Buying a MIG

[bogan]

Anybody know of a decent deal? Theres heaps of different brands, and I'm wondering if it is the type of tool which manufacturers can build cheaply and properly, or whether a reputable brand is worth a bit extra?

for example, difference between these two?
http://www.trademe.co.nz/business-farming-industry/industrial/manufacturing-metalwork/welders/auction-479073880.htm
https://machineryhouse.co.nz/W1099

Also, how much is bottle rental?

[Jantar]

Ther are quite a few available here http://www.globalplanesearch.com/aerobatic/jets/mig/

I quite like the look of the 21u. :drool:

[Bikemad]

what ya planning to weld and how often?

[bogan]

Fairly often, mostly light stuff 6mm thick or less. Would like to make up a trailer at some point, but may be able to upgrade the welder by then if required. Really just need one for a bit of machine building over the next 6 months.

[Bikemad]

both the welders you linked to are more home handyman types in my opinion........if you are gonna be doing a lot of 6mm its at the pointy end of its capabilities and duty cycle...........trouble is when you start upping the amps tp say a 225/250 single phase the average 10 amp home circuit has trouble supplying without tripping the breakers...........i'd suggest gettin a sparky to wire in a 16 amp plug in ya shed if you decide on a more tradesman type machine

[Zedder]

BOC charge $30.00 per month for bottle rental but there's the option of using flux core MIG wire instead of gas. A 4.5 kg roll is about $130 retail but there's always good deals around.

[Nova.]

buy own bottle and get it refilled?
you probably already know but your welds have to be up to scratch in-order to get a cert for your trailer, and how its built i guess?

[bogan]

Yeh good point about being at the limit. Something more like these should do it?

https://machineryhouse.co.nz/W1101

http://www.trademe.co.nz/business-farming-industry/industrial/manufacturing-metalwork/welders/auction-478465686.htm

[bogan]

BOC charge $30.00 per month for bottle rental but there's the option of using flux core MIG wire instead of gas. A 4.5 kg roll is about $130 retail but there's always good deals around.


buy own bottle and get it refilled?
you probably already know but your welds have to be up to scratch in-order to get a cert for your trailer, and how its built i guess?

Reckon rental gas sounds cheap enough, will just have to charge out a few jobs with it!

[Maha]

Ohhhhh a welder?...thank fuck for that, for a moment there I thought you would need parking space at Ohakea..:rolleyes:

[bogan]

Ohhhhh a welder?...thank fuck for that, for a moment there I thought you would need parking space at Ohakea..:rolleyes:

I'll take runways 2-7, though they might need a resurfacing afterwards, I'm not a fan of heights...

[Ocean1]

I've had a good run from this brand.

And at least Roger's got an actual address. Not far from yours as it happens...

http://www.coastalmachinery.co.nz/details.php?cat=6&id=9992

[Bikemad]

yeah the machinery house one looks more the go............it's got a way better duty cycle compared to the others and has a stepless amp control and wire speed.......better for fine tuning...........grab some .8 wire and tips when you buy it,good for panelsteel repairs/welds...........but you probably be wanting a .9 wire for most other stuff.........i haven't had a lot of experience with fluxcore wire but have used it more in heavy fabrication.....10/12mm amd bigger....also ask about the gas options...........i'm not sure but i think you can run co2 as a cheaper option to argoshield

[Bikemad]

I've had a good run from this brand.

And at least Roger's got an actual address. Not far from yours as it happens...

http://www.coastalmachinery.co.nz/details.php?cat=6&id=9992

yeah thats a nice machine......same maker.....gruntier and does stick as well

[bogan]

yeah the machinery house one looks more the go............it's got a way better duty cycle compared to the others and has a stepless amp control and wire speed.......better for fine tuning...........grab some .8 wire and tips when you buy it,good for panelsteel repairs/welds...........but you probably be wanting a .9 wire for most other stuff.........i haven't had a lot of experience with fluxcore wire but have used it more in heavy fabrication.....10/12mm amd bigger....also ask about the gas options...........i'm not sure but i think you can run co2 as a cheaper option to argoshield

Thanks for the advice, will see what coastal machinery want for theirs, but looks like a weldtech should be the way to go.

