983-Going-2-up-first-time-%28Pilot%29

Feel free to merge us Gremlin if ya reckon it's been covered.

[oneofsix]

Once upon a time, you pillioned me. You told me I was a good pillion...were you lying then? Or now? :oi-grr:

:Oops: me be thinking James is in a no win situation now :corn:

[blackdog]

Once upon a time, you pillioned me. You told me I was a good pillion...were you lying then? Or now? :oi-grr:

Wicked burn.

[James Deuce]

:Oops: me be thinking James is in a no win situation now :corn:

Absolutely.

[yungatart]

Absolutely.

Its all right Jim, it's my fault entirely. I should perhaps be fussier about who I pillion with ;)

[Gremlin]

Feel free to merge us Gremlin if ya reckon it's been covered.
See how it develops... if I merge you won't have the first post, you mention wanting to develop some further ideas, but after a period of time passes you will no longer be able to edit old posts. Merging will allow all thoughts to be collated and easier to see the whole lot, but as I say, see if it develops into something to perhaps be stickied etc.

[blackdog]

Actually I only bring it up because me 'n Mrs stig just got back from an awesome Easter weekend up north, where we did the best part of 1000kms. Her longest excursion yet. Forgot she was there.

I wouldn't have if it had been her first ride. Actually I reckon she's due a 20,000km badge about now the angel.

[blackdog]

See how it develops...

Yer a champ.

Would be nice to get some feedback from some back saddle drivers too?

[oneofsix]

Its all right Jim, it's my fault entirely. I should perhaps be fussier about who I pillion with ;)

Oh :shit: James. A woman accepting fault. Run boy run :Oops: make that :ride: like the wind. :rofl:

[kiwifruit]

"Relax, follow me"

"You can look over my left shoulder round left handers, right round rights"

"If you need to hang on, hang onto me, the grab rail and push the tank if you need to when we brake"

"You can trust me, i will not be an idiot"

"Let me know if you're not happy and I haven't picked up on it"


It's all about being smooth and predictable. Not about trying to impress or scare your passenger.

Pillioning folk is my favourite part of working for MotoTT!

[neels]

I wouldn't have if it had been her first ride. Actually I reckon she's due a 20,000km badge about now the angel.
I suspect mine would be due about the same, and likewise you wouldn't know she's there, other than the helmet in the back when she falls asleep.

[kiwifruit]

I suspect mine would be due about the same, and likewise you wouldn't know she's there, other than the helmet in the back when she falls asleep.

Yep, you know you're doing it right when they can't stay awake!

[Fast Eddie]

I've never taken a passenger on a bike before. I'd like to find someone really light to put on the back just to start off with.

they are called girls.. the closer to naked the better. I usually take em in singlets and tight jeans.. pref no underwear

[MSTRS]

they are called girls.. .. pref no underwear

It's a myth that they stick to the seat better ...

[SMOKEU]

they are called girls.. the closer to naked the better. I usually take em in singlets and tight jeans.. pref no underwear

I can't find any skinny girls who have the balls to jump on the back of a bike with me. I'm not really sure that my bike has the torque to cope with the extra weight either. Any volunteers?

[mossy1200]

http://www.google.co.nz/imgres?imgurl=http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v299/HungusMaximist/biker.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/102410-Pillion-fun-For-guys-and-girls&usg=__uMA7BlYkQup33VhLtc_ygr0JgIc=&h=593&w=790&sz=64&hl=en&start=64&zoom=1&tbnid=_R64-dZgaK76KM:&tbnh=107&tbnw=143&ei=tsmDT4P8MbCeiAe9-8zjBw&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dmotorbike%2Bdildo%2Bseat%26start%3D63 %26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DN%26rlz%3D1T4HPAA_e nNZ451NZ451%26gbv%3D2%26tbm%3Disch&itbs=1
this thread is going familar direction

[DEATH_INC.]

No such thing. It's just ballast that turns a motorcycle into an ill-handling wheelbarrow.
Come to Taupo and try to keep up with Me and my mate......a good pillion is hardly noticeable. I actually found the extra weight settled the bike more on the road....

[Geeen]

Read in a magazine about setting up with the rear brake first when taking a pillion, tried it on the way to Aucks the other weekend. It makes braking easier, a LOT less opportunity for banging helmets and a smoother ride all round.

[Fast Eddie]

I can't find any skinny girls who have the balls to jump on the back of a bike with me.

haha whaat! you suck.. i had a range of girls before and inbetween the mrs's that want to ride on the bike.. got to uni, girls in my classes love it. only thing uni is good for - girls

shit, I had em on 250's 400's 600's etc.. they all got enough torque for an extra 50kg girl wrapped around ya... nekkid

[SMOKEU]

haha whaat! you suck.. i had a range of girls before and inbetween the mrs's that want to ride on the bike.. got to uni, girls in my classes love it. only thing uni is good for - girls

shit, I had em on 250's 400's 600's etc.. they all got enough torque for an extra 50kg girl wrapped around ya... nekkid

Unfortunately the course I'm doing is a bit of a saussy fest (not many girlies studying computing). There are a couple of hotties though, and I'm sure that after they see my bike and I bust out the good old SMOKEU charm they'll be keen for a ride.

[joan of arc]

Have ridden pillion with a few riders and each had different ideas about what made for a good ride. Some are OK with hanging on around the waist, others don't like this, or using legs to hold steady, works for some riders annoys the crap out of others so be prepared to sort out between you what works.

The common rules seem to be the ones about cornering and not actively leaning or fighting it. The sack of spud concept works but not so saggy that helmets (or if short helmet to back) bang.

[Fast Eddie]

. There are a couple of hotties though, and I'm sure that after they see my bike and I bust out the good old SMOKEU charm they'll be keen for a ride.

get to it, tell them to wear tight pants.. apparently the vibrations are good for them so they say.. literally, never tmi with some girls eh.

[SMOKEU]

get to it, tell them to wear tight pants.. apparently the vibrations are good for them so they say.. literally, never tmi with some girls eh.

The old gixxer doesn't vibrate much, but I'm sure if I disconnect 1 or 2 of the spark plugs leads I can "fix" that "problem". I'm sure there was a thread somewhere on KB about the ladies enjoying the vibrations from twin cylinder bikes...

[Fast Eddie]

The old gixxer doesn't vibrate much, but I'm sure if I disconnect 1 or 2 of the spark plugs leads I can "fix" that "problem". I'm sure there was a thread somewhere on KB about the ladies enjoying the vibrations from twin cylinder bikes...

really.. bet it does.. the blades pretty smooth and its enough.. plan b tape a running vibrator or two on the underside of the pillion seat eh

[SMOKEU]

plan b tape a running vibrator or two on the underside of the pillion seat eh

I like the way you think...the old gixxer has a pretty damn big glovebox underneath where the passenger seat goes, so there's plenty of room for a vibrator...

[mossy1200]

The old gixxer doesn't vibrate much, but I'm sure if I disconnect 1 or 2 of the spark plugs leads I can "fix" that "problem". I'm sure there was a thread somewhere on KB about the ladies enjoying the vibrations from twin cylinder bikes...

:innocent::innocent::innocent::innocent::woohoo:

[ops.normal]

Makes for interesting reading...

I find spelling out the intention is just as important as the mechanics of sitting on the back.

- The idea is to have fun and get someone interested, not scare the crap out of someone. This usually means going like a nana for the first while. Moderate acceleration on a bike is serious acceleration for someone used to (the majority of) cars.
- Helmets will clunk during first few gear changes - it's normal.
- Sit forwards and hold on to me, or sit back and hold onto grab rail. Use feet to help keep arse centred.
- If we stop at lights or intersection, don't worry about trying to put your feet down - I'll keep the bike upright (scared the crap out of me when one tried this).
- I like the idea of a simple communication system - 2 taps on your knee means pay attention (going to pass, hold on, something is up etc). 2 taps on my shoulder means pull over.
- I can't hear you unless we're stopped.

The things we take for granted have to be un-assumed and then spelled out for someone who has never been on a bike.

Having a simple and clear briefing puts a new pillion's mind at ease, and gives you a reasonable amount of confidence they won't do something that could scare you.

[Latte]

Took the mrs for a ride today and i'd like a bit of advice. Doing some liberal overtaking she complained of helmet buffeting once we hit 106-107 (might have the 0 in thevwrong place there) so wondering what can be done about that. And she liked it enough that we're thinking of heading away somewhere for an overnighter for our anniversary. Any ideas for a nice place to go for a b and b, nice scenery etc for her and some reasonably fun roads for me? From auckland roughly an easy half/full day ride.

[PrincessBandit]

As been said, a good pillion should hardly be noticeable. When on the back of anyones bike I imagine being glued to their back - hands on their waist and my elbows tucked in against my sides usually works well for me. When I have anyone on the back of my bike my main thing is to ensure they're not a squirmer. My son used to also put his hands on my shoulders, which I hated as it felt like he was pushing me down into the saddle. As the rider it is up to me to ensure I don't scare the shit out of my pillion, and all accelerating and braking is eased into considerably more. (Even for a girlie it can be painful being shoved into your petrol tank...)

[cowboyz]

Took the mrs for a ride today and i'd like a bit of advice. Doing some liberal overtaking she complained of helmet buffeting once we hit 106-107 (might have the 0 in thevwrong place there) so wondering what can be done about that. And she liked it enough that we're thinking of heading away somewhere for an overnighter for our anniversary. Any ideas for a nice place to go for a b and b, nice scenery etc for her and some reasonably fun roads for me? From auckland roughly an easy half/full day ride.

advice.. dont do 106-107

you can get passt traffic just easy at slower speeds. Depending on your bike remember the pillion is pirched up in mi air and doesnt have bars to hold on to.

make it a scarey ride and before long you will be complaining that Mrs doesnt want to spend time with you on the bike

[Latte]

advice.. dont do 106-107

you can get passt traffic just easy at slower speeds. Depending on your bike remember the pillion is pirched up in mi air and doesnt have bars to hold on to.

make it a scarey ride and before long you will be complaining that Mrs doesnt want to spend time with you on the bike

Yeah you're right, just interested why it affected her and not me. She wasn't phased by the speed itself, just the buffeting.

Cheers though

[cowboyz]

Yeah you're right, just interested why it affected her and not me. She wasn't phased by the speed itself, just the buffeting.

Cheers though


sit upright at 150+ and see exactly how much you get knocked around.. it might surprise you.

