67 new Spitfires anyone?

[Timber020]

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2012/04/19/buried-treasure-in-burma-squadron-lost-wwii-spitfires-to-be-exhumed/?intcmp=obnetwork

Looks promising, supermarines for everyone!

[sil3nt]

Sounds promising. Nothing quite like the sound of a prop fighter.

[sinfull]

20 Will do even !

[unstuck]

I wonder weather or not they will still do 440mph. That would be such a great find. Good on the dude, I hope he gets them out.:woohoo:

[sinfull]

I wonder weather or not they will still do 440mph. That would be such a great find. Good on the dude, I hope he gets them out.:woohoo: Could have a bit to do with it, i mean a headwind would slow em down !

[Swoop]

Better ask Tim Wallis about what not to do when flying a Griffon engined one.


Hopefully they will be recovered. Almost as remarkable as the "Bahgdad Furies".

[Zedder]

It's certainly a great find.

A guy I know reckons there's a massive World War Two armaments dump (US Marines) somewhere north of Auckland to be discovered.

[5150]

Speaking of find, Does anyone know anything about the US Airforce B17 bomber that crashed west of Auckland in late 40's or early 50's on a flight from Auckland to Australia? Was it recovered and shipped of to US or Australia? was it repairable? Any info appreciated.

Thanks

[nudemetalz]

Better ask Tim Wallis about what not to do when flying a Griffon engined one.


Hopefully they will be recovered. Almost as remarkable as the "Bahgdad Furies".

Didn't he put the rudder the wrong way on take-off because he forgot the Griffon spins the prop to the left and the Merlin to the right.
I think that was a Mark XIV too that was put on it's back.

[Swoop]

Speaking of find, Does anyone know anything about the US Airforce B17 bomber that crashed west of Auckland in late 40's or early 50's on a flight from Auckland to Australia?
Done.
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~sooty/b17flyingfortress1942.html

Didn't he put the rudder the wrong way on take-off...
Torque roll. Been killing pilots for years.
One of his legs was already munted from a helicopter crash, so a bit more challenging on the rudder pedals!

[nudemetalz]

While we're at it,..let's look and listen to a bunch of Spitfires starting up......

Keep it in your trousers, lads !!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HbB9G3hAPk

[Zedder]

Music to my ears NM.

[ellipsis]

....not as exciting as 67 Spitfires, but eleven still to be assembled Norton 'Electric Start' Interstates were found in their wrappers in Holland or Germany recently...belonged to a motorcycle dealer from back in the seventies who died and his rellies found them in his lockup...

[5150]

Done.
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~sooty/b17flyingfortress1942.html

Torque roll. Been killing pilots for years.
One of his legs was already munted from a helicopter crash, so a bit more challenging on the rudder pedals!

Thanks for that Swoop

[Pussy]

One small problem in the construction of the Spitfire...
The rivets used have a high magnesium content. They don't last well. Unless the airframes were VERY well inhibited, they may not be in that greater condition.

[Zedder]

One small problem in the construction of the Spitfire...
The rivets used have a high magnesium content. They don't last well. Unless the airframes were VERY well inhibited, they may not be in that greater condition.

They'd burn well then. Sacrilege! Heresy!

[huff3r]

Are they being exhumed so as to be put back together for our Airforce's new fighter wing? :bleh:

[5150]

Are they being exhumed so as to be put back together for our Airforce's new fighter wing? :bleh:

Yup, to replace our "aging" Skyhawks :laugh:

[Kickaha]

Speaking of find, Does anyone know anything about the US Airforce B17 bomber that crashed west of Auckland in late 40's or early 50's on a flight from Auckland to Australia? Was it recovered and shipped of to US or Australia? was it repairable? Any info appreciated.

Thanks

Wasn't that all hush hush at the time as it had a Norden bomb sight onboard?

[Oblivion]

If only I could find myself a spitfire :no:

Apparently there are a lot of them buried under the sands in Egypt that are long gone.

[unstuck]

The yanks dumped so much stuff in the pacific, interesting article on million dollar point. http://www.cabinetmagazine.org/issues/10/million_point.php

[pzkpfw]

That's one of the interesting things about those Spitfires.

The American policy was that war material was pretty much written off when it left the factory. And they didn't want too much stuff back anyway as it would dent the markets (mentioned in that article).

