Do bike riders = better car drivers?

[tigertim20]

yes has been done before, but i dont care.

a discussion around this came up on another forum, and i thought Id share my personal view on this here - critiques, corrections, opinions and discussions welcomed because its a holiday tomorrow and I dont have to go to bed early!

I hear alot of people discuss this, the idea is tossed around often that being a bike rider makes you a better car driver.
The basis of this view is generally that, because of your increased vulnerability on a bike, you become more aware of potential hazards, and you diversify your focus to what others MIGHT do, and where they are, rather than just what YOU are doing - this idea is basically the concept of situational awareness.
Those who argue this point will suggest that these habbits transfer over into your car driving habbits.

I dont agree.

To a small degree, your driving may improve a bit, but its more likely to be a change to general driving habbits, such as looking further ahead and vanishing point on windy roads, rather than on overall improvement in your driving.

The reason I dont agree with a total improvement as a result of motorcycling is because situational awareness is just that - situational.
Your situation or circumstances change when you are in a car, and when you are on a bike - many of those things are things that affect you subconsciously - such as leaning over and switching radio stations, leaning back at the lights, and stretching your legs, having a seat belt across your chest, having protection from the elements and air conditioning.
Because your conscious senses are bombarded with a number of differences that you are aware of - your behaviour will change.

When you hop onto your bike, you have a helmet snugly fitted around your head, you are open to the elements, feel the road surface much more, feel the temperature and all of its changes and wind gusts, your hands are gloved and their movement is somewhat different, you probably wear protective gear (hopefully!) which is considerably more restrictive for motion that say shorts and a t shirt, and another fundamental difference is a bike activates the clutch with the hand, and the gears with the foot, a car activates the clutch with the foot, and the gears with the hand, a bike accelerates by hand, a car by foot, and so on and so forth.

a good example is the temperature, a conscious reminder that you are more susceptible not only to the elements, but to the road surface, and more prone to injury in the event of a mishap - a 40km/hr T-bone on a bike will easily kill you - the same in a car will probably piss you off, and require you to pop a couple panadol while you fill out insurance forms.

as a result of all of the conscious, and subconscious differences, your actions, attitudes and habits are created, and practiced in a vastly different manner between each vehicle.

I would summarize by saying that while bieng a bike rider might alter some very minor actions (such as how far ahead you look while travelling - which is a relatively inactive action) it is unlikely to affect your active actions - at an intersection in a car you check your mirrors then drive off, on a bike you turn your head and view each direction directly, there arent any blindspots or pillars to obscure vision.
additionally, on a motorcycle, a head check allows you to directly analyse a true position, whereas your car driving habits (where you only look in the mirror) gives you a reversed (reflected) position of everything.

[darkwolf]

Since riding, I've become a lot calmer in the car. Though it's more difficult to overtake slow drivers, I'm not as eager. I'm more aware of other vehicles, road conditions, lines, and overall more defensive.

I agree that your surroundings determine how you interpret your actions on the road, but being aware on the bike has transferred to the car. I think it's impossible for there not to be a transfer between your riding and driving behaviour. If you are more aware on your bike you're more aware in your car and vice versa.

[Flip]

Sorry whats your point?

I am a slow rider, put me in a good car and its a diferent story.

I did an advanced driving course, Rodger Peterson was one of the instructors. By the time we had done half a lap he asked what kind of bike I ride. He picked it a mile away then spent the next 20 min saying "brake later and carry more speed into the corner". Being a biker makes me a more cautious driver, most of the time on the road it is a good thing, on the track it is a bad thing.

[Oakie]

In some ways, eg road condition awareness, yes. In some ways ... driving your car like it was a small nimble bike, no.

[steve_t]

I say yes. The increase in situational awareness is HUGE and this does translate through to driving, especially in relation to the ol' SMIDSY. Things like looking further ahead are also significant in improving one's driving. These things might seem small by themselves but all together, I think they make riders significantly better drivers

[speights_bud]

I Guess so... after racing 2-stroker's I now have the necessary skills to thrash the tits off my 1.3 corolla everywhere i go, keeping it in the "Powerband" coz the damn thing has no torque, burns oil like a mofo and gotta stop the plugs fouling up!

