Simon Crafar on electronic assistance

[onearmedbandit]

Yup it's essentially an ad for the new GSXR thou, and some may say it's making excuses for the lack of electronic intervention on the new bike. But I think the message behind it is a good one.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/bXU2PwNqe-4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[sil3nt]

The sooner motogp and wsbk get rid of TC the better.

[Crasherfromwayback]

. But I think the message behind it is a good one.



Me too. Fuck traction control. If you can't control a GSXR1000, don't buy one.

[HenryDorsetCase]

but the point is any munter with $20k and my skill level can (and do) buy those bikes. And 200hp near enough at the rear wheel if you arent Crafar-good is a liability nightmare.

My question is: is he related to the Crafars of Crafar farms (in)famy? He'd have to be, right?

[Crasherfromwayback]

but the point is any munter with $20k and my skill level can (and do) buy those bikes. And 200hp near enough at the rear wheel if you arent Crafar-good is a liability nightmare.

My question is: is he related to the Crafars of Crafar farms (in)famy? He'd have to be, right?

Not really mate. A GSXR1000 is actually a pussy cat until you try and ride it in anger. Then it gets 'interesting'.

I would doubt it.

[5150]

A GSXR1000 is actually a pussy cat until you try and ride it in anger. Then it gets 'interesting'.

I think the issue is trying to explain that to a 250cc learner (Rossi/Stoner wannabe)

Especially when as soon as they pick up a full license in their hot little hand and immidately go to a dealer and want to purchase a Litre sports bike without giving any thought to the consequences of the hp and torque difference.

[Crasherfromwayback]

I think the issue is trying to explain that to a 250cc learner (Rossi/Stoner wannabe)

Especially when as soon as they pick up a full license in their hot little hand and immidately go to a dealer and want to purchase a Litre sports bike without giving any thought to the consequences of the hp and torque difference.

I hear ya. I had to take one for ride on the back of a GSXR1000 once to 'illustrate' what I was getting at.

Wasn't so keen then.

[Zedder]

Thanks for that onearmedbandit.

The "mind behind the throttle" is where its at.

[george formby]

I think the issue is trying to explain that to a 250cc learner (Rossi/Stoner wannabe)

Especially when as soon as they pick up a full license in their hot little hand and immidately go to a dealer and want to purchase a Litre sports bike without giving any thought to the consequences of the hp and torque difference.

Or an empty nester with cash to burn wanting to relive their yoof. I've had a crack on a Fireblade & yeah, no, no thanks. I was laying skidmarks in 3rd & had to wear the same pair of undies for the whole day.

[GrayWolf]

but the point is any munter with $20k and my skill level can (and do) buy those bikes. And 200hp near enough at the rear wheel if you arent Crafar-good is a liability nightmare.


Not really mate. A GSXR1000 is actually a pussy cat until you try and ride it in anger. Then it gets 'interesting'..


I think the issue is trying to explain that to a 250cc learner (Rossi/Stoner wannabe)

Especially when as soon as they pick up a full license in their hot little hand and immidately go to a dealer and want to purchase a Litre sports bike without giving any thought to the consequences of the hp and torque difference.

These three posts are exactly why there should be a stepped licence system in place (as in Europe) HDC is correct we all know and many of us did/have, leapt from 250 to 1000cc. I will say this again.. the 1000cc rockets of my day are slower than a modern 600cc. The bikes have evolved but the loon holding the throttle is still the same one as when I was a teenager. The Human being evolves over thousands of years not a few decades. The bikes (1litre+) are now faster than we can react in a reasonable fashion.

GSX1000 etc may well be a 'pussy' untill used in anger... again that depends on the loon on the throttle... and lets be honest its IS the "I want this years model as its 2 kilo lighter and 1.5 HP more powerful" testosterone and ego driven brigade, that keep the sales of sprot bikes rocking along. I agree about losing TC etc from vehicles ALL vehicles.. lets be honest they may well save your life... HOWEVER it also encourages a mental attitude of... do what ever ya like, the computer will sort it out for you.
The only way to prevent learners from leaping onto high power machines IS to legislate with licence (power/cc) stepping.

