Killing my engine with kindness?

[MikeL]

Those who have ridden with me know that I am a fairly conservative rider. I have never red-lined my XJR, and it rarely gets more than 3/4 of the way to the limit (9.500 rpm). At 150 kph in top gear it is doing about 6,000 rpm I think, and with plenty of torque there's rarely any reason to change down below 4th.
Someone I was talking to recently said that engines which are kept well below maximum revs all the time can develop problems if they are then taken up to the limit. Something to do with piston travel and cylinder wear I think, but I can't recall the exact details. Can any technical-type person confirm this and say what sort of problems may occur and how likely this is?

[XTC]

Bullshit.... The piston travels just as far at 1/2 revs as it does at full revs... Tell your mate he's a dick.

[John]

And if it did, then thats what they call valve clap and despite the name - its not fun :lol:

edity: If your valves are seated right and adjusted properly it wont matter.

[XTC]

Valve clap??? Is that an STD?

[John]

No, its like a party game that your engine plays :D

[Zed]

Those who have ridden with me know that I am a fairly conservative rider.Hmmm, I've ridden with you enough now to categorize you in the next level up from a conservative rider Mike!

Sorry I can't answer your technical question but I have heard over the years that bikes/cars run better if you give them a good old thrashing from time to time!! :Punk:

[White trash]

Fucken oath Mike, you're being way too soft on it. Gimme the keys for a weekend mate, I'll sort it out.

[bugjuice]

I think the *only* 'damage' you can do with running the engine soft all the time is carbon build up around the valves and a few other spots. Over a long period (almost years and years), it'll build up, and then one day someone is going to have to crack it open and clean it out. The easy way to fix this is once a while, give it some stick.. about 2/3s from the red line in whatever gear you fancy should be fine for a minute or two.. and then ride it again how you want.. Nothing wrong with takin it easy tho. The engine pretty much works the same at any revs and any pressure, just does it faster or slower

[MSTRS]

There is a lot of merit in giving an engine a thrash semi regularly. Kills the spiders, don't you know.
Would you buy a car from someone who'd never driven it over 70kph for example?

[Riff Raff]

Would you buy a car from someone who'd never driven it over 70kph for example?
would that be that one careful lady owner we keep hearing about?

[MSTRS]

would that be that one careful lady owner we keep hearing about?
definitely

[avgas]

yeh i think it depends alot on how much you dont give it to a motor. I think your XJR will be fine, but i have me the occasional person that never took engines past the 1/2 way mark - and theyre motors/drivelines etc were fucked.
My neighbours holden is a classic example, cos it keeps pissing me off. Every day that bastard starts up his car at 6, leaves it to warm up in our shed.......he drives the same way he does eveything in his life - slowly and pathetically.
His holden sprays shite all over the shed and coats everything in a greasy mess.
He has had it tuned 6 times this year, and it has travelled prob less then 2000ks.

if he just gave me 30 mins with his car i could solve all his problems, one way or another :devil2: :nono:

[Paul in NZ]

I don't think its as big an issue as it was in the old days with better oils and fuel etc. (carbon build up)

A good thrashing now and then is good for it though. (as well as dogs, wives and walnut trees apparently)

[Motu]

If not used your powerband will shrink with lack of use....and when you finaly use it,it will snap - you've been warned.

[Rincewind]

I don't think its as big an issue as it was in the old days with better oils and fuel etc. (carbon build up)

A good thrashing now and then is good for it though. (as well as dogs, wives and walnut trees apparently)
HEY steady on old chap Wive's and Dogs yes, be carefull with those Walnut trees though,they got long memories, youll be riding home one day from a luvvly day out and whammmm (where did that come from, F***in Wallnut tree in the middle of the road)...

[sAsLEX]

the old story was that ferraris that would only be driven on sundays by rich and untalented, would be taken out by their mechanics and driven nice and fast for a bit to blow out the cobwebs

[Two Smoker]

I go by KK's engine treatment (he treats engine with the upmost respect by my standards) When you start riding, let the bike warm up, this usually takes 5 minutes riding keeping it below 3-4000rpm... Then once warm take it upto at least 80% of the rev range a few times... Then you will be happy as larry... (i hear this larry chap is a happy guy) Personally my bikes spend most of their time in the upper 40% of the rev range...