[MIZXR]

It makes you more aware of other bikes on the road, at least sometimes.

[Asher]

When i jump from my bike to my car i seem to find judging my speed alot harder for some reason, i often find myself speeding and have to keep telling myself to slow down and check the speedo. I guess i feel alot more disconnected in the car, not much road noise or feeling of wind to judge my speed like i do on the bike.
I do now make sure i double check my bind spots in the car so i can never be accused of SMIDSY

[Berries]

On the bike I don't get road rage, I laugh. This has transferred to my driving where I expect the unexpected. But when cocooned with the heater and radio on and kids going off on the back seat I am just as likely to pull out on some dude on the bike as any other car driver. I wouldn't do that on a bike cos it would hurt.


When i jump from my bike to my car i seem to find judging my speed alot harder for some reason, i often find myself speeding and have to keep telling myself to slow down and check the speedo.
First ever speeding ticket in 25 years on the road was last month. In a car on a piece of road I use every day. I don't blame the bike though. If I had been riding on that particular section of road I would normally have been doing 30km/h more and would have been walking for the next 28 days.

[Spuds1234]

I have no opinion because in the 10 years since I first got my license I've never learned to drive a car.

Hell Im not even adding anything to this thread.

I'll show myself the door now.

[unstuck]

What do you consider a good driver? Excellent car/bike/truck control does not make you good driver does it?:devil2:

[Motig]

Being aware of your surroundings and anticipating likely scenarios yes. Making you a better driver- no.

[Maha]

Being aware of your surroundings and anticipating likely scenarios yes. Making you a better driver- no.

100% agree with this...
I have seen bike riders that have no care for themselves or others, whether they drive a car or not is irrelivent, it wont teach/change driving habits of a lifetime.
I will answer the question in the negitive..thank god you didn't poll it, to easy for people to click rather than to say what they think.

[p.dath]

Before you can answer that question tigertim20, you first have to decide what a "good" driver is. Tell me what you think a good driver is, and you'll be able to answer the question more easily.

[KoroJ]

I think one tends to learn to take better lines on a bike and likely to apply that in a car.

Increased situational awareness should flow over to the cage as well.

The negative is, it's easy to get more frustrated when driving because on the bike one can oass dickheads that hold up traffic etc.

[GingerMidget]

I wouldn't say since riding a bike I've become a better driver in the cage, but the looking further and better definitly applies. I still swear the same amount, but on the bike I'm a lot calmer about it, because I'm expecting people to not see me and drive accordingly.

Maybe its cos people see my car and imagine its being driven by old people, and they break real easy?

[Latte]

Before you can answer that question tigertim20, you first have to decide what a "good" driver is. Tell me what you think a good driver is, and you'll be able to answer the question more easily.


Better, not good, world of difference there.

[p.dath]

For anyone bored enough, this is a description I wrote several years ago for what I consider a good road user to be.

262572

A quick summary to answer the original post. After riding a bike, I think areas that you improve on generally that will also assist in driving a car include:
* Ethical qualities (such as do no harm to others)
* Mental qualities (such as alertness, awareness, etc)
* Skills/Knowledge improvements (such as hazard perception, road surface awareness, etc)


But I am biased, being a rider, and may not be able to asses my own abilities accurately ... :)

[GrayWolf]

better driver? NO
I did an advanced driving course with the ambulance service, run by an ex professional driver and rally driver. The one thing I did obviously different from 'joe average driver' was to use the road, rather than 'keep to the left'.

What I feel motorcycling gives me, is greater awareness of road conditions, road surfaces and how they affect grip. I approach roundabouts etc actively assessing rather than pull to the 'give way/stop' and then assess traffic.

Downside?? hehe When I met my partner I got severe complaints that I was 'DRIVING' the car on twisty bits, not thinking of passenger comfort......OOOOPS
Funny thing is... since she rides herself now, guess what??? Hahahahaha!!!!

[steve_t]

better driver? NO
I did an advanced driving course with the ambulance service, run by an ex professional driver and rally driver. The one thing I did obviously different from 'joe average driver' was to use the road, rather than 'keep to the left'.

