Hacking into a WEP secured network [Archive]

jrandom

23rd April 2012, 19:35

As per my subtle, and cowboyz's more informative posts, it's mission impossible.

Incorrect. WEP is cryptographically weak. It has been broken. Brute forcing is not required.

http://www.aircrack-ng.org/doku.php

Getting it running on Android?

https://www.google.co.nz/search?rlz=1C1DVCJ_enNZ430NZ430&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=aircrack+android

Probably not. No point, really. Why bother?

Just run Aircrack on a normal laptop first against the network in question and then you can connect with whatever you want.

Edit: WPA is broken, although not as badly as WEP. WPA2 is still secure, assuming you choose a password that is long enough not to be brute forced and can't be guessed. See http://arstechnica.com/security/news/2008/11/wpa-cracked.ars/1

Scuba_Steve

23rd April 2012, 19:45

hacking WEP :killingme thats like breaking into an open home :laugh:

jrandom

23rd April 2012, 19:57

hacking WEP :killingme thats like breaking into an open home :laugh:

O RLY?

I'll bet you a shiny dollar that if I took away everything but the WEP specification and told you to 'hack' it, you'd die of old age and it'd still be secure.

People like you are the reason I've always been embarrassed to be perceived as 'working in IT'.

Scuba_Steve

23rd April 2012, 20:12

O RLY?

I'll bet you a shiny dollar that if I took away everything but the WEP specification and told you to 'hack' it, you'd die of old age and it'd still be secure.

People like you are the reason I've always been embarrassed to be perceived as 'working in IT'.

I to "work in IT", and if you really think it's that hard I have to wonder about your "expertise". I'd be impressed if you managed to keep me outta a WEP network, you'd be doing alright to keep me outta a WPA network too, not so much credit keeping me outta WPA2 tho

jrandom

23rd April 2012, 20:14

I'd be impressed if you managed to keep me outta a WEP network

My point is that you should have a little respect for the work it took to write the tools you're so smug about being able to download and hit the 'go' button on.

I believe, based on your post(s), that you would be incapable of writing them yourself, and do not understand what they're actually doing.

Scuba_Steve

23rd April 2012, 20:28

My point is that you should have a little respect for the work it took to write the tools you're so smug about being able to download and hit the 'go' button on.

I believe, based on your post(s), that you would be incapable of writing them yourself, and do not understand what they're actually doing.

Write them you'd be correct. Understand them, I have a working knowledge.
I have respect for them but I also acknowledge that because of their availability WEP network hacking is like I mentioned, about as difficult as breaking into an open home.

sil3nt

23rd April 2012, 22:22

This is why I hate IT. Everyone is an expert.

Nova.

25th April 2012, 11:36

My neighbor was kind enough to make his password 'wellington'
had two ps3's running off that for a month until he found out lol. his bill must of been horrendous

pzkpfw

25th April 2012, 12:22

My neighbor was kind enough to make his password 'wellington'
had two ps3's running off that for a month until he found out lol. his bill must of been horrendous

Serious question: if he'd left the keys in his car, would you have stolen it? If he'd dropped his wallet in the street in front of your house, would you have taken the $40 in it?

Scuba_Steve

25th April 2012, 12:25

This is why I hate IT. Everyone is an expert.

and as long as we can keep people believing that the money keeps rolling in... if only people knew what we really did :whistle:

schrodingers cat

25th April 2012, 12:37

Awesome pissing contest!

Does the troll get to be the referee?

Viking01

25th April 2012, 15:18

Following article might be of interest:

http://computerworld.co.nz/news.nsf/security/how-to-hack-your-own-wi-fi-network

willytheekid

25th April 2012, 15:56

Sigh :no:

Don't break into other peoples Wifi! (heard of morals?)

