Crashed (Sorry Katman)

[superman]

So ashamed... :confused:

I was enjoying a nice little pootle home, lane splitting as per usual in 5pm Auckland traffic. And a car failed to give way to me as it turned down a side road, (I could have easily avoided it with a bit more forethought...) but luckily by the time I smacked into the car I was probably only doing 15km/h so I just ended up falling off and sliding forward a metre and under her bonnet.

She was adamant I was breaking the law by lane splitting, plus she doesn't have any sort of insurance... So I called the popos :Police: and once they arrived (1.5 hours after crash...) they determined her at fault and issued her with a 'failing to give way' infringement.

My bike is fully functioning, and didn't leak any fluids. But the entire headlight is smashed out, with the surrounding fairings scratched and snapped. My question is what am I supposed to do if she doesn't have insurance? (Mine is only 3rd party). Do I simply take it to a repair shop and then give her the bill?

Only have a bruise on the bum, and a much bigger bruise of the ego for my failure to avoid the accident in the first place.

[Road kill]

Small claims court.

[Renegade]

Small claims court.

what he said

[Madness]

Worst case scenario is that you fork out a pile of cash to repair the bike then spend a long time and more cash in obtaining a Disputes Tribunal judgement against her and more time and cash in enforcing this judgement. Then you might end up getting $10 per week from her until it's paid. Win.

Hope like fuck she's a nice person.

[superman]

Hope like fuck she's a nice person.

They seemed nice, they were just sure it was my fault. But after the cops told them they were to blame, they let me store my bike in their garage. So hopefully I can just send them bills and not have to deal with epically drawn out bureaucratic small claims court.

[Katman]

Good on you for accepting your degree of culpability in not avoiding the crash but........

.....car drivers have a reasonable right to expect when on-coming traffic stops to allow them to turn across the traffic that no other vehicle is going to "appear out of nowhere".

If motorcyclists continue to fail to recognise gaps in traffic like this as major lane-splitting hazards it won't be long before laws are passed to make any form of lane-splitting illegal.

[cowboyz]

in a nice world... yes.. she is at fault and will simply pay the bill.

In the real world. She will be nice as pie till she realises how much it will be then no ammount of jumping up and down is gonna get you paid.

The court system is solely setup to extort money out of you. Once awarded.. they still dont HAVE to pay it. Its like an optional thing. And it will cost you around $2-300 to get some guy in a funny hat to tell them to pay you, which they will ignore.

try your luck. send them the bill. Fingers crossed for you. I hope they are not samoan.

[superman]

If motorcyclists continue to fail to recognise gaps in traffic like this as major lane-splitting hazards it won't be long before laws are passed to make any form of lane-splitting illegal.

Yes, I'm wondering to myself what I was thinking at the time... usually when lane splitting I'm on the motorway so as soon as a gap appears you obviously need to watch out for cars zooming into the gaps willy nilly just from lane changing.

I wonder if my being used to this made me only worry about lane changers rather than oncoming turning traffic which can't happen on the motorway. Because really it was extremely stupid, I could have easily recognised what was going to happen far earlier than when my brain finally clicked. Froze like a damn rabbit in headlights. :facepalm:

[Katman]

Ok, now you've got me confused.

Was the car driver turning from an on-coming position or were they heading in the same direction as you before making their turn?

[MSTRS]

You could try your insurer. I know you only have 3rd party - but, if the offending vehicle/driver is identified, your insurer may fix your bike and chase said driver for re-imbursement.

[superman]

Ok, now you've got me confused.

Was the car driver turning from an on-coming position or were they heading in the same direction as you before making their turn?

You were right the first time. Car was on-coming.

I was trying to say I'm used to lane splitting when on-coming traffic cannot cross your path (like on the motorway), and that might be why I didn't register the hazard. Lack of brain on task, dreaded 'habitual' lane splitting.

[Madness]

You could try your insurer. I know you only have 3rd party - but, if the offending vehicle/driver is identified, your insurer may fix your bike and chase said driver for re-imbursement.

Then he could go to Maccas and pay for a Cheeseburger and when they hand it to him he could wink at them nicely and ask to swap it for a Mighty Angus combo (Large) with Coke and a free Apple Pie. Good luck with that too.

[superman]

Then he could go to Maccas and pay for a Cheeseburger and when they hand it to him he could wink at them nicely and ask to swap it for a Mighty Angus combo (Large) with Coke and a free Apple Pie. Good luck with that too.

Yeah, I don't think my insurer would do jack. Especially since my premium is a whole $40 per year! :laugh:

[MIXONE]

Good on you for accepting your degree of culpability in not avoiding the crash but........

