Is it too easy to get a race licence?

[CHOPPA]

I was talking to a top racer yesterday and he made a good point about how easy it is to get a race licence and start racing.

Technically my wife that cant ride a motorcycle could pay some money get a licence then turn up and race a superbike in the nationals but she is not even allowed to ride my scooter on the road.....


Should there be some sort of training/testing requirements to get your licence and have the privilege of racing?

[Kickaha]

Should there be some sort of training/testing requirements to get your licence and have the privilege of racing?

Definitely, when I raced Karts to get each licence upgrade for Island or National competition you had to be observed at meetings by the stewards and do a small written test to advance each level

Also the requirement for 3 meetings before you do a National event or Street circuit needs looking at as currently I could do three meetings on my Bucket and then jump straight on a Superbike at Wangas, the meetings should have to be in the class you will race in

[boman]

Absolutely.

I am a road rider only, apart from a few track days, and I am shocked, and had no idea that there is no such standard.

It seems abnormal, that anyone can pay to race bikes, no matter what there experience level is.

[ellipsis]

...some sort of proficiency test should be a requirement...i know it is always on the back of my mind when we are doing a membership drive/ promoting racing to new people...we tell them, 'all you need is the gear and a licence and club membership'... ok if they are just going to tootle round with the F4 class or ride a CB 250RS in pre 72/82...but these days its not uncommon to get queries from riders never having been on a track, wishing to 'race' their 675 or their 600s...

...the mooted price rises and changes to the licencing structures being bandied about by MNZ at the moment may put a few new riders off before they even get there...

[White trash]

To answer your question Choppa, yes it obviously is too easy to get a race licence.

Imagine how fucking awesome our road racing talent would be, if everyone had to prgress through the ranks from Pro-lite, to Pro-twin, then be able to move to F3 or F2/Superstock, before joining the big fellas. We'd be churning out talented riders rather than dickheads with cheque books and fast bikes.

[Crasherfromwayback]

To answer your question Choppa, yes it obviously is too easy to get a race licence.

Imagine how fucking awesome our road racing talent would be, if everyone had to prgress through the ranks from Pro-lite, to Pro-twin, then be able to move to F3 or F2/Superstock, before joining the big fellas. We'd be churning out talented riders rather than dickheads with cheque books and fast bikes.

Then finally to 883's. Only the best of the best got to race them! On a serious note...it is way too fucking easy to go road racing.

[gatch]

Yes. Far too easy.

It seems ludicrous you have to go through around 2 years of limited conditions, while driving on the road. You have to pass a basic handling test to even be allowed to sit your motorcycle learners.

Yet you can pay your fees and ride at (potentially) 3x the open road speed limit millimeters away from others on a track.

[Kickaha]

before joining the big fellas.
Obviously you mean Buckets?

What do other countries do with race licencing? Do they enforce a progression through the ranks?

[roogazza]

To answer your question Choppa, yes it obviously is too easy to get a race licence.
Imagine how fucking awesome our road racing talent would be, if everyone had to prgress through the ranks from Pro-lite, to Pro-twin, then be able to move to F3 or F2/Superstock, before joining the big fellas. We'd be churning out talented riders rather than dickheads with cheque books and fast bikes.

I recall the system in Australia 1970 had grading of D and even E ! Don't know what it's like nowdays ?

[Kickaha]

Is it the same in MotoX, pay your money and start in whatever class you want?

What about in car racing?

[Mental Trousers]

I'm one who bypassed any sort of learners process (not that there is an actual process) and went straight to a serious racing class.

The main reason for that was that the Clubmans class scares me. It's full of guys who are over-gunned and under-skilled, they have no race-craft, have never been subjected to the pressures of a race start before and have only ever ridden track days. Having done lots of track days (I worked for a track day company) I got to see a hell of a lot of shit that'd score a punch in the face in the pits afterwards if it was a race. It was bad enough trying to dodgy people at a track day let alone in a race situation.

Not to mention how many of them don't see the flags at all.

I was way more comfortable being surrounded by people who knew what they were doing rather than a bunch of muppets with no idea.

There should definitely be a limit on what people can race. Start everyone off on a 250 proddy for their first ten race meetings or something.

Having said that, it's often hard enough to get the minimum numbers for many classes as it is, putting limits on newbies will make that more difficult.

[White trash]

Is it the same in MotoX, pay your money and start in whatever class you want?

What about in car racing?

I dunno about MX or car racing but drag racing requires different licences for different brackets.

[trustme]

As a 50's total newb who has done 3 meetings in the post classic class of NZCMRR I'd have to say it is probably all too easy to get in way over your head. Fill out the form get your licence & away you go.
My first meeting was the Puke classic festival where I got inhaled by the fast guys, scary , very scary for a newb & very easy to make a mistake that could hurt all involved seriously. Couple of meetings on & I'm starting to get the hang of it.
I don't know how the rest of the racing world works but I think it would be invaluable for newbs to assign them a 'go to guy' , not to mother them, but someone who can answer questions & help the inexperienced to avoid making mistakes, someone who makes sure they understand track etiquette , srutineering requirements, flags etc.
Going in green at the deep end is probably all too easy at present. I'd rather a mentoring approach than rule changes but I fully accept that may not be practical in regular road racing. The ART days run by the AMC seem to be a good starting point as well

[suzuki21]

I was talking to a top racer yesterday and he made a good point about how easy it is to get a race licence and start racing.

Should there be some sort of training/testing requirements to get your licence and have the privilege of racing?

Cant have been Craig you spoke to then. Anyway I agree in some respect, but someone who dosnt use their brain on a 1000 also dosnt use their brain on a 50. Even grading wont stop a retard being a retard. How many times during the winter have we seen people go straight from a race line (I use the term loosely as peoples idea of race line is anywhere on the track) suddenly veer of into the pits.

[Fast Eddie]

lol...

jeez, if someone starts the next thread about it being too easy to get laid then I'm off..

I'm glad its easy to go racing here or I wouldn't be able to do it ever and then I'd have to do it on the road at night time in the middle of no where..

[darkwolf]

See I'm saving pennies at the moment to start racing. And the bike I can afford will set the race category I enter into. I do feel it's too easy to get into racing for those with money. For me, it's extremely hard to get into it as I need to find the money first. To that extent though, I don't expect to get out there on the first few times and get on the podium. I only plan to get out, start at the back and try to keep up. Once I get up to speed, maybe I'll start trying to over take a few people.

I think it's a requirement of people who obtain a racing licence to have some personal responsibility. Everyone should know their abilities and ride to those, but having not competed I think that's easier said than done. But ultimately, you should know whether you can ride at the pace of the class you are in. If you can't, then take some accountability and move to the back safely. If you are much faster than the people in your class, you should probably be looking at a different class.

[Fast Eddie]

Is it the same in MotoX, pay your money and start in whatever class you want?

What about in car racing?

I think car racing is pretty loose, my friend and his dad, Paul and David Arrowsmith, have driven formula ford, a rx7 and a couple other random race cars and they just seem to go out and do their thing - they pay for their 1 race license each year like m/cycles and just have to be a member of a car club i think.

could be wrong tho

[bones1999]

In South Africa all I had to pass was a medical to get a race licence, in the UK I just had to get a licence release from SA and when I raced cars here 3 years ago I had to sit a written test about the rule book. At the pointy end of the car field all was okish, when we had reverse grid races and we started from the back and had to work our way through the field....... absolute MAYHEM!!
I don't know of a solution as a lot of 'relaxed race craft' comes from experience and time in the saddle and track days help with track knowledge but that's about it.

