Bath edge sealing strip

[F5 Dave]

OK so a question for the professional or uber DIYer:

I have a nightmare relationship with the edge of the bath to the wall of my shower/corner bath. It leaks when the water runs against it. I cleaned it up & applied some of that Red Devil brand sealing strip from M10. it leaked & peeled back over time. Heck I have some in the en-suite sink & it peels back all the time.

Ok so in a rage I rip it all off & clean the heck out of it with meths & all sorts & hit the edge with a cartridge of All Clear sealant. Sealed.

After several months it looks, well a bit like some sealant, however smooth I made it. So I clean the heck out of it & go find some more sealant strip. Hmm, only choice this suspect Red Devil stuff, but the slightly wider version. Take an age putting & pressing it on.

Looks pretty mint & I'm congratulating myself at taking the time to clean it properly & do a good job.

For about 2 months.
And the fucking useless shit still lifts, hell I had got it clean with meths & shit so it should bond to the bath & to the wall (which is a white plastic shower backing). Arseholes! So I get out the F2 glue & try to glue the bits down. Looks pants, sort of works. Every month the edge looks grimier with the glue residue etc.

In the garage the other day & hear; drip drip drip.

Fuck.


OK so is there another product I should be using? Something that might actually stay stuck for years?

[Grumph]

I thought you were buying Devcon in bulk ?

Sorry...irresistible.

[Haggis2]

I had a plumber mate and his builder bro redo my shower when I bought a new house. They used a white silicone sealer which looks good and is still like new 2 years later. I'll have a look and see if I can find out what it was. The only draw back is it is no good to paint over but it doesn't sound like that will worry you. I'll let you know if I can find out.

[slofox]

I'd probably go to a plumbing supplier and ask them.

[flyingcrocodile46]

You are very unlikely to get more than a temporary fix but there is a product made specifically for this issu. It is a two peice PVC bath mould.

Pretty sure placemakers will have them. See their guide
http://www.placemakers.co.nz/media/24116/22_Bathroom_Shower.pdf
Check out the right hand side of illustration 5 which shows a sketch of it.

It ain't perfect (does let water in if not installed perfectly) but is probably better than silicone by itself as it looks a lot better. Use silicone to seal the gap properly before you hide its ugliness with the 2 peice bath edge mould.

[boman]

I used Selleys, white Bathroom silicon sealer. 3 years, no leaks, looks like new.


Although it was new bath installation.

[unstuck]

I used windscreen sealer, looks like shit but works a bloody treat. Missus wants me to redo it though, it is on the around to it list.:girlfight:

[F5 Dave]

You are very unlikely to get more than a temporary fix but there is a product made specifically for this issu. It is a two peice PVC bath mould.

Pretty sure placemakers will have them. See their guide
http://www.placemakers.co.nz/media/24116/22_Bathroom_Shower.pdf
Check out the right hand side of illustration 5 which shows a sketch of it.

It ain't perfect (does let water in if not installed perfectly) but is probably better than silicone by itself as it looks a lot better. Use silicone to seal the gap properly before you hide its ugliness with the 2 peice bath edge mould.
from pdf:
"Two piece universal flashing allows the panel to be glued to the wall, running below the top of the bath"

, well the bath is fixed flush to the wall (gib) & a corner section of plastic about 5" tall & 5" left & right from a corner screwed & glued to the wall. So the only way water can get through is the join of the bath top (flat) & the plastic.

[Icemaestro]

+1 to the selley's no more gaps bathroom one, pink thing. bunnings I believe.

[jonbuoy]

Are you filling the bath with water before you seal it? They can flex and pull the seal away when filled with water and a big hairy arse.

[Zamiam]

Silaflex MS - smooth it using our finger BUT wear a latex glove otherwise the bugs/oils on your skin will cause it to go mouldy. Wet glove for smoother finish. Make sure you let it set properly. It's a flexible sealant as well. Nothing compares

[Coldrider]

Maxisila (really good for tiles) with the smoother additive, it is a hard case watching DIYers handling silicone sealers. The more it is played with, the worse it gets (not funny really).