.....car drivers have a reasonable right to expect when on-coming traffic stops to allow them to turn across the traffic that no other vehicle is going to "appear out of nowhere".

If motorcyclists continue to fail to recognise gaps in traffic like this as major lane-splitting hazards it won't be long before laws are passed to make any form of lane-splitting illegal.

Have to agree with you there.The most dangerous thing when lanesplitting is a gap in the traffic.

[haydes55]

Yeah, I don't think my insurer would do jack. Especially since my premium is a whole $40 per year! :laugh:

$40 a year!!!! I'm paying $64 per month =( for full though (and I'm a lil kid).

You can buy a new badass light now :cool:

[bogan]

You were right the first time. Car was on-coming.

I was trying to say I'm used to lane splitting when on-coming traffic cannot cross your path (like on the motorway), and that might be why I didn't register the hazard. Lack of brain on task, dreaded 'habitual' lane splitting.

If you were splitting, and the car was oncoming and turned across your path, how come the vehicles you were splitting between didn't join the mess?

Your insurer is worth a try, just ring up and ask; chances are they would want to know about accidents and repairs anyway.

[superman]

$40 a year!!!! I'm paying $64 per month =( for full though (and I'm a lil kid).

You can buy a new badass light now :cool:

Lol yeah, full insurance would have been $700 or more per year, so wasn't worth it. I thought to myself, if I bomb my bike and it's entirely my fault I deserve to suffer financially. So I thought 3rd party only would make me ride more carefully in the most common 'biker fault' situations such as losing it on a corner etc. Has worked fine for the last 25,000km...

[scumdog]

If you were splitting, and the car was oncoming and turned across your path, how come the vehicles you were splitting between didn't join the mess?

Your insurer is worth a try, just ring up and ask; chances are they would want to know about accidents and repairs anyway.

My thoughts too.

My take on lane-splitting is: you ride down the gap between two columns/rows of cars etc heading in the same direction as yourself.

So, to clarify re the incident involving the O.P:

He was lane-splitting between the rows of cars going in the same direction as him.

At some stage a vehicle on the other side of the road travelling in the opposite direction turned right to head down a side street (i.e. across the lanes being used by the O.P. and other cars).

O.P. hit this car - so how come only he and none of the other cars in the two lanes travelling in the same direction hit the turning car???

[superman]

If you were splitting, and the car was oncoming and turned across your path, how come the vehicles you were splitting between didn't join the mess?

Your insurer is worth a try, just ring up and ask; chances are they would want to know about accidents and repairs anyway.

I was going faster than the two cars I was splitting between. I assumed :no: the car on my right would continue travelling forward because there were a few car lengths gap before the next car, so I started going past him, didn't realise he was slowing down obviously to let a car turn down the side road. I was paying attention to the cars up ahead that I would be splitting through next. When I realised they were stopping to let a car turn I started to brake, but the oncoming car had already started to turn without recognising my presence. Not enough space to stop, she saw me when she was already across the first lane and I smacked into her front left headlight.

I'll give the insurer a call tomorrow and see what they say.

[Katman]

If you were splitting, and the car was oncoming and turned across your path, how come the vehicles you were splitting between didn't join the mess?



Probably because they had stopped or slowed to allow the on-coming vehicle to turn.

Hence my comment about the motorcycle "appearing out of no-where".

[Bassmatt]

You could try your insurer. I know you only have 3rd party - but, if the offending vehicle/driver is identified, your insurer may fix your bike and chase said driver for re-imbursement.

I had a similar situation in a car about six months ago. I got rear eneded by a nice lady with no insurance and my car only had third party.
I rang State insurance to see if they could help or offer any advice and basically got laughed at and told to fuck off.
On the brightside we came to an agreement on the value of the car after getting quote from a panelbeater and her husband came around a few days later with a nice shiny cash cheque.
You never know your luck, there are still some honest people out there.

[Usarka]

Did she wait around 1.5 hours for the cops to show?

[superman]

Did she wait around 1.5 hours for the cops to show?

Accident took place 50 metres from her house. I put my bike on her lawn and waited outside for the cops to arrive and mummy to come pick me up. :laugh:

[FJRider]

Perhaps it may pay to look for more specific insurance ... like accident cover only ... rather than full cover.(plus 3rd party may/should be included in it) It may be slightly more than you pay now ... but may be worth it on another occasion in the future.

[GrayWolf]

There was some discussion a short time ago on 3rd party vs comprehensive.
IF and I mean IF you are lucky, your insurer may have given you free protection against just this type of event... Check your policy carefully, but with a $40 a year premium? I am in serious doubt of it.... good luck with persueing her though.

