Harley V-Rod pipes and tuning?

[Foghorn]

All, I was wondering if I could get some advice.... I have recently purchased a 2012 Vrod Anniversary, but it is very quiet.... so I was wanting to get the bike louder, obviously I have a few options....

I could get the baffles drilled out or get new slipons, or of course a whole new system. This issue for me comes to tuning the bike, from everything I have read so far, it looks like I need some sort of power commander (or like device) to get the correct maps for the bike and exhaust combination, but it also looks like that some of them have no maps installed and you have to get your bike on the dyno to get these created...

Am I missing something, or is it just going to cost me a decent amount of cash to get the bike louder?

Any input greatly received.

[Road kill]

bugger,, Good luck.

[Road kill]

Go to the HD Forums site an you'll find several very good threads on this very subject,,,plus you won't have to put up with all the tossers that are going to put shit on you for owning an HD like your soon going to here.
Good luck.

[skinman]

just talk to yourself continually while riding , that should be loud enough :laugh:

[Foghorn]

Thanks Road kill,

Tried reading the HD forums, but sadly still very confusing.... nothing seems to be straight.

[Foghorn]

Probably on just skinman...... At least my horn is loud....
:bleh:

[skinman]

wot
wasnt I helpful :eek:

[skinman]

could try asking the custom chambers guy
he should a least be able to give some pointers

[Foghorn]

Yeah talked to him, he was very helpful and said I could get the baffles drilled out, but then need to get the tuning done, and thats where it all gets a little confusing of what can and cannot be done, and what extras I need to buy to get it running quickly.

[skinman]

I would have thought that compared to the cost of that bike an exhaust mod & retune would be insignificant or a least not too much.
I guess that getting a remap depends on what you do to the exhaust. you will have emission control stuff that will need to be tricked into thinking all is fine

[Foghorn]

Yeah thats what I was thinking as well.......

[skinman]

have you tried talking to AMPS?

[Foghorn]

Yeah sent them an email, and all they cam back with was a load of prices for different bits, with absolutely no explanation..... I thought I might try road and sport tomorrow.

[98tls]

http://www.google.co.nz/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=V-rod+custom+exhaust&source=web&cd=9&ved=0CJsBEBYwCA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tabperformance.com.au%2F&ei=XRO2T6XBO4SaiQeN9sXbCA&usg=AFQjCNEpULLE9hP9KWhNwlMk_dpN3h-1Mg Bike shops are in the business of making money (obviously) so will do there best to sell you all sorts of shite you dont need (why wouldnt they) but if its just a set of cans theres no reason to buy anything else,no matter what bullshit the makers of exhausts come out with a set of cans will do little more than make the thing sound better which from what i gather is all your after...no need for the rest of it you havent messed with the airbox nor the fueling.It will sound better but much of the claimed hp increases is nothing but wank.Theres lots of interseting stuff on the web if you type in V rod exhaust.

[skippa1]

I ve got a good friend with a 2010 V Rod Muscle and he has been through all this. He drilled the baffles and it helped a little as they do sound like a sewing machine with the standard pipes. He then got a set of V&H slipons, filter and power commander. It had to be dynod and air fuel mix set.....heres the crunch though....the power commander essentially over rules the ECU so it will override changes made by the ECU to allow for altitude, temp, 02 levels etc and so whilst it may run perfect on the tuning machine, if you change altitude or there are other changes, it may run too rich or lean. He is having hells own time with it, he is fussy about his bike but he does get carbon puffs out of the exhaust depending on where he is etc. He has been back to the shop a few times now....no joy. The other issue is that his fuel consumption has gone up consderably. He is now wondering if it was worth it at all.

I have been doing the same with the Victory, I just put some Conquest Customs Ocane pipes (pic on my profile)on and talked to them in the states. He said the same thing.....dont get a power comander because of tuning issues and the fact that it overides the ECU. A Victory tune to the ECU itself is on the way and a Lloyds ide air valve should get me close to right.......its not a precise science and not cheap.