The British, on the other hand, had to carefully account for the loss of every vehicle.

(In one book of N.Z. WWII recollections, a soldier describes with amazement watching Americans needing to cross a small ravine (I forget if this was in North Africa or Italy). He saw them drive three brand-new Jeeps into the ravine, on top of each other. Then a bulldozer pushed dirt all over them. Instant bridge.)

So they really were "over" piston engined planes to bury those planes.

(The article says to stop them falling into enemy hands, but also that it was 1945; so not sure how that adds up.)

[Pussy]

Didn't he put the rudder the wrong way on take-off because he forgot the Griffon spins the prop to the left and the Merlin to the right.
I think that was a Mark XIV too that was put on it's back.

Rudder TRIM!.....

[Pussy]

I'll hold back from getting too excited about it for now. A lot of corrosion can happen in 67 years....

[Paul in NZ]

I'll hold back from getting too excited about it for now. A lot of corrosion can happen in 67 years....

It really doesnt matter. All they really need is are the ID plates or the crumbling remains of the plates etc

Rebuilding these planes to flyable condition is a HUGE task involving virtually remaking the entire plane regardless of the condition. The big deal is that these will be genuine WW2 units despite not seeing active service and thus will be highly sought after.

[pzkpfw]

Planes have been re-built from being shot down and crashing into swamps; dug out of the muck 50 years later.

It may be a bit grandfathers' axe (three new heads and two new handles, but still his axe) but surely pulling these things out of packing crates will give 'em a good start.

[jellywrestler]

so if they've keyholed down to them and taken photos why aren't there any photos of them released?

[Kendog]

Do Spitfires fly in any NZ air shows?
Or any air shows anywhere?

[Swoop]

Do Spitfires fly in any NZ air shows?
Or any air shows anywhere?
Yes.

&

Yes.

[nudemetalz]

Rudder TRIM!.....
Ooops sorry Johnny boy...I meant to put TRIM in there..... :innocent:


have a read of this....fascinating stuff for you Spitty enthusiasts out there...

http://www.spitfireperformance.com/spit14afdu.html

[sugilite]

I remember reading about farmers being offered corsairs for 40 lb's after the war, to be used for parts n scrap. This was in NZ.

[SPman]

Spitfires buried 40 feet under a Burmese airport for 70 yrs - I don't care how good they were when buried - 70 yrs of wet soggy soil and weight will have reduced them to piles of corroded/rusted/crushed metal fit only for data plate rebuilds! That's if there is actually anything there.
Fast becoming a farce, this story.

Much more interesting is the 260 Squadron P40E-1 found in the Egyptian desert by a survey team last month.

http://www.konradus.com/forum/read.php?f=13&i=7154&t=7154&filtr=0&page=1

(http://www.konradus.com/forum/read.php?f=13&i=7154&t=7154&filtr=0&page=1)https://picasaweb.google.com/114682566226043469349/Zdj_samolot?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCKjxkt6rkNTFKg&feat=directlink#5734875864583924978

[Kickaha]

I remember reading about farmers being offered corsairs for 40 lb's after the war, to be used for parts n scrap. This was in NZ.

I've seen the photos of Mosqutios at Ashburton that were sold for scrap for bugger all, pillaged for all the metal and what was left was burnt

[Pussy]

When the RNZAF flogged off the P-51s in 1958, the cost of buying one, and transporting it to Springfield, was 98 squid.
The "Mobil" Mustang that flew in NZ for a while was the mentioned machine. CCG was its rego. It still flies in the US as "Cripes Amighty 3rd".

[Swoop]

Much more interesting is the 260 Squadron P40E-1 found in the Egyptian desert by a survey team last month.
Bugger me. That is in fantastic condition! (OK, engine might run a bit rough though...).
Hopefully it is recovered before idiots get to it.

[awa355]

My father told me years ago, that when Japan surrended, American freighters sailing to NZ and Auss loaded with brand new GMC trucks, jeeps, cars, industrial engines etc were told to dump the lot over the sides. Apparently, the powers that were, decided there was no call for more war supplies and there was already a surplus of machinery that no one could afford.