[nzspokes]

Hope like fuck she's a nice person.

Good luck with that. No insurance means no money as a general rule.

Its probably old school of me but I wont drive or ride anything that does not have full cover. Mind you im so old full cover for my bike is only $140 a year.

[mossy1200]

Good luck with that. No insurance means no money as a general rule.

Its probably old school of me but I wont drive or ride anything that does not have full cover. Mind you im so old full cover for my bike is only $140 a year.

Im lucky the insurance company classes my MT as cruiser not naked sports. Its its $49 per month full cover for 16k.
$140 is cheap but I think bike insurance is very dirrectly related to some insured.

[superman]

There was some discussion a short time ago on 3rd party vs comprehensive.
IF and I mean IF you are lucky, your insurer may have given you free protection against just this type of event... Check your policy carefully, but with a $40 a year premium? I am in serious doubt of it.... good luck with persueing her though.

Just checked, my car 3rd party insurance with them has free 'innocent party protection'... unfortunately the bike doesn't get the bonus cover. So looks like I'll have to do everything personally with the driver of the vehicle and hope for full compliance. Else small claims court will be the likely outcome.

Time to look for another bike while this gets fixed I guess...

[Swoop]

My question is what am I supposed to do if she doesn't have insurance? (Mine is only 3rd party). Do I simply take it to a repair shop and then give her the bill?
Good luck with 3rd party, but certainly talk to your insurer.

Last year I had a bint drive into the side of my car. She was uninsured and made various promises to "pay it off" to me directly.
I contacted my insurance company and they handled the matter entirely. Full insurance on my car so they went after said bimbo for the $$$'s which would have cost her quite a tidy sum.

[Woodman]

How many "had a crash today" threads on here involve lane splitting? seems to be quite a few by my reckoning.

Sorta like below really.

I singed my eyebrows today, was just lighting a fag with my blowtorch like I usually do and...............

[Bassmatt]

You might want to subtly remind her you know where she lives :innocent:

[superman]

How many "had a crash today" threads on here involve lane splitting? seems to be quite a few by my reckoning.

Definitely more risky, but I'd done it for 15-20 minutes most weekday mornings for the past 1.5 years. Would be pointless having a motorcycle for commuting in Auckland without doing it. Sitting behind cars sucking in Remuera tractors exhaust fumes is bad enough at traffic lights. Let alone on a 1 hour stop start 25km trip to the CBD.

[FJRider]

Would be pointless having a motorcycle for commuting in Auckland without doing it. Sitting behind cars sucking in Remuera tractors exhaust fumes is bad enough at traffic lights. Let alone on a 1 hour stop start 25km trip to the CBD.

But much cheaper than repair bills ... and the inconvenience of not being able to use it untill it's repaired.

If you only had a prang every 1.5 years ... you could budget for it. But the next one could be the day you get it back on the road. Might be cheaper to get insurance.

[BMWST?]

very very common scenario,some cars will stop and let the right turner go and beckon them through without checcking for any other traffic,and some people then blithely drive through and are surprised when there is another vehicle,totally avoidable grasshopper as you realise.Good luck with your pursuit of the cash

[Madness]

Good luck with that. No insurance means no money as a general rule.

That's my point exactly. A nice person would do what it takes to put the situation right, considering the Po-po have attributed blame against them, regardless of wether or not they have money. If on the other hand the driver is a cunt with all the money in the world they could still fuck Superman over royally.

[maggot]

I think most importantly is that it's good you're still in one piece! Yeah, accidents happen, yeah it was avoidable, yeah it could have gone any other way, but it didn't and you're still alive so :niceone:

Good luck with the repairs and chasing the money. I had a bloke rear-end me mid last year, he wanted to avoid insurance, so I did the leg work and sent him a bill. Direct bank transfer later, and all was settled! I guess I had him by the balls though, I knew he was a lecturer at uni :devil2:

[Fast Eddie]

on the off topic of insurance, I was suprised how cheap it is, my blade is 360 per year with protecta, and my mrs gn250 is 140 per year with NAC and shes on her learners. thats full cover for both, theft, crash, whatever act of god..

[Fast Eddie]

anyone know if u can insure racebikes? lol like against theft mainly.

[nzspokes]

on the off topic of insurance, I was suprised how cheap it is, my blade is 360 per year with protecta, and my mrs gn250 is 140 per year with NAC and shes on her learners. thats full cover for both, theft, crash, whatever act of god..