[240]

Both of those welders are light use models (which is ok for home use, I have a similar spec one as the machinery house one myself).
I have welded commercially with mig,gas,tig,and arc.
The main criteria of a welder is the duty cycle . http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=9099.
I would guess that both would be o.k for what you want, its mainly the time you can weld continously that matters.
My only concern is that if you are buying online you REALLY need to see the quality of the wire feed system (especially the drive roller) as some of the chinese stuff is absolute shit and the drive grooves wear out real quick and there is no local companies that want to or will help you out.
I would ask them to throw in a few drive rollers in with the deal.
Make sure you keep the torch as straight as possible when you store it (normally in a gentle large loop)as the cheaper ones tend to bind as they age.
Not knowing the duty cycle of the NUweld model I would probably go for the machinery house one only because if the specs are similar, "bigger is better' for case size (for cooling).
I would buy from a physical store that you can get parts and service from.:niceone:

[Akzle]

yep. depends on your usage for duty cycle (MMAW is better here)
IMO get a mid range one, whichever way you go, if you're set on mig then preferably that will do gas+gasless.

owning gas bottles is a pain in the arse.

tradezone have good range.

but why not get a TIG+Arc combo... =better. tig will do all your allys and stainless and fancy fine weldin' etc and arc is sweet for general fab/repair works...

i'm ashamed to admit i own a chinese welder (140A mmaw) but it does for what i wanted it to do, and being arc welding, your duty cycle doesn't matter so much as the best you're going to do is burn through a whole rod, most often though you only need to do 4" weld at a time...
and there's SFA difference between it (for a couple hundred bucks) and the cuzzy's BOC which cost about 800$ and is only slightly lighter. (altho it does have HF start for tig adapt...)

the other-other option -- a set of 400A jumper leads, arc handpiece and two old truck batteries...

[AllanB]

If it's just a trailer you are welding and 6mm steel a good old stick welder will do the job well if you are capable. Often passed by these days but a good user can produce strong clean welds. Ideal for trailer building etc.

[bogan]

If it's just a trailer you are welding and 6mm steel a good old stick welder will do the job well if you are capable. Often passed by these days but a good user can produce strong clean welds. Ideal for trailer building etc.

Plan on doing a fair bit of machine building too. I learnt on a stick welder, but I'm planning on much more work for it than just the odd job, so the time and annoyance saved from a MIG over an ARC or TIG will be worth it. I just wanted to figure out the best MIG for my uses, and the info given on duty cycle helped heaps :niceone:

[AllanB]

Hear ya Bogan. A mig is on my wish list. I've looked at the 'economical' (ahem) ones and figure spending more on a decent unit is the way to go. Consequently I've not got one yet! There must be a day when my children stop costing me money ha ha ha.

[unstuck]

There must be a day when my children stop costing me money ha ha ha.

Yeah, its usually the day when your grandkids start costing you money. Do not buy a cheap mig(unless it is a good brand,going cheap) cos they are shit and cause that much frustration that it is just not worth it. The cheap heap of shit mig I bought got attacked with a 20 ton digger, OH what a feeling.:devil2:

[jellywrestler]

Anybody know of a decent deal? Theres heaps of different brands, and I'm wondering if it is the type of tool which manufacturers can build cheaply and properly, or whether a reputable brand is worth a bit extra?

for example, difference between these two?
http://www.trademe.co.nz/business-farming-industry/industrial/manufacturing-metalwork/welders/auction-479073880.htm
https://machineryhouse.co.nz/W1099

Also, how much is bottle rental?
why not get a tig, much more versatile too?

[bogan]

why not get a tig, much more versatile too?

Tig is slower, harder to get into corners, costs more in gas and wire, and can't do one handed welding. Great for jobs when you have to have a TIG, but I wouldn't call them versatile. My flatmate has one that will do stainless so that sorts out the exhaust jobbies! A TIG that can do ali is on the wish list, but want a really decent one for that (2k or more), as the cheap/shitty ones are harder on the tips, and harder to weld with.

[DEATH_INC.]

You can ally weld with a mig too....
Get a gas bottle, gasless is not as good. It's all been said before, go for the best duty cycle you can afford. Next is adjustability, then make sure you can get bits/backup for it.
Buy one from a respectable dealer, it may cost a bit more, but it'll be worth it the first time you have a problem....
And I use .6 on the lighter stuff, way nicer than .8, and you'd be surprised how well it'll stick thicker stuff with a bit of prep....but again, something you can get bit's for it won't be a problem to be set up for both :cool:

[nallac]

I would forget buying new and get this one, http://www.trademe.co.nz/business-farming-industry/industrial/manufacturing-metalwork/welders/auction-478969502.htm
I had one the same, awesome welder, good for trailer building, i did 2, panel work as well.
I wish I never sold it. Would be 2k+ to buy new.

[jasonu]

Get a name brand like Miller, Hobart or Lincoln with 150 amps or better. If anything goes wrong with a good quality unit you will always be able to get parts for it.