[Kickaha]

My father told me years ago, that when Japan surrended, American freighters sailing to NZ and Auss loaded with brand new GMC trucks, jeeps, cars, industrial engines etc were told to dump the lot over the sides. Apparently, the powers that were, decided there was no call for more war supplies and there was already a surplus of machinery that no one could afford.

Something along the lines of Million dollar point
http://www.cabinetmagazine.org/issues/10/million_point.php
http://www.pacificislandtravel.com/vanuatu/diving/milliondollarpoint.html

[Coldrider]

I've seen the photos of Mosqutios at Ashburton that were sold for scrap for bugger all, pillaged for all the metal and what was left was burntThe mozzies were made of wood.

[SPman]

Bugger me. That is in fantastic condition! (OK, engine might run a bit rough though...).
Hopefully it is recovered before idiots get to it.
I believe the RAF museum is already in talks with the Egyptians and the Poles who found it......

[unstuck]

Do Spitfires fly in any NZ air shows?
Or any air shows anywhere?

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/PAeEGPIIitg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> I was working up in the lindis pass one day and one of theses did a low fly over my digger and I think I may of shit, just a little bit though.:innocent:

[5150]

Wasn't that all hush hush at the time as it had a Norden bomb sight onboard?

From what I have read and heard it wasn't published for few mnths afterward, and the wreck misteriously dissapeared. hence my querry if anyone knew what happened to it afterward. there is not much about it on the net

[Katman]

I was working up in the lindis pass one day and one of theses did a low fly over my digger and I think I may of shit, just a little bit though.:innocent:

Like this guy?

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/hvDDDKnNhuE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[unstuck]

Ha ha, not quite so low, but very loud. I thought it was a train coming, but there is no railway up there.:shit:

[Swoop]

From what I have read and heard it wasn't published for few mnths afterward, and the wreck misteriously dissapeared. hence my querry if anyone knew what happened to it afterward. there is not much about it on the net
Possibly whatever remained of the crash debris may have been pushed into the dump that was off the end of RW08.
I will make further enquiries as I have work to do over there soon.

[5150]

Possibly whatever remained of the crash debris may have been pushed into the dump that was off the end of RW08.
I will make further enquiries as I have work to do over there soon.

That would be great :niceone:

[Swoop]

That would be great :niceone:
Righto...
Had a good long chat with a bloke who can take me to the exact location of the crash! Off the end of the main runway towards Kumeu. Went up with a massive explosion and the remains were very small after the fire. A fully fuelled plane kind of burns a lot.
Various rumours about the "cargo" on board (japanese P.o.W's, US vice-president, etc, etc) and LOTS of secrecy afterwards.

Remember that the area was sparsely populated in those times, so not many around to witness the happenings, even then.

I do now have a couple of extra contacts...

[pzkpfw]

A fully fuelled plane kind of burns a lot.

Go find a B29 in the ice. Fix it to flying condition, then start it up...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tJb-bmgBC0

So sad.

[GSF]

Go find a B29 in the ice. Fix it to flying condition, then start it up...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tJb-bmgBC0

So sad.

I read the book those guys wrote, broke my heart. Poor ole Kee Bird :bye:

On a related note, there's an old chap out in Drury restoring a Mosquito.

http://www.mosquitorestoration.com/

I rang him up one day and he's happy for people to come around and have a look, I'm going to head out there one day. My dad lived in a small coastal town in Holland in the 1970s and his landlady was an old woman whose husband was executed by the Germans for using a radio to listen to BBC Free Europe broadcasts. They had a radio they used in conjunction with local resistance to inform Bomber Command of the locations of AA guns in the area, and BC would send the Mossies in at night to hit the local U-Boat pen. Formations of Mossies would come blasting across the English Channel skimming the wavetops, then barrel down the local canal before skipping bombs into the pen. Apparently the only warning you'd have would be the roar of a Mossie pilot going vertical on full throttle after releasing bombs, then the sound of bombs smashing into the concrete pen. Those guys had balls of steel.

[nudemetalz]

Go find a B29 in the ice. Fix it to flying condition, then start it up...

So sad.

They even had a little trouble with a too soft a runway when landing the Caribou at the Kee Bird site.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVh8BQeFt9c

[Timber020]

Go find a B29 in the ice. Fix it to flying condition, then start it up...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tJb-bmgBC0

So sad.

