Acetone as a fuel additive

[zeRax]

Acetone as a fuel additive (http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Acetone_as_a_Fuel_Additive)

just started reading this now seems interesting, lemme know your thoughts guys, gonna keep reading and possibly try it , depending on what i learn from reading the rest

^_^

[Zapf]

I also heard it eats/hardens the rubber compoents in your fuel lines over time.

[GSVR]

I also heard it eats/hardens the rubber compoents in your fuel lines over time.

Just like the fuel did when leaded fuel was replaced in the early 90's.

Fuel companys were putting all sorts of crap in the fuel they were blending.

[ZorsT]

it looks pretty promising, but it would be a pain in the arse to accuratly measure the correct amount of acetone to put in your tank

[WINJA]

YOU CAN USE IT IN BIKES THAT HAVE CARB ICING PROBLEMS LIKE THE ZX9 C1 AND C2

[Motu]

Acetone was always a component of racing fuels,not for any benefits of it's own,but to help the mix of other components.The article said it reduced surface tension of molecules - so that sounds right.Acrilic laquer thinners is acetone,get it from an automotive paint shop.

[Flyingpony]

In many hardware stores it's right beside kero, turps and meths.
I know HD riders put meths in their tanks.
Not too sure why they'd do that.

[Lou Girardin]

In many hardware stores it's right beside kero, turps and meths.
I know HD riders put meths in their tanks.
Not too sure why they'd do that.

It's hygroscopic, blends with water in the tank, which is then burnt with the fuel.

[Pancakes]

Would meths/alcohol in the tank do the same thing as water or alcohol injection in the air intake? Cool the intake charge to allow greater timing advance before knocking starts and more dense intake charge. Since HD's have big cylinders they may be more prone to knocking like rotarys with their long narrow combution chanber. (Harleys and Rotors in the same line! Hope no-one puts a price on my head!)

[vifferman]

Would meths/alcohol in the tank do the same thing as water or alcohol injection in the air intake? Cool the intake charge to allow greater timing advance before knocking starts and more dense intake charge. Since HD's have big cylinders they may be more prone to knocking like rotarys with their long narrow combution chanber. (Harleys and Rotors in the same line! Hope no-one puts a price on my head!)
Not really, but it would have the same effect as using a higher octane fuel, because alcohol burns slower then petrol.

[Motu]

Some countries have petrol with alcohol added,NZ is thinking of doing it now too - 10% is the normal ratio.An easy natural octane booster.Trouble is it absords water - so any water lying around in service station tanks,or your own tank will also be absorbed,so the 10% is out the window.Steel tanks naturaly condence water out of the air,that's why the service station storage tanks never pick up off the bottom.At a certain point the water will drop out of suspension,then you got problems.I once did an experiment with petrol,meths and water to see what would mix with what in what ratios,dunno what it proved but it was interesting anyway.

Another thing I have found when adding alcohol to petrol tanks is it brings all the shit from the bottom with it,hopefully just blocking the filter.But once when I added an additive to the tank of my Nissan diesel which amoungst it's other claims was supposed to absorb the water.I think there was a lot of water and crap in my tank - it went straight through the fuel filter and into the injector pump,blocking the intake....expensive.I cut open the filter and unrolled the paper - not a trace of muck,so kinda pointless.

[Lou Girardin]

Would meths/alcohol in the tank do the same thing as water or alcohol injection in the air intake? Cool the intake charge to allow greater timing advance before knocking starts and more dense intake charge. Since HD's have big cylinders they may be more prone to knocking like rotarys with their long narrow combution chanber. (Harleys and Rotors in the same line! Hope no-one puts a price on my head!)

Water/methanol has to be injected separately to the fuel. But it does make a big difference to boosted engines.

[bugjuice]

is anyone going to try it in their bike..??

[ZorsT]

is anyone going to try it in their bike..??
i will have to run a few tanks of normal gasoline to see if it does help fuel economy

[Zapf]

when you burn methanol you get water.... good like with all the steel in your engine and exhaust system

[Pixie]

when you burn methanol you get water.... good like with all the steel in your engine and exhaust system
When you burn any hydrocarbon you get water and C02,and that includes heptane,hexane and octane (petrol).So I don't think it's a problem unless your motor is made of sugar.

[zadok]

There was quite a bit about this in the news some time ago here. Some service stations were blending it with their petrol. Caused a huge outcry. Apparently it isn't good for the motor, especially in too higher ratios or something.

[speedpro]

My bike runs on a mixture of methanol(75%) and 100 octane(25%). To that I have to add about .5L of acetone to get it to blend. The fuel mix stays foggy till you get just the right amount of acetone and then it suddenly goes clear.
Acetone is great for cleaning bits and for that really stubborn dirt I find a soak in Tuluol will eventually get rid of it, along with your cleaning rag and "any" oil on/in your skin. Actually I've found it good for cleaning carbs that have been left for a long time with fuel in them.

On that note, I have about 15L of Toluol in the garage if anyone has a use for it. I've changed the fuel mix and don't use it any more. Couple of beers would be fine.

[thehollowmen]

There was quite a bit about this in the news some time ago here. Some service stations were blending it with their petrol. Caused a huge outcry. Apparently it isn't good for the motor, especially in too higher ratios or something.

Good call.
They also used xylene for that (nasty stuff that - disolves plastic and rubber worse than acetone)

Anyways, petrol stations were buying 91 in bulk and adding combinations of Xylene, alcohol, methanol and acetone to help anti-knock the mixture and were selling it as 96 and higher.

