Rule change in BSB - do we effectively have the same rule?

[steveyb]

The MCRCB, the governing body of the MCE Insurance British Superbike Championship, have reacted speedily to prevent any repetition of the cause of the track contamination that contributed to the postponement of the second race of the opening round at Brands Hatch.

Then the circuit was left in a treacherous state by fluids dropped from machines that had crashed and which their riders remounted and continued during a race. That practice is now outlawed by a rule change introduced with immediate effect during the second round at Thruxton.

"The situation at Brands Hatch was the catalyst for the MCRCB and MSVR to review the situation - we have never been completely comfortable with the rule that was introduced back in 1996 as often riders have remounted with no apparent damage only to subsequently have a fluid leak, mechanical damage or, for instance as Tommy Hill disastrously discovered in 2010 at Oulton Park, no brakes," explained Series Director Stuart Higgs.

Now, a rule change has been introduced by the MCRCB which bans the practice of picking up a crashed machine and continuing during practice or races.

The official wording is: "Riders who fall from their machine are not permitted to continue in the practice session or race until passed fit by a Medical Officer (note: at BSB events there are Medical Officers on each corner around the circuit) and the machine re-inspected and cleared by Technical Control. Any infringement of this rule will result in the rider being disqualified from the remainder of the practice session or race and may result in further penalties.

"In the event of a practice or race being interrupted by a red flag, any crashed machines will be recovered and taken to Technical Control and released to the Team for repair. Once the repaired machine has been re-inspected and cleared by a Technical Officer a rider may continue in the restarted practice or race. In the second part of an interrupted race this applies to riders classified in the results of the first part."

MSVR consulted with the riders and Superbike elite teams, issuing by e-mail and publishing to them a document detailing the proposed rule change and asking for comments.

"Superbike team managers have expressed support and we had no negative responses to our e-mail from anyone else," explained Higgs. "There are some 250 motorcycle road race meetings held in the UK each year and all but 12 BSB and 3 World Championship events have a no re-start rule. We understand the one bike rule has put riders under severe pressure to get their bike back at any cost but this has left our championship and their safety quite vulnerable. The one bike rule will remain in the current climate - its success shows in maintaining the grid numbers and this has been replicated in the Moto2, Moto3, Supersport and Superbike World Championships and it is proposed for the MotoGP class in 2013."

There will be no "discretionary situations" although notice has been taken of the points raised by team managers as to the importance of the first 50 minutes period of BSB free practice at each round in terms of setting up machines.

An additional comment to the new rule explains: "If five minutes before the 50% point of the duration of the BSB FP1 session there are machines that require recovering via the circuit the Race Director will advise that he will interrupt the session by displaying the chequered flag at the 50% point. The machines will then be recovered to Technical Control and the session restarted as soon as possible, lost time will not be added to the total session duration."


Does our current rule indicating that any bike that has been crashed must be presented for safety inspection (scruitineering) before returning the the circuit, effectively mean the same thing? That if you crash in a practice or race session you and your bike really must be checked out before you can continue??????

Comments?

[slowpoke]

It should do...but it doesn't seem to be enforced.

[Billy]

Yes we do,

It is clearly stated in the NZSBK supp regs and in the rulebook "ALL machines crashed during practice or racing will be delivered to the designated parc ferme for examination by officials including the riding gear"

However it is our intention to clarify this further for next years series and we are looking at introducing a rule as used internationally that makes it compulsory to have a bellypan or catch tray that holds a minimum of 3 litres to further reduce the risk of fluids leaking on to the track surface.

[Mental Trousers]

Yes we do,

It is clearly stated in the NZSBK supp regs and in the rulebook "ALL machines crashed during practice or racing will be delivered to the designated parc ferme for examination by officials including the riding gear"

However it is our intention to clarify this further for next years series and we are looking at introducing a rule as used internationally that makes it compulsory to have a bellypan or catch tray that holds a minimum of 3 litres to further reduce the risk of fluids leaking on to the track surface.

Got my support (not that I'm anyone of importance) for both those.

After lunching an engine at Paeroa and finding half a conrod in the belly pan (it's a fully enclosed one) I'm really, really happy to have had it fitted. It was a total engine failure that would've left 4 litres of oil and assorted bits of engine on the circuit if I hadn't had that belly pan fitted. I'm certainly not going to be responsible for holding the entire day up when it's easy enough to get hold of and fit a fairing.