[oldfart]

Those who have ridden with me know that I am a fairly conservative rider. I have never red-lined my XJR, and it rarely gets more than 3/4 of the way to the limit (9.500 rpm). At 150 kph in top gear it is doing about 6,000 rpm I think, and with plenty of torque there's rarely any reason to change down below 4th.
Someone I was talking to recently said that engines which are kept well below maximum revs all the time can develop problems if they are then taken up to the limit. Something to do with piston travel and cylinder wear I think, but I can't recall the exact details. Can any technical-type person confirm this and say what sort of problems may occur and how likely this is?

Mike, I wouldn't pay any attention. Having been riding with you a couple of times I can see your XJR is nicely used, just not thrashed. XJR's were designed for this, not being flogg :2thumbsup ed

[FROSTY]

Mike seriously dude on ya next ride run her up to redline a few times.It cant and wont do any harm.
My brains a bit fried today but as I recall the rings go a tiny bit higher at high rpm -Ie the metal flex /stretches and also the carbs gum up in the unused area.--Ill explain it better later.
The long and short of it is give it a bit of rpm stick from time to time

[MikeL]

Mike seriously dude on ya next ride run her up to redline a few times.It cant and wont do any harm.


Perhaps next time I do SH16 I should stay in 1st gear the whole way...

[pritch]

the old story was that ferraris that would only be driven on sundays by rich and untalented, would be taken out by their mechanics and driven nice and fast for a bit to blow out the cobwebs


That story isn't that old either. Friend of mine was telling me that they had a Ferrari in and couldn't get it to run right. They phoned the "experts" and were told that these things are meant to be driven at warp speed. Hubby,however, takes it to the office and Wifie takes it to the supermarket and after a few weeks they think it needs another tune up (under warranty of course).

So I was wondering about CBRs,GSXRs etc, does this sort of thing apply?
Do people living in Auckland find their sports bikes running rough after a weeks commute?

[FROSTY]

Perhaps next time I do SH16 I should stay in 1st gear the whole way...
now you're taking the mickey aincha?? copying ol frosty :devil2:

[pete376403]

Mike seriously dude on ya next ride run her up to redline a few times.It cant and wont do any harm.
My brains a bit fried today but as I recall the rings go a tiny bit higher at high rpm -Ie the metal flex /stretches and also the carbs gum up in the unused area.--Ill explain it better later.
The long and short of it is give it a bit of rpm stick from time to time
There was/is a theory that at low revs the rings remain at the bottom of the ring grooves in the pistons, but at high revs they will float to the top of the groove (which is a thou or two wider than the ring) at the top of the stroke. This overlooks the fact that there is pressure from the gases above the rings holding them down.
But yeah, as Frosty says, give it the berries from time to time, won't hurt and probably will help. What really kills new engines is heat, caused by making the engine lug at low revs, in too high a gear, for fear of over-revving

[Zapf]

Mike seriously dude on ya next ride run her up to redline a few times.It cant and wont do any harm.
My brains a bit fried today but as I recall the rings go a tiny bit higher at high rpm -Ie the metal flex /stretches and also the carbs gum up in the unused area.--Ill explain it better later.
The long and short of it is give it a bit of rpm stick from time to time

how do I do that on my Gixxer without breaking the legal limit and also not inavertantly doing a wheelie? :whistle:

[NordieBoy]

You need to correct your gearing so it tops out at 160kph :D

The Nordie is at 70% at 100 so squirts up to 130kph to pass "objects" works nicely.

Oh and it means they get to 100 rather rapidly as well :D

[750Y]

i've driven some older cars owned by elderly gentlemen & the engines just purred & were quiet & clean whereas the same engines in cars that the boys had got their hands on were rattly,dirty & smoking. I don't think it'll hurt it to give it a wind out from time to time but don't think You've got anything to worry about either.

[sAsLEX]

Do people living in Auckland find their sports bikes running rough after a weeks commute?

my bike gets decent working in the Lanesplitting Gp every morning............

[F5 Dave]

When one builds a race engine you have to allow clearance at the top of the piston so it doesn’t strike the head. Similarly the valves. On a small engine this may be as little as 0.5mm, but on a real big engine a couple of mm may be in order. The reason for the difference is the clearances of the bearings, & heat expansion but largely the inertia of the piston etc stretching the rod. Hence the heavier the piston assembly & the faster the revs the more the issue.


Mike

If the bore was to wear heinously then the idea is the rings may go from larger area & into the tight area. Once the bore wears this much the engine is due for a recon anyway & the rings aren’t going to snap as they might have done in grandpa’s model T. Forget about it.