[CHOPPA]

Im thinking more along the lines of having an over the phone test of random questions from the rule book would be a good start?

[trustme]

Knowing all the theory is great, putting it into practice under the pressure of a race can be a whole different story.

[jrandom]

Should there be some sort of training/testing requirements to get your licence and have the privilege of racing?

Is the 115% qualifying time rule enforced everywhere across all classes in all of the various series, leaving the dregs and carnage for Clubmans?

I'd expect that to be the solution if it's not already being done.

[jrandom]

I was way more comfortable being surrounded by people who knew what they were doing rather than a bunch of muppets with no idea.

The problem with that logic is that the muppets are in danger of following it too, and then you end up with high speed differentials in what's supposed to be an elite racing class, and the logic is no longer valid.

Personally, I wouldn't line up on an F1, F2 or F3 grid unless I'd already tested at the track and was within a respectably small margin of the leaders' lap times.

I did a season of Clubmans on the GSX1400 and it was good fun. There were generally a few bins at the back of the field but I found that the guys around me were pretty good.

The problem with the smaller racing classes (buckets, Prolite etc) is, of course, that full-grown gentlemen like us suffer a slight power-to-weight disadvantage to the 45kg kids being brought to the track by adoring parents who've bought them a Ninja 250.

[FROSTY]

I have been advocating for several years that new racers should do at least one structured track day before being allowed to race.
In the uk and from memory the US you can't just "get " a licence

[Kickaha]

Is the 115% qualifying time rule enforced everywhere across all classes in all of the various series, leaving the dregs and carnage for Clubmans?

I'd expect that to be the solution if it's not already being done.


I don't think there is a 115% rule in the MNZ rule book, I think that is normally covered under supplementary regulations

New riders to wear dayglo as well for several meetings regardless of class

[Mental Trousers]

The problem with that logic is that the muppets are in danger of following it too, and then you end up with high speed differentials in what's supposed to be an elite racing class, and the logic is no longer valid.

Exactly the problem. People who don't know what they're doing on bikes they have no hope of mastering getting themselves in over their heads and being a danger to everyone.

It's more and more difficult to get a licence for pretty much everything except bike racing, which, ironically enough, is one of the more dangerous motorized past times you can get into.

[Maido]

Should be mandatory to at least know the flags and associated proceedures...... at the very very least.

[oscarnz]

Should be mandatory to at least know the flags and associated proceedures...... at the very very least.

If we have any new riders at a PMCC meeting, the flags and procedures are covered with them. And they are required to wear a hi-viz if it is their first ever meeting.

Yes I agree it is too easy to get a race licence and this should be tightened up. Just putting up the price is not the answer, potential racers should have to do a theory test, and attend at least 2 specific training days before the gain a race licence.

Also its about continuing education at club meetings, of which PMCC do if any rider is seen doing something that is dangerous or just outright stupid.

[budda]

Should be mandatory to at least know the flags and associated proceedures...... at the very very least.

Well thats more than half the front end of the field gone then ..........

[Kickaha]

And they are required to wear a hi-viz if it is their first ever meeting.
For how many meetings or just their first?

[lukemillar]

I have been advocating for several years that new racers should do at least one structured track day before being allowed to race.
In the uk and from memory the US you can't just "get " a licence

UK also has a tiered license structure. The first license after you have done the ACU course is a novice license which means you have to wear a hi-viz vest. You can only get it upgraded to a Clubman licence (and lose the vest) once you have done 10 race meetings at at least 3 different race tracks. I think after that there is a National licence which enables you to complete at BSB, BSS level, but am not sure of the requirements.

[Yow Ling]

Dont worry MNZ are onto it, they realised that licences are too easy to get so they making them 25% harder to get this year, last year they cost 145.00 this year they are 200.00.

Clever buggers eh !

[jrandom]

Personally, I think Gran Turismo 5 goes about it the right way.

[richban]

When I was looking at moving to the US I was going to race a 600SS. I contacted the local club and they were very strict on what class I could run under. To get a license I would have to attend a training track day and then only compete in the newbee class until lap times were acceptable and I had completed a minimum of 3 beginner races. Also to move up I would need to be observed on track buy a training dude. I asked if I could transfer my MNZ license and they sort of laughed and said lets just see when you get here. That was in Oregon.

[Drew]

It's too easy to do whatever you want at the track, I doubt tougher licencing will make any fucken difference!

[jrandom]

What is the actual problem here?

1. Complete n00bs turning up on racing grids and treating it as a learning experience, or

2. Guys who've conscientiously done a bunch of trackdays and stuff first, but who are just too slow and shouldn't be there?

[Fast Eddie]

Dont worry MNZ are onto it, they realised that licences are too easy to get so they making them 25% harder to get this year, last year they cost 145.00 this year they are 200.00.

Clever buggers eh !

really? fuck that sucks.. when do u have to buy new one, june/july?

[Crasherfromwayback]

When I was looking at moving to the US I was going to race a 600SS. I contacted the local club and they were very strict on what class I could run under. To get a license I would have to attend a training track day and then only compete in the newbee class until lap times were acceptable and I had completed a minimum of 3 beginner races. Also to move up I would need to be observed on track buy a training dude. I asked if I could transfer my MNZ license and they sort of laughed and said lets just see when you get here. That was in Oregon.

When I went to Aus they made me start out in D grade despite having won a national championship here. I had no issue with that. You had to win two races before you could move to C grade, where you could compete at national level.

[Bert]

What is the actual problem here?

1. Complete n00bs turning up on racing grids and treating it as a learning experience, or

2. Guys who've conscientiously done a bunch of trackdays and stuff first, but who are just too slow and shouldn't be there?

Neither.
Its the system and lack of realisation by riders (especially new riders or returning riders) that despite how well you think you can ride; there is just so much more to it (Racecraft & mental race fitness, it takes time).

There has been a number conversations regarding training, approval etc (it seems to be working well at the younger end; but failing for the older riders) and it all costs money; track hirage, support staff and people time to do so.

MNZ $$ this year (makes it rather expensive for the two/three times a year use); where's the justification in that? I assume its to cover http://www.motorcyclingnz.co.nz/newsDetail.aspx?SectionID=29&ArticleID=38336

[oscarnz]

Dont worry MNZ are onto it, they realised that licences are too easy to get so they making them 25% harder to get this year, last year they cost 145.00 this year they are 200.00.

Clever buggers eh !

But they are only putting up the price, not doing any training to go with it.

[oscarnz]

For how many meetings or just their first?

Depending on the club. From what I understand it is for the first 3 meetings.

But today at Manfeild, there was a young rider who has raced in prolite/mini-lite class on a 250 ninja, at national level, who today was on a 125cc bike in a different class for the first time and he wore a hi-viz, unsure if this was advised by the club or by choice as I was only watching today.

[Kevin G]

Depending on the club. From what I understand it is for the first 3 meetings.

But today at Manfeild, there was a young rider who has raced in prolite/mini-lite class on a 250 ninja, at national level, who today was on a 125cc bike in a different class for the first time and he wore a hi-viz, unsure if this was advised by the club or by choice as I was only watching today.

Said rider was riding the 125 under age dispensation from MNZ and wearing a high vis vest is part of the requirements.

[Kevin G]

Neither.
Its the system and lack of realisation by riders (especially new riders or returning riders) that despite how well you think you can ride; there is just so much more to it (Racecraft & mental race fitness, it takes time).

There has been a number conversations regarding training, approval etc (it seems to be working well at the younger end; but failing for the older riders) and it all costs money; track hirage, support staff and people time to do so.