[Laava]

Do not use No More Gaps or MS silicon. Ms is great but it is not designed for bathrooms. The best silicon to use is kitchen and bathroom sealant which you can get at ITM or similar. BUT your problem is that in general silicon does not like to be applied to silicon. Silicon is a good product but this is one of it's weak points.
You should post a photo?
Anyway, you are best to mechanically remove as much silicon as you can by scraping and using a scourer etc. You will notice that when you get it all off you then find out that there is still a thin layer left and then when you have that off there is a still thinner layer!
Don't despair! This is the time to put silicon remover on there and use as per instructions. It comes in a tube same as the silicon and should be readily avail. It is not great for removing bulky silicon hence the removing as much as poss first.
Then mask out and re-apply the bathroom and kitchen silicon taking care not to touch with your fingers as Zamiam said.
I use glad wrap, just pull abit out about 100mm and stick it over bath edge or hand basin. Then cut strip into 3 bits and just wrap a bit around end of finger like a condom. [Do NOT use as a condom!] Then you can wipe and just dab the whole thing off onto handy box or newspaper and start again with next bit. then you will get a nice finish that will last for a long time. I typically use about 6 bits to do the average bath edge.
It is a good idea to fill the bath with water if there is likely to be movement in relation to adjacent wall.

[Coldrider]

Do not use No More Gaps or MS silicon. Ms is great but it is not designed for bathrooms. The best silicon to use is kitchen and bathroom sealant which you can get at ITM or similar. BUT your problem is that in general silicon does not like to be applied to silicon. Silicon is a good product but this is one of it's weak points.
You should post a photo?
Anyway, you are best to mechanically remove as much silicon as you can by scraping and using a scourer etc. You will notice that when you get it all off you then find out that there is still a thin layer left and then when you have that off there is a still thinner layer!
Don't despair! This is the time to put silicon remover on there and use as per instructions. It comes in a tube same as the silicon and should be readily avail. It is not great for removing bulky silicon hence the removing as much as poss first.
Then mask out and re-apply the bathroom and kitchen silicon taking care not to touch with your fingers as Zamiam said.
I use glad wrap, just pull abit out about 100mm and stick it over bath edge or hand basin. Then cut strip into 3 bits and just wrap a bit around end of finger like a condom. [Do NOT use as a condom!] Then you can wipe and just dab the whole thing off onto handy box or newspaper and start again with next bit. then you will get a nice finish that will last for a long time. I typically use about 6 bits to do the average bath edge.
It is a good idea to fill the bath with water if there is likely to be movement in relation to adjacent wall.Good post, I apply the sealant from the applicator tip and spread with a iceblock stick (using the curve to press and shape) never touch with fingers. Trying to fill a too larger gap is a failure waiting to happen.

[Coldrider]

and using masking tape either side of the joints minimises the mess and spread of smear until you are dialled in.

[jonbuoy]

I use strong mix of washing up liquid and water in a tub and dip my fingers in it to stop the silicone/sikaflex sticking to them if I need to fair it over, maybe that's not the right way but it works for me.

[F5 Dave]

ahh, pictures, well I'm home now, so easier. try this

so here is the 'orrible sealing strip, which looks well smart when first applied. Note red hair dye damage, but its not mine.

Now I have got All Clear under it which isn't a silicon, its a polymer something or other. erm, here:


http://www.selleys.com.au/sealants/co-polymer/all-clear


and thanks for input so far,

[flyingcrocodile46]

ahh, pictures, well I'm home now, so easier. try this

so here is the 'orrible sealing strip, which looks well smart when first applied. Note red hair dye damage, but its not mine.