[Oblivion]

If you can't ride a motorcycle without all of these fancy electronic aids helping you, then something is seriously wrong. Electronic aids on a motorcycle cant save you from your own stupidity.

[Crasherfromwayback]

. The bikes (1litre+) are now faster than we can react in a reasonable fashion.

GSX1000 etc may well be a 'pussy' untill used in anger... again that depends on the loon on the throttle... and lets be honest its IS the "I want this years model as its 2 kilo lighter and 1.5 HP more powerful" testosterone and ego driven brigade, that keep the sales of sprot bikes rocking along. .

While that may well be so...the old bikes weighed as fucking ton and took forever to stop. I went from my KR250 tandem twin to a near new GPZ1100 uni track. 12HP in the day, and 10 sec 1/4 miles. So still a reasonably fast bike. But it had sngle piston sliding calipers on non floating discs, and weighed 255kgs DRY!. It had a hinge in the middle of the frame.

So it's all relative. In a lot of ways, the new ones are considerably safer comapred to back in the day.

[Crasherfromwayback]

If you can't ride a motorcycle without all of these fancy electronic aids helping you, then something is seriously wrong. Electronic aids on a motorcycle cant save you from your own stupidity.

Correct!!!!

[bogan]

If you can't ride a motorcycle without all of these fancy electronic aids helping you, then something is seriously wrong. Electronic aids on a motorcycle cant save you from your own stupidity.

Funny you should say that, cos isn't that the whole idea behind traction control? "Stupid rider want to put how much torque down now :gob: don't be silly!"

The problem with rider/driver aids, is they are generally treated with ignorance, relying on TC to save your ass in more and more situations while ignoring that it has to do so, will lead to a big accident! Its an aid, learn to work with it. You wouldn't ride a modern thou on 40 year old tyre technology, why make such a big deal about other traction aids?

[GrayWolf]

While that may well be so...the old bikes weighed as fucking ton and took forever to stop. I went from my KR250 tandem twin to a near new GPZ1100 uni track. 12HP in the day, and 10 sec 1/4 miles. So still a reasonably fast bike. But it had sngle piston sliding calipers on non floating discs, and weighed 255kgs DRY!. It had a hinge in the middle of the frame.

So it's all relative. In a lot of ways, the new ones are considerably safer comapred to back in the day.

Some modern bikes are just as heavy as that GPZ1100 unitrack. Some are heavier and considerably faster. 12hp?? Errr 120hp, haha!!
And mate I had big Zeds back then and I will challenge proof of a 10 second 1/4 with a standard bike,,, that is claiming quicker than a V max over the strip,,, and a GPZ1100 was not quicker than my ZX10 or the ZL1000 eliminator after it. and the ZL was high 10's.< and slower over the 1/4 than a Max, but quicker to 50mph (V boost cut in then).
The FJ1200 sitting in my garage is 'comparable' for weight (heavier actually) and power.. that's a low 11's standing 1/4 and I think the GSX1100E/F air oil cooled was around 11.2 ish
As for a hinged frame?? After an H1-500a... NOTHING has a hinge :laugh::bleh:

yes I agree the bikes themselves may be 'safer' for frame/brake/tyre etc technology.. but as I pointed out the loon on the throttle hasn't changed, which goes a long way to mitigating those improvements.. and the increases in top speed and acceleration kind of mitigate the rest.

[Pussy]

The fact that the L2 1000 DOESN'T have TC makes it more appealing to me.
Called in to see Simon's ex brother-in-law today (Russell Josiah.. good bastard!).
Simon is related to the "famous" Crafars. It's quite a big family. He too is a good bastard!

[5150]

I hear ya. I had to take one for ride on the back of a GSXR1000 once to 'illustrate' what I was getting at.

Wasn't so keen then.

That's not you by any chance demoing a bike? :laugh:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Hw_0-fRR4Q&feature=g-vrec

[Crasherfromwayback]

Some modern bikes are just as heavy as that GPZ1100 unitrack. Some are heavier and considerably faster. 12hp?? Errr 120hp, haha!!
And mate I had big Zeds back then and I will challenge proof of a 10 second 1/4 with a standard bike,,, that is claiming quicker than a V max over the strip,,, and a GPZ1100 was not quicker than my ZX10 or the ZL1000 eliminator after it. and the ZL was high 10's.< and slower over the 1/4 than a Max, but quicker to 50mph (V boost cut in then).
.