This didn't sit well with a lot of old roadsters / hot rods / classics where the fuel lines and seals were plastic or rubber (rubberised cloth?). You'd fill up the tank and that night everything would leak out as the fuel line and seals disolved.

The float diaphram in some things would also disolve. They're worth a shitload.

I may be speaking crap, this is what I remember from my neighbours (hot rodders) getting all up in arms and my working with xyelene and a fuzzy memory.

[scumdog]

There was quite a bit about this in the news some time ago here. Some service stations were blending it with their petrol. Caused a huge outcry. Apparently it isn't good for the motor, especially in too higher ratios or something.

Yep, when unleaded first came in it caused the carb O-rings etc to swell - had to cut a pice out of the float-chamber ring and superglue the ends together to get it back in place.
Also shagged the fuel line and other fuel related bits on my hot-rod truck - and it pinged like crazy even though the "Super' was meant to be the same octane - and still does to this day, argh!!

[thehollowmen]

Yep, when unleaded first came in it caused the carb O-rings etc to swell - had to cut a pice out of the float-chamber ring and superglue the ends together to get it back in place.
Also shagged the fuel line and other fuel related bits on my hot-rod truck - and it pinged like crazy even though the "Super' was meant to be the same octane - and still does to this day, argh!!
Sorry to hear that :-(


Can anybody confirm that the new BP 98 is oxygenated? (less than 10% etOH or 5% mtOH)

[speedpro]

The octane number stayed the same with the switch to unleaded, BUT, the method used to determine it was changed. Unleaded 96 is actually a bit lower octane, as determined using the same method, than the old leaded 96. Or so I've heard.

I have to agree with everyone who thinks modern fuel is dodgy. If you have a reasonably modern car with a knock sensor, sometimes theres a definite performance change after a fill up as the engine management makes adjustments for fuel variation. For this reason if you are racing you should use either 100 octane or some other verified racing fuel. It can save a lot of heartache if you're engine is tuned on the edge.

[pritch]

I find a soak in Tuluol will eventually get rid of it, along with your cleaning rag and "any" oil on/in your skin.

A word of caution perhaps as youngsters read these pages:

We should be careful what we clean our hands with. Some of those things, eg methanol, may get your hands clean but are poisonous and are absorbed through the skin. The effect is also cumulative.

All the aforementioned chemicals should be treated with considerable respect

[speedpro]

The label on the tin says it all, as if the smell wasn't enough to tell you. Nasty stuff.

[pete376403]

when you burn methanol you get water.... good like with all the steel in your engine and exhaust system

When you burn petrol you get water, too. Where else does all that water vapour you can see in cold exhaust gases come from? Fortunately, when the motor and exhaust system get hot, the water is boiled out.

[scumdog]

When you burn petrol you get water, too. Where else does all that water vapour you can see in cold exhaust gases come from? Fortunately, when the motor and exhaust system get hot, the water is boiled out.

Most of the water comes from the air, after all a lot of the time you are running a ratio of 14 parts of air to one part of fuel (give or take a bit) and as air contains a lot of moisture (especially at this time of year) it stands to reason a lot gets flung out of your exhaust - you can't 'burn' it after all.

[thehollowmen]

Most of the water comes from the air, after all a lot of the time you are running a ratio of 14 parts of air to one part of fuel (give or take a bit) and as air contains a lot of moisture (especially at this time of year) it stands to reason a lot gets flung out of your exhaust - you can't 'burn' it after all.

Can't burn water oooohohahahahhhha that's a good one
I need to show you a trick with burning Aluminium sometime.. strips the oxygen right off the H2O and because water is more oxygen rich than air you make a big explosion.

*raises eyebrow*
My bike is all aluminium... uh oh.

[vifferman]

There was quite a bit about this in the news some time ago here. Some service stations were blending it with their petrol. Caused a huge outcry. Apparently it isn't good for the motor, especially in too higher ratios or something.
I was actually in Perth when this hit the news. I was flabbergasted at this, because they were prosecuting service station owners there for doing EXACTLY the same thing as our gubmint condones the oil companies here doing. :mad:

[zadok]

The synthetic petrol plant near Waitara has been churning out synthetic petrol from natural gas for years now. Apparently that is blended with the imported fuel. Sounds like a brilliant idea to me and I've wondered for a long time now why there haven't been more plants built. Natural gas seems to be in abundant supply. We have masses off the north west here. The oil companies wouldn't like it but. My heart bleeds for them, not.

[thehollowmen]

Can anybody confirm that the new BP 98 is oxygenated? (less than 10% etOH or 5% mtOH)

To those who can used mixed fuel bikes, BP fuels don't contain any alcohol. Just got an email back thismorning from them.

[kerryg]

The synthetic petrol plant near Waitara has been churning out synthetic petrol from natural gas for years now. Apparently that is blended with the imported fuel. Sounds like a brilliant idea to me and I've wondered for a long time now why there haven't been more plants built. Natural gas seems to be in abundant supply. We have masses off the north west here. The oil companies wouldn't like it but. My heart bleeds for them, not.


That plant was a natural gas -to methanol -to gasoline process (it made methanol as an intermediate product). IIRC it stopped making gasoline some years ago when acquired by Methanex (big Canadian methanol producer) and has since been producing only methanol.