A really moving documentry. Tough guys, sacrificed so much, Pulled off the impossible.....and then....

[Woodman]

Theres a Mosquito somewhere near Motueka that was brought as war surplus and slowly put together. Pretty sure it has never ever flown. cool planes.

[Pussy]

Theres a Mosquito somewhere near Motueka that was brought as war surplus and slowly put together. Pretty sure it has never ever flown. cool planes.

It was flown out from England. Has a grand total of about 86 hours in its logbooks. Have visited and sat in this aircraft many times. It's complete apart from the armament. The mainspar had to be cut to transport it. The wood is in reasonable nick, but the glue is knackered. They weren't meant to last!

[nudemetalz]

It was flown out from England. Has a grand total of about 86 hours in its logbooks. Have visited and sat in this aircraft many times. It's complete apart from the armament. The mainspar had to be cut to transport it. The wood is in reasonable nick, but the glue is knackered. They weren't meant to last!


I heard a story once that WW2 surplus RR Merlins from Mossies and Mustangs (prob Spits too) here in NZ were sold to farmers for not a lot of coin.

They used to mount a number of them in the fields and start them every morning (props and all).
These were used to dry out the dew on crops !!!!!!! :eek:

...and errr how much are Merlins worth now..... ???:facepalm:

[jim.cox]

The mainspar had to be cut to transport it.

That seems to have been pretty common - the one at Ferrymead is likewise - pretty much guarantees it wont fly again - sniff

[carburator]

I read the book those guys wrote, broke my heart. Poor ole Kee Bird :bye:

On a related note, there's an old chap out in Drury restoring a Mosquito.

http://www.mosquitorestoration.com/

I rang him up one day and he's happy for people to come around and have a look, I'm going to head out there one day. My dad lived in a small coastal town in Holland in the 1970s and his landlady was an old woman whose husband was executed by the Germans for using a radio to listen to BBC Free Europe broadcasts. They had a radio they used in conjunction with local resistance to inform Bomber Command of the locations of AA guns in the area, and BC would send the Mossies in at night to hit the local U-Boat pen. Formations of Mossies would come blasting across the English Channel skimming the wavetops, then barrel down the local canal before skipping bombs into the pen. Apparently the only warning you'd have would be the roar of a Mossie pilot going vertical on full throttle after releasing bombs, then the sound of bombs smashing into the concrete pen. Those guys had balls of steel.

He's been at it a long time, Pioneer are doing the tanks for Avspecs one, then if steve is not over them
he probably will do the tanks for the dury plane. not a easy tanks to make..

as some said earlier the data plate is the value, take white one sitting in a container at ardmore
its the heratige that makes her valueble, the p40E avspec finished last year ( reproduction ) is stunning
but does'nt have all the extra rib and spars to mount the real guns , ok so what some might argue

I can honestly say a p40 with six 50cals even with BFA adapters firing blanks is puts a horn on a jellyfish...
[URL="http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Pioneer-Aero-Ltd/145146258840757"[/URL]

[5150]

Cool documentary. And a sad fact at the end.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptijNcDanVw


My great great uncle use to be none other then Stanislaw Skalski. He made General and was one of the highest scorring Polish fighter pilots in the Polish Air Force during WW2. He was fighting in Battle of Britan, then fought in Turkey and Italy. Have a read about Skalski Circus on Wiki. The guy got equivelant of 2 Purple Hearts and numerous other medals for bravery. He died in 2004.

[Swoop]

pretty much guarantees it wont fly again - sniff
Not really. New components are manufactured all the time and the development of that technique/process aids in the restoration of others.

as some said earlier the data plate is the value..
I know a chap who has a mossie data plate sitting in his desk drawer. Quite proud of it he is!

Stanislaw Skalski. He made General and was one of the highest scorring Polish fighter pilots in the Polish Air Force during WW2.
The Polish pilots are an interesting breed. Brave as all buggery and certainly a group you would want fighting on your side in WWII.

[Woodman]

Cool documentary. And a sad fact at the end.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptijNcDanVw


My great great uncle use to be none other then Stanislaw Skalski. He made General and was one of the highest scorring Polish fighter pilots in the Polish Air Force during WW2. He was fighting in Battle of Britan, then fought in Turkey and Italy. Have a read about Skalski Circus on Wiki. The guy got equivelant of 2 Purple Hearts and numerous other medals for bravery. He died in 2004.

very good, thanks for that. Not a great way to treat your heroes aye?