[Grubber]

I went cheap on the MIG when i got one and kicked myself for doing it.
spend a some extra dosh and get one with a good duty cycle and good name brand and it will last you forever.
I now have an invertor stick welder for all i need to do and it's friggin awesome.

[carburator]

my last mig unit cost 2k from boc themselves.
You definitly want the eurogun conector throw away the useless gun that
comes with it and get a bernard.

Austarc ( yellow ones? ) WMA? hell its so dented I can't tell
but has a remote wire feeder builtproof machine.

6mm, hell a decent 250amp .9 wire would piss that no problems

my three phase DIY unit will weld 16mm plate 1.2 wire no issues
except for the heat! the cone gets bloody hot!

chinese shit is just that shit...

[Ocean1]

Get a name brand like Miller, Hobart or Lincoln with 150 amps or better. If anything goes wrong with a good quality unit you will always be able to get parts for it.

Oh yeah, a replacement simple drive card for my Miller was going to cost more than the machine that replaced it.

[Ocean1]

Austarc ( yellow ones? ) WMA? hell its so dented I can't tell
but has a remote wire feeder builtproof machine.

No longer made, you can't even get parts.

[nallac]

No longer made, you can't even get parts.

The WIA?... If it helps, Auckland welder repairs is run/owned by guys who made WIA welders when they were made on the Shore.
WIA are still getting made.

[Ocean1]

The WIA?... If it helps, Auckland welder repairs is run/owned by guys who made WIA welders when they were made on the Shore.
WIA are still getting made.

WIA's NZ distributors had no idea 5 years ago about that, I sent 2 $5K pulse-plasma MIGs to the tip.

[flyingcrocodile46]

I bought a DC 130 amp Inverter/Arc/Tig/Plasma cutter (in hard plastic casing so it looks a lot like the XM180 PRO Mig welder in one of your links) because it welds a wider range of metals plus is supposed to be better for thin sheet work (AC/DC is better for welding aluminum, though I am told it is possible with DC if you are good at welding) plus a plasma cutter adds the extra benefit of being able to cut as well (the real reason was I scored it for $500 new) :2thumbsup. I was also told that it is too easy to get a good looking but weak weld which might fail with a Mig welder (gets hot enough to stick to the metal but maybe not heat the base metal enough for the weld to merge properly with the base metal if you aren't careful). If you are going to get a Mig why not get a 200 amp (or bigger) so you can also weld Aluminum?

BTW I can't weld to save my life and am yet to fire the sucker up and start learning :o

[bogan]

I bought a DC 130 amp Inverter/Arc/Tig/Plasma cutter (in hard plastic casing so it looks a lot like the XM180 PRO Mig welder in one of your links) because it welds a wider range of metals plus is supposed to be better for thin sheet work (AC/DC is better for welding aluminum, though I am told it is possible with DC if you are good at welding) plus a plasma cutter adds the extra benefit of being able to cut as well (the real reason was I scored it for $500 new) :2thumbsup. I was also told that it is too easy to get a good looking but weak weld which might fail with a Mig welder (gets hot enough to stick to the metal but maybe not heat the base metal enough for the weld to merge properly with the base metal if you aren't careful). If you are going to get a Mig why not get a 200 amp (or bigger) so you can also weld Aluminum?

BTW I can't weld to save my life and am yet to fire the sucker up and start learning :o

Yeh I think its is doable, but you have to swap the ground with the electrode so the ali doesn't oxidise??

Plasma cutting is the only thing that temps me to go with arc/tig over mig; but with the success of my makita 185mm skill saw with a ali blade, I think Ill try out a ferrous blade next.

Not a fan of mig for ali, alright for bigger jobs like boat hulls, but really want a pedal control for the precision ali I would be welding.

I'm thinking the weldtech XM180 looks like the go; I'll give it a heap of work in the year under warranty, so it'll be well tested.

Best thing to do when learning is to do little welds (30-50mm) then brake them open again and check for penetration.

[Madness]

Go & talk to the guys at TradeZone in Tremaine Ave before you buy out of town. XcelArc machines are very good value for money & the guy behind them here in N.Z is a GC.

[Akzle]

I bought a DC 130 amp Inverter/Arc/Tig/Plasma cutter (in hard plastic casing so it looks a lot like the XM180 PRO Mig welder in one of your links) because it welds a wider range of metals plus is supposed to be better for thin sheet work (AC/DC is better for welding aluminum, though I am told it is possible with DC if you are good at welding) plus a plasma cutter adds the extra benefit of being able to cut as well (the real reason was I scored it for $500 new) :2thumbsup. I was also told that it is too easy to get a good looking but weak weld which might fail with a Mig welder (gets hot enough to stick to the metal but maybe not heat the base metal enough for the weld to merge properly with the base metal if you aren't careful). If you are going to get a Mig why not get a 200 amp (or bigger) so you can also weld Aluminum?