There's 2 other safety items (compulsory overseas but not even mentioned in NZ) that I'll be doing with my bike (picking up a replacement today :D ) and that's

fitting a sharks tooth
lever guard for the brake


I like having all of my fingers and toes as they are and I don't want to slam into the track like Deano did at Hampton Downs.

Lever guard (http://www.rizoma.com/universal/proguard-system/en)

Sharks tooth chain guard (http://www.gbracing.eu/KTM.111/Superduke-990R-2005---2012.118/CGA08-GBR-Universal-Lower-Chain-Guard.355.html?osCsid=7e30872f02189fc82084dcdd4b34 5cfa)

[jellywrestler]

Yes we do,

It is clearly stated in the NZSBK supp regs and in the rulebook "ALL machines crashed during practice or racing will be delivered to the designated parc ferme for examination by officials including the riding gear"

However it is our intention to clarify this further for next years series and we are looking at introducing a rule as used internationally that makes it compulsory to have a bellypan or catch tray that holds a minimum of 3 litres to further reduce the risk of fluids leaking on to the track surface.

Delivered?? here if it's rideable that seems the way to get it back to the pits???? even so a lot of the trailers the clubs use are bike trailers and can leak like shit too.
if a rules going to be made it needs to tidy up these loose areas methinks

[Kickaha]

Not sure why you would need this rule isn't it only sidecars that dump oil or have we been misinformed the whole time?

[Billy]

Delivered?? here if it's rideable that seems the way to get it back to the pits???? even so a lot of the trailers the clubs use are bike trailers and can leak like shit too.
if a rules going to be made it needs to tidy up these loose areas methinks

And thats why we intend to clarify it further.

[CHOPPA]

Yes we do,

It is clearly stated in the NZSBK supp regs and in the rulebook "ALL machines crashed during practice or racing will be delivered to the designated parc ferme for examination by officials including the riding gear"

However it is our intention to clarify this further for next years series and we are looking at introducing a rule as used internationally that makes it compulsory to have a bellypan or catch tray that holds a minimum of 3 litres to further reduce the risk of fluids leaking on to the track surface.

I like the idea of the bellypan. They inforce this hard in ozzy. Your simply not allowed on track and they inspect every bike every time.

The crash thing needs to be looked at as well. I noted in the 125 class Seth crashed at HDs and continued in the same race. Dan Mettam tried to continue in the same race but couldnt as his bike had to be scruitineered.

The other rule that needs some attention is the bloody red flag rule! Whats the deal with riders getting points when they cause a red flag! If you have crashed, even if it wasnt your fault and the red flag comes out you shouldnt be allowed to restart and you should be excluded from the results

[quickbuck]

The crash thing needs to be looked at as well. I noted in the 125 class Seth crashed at HDs and continued in the same race. Dan Mettam tried to continue in the same race but couldnt as his bike had to be scruitineered.



Just to chlarify there Choppa, you are talking about Dans crash at Taupo?
Two different clubs, and one of them applied the rules correctly.....

If it is the same meeting/Club, then they are still bad, as it is applying the rules inconsistantly!

[quickbuck]

The crash thing needs to be looked at as well. I noted in the 125 class Seth crashed at HDs and continued in the same race. Dan Mettam tried to continue in the same race but couldnt as his bike had to be scruitineered.



Just to chlarify there Choppa, you are talking about Dans crash at Taupo?
Two different clubs, and one of them applied the rules correctly.....

If it is the same meeting/Club, then they are still bad, as it is applying the rules inconsistantly!



The other rule that needs some attention is the bloody red flag rule! Whats the deal with riders getting points when they cause a red flag! If you have crashed, even if it wasnt your fault and the red flag comes out you shouldnt be allowed to restart and you should be excluded from the results .

Yup... I have been miffed (hard done by) by this myself...

[steveyb]

The two different crashes were in quite different scenarios.
In crash 1 it was the middle of the race, but the rider hopped up quickly (and how the fuck he did that is beyond me 'cos for a change I actually saw the whole thing and he went waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay up in the air. He must be Mr Rubber Man) and carried on in the race. The race was not stopped and no one said anything to said rider.