[sinfull]

Yeah you're right, just interested why it affected her and not me. She wasn't phased by the speed itself, just the buffeting.

Cheers thoughIt's just the effect of the wind going around your helmet, tell her to try ducking her head down towards yours and have a little faith at them speeds !

Oh and take her for a night at the Whangamomona hotel ! They say on a still night you can hear the banjos

[bittertwistedcute]

I was a long time pillion, have only been riding for a few years and now I pillion my daughter, who is the same height as me.

As a pillion we had "codes" tapping one leg meant pay attention (I am about to move, you are riding like a drunk man etc)
Tapping on both legs meant I need to talk to you, then we could do little hand signals for coffee, pull over now etc
I have always held on lower hip, one hand on tank if going downhill in twisties.
When sleeping I would tuck my hands under my thighs and doze off

Now that I have a pillion (what a bloody swift learning curve) we have been through

"Don't look around, ever, look over my shoulder a little or look at my back. If we are going left look over my left shoulder, right/right. Don't get on or off until you have tapped my shoulder AND I have nodded. Don't wriggle wriggle until you have tapped my leg AND I have nodded. If you need to stop soon tap both legs, if it is urgent just keep tapping"
"Don't move if we are going slow at all"
"Don't turn around and wave to your friends on the bus at the lights, mum will fall off and push you under the bike so it doesn't get scratched alright"

[GrayWolf]

Yep, you know you're doing it right when they can't stay awake!

you are talking about pillion??

:shifty: just checking

[GrayWolf]

I have always talked through what to expect with a new pillion
and as many of us old buggers find out, a lot of women tried it once as a teenager and got harry hoon scare the shit out of them.
My partner had never been on anything other than a pushbike, and fell off that so stopped riding.
I take the view a good pillion is 'made' by the rider's teaching and input.. I know Mtrs and I strongly disagreed on this before.
I will explain to them how cornering a bike works, what i expect and they need to do on the back when cornering.. I do not hold with, sack of spuds teaching... my missus was glad to know what to expect and how to react/behave.
I wont take a newbie or a was scared off it straight out onto the highway... they are a learner, so I treat them as such... Partner was quickly at ease enough to go over the 'taka's at 'speed' and out on wednesday rides with the local KBer's on the 'rapa back roads.

[Flip]

IMHO it depends on the bike a lot. Two up on a sports bike does not look very comfortable. I had a girlfriend who had a VFR400 back when they were the ducks nuts and I did not like going on the back at all. Two up on the Hog is not a problem, I just put an extra 5psi in the rear suspension and its all fine.

This was taken on a advanced riding course at Ruapuna. She who must be obeyed had no problems at all.262300

[Andy67]

Some excellent advice in this thread. I would just like to add that forward observation and planning are even more important when pillion ing given added stresses on the bikes brakes and suspension especially combined with downhill runs into tight stuff.

Here's a vid of me taking a friend out for her first ride. Her enjoyment was the most important part. I stuck to the speed limit, kept smooth and maintained a position on the road that would allo me to look through comers and avoid oncoming traffic etc. pillions don't enjoy close encounters.

Maybe there's some thing useful, hope so.

http://dpil8pjd18z0e.cloudfront.net/01B6991F9042223D341A74639FC6DCAD

Cheers

Andy

[Geeen]

Some excellent advice in this post. I would just like to add that forward observation and planning are even more important when pillion ing given added stresses on the bikes brakes and suspension especially combined with downhill runs into tight stuff.

Here's a vid of me taking a friend out for her first ride. Her enjoyment was the most important part. I stuck to the speed limit, kept smooth and maintained a position on the road that would allo me to look through comers and avoid oncoming traffic etc. pillions don't enjoy close encounters.

Maybe there's some thing useful, hope so.

http://dpil8pjd18z0e.cloudfront.net/01B6991F9042223D341A74639FC6DCAD

Cheers

Andy

What road s that? It looks tantalisingly familiar....

[Andy67]

It the run back through Awhitu from the lighthouse towards Waiuku just after the really tight stuff.

[BMWST?]

thats not the k1200 is it? sounds like a little twin

[Andy67]

:lol:No mate that's the silky tones of a GS1200 boxer twin, so pretty much on the money. K1200 is quite a bit more fruity with extra sprinkles

[Subike]

All good stuff in this thread
I have found that the style of bike can make a difference to your personal comfort level when carrying a pillion.
A lazy vee twin with touque is much more comfortable than a high revving rocket or larger cc'd naked.
To me a sort bike is for a single rider, 2 up is increasing the odds of an incident.
But a good tourer of naked can be great if you know the bike well, and can be smooth
A cruiser, is just the thing for a pillion,
Pillion carrying for me is relaxed ride, relaxed position, smooth cornering, smooth acceleration, enjoy the road, the destination will arrive when it does.
Signals are important, and discussion at each stop as to how your pillion felt, was there any moments.
Some people learn to be good pillions and can be a joy to have behind you.
Sadly another rider sometimes is the worst person to have, especially on windy roads,
So know your ride, smooth not fast, listen to your pillions comments between stops makes for enjoyable two up riding

[awa355]

My words to the wife before setting out.

" You should be okay on that seat for about an hour. If it gets too sore then I 'can' stop if its that bad."

" We need to get you some proper boots, IF, you're going to be riding, those wont protect your legs much"

" You might want to put something else on, That wont keep out the cold for long"

" Dont lean when I'm cornering, YOU might cause the bike to over balance and we could crash"

" Remember, with your weight on the bike, it makes the bike a lot trickier to handle. I cant steer it as well as when I'm riding by myself "

" Try not to bang your helmet on the back of mine"

" If you feel the suspension bottaming out, with your weight, I cant do anything about it.

" If it rains, you just have to put up with getting wet and cold"

" I'm sorry, but we cant keep stopping because your arse is hurting"

" No, I wont go all that fast"

" No, I dont mind you coming for a ride"

" Well, it's up to you, If you dont really want to come."

" Ok then, I wont be long, See ya shortly"

" Geez! we had a good ride today, You should've come"

[5150]

my advice to potential pillions (female ones) is... No grass, no ass, no ride. Works a treat :rolleyes:


Better yet, remove the dorris seat so no extra weight on the back can be carried, which in turn leaves room for knee scratching through the twisties

[george formby]

I bumped into two couples yesterday gassing up so I wandered over to say haroo. In the course of the conversation the lady pillions both voiced a big dislike of bendy roads. Their trip was all on SH 10 avoiding the interesting detours. One of the ladies commented that all riders (men) should be made to ride pillion, the other claimed to get sick on bendy roads.
I'm not going to jump to conclusions but this struck me as a little odd. My GF loves getting on the back, well, used too, the more corners the merrier but now she has her own bike.
Riders not smooth enough, pillions not relaxed? Who knows?
They both had good bikes for two up, a cruiser & a multistrada.

[helenoftroy]

I bumped into two couples yesterday gassing up so I wandered over to say haroo. In the course of the conversation the lady pillions both voiced a big dislike of bendy roads. Their trip was all on SH 10 avoiding the interesting detours. One of the ladies commented that all riders (men) should be made to ride pillion, the other claimed to get sick on bendy roads.
I'm not going to jump to conclusions but this struck me as a little odd. My GF loves getting on the back, well, used too, the more corners the merrier but now she has her own bike.
Riders not smooth enough, pillions not relaxed? Who knows?
They both had good bikes for two up, a cruiser & a multistrada.

WTF!! Why do those guys bother !!

Real girls ride their own...and I choose to have a single seat & one set of pegs !!:devil2:

[GrayWolf]

I bumped into two couples yesterday gassing up so I wandered over to say haroo. In the course of the conversation the lady pillions both voiced a big dislike of bendy roads. Their trip was all on SH 10 avoiding the interesting detours. One of the ladies commented that all riders (men) should be made to ride pillion, the other claimed to get sick on bendy roads.
I'm not going to jump to conclusions but this struck me as a little odd. My GF loves getting on the back, well, used too, the more corners the merrier but now she has her own bike.
Riders not smooth enough, pillions not relaxed? Who knows?
They both had good bikes for two up, a cruiser & a multistrada.

Sadly some guys think it's funny to have that effect on their partners. About 5yrs ago I took a girlfriend (didnt become my partner) to a Vintage Japanese Motorcycle Meeting at Stratford.. We went on a ride to Whangamamona, agreed we were all 'giving it some' over the saddle.. the girlfriend was almost 'screaming' in her lid as I was really heaving the FJ around... jokingly I quipped, "it's OK inside your crash helmet, no one can hear you scream" but she knew all she had to do was tap my shoulder to slow me down (pre arranged).. However the group I was in had to stop as one guys partner was actually physically sick from the rapid cornering... This was a cause of great 'mirth and 'pride'? for the husband... who as soon as she got back on continued to go flat out.....
Now roll that forwards to my partner? You'd be nursing sore kidneys for several weeks!! DAMHIK,, hahaha

[neels]

Real girls ride their own
I know someone that might disagree with that :rolleyes:


Now roll that forwards to my partner? You'd be nursing sore kidneys for several weeks!! DAMHIK,, hahaha
Mine has no issues with giving me 'feedback' on my riding, during and afterwards....

It's not that difficult to have some fun and still make it a nice ride for the one on the back, the only issue I have these days is the bike moving around when she gets the dancy thing going on the back when the mp3 gets to a song she likes

[helenoftroy]

I know someone that might disagree with that :rolleyes:


Mine has no issues with giving me 'feedback' on my riding, during and afterwards....

It's not that difficult to have some fun and still make it a nice ride for the one on the back, the only issue I have these days is the bike moving around when she gets the dancy thing going on the back when the mp3 gets to a song she likes
Haha ! I am just stirring and your gorgus Lou is an exception - shes a groovy chick!:msn-wink:

[G4L4XY]

I'm not sure if I should say this but if you have a lady (or a guy for all your dirty old bastards out there) and you reach around and find the rear seat and slide your hand back until you find their leg (im really meaning other bits) and give them a lil tickle I hear they like that ;)

[tristania]

I found it blimmin tricky pillioning for the first time, after years of riding my own. My cruiser doesn't take the corners like a pocket rocket so going fast and far over in the corners on the back was a hair raising experience until I could get used to it. Plus you have to really trust the rider and leave them to it.. not so easy when you're used to being in control ;)
I'm still working out how to pillion correctly!

