Excellent backfiring and popping

[mashman]

... but it only started today and me thinketh something ain't quite right. Not that the Prila is running rough, but she's certainly not smooth and almost feels like she wants to stall at low revs (missing perhaps?). Rolling off the throttle she's popping something chronic, lervely sound, but hmmmmm, that can't be right. The battery is lowish (I hope the stator ain't gone pop again) and I'll charge it tomorrow, I'll check the plugs aren't loose and I'll check the vacuum hoses for holes... is there anything else you can think of that I should be checking?

Cheers

[unstuck]

... but it only started today and me thinketh something ain't quite right. Not that the Prila is running rough, but she's certainly not smooth and almost feels like she wants to stall at low revs (missing perhaps?). Rolling off the throttle she's popping something chronic, lervely sound, but hmmmmm, that can't be right. The battery is lowish (I hope the stator ain't gone pop again) and I'll charge it tomorrow, I'll check the plugs aren't loose and I'll check the vacuum hoses for holes... is there anything else you can think of that I should be checking?

Cheers

Clean the points.:bleh::bleh::bleh::bleh:

[bogan]

How do they deal with leaning out under decel? Could be a vac sensor not telling the ECU to put a bit more fuel in, or if carbed, an air cutoff valve malfunction. Vac leak check is a god first plan though.

[mashman]

Clean the points.:bleh::bleh::bleh::bleh:

She doesn't run on tracks :shifty:


How do they deal with leaning out under decel? Could be a vac sensor not telling the ECU to put a bit more fuel in, or if carbed, an air cutoff valve malfunction. Vac leak check is a god first plan though.

Pfffft, leaning out under decel, sounds like cornering to me :blink:. Will check the vac lines too, although not sure how to do that, will google and see iffen I can do it. Cheers

[mossy1200]

She doesn't run on tracks :shifty:



Pfffft, leaning out under decel, sounds like cornering to me :blink:. Will check the vac lines too, although not sure how to do that, will google and see iffen I can do it. Cheers

MT01 does it alot with the aftermarket cans.

[slofox]

How do they deal with leaning out under decel? Could be a vac sensor not telling the ECU to put a bit more fuel in, or if carbed, an air cutoff valve malfunction. Vac leak check is a god first plan though.

Wot 'e said. Air leak somewhere would be my thought too.

[Akzle]

spark plugs all conectered? HT leads all OK?
popping= fuel burning in the muffler, not the cylinder?

thems the first things pops into my head when i readed that.

[mashman]

Cheers for the suggestions... I'm thinking battery though. The Prila does seem to love to kill them. I charged the battery to 14.16v, just had a cig in the garage and measured again, 13.36 and falling. It's not connected and it isn't holding a charge. Kinda disappointing as it's an AGM battery and the last battery that was killded by the Prila turned it into Perry the Platypus...

Not ruling out that there isn't another problem, but 2 batteries dead, hmmmmm. What kills battery's? (according to Mrs M it's luggin a fat bastards arse around, biotch) Fuck I hope I don't have to replace another stator too.

[rustyrobot]

Heya, came across this thread when I was searching on the AF1 forums for my own battery problems. Could be related?


http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/showthread.php?221386-****Correct-battery-replacement-procedure-Must-read

Many here have reported dead batteries shortly after replacing with a new one.

Also, to prevent resetting the odometer to zero, make sure you remove the key from the ign before disconnecting the batt.
Aprilia has recently released a troubleshooting guide with detailed explanations and fixes for issues that over the years have been reported by the dealers thru warranty claims.

The following is a copy/paste verbatim from that guide:

INTRODUCTION:
The following procedure must be performed when refitting the battery onto a vehicle with the MARELLI instrument panel (identifiable by the + and - buttons to the left of the display). This procedure is necessary to prevent the instrument panel from remaining in the "awaiting memorisation of 2nd key", causing it to consume 20 times more current than normal.
The problem is caused by the instrument self-resetting and then waiting for a key memorisation procedure (even if it has already been performed), remaining in standby mode with this function still active. The resulting high current consumption will drain the battery completely within 3 or 4 days if the vehicle is not used.