Good luck

[Foghorn]

Thanks for that info skippa1, I was thinking that the onboard ECU would be able to cope with the change of the cans, but I can't find anything that really confirms that, I was very concerned about fuel consumption going up.

I have read the Tab Performance stuff as well thanks 98tls, it comes down to the same issue, although I may not have to put it on the dyno as they have already done the maps for them.

[skinman]

If it helps I didnt change anything when I put new pipes on mine, no change in gas consumption either

[98tls]

No problem.When i started mucking about with my old bike ie gutting the airbox,was considering bigger headers etc i bought a Yoshimura fuel ingector adjuster,old school power commander really,less adjustable etc but the advantage is its plug n play and if you fuck it up its simple to return everything to factory settings,,no charges for someones dyno and said dyno is only as good as the guy in charge of the thing,twice ive seen bikes put on a dyno and i swear to god my dog would have had more of an idea about what was going on,if it wasnt so sad it would have been amusing.

[Gremlin]

Can't speak specifically to the cruisers or HD, but a power commander simply modifies the signals sent by the ECU (+ or - a number). It plugs in between the ECU and engine, so can be removed with no lasting effect. They normally come with a zero map installed, which basically means it does nothing to the signals from the ECU.

Powercommander would have maps available for download, but you'd need to have the same bike, same fuel, same altitude etc. Therefore downloaded maps would only get you close. A custom map should be the best your bike could get (but obviously costs more). The more you modify, the more likely you will need a custom map to get the ideal tune.

[haydes55]

Thanks Road kill,

Tried reading the HD forums, but sadly still very confusing.... nothing seems to be straight.

>>reading the HD forums, but sadly still very confusing.... nothing seems to be straight.

> reading the HD forums, nothing seems to be straight.

[The Lone Rider]

Any exhaust mod or change will result in a change in the way the engine runs. How picky you want to be about tuning it is up to you.

There are a couple of products you can use.

One type of system will allow you to download Pre-Sets to it. You go to their website, enter in your bike/engine, and the aftermarket parts you have newly installed. This only will be accurate if you have exactly the same aftermarket parts as listed for their pre-sets. You may have to settle for something close to what you have. This is the way to go if you're buying common over the shelf aftermarket parts, like Vance And Hines pipes.

Another system will allow you to program the way it works. For this you will need the bike take to the appropriate place that can work with the device, have the bike dynoed, then have them tweak the unit to what it needs to be. This is the way to go if you modify the exhaust, but also not a disadvantage if you use aftermarket parts as you can get very specific settings to your bike.



There are variations on either type of system, depending on the product selected. Some have dials that allow you to change the mapping on the side of the road (ie... swap to a mapping for higher altitude).


At the end of the day... you only need the retune it if you absolutely need or want peak performance, or if you are making a significant change (like fully open exhausts).

Modify them yourself. Costs you nothing. Better to try first, then to just go right out and spend money on a new V&H exhaust.

Here's what I can make a 250 sound like with simple modification
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10150692522045141&set=vb.228131685255&type=2&theater


-- FYI... Cobra exhausts tend to be VERY loud. So maybe avoid if you only want a little bit louder.

[skippa1]

Any exhaust mod or change will result in a change in the way the engine runs. How picky you want to be about tuning it is up to you.

There are a couple of products you can use.

One type of system will allow you to download Pre-Sets to it. You go to their website, enter in your bike/engine, and the aftermarket parts you have newly installed. This only will be accurate if you have exactly the same aftermarket parts as listed for their pre-sets. You may have to settle for something close to what you have. This is the way to go if you're buying common over the shelf aftermarket parts, like Vance And Hines pipes.

Another system will allow you to program the way it works. For this you will need the bike take to the appropriate place that can work with the device, have the bike dynoed, then have them tweak the unit to what it needs to be. This is the way to go if you modify the exhaust, but also not a disadvantage if you use aftermarket parts as you can get very specific settings to your bike.



There are variations on either type of system, depending on the product selected. Some have dials that allow you to change the mapping on the side of the road (ie... swap to a mapping for higher altitude).