[Andy67]

I never could get my head around the motion sickness thing until I rode a 1200 GS from Waipu to kaukapakapa a few months back. Something about a tall bike and compliant suspension just got to me through the twisties, very different for sure. To all those that are lucky enough to have a partner who likes to ride or be a pillion then you have something amazing to share. Plenty don't.

[george formby]

I never could get my head around the motion sickness thing until I rode a 1200 GS from Waipu to kaukapakapa a few months back. Something about a tall bike and compliant suspension just got to me through the twisties, very different for sure. To all those that are lucky enough to have a partner who likes to ride or be a pillion then you have something amazing to share. Plenty don't.

This is so, so true. I am having the most biking fun ever, well nearly, now that the missus is on the road. A pleasure shared is a pleasure doubled.

Which brings me to another thing, bikes are exciting so any partners that ride together, pillion or independently, do you ever stop for a quickie in the bushes?:devil2::laugh:

[Andy67]

This is so, so true. I am having the most biking fun ever, well nearly, now that the missus is on the road. A pleasure shared is a pleasure doubled.

Which brings me to another thing, bikes are exciting so any partners that ride together, pillion or independently, do you ever stop for a quickie in the bushes?:devil2::laugh:

George you don't need to ride a bike to do that mate....:rolleyes:

I worked with a lady whose husband owned a Griso, by all accounts a few hours on that bike sure did the trick :devil2:

[george formby]

George you don't need to ride a bike to do that mate....:rolleyes:

I worked with a lady whose husband owned a Griso, by all accounts a few hours on that bike sure did the trick :devil2:

:laugh: Certain bikes are more appealing to lady pillions than others. A friend rode across Australia on an old Harley with the missus on the back. She got so bored that she put a golf ball into the pillion seat. Reckons it was the best holiday she has ever had but was hell on her knickers.

[Andy67]

:laugh: Certain bikes are more appealing to lady pillions than others. A friend rode across Australia on an old Harley with the missus on the back. She got so bored that she put a golf ball into the pillion seat. Reckons it was the best holiday she has ever had but was hell on her knickers.

Haha!!! I think I just sharted :laugh:

[GrayWolf]

:laugh: Certain bikes are more appealing to lady pillions than others. A friend rode across Australia on an old Harley with the missus on the back. She got so bored that she put a golf ball into the pillion seat. Reckons it was the best holiday she has ever had but was hell on her knickers.

mine found the MT 'interesting' :msn-wink:

[nzspokes]

Im going to be taking a pillion out for the first time soon. What is best practice for them getting on the bike? Rider first then pillion?

I would have thought thats the best way?

[neels]

Depends on the bike and the pillion really, my XJ600 it was easier for mrs to get on first and me after, ducati it works better if I get on first. The bandit has a pretty big seat so should be easy enough for a pillion to get on with the rider on, my mrs finds it easier to step up on the front peg to get a leg over.

[nzspokes]

Depends on the bike and the pillion really, my XJ600 it was easier for mrs to get on first and me after, ducati it works better if I get on first. The bandit has a pretty big seat so should be easy enough for a pillion to get on with the rider on, my mrs finds it easier to step up on the front peg to get a leg over.

The lady Im taking has had hip surgery so her on first may be better then. Do you just sit it on the side stand while she gets on?

Sorry, total newb at this.

[neels]

The lady Im taking has had hip surgery so her on first may be better then. Do you just sit it on the side stand while she gets on?

Sorry, total newb at this.
Yep, more room if you leave the bike on the sidestand and she climbs on, and maybe hang on to the handlebar to stop the bike moving around or heading highside if too much weight goes that way. Was always the way I did it on the yammy, not so keen with duc as the sidestand is mounted on the engine casing.

[nzspokes]

Yep, more room if you leave the bike on the sidestand and she climbs on, and maybe hang on to the handlebar to stop the bike moving around or heading highside if too much weight goes that way. Was always the way I did it on the yammy, not so keen with duc as the sidestand is mounted on the engine casing.

Cheers. I want her to enjoy it so want to have some idea before we start.

Guess getting a knee down and wheelies are out. :baby:

[mrchips]

Yep, more room if you leave the bike on the sidestand and she climbs on, and maybe hang on to the handlebar to stop the bike moving around or heading highside if too much weight goes that way. Was always the way I did it on the yammy, not so keen with duc as the sidestand is mounted on the engine casing.

My wifes got, ahem....... short legs so i park adjacent a kerb or something to give her a bit of height, helps with swinging her leg over the pillion seat. Failing that the above method where she climbs on & shimmy's back onto the pillion seat works a treat. Just grab the front break ! Desn't take much jiggling for the thing to roll forward off the side stand..... not a good look !

[nzspokes]

My wifes got, ahem....... short legs so i park adjacent a kerb or something to give her a bit of height, helps with swinging her leg over the pillion seat. Failing that the above method where she climbs on & shimmy's back onto the pillion seat works a treat. Just grab the front break ! Desn't take much jiggling for the thing to roll forward off the side stand..... not a good look !

Crap!! Thanks for that. Front brake will be held.

[John_H]

Squeeze with hips when braking helps.
Hold gently onto waist.
When mounting bike put one arm on your shoulder so you can brace up the bike. Once their ready to take off give a tap on the shoulder, which save all the muffled helmet communication of "Are you ready?"

[sinfull]

Crap!! Thanks for that. Front brake will be held.

Watch you don't create too much stress on the side stand, they aren't built to take much more than the bikes weight !

If yr lady has just had a hip done, whats her other one like ? If she can step up a flight of stairs, have her try stepping up on one rear peg if it aint too high and like John said a tap on the shoulder to let ya know to brace, then she just steps up on to one side and gently puts the bad hip over the seat !

[Maha]

The lady Im taking has had hip surgery so her on first may be better then. Do you just sit it on the side stand while she gets on?

Sorry, total newb at this.

Did this take place?
Was said pillion new to this also?
I would very interested to hear about the outcome.

[CookMySock]

I tell my pillions this ;

This is the handgrip behind your butt, hold on if you want to, or else put your hands on your thighs.

You don't HAVE to DO anything.

It will be nicer and more interesting for you if you do this - look at the road ahead, and for a left-hand corner move your helmet to the left and look at the oncoming road past the riders helmet - don't take your eyes off the road. If the rider moves in their seat, then leave your head and body in the same position. Rinse and repeat for right-hand corners. In windy roads, make the transition as fluid as possible with no sudden movements.

If you are having fun in the corners and would like to "get involved", then BEFORE the rider tips the bike in - for a left-hand corner, put your left knee out and lean on it with your left hand, while holding the grab bar with your other hand. Rinse and repeat for righhand corners. Never move whatsoever while the rider is mid-corner.

Please don't touch the rider while he/she is busy.

Wriggle about by all means - on a straight piece of road, never in a corner or manoeuvring at low speed (like U turns.)

If you feel uneasy, don't understand something, or get a fright, look down at your crotch and DO NOTHING.

Hand signals briefing - stop, go, left, right, slow down.

[nzspokes]

Did this take place?
Was said pillion new to this also?
I would very interested to hear about the outcome.

Not tried yet. Pillion will be new to it so Im going to ask a lady friend who has pillioned before to come with me so I can get a feel for it. But first I want some more time on the new bike to fully have the feel of it. No hurry.

Was intrested to be stopped at a pub in Mercer on the weekend watching different styles of riders getting on the back. So if you thought there was some creepy old dude checking out your women, I was just watching how they got on your bike. Honest. :dodge:

[CookMySock]

erm, btw I am surprised you'd leave the sidestand down while loading a pillion - its very easy to drop the bike doing this.

What happens, particularly so with, er, larger pillions, is they climb on and flomp down, er, heavily, which suddently compresses the rear suspension down to the point where the bike is now on a substantial lean away from the kickstand, and you are putting a huge amount of force on the bars and your right foot to hold the bike upright. Pretty much at this point you are screwed unless you can hiss through your gritted teeth that they should get back off again very quickly, or you have the strength and presence of mind to lean the very heavy bike (and the pillion) further over, clear the fouled kickstand and stow it, and then return the bike upright, but frankly I do not like your chances.

I put the kickstand up, direct the pillion to the left rear of the bike, tilt the bike to the right and put all my weight on my right foot, hold the bars and the front brake, and invite them to mount the left footpeg with their left foot, and swing the right foot over in the conventional manner. Loading in this way is a total non-event. I (91kg) can even climb on the back of my 650 with my little 17 y/o daughter (55kg!) at the controls, and it is completely a non event for her. If this was done with the kickstand down, the bike would be on the ground in seconds, and there would be absolutely nothing the rider could do about it.

[nzspokes]

erm, btw I am surprised you'd leave the sidestand down while loading a pillion - its very easy to drop the bike doing this.

What happens, particularly so with, er, larger pillions, is they climb on and flomp down, er, heavily, which suddently compresses the rear suspension down to the point where the bike is now on a substantial lean away from the kickstand, and you are putting a huge amount of force on the bars and your right foot to hold the bike upright. Pretty much at this point you are screwed unless you can hiss through your gritted teeth that they should get back off again very quickly, or you have the strength and presence of mind to lean the very heavy bike (and the pillion) further over, clear the fouled kickstand and stow it, and then return the bike upright, but frankly I do not like your chances.

I put the kickstand up, direct the pillion to the left rear of the bike, tilt the bike to the right and put all my weight on my right foot, hold the bars and the front brake, and invite them to mount the left footpeg with their left foot, and swing the right foot over in the conventional manner. Loading in this way is a total non-event. I (91kg) can even climb on the back of my 650 with my little 17 y/o daughter (55kg!) at the controls, and it is completely a non event for her. If this was done with the kickstand down, the bike would be on the ground in seconds, and there would be absolutely nothing the rider could do about it.

Good info, I had thought I would leave it down. I wont now. Cheers.

[mrchips]

erm, btw I am surprised you'd leave the sidestand down while loading a pillion - its very easy to drop the bike doing this.

Good point....... I've set preload on my bikes for pillion riding so there's sod all suspension compression in any situation. You'd need one heavy mofo to dig my side stand in.

I wish my wife would mount the traditional way but climbing up & putting all he weight on a high, flimsy pillion footpeg freaks her out. She prefers the karate chop style mount (from the left side). I always leave the s/stand down for the day she decides to slip & drag me (& the bike) down with her.