PROCEDURE:
After disconnecting the poles of a battery on an RSV 1000 V2 with Marelli instrument panel, after reconnecting, perform a key-on, wait at least 15 seconds without starting the engine then switch the ignition off.

For more precise testing, connect a multimeter set to current measurement to the battery poles: at key-on, current consumption drops from 45 milliamps to 1-2 milliamps after approximately 15 seconds.
Obviously, when the multimeter is disconnected, it is as if the battery poles were disconnected again, so the aforementioned procedure must be repeated without the multimeter.

[mashman]

Heya, came across this thread when I was searching on the AF1 forums for my own battery problems. Could be related?


http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/showthread.php?221386-****Correct-battery-replacement-procedure-Must-read


Cheer Rusty... t'has been a while since I've been on AF1. Can't believe it took them 6 years to figure this crap out. It could explain the false starts when cold... will remember to do it when we goes a testing tomorrow, should the battery still have a decent charge that is.

[ducatilover]

If your battery isn't holding charge then...it might pay to sort that.
It's injected isn't it? If so, an intake leak would cause the idle to hunt up/down and so would a rooted oxy sensor (in theory) but if you've got a loose header pipe or something of the sort you may get too much O2 to the oxy sensor, or the gas flow will root everything.

I'd be putting $$ on your low battery voltage though.
Have you got a Multimeter? If so, check the charge rate and check for current drop when the ignition's off. :niceone:

If you get stuck, feel free to bring it up to me...

[tigertim20]

Cheers for the suggestions... I'm thinking battery though. The Prila does seem to love to kill them. I charged the battery to 14.16v, just had a cig in the garage and measured again, 13.36 and falling. It's not connected and it isn't holding a charge. Kinda disappointing as it's an AGM battery and the last battery that was killded by the Prila turned it into Perry the Platypus...

Not ruling out that there isn't another problem, but 2 batteries dead, hmmmmm. What kills battery's? (according to Mrs M it's luggin a fat bastards arse around, biotch) Fuck I hope I don't have to replace another stator too.

look to fix the cause, not just the symptoms. going through batteries fast? check your stator output, and check how much power the regulator is sending to the battery when running, and across a range of RPM.

[mashman]

If your battery isn't holding charge then...it might pay to sort that.
It's injected isn't it? If so, an intake leak would cause the idle to hunt up/down and so would a rooted oxy sensor (in theory) but if you've got a loose header pipe or something of the sort you may get too much O2 to the oxy sensor, or the gas flow will root everything.

I'd be putting $$ on your low battery voltage though.
Have you got a Multimeter? If so, check the charge rate and check for current drop when the ignition's off. :niceone:

If you get stuck, feel free to bring it up to me...

I haven't connected the battery since the charge and it's initial reading was 14.16. Now down at 13.08.

Iffen I get annoyed with it I'll bring it up for wheely practice :bleh:


look to fix the cause, not just the symptoms. going through batteries fast? check your stator output, and check how much power the regulator is sending to the battery when running, and across a range of RPM.

I thought I had. The RR was suspect on these models and I've performed the mod (removed, rewired, relocated) and have the mosfet RR that folk are recommending. I'm kinda stuck in regards to what the problem might be. I'll have a pop at checking the stator tomorrow, been postponing that little treat, but know how to do it and what the voltages should be, just really really don't want to have to fanny around with the stator again as it is a known issue on some of the RSVR's.

[ducatilover]

If the battery drops below 12 by morning then I'd be worried.

Others may have a more professional opinion though, I'm just a Kawasaki owner

[mashman]

If the battery drops below 12 by morning then I'd be worried.

Others may have a more professional opinion though, I'm just a Kawasaki owner

The dash was reporting 11.3v, hence the need for the charge... and the multimeter was reading 11.9v... one of them is lying and neither will own up.

[Latte]

The dash was reporting 11.3v, hence the need for the charge... and the multimeter was reading 11.9v... one of them is lying and neither will own up.



Dash always reads half a volt lower so your numbers arebprob correct. These things aare hard on batteries.

[ducatilover]

Why are they hard on batteries then? Have they got poo stators or poo reg/recs?

