Helen in high speed road race! Innocent lives in danger

[curious george]

http://xtramsn.co.nz/news/0,,11981-4621188,00.html
Except the cpos were driving, so it was OK....
Well, apparently it's not OK after all.

[Motu]

I don't see what all the fuss is about,apart from media hype.I think a Police or armed forces escort for our head of state should be free to speed if necessary,this could be a situation of national (or Labour?) importance - called it a training exercise and close the lid.

[sAsLEX]

i think this is shit aye, helen should step forward and take the rap as it is her that had them doing that.

Sure she can say all she likes about it was their decision, but if the head of your nation asked you to get there in time would you? as a public servant?

kinda like asking Zed if god asked him to do something would he, well kinda

[Sniper]

I know if I was caught doing that, would I still have my license?

[Motu]

Are our police,ambulance,firemen,armed and special forces allowd to speed in the course of their duties? Should we take that right away from them?

[James Deuce]

Are our police,ambulance,firemen,armed and special forces allowd to speed in the course of their duties? Should we take that right away from them?

No they're not. Thanks to a deaf, blind old biddy on pedestrian crossing. Ambos in particualr seem to have had a kicking in the last couple of years and their discretion to use a little more speed has been put in question.

I do agree with the point. We aren't privvy to everything that the PM is, and there may well be a very good reason for the extra burst of speed.

[matthewt]

I do agree with the point. We aren't privvy to everything that the PM is, and there may well be a very good reason for the extra burst of speed.

I believe at the time it was so she could be in ChCh to watch an All Black test match.

I wonder what our friend Andy at the LTSA has to say on the matter.

[ManDownUnder]

I do agree with the point. We aren't privvy to everything that the PM is, and there may well be a very good reason for the extra burst of speed.

Agreed - but that's for the courts to decide.

And it seems they decided not to call Helen or Jim to the stand... which I finbd dissappointing - but then... using my own reasoning, the courts had a reason to not call them...

MDU

[Lou Girardin]

The extra "burst of speed" was a 140 -160k (depending who's telling the story) average from Waimate to ChCh. Including high speed through 50k areas. There were complaints from other drivers about the manner of driving too.
But Ms clark says she didn't know how fast they were going because she was doing "paperwork". I bet the "paperwork" was wiping her sorry arse after shitting herself.
Typical Pollie to let the troops take the rap, they wouldn't have decided to speed on their own.

[ManDownUnder]

The extra "burst of speed" was a 140 -160k (depending who's telling the story) average from Waimate to ChCh. Including high speed through 50k areas. There were complaints from other drivers about the manner of driving too.
But Ms clark says she didn't know how fast they were going because she was doing "paperwork". I bet the "paperwork" was wiping her sorry arse after shitting herself.
Typical Pollie to let the troops take the rap, they wouldn't have decided to speed on their own.

You're a bloody cynic Lou!

Next you'll be saying she wishes she didn't get caught up in all this...

[madboy]

Okay, so let me try and get this straight... it's okay to exceed the speed limit if you're on urgent business? But doesn't the LTNZ say speeders are killing us?

So is there a link between exceeding the speed limit and dangerous driving? Putting aside Helen's efforts for a minute, can someone with a better understanding of physics than I explain how having flashing lights and sirens contribute to a vehicles mechanical grip on the road?

Perhaps someone should tell the Formula 1 boys - if they stuck lights and sirens on Schumacher's car, he'd be able to corner at higher speeds without falling off the road, and he'd be able to brake short of every deaf mute old lady who walks out in front of him.

[spudchucka]

But Ms clark says she didn't know how fast they were going
Having spoken to somebody that would know, I'd say she knew exactly what was going on.

[mikey]

why deosnt don brash pick this up an put it on one of his bill boards. make it a personal war as well as the ficitcious policies that just arent happening war.

maybe helen will pull somethign out of brashs past. would be good to see them go at it.

[crashe]

ok try this out for a scenerio.(sp)

If you were sitting in the back seat of a car and someone else was driving it.
Would you be looking at the speed or even taking note of the speed, if say you were looking at/reading a book/paperwork.
Sure you may look up occassionally... but would you really take it in, if you were concentrating on the paperwork or speech at hand.