[varminter]

Dunno if this has been mentioned (not read all of this) but it's a lot different riding with a pillion. Apart from now two lives at stake, the bike rides different and braking is harder, with the wife/girlfriend/significant other pushing in to your back if you nail the anchors harder than expected. having said that, getting on and off is usualy the problem, nice when my wife is there, she can help me pick it up again, and has several times:rolleyes: Our first trip out was on a 250, I swear the front wheel was off the ground! Pays to read the book for pillions and alter the rear pre load and tire pressure. Oh, did I mention it's fun?

[neels]

Far too many scary stories being told.

The mrs is short so she can't swing a leg over the back of the ducati, so I get on first and she uses the front peg as a step up to the back peg and gets on. On my yamaha she did the same but on the sidestand as there was less room for flailing of limbs.

Make sure you tell your pillion if they want to brace themselves when you're braking to put their hands on the bottom of your back, not your shoulders, weight on your arms while trying to steer sucks.

Otherwise, it's a pretty simple game, mrs just sits there most of the time not holding on to anything. I can tell when she's gone to sleep because I get a helmet between the shoulder blades.

[Maha]

Having a pillion on the back is piss easy if both know thier roll.
It can be real daunting if they dont.

Anne is a great pillion, at times, I had to look to see if she was still there...:rolleyes:
When I first pillioned her, after about 2Ks, she moved to settle in (so to speak) and fuck did that unnerve me?
She did that on purpose to let me what it felt like, when someone moves on the back.

[Juniper]

Hey so is there a pillion part of the site??

I'm just after some advice/tips for being pillion in a faster environment, Lets say track. Figure if I get the tips for the faster track type riding I can use them in more open road riding to optimise our 2up performance.

I'm not too bad to start with. Sweepers and 65kph+ are fine. It's just those 45-65's that get nice and tight where leaning off the seat just fits that I want to improve on.

Do we have any pillions out there that track race with their riders or have that knee droppiń bum off seat style?

Not keen on those pillion handles for the riders clothing. More interested in those pillion tank handles. Has anyone tried those?

[Devil]

Bluntly, if you're a pillion stay the fuck still. Be a sack of potatoes.
On a sportsbike if your arms are long enough, reach around the rider and brace yourself using the gas tank. Try and leave the rider room.
Dont move your body mass around much - head is ok.

[Devil]

Depending on the length of your limbs, if you're braced on the tank, then you can brace your elbows on the inside of your knees too, to make yourself one with the bike. Just like a piece of luggage. A fixed mass on the bike is much easier to deal with than a moving one.

[Juniper]

Hehe I have relatively runty limbs, but yes I do often rest my elbows on my knees.

I think we are a bit past the sack of potatoes stage. Though I agree the least disruption to the rider the better.

Pillions: when your rider slides off the seat do you slide with? Open that leg almost like a knee drop so to give them more space to slide?

[Devil]

Leave your arse planted. By all means open a leg to give teh rider room, but leave your butt there.

[haydes55]

Alternately you can keep bum and legs still and follow the riders helmet with yours. Try look ahead as you would if you were riding (if you can see over on a higher pillion seat). So just moving your upper body into the corners.

It really depends what the rider prefers though. Some may prefer you hold onto pillion handles others might prefer you grab around their waist (which would mean you would need to follow his body side to side).

[Gremlin]

Very rarely do bikes go on the track 2 up. No category for racing, some track days allow a few laps.

Otherwise, a few representatives from the likes of ACC or NZTA have gone round with an instructor to see what it's like. Also seen a few racers take a sponsor for a few hot laps on a specially setup bike with a big handle on the tank usually.

Every now and then a thread is started, here's one I found: http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/148606-Pillioning-Is-it-discussed-enough?

In the beginning, act like a sack of spuds. Don't look out of the corner and definitely don't move your weight mid corner.
When you get more comfortable look into the corner over the riders shoulder, it will make you lean.
Sportsbikes, brace yourself against the tank if you can, stop yourself sliding into the rider. Guys appreciate this especially.
Otherwise, a lot is trust and time in the seat. You should never be riding that quick 2 up, as the rider holds both people's lives in their hands.
Neither person should be moving around on the seat when 2 up.

[Juniper]

Alternately you can keep bum and legs still and follow the riders helmet with yours. Try look ahead as you would if you were riding (if you can see over on a higher pillion seat). So just moving your upper body into the corners.

It really depends what the rider prefers though. Some may prefer you hold onto pillion handles others might prefer you grab around their waist (which would mean you would need to follow his body side to side).

See I go with a move 1 with the rider idea so if I'm not moving my legs and bum and they go to slide off I would be getting in the way. I use my upper body for the righ hand corners as heroes my usually lean off on that side and I keep my head to the right anyway so that works. Left hand corners are more trust as I can't see round them.

Where I can I always look into the corner as if I was riding, moving as 1......well we try anyway lol.

[Dogboy900]

I figure stay on the seat and hang on for dear life! Seems to work for Randy's pillions.

[GravelRashKid]

I spent about 6 years as a pillion with the same rider, before I got my own pair of wheels. We got so damn good we didn't often meet other bikes who could keep up with us (oh the Mangamuka Gorge...). He told me that we were often faster 2up than he was 1up. Unfortunately we never got to ride 2up on the track - now THAT would have been fun.
A big part of getting that good 2up, was both of us dropping the knee and sliding off the seat (very much in unison), although this level of synchronisation took years.

So it can be done. It would be great to learn tips and tricks, or props, to achieve this in less than 5 or 6 years!

[Katman]

I spent about 6 years as a pillion with the same rider, before I got my own pair of wheels. We got so damn good we didn't often meet other bikes who could keep up with us (oh the Mangamuka Gorge...). He told me that we were often faster 2up than he was 1up. Unfortunately we never got to ride 2up on the track - now THAT would have been fun.
A big part of getting that good 2up, was both of us dropping the knee and sliding off the seat (very much in unison), although this level of synchronisation took years.

So it can be done. It would be great to learn tips and tricks, or props, to achieve this in less than 5 or 6 years!

What's dumber than an idiot on a bike?






Two idiots in a bike.

[Banditbandit]

Pillions: when your rider slides off the seat do you slide with? Open that leg almost like a knee drop so to give them more space to slide?

Riders should not slide off the seat when you have a pillion ...

If you're a rider and you have a pillion it's best not to go fast enough to have to slide off the seat .. ...

[Jeff Sichoe]

Pillions usually work best when they weigh much much less than the rider...

So either loose some weight or get your rider to eat some pies and that should sort that out!

[nzmikey]

leave your arse planted. By all means open a leg to give teh rider room, but leave your butt there.

^^^^^^^^^ that

[nzmikey]

sportsbikes, brace yourself against the tank if you can, stop yourself sliding into the rider. Guys appreciate this especially.
Otherwise, a lot is trust and time in the seat. You should never be riding that quick 2 up, as the rider holds both people's lives in their hands.
Neither person should be moving around on the seat when 2 up.

^^^^^^^ & that

[Juniper]

Riders should not slide off the seat when you have a pillion ...

If you're a rider and you have a pillion it's best not to go fast enough to have to slide off the seat .. ...

Why not?

2up riding for us is the same as others 1up. You push limits just a little bit each time till you become better.
People who push too hard fall off.
Just takes us a little longer and takes more work as there is a trust, communication and synchronisation that needs to be learnt/formed as well.

There are track racing pillions and riders out there. They all started off at some point.

We're not being reckless, we practice slow speed when we can, hit the open road a few times a week and stop for assessment of style and methods on every trip. And have forms of communication while riding like slow down, yes ive seen that over take I'm ready let's do it or yeah fuck that, go left/right.

That's why I'm asking for pillion techniques. Rider tips would be interesting too.

[Juniper]

Pillions usually work best when they weigh much much less than the rider...

So either loose some weight or get your rider to eat some pies and that should sort that out!

Haha ok we're fucked!!!

[Gremlin]

Why not?
Moving around on a bike can unsettle it. Two people moving around is even worse. Stability and smoothness is your primary focus. Getting a knee down on the racetrack is for feeling how low the bike is to the ground... On the road you shouldn't be trying for that. You can put it out for balance, but if you're sitting in the middle of the bike, there really isn't a point.


2up riding for us is the same as others 1up. You push limits just a little bit each time till you become better.
People who push too hard fall off.
Don't push any limits on the road. You already seem to know why, yet still ask :scratch:


There are track racing pillions and riders out there. They all started off at some point.
Where have you seen a racing series of pillions? It might be for fun in buckets, but that's about it. No, there is no practise. All that commercial stuff is pillion, hang on here and here, the rider will do the rest. Sidecars not included.


That's why I'm asking for pillion techniques. Rider tips would be interesting too.
Once the pillion has the riding skills sorted, the number one tip is don't fall asleep unless the bike is setup for it (top box etc). You might think I'm joking, but I'm not. I remember taking 4-5 attempts to pass a car dawdling along straights at 80kph on a sportsbike, because the pillion was asleep and each time I tried to open the throttle she drifted backwards enough for me to worry.

The rider's responsibility is to ride smoothly and safely and create a friendly trusting environment for the pillion to also enjoy the ride. Remember that the bike is most unstable at lower speeds and gets more stable as you head towards 100kph.

I've carried people 50kg to 140kg, sportsbikes to cruisers, and in competitive events, like media standing up, hanging from one side then suddenly the other side and getting through tight spaces etc.

[Maha]

Alternately you can keep bum and legs still and follow the riders helmet with yours. Try look ahead as you would if you were riding (if you can see over on a higher pillion seat). So just moving your upper body into the corners.

It really depends what the rider prefers though. Some may prefer you hold onto pillion handles others might prefer you grab around their waist (which would mean you would need to follow his body side to side).

I hate that grab around the waist thing, Anne sometimes does the cuddle thing but not as a preference for hanging on. No real need to hang on at all if the rider is doing the job. Under braking, hands on the tank.
Once you are on the rear seat, you become part of the bike, don't try and ride it from that position...iykwim :msn-wink:

[nzmikey]

Weight is also another factor in this equation as well .

Your Weight

+

Riders weight

+

Bike weight

=

A lot of weight to be chucking about .... for shits n giggles somehow go strap 85kg to the arse of your bike & go ride it ... you cant tell me that you can throw it around with as much ease as you can when you are 1up ...

[bogan]

Weight is also another factor in this equation as well .

Your Weight

+

Riders weight

+

Bike weight

=

A lot of weight to be chucking about .... for shits n giggles somehow go strap 85kg to the arse of your bike & go ride it ... you cant tell me that you can throw it around with as much ease as you can when you are 1up ...