In crash 2 it was also the middle of the race (duh, of course it was), the rider had stopped and not rejoined the race and was lying in a dangerous position, so the race was stopped. A few things then happened and he did not get his bike or himself re-checked and was excluded from the race on the start line.

Under the rules therefore, the rider in crash 1 probably should have: a) just walked away, b) returned directly to pit-lane for check and then carry on albeit then behind the pack, c) been black-flagged and removed from the race.

In crash 2 there were also some issues such as: a) letting the riders from the dummy grid go back on track while there was still a bike on track that no one knew if it was damaged and leaking or anything, b) not waiting the full time before letting the other bikes go so that the remaining rider could return to pitlane and be checked, therefore making the last rider think that he needed to stop on the start line (even though apparently he had been told otherwise). But that action by officials did not help the all round situation, which at the end of the day, was very unfortunate for all concerned. The manner in which the rider was excluded was also not great and could have been better dealt with by displaying a black flag prior to the start. But remember that this all happened and needed to be decided on in a matter of minutes and was actually quite a new or different ocurrence for most concerned.

But we have a culture of applauding riders who crash, then pick their bikes up and carry on in the race. Even in MotoGP riders do it if they can. But anyone who does is strictly speaking, breaking the rules and should either return directly to parc-ferme/tech check area (which by the way is NEVER defined at any meeting I have been to except AMCC NZSBK events and then it is not on pit-lane and is removed after morning tech checks are finished), or be black flagged from the remainder of the race.

The issue about riders involved in creating the red-flag incident I think can get very complicated. There are scenarios whereby riders who become involved due to anothers error or misfortune will be deemed to have been party to causing the race stoppage. Under the environment espoused above, those riders will also be refused rights to restart the re-run race. I think this is unfair and I can absolutely guarantee that any rider now suggesting that any rider(s) causing the red flag be excluded from any restart, if they were the innocent party, would start complaining to high heaven. I believe that if you can get back to the pit-lane, be repaired and rechecked within the 5 minute window (which by the way I am not sure is actually in any of our rules but is in MotoGP, the two get mixed up you know, you can see why can't you??) then you have all rights to re start regardless of your contribution to the race stoppage.

But, that then allows crashed bikes back onto the track to return to the pits. If we wish to create the environment such that the BSB ruling is creating, then the rules must state that any crashed bike must be removed from the circuit and not allowed to rejoin the race in any way and only returned to the pits at a time convienient to the organisers.

In addition, all red-flagged races are taken back one lap from the lap of the red-flag. Therefore by definition, the rider(s) causing the red flag were still in the race and have a finishing position because under that logic the red-flag lap never actually occurred as far as race results are concerned. I do believe it to be unfair and illogical to then exclude all riders involved in the red-flag incident from the results. And again, the scenario of innocent parties is relevant. An innocent party will complain to high heaven if he/she is excluded when someone else caused the incident but that 'innocent' rider was part of the red-flag incident. And don't go on about the rider who caused it being the only one who will get excluded, because very often these situations are not black and white and one party argues the other caused it and vice versa. So it is problematic all round.

That's all I have to say 'bout that. You can see I have nothing else to do (which isn't strictly true).

[CHOPPA]

My argument to the fact that even innocent parties that are tied up in a red flag causing incident, is that if there wasnt a red flag and the race carried on as usual they would be out of the race anyway. Thats racing....

Racing is not rewarding someone that is stupid enough to lay on the track when they are not hurt. I have seen it done BTW

[Billy]

In crash 2 there were also some issues such as: a) letting the riders from the dummy grid go back on track while there was still a bike on track that no one knew if it was damaged and leaking or anything, b) not waiting the full time before letting the other bikes go so that the remaining rider could return to pitlane and be checked, therefore making the last rider think that he needed to stop on the start line (even though apparently he had been told otherwise). But that action by officials did not help the all round situation, which at the end of the day, was very unfortunate for all concerned. The manner in which the rider was excluded was also not great and could have been better dealt with by displaying a black flag prior to the start. But remember that this all happened and needed to be decided on in a matter of minutes and was actually quite a new or different ocurrence for most concerned.


What a load of poppycock Steve,FFS take the time to read your rulebook before going off halfcocked on the internet will ya.

a) race control and the marshalls had made radio contact,b)Waiting what full time ??the rules only state a maximum time limit,c) the rider failed to return to pitlane as required under a redflag in the gcr's,d)the rider failed too present his machine to officials that were waiting for him in parc ferme as stated in the gcr's and the supp regs for the series e)the rider elected too step off his machine on the grid with little regard for any fluids it may have leaked or for his fellow competitors f) the rider the proceeded to abuse the MNZ steward and other officials,But somehow it was mishandled by the officials ???????