MNZ $$ this year (makes it rather expensive for the two/three times a year use); where's the justification in that? I assume its to cover http://www.motorcyclingnz.co.nz/newsDetail.aspx?SectionID=29&ArticleID=38336

Lets get the facts right, a club licence which for people who are not doing nationals or street meets is proposed at $100 which is cheaper than the current one. It is the full licence for national or Island events and street racing that is $200.

Cheaper for infrequent users at club level, more expensive for National level riders. May help keep some of the under experienced riders from attending street meetings...

Read the document.

So we are listening re some ideas for how we manage licences, so do we test all the current licence holders or just new ones? How do we ensure that those already holding a racing licence know the rules, are not muppets etc?

Put a proposal together and send it in. Be part of the solution.

Kevin Goddard

[Ivan]

I dunno about MX or car racing but drag racing requires different licences for different brackets.


nah mx the same mini tt nats had no dirt logs in mnz licence entered mx1 straight away no questions

[Shorty_925]

I was talking to a top racer yesterday and he made a good point about how easy it is to get a race licence and start racing.

Technically my wife that cant ride a motorcycle could pay some money get a licence then turn up and race a superbike in the nationals but she is not even allowed to ride my scooter on the road.....


Should there be some sort of training/testing requirements to get your licence and have the privilege of racing?

You've edited that alot since I first read it. How did Tommy get his licence? Seemed to me that he rode that in there: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=0pC1DB_mQO8 First turns crashs happen. I know Ive had a few re-starts and national level riders out there(you get that racing at a national).

Re licence price increase - submitted my thoughts.

[Yow Ling]

Lets get the facts right, a club licence which for people who are not doing nationals or street meets is proposed at $100 which is cheaper than the current one. It is the full licence for national or Island events and street racing that is $200.

Put a proposal together and send it in. Be part of the solution.

Kevin Goddard

So a club rider who does not do Nats (no buckets or classics at nats) has to pay extra 100 bucks to do greymouth and methven why not leave it at 150 and charge Nats riders the extra 50.

thats my part of the solution

[gixerracer]

When I went to Aus they made me start out in D grade despite having won a national championship here. I had no issue with that. You had to win two races before you could move to C grade, where you could compete at national level.

So you never got to race C grade then:facepalm:

[gixerracer]

Lets get the facts right, a club licence which for people who are not doing nationals or street meets is proposed at $100 which is cheaper than the current one. It is the full licence for national or Island events and street racing that is $200.

Cheaper for infrequent users at club level, more expensive for National level riders. May help keep some of the under experienced riders from attending street meetings...

Read the document.

So we are listening re some ideas for how we manage licences, so do we test all the current licence holders or just new ones? How do we ensure that those already holding a racing licence know the rules, are not muppets etc?

Put a proposal together and send it in. Be part of the solution.

Kevin Goddard

Pretty fucken stupid idea really. All it does is put a small amount of money in pockets and will change not one thing.

[Crasherfromwayback]

So you never got to race C grade then:facepalm:

Funnily enough...no! I only raced my RS250 I brought over there the once. Started from the back row. Ten lap race. Got to the front within 5 laps and then did the best highside of my life entering the 'carosel' at Lakeside. Was that violent that I took the fuel tank with me.

Landed on my head (brand new Arai) and was lucky that I didn't further injure my right ankle I'd only the day before taken out of a hard cast.

Forever the 'D' grader.

[Tony.OK]

How hard would it be to have a thorough online quiz/test come renewal or application for road racers? All answers to be found in online rules, would at least get ppl looking at them.

Not a computer person myself so no idea how much work would be involved.

[gixerracer]

Funnily enough...no! I only raced my RS250 I brought over there the once. Started from the back row. Ten lap race. Got to the front within 5 laps and then did the best highside of my life entering the 'carosel' at Lakeside. Was that violent that I took the fuel tank with me.

Landed on my head (brand new Arai) and was lucky that I didn't further injure my right ankle I'd only the day before taken out of a hard cast.

Forever the 'D' grader.

This place so needs a like button:laugh:

[gixerracer]

How hard would it be to have a thorough online quiz/test come renewal or application for road racers? All answers to be found in online rules, would at least get ppl looking at them.

Not a computer person myself so no idea how much work would be involved.

Nop should be a practical and oral exam mainly online is to easy to cheat

[carbonhed]

Kind of ironic that a couple of threads down "Clubmans blah blah blah" you've got people being pressured into racing F1 and F2 because they can throw a couple of moderately quick laps together despite knowing that they're not remotely ready for it. Shambolic but entirely par for the course.

[gixerracer]

Kind of ironic that a couple of threads down "Clubmans blah blah blah" you've got people being pressured into racing F1 and F2 because they can throw a couple of moderately quick laps together despite knowing that they're not remotely ready for it. Shambolic but entirely par for the course.

See this is the thing it has nothing to do with classes bike size etc, its about knowing what the rules are flags etc and most importantly track eteaket. People are stupid and need things explained in detail sometimes

[CHOPPA]

To get my motorcycling australia licence I had to do a test over the phone was asked several questions from the rule book

[Yow Ling]

To get my motorcycling australia licence I had to do a test over the phone was asked several questions from the rule book

Is that because Aussies cant read or write?

[scott411]

I think it is a bit two easy to get a liceince, esp when you can apply online, go out and buy a Superbike or a 450 MX bike and line up against international competitors at a natioanl championship,

I think with the online reapplication it would be easy to do a quick test on flags etc, but since we only have one liceince for MX, RR, Enduro, CC and the rest, which parts do you test?

When i got my speedway liceince i had to go though a mentor program, someone was assigned to me and took me though the rules, and procedures, i was only allowed to start off the back of the field intil i had passed this (minimum 3 meetings) and then i was allowed to go into the draw for normal grids,

[RobGassit]

A Mentor program sounds like the smartest way to get a newbie up to speed with both the written and unwritten ways to do things correctly. Licence fee increases are needed to cover the Queenstown AGM. Wish I could afford to go. Big step up from Palmy eh?:facepalm:

[Drew]

A Mentor program sounds like the smartest way to get a newbie up to speed with both the written and unwritten ways to do things correctly. Licence fee increases are needed to cover the Queenstown AGM. Wish I could afford to go. Big step up from Palmy eh?:facepalm:Don't be fucking stupid!

[codgyoleracer]

Funnily enough...no! I only raced my RS250 I brought over there the once. Started from the back row. Ten lap race. Got to the front within 5 laps and then did the best highside of my life entering the 'carosel' at Lakeside. Was that violent that I took the fuel tank with me.

Landed on my head (brand new Arai) and was lucky that I didn't further injure my right ankle I'd only the day before taken out of a hard cast.

Forever the 'D' grader.


That landing on your head bit explains a lot.......... :-)

[Mental Trousers]

That landing on your head bit explains a lot.......... :-)

Pretty sure he's done it more than once :)

[Crasherfromwayback]

That landing on your head bit explains a lot.......... :-)


Pretty sure he's done it more than once :)

It's not fair to make fun of 'challenged' people you two!

[codgyoleracer]

Is a NEW license too easy to get - Yes (A simple application test 10 questions, followed by a further test after 3 meetings completed, would seem to make sense)

Is a NEW license too expensive relative to a re-newal - Yes, the evidince for this only needs to be seen when you try to join your local golf, squash, or tennis club etc (they hook you in with a deal for new members - then hope you remain part of the club for year to come via often slightly higher than first year/join membership fees). They know that NEW members are GOLD, existing members only require maintenance.