[Latte]

Why are they hard on batteries then? Have they got poo stators or poo reg/recs?



Dodgy italian electrics, common faults are stator, reg rec, melting connectors. Drawing current while switched off. Huge draw when starting, list goes on.


What mashie has done with the reg and fixing the connectors fixes most problems, but if sstator is already damaged.

[ducatilover]

Dodgy italian electrics, common faults are stator, reg rec, melting connectors. Drawing current while switched off. Huge draw when starting, list goes on.


What mashie has done with the reg and fixing the connectors fixes most problems, but if sstator is already damaged.

Sounds like a job I could fix... Mashie, bring that bike up here and I'll have it sorted in a Jiffy (I'll polish it too)

[mashman]

Dodgy italian electrics, common faults are stator, reg rec, melting connectors. Drawing current while switched off. Huge draw when starting, list goes on.

What mashie has done with the reg and fixing the connectors fixes most problems, but if sstator is already damaged.

Aye, did the broon connectors a few years ago, popped a new stator in about 18 months ago, about 6 months ago a battery got pooked and am seriously considering modding the lights in some way (coming on 10 seconds after start would be nice), as ya say it's supposed to have a heavy draw.


Sounds like a job I could fix... Mashie, bring that bike up here and I'll have it sorted in a Jiffy (I'll polish it too)

I'm wondering if she'll make it that far :rofl:.

was gonna head out for a test today but a serious pork lunch put pay to that idea :wings: On the plus side the battery is holding at just over 13v.

[Akzle]

the battery is holding at just over 13v. your batt is probably OK (unless the cell resistance is poked).
I can't imagine what would have such a massive draw on it, even if everything does come on when the engine kicks, the reg should be putting out enough voltage to cover it.
check for losses to ground...

[mashman]

your batt is probably OK (unless the cell resistance is poked).
I can't imagine what would have such a massive draw on it, even if everything does come on when the engine kicks, the reg should be putting out enough voltage to cover it.
check for losses to ground...



I hate takin the plastics off but will have a go tomorrow night providing I ain't working late, again. I know where one of the grounds is and it's a bitch to get to but unfortunately don't know my way around measuring current etc... short, no pun, of checking the battery and the stator output (which I will check tomorrow). When I rewired the stator I added plug n play connectors so should be easy enough to do... just gotta take the plastics off ugh. Cheers

[Akzle]

I hate takin the plastics off but will have a go tomorrow night providing I ain't working late, again. I know where one of the grounds is and it's a bitch to get to but unfortunately don't know my way around measuring current etc... short, no pun, of checking the battery and the stator output (which I will check tomorrow). When I rewired the stator I added plug n play connectors so should be easy enough to do... just gotta take the plastics off ugh. Cheers
the 'ground' should be any metal on your bike.. engine mounts, bolts, frame, exhaust etc OR the negative battery terminal...

to find if you have a short to ground, disconnect your negative lead, set multimeter to 12v, touch one of your multimeter wires to the battery post and the other to the disconnected battery wire, if voltage shows up, you have a short to ground, pull fuses one by one (replacing before pulling the next one) to find which circuit the leak is on. for fear of stating the obvious: this will be indicated by 0 voltage when the fuse is removed.
NB: if you are NOT using a DMM/digital meter make sure you connect with correct polarity or you will f*ck your analogue meter. conversely, if it is a digital, it will show up the negative annotation, but display correct voltage.
to measure current you need either a DC capable near-field type meter (which, being non-contact, generally have high current ratings) or a multimeter with at least 20A DC capability. you need to connect your multimeter in-line (in series) with the component being tested, to test total draw on the battery you would do same described above but with the positive lead. to test a light bulb you would unplug the crimps on the hot wire and put your multimeter leads to each of the ends.
however for testing magneto/charging output, voltage readings (at the battery and/or at the regulator) generally suffice, that voltage should be no higher than 14.8V.