[Maido]

scenario: Rider gets pushed wide and run off the track where he is on the grass, he (or she) pulls bike up and turns to get back on the track when front tucks at 5km/h no damage to bike of rider besides embarrasment. this is a crash. does this fit the 'ALL machines crashed during practice or racing will be delivered to the designated parc ferme for examination by officials including the riding gear" rule.
Also, I was taken out at HD, I remounted and got back on and finished the race (what a hero I am :brick: ). There was a few scratches on the bike, no "damage" as such (thanks to my trusty GB racing engine cover protectors brought from Kev at Race Supplies :yes:). I would have been pissed if I was cut from the rules. I think there is alot of grey area there that could go either way. Same with teh red flag rules. There are countless pro's and con's and different scenarios that have to be considered before a final rule can be made.

[jellywrestler]

no damage to bike of rider besides embarrasment. problem is how can you be sure this is the case? one can't hold the bike up and kick the tyres and wiggle a couple of extremities to check them too, on the side of the track very easily can one?
Not singling out you or anyone else either BTW

[steveyb]

What a load of poppycock Steve,FFS take the time to read your rulebook before going off halfcocked on the internet will ya.

a) race control and the marshalls had made radio contact,b)Waiting what full time ??the rules only state a maximum time limit,c) the rider failed to return to pitlane as required under a redflag in the gcr's,d)the rider failed too present his machine to officials that were waiting for him in parc ferme as stated in the gcr's and the supp regs for the series e)the rider elected too step off his machine on the grid with little regard for any fluids it may have leaked or for his fellow competitors f) the rider the proceeded to abuse the MNZ steward and other officials,But somehow it was mishandled by the officials ???????

a) I implied as much, that the rider (crash 2) had been told what to do.
b) I did say that I was not sure there was such a thing.
c) Yes, that's just what I said.
d) But did he know where said parc ferme was? Probably was told where.
e) Agreed, But, I only meant that the rider being presented with the steward in front of him on the grid like that might just have contributed to what happened, that's all. Maybe, and of course in hindsight, it could be dealt with in a different way that might avoid such an outcome.
f) I made no detailed comment about any of that and wish not to.
My only point was that maybe we can learn from it and deal with such things a bit differently and it might help, it might not help. But I did say that all this happend in minutes and decisions had to be taken, but there were things that could be done better. Isn't that the goal here? To learn? Fuck, if everytime a constructive suggestion is made that is then instantly rejected as blaming the officials then no one will say anything and we will regress. I think my observations were constructive.
Maybe if my post was too long it needed to be read a bit more clearly?

[CHOPPA]

Seems silly that if I was to crash I would have to have someone less qualified than myself and my team to check over a bike they have no knowledge on to tell me if it is safe :facepalm:

[CHOPPA]

As it stands at the moment, if someone crashes during a race and continues they are liable to be blagflagged or protested?

[jellywrestler]

Seems silly that if I was to crash I would have to have someone less qualified than myself and my team to check over a bike they have no knowledge on to tell me if it is safe :facepalm:


there's no way you can check your bike properly and hold it up out on the track at the same time, nobody can, simple as that.
that was the issue, said rider didn't return to the pits and let anyone check it over.

[jellywrestler]

e) Agreed, But, I only meant that the rider being presented with the steward in front of him on the grid like that might just have contributed to what happened, that's all.

I don't know many other sports in this world where self control on ones anger is more important than it is in motorcycle racing, the consequences are enormous if a competitor decides to push another around.
There is no room for spoilt brats anywhere in our sport, simple as that, if i was on the infeild I would have cut his helmet strap out straight away, and anyone elses that throws safety gear around like that.

[gixerracer]

What a load of poppycock Steve,FFS take the time to read your rulebook before going off halfcocked on the internet will ya.

a) race control and the marshalls had made radio contact,b)Waiting what full time ??the rules only state a maximum time limit,c) the rider failed to return to pitlane as required under a redflag in the gcr's,d)the rider failed too present his machine to officials that were waiting for him in parc ferme as stated in the gcr's and the supp regs for the series e)the rider elected too step off his machine on the grid with little regard for any fluids it may have leaked or for his fellow competitors f) the rider the proceeded to abuse the MNZ steward and other officials,But somehow it was mishandled by the officials ???????