For those of you concerned about security, just used WPA2 and a nice long password (12+ chars), this will ensure that wannabe "hackers" cannot piggyback your home connection easily.(WPA2 is actually pritty secure unless you have the tools, knowledge and the patience to packet capture and descramble the encrypted data)
Always have the option "notify device registration" (differs according to router type etc) set to yes, as this will ensure that anything "trying" to connect to your wifi router will generate a notification message on your registered PC and will not allow a connection until you click "allow" :niceone:
Most importantly, DON'T just plug in your new WIFI router and leave it set to factory default!, take a little time to set up your security and passwords etc as some routers come set up with the same default settings, this make it easyer for others with the same router to gain access :nono:

Breaking into someones WIFI is not only wrong, but its a breach of the electronic communications act!...and the people I work for take these "break ins" VERY seriously...in other words, if you accidentally "try" to breach the security of your local banks WIFI etc....people like me get an immediate notification from the intrusion detection systems and we "jump to it" to track down the offending device and its owner (signals go BOTH ways remember)....and you DO NOT want us to catch you in the act! (you will end up in court)

I can understand the interest in "trying it out", and how "borrowing" your neighbors connection doesn't seem like too bad a thing to do....but its a changing world!, and besides, would YOU like someone eating through your data cap and snooping around on your own PC?:no:

Just don't do it guys...think of it like someone "borrowing" your ride with out asking:eek5: (you'd kick there arse! lol)

Take care KBers, and have a great ANZAC day....lest we forget

NordieBoy

25th April 2012, 16:08

and as long as we can keep people believing that the money keeps rolling in... if only people knew what we really did :whistle:

I live in fear of people finding out that I actually think what I do is fun and stop me doing it and make me get a real job :confused:

steve_t

25th April 2012, 16:16

Edit: WPA is broken, although not as badly as WEP. WPA2 is still secure, assuming you choose a password that is long enough not to be brute forced and can't be guessed. See http://arstechnica.com/security/news/2008/11/wpa-cracked.ars/1

http://craphound.com/images/password_strength.png.jpg

This was back in 2008. I can only imagine that the time needed is much much less these days

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/hardware/elcomsoft-uses-nvidia-gpus-to-speed-up-wpawpa2-brute-force-attack/2724

jrandom

25th April 2012, 18:13

This was back in 2008. I can only imagine that the time needed is much much less these days

Yes; the speed of computers increases as a linear progression, though, while increasing password length increases the computational difficulty exponentially. (And decreasing it decreases the difficulty exponentially.)

Short or easily-guessed passwords will always be weak against brute-forcing, no matter how solid the underlying encryption is. And passwords that are long enough will always be secure against brute-forcing, assuming that our current understanding of basic physics is correct and ignoring the possibility that presumed-solid encryption can eventually be mathematically broken.

Personally, just like the cartoon suggests, I use passphrases for everything that matters.

jrandom

25th April 2012, 18:22

For teh epic lulz. I just want to see if I can do it really, I'm not even going to try with WPA/WPA2 as that's very secure from what I've heard.

I see you lurking.

Can I make a suggestion?

Instead of looking to spend your time and brainpower cracking shit for lulz (which is, once you get over the fact that technology is involved, basically akin to tagging scribbles on walls, peeping at people through open blinds or stealing wallets from car gloveboxes) why don't you teach yourself computer programming and start doing useful and interesting things with it?

It might even lead to a lucrative career, if you don't already have one.

Just a thought.

:sherlock:

Usarka

25th April 2012, 18:33

Personally, just like the cartoon suggests, I use passphrases for everything that matters.

Except microsoft websites, they will tell you the passphrase is too weak.

jrandom

25th April 2012, 19:07

Except microsoft websites, they will tell you the passphrase is too weak.

Mmyes. There are algorithms for measuring information entropy. Presumably Microsoft's web people are uninformed. In fact, I don't know that I've ever seen a website password checking thingy that uses such technology.

An old colleague of mine incorporated a bunch of that stuff in her master's thesis. I just went googling for it and found her blog, which I'd forgotten existed, and spent a quarter of an hour looking at her photos. Now I've forgotten the point I was going to make.

