Early V4 Hondas, ever wonder what the real reason was ?

[gav]

Why they were so unreliable? Heres some interesting info!
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~wrenchtwister/V4hist.html
So anyone here use to have one of these? Must admit I owned a 85 VF750F Interceptor for a while (similiar to this one), and actually wouldnt mind another one, one day!

[XTC]

I had a VF1000R... nice bike but weighed a ton..

[erik]

Why they were so unreliable? Heres some interesting info!
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~wrenchtwister/V4hist.html
So anyone here use to have one of these? Must admit I owned a 85 VF750F Interceptor for a while (similiar to this one), and actually wouldnt mind another one, one day!

An interesting read.

Sounds like they had an awful lot of problems with them.

Thanks for posting. :)

:drinkup:

[Sensei]

So whats changed ?? :rofl:

[Motu]

Interesting about the valve adjustment - sounds like they needed to a ''running tappet adjustment'' like we used to do on the old Chevs.....one guy one each side of the car,one with a feeler gauge on the valve,the other with spanner and screwdriver being told...tighter,or looser, until they were right.It was standard proceedure and doing it that way you know it's right.Sounds like a typical big company ''conspiracy''

[Racey Rider]

Had one myself.
Really liked it.
Had no problems with it.

[Ixion]

Interesting about the valve adjustment - sounds like they needed to a ''running tappet adjustment'' like we used to do on the old Chevs.....one guy one each side of the car,one with a feeler gauge on the valve,the other with spanner and screwdriver being told...tighter,or looser, until they were right.It was standard proceedure and doing it that way you know it's right.Sounds like a typical big company ''conspiracy''

Vauxhalls used to have to be done that way too. It was a pain as it flung oil everywhere .

[Motu]

I had a special ''thingy'' to put over the oil pipe on Holden ''grey'' engines....the running adjustment was a GM thing,but we sometimes did it on Zephyrs because they were just so damn noisy.A bit of oil splashing around was good for Vauxhalls,but they still rusted away.

I thought those early V4s had big cam chain problems too? Maybe that's a seperate page....may even require a whole web site.....

[TonyB]

Can you imagine how stressful this would have been for all involved? Makes my job seem like a cake walk!

[rogson]

I owned a VF750F Interceptor - worst bike I ever owned, and I didn't even have any mechanical/reliability problems!

I bought it new in 84 (I think). I was seduced into buying it by the motorcycle magazines which at the time were raving over it (it was quite technically advanced for its time). I bought it without riding it first - what can I say.........dumb,dumb, dumb, dumb,dumb,................!).

It had about as much character as my wife's sewing machine - sounded like it too. I put a K&N filter and dynojet kit on it to try and give it more snap which improved it from comatose to soporific.

The handling was crap too. It had a 16" front wheel (one of the first?), which felt like it was always trying to tuck-under around corners. I never did get confident with it.

I had it for about a year, and sold it buy a KZ750 (great bike!). It had only done about 15,000km when I sold it.

The lasting legacy is that it put me off Hondas. I've never owned one since - shame really because they have made some good bikes.

[DEATH_INC.]

I had a 750 Sabre,no rpm limiter......would pull well all the way from 1500rpm at full throttle till way off the end of the rev counter,most flexible engine I've ever used.Did a 13 sec flat standing 1/4 too,not bad for an '83 shaftie.Had a 4>1 on it with a short 2"straight thru can,made the most beautiful sound I've heard come out of a bike.
Oh yeh,I blew it up eventually,but no cam troubles.....
There is another problem with the camshafts on these things, and that's where they take the oil from to feed the head....it comes from the gearbox after it's fed all the bearings etc.....so not a lot of pressure as you can imagine.I've got a thou V4 here I've set up an oil line from under the main oil gallery(tapped into it) to feed the head.This apparently is the real fix for 'em.

[Ixion]

..

The handling was crap too. It had a 16" front wheel (one of the first?), which felt like it was always trying to tuck-under around corners. I never did get confident with it.

...

Triumph 3TA and 5TA had 16 inch front wheel in the 60's IIRC. Handling was pretty crappy too, but I don't know that could be blamed on the wheel

[Motu]

Triumph 3TA and 5TA had 16 inch front wheel in the 60's IIRC. Handling was pretty crappy too, but I don't know that could be blamed on the wheel

The ''swan neck'',you just had to look at it and know ''something'' was missing....like the whole top tube! Edward Turner was renowned for cost cutting.We welded a piece of angle iron onto one.but it still didn't handle.

I rode one of those V4s with a 16in front wheel once,I thought the motor was flat,but it did have power everywhere on the tacho,the exhaust note didn't help the flat impression.I didn't like the 16in front wheel at all,but just put it down to my inability to cope with a ''modern'' bike,good to know I wasn't wrong.

[nudemetalz]

I had a VF500 once, beautiful bike, great to ride and not too slow.
Never had mechanical issues with it, but from what I've read the '500s were the best of the lot, reliabilty wise anyway.

The only thing I didn't like was the air-shock pro-link.
Not enough rebound, used to pogo but then again the shock may have been stuffed.

But, yes the V4 was very flexible for a 500, great touring motor.