Sorry. 128HP.

I still have the Cycle World mag with the test. Pee Wee Gleason ran a 10.98 on a stock GPZ1100, it was the second stock Kawasaki to run a 10 sec 1/4 after the same man ran one with the 750 Turbo.

I still have a slip somewhere from me running a 10.75 at the timed sprints in Carterton years ago. Although mine was fitted with a 1170 Wiseco big bore kit and a trick 4-1. I also ran a 9.3 whilst in Australia on my Z1RTC using 20lbs boost and water injection. So I do know about hingy frames!263009

[Big Dave]

If you can't ride a motorcycle without all of these fancy electronic aids helping you, then something is seriously wrong. Electronic aids on a motorcycle cant save you from your own stupidity.

ABS would have saved my bacon last off. I'd also use traction control in the stinking wet.

It's 'when' there is something seriously wrong - even if you can ride a motorcycle - that they are worth having.

You get a SMIDSY on a wet road and you have to pin the throttle immediately on a 180 horsepower unit - it only takes a fraction of a second to get ugly - highside ugly - I'll take the help thanks.

And yes - If you are dufus and they are the only way you can stay upright on a ride to the shop - you're on the wrong bike already.

[GrayWolf]

Sorry. 128HP.

I still have the Cycle World mag with the test. Pee Wee Gleason ran a 10.98 on a stock GPZ1100, it was the second stock Kawasaki to run a 10 sec 1/4 after the same man ran one with the 750 Turbo.

I still have a slip somewhere from me running a 10.75 at the timed sprints in Carterton years ago. Although mine was fitted with a 1170 Wiseco big bore kit and a trick 4-1. I also ran a 9.3 whilst in Australia on my Z1RTC using 20lbs boost and water injection. So I do know about hingy frames!

pee wee gleason.... of course :facepalm::facepalm: Ok I'll accept that in this case.. but put my fat arse on it??? Yehhhh riiiiight!!!!

[MIXONE]

As for a hinged frame?? After an H1-500a... NOTHING has a hinge :laugh::bleh:

.

They didn't have a hinge.They had the whole fucking gate!:shit:

[Mental Trousers]

That's not you by any chance demoing a bike? :laugh:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Hw_0-fRR4Q&feature=g-vrec

James Whitham. It's an amusing piece that.

[5150]

:laugh:
James Whitham. It's an amusing piece that.

Every bike salespersons nightmare

[jonbuoy]

ABS would have saved my bacon last off. I'd also use traction control in the stinking wet.

It's 'when' there is something seriously wrong - even if you can ride a motorcycle - that they are worth having.

You get a SMIDSY on a wet road and you have to pin the throttle immediately on a 180 horsepower unit - it only takes a fraction of a second to get ugly - highside ugly - I'll take the help thanks.

And yes - If you are dufus and they are the only way you can stay upright on a ride to the shop - you're on the wrong bike already.

+1 first commute in the rain after a dryspell ABS and TCS would be a godsend, not to mention diesel spills, cowshit, loose seal. Long as its got an off setting its all good.

[rastuscat]

That's not you by any chance demoing a bike? :laugh:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Hw_0-fRR4Q&feature=g-vrec

Laugh du jour, well posted dude

[rastuscat]

+1 first commute in the rain after a dryspell ABS and TCS would be a godsend, not to mention diesel spills, cowshit, loose seal. Long as its got an off setting its all good.

New rear tyre fitted recently. Right hand corner 9km later would have been far less "interesting" with TC.

Got a degree of satisfaction from controlling it myself, but my bad for the schoolboy slip in the first place. Didn't think my terribly civilized F800ST had the torque to slip the rear on a moderate lean.

Ah well, can't be a real KBer, I don't know everything, and I still have stuff to learn.

[Crasherfromwayback]

New rear tyre fitted recently. Right hand corner 9km later would have been far less "interesting" with TC.