Would you as the passenger expect to get a ticket.
NO.
The ticket goes to the driver of the car.

So why should Helen be charged. She was a passenger.

It was up to the driver to drive at a safe speed.

Yep she had to catch a plane... but thats another story.

Its about the speed of the vehicle.

I know that Helen write's her speeches on the run on most occassions....
and reads heaps as soon as she is in a vehicle... thats part of her job.

[TonyB]

Having spoken to somebody that would know, I'd say she knew exactly what was going on.
I would say that if she was awake at the time, there is no way she wouldn't have known. Witnesses claimed that they could hear the engines screaming from some distance away. Much of that road is not exactly smooth- straight and boring as hell, but not smooth.

I believe that the PM and her motorcade should be able to speed in situations of national importance. I'm not sure that a game of footy qualifys.

Many politicians bleat on about how we need to take responsibility for our own actions, and I agree with them. Shouldn't the PM take responsibility for hers, instead of blaming it on the people who are paid to protect her and follow her instructions? Wouldn't you just love to have her as your boss? She has a habit of dropping 'employees' in the shit to protect her reputation.

[unhingedlizard]

not for or against any argument here, but bare in mind thaty the driver of the car was probably trained to drive these vechicles at high speeds, the vehicles themselves are clearly capable of it (had my ute at 160 once overtaking without realising it, on a sealed test track of course) and the speed limits on our roads were not put thier for me in a falcon ute, or you on a Gixxer 1000k5 but for bad/inexperienced/stupid people so that when the inevatable crashes happen, they wont be so sever.
The biggest problem i think people have over this issue is the attitude "well i got a ticket for doing 150 so that means so should they".

[Lou Girardin]

ok try this out for a scenerio.(sp)

If you were sitting in the back seat of a car and someone else was driving it.
Would you be looking at the speed or even taking note of the speed, if say you were looking at/reading a book/paperwork.
Sure you may look up occassionally... but would you really take it in, if you were concentrating on the paperwork or speech at hand.

Would you as the passenger expect to get a ticket.
NO.
The ticket goes to the driver of the car.

So why should Helen be charged. She was a passenger.

It was up to the driver to drive at a safe speed.

Yep she had to catch a plane... but thats another story.

Its about the speed of the vehicle.

I know that Helen write's her speeches on the run on most occassions....
and reads heaps as soon as she is in a vehicle... thats part of her job.

Her "urgent" business was the reason they were speeding. At the least she should have been done for aiding and abetting.

BTW. Unless things have changed, public service drivers never had high speed driver training. Or do cops drive the limo's now?

[MikeL]

At the least she should have been done for aiding and abetting.


Have you ever known of a passenger being charged with "aiding and abetting" in a speeding case?

And have you ever known of a speeding driver successfully shifting the responsibility onto a passenger?

[Lou Girardin]

Have you ever known of a passenger being charged with "aiding and abetting" in a speeding case?

And have you ever known of a speeding driver successfully shifting the responsibility onto a passenger?

I've heard of aiding and abetting charges for dangerous. I believe that's what these guys are facing. In fact there's one before the courts in West Auckland now. The aider and abettor was even in a different vehicle.

[spudchucka]

And have you ever known of a speeding driver successfully shifting the responsibility onto a passenger?
Kidnapping.

[madboy]

I've heard of aiding and abetting charges for dangerous. I believe that's what these guys are facing. In fact there's one before the courts in West Auckland now. The aider and abettor was even in a different vehicle.What you're forgetting is that Helen wasn't in a sacked out Jappa rocket with chromies... rules are different for middle aged drivers of Falcons and Commodores.

[idb]

why deosnt don brash pick this up an put it on one of his bill boards. make it a personal war as well as the ficitcious policies that just arent happening war.

maybe helen will pull somethign out of brashs past. would be good to see them go at it.
If I remember correctly, The Don was on his own high speed journey through the streets of Wellington on the same mission.
Or that's what it said in the paper....so it must be true....