People and their holiday snaps on the internet aye. All about not putting themselves in the shot. Just pictures of buildings and scenery and shit. If there's anything I've learned about photography (I haven't learned much about photography) it's that a photo needs a point of interest. Just because you're excited about being some place doesn't mean it'll make a good photo. Unless it's, like, on the moon, or at the top of a mountain or something.

Put yourself or your companion(s) in the shot. Just grit your teeth and do it. The photos with people in them are the ones that'll be noticed and remembered. Self-consciousness be damned, everyone already knows what you look like.

scracha

25th April 2012, 19:20

Does anyone here know if there is an app for Android that can do a brute force attack on a WEP secured network?

I thought you were an uber linux expert?

Oh wait...you just fuck about with Ubuntu and think you're an expert.

SMOKEU

25th April 2012, 21:05

I see you lurking.

Can I make a suggestion?

Instead of looking to spend your time and brainpower cracking shit for lulz (which is, once you get over the fact that technology is involved, basically akin to tagging scribbles on walls, peeping at people through open blinds or stealing wallets from car gloveboxes) why don't you teach yourself computer programming and start doing useful and interesting things with it?

It might even lead to a lucrative career, if you don't already have one.

Just a thought.

:sherlock:

I've being learning programming for the past 2 months as part of the course I'm doing.

I thought you were an uber linux expert?

Oh wait...you just fuck about with Ubuntu and think you're an expert.

No, not at all. I don't use Ubuntu either. I'm guessing that you're a professional knob jockey.

Usarka

25th April 2012, 21:27

Fast Eddie

25th April 2012, 21:35

i did comp121 and 122 at canty..

computers are shit lol, I'll never use one again :clap:

Oakie

25th April 2012, 21:49

You know that this is the sort of thread that can get the owner of the website hosting it in trouble?

mashman

25th April 2012, 21:58

Scuba_Steve

25th April 2012, 22:03

jrandom

26th April 2012, 06:18

That is the problem with IT.

It's the only "profession" that you can pick up fucking around with your PC at home, doing a course at the local college, or getting a couple of easy-as "certifications".

No offence Smokeu. But I'm sure it'll cause offence to many people reading this.

*shrug*

No offence taken.

I didn't learn fuck all during my comp sci BSc. I'd already taught myself the basics during the long, lonely years of early teenage-hood, when I sat in my bedroom reading TAoCP instead of talking to girls.

And I always knew I didn't want to be an 'IT guy'. Fuck that for a job. Might as well be a plumber. In fact, that's what I like to compare it to. Crawling around on your knees showing your butt crack, maintaining the data tanks and bit pipes. Not that that's a bad thing. The world needs plumbers and IT guys. I just don't want to be one.

Being a professional programmer is entirely different.

http://www.grok2.com/progfun.html

"The programmer, like the poet, works only slightly removed from pure thought-stuff. He builds his castles in the air, from air, creating by exertion of the imagination. Few media of creation are so flexible, so easy to polish and rework, so readily capable of realizing grand conceptual structures. (...)

Yet the program construct, unlike the poet's words, is real in the sense that it moves and works, producing visible outputs separately from the construct itself. It prints results, draws pictures, produces sounds, moves arms. The magic of myth and legend has come true in our time. One types the correct incantation on a keyboard, and a display screen comes to life, showing things that never were nor could be.

Programming then is fun because it gratifies creative longings built deep within us and delights sensibilities we have in common with all men."

scracha

26th April 2012, 16:41

I've being learning programming for the past 2 months as part of the course
No, not at all. I don't use Ubuntu either. I'm guessing that you're a professional knob jockey.

Dude...as you can't (yet) perform any useful programming nor IT function then I don't know why you bother to post in this subforum. Thus far, most of your answers seem to be

a) Plug in a bootable linux disc
b) Fuck off back to Asia

Perhaps if you were trying to ask genuinely useful questions or actually help people you'd get a better response. You could for example, enlighten us as to what type of programming you're learning. Call me a pervert but I have a fondness for ye olde "C".