Should MNZ have a competitor in the markeplace of motorcycle sport - Probably, then everything would change............. and it would likely all get a lot more expensive !

[scott411]

Should MNZ have a competitor in the markeplace of motorcycle sport - Probably, then everything would change............. and it would likely all get a lot more expensive !

MNZ has plenty of competitors in the offroad side, and all of them are cheaper, infact none of them require you to have an expensive peice of paper that is our race liceince, and lot of the events are better run, more fun to race in, cheaper to enter and better supported than the MNZ National championships that run in the same types of races, (some of them are poorly run and poorly attended as well, but then are some MNZ events as well)

[Mental Trousers]

Is a NEW license too easy to get - Yes


They know that NEW members are GOLD, existing members only require maintenance.

and there's a problem right there. On the one hand you need new members to help grow the sport (everything we do should ultimately contribute to the growth of the sport) but on the other hand you don't want the new and inexperienced to be able to get in over their heads.


Should MNZ have a competitor in the markeplace of motorcycle sport - Probably, then everything would change............. and it would likely all get a lot more expensive !

No, I don't think there should be a competitor. Not in NZ anyway as the market is simply too small and fracturing the current community can only be harmful rather than productive.

[ellipsis]

...fracturing the current community can only be harmful rather than productive.


...from feedback I have already from our club members.we dont really need another body to assist in the "fracturing' of our sport...they seem to be a doing a great job of that on their lonesome...our membership has been dropping for a while and I hate to think how many will pack it in or not join our sport because of hikes in fee's...and forget the 'overseas they get charged squillions, argument...we are not overseas and I cant talk about off-road, but we are just managing to hold onto the sport here...

...growing the sport?...

[Kevin G]

...from feedback I have already from our club members.we dont really need another body to assist in the "fracturing' of our sport...they seem to be a doing a great job of that on their lonesome...our membership has been dropping for a while and I hate to think how many will pack it in or not join our sport because of hikes in fee's...and forget the 'overseas they get charged squillions, argument...we are not overseas and I cant talk about off-road, but we are just managing to hold onto the sport here...

...growing the sport?...

OK Just to ensure I understand.
Riders want more organisationally expertise
Riders want safer facilities
Riders want better facilities
Riders want better events
Riders want to be on TV
Riders want the show (nationals) to more professional
Riders want media activity to be increased
Riders want funding to be available for assistance for international events
Riders want .... riders want

My point is not picking on anyone or anything and riders should be asking for improvement in the above but lots of wants and only one question, How do MNZ deliver the wants or even some of them without the funding?

So forget all the wants and needs and make the full licence $100, how many members will join up that did not before? I guess bugger all.

So what is the answer then?....

[scott411]

OK Just to ensure I understand.
Riders want more organisationally expertise
Riders want safer facilities
Riders want better facilities
Riders want better events
Riders want to be on TV
Riders want the show (nationals) to more professional
Riders want media activity to be increased
Riders want funding to be available for assistance for international events
Riders want .... riders want

My point is not picking on anyone or anything and riders should be asking for improvement in the above but lots of wants and only one question, How do MNZ deliver the wants or even some of them without the funding?

So forget all the wants and needs and make the full licence $100, how many members will join up that did not before? I guess bugger all.

So what is the answer then?....

this is my opinion, MNZ should be an insuracne company, that provides the rules and regualtions to keep it their, currently esp on the dirt side they are pricing themselves out of that market, and clubs and promotors are running with out them, I think this price increase will not help the current poeple leaving, CLubs like Whakatane and the Tarawera TBRC have grown bigger since leaving MNZ,

The events are run by clubs/promotors, and so are the facilities, and I think the TV should be thier responsibilty as well,
,

[malcy25]

Re the proposed licence changes. I have provided feedback to MNZ indicating that as far as I was concerned the cost benefit was wrong. As a full licence holder I got all the cost (57 dollar increase) and the club riders got all the benefit (access to more meetings but only a $10 increase).

It suits me to hold a full licence, but I get nothing new for the $57 dollars which seems to be supporting everyone else supposedly getting a licence.

Thanks for making me feel like I'm getting value out of this. Not. More like bled, Additionally my sums (assuming 75% of those who hold a full licence will go to a Club licence) will actually drive a lower revenue take for MNZ meaning less money for other stuff.

As my brother said on the phone, the proposed structure actually limits the potential pool of riders who will do national events as they'll all grab a club licence and when a local nationals meeting comes up, they'll all cry poor and not enter.

Getting a licence in NZ is too easy. I understand that MNZ have been looking at skills based stuff with pre race meeting proof of riding / training. A good step. Unfortuntaley NZ doesn;t have the base as Aussie and Uk for a graduated system like they do or have had done.

[Grumph]

If there is a perceived problem with inexperienced riders coming in to the sport, it will correct itself shortly. The economic downturn will see to that OK...racing support is cyclical anyway, at present it's just coming off a peak and will IMO continue to drop for a couple of years yet.
When I started racing there were probably 20 active roadracers in the SI...we all knew one another well.

The licencing thing shouldn't get harder IMO - In ChCh my impression is that most use day licences as the Club licence doesn't suit here. The 3 local clubs recognise each others members but the club licence as I understand it is one club specific....a pain. IMO it should cover all the clubs in a region. The situation here doesn't encourage having a club licence and only the serious guys go for the full for the Nats.

Please please don't go like Kartsport...that's the most heavily over - regulated sport in NZ.

[ellipsis]

OK Just to ensure I understand.
Riders want more organisational expertise......?Not from MNZ we dont...we have all the organisational expertise we need and if we were to buy it I'm damn sure it wouldn't be purchased from Huntly
Riders want safer facilities....What facilities that our club require have anything at all to do with MNZ
Riders want better facilities...I dont know what riders you are talking about...all our riders seem to want is power to their tyre warmers on the B-track at Ruapuna..thats the Car Clubs resposibility
Riders want better eventsAgain, big generalisation...what riders...and as far as I've seen, Clubs run events , not MNZ
Riders want to be on TV....FFS
Riders want the show (nationals) to more professionalRemove MNZ from the scene then
Riders want media activity to be increased.....So you want to be a promotional company too
Riders want funding to be available for assistance for international events....as tey have since Sid Moses? won the NZTT and qualified for the IOM TT
Riders want .... riders want....are you sure its the riders?





I have to agree with scott411 and his insurance comment

[nodrog]

Well it wasnt easy forking out a whole years fees just to get a Licence that only lasts for 2 months.

[Yow Ling]

OK Just to ensure I understand.
Riders want more organisationally expertise
Riders want safer facilities
Riders want better facilities
Riders want better events
Riders want to be on TV
Riders want the show (nationals) to more professional
Riders want media activity to be increased
Riders want funding to be available for assistance for international events
Riders want .... riders want

My point is not picking on anyone or anything and riders should be asking for improvement in the above but lots of wants and only one question, How do MNZ deliver the wants or even some of them without the funding?

So forget all the wants and needs and make the full licence $100, how many members will join up that did not before? I guess bugger all.

So what is the answer then?....

Riders want more organisationally expertise >>>> Will this happen by these increases?
Riders want safer facilities >>>>> Does MNZ propose to pay Track owners to assist with this.
Riders want better facilities >>>>> Does MNZ propose to pay Track owners to assist with this. See above
Riders want better events >>>>> I am happy with the standard of events we have ,speaking as a club rider who does street meets
Riders want to be on TV >>>>> Is this relevent to most riders , I hate watching P1P2P3, when i dont run in top 3 and that all they show
Riders want media activity to be increased >>>>> how does that help the standard of racing? See above
Riders want the show (nationals) to more professional >>>>yes of course but MNZ people didnt make parts of Rd 1 this year look too good
Riders want funding to be available for assistance for international events >>>> yes
MNZ want .... MNZ want


IS MNZ just wanting to be a media company?