BTW I can't weld to save my life and am yet to fire the sucker up and start learning :oi
ll take that off your hands and put i to use if ya want...


Yeh I think its is doable, but you have to swap the ground with the electrode so the ali doesn't oxidise??

Plasma cutting is the only thing that temps me to go with arc/tig over mig; but with the success of my makita 185mm skill saw with a ali blade, I think Ill try out a ferrous blade next.
arc gouging rods!

yeah swapping the leads over keeps the heat in the table/piece, not sure about the oxidising thing though...

[flyingcrocodile46]

Yeh I think its is doable, but you have to swap the ground with the electrode so the ali doesn't oxidise??



Why can't you TIG weld Aluminium with DC current?

You can TIG weld it beautifully with AC, but if you turn the TIG welder to DC it doesn't work.... You don't get a nice little weld pool, the sample seems to overheat and deform and it goes all black on the outside. The welding rod just leaves circular globules on the top that don't melt to the main body. You can happily do stainless and other steels on DC, but not Aluminium.

Because of the oxide layer on aluminum. The melting point of Aluminum is just 660C while that of aluminum oxide is over 2000C. When you use AC, you actually are constantly breaking off the oxide coating by thermal cycling. Remember, Aluminum Oxide (or alumina is a ceramic, and is very brittle, so it breaks off easily. With DC, you get nowhere because you're heating the oxide but not enough to melt it.

Steels don't oxidize nearly as easily as Aluminum and their oxides are not nearly as nasty. So they can be welded happily using DC.


To TIG welder Aluminum on DC set up the machine just as you would for welding steel... Use straight Helium (you can mix a little Argon to help clean) and use normal 4043 rod (5356 rod will not work). Placement of the rod is key with DC Straight. It will ball up really fast if placed poorly.

I'm thinking maybe the gas mixture reduces the oxidising?



http://youtu.be/ySM6rvwwkGs

[nallac]

WIA's NZ distributors had no idea 5 years ago about that, I sent 2 $5K pulse-plasma MIGs to the tip.

Damn that sucks........ woulda been about 6 years ago i used em to fix the wire feed on my old WIA. Cheap to fix to. Does help when they actually made my welder.....

[carburator]

WIA 205 bernard gun ( single phase )

ive replaced a couple of the relays with omron ones
and the main power relay ( hence the reason is was on the scrap pile )
its a neat machine from sheet steel to throwing down a 10mm V butt
weld

weldwell 220 bernard gun ( single phase )
admittly i did'nt first feel the love for this machine even brand new

weldwell 165 ...

well the gun it comes with is shit.. and its not a euro connect either
nozzle screws on one way the tip the other so do one up the other comes undone..
does'nt like a long tip ( i whip at least 4mm off the tip before use in the lathe. )

the welder itself, well with .9wire power 4 feed 3 seems to be the only setting it likes
Id do 5mm plate with it, certainly you get the weld pool going and do the mig wiggle
it produces a nice weld pentration is not great but for light fab work in sheet steel its
nice to use.. key with this welder is prep grinding those V's

264185

have a Xcel/arc tig/arc ac/dc machine for tig its good
personally i can't weld alloy with it to save myself at all
either I need to set the foot control up on it and hit the right settings?

and Mate ive personally cut alloy plate upto 100 thick with a BIG skillsaw
and lots of lube being sprayed on works a treat! ( fine tooth carbide tip blade )

[bogan]

Went to BOC and Techweld/tradezone today. Techwelds xcel-arc stuff looks good, but is a bit more than I'm wanting to spend, probably cos it does Tig and Stick as well. BOC seem to have a nice wee 180amp MIG (http://www.bocworldofwelding.com.au/magmate-180p.html) for a bit cheaper than the weldtech one I was looking at, and being local is a plus. Only thing is it doesn't have a wire feed adjustment, I guess that just means it changes the feed speed according to the current setting?


have a Xcel/arc tig/arc ac/dc machine for tig its good
personally i can't weld alloy with it to save myself at all
either I need to set the foot control up on it and hit the right settings?

and Mate ive personally cut alloy plate upto 100 thick with a BIG skillsaw
and lots of lube being sprayed on works a treat! ( fine tooth carbide tip blade )

Foot control makes alloy welding a lot easier, and good prep of course.

Good to know, may need to cut some largeish round bar with it soon.