Cheers

[Brian d marge]

In 82 I wasnt a honda mechanic then , ( drunk in singapore I think) ,,but when I did become a onda monkey, I rember getting a honda oil additive for those bike ,,which I now know was zinc ,,in order to slow the rate of cam/head wear ...and the tensioners ...always wore we used to say another winning idea by honda, ( though some of the bike now are really well made )

Biut its always been like that ,,,the Swan neck , realied on the tank as a brace, this was ok in the forward backward plane ,,,but what about left and right plane ,,,,pretty bike though

Now I work with a materials engineer, on thursdays , she works for Mahl which is subcontracted to Nissan, they have been battling a broken oil cooler bracket for over a year now, ( posted a quick Acad drawing you can see the sharp edge where they are getting fatigue failures )

Anyway the reason is the designer on her team has NO idea of load paths and is using the tried an true method of ,,,if it breaks make it bigger ,,,

The thing that make me see red is that Y### is a woman and we both know the solution , but she is a woman so her opinion holds little wieght ( in a man dominated jap society ..,,,, , and a materials engineer..ie not a designer ... and ...B , its not my progect ( ie nothing to do with me !)
She has been down 3 or 4 times to Yokohama to appologise for the failures ( which as a professional I would be spitting tacks ,,,she is to ...)

I hope there is no one working for either company on this list !!!

So rest assured ,,,, that you will see more superbly engineered lemons hittng the market ,,,,

Have I told you about the chinese spring order !!! 4 million yens worth of springs costing 1/2 yen each ....made with an incorrect spring rate ......Oh yeah oh yeah
( Even I could balls up like that ...I am in awe of your skills master !!)

Stephen
that was a good read ...always like tales from the dark side !!

[wickedstuff]

Hi guys, yeah these early big 4s had there share of cam/rocker problems! basicly the 84 had the heads and block drilled separatly and so when they were bolted together the galleries didnt line up as good as they should! the 85 and onwards were line bored all in one! as they knew they stuffed up and fixed the machining problem from 85 onwards. Now the good fix is a "top oiler kit" which you can make or buy on ebay in USA it takes filtered full pressure oil from the oil filter area up to the cams, it also has a one way valve so the oil doesnt drain back to the sump once the engine is turn off. the good fix is to use a good "bike" oil not a car oil. and use a "metal protector" not a oil additive. for example.
www.bi-tron.biz

[zadok]

From '86 on the VFR's went from chain driven cams to gear driven cams, I believe. As far as I know they were then great bikes. I knew someone that had one and it could fly and handle well.

[wickedstuff]

All Vf1000R are gear driven cams, all other vf1000's are chain, the 84 VF1000R had cam problems! coz of what i said in my previous note. the 85- and on were better but not perfect! same Honda took so long to correct its mistakes, but the VF1000R pathed the way for the very reliable VFR series. :)

[Deano]

I had a VF1000R... nice bike but weighed a ton..

A mate had one of those - it lunched the crank bearings with about 6000k on the clock.

[Bonez]

From '86 on the VFR's went from chain driven cams to gear driven cams, I believe. As far as I know they were then great bikes. I knew someone that had one and it could fly and handle well.Personnally I wouldn't touch a VFR earier than '88. :no:

[gav]

The '86 VFR750's are magic motors, still got the 16" front wheel though, but a 1990 CBR600 17" front wheel slots straight in , uses the same speedo drive, axle, spacers etc.
Dangerous had an early VFR too, did about a million kms or something.....

[badlieutenant]

Personnally I wouldn't touch a VFR earier than '88. :no:
well they are all good.
While it would be nice to have a modern bike I still like mine. Doesnt look that great but goes well.
I dont think I hold to many people up (sorry if I have)
there are a fair number of people in the U.S that have got 300,000 miles (yes miles) out of thier 86 vfr's and the things that fail (apart from reg/rec, but then a 2000 vfr wil do that) is the death of almost all rubber and bearings.
and dont forget that in 86 there were only 2 bikes to have, the legendary vfr and gsxr. These bikes were a big step forwards in bike design.
Back on topic, there is also a fix for the earlier vf's after the oil feed has been sorted and it's a slightly larger oil feed to the cams. I think Ive still got the data sheet showing you how to do it.If anyone actually wants it PM me.

[badlieutenant]

Hi guys, yeah these early big 4s had there share of cam/rocker problems! basicly the 84 had the heads and block drilled separatly and so when they were bolted together the galleries didnt line up as good as they should! the 85 and onwards were line bored all in one! as they knew they stuffed up and fixed the machining problem from 85 onwards.
yer thats how I understand it as well.
the other thing was when clearances were adjusted. They came up with a "special tool" that prevented the cams from lifting slightly as they were measured.
ahh honda special tools. bastards.

[vifferman]

... for over 6 years, from 1994 to 2000, and had no major problems. The motor was very good, and the only issues I had were rust pinholes in the right-hand side of the tank, at the back, where any moisture couldn't really escape. Also the left-hand muffler rusted out, which turned out to be a blessing, because I had M/C Exhaust Specialists in Chch make me up a pair of nice s/steel megaphones. With the custom foam airfilter I had made in Hamilton, the bike had a real nice note when wound up. :yes:
Only other issue was the brake disks - the right one was worn, due to lack of maintenance (caliper pins needed cleaning); put a pair of drilled ones from an NS250 on and it was all good.
I don't regret buying it, and had a lot of fun on it. Rode it from Hamilton to Chch just after I bought it, used it for commuting nearly every day in Chch for just over two years (including in the snow twice), and rode it back north. A few trips between Tauranga and Hawera, then commuting in D'Auckland for about a year. Brilliant. Loved the air-assisted preload, the antidive, and had no problesm with the 16" front wheel apart from one very quick headshake at 160 over bumps near Picton on the way down south, that stopped before I realised what it was.