Yup, last time I had a pillion it was on the KR-E, which has a center mass somewhere round my lower shins, since it also has a raised pillion seat, the difference with an extra 70kg up there was huge.

Seems to me the first thing on a pillion oriented bike's list should be a trip to RT.

Total Performance Riding or some similar name by Lee Park has a fairly detailed section on pillioning, and he has done a bit at the track and there may be a pillion racing series over in US. Recommend you get your hands on a copy of that Juniper.

[Gremlin]

Seems to me the first thing on a pillion oriented bike's list should be a trip to RT.
On that note, good point. Depending on the bike (not mentioned) sportsbikes for example, are setup for 65-75kg odd. No way that's going to work for 2up properly.

I can actually put a good plug for Rob here. The GSA has a set of electronic ohlins fitted, fantastic for 2up work with 2up mode dialled in. Even had cycling officials commenting on how smooth and planted it was when we're hitting 100kph on closed suburban roads...

[Jeff Sichoe]

To be fair, she was looking for tips on how to improve her Pillion riding technique, not looking for instructions on how to become as fast as 1up ...

[nzmikey]

Seems to me the first thing on a pillion oriented bike's list should be a trip to RT.


RT being Robert Taylor btw

[Juniper]

Katana

At work so will reply properly to posts later.

[Maha]

To be fair, she was looking for tips on how to improve her Pillion riding technique, not looking for instructions on how to become as fast as 1up ...

You have to be more fluent than when you're riding solo, that's a given. Be mindful that there is that extra weight on the back. A smaller bike will feel different with an extra 70+kgs, and if that person is not familiar with their roll as a pillion, then the bike could feel like a sack of shit. Rear suspension adjustment is a must, brake earlier than usual, don't be jerky through the gears (helmet clash is not good) the technique list is very small and the experience shouldn't be of concern.

[Drew]

Interesting thread topic. Kiwifruit is the man to ask for pillion tips. Done a lot of laps round Taupo two up that mofo. Drags his knee, two up on something horrid like a GSX1400 or B-King.

On the road though. I can get along fast enough to get a passengers heart rate up, without moving my arse, or pushing the front end of the bike. That's the absolute limit for me.

[Laava]

I find that clipping bollards gets the pillions a bit excited. Plus they have to help me right the bike which is good cardio for them. I am a good cunt like that.

[Mom]

Sneezing.

Don't sneeze, I find the reaction from a sneeze over rides any other pillion riding tip I can give. Big sneeze results in helmet clash. Maha thinks I have fallen asleep and grabs up a huge handful of brakes to wake me up, resulting in another helmet clash :pinch:

Don't sneeze.

[hayd3n]

getting punched in the ribs is not a indication that your pillion wants to go faster , i found out the hard way lol

[Maha]

Sneezing.

Don't sneeze, I find the reaction from a sneeze over rides any other pillion riding tip I can give. Big sneeze results in helmet clash. Maha thinks I have fallen asleep and grabs up a huge handful of brakes to wake me up, resulting in another helmet clash :pinch:

Don't sneeze.

It was night time, I thought you nodded off :zzzz:
:psst: Not such a rare thing, a number of pillions do actually fall sleep.

[Bikemad]

many years ago in ChCh a few of us yobbos took turns riding and being pillioned around sitting backwards holding the grabrail between ya legs.......scary shit at first but you sure did sit still and though you couldn't see you still knew what was coming.........but not when

[russd7]

ok, wasn't gonna get dragged in to this one but WTF
firstly, theres a saying which is quite true, if you dragging your knee whn riding on the road you are trying to hard, if you are not dragging your knee when riding on the track then you are not trying hard enough.

ok yeah when i take any one for a ride they are told to look at the back of my helmet and go where ever that goes, im to lazy to slide off the seat,I dont need to hang off to have a shit load of fun whether 1up or 2up, there are not many roads around where you cant maintain 100km/hr without dragging ya knee.

has been said already that bikes need to be set up to pillion, and when you don't have the luxury of electronics on ya suspension then ya have to find a happy medium.
pillions do go to sleep on the back of bikes which is why i you need to be aware of what the pillion is up to, normally the helmet resting on my back means the wife is sleep so when coming up to some twisties i give her leg a shake.
i have never had an issue with the pillion sliding in to me under heavy braking, im normally braced anyway so never been an isuue.

weight is definately an issue, the zzr is 233kg dry, add to that 20l fuel and 4l oil and thats 257kg, then add a 110kg rider, theres 367kg , add to that 70 or 80 kg of pillion, thats 440kg then add some panniers and gear and you gettin over half a tonne that ya want to stay on the road with 8 square inches of rubber, the goldwing is over half a tonne as soon as i climb on

[unstuck]

ok, wasn't gonna get dragged in to this one but WTF
firstly, theres a saying which is quite true, if you dragging your knee whn riding on the road you are trying to hard, if you are not dragging your knee when riding on the track then you are not trying hard enough.

ok yeah when i take any one for a ride they are told to look at the back of my helmet and go where ever that goes, im to lazy to slide off the seat,I dont need to hang off to have a shit load of fun whether 1up or 2up, there are not many roads around where you cant maintain 100km/hr without dragging ya knee.

has been said already that bikes need to be set up to pillion, and when you don't have the luxury of electronics on ya suspension then ya have to find a happy medium.
pillions do go to sleep on the back of bikes which is why i you need to be aware of what the pillion is up to, normally the helmet resting on my back means the wife is sleep so when coming up to some twisties i give her leg a shake.
i have never had an issue with the pillion sliding in to me under heavy braking, im normally braced anyway so never been an isuue.

weight is definately an issue, the zzr is 233kg dry, add to that 20l fuel and 4l oil and thats 257kg, then add a 110kg rider, theres 367kg , add to that 70 or 80 kg of pillion, thats 440kg then add some panniers and gear and you gettin over half a tonne that ya want to stay on the road with 8 square inches of rubber, the goldwing is over half a tonne as soon as i climb on

I tried sliding into the back of you, but your too much of a tight arse.:blip:

Did I do well????

[russd7]

I tried sliding into the back of you, but your too much of a tight arse.:blip:

Did I do well????
:motu:
just as well i dint have to brake hard then huh :lol::lol::lol:

are ya gonna pop round to the mates rally

[unstuck]

:motu:
just as well i dint have to brake hard then huh :lol::lol::lol:

are ya gonna pop round to the mates rally

Not sure yet. Got a lot happening at the moment, but I may find time.:2thumbsup

[GravelRashKid]

Don't push any limits on the road.
This must be a misinterpretation of Juniper's comment "You push limits just a little bit each time till you become better".
She's not saying pushing the limits as in knee scraping, rear tyre sliding, front wheel off the ground limits. Nor is she saying taking risks with traffic or road surface. She's saying gradually improving the skill level, as all motorcyclists do by default when riding over time (i.e. learning), else they would still ride as they had in their first week.

There are different riding styles and we each have our preferences. The motorcyclist for whom I have the most respect for, doesn't open his knee let alone slide off the seat.
In the later portion of my riding years, I have begun to enjoy sliding off the seat on the odd occasion (such as Mangamuka Gorge). This is not necessarily to get more speed through the corner, it's because I enjoy doing it. When it's smooth and controlled it feels amazing.

It seems my post (#10) got under the collar of a few. I should clarify that I don't envisage completely replicating my 20 year old pillion experience as a rider now.
For one, the rider I pillioned with was a hell of a lot better rider than I'll ever be.
Two, I was not a rider back then, once I developed my own riding style we lost our complete unison.
Three, it's not that total package of "skill and speed 2-up to be faster than 1-up" that I'm aiming to "achieve in less than 5-6 years". I'm more thinking of establishing that rider/pillion synchronisation which allows this style of riding occasionally, for the enjoyment of it.

Thanks for the ideas of Rob Taylor, Lee Parks and Kiwifruit. And I love the tip about sneezing, thanks Anne.

[Juniper]

Been some interesting replies. Thanks Brian for posting!!

[Juniper]

I do like this thread a lot better!!

Very informative.

[BuzzardNZ]

Sneezing.

Don't sneeze, I find the reaction from a sneeze over rides any other pillion riding tip I can give. Big sneeze results in helmet clash. Maha thinks I have fallen asleep and grabs up a huge handful of brakes to wake me up, resulting in another helmet clash :pinch:

Don't sneeze.

Also, don't chunder. Mate of mine did that in a full face while on the back of my old Suzuki GP125, which almost caused me to crash, but mainly from laughter ( even though some went down my neck :sick: )

[GravelRashKid]

Here's one for the panel...

Pillion hands on the tank seems to be working pretty well. Although more grip would be better, plus the hands can get tired after a while. So looking at various options for pillion grips on the tank.

Here're a couple that would almost work, except said pillions arms are too short for this position (or perhaps it's the position of the pillion seat vs the tank - let's go with that).
http://www.duo-drive.de/en/node/131
http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-news-product-news/the-vinxxgrip---motogp-bars-for-your-pillion/5694.html

Again this one is too far from the pillion seat.
http://thekneeslider.com/images/tankgrip.jpg

So now considering something custom made, and wondering about methods to fasten to the tank.
Options may be:
Magnets. Don't know that we want to trust a life on magnets.
Glue or epoxy. Potentially.
Strapping harness. Could be challenging to find someone to design and make.
Welding. Probably involving putting argon into the tank, and a new paint job. Strongest and safest option?

Any thoughts on moulding or fixing?

[Dobbin]

Thanks for all the advice in this thread.

I plan to have a pillion for the first time next weekend. It's the pink ribbon ride, so we won't be going fast or far. Unfortunately, he's as big as I am so I'm expecting quite a bit of difference in the bike's performance.

I have big panniers, so I plan to take them off for the ride to make getting on and off easier.

[Gremlin]

Dobbin, I suggest you get out with him on the Saturday before the ride, to get some practise. Don't want to be learning in amongst 2-300 bikes.

[Dobbin]

Dobbin, I suggest you get out with him on the Saturday before the ride, to get some practise. Don't want to be learning in amongst 2-300 bikes.

Thanks, I will do so if weather permits. He's coming down from up north for the event so I don't get a chance to practice earlier, and I don't have a spare helmet to practice with someone else.

[pritch]

Here's one for the panel...

Pillion hands on the tank seems to be working pretty well. Although more grip would be better, plus the hands can get tired after a while. So looking at various options for pillion grips on the tank.



Stomp Grip could assist purchase on the tank under braking. It is probably available locally as I see it on bikes quite often. I use the alternative TechSpec - just my preference.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VjReAPzBNE

(And no, I don't ride in shorts...)