The reason the folklore exists is likely the plugs get a bit cleaner & some carbon may potentially get unlodged helping the valves seat better (never a real prob in tuned newish engine). Also the rings that may have been stuck from old tech gummy oil are now sealing to the bore better. If you change the oil at all & don’t use the remnants of an old drum you found next to the Model T, ignore the above.

At the end of the day; it’s a 1400, ride the torque & enjoy it. Only a dickhead is going to be revving the snot out of it like a 250/4. They’ll be buying a GSXR.

PS: No offence to Dickheads. Membership card holder :yes: .

[Ixion]

I think this folklore relates more to engine temperature than revs. It is just that a hard drive at highish reves is the best way to get the engine really hot. And it's more a cage thing I think.

Mrs Ixion's Nissan Sunny is only used by her for going to the shops and local tootling. She drives very slowly and gently. Result is that the engine never gets really hot. Water temperature will show normal but the oil, exhaust system etc are not REALLY hot.

So, she (to her annoynace) goes through far more exhaust systems, batterys etc than I do.

If I check the plugs they are usually sooty. Much time idling and running with the choke on, and they never get hot enough to burn off the crud

I take it for a fast(well, comparatively :rofl: ) caning once in a while to clean it up. Always runs better after that.

Getting the engine really hot will dry out the crevices of the exhaust system where acidic moisture collects, steam off any water and low boiling point hydrocarbons from the oil, clean the plugs, dry off and burn away carbon deposits etc.

Always very noticeable on two smokers. They really need a caning every so often.

Also, it's a good excuse !.

[ManDownUnder]

sounds like you and I have similar riding styles. Heaps of torque on the RF so I don't need to thrash it - ever really... not with my commuting style.

I do like to give it a clean out from time to time though. Make sure every things gets nice and hot rather than wram, test out the engine over the full range, and put her through her paces.

As it transpires - it's fun too (who ever would have guessed that?!?)
MDU

[Lou Girardin]

You aren't hurting it, MikeL. as long as you don't lug it at low revs or constantly ride at the redline and maintain it properly it'll last damn near forever.
I'm willing to bet that most of the hotshots on their sportbikes don't spend much time in the last 1500 revs of their rev counter either.
Even datalogging of MotoGP bikes show that they're seldom at full throttle/max revs.

[2_SL0]

Problems arise from idling around all day long, you dont do that so I wouldnt stress about it. A big issue can be related to temperature, make sure the engine is getting up to temperature. (Ensure its NOT running cold) It certainly does not hurt to open them up every so often, and can help clean out any carbon buildup. But fuels and oils have improved. I imagine you ride your bike how the manufacturer designed it to be ridden.

[MikeL]

The XJR doesn't get used for commuting so prolonged idling, short runs and low temperatures are not going to be relevant.
The problem is that in order to get anywhere near the redline I would have to be doing highly illegal speeds in any gear except perhaps first.
Anyway it appears from your answers that the whole thing is a bit of a myth, so I'll just continue as before.

[Pixie]

Valve clap??? Is that an STD?
I think he means vulva

[MikeL]

I think he means vulva

We knew that. We just thought that it would be in better taste to ignore it...

[SARGE]

Do people living in Auckland find their sports bikes running rough after a weeks commute?


i come down the NW CarPark every morning.. the old 1200 really clogs up after a few days of this .. saturday morning i blow it out though and she runs sweet after that ( carbs have been worked though and it tends to load it up at low rpm's)

im considering getting a GN250 for commuting on

[MikeL]

i come down the NW CarPark every morning.. the old 1200 really clogs up after a few days of this .. saturday morning i blow it out though and she runs sweet after that ( carbs have been worked though and it tends to load it up at low rpm's)

im considering getting a GN250 for commuting on

That's one of the reasons I kept my Honda 400 when I bought the bigger bike. The Honda doesn't mind the commuting - I can get up some decent revs in the lower gears without breaking the speed limit.

[enigma51]

I think old fart hit the nail its not a sports bike it used for touring so its not made to be trashed so it should be fine

[inlinefour]

they need to be thrashed and it does not take long to start doing the same to other bikes. I reckon a motor needs a good thrashing every so often :devil2:

[froggyfrenchman]

as best i can tell its quite good togive her a good thrashing every now and then, burn off that nasty carbon build up

[GB500nz]

Understressing the engine will just make it last longer, but cold idling (as mentioned above) will kill it. When everything's cold and the engine's idling, stuff condenses on the rings and grooves and gradually forms a hard glue that locks the rings in place. As soon as the oil's circulating you should go, but at low speed and moderate revs, with the choke off. This warms the engine faster and more evenly. Keep it below 4000 until it warms.
Terry