What I feel motorcycling gives me, is greater awareness of road conditions, road surfaces and how they affect grip. I approach roundabouts etc actively assessing rather than pull to the 'give way/stop' and then assess traffic.

Downside?? hehe When I met my partner I got severe complaints that I was 'DRIVING' the car on twisty bits, not thinking of passenger comfort......OOOOPS
Funny thing is... since she rides herself now, guess what??? Hahahahaha!!!!

So, you're now more aware of road conditions, surface types and the grip they give; you approach roundabouts actively assessing BEFORE you get there but you don't think that makes you a better driver? :weird:

[Geeen]

As a few have already said, I think the awareness riding a bike teaches does transfer to a car. I also agree that I'm clamer in the car since I got back on a bike, but, the two vehicles are completely different ie if you took the same lines in a car as you would on a bike on a lot of our back roads it wouldn't end too well.

[kiwi cowboy]

Hmmmm interesting thred.

I cant in all honesty say my driving is affected but the reason for that could be because i road a bike for the first 6 years of my licence before getting my car licence so could be argued i already had the hightened situtional awearness when in a car so dont notice it the same as if having driven a car for years before getting on a bike.

Just to add another slant to this.

I have noticed that since riding a race bike on the track and pushing the limits a fare bit i have noticed that when i get on the road bike i think everything is like slow motion in things happening around me.
I realise i dont ride anywere as hard on the road actualy like a nana but i seem to take in alot more is this like more hightened awearness??.

Shit i hope that makes cents.:rolleyes:

[MSTRS]

better driver? NO
I did an advanced driving course with the ambulance service, run by an ex professional driver and rally driver. The one thing I did obviously different from 'joe average driver' was to use the road, rather than 'keep to the left'.

What I feel motorcycling gives me, is greater awareness of road conditions, road surfaces and how they affect grip. I approach roundabouts etc actively assessing rather than pull to the 'give way/stop' and then assess traffic.

Downside?? hehe When I met my partner I got severe complaints that I was 'DRIVING' the car on twisty bits, not thinking of passenger comfort......OOOOPS
Funny thing is... since she rides herself now, guess what??? Hahahahaha!!!!

The bit I've bolded almost gives the lie to the rest of your post...
Everything you describe yourself doing in a car says you are a better driver for having spent time on a bike. The term 'better driver' is a package...vehicle control, situational awareness, preplanning, roadcraft etc
The one bit of your post I'd have an actual problem with is "...use the road, rather than 'keep to the left'." I hope you meant 'use all of the lane'...smoothing a corner by crossing the centreline is a :nono:

[GrayWolf]

The bit I've bolded almost gives the lie to the rest of your post...
Everything you describe yourself doing in a car says you are a better driver for having spent time on a bike. The term 'better driver' is a package...vehicle control, situational awareness, preplanning, roadcraft etc


The one bit of your post I'd have an actual problem with is "...use the road, rather than 'keep to the left'." I hope you meant 'use all of the lane'...smoothing a corner by crossing the centreline is a :nono: <<< correct I should have ensured that I was intending to indicate 'LANE USAGE' in the main.
However I do and was taught then (ambo) and on previous advanced rider course in UK to also 'use the road'.. IF you can see clearly ahead for a good distance and can straighten out the road by using the WHOLE road? There is nothing unsafe with the practice.

I would also add my thoughts on a good car driver? As well as situational awareness, there is also vehicle control etc. I am a full time rider so if I have to pick a 'weakness' in my driving? it IS a lower level of experience in car handling/performance on the road. hence why I do not think riding the bike has made me a 'better driver' per se.

[schrodingers cat]

When interviewed a disportionate amount of riders/driver percivetheir abilities to be 'average to above average'

So I'm happy to tell you I am both a shit rider and driver. Hopefully my admission will drag the rest of you overly well equipped fuckers back to where you belong on the bell curve.

[MIXONE]

I'm a far better driver now but still find lane splitting in the car can be a bit challenging.

[bogan]

I'm a far better driver now but still find lane splitting in the car can be a bit challenging.

I got as far as wheels on the centerline before realising it wouldn't work in a van.