Why wouldnt you? My Holden got totaled when a young guy hit it. But no problem for me as insurance covered it but his car was in his mothers name and they came at me to fix it. Mum owned a lowed Silva? Parents came saw me in a Merc 4x4. Said they were lawyers and were going to sue me. :oi-grr:

It didnt end well for them when I told my insurance co. I got $500 more than what I had the car insured for. :headbang:

But full comp every time. And include your gear.

[bogan]

on the off topic of insurance, I was suprised how cheap it is, my blade is 360 per year with protecta, and my mrs gn250 is 140 per year with NAC and shes on her learners. thats full cover for both, theft, crash, whatever act of god..

Yeh there's some huge disparity depending on who you go with. I had a 250 insured for 3rd party fire and theft at 100pa, then insured a more expensive 650 for full with different provider for 170pa. Both were classed as classics, but only the later got insured as one.

[Katman]

I think most importantly is that it's good you're still in one piece! Yeah, accidents happen, yeah it was avoidable, yeah it could have gone any other way, but it didn't and you're still alive so :niceone:


And therein lies the problem.

If instead of taking the view that "oh well, :niceone: that you've still alive" we focused on "wake the fuck up 'cos next time you may well be dead" we'd see a far greater reduction in avoidable crashes.

[jrandom]

That's my point exactly. A nice person would do what it takes to put the situation right...

Believe it or not, people like that actually exist.

When I was bicycle couriererering in Auckland, a taxi driver U-turned directly into me. I went over his bonnet and landed on my head in the road.

He came straight to the bike shop with me and bought me a new $400 helmet. Nothing made him do so apart from his conscience.

I was pleasantly surprised.

He was Indian, of course. Probably believed in karma.

[Floppy disk]

And therein lies the problem.

If instead of taking the view that "oh well, :niceone: that you've still alive" we focused on "wake the fuck up 'cos next time you may well be dead" we'd see a far greater reduction in avoidable crashes.

Surely one must learn from their mistakes, but equally surely they must appreciate being given another shot at things. It's the ones who purposefully do stupid things and the ones who don't learn from their mistakes that are classified as idiots. The rest of us simply get it wrong from time to time, and that is part of our nature.
:rockon:

[maggot]

And therein lies the problem.

If instead of taking the view that "oh well, :niceone: that you've still alive" we focused on "wake the fuck up 'cos next time you may well be dead" we'd see a far greater reduction in avoidable crashes.

I see your point, but I respectfully disagree. All I was doing there was offering some words of support, not condoning any inattention that led to the accident. Get off your high horse, unless you've never had a crash that you could have avoided.

[Katman]

I see your point, but I respectfully disagree. All I was doing there was offering some words of support, not condoning any inattention that led to the accident. Get off your high horse, unless you've never had a crash that you could have avoided.

Excusing ineptitude will get us nowhere.

[Madness]

Believe it or not, people like that actually exist.

....

He was Indian, of course. Probably believed in karma.

Many moons ago I was asked to play chaperone to a rather drunk senior manager at a work function and deliver him home in a taxi. The following morning I received a call from my own manager asking if I had the drunk managers wallet, I didn't. Weeks later I was driving through Wellington Airport and recognised the Indian taxi driver from that night standing beside his cab at the rank. I approached him and asked him if he remembered the fare, it seems my colleague made quite an impression. He reached into the glovebox of his cab and handed me a wallet, complete with all credit cards and a couple o' hundy in cash.

If you're going to crash, do it with an Indian. Fuck, I never thought I'd say that :facepalm:

[DODO``]

Do I simply take it to a repair shop and then give her the bill?



Don't do that.

one of the hardest thing for me as former car dealer (was involved in couple of accidents caused by other party) was to fork out money from others, even if its in their fault.

Do not to spend your own money or put your bike in the repair shop first, then hope they will reimburse later. Most will not. or will be very hard.

Get the quote for the repair in at least 2-3 different places then get the money first.

[superman]

Don't do that.

one of the hardest thing for me as former car dealer (was involved in couple of accidents caused by other party) was to fork out money from others, even if its in their fault.

Do not to spend your own money or put your bike in the repair shop first, then hope they will reimburse later. Most will not. or will be very hard.

Get the quote for the repair in at least 2-3 different places then get the money first.

Hmm... well the accident happened about 3km away from Botany Honda, so I've got them to pick it up today. Told them to assess the damage and send a quote to the household. Then if they accept it, would be all sorted, if they say no I guess I'll just have to pay Botany Honda myself and then go to small claims court over bills.