Was last years price increase a test to see how much we could stand? Nothing from that has flowed down to me, not that I ever expect any to



MMMM almost a double post !

[Crasherfromwayback]

Well it wasnt easy forking out a whole years fees just to get a Licence that only lasts for 2 months.

Yeah the fucking assholes did that to me last time I got my MNZ licence. And for that...it will definately be THE last licence I'll ever get from the fucking useless homos.

[scott411]

Yeah the fucking assholes did that to me last time I got my MNZ licence. And for that...it will definately be THE last licence I'll ever get from the fucking useless homos.

yes i rang up and asked in late april how much to renew my liceinse until 30 June, answer same price, so ill just do non mnz events till then, or get a day liceince for the 1 or 2 meetings i want,

(but to be fair to MNZ, Speedway NZ did the same thing, so it was day liceinses there as well)

[Yow Ling]

Yeah the fucking assholes did that to me last time I got my MNZ licence. And for that...it will definately be THE last licence I'll ever get from the fucking useless homos.

Hey dont give the Gays a bad name !

[Crasherfromwayback]

(but to be fair to MNZ, Speedway NZ did the same thing, so it was day liceinses there as well)

Yeah but them speedway cats are crazy. The fucking bikes don't have brakes!

[Crasherfromwayback]

Hey dont give the Gays a bad name !

My bad....

[ellipsis]

...and we probably all still agree that getting a full race licencse for either 145 or 200 bucks is still too easy..

[nodrog]

...and we probably all still agree that getting a full race licencse for either 145 or 200 bucks is still too easy..

You could make it as hard as you want, you are still going to get some dipshits turning up to race.

Its pretty fuckin hard to get a gun licence in NZ, but people still manage to shoot each other.

The onus should be on the events organizers to spot the dipshits and pull them aside and give them some learning.

Of course there is also personal responsibilty to take into account, but that must cost more than an MNZ licence because not many people seem to have purchased it.

[Clivoris]

Kind of ironic that a couple of threads down "Clubmans blah blah blah" you've got people being pressured into racing F1 and F2 because they can throw a couple of moderately quick laps together despite knowing that they're not remotely ready for it. Shambolic but entirely par for the course.

I hope you aren't implying that club officials would push someone into F1 or F2 if they weren't safe.

I have to agree that it is crazy easy to get a race licence but remember that there are always club and MNZ officials monitoring what goes on. No system is perfect but the mythical example of someone who cant ride entering superbikes is just that. Hang-on, I take that back. I just remembered Sandra S. Would a stricter licencing process have made a difference there?

Like an earlier comment said about firearms licences. The licence that is earned after thorough assessment doesn't come packaged with the faultless judgement or experience required to be a competent racer. Just look at what happens on our roads. It seems sensible to have a brief exam about flags and other foundation knowledge that at least means that the applicant has searched out answers from somewhere, but there is always going to be a learning curve (steeper for some than others). Managing this is bloody challenging but I imagine there are some real difficulties involved with a tougher licencing process. Do we really want increased expense, greater bureaucracy (sp?) and longer time-frames?

With regard to speed and skill differentials, I don't believe the answer is bracket racing. For me the true spirit of racing includes competing against others on similar machinery. This is what we should base championships on. Clubmans is a great class for novices, those who don't have the speed for other classes and those who don't have a class that suits their machine.

Finally, we are a very small community and need to take responsibility for our own actions and support others. Licences don't make this happen. I greatly appreciated how more experienced racers helped me out when I started, and work hard at doing the same for others now. I know that plenty of posters on this thread have done the same. Hell, Pete has even scored himself a cook because of it.

[jrandom]

Hell, Pete has even scored himself cock because of it.

That's the racing scene for ya.

[Crasherfromwayback]

That's the racing scene for ya.

Bloody glad I didn't score that!

[Clivoris]

That's the racing scene for ya.

It's the only reason any of us do it mate.

[ktm]

I hope you aren't implying that club officials would push someone into F1 or F2 if they weren't safe.

I have to agree that it is crazy easy to get a race licence but remember that there are always club and MNZ officials monitoring what goes on. No system is perfect but the mythical example of someone who cant ride entering superbikes is just that. Hang-on, I take that back. I just remembered Sandra S. Would a stricter licencing process have made a difference there?

Like an earlier comment said about firearms licences. The licence that is earned after thorough assessment doesn't come packaged with the faultless judgement or experience required to be a competent racer. Just look at what happens on our roads. It seems sensible to have a brief exam about flags and other foundation knowledge that at least means that the applicant has searched out answers from somewhere, but there is always going to be a learning curve (steeper for some than others). Managing this is bloody challenging but I imagine there are some real difficulties involved with a tougher licencing process. Do we really want increased expense, greater bureaucracy (sp?) and longer time-frames?

With regard to speed and skill differentials, I don't believe the answer is bracket racing. For me the true spirit of racing includes competing against others on similar machinery. This is what we should base championships on. Clubmans is a great class for novices, those who don't have the speed for other classes and those who don't have a class that suits their machine.

Finally, we are a very small community and need to take responsibility for our own actions and support others. Licences don't make this happen. I greatly appreciated how more experienced racers helped me out when I started, and work hard at doing the same for others now. I know that plenty of posters on this thread have done the same. Hell, Pete has even scored himself a cook because of it.

The most sensible post I have seen. Green rep.

[carbonhed]

I hope you aren't implying that club officials would push someone into F1 or F2 if they weren't safe.



Nope. I thought the people speaking for the club were all very sensible.

[Clivoris]

Nope. I thought the people speaking for the club were all very sensible.

Cheers for that. I went back and had a re-read just in case. Just for clarity though. When club officials participate on these forums and other media, unless explicitly stated we aren't representing the club in an official manner. We understand that what we say and do does reflect on the club, but see these forums as similar to conversations in a social setting. It's good to be able to express honest opinions and hear feed-back about all kinds of stuff.

[DerekP]

I'm not entirly convinced that licences tests are going to make a safer first time racer.

A mate attended a recent have a go day. At the special breifing for first timers flags were explained; the importance of watching for the chequered flag etc; All the flag points were pointed out by the 'trainers'. I told my mate the going through more than one chequered flag was a cardinal sin. After lunch he comes in with a sheepish grin - he had gone through more than one chequerd flag.... Would a test of some description have prevented this? No

Licence testing will also increase the price we pay for our licences.

A better way, IMO, would be to peer the first time racer up with a more experianced racer from another class. The experianced rider would join him on track, show him lines and would be able to offer feed back and tips at the end of the session. He would also help the newb with in-pit/technical types of info (tyre pressures, gearing, safety checks etc) After a period of time the experianced racer would just watch from the side lines to ensure the newb was following what was taught. A simular method to this is used for junior (streetstock) racing and works very well. Why shouldn't it work for older first timers?

[budda]

Cheers for that. I went back and had a re-read just in case. Just for clarity though. When club officials participate on these forums and other media, unless explicitly stated we aren't representing the club in an official manner. We understand that what we say and do does reflect on the club, but see these forums as similar to conversations in a social setting. It's good to be able to express honest opinions and hear feed-back about all kinds of stuff.

And not just CLUB Officials ......... cant think of many that get OFF on dealing with all the bullshit, most just get ground DOWN

[steveyb]

I'm not entirly convinced that licences tests are going to make a safer first time racer.