I'm not sure there is significant technique improvement; but for me there is an improvement in mindset. I now know just how much harder it is to be aware in a car, so take it slower, and look out for bikers :msn-wink:

[Tigadee]

I think I'm a better driver since riding a motorcycle.

I'm more aware and active in scanning the road all around now, looking over my shoulders, looking ahead, etc, as if I were on my bike. I did those already before being on a motorbike, but just all the time now instead of most of the time.

Only thing is I think I do drive a tad faster than I used to before being on a bike... :innocent:

[Fast Eddie]

became a worse driver,

took 2 wheels off the car to try make it feel like a motorbike. didnt end well.

[MSTRS]

<<< correct I should have ensured that I was intending to indicate 'LANE USAGE' in the main.
However I do and was taught then (ambo) and on previous advanced rider course in UK to also 'use the road'.. IF you can see clearly ahead for a good distance and can straighten out the road by using the WHOLE road? There is nothing unsafe with the practice.

I don't agree...
It becomes a learned habit and is used all the time. Unless you are actually overtaking another vehicle, with the requisite visibility etc, you must keep to the left. From time to time our friends in blue set up video 'stings' in areas where the practice is common. Those caught doing it get the big stick.



I would also add my thoughts on a good car driver? As well as situational awareness, there is also vehicle control etc. I am a full time rider so if I have to pick a 'weakness' in my driving? it IS a lower level of experience in car handling/performance on the road. hence why I do not think riding the bike has made me a 'better driver' per se.
I seem to be disagreeing with you a lot...but I am here too.
You may not feel that your car handling skills are right up there - through unfamiliarity, I guess - but how many people who do drive actually have good car handling skills? I'll bet that none of them have your roadcraft either, so who's the better driver?
The number of drivers I'm forced to be behind at times, who brake for uphill corners for instance...when they are already travelling at 20/30kph slower than the speed limit :facepalm:

[GrayWolf]

I don't agree...
It becomes a learned habit and is used all the time. Unless you are actually overtaking another vehicle, with the requisite visibility etc, you must keep to the left. From time to time our friends in blue set up video 'stings' in areas where the practice is common. Those caught doing it get the big stick.

hehe My turn... I dont' agree with that as a blanket statement.
I will accept that in some cases it can become a permanent habit. I view it as an option. Part of assessing road conditions, traffic, visibility etc. There is a hill which I and many many others will ride on a regular basis, it has some sections that are a series of short sweepers left and right, in an almost straight line. In the centre of the road you can see the full distance of the bend series... straightening these types of bends out is not a dangerous practice. AS LONG (agreed) as it does not become the common thing to expect to do......

I seem to be disagreeing with you a lot...but I am here too.
You may not feel that your car handling skills are right up there - through unfamiliarity, I guess - but how many people who do drive actually have good car handling skills? I'll bet that none of them have your roadcraft either, so who's the better driver?
The number of drivers I'm forced to be behind at times, who brake for uphill corners for instance...when they are already travelling at 20/30kph slower than the speed limit :facepalm: <<< OK I will accept this MSTRS, I will agree my 'reservation' on better driver IS due to unfamiliarity on the whole.

[mossy1200]

Im never really in a hurry in a car(95-100 is all good). Its just a form of transport. Idd like to think im alot less likely to hit a motorcycle or open my door on a pushbike or change lane into a vehicle in mirrors blind spot than the average driver because I tend to double check and im prepaired to go round the block rather than change lanes suddenly. Maybe that due to riding bikes.

[MSTRS]

I don't agree...
It becomes a learned habit and is used all the time. Unless you are actually overtaking another vehicle, with the requisite visibility etc, you must keep to the left. From time to time our friends in blue set up video 'stings' in areas where the practice is common. Those caught doing it get the big stick.


hehe My turn... I dont' agree with that as a blanket statement.
I will accept that in some cases it can become a permanent habit. I view it as an option. Part of assessing road conditions, traffic, visibility etc. There is a hill which I and many many others will ride on a regular basis, it has some sections that are a series of short sweepers left and right, in an almost straight line. In the centre of the road you can see the full distance of the bend series... straightening these types of bends out is not a dangerous practice. AS LONG (agreed) as it does not become the common thing to expect to do......