[DODO``]

Hmm... well the accident happened about 3km away from Botany Honda, so I've got them to pick it up today. Told them to assess the damage and send a quote to the household. Then if they accept it, would be all sorted, if they say no I guess I'll just have to pay Botany Honda myself and then go to small claims court over bills.

sounds like a good plan. yup, let them know that you will go to disputes tribunal first if they say no.
if they say no, you WILL need 2-3 quotes (at reputable shops) order for the referee to decide how much needs to be back paid. so do that before you fix the bike.
I've been involved in couple cases.. it will be stressful and take looong time even when you know you will win.

good luck :headbang:

[John_H]

Good on you for accepting your degree of culpability in not avoiding the crash but........

.....car drivers have a reasonable right to expect when on-coming traffic stops to allow them to turn across the traffic that no other vehicle is going to "appear out of nowhere".

If motorcyclists continue to fail to recognise gaps in traffic like this as major lane-splitting hazards it won't be long before laws are passed to make any form of lane-splitting illegal.

For once, I completely agree with you! Lane splitting is such a debated grey area but most evidence points to it not being legal and as such it's up to us to be so careful when undertaking it.

[tbs]

Superman, I've been thinking about this, and if I understand things correctly, then the driver was at fault due to a technicality, but in reality it was your acceleration between lanes and subsequent freezing that really caused the prang? I read your description as suggesting the car on your right slowed and waved them through while you accelerated into the space that they were being waved into. If you were in the left lane proper they would have had a better chance of seeing you and stopping, and you would have had more scope to avoid the collision. While you were technically riding legally, I politely suggest that morally you might be in error to go after them for money to fix your bike. There's been a bit of talk on this thread about good people doing the right thing, and from my understanding of events I suggest the right course of action here is to take it on the chin, as you were prepared to do if you put the bike down yourself, and pay for your own repairs.

Lane splitting is legal, but when you put yourself in an unusual position in a lane at odds with the speeds of surrounding vehicles, then I reckon you can assume some extra responsibility for both your own safety and the consequences of any events influenced by it.

Last time I was up at Red Baron in Grey Lynn there were a number of scraped up Ninjas being stripped for parts. Shouldn't be too expensive to get the bits you need. Just try to avoid buying all new ones.

b.

[DODO``]

'this person is friend of hers.. ' was my initial thoughts..

[bogan]

Nah, in that situation the driver was being waved through, despite not having right of way. Have to be extra careful in those situations, which they weren't. Reckon that cancels out supermans negligence, and we're back to a good old failure to give way!

Speaking of decent people though, I had a similar thing happen to me, except nobody waved her through and I was the only oncoming. But they made sure I was alright, got my bike fixed, and gave me a few MTA vouchers for my troubles. It might just be that crashing right outside her house removes some anonymity though...
I watch the tyre direction and tread movement extra carefully when an oncoming is supposedly giving way no though.

[Asher]

Im super cautious in the cage when people wave me through, its not so much about motorbikes filtering but cyclists blasting through on the far left cycle lane that im worried about collecting.

[The Singing Chef]

anyone know if u can insure racebikes? lol like against theft mainly.

Yep, mine is insured with Protecta for Fire and Theft. Reasonably cheap too.

[pritch]

My experience with the small claims process is limited but in both instances unsatisfactory.

My employer at the time did some work for a guy who subsequently didn't pay. The business owner agreed to give him a credit of 50% if he promised to pay. The credit was passed - he didn't pay. He spun a line of cobblers at small claims and the adjudicator said that there was wrong on both sides and awarded 50/50.

At that point the reluctant payer must have been laughing. I left the job about then but would be surprised if he ever paid a cent.

In another instance a guy I worked with took a contractor to small claims. I also knew the "Judge Judy" (his words). He told me that he had awarded 50/50. I had the impression that he was more concerned with being safe than with being right?

To the OP, I wouldn't hold out much hope of getting much at all. Learn from it, and there are several lessons,
get the bike back on the road and get on with life. YMMV.

[Old Steve]

Shouldn't that read, " .... if they say no I guess I'll just have to go round a couple of times to where they park their car at night with a baseball bat."

But, yeah, get a quote and give it to them first before you get the bike fixed.

[jaffamont]

Fingers crossed for you. I hope they are not samoan.

What does being Samoan have to do with it?

[Woodman]

What does being Samoan have to do with it?

They drive on the other side of the road.

[superman]

First quote... drum roll pleeeeease.

$3.6k?!?!?!

:facepalm: Well the chance of me going through the disputes tribunal has just increased dramatically.

Why couldn't they just have had insurance! :angry: 3rd party should be the minimum to have a vehicle on the road.