[carburator]

Went to BOC and Techweld/tradezone today. Techwelds xcel-arc stuff looks good, but is a bit more than I'm wanting to spend, probably cos it does Tig and Stick as well. BOC seem to have a nice wee 180amp MIG (http://www.bocworldofwelding.com.au/magmate-180p.html) for a bit cheaper than the weldtech one I was looking at, and being local is a plus. Only thing is it doesn't have a wire feed adjustment, I guess that just means it changes the feed speed according to the current setting?

Foot control makes alloy welding a lot easier, and good prep of course.

Good to know, may need to cut some largeish round bar with it soon.

Ive got a spool gun for alloy that I have setup on a Plusemig that I can use rather well!

A lot of guys might cringe ( cutting alloy bar we have put a carbide tipped blade into a drop
saw and have the bar clamped Uber tight! ) DON"T even try with a skillsaw mate...

see if you can have a test drive of a demo unit?

reading the blurb for it, the voltage control act's as the wire feed control
probably use the unductance control to fin tune?

[jasonu]

Oh yeah, a replacement simple drive card for my Miller was going to cost more than the machine that replaced it.

Sounds like someone was trying to diddle you.

[Ocean1]

reading the blurb for it, the voltage control act's as the wire feed control
probably use the unductance control to fin tune?

Yes, it's usually labeled wire speed but it also changes the voltage.
There's a trim-pot on the drive card that changes the voltage range relating to the wire feed setting. On any new machine I always play with that to suit whatever wire / work I'll be using the machine for. On two machines I've wired an external pot in series with the trim-pot so I can fuck with it on the fly.

On one machine the volts were so far out I couldn't wind the wirefeed up past about 40%, even though the wire I was using should have allowed full noise. Going down on wire size just to get more volts is silly, that was the first machine that got the above mod.

Oh, and I've routinely cut 20mm 7K series tooling plate with a 10" skillsaw. However, I'd kick the apprentice's arse if he tried it.

[Ocean1]

Sounds like someone was trying to diddle you.

It's a national sport mate.

They don't get to deal with me again.

[The Lone Rider]

Anybody know of a decent deal? Theres heaps of different brands, and I'm wondering if it is the type of tool which manufacturers can build cheaply and properly, or whether a reputable brand is worth a bit extra?

for example, difference between these two?
http://www.trademe.co.nz/business-farming-industry/industrial/manufacturing-metalwork/welders/auction-479073880.htm
https://machineryhouse.co.nz/W1099

Also, how much is bottle rental?

A cheap gasless one from Trademe (less than $400) was what was mainly used to build this

What I couldn't weld had more to do with my skill than the welder, in my opinion. So I tacked it and got other people to finish weld on their gas rigs.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/553737_245273782235281_245215305574462_459272_1013 014050_n.jpg

[carburator]

Yes, it's usually labeled wire speed but it also changes the voltage.
There's a trim-pot on the drive card that changes the voltage range relating to the wire feed setting. On any new machine I always play with that to suit whatever wire / work I'll be using the machine for. On two machines I've wired an external pot in series with the trim-pot so I can fuck with it on the fly.

On one machine the volts were so far out I couldn't wind the wirefeed up past about 40%, even though the wire I was using should have allowed full noise. Going down on wire size just to get more volts is silly, that was the first machine that got the above mod.

Oh, and I've routinely cut 20mm 7K series tooling plate with a 10" skillsaw. However, I'd kick the apprentice's arse if he tried it.

Interesting, might have a look at that mod to the weldwell one i have.
as its a (bleep) for setting up.. hence its in the corner never used..

[bogan]

So I bought the MagMate 180p, but due to some localised power outages, it may be best to run it as a 90p :p

Does real nice welds on 3mm thick steel though. And there is a switch for fast/slow wire speed, in addition to the voltage setting, which has come in handy to add more wire to the thinner stuff. I have no idea what the inductance dial does, the salesperson told me it was to help with the gasless welding rubbish.

The only issue with it is the quick couple (which is a nice feature) for the gas leaks a bit, so I'll take it in and see what they reckon, good to buy local.

Got a chur helmet too, can actually see both while I'm welding, and after I've been welding, pretty ideal that :D

[fuknK1W1]

https://www.google.com.au/search?tbm=isch&hl=en&source=hp&biw=1092&bih=533&q=mig+aircraft+for+sale&gbv=2&oq=mig+air&aq=5S&aqi=g4g-m1g-S5&aql=1&gs_l=img.1.5.0l4j0i5j0i24l5.3172.7076.0.15228.7.7. 0.0.0