[5150]

Not really. New components are manufactured all the time and the development of that technique/process aids in the restoration of others.

I know a chap who has a mossie data plate sitting in his desk drawer. Quite proud of it he is!

The Polish pilots are an interesting breed. Brave as all buggery and certainly a group you would want fighting on your side in WWII.

Yes. They fought with their hearts and they hated Germans like nothing else. It is true, that the reason they were shooting down so many German planes was because Brits aimed for the planes, while Poles were aiming for the pilots inside them

[5150]

very good, thanks for that. Not a great way to treat your heroes aye?

Brits didn't want them afterwards, while Poland locked them up for "espionage", even tho they were still fighting the Germans.

[Zedder]

Cool documentary. And a sad fact at the end.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptijNcDanVw


My great great uncle use to be none other then Stanislaw Skalski. He made General and was one of the highest scorring Polish fighter pilots in the Polish Air Force during WW2. He was fighting in Battle of Britan, then fought in Turkey and Italy. Have a read about Skalski Circus on Wiki. The guy got equivelant of 2 Purple Hearts and numerous other medals for bravery. He died in 2004.

Great, but sad, documentary alright 5150 thanks.

I didn't know much about Stanislaw Skalski until now but he was obviously an amazing person. He and others like him from those war years were heros in the true sense of the word.

[5150]

Great, but sad, documentary alright 5150 thanks.

I didn't know much about Stanislaw Skalski until now but he was obviously an amazing person. He and others like him from those war years were heros in the true sense of the word.

Here you are, some interesting reading :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanis%C5%82aw_Skalski

[Swoop]

Cool documentary. And a sad fact at the end.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptijNcDanVw
Thanks for posting that. Very interesting!
Impressive results and shooting down a German squadron's worth of aircraft in 15 minutes is bloody good work in any squadron's books!

Have you read "Tummult in the Sky" by J. Goodson? The Poles who escaped to America went through training there and returned to England to fight.

[5150]

Thanks for posting that. Very interesting!
Impressive results and shooting down a German squadron's worth of aircraft in 15 minutes is bloody good work in any squadron's books!

Have you read "Tummult in the Sky" by J. Goodson? The Poles who escaped to America went through training there and returned to England to fight.

No I haven't but thanks for the heads up. I will find the book and read it. There is also a book on the 303 Squadron written by Arkady Fiedler. There is a free translation of it (Ebook) on the web you can download in pdf form. It pretty much follows the 303 Squadron dairy.

The best and funniest "kill" I read about as far as 303 SQ goes was when one of the pilots was chasing a German Bf109 at treetop level. When he caught up to it he realised that he ran out of ammo. So instead of returning to base, he caught up and flew right above the Bf109, so close infact that the German pilot could touch the underside of the Hurracane. The German pilot fraked out and instinctively reduced altitude to avoid collision and crashed his Bf109 into the trees.

Now that stunt requires some big stones. :shit:

[oneofsix]

Great, but sad, documentary alright 5150 thanks.

I didn't know much about Stanislaw Skalski until now but he was obviously an amazing person. He and others like him from those war years were heros in the true sense of the word.

+1.

Thanks for that 5150.

Whilst the Poles often get a mention in movies like The Battle of Britain the cinema tends towards an impression that the war started with the invasion of France, forgetting it was declared with the invasion of Poland. I guess this is in part because of the 'Allies' turned their backs on Poland at the end.

[Zedder]

Here you are, some interesting reading :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanis%C5%82aw_Skalski

Great stuff. I first heard of him when I was reading about RAF 501 squadron which was the last to leave France in 1940.

Incidently, I've come across a photo said to be of the crashed B-17 at Whenuapai in 1942. Check out this link (you'll have to type it in): http://rnzaf.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=Wartime&action=display&thread=6509

Also there's a C-87 Liberator shown.

The B-17 was loaded with four 500lb bombs, two of which blew up. Acccording to other info I've read, there was a Norden bomb sight on board as well but it was recovered.

The farmer whose paddock it crashed in (Mr Sinton) obtained souvenirs as did an RNZAF mechanic.