Bassmatt

26th April 2012, 16:59

"The programmer, like the poet, works only slightly removed from pure thought-stuff. He builds his castles in the air, from air, creating by exertion of the imagination. Few media of creation are so flexible, so easy to polish and rework, so readily capable of realizing grand conceptual structures. (...)

Yet the program construct, unlike the poet's words, is real in the sense that it moves and works, producing visible outputs separately from the construct itself. It prints results, draws pictures, produces sounds, moves arms. The magic of myth and legend has come true in our time. One types the correct incantation on a keyboard, and a display screen comes to life, showing things that never were nor could be.

Programming then is fun because it gratifies creative longings built deep within us and delights sensibilities we have in common with all men."

:rolleyes: :tugger:

jrandom

26th April 2012, 17:05

:rolleyes: :tugger:

I'm guessing you spend a lot of time crawling around plugging in cables with your crack showing.

:sunny:

SMOKEU

26th April 2012, 17:14

You could for example, enlighten us as to what type of programming you're learning. Call me a pervert but I have a fondness for ye olde "C".

Jade. Haven't done any C. We all have to start somewhere, or were you born an expert at everything to do with computers?

Bassmatt

26th April 2012, 17:39

I'm guessing you spend a lot of time crawling around plugging in cables with your crack showing.

:sunny:

In my spare time, purely for fun :laugh:

jrandom

26th April 2012, 20:56

... were you born an expert at everything to do with computers?

How old are you?

mashman

26th April 2012, 21:20

How old are you?

possibly 1100 :eek:

SMOKEU

26th April 2012, 21:23

How old are you?

22. How about you?

bogan

26th April 2012, 21:25

:rolleyes: :tugger:

He sounds like a python programmer eh! :rolleyes:

jrandom

26th April 2012, 21:27

22. How about you?

Look at my profile page. It has my birthday on it.

I was writing C when I was ten years younger than you are now.

jrandom

26th April 2012, 21:27

He sounds like a python programmer eh! :rolleyes:

That was written some while before Python was invented.

bogan

26th April 2012, 21:35

That was written some while before Python was invented.

Yeh, was just taking the piss. I kind of see where he is coming from, as an engineer we kind of operate one step higher up the ladder but the principals are much the same; the inflated self worth of the keyboard jockey just triggered my amusement.

SMOKEU

26th April 2012, 21:37

Look at my profile page. It has my birthday on it.

I was writing C when I was ten years younger than you are now.

Good on you then.

Funny how people expect me to go from being a n00b to an expert all in 1 day. We all had to start somewhere and at least I'm making an effort not to be an idiot for the rest of my life.

jrandom

26th April 2012, 21:37

... as an engineer we kind of operate one step higher up the ladder but the principals are much the same; the inflated self worth of the keyboard jockey just triggered my amusement.

I didn't read it as self worth; just someone who enjoys what he does. He wasn't putting anyone else down.

I find your negative reaction odd.

bogan

26th April 2012, 21:45

I didn't read it as self worth; just someone who enjoys what he does. He wasn't putting anyone else down.

I find your negative reaction odd.

:rolleyes: The was a continuation of me taking the piss, pretentiousness brings that out in me.

jrandom

26th April 2012, 21:54

Funny how people expect me to go from being a n00b to an expert all in 1 day.

Perhaps the only person who expects that is you?

I like your posts. You're not stupid.

Forget Jade. With that shit you're just floating on what, to you, will be an arbitrary sea of abstractions. You'll get nowhere. You need to start at the beginning.

You need to learn two things:

1. How programmable computers work. The whole concept of addressable memory and sequences of instructions that perform arithmetic operations, tests, and conditional branches.

2. The fundamental theory of algorithms and data structures that allows you to turn point 1 above into kiwibiker.co.nz, Microsoft Word, Gran Turismo 5, etc.

None of this has changed since the 1950s and none of it ever will change.