Mr Horrabiilyess?
Why I agree with most of what you say I would like to know what is the protocol for when MNZ stewards abuse the riders as also happened at this meeting? I beleive there was a physical threat of violence suggested?

[Billy]

Mr Horrabiilyess?
Why I agree with most of what you say I would like to know what is the protocol for when MNZ stewards abuse the riders as also happened at this meeting? I beleive there was a physical threat of violence suggested?

Its the same rules for everybody,While it's way too late to lay a complaint for anything that took place at that meeting,It should be brought too the attention of MNZ at the earliest possible convenience and a complaint laid,That particular meeting would have been the ideal place as there were a number of board members including the President present.

[steveyb]

Mr Horrabiilyess?
Why I agree with most of what you say I would like to know what is the protocol for when MNZ stewards abuse the riders as also happened at this meeting? I beleive there was a physical threat of violence suggested?

My last comments on this, because I think it is important, but not that important:

As far as I could see, at the point of the exclusion the riders were under starters orders, or some such scenario. Do the rules allow for the steward, or anyone else, to jump onto the track at this point or any other point?

What words were actually used to effect the exclusion?

Agreed that the subsequent actions by the rider in question were not acceptable, but in slight defence; adrenaline was high, age was low, experience not so long etc etc. Perhaps being approached more directly and calmly and told that he had not followed instructions and would need to leave the race, or maybe he could have been directed to ride to the Parc Ferme to be checked and restarted from pit lane right then rather than being excluded. It is all hindsight of course.

As I said, it all happened very quickly and I am not blaming anyone but the rider for his actions, but maybe we can just learn from the situation for the future? I do think that a black flag held over the start grid would have been the most appropriate method to effect the exclusion.

[Billy]

As it stands at the moment, if someone crashes during a race and continues they are liable to be blagflagged or protested?

Correct and that will be made clearer in the rulechange that will pretty much copy word for word the BSB rule that has just been introduced.

The likely penalty for ignoring the ruling and remounting will be that the competitior will be blackflagged immediately and upon returning too pitlane will be excluded from the meeting.

[Billy]

My last comments on this, because I think it is important, but not that important:

As far as I could see, at the point of the exclusion the riders were under starters orders, or some such scenario. Do the rules allow for the steward, or anyone else, to jump onto the track at this point or any other point?

What words were actually used to effect the exclusion?

Agreed that the subsequent actions by the rider in question were not acceptable, but in slight defence; adrenaline was high, age was low, experience not so long etc etc. Perhaps being approached more directly and calmly and told that he had not followed instructions and would need to leave the race, or maybe he could have been directed to ride to the Parc Ferme to be checked and restarted from pit lane right then rather than being excluded. It is all hindsight of course.

As I said, it all happened very quickly and I am not blaming anyone but the rider for his actions, but maybe we can just learn from the situation for the future? I do think that a black flag held over the start grid would have been the most appropriate method to effect the exclusion.

Forget the excuses,

This competitor is in his 3rd season of competition and has attended the red bull rookies cup and EJC,If he hasn't bothered to get himself up to speed with the rules and supp regs then the system and his mentors have failed him !!!!

Put simply,Had he re entered pitlane and conformed,He would today be NZ 125 GP champion as there were such few numbers in the feild that had he finished last he still would have scored enough points too win.

[slowpoke]

there's no way you can check your bike properly and hold it up out on the track at the same time, nobody can, simple as that.


Yeah, totally agree. It may seem tough on the minor crashes but it's one of those scenarios where it's all ok........until it's not. And you don't wanna find out about any one of a hundred breakages that can happen at walking speed when you are back at racing speed.

Lets face it, if you did do even a half decent check of your bike trackside, it's gonna take a minute or two so your race is effectively over anyway. And what about your gear? Who crashes, checks the bike, removes their helmet to give it a once over and then rejoins? No-one.

To have any other rule but "crash, and you park it" enforced is just a nightmare. What are the alternatives? Crash under 30kph and you can remount straight away? Crash under 100kph and you gotta check it track side but can remount? What constitutes a "proper" check? Who assesses the speed? How do you define a "minor crash"? It's impossible, hence all crashes should be treated the same: tech check in the pits before you can rejoin the racing.