.

Yeah but TC won't save your arse if you simply just tip it in too quick.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Some modern bikes are just as heavy as that GPZ1100 unitrack. Some are heavier and considerably faster. 12hp?? Errr 120hp, haha!!
And mate I had big Zeds back then and I will challenge proof of a 10 second 1/4 with a standard bike,,, that is claiming quicker than a V max over the strip,,, and a GPZ1100 was not quicker than my ZX10 or the ZL1000 eliminator after it. .

Thought it was Cycle World. But it was Cycle mag. And I thought it was 10.93 by Pee Wee, but in actual fact...a 10.91 by the mags tester. Pee Wee ran a 10.8. Ah well...not too bad purely from a very old/worn out memory! Here ya go...263030263029

[Cleve]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXU2PwNqe-4&feature=youtu.be

[DidJit]

Check out his body position... Obviously hasn't done CSS. :msn-wink:

[CHOPPA]

Check out his body position... Obviously hasn't done CSS. :msn-wink:

Na he is old school! From the bits that I have heard from about his book is that he does things a bit different. Im gonna have a good read when I get a chance, it obviously works.

[DidJit]

... From the bits that I have heard from about his book is that he does things a bit different. ...

Likewise. Complete opposite in some cases (which doesn't make sense). Guess I'll have to check it out properly to form an informed opinion...

[nadroj]

How long will it be before we have to do a session in a simulator before we can get a licence?

Having the electronics is only an aid and shouldn't be relied on exclusively.

[MOTOXXX]

Na he is old school! From the bits that I have heard from about his book is that he does things a bit different. Im gonna have a good read when I get a chance, it obviously works.

you want a copy of the motovodo video? i downloaded it a couple months ago.

[CHOPPA]

you want a copy of the motovodo video? i downloaded it a couple months ago.

haha id like to say yes but I saw a post from him on Facebook quite upset about people getting it for free when he put in so much work so ill save my pennys :)

[Mental Trousers]

you want a copy of the motovodo video? i downloaded it a couple months ago.


haha id like to say yes but I saw a post from him on Facebook quite upset about people getting it for free when he put in so much work so ill save my pennys :)

Unlike the traditional record/video model that made media moguls extremely rich, useless fat c***s Motovudu is made and distributed by the people who should get the Lion's share, the people who actually did all the work - Simon Crafar and Banter Media.

It's $70.00 for the book + DVD. Not a bad price and hardly likely to break the bank. I'm sure that downloading a sample is ok if you buy the real deal later on.

[MOTOXXX]

for sure, i like to try before i buy and have a copy on order

[Mental Trousers]

Na he is old school! From the bits that I have heard from about his book is that he does things a bit different. Im gonna have a good read when I get a chance, it obviously works.

It's different alright. The first thing he does is a Myth Busters bit that many will find controversial but the further into the video you get the more it makes sense. He explains things from a riders point of view. He even explains backing in and the current fad of waving a leg around on entry in a straight forward and clear fashion.

It's good cos he explains things as riders do, body english and hand waving.

He's an intelligent guy who has spent years analyzing things and figuring out how to go fast without getting hurt and now he's put it all into a book and video.

[Shaun Harris]

Thats almost as cool as SEX

[Zedder]

How long will it be before we have to do a session in a simulator before we can get a licence?

Having the electronics is only an aid and shouldn't be relied on exclusively.

Probably not far away. Honda already has a SMARTrainer simulator for motorcyclists in the market and is developing it further.

[pritch]

I have the book and the video. Not sure you need both, as they each contain the same information.

The DVD would give you all the information you need and a better understanding of who Crafar is because of the extra little biographical "movie".

[actungbaby]

Yup it's essentially an ad for the new GSXR thou, and some may say it's making excuses for the lack of electronic intervention on the new bike. But I think the message behind it is a good one.

>

All due respect to the man he a great rider but bit daft to say u dont need abs traction control on bike with that much power and so

light theres nothing wrong with having a saftey net, okay with racing they might find it anoying but this is a streetbike after all

[willytheekid]

Na he is old school! From the bits that I have heard from about his book is that he does things a bit different. Im gonna have a good read when I get a chance, it obviously works.