From the practical side, if you want to learn something useful, there are two CPU architectures to learn (ARM and x86), and one programming language (C).

Start with C. You have a PC, yes? Write Windows console programs using Microsoft's free Visual Studio Express tools.

Start googling and reading. All the tools and the information you need are right at your fingertips.

jrandom

26th April 2012, 22:01

... pretentiousness brings that out in me.

You're still being negative, calling it 'pretentiousness'.

I feel sorry for you if you can't see any beauty or excitement in those concepts.

Or are you just not used to writing earnestly and openly about anything on the internet, and feel that you need to pre-emptively take the piss before anyone else takes it out of you first? I can understand that.

bogan

26th April 2012, 22:25

You're still being negative, calling it 'pretentiousness'.

I feel sorry for you if you can't see any beauty or excitement in those concepts.

Or are you just not used to writing earnestly and openly about anything on the internet, and feel that you need to pre-emptively take the piss before anyone else takes it out of you first? I can understand that.

"The magic of myth and legend has come true in our time." You don't consider that pretentious?

I know there is beauty and excitement in programming, it's often the last stage of my engineering projects where everything comes together. But all I would say is it's a pretty sweet feeling, not that it is the stuff of myth and legend, thats overstating it just a tad.

SMOKEU

26th April 2012, 22:29

Perhaps the only person who expects that is you?

I like your posts. You're not stupid.

Forget Jade. With that shit you're just floating on what, to you, will be an arbitrary sea of abstractions. You'll get nowhere. You need to start at the beginning.

You need to learn two things:

1. How programmable computers work. The whole concept of addressable memory and sequences of instructions that perform arithmetic operations, tests, and conditional branches.

2. The fundamental theory of algorithms and data structures that allows you to turn point 1 above into kiwibiker.co.nz, Microsoft Word, Gran Turismo 5, etc.

None of this has changed since the 1950s and none of it ever will change.

From the practical side, if you want to learn something useful, there are two CPU architectures to learn (ARM and x86), and one programming language (C).

Start with C. You have a PC, yes? Write Windows console programs using Microsoft's free Visual Studio Express tools.

Start googling and reading. All the tools and the information you need are right at your fingertips.

As for Jade, we have to learn it at Polytech as part of the software engineering course. I don't have any choice in the matter. I've heard a lot of negative stuff about Jade, pretty much everyone "in the know" is telling me to start with C. I don't currently have a Windows computer as my main rig won't POST so I'm using the Linux box till I get that sorted.

bogan

26th April 2012, 22:38

+1 for the start with C advice. I've learnt a few languages, delphi, java, C, C++, VB6, C# is all so far, and the only ones of any use (outside of academia) have all started with a C, Java I think can be good, but not so much in my line of work, delphi and VB6 are widely regarded as rubbish.

mashman

26th April 2012, 22:46

As for Jade, we have to learn it at Polytech as part of the software engineering course. I don't have any choice in the matter. I've heard a lot of negative stuff about Jade, pretty much everyone "in the know" is telling me to start with C. I don't currently have a Windows computer as my main rig won't POST so I'm using the Linux box till I get that sorted.

google is your friend... hit 1 for c++ on linux (http://www.yolinux.com/TUTORIALS/LinuxTutorialC%2B%2B.html) (using yahoo).

There's always a way... you just gotta open them thar eyes

SMOKEU

26th April 2012, 22:49

google is your friend... hit 1 for c++ on linux (http://www.yolinux.com/TUTORIALS/LinuxTutorialC%2B%2B.html) (using yahoo).

There's always a way... you just gotta open them thar eyes

Cheers for that. Now, for the next issue.

Do I use the sudo apt-get install (insert package name here) without the brackets to install the package?

mashman

26th April 2012, 22:51

Cheers for that. Now, for the next issue.