[Maido]

Forget the excuses,

This competitor is in his 3rd season of competition and has attended the red bull rookies cup and EJC,If he hasn't bothered to get himself up to speed with the rules and supp regs then the system and his mentors have failed him !!!!

Put simply,Had he re entered pitlane and conformed,He would today be NZ 125 GP champion as there were such few numbers in the feild that had he finished last he still would have scored enough points too win.

How could he re enter pit lane if he isn't allowed to get on his bike and ride back to the pits? Providing of course that he didn't get a ride back in the pick up vehicle?

not shit stirring, just another scenario to consider.

[Billy]

How could he re enter pit lane if he isn't allowed to get on his bike and ride back to the pits? Providing of course that he didn't get a ride back in the pick up vehicle?

not shit stirring, just another scenario to consider.

Good point,Except at this stage there is no rule preventing the competitor from re mounting and riding back to pit lane.

[CHOPPA]

there's no way you can check your bike properly and hold it up out on the track at the same time, nobody can, simple as that.
that was the issue, said rider didn't return to the pits and let anyone check it over.

I never said out on track... Im talking about scruitineering in general and when you have your bike check between races


Correct and that will be made clearer in the rulechange that will pretty much copy word for word the BSB rule that has just been introduced.

The likely penalty for ignoring the ruling and remounting will be that the competitior will be blackflagged immediately and upon returning too pitlane will be excluded from the meeting.

Wow that is a pretty big rule, not a bad idea but will need some fine tuning....

Seems counterintuitive to let a rider return to the pits at race speed to have there bike checked. I would have thought if the rule is designed for riders safety then the next corner is where he will find he has no brakes.... And if the rule is designed for fluid dropping, by the time the rider gets back to the pits he would have left oil everywhere and usually the rider would be aware of this before he got to the pits.

Also there is going to have to be an inspector ready and waiting in pit lane at all times

[jellywrestler]

And if the rule is designed for fluid dropping, by the time the rider gets back to the pits he would have left oil everywhere and usually the rider would be aware of this before he got to the pits.


won't matter to most people, we all know it's only ever Sidecars that leak oil eh?

[CHOPPA]

Forget the excuses,

This competitor is in his 3rd season of competition and has attended the red bull rookies cup and EJC,If he hasn't bothered to get himself up to speed with the rules and supp regs then the system and his mentors have failed him !!!!

Put simply,Had he re entered pitlane and conformed,He would today be NZ 125 GP champion as there were such few numbers in the feild that had he finished last he still would have scored enough points too win.

Seems a bit unfair to me that this rider was penalised and lost the championship but the championship winner should have been excluded from the results the previous meeting for not returning to the pits to get his bike checked.

Fair enough that he was excluded for acting like a muppet and not following protocol but its frustrating when the rules are not applied consistantly

[Billy]

I never said out on track... Im talking about scruitineering in general and when you have your bike check between races



Wow that is a pretty big rule, not a bad idea but will need some fine tuning....

Seems counterintuitive to let a rider return to the pits at race speed to have there bike checked. I would have thought if the rule is designed for riders safety then the next corner is where he will find he has no brakes.... And if the rule is designed for fluid dropping, by the time the rider gets back to the pits he would have left oil everywhere and usually the rider would be aware of this before he got to the pits.

Also there is going to have to be an inspector ready and waiting in pit lane at all times

You probably need to read the rule as introduced in BSB before commenting further,Their ruling does NOT allow for the competitor to ride the machine back to pitlane.

[Billy]

Seems a bit unfair to me that this rider was penalised and lost the championship but the championship winner should have been excluded from the results the previous meeting for not returning to the pits to get his bike checked.

Fair enough that he was excluded for acting like a muppet and not following protocol but its frustrating when the rules are not applied consistantly

Yip,

Thats fair comment,But in this case there was a little more to it if you followed the whole incident from the time the machine hit the ground.

Also while MNZ do try to administer the rules as fairly as they can,For the most part it is not MNZ officials calling the shots,In some cases they are club officials who occasionally get it wrong,In which case all competitors in that race have the option of protesting or atleast approaching the MNZ steward and pointing out the incident.