A mate attended a recent have a go day. At the special breifing for first timers flags were explained; the importance of watching for the chequered flag etc; All the flag points were pointed out by the 'trainers'. I told my mate the going through more than one chequered flag was a cardinal sin. After lunch he comes in with a sheepish grin - he had gone through more than one chequerd flag.... Would a test of some description have prevented this? No

Licence testing will also increase the price we pay for our licences.

A better way, IMO, would be to peer the first time racer up with a more experianced racer from another class. The experianced rider would join him on track, show him lines and would be able to offer feed back and tips at the end of the session. He would also help the newb with in-pit/technical types of info (tyre pressures, gearing, safety checks etc) After a period of time the experianced racer would just watch from the side lines to ensure the newb was following what was taught. A simular method to this is used for junior (streetstock) racing and works very well. Why shouldn't it work for older first timers?

A few comments.
Firstly, I believe that the logic discussed above, which I think summarises the 'no testing' view point quite well, is very flawed.
Flawed for the following reasons:

Just having someone wave some flags around and talk at a large(ish) group of guys standing around, chatting to each other (when they think they are being quiet), looking around, wanting to be elsewhere, wanting to get on with it, simply does not work effectively. Take your mate. I very much doubt that he is a fool (but you never know), but what lessons actually stuck with him on the day? The most effective way for the information and knowledge that needs to be gained to be gained, is by the individuals having to take their own time on their own to learn the knowledge some time prior to it having to be used, i.e. studying. Having a test of some kind is only there to ensure that a certain amount of that knowledge has been obtained by the individual. A riders briefing does nothing of the sort and can therefore not be compared to a testing regime.

Pairing up new riders with peers is all well and good, but there is no quality control to ensure that the peer is educated too! Also, it seems that there is a severe shortage of peers willing and able to provide such buddying. We tried it at VMCC a few years back and almost no one came forward and in the cases of those who did, the initiative simply died off after a few days. Admittedly, there was little support, but I believe that if the initiative was worthwhile it would have continued organically.

I am somewhat downhearted about the responses that acknowledge that getting a licence in NZ is way too easy, but then in the same breath say that is too bad cos I am not paying any more, and that it will turn people off. What a load of BS, and what a very NZ attitude. When an inexperienced and incompetent rider can get a licence and race a Superbike then something is wrong.

I think that everyone is also overlooking one large elephant in the room, along with all the other things wrong with this policy. That is the issue of MNZ insurance. Looking at the situation logically, I cannot see how the current MNZ insurer is going to stomach the current situation in the longer term. If MNZ lose its current insurance regime then we will be forced to self insure, like the Aussies, Americans and Brits. Then wait and see what the 'licence' fees and educational conditions will be. If a little studying and test will apparently turn people away, then that situation will see the end of the sport in NZ.

What is so scary about a bit of studying and a small test????

[G4L4XY]

Shit I better go for a race while it's still easy!! Oh wait don't have a bike, shit! :facepalm:

[cowboyz]

why not call it what it is. Its a MNZ fee. Not a licence. And $200/yr is not way out there. thats half a rear tyre for a 600/1000. there are plenty of other costs way above that.

of course.. I say this now Im not racing.. had I been racing this year I would be ARRRGGGHHH $200!!!!!!!!

[Maha]

I was talking to a top racer yesterday and he made a good point about how easy it is to get a race licence and start racing.

Technically my wife that cant ride a motorcycle could pay some money get a licence then turn up and race a superbike in the nationals but she is not even allowed to ride my scooter on the road.....


Should there be some sort of training/testing requirements to get your licence and have the privilege of racing?

Think back to when you got into racing, if you had to go through some sort of training programme and had to prove without doubt you had the goods, would it have bothered you?

''To get my motorcycling australia licence I had to do a test over the phone was asked several questions from the rule book''
Similar to a scratch and win...(but in this case there is no doubting your talent on the track)

It's my understanding that is not just a case of paying some money to get a race licence here in NZ, dont you have to part of an affiliated club for a length of time?

[ellipsis]

It's my understanding that is not just a case of paying some money to get a race licence here in NZ, dont you have to part of an affiliated club for a length of time?

...join a club, buy a licence, go racing...is all thats required...we have a good grasp of who's experienced enough for this class or that class and make sure that the rider in question is playing in the right class that suits OUR sensibilities, not their expectations... if this means putting a less experienced rider on a 'modern' in with pre 89's or even 82's, then thats what happens...but thats difficult when we run a bigger meeting with riders coming from outside the club or from further afield...as far as someone getting a start at a street meeting without having done three lower track meetings...that is purely down to the steward not doing his job at sign on...and with day licences now mooted to be available for street meetings, its going to make it harder to police...we do not let a rider near Methven Street Race if they have proven to be a twat at other meetings, simple...it doesn't seem to be such an issue with young riders as much as someone who may have a bit of road experience thinking they can turn up and show us how good they think they are because wifey has said they can go racing now that the kids are grown up or somesuch reason...

[scott411]

It's my understanding that is not just a case of paying some money to get a race licence here in NZ, dont you have to part of an affiliated club for a length of time?

you have to be a member of a club, not for any time, jsut a member, and i am not aware of any club that requires a test for entry

[jasonu]

Yeah the fucking assholes did that to me last time I got my MNZ licence. And for that...it will definately be THE last licence I'll ever get from the fucking useless homos.

Classic vintage KB stuff right there!

[Voltaire]

I'm in two bike clubs and I sent off the $ and got a race licence. It was mainly for Bucket Racing but I run a 40 year old classic in the NZMCRR ...and the fields are small. The first couple of times were a bit nerve wracking. :blink:

[Crasherfromwayback]

Classic vintage KB stuff right there!

lol. Don't need no stinkin MNZ licence to race VMX ya know Sonny!!!

[CHOPPA]

Think back to when you got into racing, if you had to go through some sort of training programme and had to prove without doubt you had the goods, would it have bothered you?


Well technically I had to... When I was 8 I had to have the local club president watch me for a day to observe I was eligible to get my 'full' licence so I could race the nationals. He had to then write a letter to the NZACU on my behalf. When I started road racing VMCC wouldnt let me enter the F2 class at my first race meeting and made me race in clubmens.



''To get my motorcycling australia licence I had to do a test over the phone was asked several questions from the rule book''
Similar to a scratch and win...(but in this case there is no doubting your talent on the track)




Well it was a pretty simple over the phone test but unless you had read the rule book you wouldnt have known the answers. At the moment you pay for your licence then read the rules...

[yorkshire raceramesh]

I can only go on my experience when I started in England in early 90's ( and it's tightened upsince then.)
You started off as a novice (orange jacket) complete 10 races at 3 different tracks to get clubmans licence. Next step finish in top 50% at 10 races at 4 different tracks to get National licence then another requirement to get International.
Not sure what they do now but I know there is a basic classroom coarse/test to actually get your licence to start with.

[slowpoke]

To easy? Yup. But I don't think any quiz type test is the complete answer. Just as important is observing machine prep, attitude, minimum speed type stuff. An observed track day would be a good step.

[SWERVE]

I can only go on my experience when I started in England in early 90's ( and it's tightened upsince then.)
You started off as a novice (orange jacket) complete 10 races at 3 different tracks to get clubmans licence. Next step finish in top 50% at 10 races at 4 different tracks to get National licence then another requirement to get International.
Not sure what they do now but I know there is a basic classroom coarse/test to actually get your licence to start with.

I remember the "dayglo derek" novice jacket ...... it was a system that worked well. It allowed all involved to easily pick out the novices among 40 screamin 2 strokes.... the riders knew who they were and the marshalls etc could also watch them just that little bit closer.
Also showed who was a "talant" cos if you could get up the front in a orange vest... safely..then you were definately one to keep an eye on.
Dont think we could do the 10 races / 3 tracks here as many only ever race one track (so would have to have vest on forever)

We use the mentor / training system with the youngsters and that seems to be working. Definately the "im fast on the road" people that cause problems. The huge abundance of track days throughout Europe have enabled so many to experience the track in a non race situation (although for many its still a race) and gain valuable track time when the main objective of officials is rider improvement / safety.
This has also brought big increases in race licence holders too.
But cant see track days getting much bigger here.... simply not enough participants.
I agree that licensing should be regulated............................. dont know how............

[Mental Trousers]

Best way to test somebody that I can think of is to test safety aspects on track, ie flags.

At a designated track day (which everyone applying must attend one of) get a rider who is applying for their licence on track, put a couple of other bikes near him and stick a flag out to see how he reacts (the other riders know it's a test and ignore the flag). He sees the flag and obeys he passes. He doesn't see it he's given a warning and then gets again later. If he ignores the flag he gets told to push off and come back in 6 months.

[ellipsis]

...at the end of the day, we have what we have right now and it's up to clubs, officials to keep an eye on who's loose or dangerous...our regular flaggies are so much in tune with what is going on that we hear about nutters, not often, .... we keep a list of kamikazes and crashalots...I still remember my first street race...had to fuck up a lot to learn...we are lucky to have a nurturing ethos toward younger entrants to the sport down here...a few people can be thanked for that, P.J being one of the biggies...and our kids get a big start in the craft real early...there's always gonna be a cannon though...maybe it's just policing of the rules of safety and knowledge of whats expected of them should be a part of the induction, race etiquette(tui) is a big one...

[Petrolic]

Stuff it, I'm going back to trackdays or will they let me move back and carve up clubmans with a day license again. After this weekend I put on a bazzaz quickshifter, traction control unit and an Ohline shock and my wife wont let me race again. Ride or sex??? Man I'm gona miss sex.

[Drew]

At the moment you pay for your licence then read the rules...Bullshit! More than half the guys out there have never LOOKED at the rules.

I'll wager $10 that less than 20% of riders are actually coherant in the rules, and less than 50% of the helpers at the track.

[rustys]

bullshit! More than half the guys out there have never looked at the rules.

I'll wager $10 that less than 20% of riders are actually coherant in the rules, and less than 50% of the helpers at the track.

here here Drew, id wager that to.

[Sarah311]

What I haven't heard is any rationale for the extra or different costings - seems the transactional costs would be the same for either licence, same bit of plastic, same buttons to push...
Neither of those options change how one obtains a licence.

As a rider who competes in the Nationals - I will HAVE to pay the extra, or not be able to race. That doesn't engender goodwill IMO. How will it be different if I ride at Ruapuna on a National Licence, versus someone who could ride on a Club Licence?

????

[Drew]

What I haven't heard is any rationale for the extra or different costings - seems the transactional costs would be the same for either licence, same bit of plastic, same buttons to push...
Neither of those options change how one obtains a licence.

As a rider who competes in the Nationals - I will HAVE to pay the extra, or not be able to race. That doesn't engender goodwill IMO. How will it be different if I ride at Ruapuna on a National Licence, versus someone who could ride on a Club Licence?

????I think it is because of the extra insurance, but I'm prolly wrong.

[wharfy]

Should be mandatory to at least know the flags and associated proceedures...... at the very very least.

Wot he said !!!
I was surprised at how little you needed to do to get a full race license, I'm all for making it tougher, both on the road and on the track. Of course I'm going to make sure my license doesn't expire so I don't have to sit any new test !! I'm not sure I could a get a road license if I had to sit the current test !!!

[wharfy]

Bullshit! More than half the guys out there have never LOOKED at the rules.

I'll wager $10 that less than 20% of riders are actually coherant in the rules, and less than 50% of the helpers at the track.

Wot he said -
I have read the rules (well some of them) they are pretty hard to follow (to many years of cutting and pasting) and almost all are about technical aspects.
The really important ones about who is responsible for keeping passing maneuvers safe, what the flags mean, what to do if a flag is presented, what to do if you have a problem etc. are not easy to find.
Most of these are highlighted at the riders brief (well Vic Club ones anyway) but all racers should have to prove they KNOW this shit before they go anywhere near the track.

[yorkshire raceramesh]

All this, flags, basic safety etc is why they introduced the classroom and test stuff in UK which you have to do to get your initial novice licence. Not sure how long it's been there but think it was brought in to combat the number of weekend warrior types who do a couple of trackdays then think they're Max Biaggi or whoever.
I did have an International licence when I was in UK but am happy to start at beginning again here as some of the stuff is slightly different. Not to mention I need to get used to not having a wheel on the side:laugh:

[Tony.OK]

Just had a play and I know fek all about pc tech shyte, but if I can figure out how to do a basic quiz thing, surely it wouldn't be hard to get a proper one set up as part of licencing?

It may not be the answer but it will at least get ppl looking for answers that should already be known, also it has the ability to ask more in depth questions about race etiquette etc. Would prob mean no more day licences as there is no way to check riders knoweldge etc.
Maybe once that part of licence has been done, then the VEST thing could be used for first timers, as long as an MNZ official or similar is watching those vested riders to make sure they have safe practises on track?

Heres my very basic quiz/test...........CLICK HERE (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/viewform?formkey=dGVkVXhQMkJMRmd6LTQ4RmZYMFdidFE6M Q#gid=0)....its not very comprehensive but gives you the idea.


Haven't figured out how to show the correct answers after test but am able to see on my google account what ppl choose...............don't need any shit slinging as its just an idea, I've got fek all else to do while my arms in a sling :bleh:

[suzuki21]

No system is perfect but the mythical example of someone who cant ride entering superbikes is just that. Hang-on, I take that back.
I just remembered Sandra S. Would a stricter licencing process have made a difference there?

Havent you read Kawasaki's BSB profile on her? She came from a succesfull superbike carreer in NZ you know.

[suzuki21]

People can be tested before getting a licence, but you will never find a cure for arrogance. Dorks trying to win a race at turn one on the first lap, slowing down in the middle of the track for no reason, veering of into the pits without warning.
Even saw a clubmans rider at Vic round 1 keep it pinned going into Higgins untill the guy in front braked. It was an ex multiple NZ champion riding a stock 600 in front and the guy found out what the outfield looks like. Then the same guy tried to go around the same rider at Dunlop who was coaching someone and pushed into him to "show him".

[Deano]

Havent you read Kawasaki's BSB profile on her? She came from a succesfull superbike carreer in NZ you know.

Well she did survive all that crashing so was pretty successful at something.

[Deano]

People can be tested before getting a licence, but you will never find a cure for arrogance. Dorks trying to win a race at turn one on the first lap,.

It's worse at the streets, maybe all those people watching gives some racers an inflated sense of ego ?

[Kickaha]

Well she did survive all that crashing so was pretty successful at something.

It's also something she carried on with after she left here, I sometimes thought her goal in life was to crash at every track she races at

[Clivoris]

Havent you read Kawasaki's BSB profile on her? She came from a succesfull superbike carreer in NZ you know.