[Juniper]

Stomp Grip could assist purchase on the tank under braking. It is probably available locally as I see it on bikes quite often. I use the alternative TechSpec - just my preference.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VjReAPzBNE

(And no, I don't ride in shorts...)

I like that idea..... at $50 though someone did put in the comments below it that skateboard stuff could work.

The other thing we were thinking of (thanks Angel) is a harness style thing around the tank that would have handles..... thoughts?

[Maha]

I like that idea..... at $50 though someone did put in the comments below it that skateboard stuff could work.

The other thing we were thinking of (thanks Angel) is a harness style thing around the tank that would have handles..... thoughts?

Velcro pads attached to the hip area of the riders and the inside of the for the pillions knees ... Its just a bit of a hassle getting off the bike but that's no biggy...thank me later.

[Juniper]

Velcro pads attached to the hip area of the riders and the inside of the for the pillions knees ... Its just a bit of a hassle getting off the bike but that's no biggy...thank me later.

Attaching to the rider is fine, its attaching to the bike so dont get in the way of rider that im after...

[Paul in NZ]

We use the Oxford pillion grip belt on the Sprint... Vicki says it really makes a difference. I just assumed it was a positive one...

http://www.cycletreads.co.nz/products/595-pillion_accessories/4237-oxford_rider_grips.aspx

Looks a bit ghey while you are wearing it .... Only riders firmly in control of their man image should attempt it...

[Juniper]

We use the Oxford pillion grip belt on the Sprint... Vicki says it really makes a difference. I just assumed it was a positive one...

http://www.cycletreads.co.nz/products/595-pillion_accessories/4237-oxford_rider_grips.aspx

Looks a bit ghey while you are wearing it .... Only riders firmly in control of their man image should attempt it...

Haha!!

Yeah we're not too keen on that whole holding the hips or waist thing.

[Paul in NZ]

Haha!!

Yeah we're not too keen on that whole holding the hips or waist thing.

Why not - they work amazingly well and I can't feel anything while shes holding on... Its a lot better than her swaying back and forward etc. We tried them when Vicki developed carpal tunnel and they work so well they stayed.

Had a few funny comments at cafes....

[Juniper]

Why not - they work amazingly well and I can't feel anything while shes holding on... Its a lot better than her swaying back and forward etc. We tried them when Vicki developed carpal tunnel and they work so well they stayed.

Had a few funny comments at cafes....

Oh I don't sway. I use my thighs/knees to hold on and hands on legs. You can feel if he's about to change gear or brake by the tensing or just movements in legs. Then when were having fun hands go onto the tank so gives him more room to move and any stops and go's don't end up with his bits saying hello to the tank lol.

For me its all about the rider and letting them ride their style help not hinder.

[Maha]

Thanks for all the advice in this thread.

I plan to have a pillion for the first time next weekend. It's the pink ribbon ride, so we won't be going fast or far. Unfortunately, he's as big as I am so I'm expecting quite a bit of difference in the bike's performance.

I have big panniers, so I plan to take them off for the ride to make getting on and off easier.

The panniers do hinder the mount/dismount of a pillion (height dependant) on the GSXFA but in saying that, having almost 100 Ltrs of cupboard space is a blessing at times.

[Dobbin]

The panniers do hinder the mount/dismount of a pillion (height dependant) on the GSXFA but in saying that, having almost 100 Ltrs of cupboard space is a blessing at times.

Yes, I love the panniers. They even take my full-face helmet. But they won't be necessary for this ride.

[GravelRashKid]

While taking a beautiful corner 2-up last night, my foot scraped even though it was tucked in hard against the bike (exhaust).
This scared the bejesus out of me because:
a) I'm not historically a foot scraper on this bike (97 Katana, perhaps 10 scrapes in 13 years),
b) I often corner a lot deeper than this 1-up so wasn't prepared for the possibility of a scrape, and
c) it was somewhat disconcerting that I couldn't tuck my foot any further out of the way.

The guy from Motorcycle Doctors tells me the front and rear suspension is suitable for 2-up.
Is it worth getting this checked and properly set up? Who would you suggest in Auckland?

I'm also looking at carving away some of the meat from the soles of my boots.
I'm not aiming to scrape the pegs 2-up, but one would have thought the peg should touch before the boot.

Any other ideas on this problem?

[Juniper]

While taking a beautiful corner 2-up last night, my foot scraped even though it was tucked in hard against the bike (exhaust).
This scared the bejesus out of me because:
a) I'm not historically a foot scraper on this bike (97 Katana, perhaps 10 scrapes in 13 years),
b) I often corner a lot deeper than this 1-up so wasn't prepared for the possibility of a scrape, and
c) it was somewhat disconcerting that I couldn't tuck my foot any further out of the way.

The guy from Motorcycle Doctors tells me the front and rear suspension is suitable for 2-up, although he wasn't very technical about this - he gave the rear a bounce.
Is it worth getting this checked and properly set up? Who would you suggest in Auckland?

I'm also looking at carving away some of the meat from the soles of my boots.
I'm not aiming to scrape the pegs 2-up, but one would have thought the peg should touch before the boot.

Any other ideas on this problem?

And I think someone would rather not be punched in the arm too (once was safe to do so) :angry2:

[Maha]

While taking a beautiful corner 2-up last night, my foot scraped even though it was tucked in hard against the bike (exhaust).
This scared the bejesus out of me because:
a) I'm not historically a foot scraper on this bike (97 Katana, perhaps 10 scrapes in 13 years),
b) I often corner a lot deeper than this 1-up so wasn't prepared for the possibility of a scrape, and
c) it was somewhat disconcerting that I couldn't tuck my foot any further out of the way.

The guy from Motorcycle Doctors tells me the front and rear suspension is suitable for 2-up, although he wasn't very technical about this - he gave the rear a bounce.
Is it worth getting this checked and properly set up? Who would you suggest in Auckland?

I'm also looking at carving away some of the meat from the soles of my boots.
I'm not aiming to scrape the pegs 2-up, but one would have thought the peg should touch before the boot.

Any other ideas on this problem?

Foot wont touch down if your ride on the toe on the peg, only probable when you're on your heal. You really should tweak the suspension when adding that extra weight.

[GravelRashKid]

Foot wont touch down if your ride on the toe on the peg, only probable when you're on your heal. You really should tweak the suspension when adding that extra weight.

Ahh, good thinking. I normally ride with the peg about mid-foot, which is in position for shifting up on the left and the right foot sits under the brake pedal. I'll have a try at always moving the foot back to the ball or the toe when not shifting or braking.
And yes, I'll make the front and rear suspension one setting stiffer from whatever it is.

[Juniper]

Foot wont touch down if your ride on the toe on the peg, only probable when you're on your heal. You really should tweak the suspension when adding that extra weight.

:gob: Are you calling me fat?!?! :p

[Gremlin]

Ahh, good thinking. I normally ride with the peg about mid-foot, which is in position for shifting up on the left and the right foot sits under the brake pedal. I'll have a try at always moving the foot back to the ball or the toe when not shifting or braking.
And yes, I'll make the front and rear suspension one setting stiffer from whatever it is.
As Maha said, think about the position of your foot. Seen plenty of people say oooh, I got my boot down, but it's dangling from the peg... more likely to get it tucked under the peg if they're not careful.

It also depends on how smooth you are through the corner and how smooth the corner is. Throw the bike around and the corner is a little bumpy, and you're going to load the suspension more. Smooth corner and you're smooth, less taxing on the suspension. One setting may also not be enough. As a rough guide, you're looking to adjust preload, and have the bike's rear about the same height as it would be with only you on it. Unlikely on stock suspension (depending on weights) to get the full adjustment required, but it's certainly better than not doing anything at all.

[GravelRashKid]

Unlikely on stock suspension (depending on weights) to get the full adjustment required, but it's certainly better than not doing anything at all.
Thanks gents. What's the downside of setting the preload too stiff (such as leaving it stiff when riding 1-up)? Is this only for comfort (meh), or does affect how well the bike stays on the road?

[Gremlin]

Thanks gents. What's the downside of setting the preload too stiff (such as leaving it stiff when riding 1-up)? Is this only for comfort (meh), or does affect how well the bike stays on the road?
Well, think of the opposite of having it soft (ie, great for 1up, and bad for 2up). The bike would be set up too stiff for the load on board and not be able to utilise the suspension as much.

[Maha]

Ahh, good thinking. I normally ride with the peg about mid-foot, which is in position for shifting up on the left and the right foot sits under the brake pedal. I'll have a try at always moving the foot back to the ball or the toe when not shifting or braking.
And yes, I'll make the front and rear suspension one setting stiffer from whatever it is.

I shift my foot as a matter habit, not that I would ever get over far enough to toe the ground (hard cornering is sooooo 2007) though it has happened once or twice.

:gob: Are you calling me fat?!?! :p

No no no no no, that would mean no more Lemoncello for me :(

[Juniper]

I shift my foot as a matter habit, not that I would ever get over far enough to toe the ground (hard cornering is sooooo 2007) though it has happened once or twice.


No no no no no, that would mean no more Lemoncello for me :(

Please donate a Vodka :weep: just 1, I'll go broke otherwise!!

[GravelRashKid]

I shift my foot as a matter habit
That's a good habit I'll be developing from now on.

Another habit that would be great to develop, is not tensing up on those "oh crap" moments. As said tensing generally results in the "oh crap" moment becoming an "OH CRAP" moment.
I'm guessing the answer here is just putting in more hours on the road (and not being a pussy fair-weather-rider)

[Maha]

That's a good habit I'll be developing from now on.

Another habit that would be great to develop, is not tensing up on those "oh crap" moments. As said tensing generally results in the "oh crap" moment becoming an "OH CRAP" moment.
I'm guessing the answer here is just putting in more hours on the road (and not being a pussy fair-weather-rider)

I once had a front wheel wash (under slight braking) with Anne on the back, I just let everything go and let the bike do it's thing, braking even hard (the instinctive thing to do) would have resulted in a few scratches.
Learning not to panic and make the right decision is done in less than a second, increased heart rate closely follows, but by then the crisis is normally over.

[nzspokes]

Well, think of the opposite of having it soft (ie, great for 1up, and bad for 2up). The bike would be set up too stiff for the load on board and not be able to utilise the suspension as much.