[quallman1234]

Hehehe, *Subscribes*

[CHOPPA]

You probably need to read the rule as introduced in BSB before commenting further,Their ruling does NOT allow for the competitor to ride the machine back to pitlane.

How will this rule work regarding a red flag situation?

If you crash and cause a red flag, race goes back to previous lap so technically you havnt crashed during the race. Can you get your bike rechecked and restart the race?

[Billy]

How will this rule work regarding a red flag situation?

If you crash and cause a red flag, race goes back to previous lap so technically you havnt crashed during the race. Can you get your bike rechecked and restart the race?

Err,Just cause the result goes back a lap,Doesn't mean you didnt crash and possibly damage your machine,As I suggested,Go to the BSB rules and read the whole rule.

[CHOPPA]

Err,Just cause the result goes back a lap,Doesn't mean you didnt crash and possibly damage your machine,As I suggested,Go to the BSB rules and read the whole rule.

Have read there rules so the answer is that if you crash and the race is restarted because you have crashed you cant restart.

This clears up the red flag problem that I raised earlier. Good

[Mental Trousers]

Good point,Except at this stage there is no rule preventing the competitor from re mounting and riding back to pit lane.

That's the only bit that was unclear for me. Cheers.

[jellywrestler]

Seems a bit unfair to me that this rider was penalised and lost the championship but the championship winner should have been excluded from the results the previous meeting for not returning to the pits to get his bike checked.

just proves that the rider you're talking about was not familiar with the rulebook else he could've protested at HD and had the other competitor disqualified from the results, and he would've known the go at Taupo too...

one thing is clear to me is that while we've got a lot of young folk coming through how many are actually picking up the rule book themselves and familiarising themselves with it.
Methinks maybe there can be a bit of freelance entertainment a the prizegivings next season eh?

[Billy]

Have read there rules so the answer is that if you crash and the race is restarted because you have crashed you cant restart.

This clears up the red flag problem that I raised earlier. Good

Careful now,Don't want to be seen to agreeing on anything here,This is kiwibiker LOL!

Looks like a good commonsense rule to me for sure.

[Skunk]

Against my better judgement I am going to comment.
Very few commenting here heard the radio calls and know what was going on at Taupo so I'd suggest that not too much is read into it when looking at this rule change.

I do think it's time for the red flag/rejoining rules to be looked at; and the bike recheck system.

[speights_bud]

Against my better judgement I am going to comment.
Very few commenting here heard the radio calls and know what was going on at Taupo so I'd suggest that not too much is read into it when looking at this rule change.

I do think it's time for the red flag/rejoining rules to be looked at; and the bike recheck system.

I was thinking the same thing and also agree with you.


While we are discussing such things...
There are ways that will help getting bikes back to pit lane within a reasonable time frame, without risking riding a potentially damaged bike.

For example:
At the final National round attaching a Trailer to Super-Quad enabled the bikes to be loaded much faster and returned to pit lane behind the last bike to clear the track. Much faster than waiting for the track to be clear & sending out a recovery vehicle etc.

This also reduces the risk of fluid being spilled onto the track while loading as the quads can load up in the middle of the Sandpits no problemo. But when loading onto a recovery vehicle that is parked on the track itself, spillage can occur. One Superbike picked up that weekend dribbled oil out of its belly pan when it was backed up then pushed forward and uphill onto the trailer.

Just something other clubs could look into as it is an effective way to reduce downtime and keep on schedule.

[suzuki21]

one thing is clear to me is that while we've got a lot of young folk coming through how many are actually picking up the rule book themselves and familiarising themselves with it.


Are you seriously implying someone under 25 years old would want to actually do something, rather than expect someone to do it for them?

[Mental Trousers]

Are you seriously implying someone under 25 years old would want to actually do something, rather than expect someone to do it for them?

Don't be like that. Just throw the rules up on Facebook (rewritten in txt language of course) 5 minutes before a race and the young un's will be up to date in no time.