Now I have got All Clear under it which isn't a silicon, its a polymer something or other. erm, here:


http://www.selleys.com.au/sealants/co-polymer/all-clear


and thanks for input so far,

Looks like an installation upfuck to me. It appears that some type of bath flashing has been installed (you can see the soft/flexible edge of it) possibly even up behind the gib board, then the wall liner has been fitted with an end cap and placed hard down onto the edge of the bath flashing. (Very strange and obviously unsucessfull way to go). As a result you have 3 layers of gaps that are all potentially allowing water ingress. I really don't believe you will be able to stop it from leaking for more than a couple of months at a time and you would need to smother the full length of each gap line to do so (and that would look shit).

My advice would be to use a sharp chisel to cut and remove the sections of flashing and end cap (that are proud of the face of the wall liner). Then rebate a peice of H3 treated 6x1, chamfer the top back edge to provide a decent groove and key into which silicone can be applied and slope the top edge so water wont sit on it. Rebate the bottom back edge so it will sit 5mm above the bath edge. (If you don't leave a gap the mass of silicone will be insufficient to stretch and will lose adhesion) Give it a couple of coats of enamel paint front and back then apply silicone into the gap between the bath and the remains of the various trims (making sure they are well covered and sealed, then run a really fat bead along on top of that so when the 6x1 upstand is installed it will squeeze out the excess. See picture below. The left side sketch shows the construction that is likely existing and the right side shows the 6x 1 splash back (yellow is the silicone).

Yes, as others have said. Fill the bath before you seal and install the 6x1 splash back and use bath & Tile silicone.

Also when selecting the silicone read the instructions and buy and use the recomended sealant primer. 100% of sealants require primer on 95%+ of the materials which they claim they can stick to. Don't be suprised that the store doesn't have the primer and it has to be ordered in. They seldom ever carry them even though the manufacturers all recomend them.

http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg305/flyingcrocodile46/bath.jpg

[Laava]

I think you will have ongoing problems with this set up. If the seratonew or hardiglaze is very well glued to what ever is behind it and the actual wall lining feels solid, I would tile it. Cut the plastic cap mould off carefully, remove all fixtures and tile it putting a waterproof membrane on first down and onto the bath.
Not as expensive as you might think if you do it yourself.

[F5 Dave]

um a picture paints a thousand words. or can be deceiving.

So the wall is gib & the back of the shower is plastic. Not hardboard coated in plastic. Just a formed right angle white plastic section screwed & bonded to the gib. Its about 4mm thick. It comes down lower than the batch edge I think.

The PVC strip you see is not PVC

That is the Red Devil strip seal & is like a tape that folds with a right angle. I have All Cleared underneath that.


Here's the wankers product:



http://www.reddevil.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=865

or maybe it was the tube & wall one:

http://www.reddevil.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=861
(http://www.reddevil.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=865)

[Laava]

Looks like the acrylic bath panel has been fitted with push in "xmas tree" type fixings. WTF? I would be removing the plastic panel and tiling the whole wall to solve the problem. My 2c

[F5 Dave]

Hey I'm here to get opinions & ideas so appreciate the feedback.

The push in fixings: the round one above the strip? that is a plastic cover over the counter sunk screws. I don't think that is the issue.

Tiling; hmm, sounds like more work than I want to undertake, I have many more projects involving motorbikes. I don't think the Acrylic is leaking, just the interface to the bath.


I thought the Selleys all clear fixed the leak issue & well it did for a while, but it looked ugly. Maybe cut it off & try with caulking?

The sealing strip will come off easy enough, it was doing it by itself. Pity it didn't stick, as I said we have it on the ensuite sink & it keeps ungluing itself.