At the end of the day... you only need the retune it if you absolutely need or want peak performance, or if you are making a significant change (like fully open exhausts).

Modify them yourself. Costs you nothing. Better to try first, then to just go right out and spend money on a new V&H exhaust.

Here's what I can make a 250 sound like with simple modification
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10150692522045141&set=vb.228131685255&type=2&theater


-- FYI... Cobra exhausts tend to be VERY loud. So maybe avoid if you only want a little bit louder.


Close but not quite......HD and Vics come from the US running very lean due to emissions laws. If you change exhaust ormake it breathe you need to richen it up or you will burn valves or even melt a piston if you get had on the gas.
Even a custom tune on a Power Commander when dynod sets a state of tune for certain set of circumstances, I repeat, it overides the ECU and it wont run the same unless the same circumstances are present. Suit yourself what you do, its your money but choose wisely, the guy I know has spent over $4k on all this now and the bike isnt running right...his words....I wish I had left it alone.

[skippa1]

by the way, there is a world of difference between a boulavard, a 250 or grandads ol bike and yours, you now that, you chose an HD Vrod. The same applies to the tune, you cant just fuck around with it wthout upsetting other parts of the performnce, so whilst there are those that have altered their bike and added a PC or similar, did they have a 50 state bike, did they have ehaust 02 sensors, did they have idle air valves that lean itout in closed throttle.....

[DMNTD]

I ve got a good friend with a 2010 V Rod Muscle and he has been through all this. He drilled the baffles and it helped a little as they do sound like a sewing machine with the standard pipes. He then got a set of V&H slipons, filter and power commander. It had to be dynod and air fuel mix set.....heres the crunch though....the power commander essentially over rules the ECU so it will override changes made by the ECU to allow for altitude, temp, 02 levels etc and so whilst it may run perfect on the tuning machine, if you change altitude or there are other changes, it may run too rich or lean. He is having hells own time with it, he is fussy about his bike but he does get carbon puffs out of the exhaust depending on where he is etc. He has been back to the shop a few times now....no joy. The other issue is that his fuel consumption has gone up consderably. He is now wondering if it was worth it at all.

I have been doing the same with the Victory, I just put some Conquest Customs Ocane pipes (pic on my profile)on and talked to them in the states. He said the same thing.....dont get a power comander because of tuning issues and the fact that it overides the ECU. A Victory tune to the ECU itself is on the way and a Lloyds ide air valve should get me close to right.......its not a precise science and not cheap.

Good luck

Am I wrong in thinking that a PC5 (as opposed to a PC3) can allow/modify for such circumstances?
I also believe that it can run several different maps too.

[jrandom]

To the OP, do what I did to my Nightster a week after I bought it - get a holesaw up it and whack the baffles out.

You can splash out on fancy aftermarket pipes and tuning later. (In the meantime you're probably in the same boat as me and still paying for the bike itself.) Reality is it'll still run fine. You might notice reduced fuel economy. Probably more so than I do, but not to any prohibitive extent. Maybe it'll have a slightly fluffier throttle response, but you won't notice it if you're not looking for it.

Anyway, if you just bought a brand new V-Rod, fuel economy wasn't your priority, was it? And V-Rods have proper-sized tanks, so you'll still have decent range off a fill.

There's no actual need to spend thousands straight up if you just want a bike that doesn't sound like a sewing machine. Just unbolt the pipes, drop them off at your local engineering workshop, and tell them to make them choice.

[nadroj]

As I understand it, the critical point in the RPM range is at the point the db (noise rating) is taken at. This is because the factory lean the fuel as much as possible to quieten it at the regulated RPM monitoring point.
When exhaust modifications are made, air-flow is increased which needs a corresponding increase in fuel to avoid leaning out. This becomes critical as the leanest point is in the RPM range most used for hard acceleration.

[tnarg]

My dad got this from Vince and Hines http://www.fuelpakfi.com/vtwin/aboutfuelpak.html for his Fat Bob. He put screaming Eagle pipes on it and some aftermarket air filter on it. The price from the states is good and is easy to install.