[mashman]

the 'ground' should be any metal on your bike.. engine mounts, bolts, frame, exhaust etc OR the negative battery terminal...

to find if you have a short to ground, disconnect your negative lead, set multimeter to 12v, touch one of your multimeter wires to the battery post and the other to the disconnected battery wire, if voltage shows up, you have a short to ground, pull fuses one by one (replacing before pulling the next one) to find which circuit the leak is on. for fear of stating the obvious: this will be indicated by 0 voltage when the fuse is removed.
NB: if you are NOT using a DMM/digital meter make sure you connect with correct polarity or you will f*ck your analogue meter. conversely, if it is a digital, it will show up the negative annotation, but display correct voltage.
to measure current you need either a DC capable near-field type meter (which, being non-contact, generally have high current ratings) or a multimeter with at least 20A DC capability. you need to connect your multimeter in-line (in series) with the component being tested, to test total draw on the battery you would do same described above but with the positive lead. to test a light bulb you would unplug the crimps on the hot wire and put your multimeter leads to each of the ends.
however for testing magneto/charging output, voltage readings (at the battery and/or at the regulator) generally suffice, that voltage should be no higher than 14.8V.

Brilliant, thanks for the info. The ground is on the engine I believe.

Battery post? Do you mean the battery terminal? If so then isn't that just completing the circuit? Yes I realise what a stupid question that is, but I know not how multimeters work. Anyhoo, I put 1 on the battery terminal and 1 on the negative cable and received the full voltage. I initially received the negative reading, then after swapping the connectors received the positive voltage. :rofl:@fear of stating the obvious. I figured that's what you meant, but being "new" at this, tis always good to know :yes:. I guess I'll start pulling fuses if you confirm that battery post and batter terminal are the same thing?
I'll get around to the current test at some point as my multimeter does have 20A dc capability.

[Akzle]

the ground is all of the above, you'll probably find that the wire going to the battery will bolt into the frame quite close by. as well as going to a heavy gauge black wire in the loom. this gives the entire frame ground potential.

battery post=terminal -- the lead bit sticking out of the battery with the "-" beside it.

yes, connecting the multimeter between the post and the wire will complete the circuit, but if the bike is off, there should be no circuits 'on' to complete. so it should show NO voltage when the bike is off.

if the bike is on and running, putting red multimeter lead to positive terminal and black lead to black terminal should give you ~14v

you wont need to worry about the current measurements at this stage, as if the right voltage isn't coming from your regulator, the current sure as shit isn't there.

[mashman]

yes, connecting the multimeter between the post and the wire will complete the circuit, but if the bike is off, there should be no circuits 'on' to complete. so it should show NO voltage when the bike is off.


Gotcha... ok so I did what you suggested earlier. Pulled each of the fuses and nuffink zero'd the voltage. Next :)

[Akzle]

oh dear.:confused:

wage war on italy? :ar15:


well, easiest option: just to put a kill switch in the hot wire straight off the battery,
mount it somewhere easy (on the frame, where you can reach it without taking fairings off)
you can get something awesome like 263697 ((this is a cover, y9ou still need a switch like http://www.jaycar.co.nz/productView.asp?ID=ST0579&form=CAT2&SUBCATID=978#1))
then turn it off after you take the key out...flip it back on to start again.

as far as i know, and an eye-talian may be able to correct me, nothing should be on when the bike is off...?

what you decribe indicates an unfused circuit (or a short straight off the battery -- which would have murdered it by now. is the positive battery lead rubbed through at all?).
so get out your shop bible (whattaya mean you don't have a manual??) and see what's unfused. then you get to test all those circuits individually!!

[Akzle]

the other-other option is to flip your multimeter around to it's 10A range (i assume it has one, most do) now
TAKE THE NEGATIVE LEAD OUT OF THE GND plug on multimeter, and STICK IT IN THE 10A SOCKET -failure to do this may blow your multimeter.
if it doesn't have one or you are at all confused, refer to your shop manual.

with the multimeter in the above config, hook it up as before (between post and lead) - this will tell you how much current is being drawn in the off state.
anything above, say 40mA is too much. if your DMM is autoranging it will say 40mA, if it is not it will come up something like 00.04 (depening on the resolution of your meter)
depending on how often you ride it (daily?) up to 1A MAY be OK, but probably worth fixing anything over 40mA.

before you go to test anything else, put the ground lead back in it's GND socket -- trying to test voltage with it in 10A config will blow your meter.