Teaching for loose surface?

[george formby]

Just a quickie. I'm going to try & teach my gf how to feel comfortable with her trail bike getting a little loose this afternoon, like on a gravel road. A bit nervous about it, obviously. I'm going to start with getting her to stand & keep the bike upright & stable using her body weight then progress to a slalom where she will eventually have to use the throttle to kick the bum out a bit. Softly, softly.

We are not looking for the next NZ Enduro champion here, just a bit of practice to understand loose surface dynamics & build confidence.

Any thoughts, tips, advice most welcome. Doing it is one thing, teaching another if you get my drift. (ha, a pun!)

[george formby]

Bumpty bump. Plastic shattering time approaches. Youtube is strangely useless on this subject. Should I cocoon the bike in bubble wrap?

[slofox]

Make sure the insurance is current...:whistle:

[george formby]

Make sure the insurance is current...:whistle:

Ah yes, with good raisin.

[slofox]

Ah yes, with good raisin.

I can't really offer you any sound advice on this one - bein' a road warrior an' all...

In my experience, the less rider input the better on loose stuff - hang loose, go with the flow etc etc. But I bet you don't need to be told that anyway.

[Ender EnZed]

Get her to try just giving it heaps (or as much as necessary) to get the back wheel spinning while still heading in a straight line. Getting comfortable with the sensation of the back wheel doing something different might be easier without trying to change direction at the same time.

[george formby]

I can't really offer you any sound advice on this one - bein' a road warrior an' all...

In my experience, the less rider input the better on loose stuff - hang loose, go with the flow etc etc. But I bet you don't need to be told that anyway.

Yup, I have the basics & have thought through exercises which will hopefully lead too her being confident with the bike moving & learning to rear wheel steer when required. I'm hoping an off road mentor might be able to give me some tried & tested techniques for progressive learning rather than my make it up as I go along situation.
Their are much betterer teachers here than me.
Ah well, a nail biting & fun afternoon ahead. The grass is wet now too:shit:

[gunnyrob]

Try this! (some good stuff here)

[chasio]

Try this! (some good stuff here)

Nice one, thanks :niceone:

[Phreaky Phil]

I would suggest taking things very slowly, not sure how much riding she has done, but what is easy and natural for some one who has been riding for years will freak a newbie out. I dont necessarily agree with teaching them straight away to stand up. When sitting they feel more comfortable and can put a foot down. If they mess it up standing up they will probably fall off before they can get a foot down to balance things.

[Woodman]

Trying to think of something constructive to say, but can't think of anything.:facepalm:

Um.. learn to brake confidently and to relax, not every bump/slide/wobble is a precursor to a big crash.

[sleemanj]

My advice FWIW (which isn't much), is that if riding gravel roads more confidently is her (your) aim, then there is only one thing to do, that is ride more gravel, for longer, at the pace that SHE sets.

Don't focus on going faster, or technique. Her aim should be to just get over the fact that you are riding on gravel so that she can RELAX.

It will help if she reminds herself out loud, to relax, to loosen up, it will help to bring her attention to her physical state, so she will notice that she has a death grip on the bars, or her muscles are all tensed up.

[Waipukbiker]

Just my input,

The most effective way to learn balance, throttle control and how to compensate for the bikes wheels not staying in their intended path is by doing trials riding

The best way to get someone used to standing up is to practise doing a full lock turn standing up and not put a foot down and make this a figure 8 so she gets used to doing it both ways. , Im not suggesting climbing over logs etc but even find a muddy slippery patch somewhere and go through it slowly standing and let the wheels slide around learn how to compensate, also, when you get onto a shingle road to practise, stand up in 1st or second gear and zig zag down the road going across the loose shingle between the wheel tracks and get used to the feel of the wheels moving around in the loose stuff, If she gets some confidence doing this then gravel roads will be so much easier and safer.

As mentioned in the previos post, it is so important that she be able to ride within her comfort zone at whatever speed that may be, being put under speed pressure by other riders is a recipe for injury and loss of self confidance. Always remember that saying, Its not about the destination, its about enjoying the ride getting there.

Ride safe and have fun

Cheers

[tri boy]

My advice FWIW (which isn't much), is that if riding gravel roads more confidently is her (your) aim, then there is only one thing to do, that is ride more gravel, for longer, at the pace that SHE sets.

Don't focus on going faster, or technique. Her aim should be to just get over the fact that you are riding on gravel so that she can RELAX.

It will help if she reminds herself out loud, to relax, to loosen up, it will help to bring her attention to her physical state, so she will notice that she has a death grip on the bars, or her muscles are all tensed up.


Wot e said.
Oh and phreaky's blurb about not standing up etc.
lil steps first.:scooter:

[Shewolf]

so, how did she get on? :corn:

[slofox]

Sooo...how did it go then?

[schrodingers cat]

Actually, get her to practice riding in a straight line as slowly as possible (on grass or similar)
Help her understand that any time she approaches this speed she risks geting it wrong.
Adding some speed will help with stability.

Advise her to keep looking well ahead and just let her body work out what to do. If she drops her eyes her balance will suffer. The easiest thing to remember is to keep your head back and chin up.

By approaching loose surfaces with a bit of confidence, a little speed and looking ahead everything will go well. When it turns to custard it is usually because they stopped doing one of these things.

Get her to practice going down hills and not to panic when gravity adds to the speed she has selected.

And don't push her. Let her select her own comfort level

[JATZ]

Some good advice here, but there's no substitute for time on the bike IMHO. Find some nice gravel rd's that aren't too busy and go riding. Confidence will come eventually...and then ya dick off and have to start from square 1 again :facepalm:
I have a dualsport riding dvd here if ya want me to post it up to ya.

[BMWST?]

I find on the ol gs that gravel roads are easy peasy...too easy peasy in fact,remind her that it offers much less stopping ability than seal...i dont mind the rear wheel spinning and the front feeling less than planted,but i dont like going into corners with both wheels locked up...so i give myself plenty of time to slow down for corners or anywhere sight lines are limited
Oh and go easy on the front brake till she gets the feel of it

[bart]

My 2c....what I've learnt over the years is that everyone has a different riding style. There's no 'right' way of riding gravel. Some people find it better to do the sit down, foot sticky outy method. Some people stand and move their weight around. I've seen both methods used very succesfully, and even some very unorthodox hanging off the bike type stuff. I usually stand, but lean the bike over more than most.

My point is, find what method works for you (or her) and build on that. As BMWST? says, brake early and power through the corner. As long as you have control of the front, everything's good. The back can do what it likes.

[NordieBoy]

I was always very tentative in gravel until my eureka moment when I plucked up the courage to give it a handful in a corner one day.
Rear spun up, front tracked nicely instead of washing out and I was hooked.

"If in doubt, gas it out" just freaked me before that moment.

The Dual Sports Riding DVD is good for learning...

[Padmei]

My 2c....what I've learnt over the years is that everyone has a different riding style. There's no 'right' way of riding gravel. Some people find it better to do the sit down, foot sticky outy method. Some people stand and move their weight around. I've seen both methods used very succesfully, and even some very unorthodox hanging off the bike type stuff. I usually stand, but lean the bike over more than most.

My point is, find what method works for you (or her) and build on that. .

Amen. Just let her find her own way in her own time.