[flyingcrocodile46]

Is there a solid nog in the wall along the edge of the bath (to support the linings and eliminate excessive/any movement of the wall lining)? Try pushing against the wall lining (down at the bath edge) to see if there is any movement. If there is, then it won't matter what sort of lining you install (incl and especially tiles), you aren't going to get a serviceable seal. The wall lining needs to be rigid and so does the bath. If this is the case you need to either remove the bath and wall linings to install the nogs (then re-line it all properly) or (if the bath, but not wall is rigid) you could try installing something like ...... fuck it! it is all getting a bit too hard and dodgy. Burn the fucker down and start again :laugh:

[F5 Dave]

ok I'll got push on it tonight. and look up what a Nog is. hmm, ok, thank you wiki I think

[flyingcrocodile46]

ok I'll got push on it tonight. and look up what a Nog is. hmm, ok, thank you wiki I think

They are also called dwangs. A horizontal timber framing member that is installed/nailed between studs (they are the big vertical bits)

[F5 Dave]

dwang I would have got. dwang it!

[neels]

I had that stupid sealing strip at my house, ripped it off filled the bath with water and sealed the edge with almond coloured silicone to match the bath and tiles, looked a million times better than that poxy stuff peeling off.

When installing a bath and lining the gib should be removed behind the bath (ideally recessed into the framing about 10mm) so the gib can come down to the top edge, and the lining can overhang in front of the bath lip so you can seal behind it out of sight.

Probably your best bet there is to clean it all up and seal it with white bathroom sealant, I had to do the same thing a while back after seratone had been installed horizontal around a bath and then leaked like a sieve. Ripped the whole lot out tiled it and silicone sealed it to the remaining wallboard, the main thing is to make sure there is a gap for the sealant to go into so it's not just sitting on the surface.
262924

[F5 Dave]

yeah well I think that may be the only option. So it failed the push test. Bugger.

Hmm, time for a look, the corner bath is like a spa thingy & has panels in the front that are velcro'd on, so I pulled that back & it looks like a fibreglass bath (no surprise) that has an almost square profile & goes 2" parallel with the wall. But there is only a half hearted attempt at dwangs & they are 5mm clear of the edge of the bath. Even the Gib stops. Well that sucks.

[flyingcrocodile46]

yeah well I think that may be the only option. So it failed the push test. Bugger.

Hmm, time for a look, the corner bath is like a spa thingy & has panels in the front that are velcro'd on, so I pulled that back & it looks like a fibreglass bath (no surprise) that has an almost square profile & goes 2" parallel with the wall. But there is only a half hearted attempt at dwangs & they are 5mm clear of the edge of the bath. Even the Gib stops. Well that sucks.

The bathroom has a wooden floor doesn't it? Leaky bath = wet wall and floor framing and flooring which is likely starting to rot (depending on length of time and wetting frequency). How old is the house? If built between 95 and 2003 the framing is very likely untreated and can very easily and quickly rot out and loose half or more of it's structural integrity in as little as or even less than 12 months. Plus if the flooring is particle board there is a good chance that it has turned to weatbix.

Even treated framing will decay if it has been leaking for a few years or more.

I reiterate my advice to pull it apart so it can be properly assessed and fixed. If you can push the point of a 4 inch nail more than a few mm into the timber it is suspect (serious decay isn't always obviously visible). General rule of thumb is that you should cut out the suspect timber plus an extra metre of clearance along
the length of any continuous framing member that is decayed. :shutup:

[F5 Dave]

This section of the house was 68 (the rest was 86). I can get directly underneath with standing room so I might have a good looksee, but the floorboards I can see under the house are real wood, probably polishable. Only gets water on it when shower head misdirected, but I take your point & will go for a decent look.

[Brett]

I had a plumber mate and his builder bro redo my shower when I bought a new house. They used a white silicone sealer which looks good and is still like new 2 years later. I'll have a look and see if I can find out what it was. The only draw back is it is no good to paint over but it doesn't sound like that will worry you. I'll let you know if I can find out.

Use a silicon with an anit-mould/fungus agent...or (I don't know if this is possible in your situation...need a picture) make a mechanical seal, Ie go all exterior cladding on its are and make a flashing!