[ajturbo]

i used to think it was ..... "interesting" that i had to inspect a crashed raced bike....:facepalm:...
what do i know about bikes?..unless they were spewing oil on the dummy grid while i looked at the bike... and felt the front brake, i would let them go out... they knew their bikes!.. i thought it the funnest when Fred Merkel (SP?) got ME to inspect his son's bike.. hahahahah

and on that note... what about the buckets.. i have been known to crash a few times in the 6 lap race..... :confused:

[budda]

Seems silly that if I was to crash I would have to have someone less qualified than myself and my team to check over a bike they have no knowledge on to tell me if it is safe :facepalm:

Come on Choppa - most scrutineerOOPS, I mean machine examiners are doing the job BECAUSE of their experience ....... in fact most would have forgotten more than most riders know about safe machine preparation. This is about another, unbiased set of eyes checking YOUR bike to save YOUR arse, NOT an un-needed way of throwing a spanner in the works of your race day

[CHOPPA]

Come on Choppa - most scrutineerOOPS, I mean machine examiners are doing the job BECAUSE of their experience ....... in fact most would have forgotten more than most riders know about safe machine preparation. This is about another, unbiased set of eyes checking YOUR bike to save YOUR arse, NOT an un-needed way of throwing a spanner in the works of your race day

Yeah its not such a bad idea really, I know what you mean about another set of eyes. Sometimes something can be looking straight at you but because you have been looking for so long you miss it. I have seen the state of some bikes people turn up to the track on as well.....

[lukemillar]

However it is our intention to clarify this further for next years series and we are looking at introducing a rule as used internationally that makes it compulsory to have a bellypan or catch tray that holds a minimum of 3 litres to further reduce the risk of fluids leaking on to the track surface.

Yes! Coming from the UK, I was really surprised when I found this wasn't a requirement on race bikes here.

[jellywrestler]

Are you seriously implying someone under 25 years old would want to actually do something, rather than expect someone to do it for them?
point taken Steve, what the fuck was I thinking?

[jellywrestler]

Sometimes something can be looking straight at you but because you have been looking for so long you miss it.


Shoulda gone to specsavers!

[SWERVE]

point taken Steve, what the fuck was I thinking?

Alas in many cases that is true.......... but not all.

[Skunk]

For example:
At the final National round attaching a Trailer to Super-Quad enabled the bikes to be loaded much faster and returned to pit lane behind the last bike to clear the track. Much faster than waiting for the track to be clear & sending out a recovery vehicle etc.

That was one of the best and simplest ideas I've seen in a long time. One of those "Why hasn't that been done before" moments. PMCC did really well with it and we're arranging it for the Winter Series.

Having a medic in the safety car was good too but I don't think we need that at every event. Having the ambulance ready to roll at race starts and First Aiders on the quads is more effective.

[budda]

Yeah its not such a bad idea really, I know what you mean about another set of eyes. Sometimes something can be looking straight at you but because you have been looking for so long you miss it. I have seen the state of some bikes people turn up to the track on as well.....

Plain bloody SCARY mate .......I'm reasonably fussy with my own bikes, but have to admit that sometimes another set of peepers have spied something I could have done better. Just imagine, if we could get Race bikes SAFE, OIL TIGHT, QUIET and CRASHPROOF, how much more racing could we all get in on Race Day ?

[SWERVE]

Yeah its not such a bad idea really, I know what you mean about another set of eyes. Sometimes something can be looking straight at you but because you have been looking for so long you miss it. I have seen the state of some bikes people turn up to the track on as well.....

Bike inspection is most welcomed from this camp. I spend countless hrs maintaining/prepping my bikes, but am all to happy for another to check it over. Nobody is perfect and should take any thing found to be wrong as a blessing in disguise.
I remember the good ol days when srutineering started at 5.00am and it was a long queue even then............. oh and to have to take the "walk of shame" back past everyone else.............. let alone having to re-join the end of queue.
At the big meetings when i was crewing for drag race teams we had to arrive a day early...just for scrutineering. (and we were only on track for 7sec at a time.some much less)
While some might say it irelevent as anyone can change something after scrutineering or leave something loose while doing routine stuff between races...........true.
But anyone rider or crew who doesnt take the correct approach/responsibility to working on a race bike..... should consider if they are in the right sport. We all have a duty of care not only to ourselves or our rider/s but to every other person on or off the track that will suffer from the consequences of our carelessness.
I pulled the pin on trying to get one of my bikes repaired at HD. We could have got it out on track....probebly/just but i would not have been able to check everything the way i felt comfortable with...... so the descision was made. Might have only been the Protwin champs at stake... but would have made same descision if it had been a superbike.
As i have posted elsewhere on KB........ i have been caught out by such actions.......... so very anal about this now.