To be fair I doubt many bikes of that age would be sprung to suit 2 up riding. All of my bikes have barely coped with just me being the weight of one and a half people. Ive re-sprung the Bandit and the Hornet, my 400 had a nifty air shock that I just put more pressure in.

I lift up on to the balls of my feet when leaned. My Hornet was a shocker for dragging before I did the springs as when it loaded up in the turn the whole bike dipped. Bandit did a bit to but higher rate springs and a rear shock that worked solved that.

[mossy1200]

Simplify and have no friends. No passenger required.

[Gremlin]

To be fair I doubt many bikes of that age would be sprung to suit 2 up riding.
Many new-ish bikes wouldn't cope properly 2up either. Hornet 900 suspension was from the budget bin and not that great for even 1up riding. As you found, it had a tendancy to drag pegs... don't do that any more after the rear shock was replaced.

[GravelRashKid]

It's quite a different feel to have the ball of the foot on the pegs. My centre of gravity is a fraction higher.
Kind of feels like I'm slightly more independant of the bike too. It's a little better if I clamp my ankles into the bike. It's using the leg muscles in a slightly different way than I have over the last 20 years riding.
The boots grip the peg, so I need to lift the foot as it won't slide.

More time in the saddle required to gain my smoothness back.

How would you establish if the rear shocks need replacing for 2up, and how much might that cost?

[Gremlin]

How would you establish if the rear shocks need replacing for 2up, and how much might that cost?
Technically, suspension should be serviced at 40-50k on the outside. Exact schedules depend on the gear, how it feels etc. I have Ohlins, and the service interval is 30k.

Cost? The world is your ocean, from having the current suspension serviced and tweaked (if possible), through to replacing the entire unit (and that ranges from cheap stuff through to expensive). Sort of up to you, your riding style/demand, budget, plus what the bike itself is worth. Cheapest is either servicing the existing or if another model's shock suits your bike, that was better OEM (may still need servicing). Complete replacement will have a lot of options, Hagon, WP, and probably the top end being Ohlins.

I wouldn't have thought you would want to spend too much (kinda like overcapitalising on a house) yet in my mind at least, I demand high performance from my suspension, so I spend the dollars. Depends how much you pillion, how bad it currently is etc. A lot of things to consider, and if you want the advice of KB, best to start a separate thread in the suitable sub-forum. Then you also need to think about whether the bike is a keeper or a stepping stone to something else (that could be more suitable for a pillion already).

[russd7]

Thanks gents. What's the downside of setting the preload too stiff (such as leaving it stiff when riding 1-up)? Is this only for comfort (meh), or does affect how well the bike stays on the road?

when i bought the zzr new it was set up for an 80kg rider, first trip out of the shop was to the glenorchy rally fully loaded and two up, handled like a dog, took it back and told shop it was terrible and give me my old zzr back, instead we stripped the front and put heavier springs and oil in (under warranty from kawasaki nz) and tightened up the rear, man what a difference, i had a slightly smaller wife and i was a portly 120kgs back in those days so tho it was harder when riding solo it was not to bad, since then have changed wives and not bikes with the new wife being taller and heavier so had to tighten the rear up some more, got it handling sweet two up which was fine as most of the riding i was doin at that stage was two up, then i lost 20 or so kg (anyone finding it please let me know) and started to ride solo a lot more again and thats when i found out about having the suspension to bloody hard, what a pig, damned near broke me back and couldn't keep up with a friend on his 998 in the twisties, next day the suspension got backed of and just ride slower with the wife on the back now.
not easy to adjust the suspension on the zzr as i need to take back wheel out so just found a compromise:2thumbsup

[Tazz]

That's a good habit I'll be developing from now on.

Another habit that would be great to develop, is not tensing up on those "oh crap" moments. As said tensing generally results in the "oh crap" moment becoming an "OH CRAP" moment.
I'm guessing the answer here is just putting in more hours on the road (and not being a pussy fair-weather-rider)

At speed on the road more often than not it will be better to tense and make small adjustments than to have a knee jerk reaction and give things a good yank or blast.

Freezing completely is not ideal if that is what you're doing though =P

The stiffer suspension without the extra weight isn't great for your bike (or your body) as the forces are not being absorbed by the shock and are being transferred to the mounts/your back instead. You'll probably just flog out the bushes on your shocks a lot quicker to begin with however?
I think you could find your bike bouncing/skipping a bit in a corner if you hit a nasty bump that shouldn't be there depending on how extreme you have things set too.

Also putting the power down you might find the back kicking out more as the bike wouldn't 'squat' down as much to absorb some of the kick and shift more weight to the rear (could be a bitch in the wet)

I'd take all this with a grain of salt though as it fully depends on your setup, and I am still a noob (as you can tell with my lack of technical vocabulary haha)

[GravelRashKid]

As Maha said, think about the position of your foot. Seen plenty of people say oooh, I got my boot down, but it's dangling from the peg... more likely to get it tucked under the peg if they're not careful.

Well it didn't take as long as I thought to get used to a new foot position. After one ride to Taupo (all very sexy backroads!), I seem to have found a better riding groove than ever.
More weight on the pegs and less on the seat, the lower centre of gravity feels more stable, yet gives more freedom to drop a knee or hang off (out of fun not necessity). It feels natural to push the old girl harder than previously.
No scraping anything, although the tyres started sliding when they got too warm (learned I need to tune tyre pressure for the extra heat - thanks Mark)
Now really keen for track open days, so I can ride harder than 80% :woohoo:

My new pillion tank handle turns up next week, so be interesting to see how all this affects 2-up riding.

[Juniper]

Well it didn't take as long as I thought to get used to a new foot position. After one ride to Taupo (all very sexy backroads!), I seem to have found a better riding groove than ever.
More weight on the pegs and less on the seat, the lower centre of gravity feels more stable, yet gives more freedom to drop a knee or hang off (out of fun not necessity). It feels natural to push the old girl harder than previously.
No scraping anything, although the tyres started sliding when they got too warm (learned I need to tune tyre pressure for the extra heat - thanks Mark)
Now really keen for track open days, so I can ride harder than 80% :woohoo:

My new pillion tank handle turns up next week, so be interesting to see how all this affects 2-up riding.

I'm kinda chuffed that I'm learning these good habits now rather than in 20 years. :yes:

Looking forward to the new accessory!!!

[Flip]

I usually run a little more air in the rear shocks. Other than that the bike handles just as bad 2 up as 1 up. Her on the back just sits there like a (small) sack of spuds. I have practiced emergency stopping 2 up it actually doesent make that much difference also. I guess her 55 kg on the back of the 350 kg Harley and my 95 kg is not enough to change the balance much.

This was taken at an advanced MC skills course at Ruapuna race track.

288732

[GravelRashKid]

This was taken at an advanced MC skills course at Ruapuna race track.

Advanced MC skills course 2-up... hmm
NASS is really good, but a course would be awesome!

[Flip]

Her on the back and I have worn out 2 bikes together. When I booked the course I asked if I could do some of it 2 up, Carol said no prob so we did it 2 up.

It was a really good thing to do because we did discover that my big old touring bike is not affected by a pillion much at all and that when I brake hard she is going to crash into me no matter what she does. Also that the HD can stop almost as fast as any other bike. (My road king has dual front brembo rotors.)

It was cool to be on the track with Busa's and other fast jap bikes and not make a dick of myself.

[nzspokes]

I usually run a little more air in the rear shocks. Other than that the bike handles just as bad 2 up as 1 up. Her on the back just sits there like a (small) sack of spuds. I have practiced emergency stopping 2 up it actually doesent make that much difference also. I guess her 55 kg on the back of the 350 kg Harley and my 95 kg is not enough to change the balance much.

This was taken at an advanced MC skills course at Ruapuna race track.



Is that zip together or a 1 piece denim suit?

[Flip]

Is that zip together or a 1 piece denim suit?

The jacket had a belt loop inside at the back and you hold the thing together with a belt.

[acorn]

So I'm not a rider - in fact haven't been on a bike in 20 years, but planning on being the pillion with an experienced rider. I'd be interested to hear some thoughts and tips - I read the other threads but they seem to be more for people who are already riders, or who are pillioning rather than being the novice on the back..
thanks

[phill-k]

So I'm not a rider - in fact haven't been on a bike in 20 years, but planning on being the pillion with an experienced rider. I'd be interested to hear some thoughts and tips - I read the other threads but they seem to be more for people who are already riders, or who are pillioning rather than being the novice on the back..
thanks

Always start a ride with a large glass of wine:cool: actually if you search youtube the NSW transport authority have a series of videos including one on pillion passengers (you could find the link via ProRiders facebook page.)

[Juniper]

So I'm not a rider - in fact haven't been on a bike in 20 years, but planning on being the pillion with an experienced rider. I'd be interested to hear some thoughts and tips - I read the other threads but they seem to be more for people who are already riders, or who are pillioning rather than being the novice on the back..
thanks

From pillion to pillion: do the sack of potatos and lean with your rider ie not the other way when he turns.
If he's an experienced rider he'll tell you what to do. Where he (or she) wants your hands etc. make sure they tell you what their signals are, like how to tell them that their going too fast or you want them to stop.

If you need to reposition yourself don't do it on corners. And try not to bang helmets, it hurts both of you.

Does that make sense?

Remember to relax and have fun. Being pillion is great!!

[GravelRashKid]

From pillion to pillion: do the sack of potatos and lean with your rider ie not the other way when he turns.
If he's an experienced rider he'll tell you what to do. Where he (or she) wants your hands etc. make sure they tell you what their signals are, like how to tell them that their going too fast or you want them to stop.

If you need to reposition yourself don't do it on corners. And try not to bang helmets, it hurts both of you.

Does that make sense?

Remember to relax and have fun. Being pillion is great!!

Always move your head slightly to the inside of the rider on a corner (unless there's a good reason not to :). It's a smooth subtle movement. Normally only just enough to look with one eye past your rider's helmet.

To reduce the wind thrashing both your helmet and your rider's helmet (Yes if the pillion is feeling it, the rider is also feeling it), experiment with keeping your helmet close and to the side, 1 to 3 inches from theirs (at about 45 degrees?).

The one hand position to avoid is that ridiculous "pillion" grab bar (bitch-bar) behind you. If your rider accelerates slightly too enthusiastically, you will be warming your feet under their armpits - take it from one who knows, this is not the adrenalin buzz you are looking for.