Do I use the sudo apt-get install (insert package name here) without the brackets to install the package?

slightly paraphrasing my software dev lecturer, "don't be such a lazy cunt"... and we never had the internet resources you guys have these days. We even had tape cassette recorders and betamax video.

scracha

26th April 2012, 22:53

Jade. Haven't done any C. We all have to start somewhere, or were you born an expert at everything to do with computers?

Nope, but I started fixing mate's computers and playing with code (back in ye olde 80's there used to be magazines with programming tutorials and literally pages of code) well before my teens. At your age I was a happy coder with a large student loan. anyhoo...best advice I can give is
a) you really gotta love coding and/or IT otherwise you'll burn out and get jaded.
b) there's some really, Reall, REALLY clever dudes doing coding/IT. To your mates you're a geek. To them, you're a noob. Learn from them....if they give you the time of day.
c) don't get stuck in one particular technology rut (learn about other stuff....may involve changing jobs)

You need to learn two things:

<<---snip--->>

seful, there are two CPU architectures to learn (ARM and x86), and one programming language (C).

Start with C. You have a PC, yes? Write Windows console programs using Microsoft's free Visual Studio Express tools.

Start googling and reading. All the tools and the information you need are right at your fingertips.
Mostest excellentest advice in this thread IMHO

SMOKEU

26th April 2012, 23:19

slightly paraphrasing my software dev lecturer, "don't be such a lazy cunt"... and we never had the internet resources you guys have these days. We even had tape cassette recorders and betamax video.

I really must learn more about Linux. The more I use it, the more I like it. I've been getting as many of my mates onto Mint as possible. Now I need to learn the terminal stuff.

Nope, but I started fixing mate's computers and playing with code (back in ye olde 80's there used to be magazines with programming tutorials and literally pages of code) well before my teens. At your age I was a happy coder with a large student loan. anyhoo...best advice I can give is
a) you really gotta love coding and/or IT otherwise you'll burn out and get jaded.
b) there's some really, Reall, REALLY clever dudes doing coding/IT. To your mates you're a geek. To them, you're a noob. Learn from them....if they give you the time of day.
c) don't get stuck in one particular technology rut (learn about other stuff....may involve changing jobs)

Mostest excellentest advice in this thread IMHO

Thanks for the advice.

Gremlin

27th April 2012, 00:36

After my time in Uni I learnt a few things. If you want to do/learn programming, then do it. It certainly isn't some "fun" degree like arts or something. Likewise, you also have to have the head for it, and thinking to match. Sort of hard to explain, but there's programmers and general IT/network etc people. I'm the latter.

Simplest example I could ever demonstrate it with was taking field input in a program. A programmer would think <0, <10, <20 etc. I would think <0, >0 - <10, >10 - <20. It sounds trivial but it's about the thinking. It also explains why I hated it and never want to go back. Code makes little sense to me, but I go as far as vbscript for scripting server tasks. I can pull apart a network in my head but give me screens of code and I see gibberish.

Further, don't take everything the Uni/polytech etc says as gospel. They will teach you whatever they think is brilliant, but if the software is written in a different language then it's useless, other than the theories/rules/syntax possibly being applicable and then it takes a little time to pick up the rest. If you really want to achieve, then do the course but teach yourself whatever the guys here recommend. Uni is a whole different cute little world to the commercial world, where dollars and profit, deliverables etc are what matter. Remember you're competing against your class mates for a job at the end, so if you're doing whatever anyone else is, then where is your point of difference?

Remember, IT is a fast bloody moving world. You're somewhat insulated as the code base doesn't change too much, but you can't keep relying on some institution to teach you what you need to know. You wait for a course and the first movers will be well ahead of you. By the time you finish, the move will already be over. Perhaps it's just me hating Uni, but hopefully I'll never go back. The vast majority of my learning has been getting hands on with the equipment with a fundamental knowledge of how it should work, the rest is stitching it together.

jrandom

27th April 2012, 05:49

But all I would say is it's a pretty sweet feeling, not that it is the stuff of myth and legend, thats overstating it just a tad.