There just is no school....like old school!


John McDermott (former Editor of Motorcyclist Illustrated and The Biker)...talking to MIKE "THE BIKE" HAILWOOD

"at Imola, I asked "What do you do to the others in order to beat them...apart from outride them?"

Mikes Reply "Look at all of them on the front grid before the start. You can see it in their eyes. If they think they can beat you, smile, give a nod and a wink. It works every time. Then you go out and show them what you meant." :Punk:



It aint the electronics...or even the bike!...its always that nut between the handlebar & seat you have to beat! :msn-wink:

[onearmedbandit]

All due respect to the man he a great rider but bit daft to say u dont need abs traction control on bike with that much power and so

light theres nothing wrong with having a saftey net, okay with racing they might find it anoying but this is a streetbike after all

I ride my 160rwhp 170kg dry bike with no traction control and abs. Don't ever have a need for either on the street.

[Zedder]

There just is no school....like old school!


John McDermott (former Editor of Motorcyclist Illustrated and The Biker)...talking to MIKE "THE BIKE" HAILWOOD

"at Imola, I asked "What do you do to the others in order to beat them...apart from outride them?"

Mikes Reply "Look at all of them on the front grid before the start. You can see it in their eyes. If they think they can beat you, smile, give a nod and a wink. It works every time. Then you go out and show them what you meant." :Punk:



It aint the electronics...or even the bike!...its always that nut between the handlebar & seat you have to beat! :msn-wink:

Excellent Wtk!

The weather's looking fine for most of the country this weekend as well. Life's good!

[Crasherfromwayback]

I ride my 160rwhp 170kg dry bike with no traction control and abs. Don't ever have a need for either on the street.

One handed even!

[CHOPPA]

There are obviously some pretty big misconceptions relating to electronic aids on here....

They are minor aids.... They dont solve stupid hamfisted inexperieced problems

[dmoo1790]

I'm conflicted about electronics. ABS might have saved me quite a bit of pain from one crash on oil/diesel. I miss the early 990 motogp days before they got TC sorted. Learners definitely need to learn manual TC at least until electronics are perfect and totally reliable.

[Mental Trousers]

All due respect to the man he a great rider but bit daft to say u dont need abs traction control on bike with that much power and so

light theres nothing wrong with having a saftey net, okay with racing they might find it anoying but this is a streetbike after all

Relying on electronics instead of skill is more what he's talking about I think. People don't learn when they've got a nanny looking after them all the time. The majority of the time it's far better to rely on the riders skill and knowledge. Electronics are there for the times when conditions are unexpected, eg fluid from another vehicle on the surface.

[CHOPPA]

ABS wont save you if you hit oil or diesel neither will traction control

[SPman]

"The limit is your's amd your's only".......yeah Simon - I think most of our limits are rather lower than your's........I sure as hell know mine are, although, great advert.

[Usarka]

The cunt is wearing a replica of my first ever helmet.

[pritch]

The cunt is wearing a replica of my first ever helmet.

Yeah. It's a dead ringer for my newest Arai too. You'd think he could at least try to be original :whistle:

[dmoo1790]

ABS wont save you if you hit oil or diesel neither will traction control

Care to explain further?

FYI my crash was in rain, upright, lightly on the brakes and lost the front so fast I was down before I had any chance to react. I figure maybe ABS might have slowed the lockup down a bit.

[sil3nt]

Kinda strange to think I have been listening to someone who believes aliens brought people to earth and blew them up in volcanoes (keith code).

Sounds like I might have to buy this dvd. Is it available in NZ or online only?

[PSYCHO]

someone who believes aliens brought people to earth and blew them up in volcanoes (keith code).



says it all right there

[bogan]

Care to explain further?

FYI my crash was in rain, upright, lightly on the brakes and lost the front so fast I was down before I had any chance to react. I figure maybe ABS might have slowed the lockup down a bit.

That was how I thought electronic aids were supposed to work too, by giving you more time to react, not to react for you. Dunno if I would be keen for all that stuff though, as it sounds fairly heavy, and I like lightweight bikes.