Agreed that an experienced rider will tell you where to place your hands. Some options for both of your consideration.
If gripping the rider, then keep your hands low (e.g. hip bones are one option). If your hands, or torso, are pushing on the rider's upper body when braking or cornering, this is a lot of load through the rider's hands - which is not good for controlling the bike.
If you can easily reach the tank, then play with that option, again especially when braking.

Getting on and off the bike, wait for the rider to signal you that he/she is ready (they will need both feet planted on the ground). Then give them a signal that you are settled on the back and ready to roll.

Being a pillion who isn't a rider can be advantageous. If a pillion has developed their own riding style, it can affect the lines etc.

[Maha]

A few times (not of late though) Anne used start the corner before I did (only by a second or two) which would cause the bike to act before I wanted it to. I guess that came about because of two points ...
1) being a rider herself and would normally tip in before I would on any given corner.
2) looking to the left/right and in turn, causing the effect of point 1.

Only happened a couple of times, until I pointed it out.

[Juniper]

Well the pillion handle has arrived. Now lets hope he has a bike to put it on!!!! :(

[GravelRashKid]

Well the pillion handle has arrived. Now lets hope he has a bike to put it on!!!! :(

Pillion handle attached and thoroughly tested!!

As for Tigger. The bike shop only replaced a fouled plug, which did sfa for her health. She did well enough in the weekend though, and we hope a carb strip will sort her out.

Enhanced with the tank mounted pillion handle, we are getting our groove as a pillion pair, especially through Mangamuka Gorge a few times in the last couple of days!
On Sunday morning, Tigger still had chicken strips front and rear...

[GravelRashKid]

Nothing like a pillion to ruin a good ride.


You just need to find the right pillion....


No such thing. It's just ballast that turns a motorcycle into an ill-handling wheelbarrow.

LOL, yes there is such thing as the right pillion!
Sure my riding position and style has changed recently. However I (we) are currently riding my bike a lot better 2-up than I had previously ridden solo over my 20 year riding career.

[Juniper]

LOL, yes there is such thing as the right pillion!
Sure my riding position and style has changed recently. However I (we) are currently riding my bike a lot better 2-up than I had previously ridden solo over my 20 year riding career.

I think the best thing I've heard over the last wee while is "I don't know how you guys even have any chicken strips left!"

That was after the experienced rider caught up with us.

It takes practice and communication. And lots of it.

[GravelRashKid]

Update on our 2-up riding progress:
As a solo rider, I'm learning new concepts and developing new skills (many of which I probably should have established 20 years ago). My solo riding is getting smoother and quicker. Cornering harder and faster, yet ending up with more in reserve than previously.

In spite of this, or perhaps partly because of this, as a 2-up unit we occasionally are cornering harder, faster and smoother than I ever have solo riding. As I've said in another thread (sorry to those who read both) I imagine it comes down to innate and intuitive skill (and a lot of hard work) from Juniper as a pillion. We both have pretty sore muscles at the end of a good stretch of road!

I've been looking around, although not found an opportunity for advanced 2-up training. Something equivalent to ART, on a track 2-up, would be great. I can't find any opportunity for us to be 2-up on a track, is there anything in NZ?
Perhaps we just need an instructor to follow us, maybe film us, and critique us.
We are doing pretty well, although can always become smoother and better. Any thoughts out there?

[rustyblade]

done thousands of k's pillioning through all weathers (carrying, not being.)

just found it's easiest to take it easy until they start to get less scared, tell them to go slow and watch what I'm doing.


When you've got someones life literally in your hands, it's not the time to misbehave.
I'm always VERY smooth and give my pillion a quick briefing before heading off:

hold on tight (don't break my ribs)
tell them my bike accelerates faster than they think it will, even slowly.
Move with me (don't go wild now)
if you want to stop, tap me twice on the back or side
if you want to slow down, tap once
If i hold my hand out and clench it, hold the hell on, I'm gonna take no prisoners.
If I tap your leg - I'm just checking you're still on the back.

Also I sit pretty tall on my 'blade so the brave soul on the back doesn't get blown off.

[GravelRashKid]

A brave soul indeed, up on the back of a fireblade.
Nice set of hand signals. I like the clenched hand. I tend to tap her leg, to wake her up for this next set of corners.
We also use shoulder taps, one tap - turn up ahead or change lanes, two taps - turn here, three taps - turn around fool it was back there.
She also employs the kidney punch, although I generally know when I've made an error, and don't really need that reinforced lol.

[cowboyz]

I have done a lot of pillioning and the only.. oh I fucked this up moment was getting enthuastic in a set of 55 chasing a lad and with my pegs on the ground I got a swift slap across the back of my helmet.. dam near shit myself

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

[Juniper]

A brave soul indeed, up on the back of a fireblade.
Nice set of hand signals. I like the clenched hand. I tend to tap her leg, to wake her up for this next set of corners.
We also use shoulder taps, one tap - turn up ahead or change lanes, two taps - turn here, three taps - turn around fool it was back there.
She also employs the kidney punch, although I generally know when I've made an error, and don't really need that reinforced lol.

Uh sorry wht? I fell asleep lol.

I've been thinking about this lately. I think I make it "better" by going with the flow. Use your body to go with the flow of the forces. It helps with not falling off the back when going off at the lights or knocking helmets.
If you just sit like a sack of potatoes you get a lot of jerking around. Think fluid like dancing with a dancing partner.

[george formby]

Uh sorry wht? I fell asleep lol.

I've been thinking about this lately. I think I make it "better" by going with the flow. Use your body to go with the flow of the forces. It helps with not falling off the back when going off at the lights or knocking helmets.
If you just sit like a sack of potatoes you get a lot of jerking around. Think fluid like dancing with a dancing partner.


When I got my G/F on the back of me bike she was tense, expecting immature heroics & sphincter cramp. Less like a sack of spuds & more like a gyro going in the opposite direction to the corner.
As has been stated smooth, considerate, riding & plenty of talking at each stop relaxed her no end. Prior to getting her own bike it had reached the point where I only noticed her when braking, if I had misjudged a corner slightly or had to brake a little harder due to a hazard. She learned to look ahead & anticipate what was going to happen next, right hand corner, look right, left, look left, need to slow down, lean back etc. We never used signals, she knew an overtake was coming up by the situation & my behaviour (that's a lean forward..). She just relaxed & went with the flow.

Oooooooooh! Knocking hemlets rips my nightie no end.

Any hoo, like yourselves I was no slower two up than on my own, regardless of road conditions. I think that riding more considerately & smoother with a pillion emphasises good technique & results in a surprisingly quick average pace. The bikes don't really care so it must be rider & pillion input.

[Drew]

Has it been mentioned, riders with pillion shouldn't use the clutch on up shifts? Maybe 1st to 2nd the clutch should be used, but the rest of the time it's smoother not to...unless you're retarded, in which case you should not be carrying a passenger on a bike.

[BMWST?]

Has it been mentioned, riders with pillion shouldn't use the clutch on up shifts? Maybe 1st to 2nd the clutch should be used, but the rest of the time it's smoother not to...unless you're retarded, in which case you should not be carrying a passenger on a bike.

Unless you re tarded using the clutch on any shift on a motorbike should be smooth as

[george formby]

Has it been mentioned, riders with pillion shouldn't use the clutch on up shifts? Maybe 1st to 2nd the clutch should be used, but the rest of the time it's smoother not to...unless you're retarded, in which case you should not be carrying a passenger on a bike.

I'm retarded. I use the clutch. Funnily enough, now that my G/F has her own wheels she struggles to figure out how I can change up with no jerkiness, just a change of engine note & constant acceleration. Problem is, I can't explain it.

Any hoo, Drew. Please educate me, in all seriousness. A day I don't learn something is not a good day.

[GravelRashKid]

it had reached the point where I only noticed her when braking, if I had misjudged a corner slightly or had to brake a little harder due to a hazard.

Did you ever get the nudge in your upper back meaning "come on, let's play!"?

[george formby]

Did you ever get the nudge in your upper back meaning "come on, let's play!"?


First time we went over the Mangamukas I was politely & with a "come hither" smile, told to do it again but faster. Yeah, pace was never a problem in the end. Well, lack of perhaps. Rides were measured by lean angle x velocity + acceleration on exit = :banana::lol: She still badgers me for a lift somewhere on the bike.

You get my Gymkhana links? T'is the mutts nuts for handling skills.

[Kickaha]

Back in the good ole days we used to have a crate of piss resting on one leg on the way home from the pub or heading to the beach, leaning the wrong way for corners or putting the hand not holding the beer over the riders eyes, moving back as we took off from intersections so it'd lift the front

You can have lots of fun on the pillon seat, of course we may have had the odd off road excursion but no crashes

[george formby]

Back in the good ole days we used to have a crate of piss resting on one leg on the way home from the pub or heading to the beach, leaning the wrong way for corners or putting the hand not holding the beer over the riders eyes, moving back as we took off from intersections so it'd lift the front

You can have lots of fun on the pillon seat, of course we may have had the odd off road excursion but no crashes


:clap::clap: Ya bastard!!! Just made me spit good grog all over the key board. In a galaxy far, far away, many, many years ago I had an XT 350 with a mate on the back, back to back, he was holding a crate of Newcastle Brown Ale on the back rack at 2am bathed in the eerie red glow of me tail light, in the snow. Riding through woods, over cobbles & trails. Full tit.

Poor bugger was trying to stay on the bike & keep the beer in the crate over the bumps. Lost a few.... My drunken, yooful behavior still crops up after an ale or two. He managed to stay on during a minging wheelie, too, but seems to have forgotten.

Epic memories!

[Ocean1]

leaning the wrong way for corners

I once had a silly tart sit bolt upright half way round a corner, on the back of an XL500, with full knobblies at about 12psi.

I had the knee down, elbows, shoulder, hip, all down, with both ends drifting on the knobs. Fuck knows how we stayed upright.

[rustyblade]

I once had a silly tart sit bolt upright half way round a corner, on the back of an XL500, with full knobblies at about 12psi.

I had the knee down, elbows, shoulder, hip, all down, with both ends drifting on the knobs. Fuck knows how we stayed upright.

I hear ya! Some people haven't ever heard of physics.
although...
nothing beats the scream of terror from a girl when she realises she's about 2cm from the floor at "highway speed" :D

[BMWST?]

Did you ever get the nudge in your upper back meaning "come on, let's play!"?

I also liked the "nudge" in the back from brake application ;)

[george formby]

I also liked the "nudge" in the back from brake application ;)

Titties! Making real men leave their back protectors at home since ages ago.

Oh, I assume we bat for the same team.:shutup: