Making a new custom loom?

[The Pastor]

Hi,

I need to make a complete loom from scratch, One question I have is How much, and what type of wire do I need?

Should I get lots of different colors like jap cars use? Or is this not really nessacery?

Ive found 1 place (in aucks) that sells cable, but only in 50m bit, I think i'd need like 40m total, and preferably lots of different colours, anyone got any tips on this?

Chur

[hayd3n]

jaycar sell all the relevant colors i wouldn't know where to start on the amp / ohm requirements etc etc

[DrunkenMistake]

Not to sound like a prick here,
But if you cant work out which gauge wire to use maybe you shouldnt be fucking with your bikes electrical system?

[Fast Eddie]

^ I recon haha.. if your not sure on that aspect I dunno if you should be playing with sparks.

you'll want different colors so you can tell the difference between positive/negative or where each wire came from.. I couldn't imagine rewiring a bike all in black wires - you'll get lost really quick.

but where there is a will there is a way. just think about it for a bit :) google as well, you could use diff color tape to color the wire ends etc.

chuck some pics up of what you are doing.. interesting to have to make a complete entire loom from scratch

[HenryDorsetCase]

Hi,

I need to make a complete loom from scratch, One question I have is How much, and what type of wire do I need?

Should I get lots of different colors like jap cars use? Or is this not really nessacery?

Ive found 1 place (in aucks) that sells cable, but only in 50m bit, I think i'd need like 40m total, and preferably lots of different colours, anyone got any tips on this?

Chur

I am about to do the exact same thing. What i have done is carefully removed the existing loom on my bike, so that I "should" have wire in the colours an lengths approximately that I need. The difficult thing is connectors. Obviously the less you have the better but you will need some. At this point I think I can re-use most of the ones I have but we wait and see. I have been to a local auto electrician and they sell wire by the metre in different colours, and also have a lot of different connectors (NARVA brand) . Most of them though are quite a lot larger than their motorcycle equivalents. My brother in law is an auto electrician by trade and if I fuck it up he can fix it up, but I am hopeful of a good outcome. My context is that my track-only VFR400 had a shedload of extra wiring for circuits it didnt have. One Sunday afternoon I thought "I'm going to tidy that up". Four hours later I have the loom off the bike, and laid out on my bench. Took an hour just to get the bodge bits of shitty old electrical tape off the thing. Its AWFUL.

You will also need to protect it when done. there are a couple of options but all of them require you to put them over the bare wire, add sheathing then the connector block. Heatshrink drops by half, so if it fits over the connector block it will likely be a bit loose on the loom itself. you can get a fibreglass type sheathing too. Just put a bit of heatshrink on either end. (thats my preferred option). One website I was reading talked about "milspec" connectors but not sure how expensive or where to source.

http://www.vehicle-wiring-products.eu/VWP-onlinestore/home/homepage.php


http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/146172-High-quality-wire-sheathing-and-heat-shrink-where-in-Auckland

I have a multimeter, a crimping tool, and a circuit tester. (and a positive mental attitude). Stay tuned.

[F5 Dave]

Wire it all in black, our old Landrover appeared to be.:blink: Ahh the Brits & their humour. (heck could have been redone by some 'enthusiast' in last 50 years).


You won't be able to use milspec connectors in the real world, but they are pretty cool. Best for use on bulkheads ie fixed positions. Can be mega expensive, have a look at Factory works bikes. I have access to them, but not worth the effort even for my race bikes.

You don't want to be using the same connector time & time again or you will make it hard to reattach & get it right.

Drawing a wiring diagram as you go and from an initial plan will not be wasted time. Lots of colours (steal your little sister's felt pen set).


Go on-line to find some decent connectors, have a hunt around here or try find a place to get them, worth a lot of hassle. Something like this, but just an example post, not a recomendation.
http://www.newunitedracetech.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=5808&zenid=3uh1vrqdsv386ffdbg5gqia620

Then there is the question of soldering or crimping. People will argue that soldering is best connectivity. Yes that is true, but in a static environment (like a house) there is no issue. With a bike there is vibration & constant flexing of that joint from steering head. Mil type looms often use crimping for that reason. The original Japanese loom has been entirely crimped.

and I don't mean those pathetic plastic coated crimps you find in most cheapo auto places. If you use those you get what you deserve.

When I remade my loom on my special I used Utilux bullet fold crimps & genuine bike connectors cut off old looms. I cut the bullet part off & crimped the two wires together & covered in heatshrink. I made over a hundred connections. I wished I'd started from scratch & spent the money on new connectors.

oh yeah you will need a proper crimp tool that folds the crimp neatly. (try Utilux) something like this: http://www.sulco.co.nz/Product?Action=View&Product_id=11706
but through local electrical place, mine cost ~$40, but that was 10yrs ago or more.

If you use one that is meant for those nasty plastic coated. .., well I've had that whinge.

[The Pastor]

Not to sound like a prick here,
But if you cant work out which gauge wire to use maybe you shouldnt be fucking with your bikes electrical system?

you do sound like a prick.

[The Pastor]

thanks for the replies, and that thread you linked HenryDorsetCase, very cool.

I will do a proper job.

I have the original loom, but Im not wanting to cut it up for 2 reasons.

1. Its a great reference point.
2. I can sell it.

This is for my custom bike, gotta relocate all the fuses etc, as well as hide the wiring. Its going to be a steep learning curve, but I think im going to succeed at it. From the looks of it, it looks pretty straight forward. Connectors, wire and heat shrink / sheathing is what i need to know.

Jaycar, on its website, only has red and black cables, but they reckon it sells a whole heap, i'll go into the store one day and have a look see.

What i was planning on doing was using bullet connectors (crimped) as well as a small bit of solder, with a heat shrink cover.

Anyone know a GOOD auto sparky in aucks ( i had used one in the past but got TERRIBLE aesthetics from them)

[tigertim20]

Not to sound like a prick here,
But if you cant work out which gauge wire to use maybe you shouldnt be fucking with your bikes electrical system?

Well you dont learn anything by getting everyone else to work on your bike now do you?

You are better off getting the various colours for two reasons, one, when putting the loom together you want to differentiate between what wires go where, you dont want your starter to turn when you hit the headlight switch etc etc, and secondly, you need to know what wires serve what purpose later on when you pull things apart/put back together etc.

You can buy it by the metre at supercheap, bunning etc etc, and if you took a copy of the wiring diagram, and perhaps even the existing loom in with you, they should be able to help you out with what type of wire you need where etc.
You dont have to have the exact same colours, just stay consistent over the whole loom, and cross reference it on a copy of your wiring diagram for future reference.

[HenryDorsetCase]

In the back of my VFR400 manual there's a colour wiring diagram, which I have blown up to A2 size. I intend to trace it on tracing paper in the colours I need, just the circuits I need, in the colour the wire will be. It needs to be big so its easy to understand and easy to see....... all good fun.

[FJRider]

In the back of my VFR400 manual there's a colour wiring diagram, which I have blown up to A2 size. I intend to trace it on tracing paper in the colours I need, just the circuits I need, in the colour the wire will be. It needs to be big so its easy to understand and easy to see....... all good fun.

Make a few enlarged copies ( At ANY Paper-plus shop ) and mark the colours of the wires with coloured felt pens.

[Coldrider]

just buy some 35mm2 4 core neutral screen, it can be purchased by the meter, and comes pre colour coded. :msn-wink::eek:

[Kickaha]

One website I was reading talked about "milspec" connectors but not sure how expensive or where to source.

Best place in Christchurch to try for connectors, wire, blocks etc would be,Canterbury Auto Electric Service Ltd, 159/161 Waterloo Road, Hornby, 366 9600
They used to be in St Asaph street and have pretty much everything

[imdying]

Save your money, buy it all off shore. I've done what you're talking about recently.

Connectors: All Sumitomo or Mitsubishi fully sealed connectors (as per late model jap bikes) easternbeaver.com (located in Japan)
Sheathing: Expanded braid for the most part (various sizes from 3mm up to 20mm), ends of braid terminated with self sealing/gluing heatshrink. Some large OD thick wall heatshrink for abrasion resistance in particular places, and where multiple braid runs join together (cableorganiser.com)
Fuse box: Basic Hella/Narva blade style box (anywhere, even Repco/Supercheap)
Wire: Buy it anywhere (Jaycar, Ideal, anywhere you like).

Don't do anything till you have a plan to follow. You'll need it to buy the connectors at the very least.

To build two looms, for a custom ecu, 20 channel datalogger, quick shifter, flash dash, all sealed connectors, cost me about $600, plus a little more for some quality crimping tools (Easter Beaver can supply those too). That might seem a little steep, but then there's like 20 3 pin connectors for a start, and I did over engineer it somewhat for reliability.

Made a single mistake when I rewired the hi/lo switch internals, but other than that was plain sailing. Although your fingertips get sore after the first dozen connectors hahahahah.

I can tell you more, but I'm super pushed for time at the moment, so you'd be better off just ringing me to talk about it rather than relying on me to remember anything about anything.

Take my advice, get your shit together before you start, it really did make the job much much easier than the total SNAFU it could have been :yes:

[imdying]

Oh and if you use expanded braided sleeving, be careful about using heatshrink to terminate the ends of it... if you get it to hot, it doesn't like me DAMHIK.

[carburator]

Save your money, buy it all off shore. I've done what you're talking about recently.

Connectors: All Sumitomo or Mitsubishi fully sealed connectors (as per late model jap bikes) easternbeaver.com (located in Japan)
Sheathing: Expanded braid for the most part (various sizes from 3mm up to 20mm), ends of braid terminated with self sealing/gluing heatshrink. Some large OD thick wall heatshrink for abrasion resistance in particular places, and where multiple braid runs join together (cableorganiser.com)
Fuse box: Basic Hella/Narva blade style box (anywhere, even Repco/Supercheap)
Wire: Buy it anywhere (Jaycar, Ideal, anywhere you like).

Don't do anything till you have a plan to follow. You'll need it to buy the connectors at the very least.

To build two looms, for a custom ecu, 20 channel datalogger, quick shifter, flash dash, all sealed connectors, cost me about $600, plus a little more for some quality crimping tools (Easter Beaver can supply those too). That might seem a little steep, but then there's like 20 3 pin connectors for a start, and I did over engineer it somewhat for reliability.

Made a single mistake when I rewired the hi/lo switch internals, but other than that was plain sailing. Although your fingertips get sore after the first dozen connectors hahahahah.

I can tell you more, but I'm super pushed for time at the moment, so you'd be better off just ringing me to talk about it rather than relying on me to remember anything about anything.

Take my advice, get your shit together before you start, it really did make the job much much easier than the total SNAFU it could have been :yes:

pretty much what everyone has said, enevn in the rally car's its a bloody nightmare
we have from ( insert the name of that german company i can't remeber right at this minute )
number bands that you slip over the wire and shrink into place ..

they do a great rivnut gun too...

long runs we use trailer five or seven core ( two wires might be doing the same job but thats
dure to overkill as ive seen rallys lost over a single wire to a fuel pump breaking )

ive always tinned the ends before crimping, its a personal thing.
military / aircraft plugs brilliant yet when you have a 50 pin plug and you have to start
soldering from the inside pin to the outside and you realise that you have skipped a pin
its a prick to try and unsolder that one pin in the middle ..

anyway best trick ive leanrt is get a sheet of poo wood and use it as a lay out for runs
so you don't get twists or uneven lenghts..

[The Pastor]

thanks for your replies, very helpful.

[Brian d marge]

pretty much what everyone has said, enevn in the rally car's its a bloody nightmare
we have from ( insert the name of that german company i can't remeber right at this minute )
number bands that you slip over the wire and shrink into place ..

they do a great rivnut gun too...

long runs we use trailer five or seven core ( two wires might be doing the same job but thats
dure to overkill as ive seen rallys lost over a single wire to a fuel pump breaking )

ive always tinned the ends before crimping, its a personal thing.
military / aircraft plugs brilliant yet when you have a 50 pin plug and you have to start
soldering from the inside pin to the outside and you realise that you have skipped a pin
its a prick to try and unsolder that one pin in the middle ..

anyway best trick ive leanrt is get a sheet of poo wood and use it as a lay out for runs
so you don't get twists or uneven lenghts..

Im dong one now !!

the poo wood it painted white m and the components bolt to it , , 1,8m x1 x 0.05m

Make a wiring diagram, ( there is some excellent software that allow you to test your proposed loom. ( I use electric , linux but the windows ones are much better)

Also which some may have mentioned , Estimate the current going through , while in most cases you can use the same as the japs ( and they do some shocking ones ) Ive seen pissy earth wires , ( from the factory !)

talking about earth's , lots of em and bridge that steering stem !

tin the ends, ( I use cutting pliers , and make the crimp, sorry personal thing as I can ensure its correct ) then a small bit if heat shrink , then into the block connector and for me , clear silicon on the backs of block connectors as well as.

and on saying that

I must do some work

Stephen

[F5 Dave]

. . .talking about earth's , lots of em and bridge that steering stem. . .
What he's saying there is don't rely on frame earth to bridge the connection to the bars, as any earth connections from that point have to travel through grease film. Run a reasonable wire between the two.

[imdying]

we have from ( insert the name of that german company i can't remeber right at this minute )
number bands that you slip over the wire and shrink into place ..Yeah, that's something I wish I'd thought about more... not only would it help keep everything easy to maintain, but it'd look pimp as fuck too.

[F5 Dave]

yeah don't underestimate the amount of time to trouble shoot issues if you play it by ear. I started off with a butchered loom & though crap I can do better & bought another loom & as the project grew I ended up with more & more different controls or electronic boxes that weren't original.

A decent plan & from scratch will take ages & cost. But so will any other way if it is a slightly ambitious end plan.

[mossy1200]

Get a multi core cable as the main loom and strip it as required. The cable are all white but they are numbered every 30mm

[Macontour]

Anyone know a GOOD auto sparky in aucks ( i had used one in the past but got TERRIBLE aesthetics from them)[/QUOTE]

I had these guys fix a lighting issue with my cage, very helpful at short notice and short staffed over Christmas. They sorted the problem quickly and charged about $80 when I was expecting to pay a couple of hundred for a new switch etc. Kevin was awesome to deal with.

They do everything from bikes to cars, trucks, motor homes and so on.

Wiri Automotive Electrical Ltd, 121 Plunket Ave, Wiri, ph:262-2660

[carburator]

Yeah, that's something I wish I'd thought about more... not only would it help keep everything easy to maintain, but it'd look pimp as fuck too.

Wurth NZ..
RS componets probably have them too..

I grew up in the aircraft industry , honestly can say when you in the bowels of a 747/400 and your looking
for a certain wire that number code tag system works very well

the pimp daddy loom i had in the staduim truck was aircraft built
push button reset breakers
sliver plated contact switch gear ( aircraft shit ) ( hell ive seen races lost over $12 shit from repco )
bulkhead conectors and bits..

[CookMySock]

The important things about wire sizes are, obviously that it won't have too much voltage drop (lights will be dim, horn wont go etc) and also, and very importantly, that the fuse WILL BLOW if you short the distant end to ground. If you use too small a wire and you have a fault to ground, the fuse won't blow and now you have a ticking time bomb.

[Paul in NZ]

Buy the latest Claasic Bike magazine - its got an article on making your own

[F5 Dave]

Every time I read something in a mag they say solder the connections. That's house technology.

[imdying]

Every time I read something in a mag they say solder the connections. That's house technology.All my bikes have crimped factory looms, so I followed that logic and built mine with the same connectors and crimping. Having said that, where some earths join together, I have soldered. As you say, a quality crimp is ok, and average one is not.