[Foghorn]

Thank you everybody for your input, some very good information. I really do appreciate it.

[Maha]

The more you modify, the more likely you will need a custom map to get the ideal tune.

I was told that when I asked...(not emailed) direct to the machanic who was going to fit a slip-on to my bike/s
You only need a custom map when fitting a complete system.
Go straight to the Dealer from which you bought the bike Foghorn...and ask the question.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Thank you everybody for your input, some very good information. I really do appreciate it.

Hey there Brendan! If you're simply gonna remove some baffles etc from the mufflers, the bike will generally fuel fine without having to use a PC or a Pro Tuner etc. It's normally when you change complete exhaust systems and air cleaners etc that the fuelling can get a bit hairy.

You won't do any major harm by just trying it after a minor muffler mod. The injection can self compensate + or - rich or lean 10%.

Hope you're enjoying it!

Pete

[Foghorn]

Thanks for that Pete, I was concerned I would do some damage by swapping them and not getting a Pro Tuner or something. So very relieving to hear that all should be ok, I am not really after changing the the air filter or the full pipes if I can help it.

But yes I am really enjoying the bike, so glad I made the purchase, thanks again for all your help.

Brendan

[Scouse]

Yeah talked to him, he was very helpful and said I could get the baffles drilled out, but then need to get the tuning done, and thats where it all gets a little confusing of what can and cannot be done, and what extras I need to buy to get it running quickly.Just go to AMPS talk to Shane in the work shop, they do these mods every day of the week so they know what they are doing. Main thing to remember when you open up your exhaust system, is that the bike will run too lean if your fueling is not right, this will cause over heating and could lead to severe engine damage. so the only realistic option is just to pay the man some money to take care of it.

By the way I am running a K & N air filter and V & H Black Widows for mufflers and the put out a good amount of noise, I also gained a reasonable HP increase in original trim my Night Rod was putting out 105HP at the rear wheel with the map that is used for the bike to run it in with as they usualy prefer to dyno after the run in period. Ok so after the dyno custom remap it is putting out 117HP at the rear wheel.


I hope this is of some help

Cheers
Steve

[skippa1]

Am I wrong in thinking that a PC5 (as opposed to a PC3) can allow/modify for such circumstances?
I also believe that it can run several different maps too.

the guy I am talking about that has the Vrod muscle has used a PC5......no joy. They can run several different maps and can be custom mapped as well. I know when I talked to both Loydz and Conquest Customs in the US regarding my Vic, they both said to avoid the PC's and Lloyds even said that their own brand of custom tuner(saem as a PC really) wont cope with changes of 02, altitude etc. The Vic runs a air fuel mix of 13.4:1 and you can use the tuner to command the delivery of that mix in any rev range which is cool, but what it doesnt see is any change in air density so therfore cannot allow for it.
The proof of their words in my book are the results that my friend has had. It doesnt run great in all rev ranges and in the South Island ran like a bucket of arseholes. (I think he stopped off and saw you guys in Wellington MC on the way north Pete)

[skippa1]

Hey there Brendan! If you're simply gonna remove some baffles etc from the mufflers, the bike will generally fuel fine without having to use a PC or a Pro Tuner etc. It's normally when you change complete exhaust systems and air cleaners etc that the fuelling can get a bit hairy.

You won't do any major harm by just trying it after a minor muffler mod. The injection can self compensate + or - rich or lean 10%.

Hope you're enjoying it!

Pete

Petes right, just be aware that the V&H + filter = a different kettle of fish. My mate drilled the baffles and it ran great but the noise was still pretty quiet.

[The Pastor]

this is what you should do.

1. Get a custom chambers system (go on, its worth it), way cheaper than buying a branded system.
2. Get power commander and get AMPS to install / tune it.

[Crasherfromwayback]

this is what you should do.

1. Get a custom chambers system (go on, its worth it), way cheaper than buying a branded system.
2. Get power commander and get AMPS to install / tune it.

Part 1 is ok advice.

Part 2 should read "get a Pro Tuner".