I know the hill...we have plenty of primo roads round these parts with a series of open sweepers that can be seen through from end to end too... but I stand by what I say. Not everyone on the road is capable of recognising when it's ok or not...they just do it randomly or all the time.
I do agree - there are times and places where it should be a perfectly safe thing to do, but it is illegal, you can be done for "Failing to keep left" and the police do carry out covert surveillance/photo ops on the practice. Sometimes they radio their mate down a aways to stop you, or the first you know is when the ticket arrives in the mail.

[tigertim20]

Before you can answer that question tigertim20, you first have to decide what a "good" driver is. Tell me what you think a good driver is, and you'll be able to answer the question more easily.

I never said anything being a good driver.

my question was, does being a rider of a motorcycle make you a better car driver.
It is entirely better to improve, and still be a shit driver

[p.dath]

I never said anything being a good driver.

my question was, does being a rider of a motorcycle make you a better car driver.
It is entirely better to improve, and still be a shit driver

That being the case, if it improved only one single aspect, then the answer would be yes. And you yourself gave several examples of things it improved, so I think you answered your own question. Only for some reason you came to a different result.

[Headbanger]

Considering I have never been trained,assessed nor monitored in any relevant manner I'd say I'm not merely absolute shit but I'm also dangerous.



See you all out on the road.

[JimO]

Considering I have never been trained nor monitored I'd say I'm not merely absolute shit but I'm also dangerous.



See you all out on the road.
ah yes but at least you have all your fingers

[Nova.]

TL;DR

nah i don't think it does either.
depends on the person imo.

[240]

I believe we do become better car drivers, for example doing a head check before changing lanes, how many of you do that when driving your car?Probably heaps and you don't even think about it.Its second nature to a biker.Recently I was out with a client on the Motorway and I did a headcheck before merging, the client thought this was as funny as fuck and I explained to him that a rider needs to do this as well as a mirror check.We then spoke about general awareness of other road users,road rage etc and I believe that as a rider (in my opinion) you do become far more aware of what is around you, and you learn to keep calm if some fuckwit pulls out in front of you.
Now if only more fucken asians rode bikes..........................:whistle:

[BMWST?]

awareness,anticipation,situational awareness,calll it what you will.This is no minor thing and does translate to car driving and may save you or another from a bad situation one day,that is GOOD .If you do good thing you must be a good driver.I easliy avoided a nose to tail on the motorway the other day ,both lanes were involved(i could see it happening a mile off.) I stopped in time to avoid the actual nose to tail but the dude behind me didnt....

[tigertim20]

That being the case, if it improved only one single aspect, then the answer would be yes. And you yourself gave several examples of things it improved, so I think you answered your own question. Only for some reason you came to a different result.

the question was more about whether it had the effect of an overall improvement, not whether or not it had an affect at all - hence my conclusion.
that only my conclusion though, others opinions may differ, and no doubt they will.

I was more interested in a discussion that getting one persons conclusion

[Tigadee]

Now if only more fucken asians rode bikes

Too bad most of them ride scootahs...

[caspernz]

As a generalised statement I'd agree that a biker makes a better car driver. Extend that further, in my profession as a truck driver, it's been noted by the driver trainers (a group I belong to) that the truckers who also ride bikes have a better overall awareness. The next thing that shows is good lane usage and being smoother in managing momentum.

Hardly scientific but it's interesting how across a group of hundreds of drivers the bikers can be picked out by their habits behind the wheel...

If there is a downside it's that after a trip away on the bike I find that I DRIVE the car harder, or so the wife says.

The proviso being of course that a dickhead on a bike will still be a dickhead in a car or a truck.

[Headbanger]

awareness,anticipation,situational awareness,calll it what you will.This is no minor thing and does translate to car driving and may save you or another from a bad situation one day,..

I call it go get some training in advanced driving. I have zero faith in self-taught driver becoming self-taught motorcyclists as a way of upskilling.

That said, worst thing I ever did was send the wife to driving school, ffs, and I thought she was a pain in the arse before someone schooled her up on all the crazy shit I do wrong with a motor vehicle.