[5150]

Great stuff. I first heard of him when I was reading about RAF 501 squadron which was the last to leave France in 1940.

Incidently, I've come across a photo said to be of the crashed B-17 at Whenuapai in 1942. Check out this link (you'll have to type it in): http://rnzaf.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=Wartime&action=display&thread=6509

Also there's a C-87 Liberator shown.

The B-17 was loaded with four 500lb bombs, two of which blew up. Acccording to other info I've read, there was a Norden bomb sight on board as well but it was recovered.

The farmer whose paddock it crashed in (Mr Sinton) obtained souvenirs as did an RNZAF mechanic.

Thanks for the link :niceone:

[Zedder]

Thanks for the link :niceone:

No problem. I see the link came up properly, it was saved to My Documents and didn't work first time.

Have you had a look at Aviation Archaeology.com? It's full of fascinating discoveries and info.

[5150]

No problem. I see the link came up properly, it was saved to My Documents and didn't work first time.

Have you had a look at Aviation Archaeology.com? It's full of fascinating discoveries and info.

Yes, I had a look there few times. I also visit Airliners.net for great aviation related stories and photos.

[Zedder]

Yes, I had a look there few times. I also visit Airliners.net for great aviation related stories and photos.

Yep, Airliners.net is all good.

[5150]

Yep, Airliners.net is all good.

I also visit The Aviation Herald on daily basis. Its up to date on current incidents and accidents in commercial aviation throughout the world. Pretty much up to minute updates as well.

[Zedder]

I also visit The Aviation Herald on daily basis. Its up to date and current incidents and accidents in commercial aviation throughout the world. Pretty much up to minute updates as well.

I just had my first look at it. Very interesting, thanks.

[Bass]

For any who may be interested Avtech/Avspecs (I can never remember which is which - they're side by side out at Ardmore) have been building a Mossie from scratch. Absolutely superb workmanship and estimated test flights about October this year. I've been watching it come together for a couple of years now. It will go to the States soon after completion - Florida I think.
They have orders for six of them I believe
They don't mind visitors either, if you ask nicely and don't touch

[unstuck]

I used to mow the grass at whenuapai air force base and the old bloke who I worked for was telling me something about that B-17 crash, damn I wish I would of paid more attention.:facepalm:

[Swoop]

For any who may be interested Avtech/Avspecs
Avspecs.

http://www.mosquitorestoration.com/index.shtml

[5150]

just found this doco. Very sad to see these once great aircraft rotting away like this :(

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UDLnjh9Y0M&feature=g-vrec

[GSF]

Just came across this piece this morning, great read.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2143592/My-Uncle-Denis-pilot-plane-time-forgot-First-pictures-man-crash-landed-plane-Sahara-walked-sands-death.html

Very sad and slightly spooky tale, especially considering how the poor bastard just vanished into the desert. Plane is in amazing condition, it would be a real tribute to the pilot if his old warhorse can be brought out of the desert and restored to an airworthy condition.

[Woodman]

makes you wonder how much other stuff is out their to be found aye.

Fascinating

[pzkpfw]

makes you wonder how much other stuff is out their to be found aye.

Fascinating

Just in N.Z. there's a fairly long list of planes that went down but were never found.

[SPman]

For any who may be interested Avtech/Avspecs (I can never remember which is which - they're side by side out at Ardmore) have been building a Mossie from scratch. The fuselage shell and main wing were built by "the old chap out at Drury" - Glyn Powell and his mates.

[240]

Gott in Himmel!!! I see zee Englanders recover 67 Spitfuers! zis is goot! as I have just discovered 67 messerscmitt me109s and we will be able to set the record straight over ze var.
Everybody knows that ze English schwein cheated last time as at least half of zer planes were offside and also ze ref was biased.

[5150]

Gott in Himmel!!! I see zee Englanders recover 67 Spitfuers! zis is goot! as I have just discovered 67 messerscmitt me109s and we will be able to set the record straight over ze var.
Everybody knows that ze English schwein cheated last time as at least half of zer planes were offside and also ze ref was biased.

Rematch?:killingme

[unstuck]

Die Briten immer besser zu bauen, yeah right.:msn-wink:

[pzkpfw]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_World_Wars_and_One_World_Cup