Probably cos you're a Kiwi and he's a Murkn, heh. It was hyperbole, I know. But I understand where he was coming from. It's like saying we like motorcycles because riding them plugs into our really old evolutionary urge to fly like birds (which happens to be a theory of my own).

I think he was probably also invoking Arthur C Clarke's "any sufficiently advanced technology would be indistinguishable from magic" idea.

jrandom

27th April 2012, 06:06

I really must learn more about Linux. The more I use it, the more I like it. I've been getting as many of my mates onto Mint as possible. Now I need to learn the terminal stuff.

Yes, learn the 'terminal stuff'. And learn how the guts of operating systems actually work, and how to write a program that runs within one.

You really are going to have to teach yourself all this stuff. Don't expect to learn anything useful at tech. Do your assignments, but start learning to actually write computer programs in the rest of your time.

All the really good software engineers I've met either:

A. taught themselves at a very young age, or

B. did their degree and the initial years of their working life in something more or less unrelated, like mining engineering or chemistry or pure mathematics, found themselves writing computer programs as part of their work, and gravitated toward doing it full-time as a job.

I believe it's rare for the software engineering degree mills to churn out anyone useful.

You have some catching up to do.

But everything you need to teach yourself really is right there on the internet. Even if you have to torrent yourself some illicitly copied ebooks.

Just start writing programs. Linux is even easier to get going on with a C compiler than Windows. Just start. Write 'Hello World', then write something that takes some text input and does something to it and prints it back out, then write a program to play noughts and crosses, then just basically do whatever takes your fancy. Learn about TCP sockets and write a network chat program. But write code and run your programs, it's the way to learn.

Look up algorithms and data structures. Learn about how to sort and search large quantities of data in memory. Learn about how to efficiently store information. Learn about how it's possible to write two programs to do the same job, one that'll be slow when given a large amount of data to work on, and one that'll be fast.

Get a copy of the second edition of 'The C Programming Language' by Kernighan and Ritchie, and read it from cover to cover. It's not difficult, it's quite short. There'll be ebook torrents aplenty. Then find yourself copies of 'Programming Pearls' by Jon Bentley, and the three volumes of 'The Art of Computer Programming', by Don Knuth.

Basically, either your natural curiosity and intelligence will drive you to do what you need to, or you shouldn't be trying to learn this trade.

Buyasta

27th April 2012, 19:44

I really must learn more about Linux. The more I use it, the more I like it. I've been getting as many of my mates onto Mint as possible. Now I need to learn the terminal stuff.

YMMV, but probably the best way to do this is to use something other than Mint - Ubuntu and Mint are great for people who just want a functional OS, but to learn the nuts and bolts of Linux, using the least user-friendly distro you can find is much more useful - you don't necessarily need to switch the distro you use on an everyday basis, just installing and configuring one can be a decent learning experience.

I first starting using Linux about 12 years ago, and after playing around with Redhat and Mandrake for a couple of years, I installed Gentoo, which was worlds apart. Whereas Redhat and Mandrake both came with the system and a full desktop environment with a whole bunch of commonly used applications, Gentoo pretty much just consisted of the system and the package management system - you even had to manually install your favoured syslog and cron daemons during install, and if you wanted X and a window manage, you had to install it yourself, from source. During the course of that install I learned 10x more about Linux than I'd learned in the previous 2 years of using GUI-centric distros, and over the next few years, fixing the weekly breakage of my system from system updates taught me a great deal more.

While you'd be hard pressed to find a distro that still breaks your system on a weekly basis just from updating, you still might want to try using a distro aimed more at power users - personally I favour Arch these days, but if you really want to learn the nuts and bolts, LFS could be a good learning experience.

As jrandom mentioned, doing C programming in Linux is extremely easy, all you need is GCC and a text editor, although an IDE can be rather useful, and on the subject of textbooks, if you want to learn more about OS fundamentals, I found Tanenbaum's Modern Operating Systems rather good, and if you have any interest in scheduling, semaphores etc, definitely worth a read.