Yes well, I'm with Deano on this one. In hindsight we were bloody lucky she didn't seriously injure herself or someone else. The other side of the coin though, is that we have all probably done dumb-shit while racing and the great majority of the time get away with it. There isn't a lot of time to write a list of pro's and cons before making decisions out there. A graded system may help prevent noob mistakes or someone getting in out of their depth. We probably need to link this with stricter policing of MNZ rules by club and MNZ officials, for everyone. Not just the "over-enthusiastic".

[Pussy]

Yes well, I'm with Deano on this one. In hindsight we were bloody lucky she didn't seriously injure herself or someone else. The other side of the coin though, is that we have all probably done dumb-shit while racing and the great majority of the time get away with it. There isn't a lot of time to write a list of pro's and cons before making decisions out there. A graded system may help prevent noob mistakes or someone getting in out of their depth. We probably need to link this with stricter policing of MNZ rules by club and MNZ officials, for everyone. Not just the "over-enthusiastic".

There was no shortage of people blowing sunshine up her arse. I wasn't one of them.

[Billy]

We probably need to link this with stricter policing of MNZ rules by club and MNZ officials, for everyone. Not just the "over-enthusiastic".

Absolutely on the money Clive,As I discussed with you earlier in the week,I am in the process of putting a list of suggested penalties I want too see enforced,With the backing of the Stewards commissioner and the President,Mental trousers has the details to post up on here in a new sticky thread that I will be using to inform Kiwibiker visitors of any big decisions we have in the pipeline for them to discuss if they wish,I have been asked by the board not to comment on this site in the future,So this will be my last Kiwibiker post as a member.

[Tony.OK]

Havent you read Kawasaki's BSB profile on her? She came from a succesfull superbike carreer in NZ you know.

Read that too...........does that mean I should head ova to BSB? I was better but lost the urge.

Goes to show that drive and determination can open doors? My looks woulda had doors slamming in my face though hahaa :no:
Can't deny she's there and doing it though........................jealous? Yup for sure, damn these tiny balls! :laugh:

[Mental Trousers]

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/149770-Commi-s-Corner

[Tony.OK]

Absolutely on the money Clive,As I discussed with you earlier in the week,I am in the process of putting a list of suggested penalties I want too see enforced,With the backing of the Stewards commissioner and the President,Mental trousers has the details to post up on here in a new sticky thread that I will be using to inform Kiwibiker visitors of any big decisions we have in the pipeline for them to discuss if they wish,I have been asked by the board not to comment on this site in the future,So this will be my last Kiwibiker post as a member.

Bummer........was good to read your posts, made MNZ seem more personable. But I guess the lines are easily blurred when speaking as Billy and not an official?

[Mental Trousers]

Bummer........was good to read your posts, made MNZ seem more personable. But I guess the lines are easily blurred when speaking as Billy and not an official?

We've thought about having a separate account for the Commissioner but the problem is MNZ aren't likely to ever have any official presence on this site. Considering 98% of threads end up totally full of shit it's really not surprising.

[Tony.OK]

Considering 98% of threads end up totally full of shit it's really not surprising.

Can't argue with that :laugh:

[ellipsis]

...it is a positive action by Billy/MNZ to actually even consider letting things in the pipeline be known...maybe the 2% of sense amongst the 98% of either uninformed or personal drivel that ends up in these threads is being listened to...kicking the elected officials on here is a little like jumping the fence to kick the neighbours dog thats been muzzled and whose owners are out of town...even if we think they need it...i'm not being nice, more like fair...even if they deserve it...

[quickbuck]

....,I have been asked by the board not to comment on this site in the future,So this will be my last Kiwibiker post as a member.
See you at the track Billy...

Will miss you on here though.

[scott411]

,I have been asked by the board not to comment on this site in the future,So this will be my last Kiwibiker post as a member.

tell the board to get out of the 1980's, if a board member can post here why can't you, or is Kevin G being silenced as well?

not everything that gets said here is good, or constructive, but not everything is bad either, and you being here and giving a balanced view on how and why things are being done is a good thing,

[scott411]

and is Budda silenced as well,

to all three of you, are you allowed to have opinions, or are you just not allowed to express them?

[Kickaha]

Can't deny she's there and doing it though....................

I had to go and check up, this is from yesterday

From Sandra
"Had a big crash in free practice.... Unfortunately bike is completely destroyed and couldn't repair it before first and second qualifying which was also today:( there is always next time...."

a big crash? how unusual<_<

[Kickaha]

Considering 98% of threads end up totally full of shit it's really not surprising.
If the moderators were any good they'd sort that out :whistle:

[Clivoris]

If the moderators were any good they'd sort that out :whistle:

Bahaha. You volunteering?

[Tony.OK]

I had to go and check up, this is from yesterday

From Sandra
"Had a big crash in free practice.... Unfortunately bike is completely destroyed and couldn't repair it before first and second qualifying which was also today:( there is always next time...."

a big crash? how unusual<_<
Saw that, theres pics of it somewhere too.

If the moderators were any good they'd sort that out :whistle:
Should we say goodbye to ya now? :-)

[Clivoris]

,So this will be my last Kiwibiker post as a member.

It would be a shame to lose your uncensored input on here mate. Other people might respond by talking to MT and setting up a new identity that had no connection with their real identity. As long as you don't give the game away, we would will still have the benefit of the occasional sense you make.:niceone:

[Mental Trousers]

If the moderators were any good they'd sort that out :whistle:

Watch it or I'll make you a Moderator again.

[GSVR]

We've thought about having a separate account for the Commissioner but the problem is MNZ aren't likely to ever have any official presence on this site. Considering 98% of threads end up totally full of shit it's really not surprising.


Watch it or I'll make you a Moderator again.


Give everyone with a race licence access to a private forum. Then you can "fine" anyone who makes posts that are:
1/Off Topic
2/Shit
3/Offensive
4/Not supportive or disagree with the "enforcers ideals"

We need more regulation until all freedoms are lost.Fines are the way to keep freedom and make the forums safe for all!

[codgyoleracer]

Absolutely on the money Clive,As I discussed with you earlier in the week,I am in the process of putting a list of suggested penalties I want too see enforced,With the backing of the Stewards commissioner and the President,Mental trousers has the details to post up on here in a new sticky thread that I will be using to inform Kiwibiker visitors of any big decisions we have in the pipeline for them to discuss if they wish,I have been asked by the board not to comment on this site in the future,So this will be my last Kiwibiker post as a member.

Finally, someone got Billy to shut up............


Seriosuly though, - posting on all subjects other than MNZ items , cant be missinterpreted or restricted. (Lots of people laid lives down in wars for free speech Billy.........).

Of course you'll be breaking your own rule if you reply to this ...... :-) ,

[Kiwi Graham]

I have been asked by the board not to comment on this site in the future,So this will be my last Kiwibiker post as a member.

Dont worry mate we will still be able to hear ya screaming at the computer <_< I'm only up in Auckland and can hear ya clear as day :laugh:
See you at the weekend buddy :niceone:

[Crasherfromwayback]

. Considering 98% of threads end up totally full of shit it's really not surprising.

I would've thought that'd suit MNZ down to the ground.

[Sarah311]

Finally, someone got Billy to shut up............


Seriosuly though, - posting on all subjects other than MNZ items , cant be missinterpreted or restricted. (Lots of people laid lives down in wars for free speech Billy.........).

Of course you'll be breaking your own rule if you reply to this ...... :-) ,


+1
Screams Autocracy, not Democracy, (which is what is suggested by holding an AGM, and suggesting submissions can be made...) so Ironic.
I trust your eyes are still allowed to do as they please, and haven't been also told what they can and can't do?