[SPman]

Other than those who subscribe to the "politics of envy" scenario, does anyone really give a toss?

I don't!

[Pixie]

I don't see what all the fuss is about,apart from media hype.I think a Police or armed forces escort for our head of state should be free to speed if necessary,this could be a situation of national (or Labour?) importance - called it a training exercise and close the lid.
Because they keep telling us you die if you exceed 100kph

As for that tart,she says she wasn't aware the car she was in was doing 180kph? What is she? Blonde?

[Pixie]

No they're not. Thanks to a deaf, blind old biddy on pedestrian crossing. Ambos in particualr seem to have had a kicking in the last couple of years and their discretion to use a little more speed has been put in question.

I do agree with the point. We aren't privvy to everything that the PM is, and there may well be a very good reason for the extra burst of speed.
A football game,apparently

[Pixie]

Okay, so let me try and get this straight... it's okay to exceed the speed limit if you're on urgent business? But doesn't the LTNZ say speeders are killing us?

So is there a link between exceeding the speed limit and dangerous driving? Putting aside Helen's efforts for a minute, can someone with a better understanding of physics than I explain how having flashing lights and sirens contribute to a vehicles mechanical grip on the road?

Perhaps someone should tell the Formula 1 boys - if they stuck lights and sirens on Schumacher's car, he'd be able to corner at higher speeds without falling off the road, and he'd be able to brake short of every deaf mute old lady who walks out in front of him.
Maybe they need a hag in the back too :devil2:

[James Deuce]

A football game,apparently

Remember the apparently bit. Politicians, Diplomats, and Heads of State don't do just one job at a given time. Bit like CEOs. I'm not saying they're better people, just a shitload busier than you could conceive of. Clinton, for all his apparent randiness, averaged 4 hours sleep per night for 8 years. 3 when he had an intern in.

Bush gets ridiculed for his afternoon nap. I'd probably fall asleep spontaneously if I'd been living like that too.

[Dafe]

I heard a news article very recently about Police Vehicles being used on the road without Warrants. Now thats Bullshit!!! and it's quite a common practice apparantly.... :nono: Mr Orifice :nono:

[Lou Girardin]

It appears that the prosecution is calling 31 witnesses! the trial is expected to take 2 weeks. All this for a dangerous charge?
The police bosses are really out to hang these guys aren't they?
Meanwhile Clark and her trough feeders think of some more ways to control our lives. And leave these guys, who were acting on her instructions, out to dry.
I really hope her Govt is demolished in September, I'm starting to loathe her as much as I did Shipley and that's saying something.

[James Deuce]

It appears that the prosecution is calling 31 witnesses! the trial is expected to take 2 weeks. All this for a dangerous charge?
The police bosses are really out to hang these guys aren't they?
Meanwhile Clark and her trough feeders think of some more ways to control our lives. And leave these guys, who were acting on her instructions, out to dry.
I really hope her Govt is demolished in September, I'm starting to loathe her as much as I did Shipley and that's saying something.

I'm getting the same feeling.

[Krayy]

It appears that the prosecution is calling 31 witnesses! the trial is expected to take 2 weeks. All this for a dangerous charge?
The police bosses are really out to hang these guys aren't they?
...
Just out of interest, why would all these guys fall on their swords anyway? If convicted, their police careers would be effectively over wouldn't they? Or are there 5 new plain clothes roles, and 1 DPS admin role that have just opened up in the last couple of months?

[WINJA]

ITS HARD TO BELIEVE ALL THIS SPEEDING IS BAD BULLSHIT WHEN THE PEOPLE THAT SHOULD KNOW BETTER DONT ADHERE TO THE RULES , HELEN WOULD KNOW HOW FAST SHE WAS GOING AND THE PERSON WITH THE COUNTRYS TOP JOB SHOULD HAVE SAID HEY DRIVER WE HAVE LAWS IN THIS COUTRY BUT SHE DIDNT , THE DRIVERS IN THAT MOTORCADE SHOULD BE PROSOCUTED TO THE MAX , FUCKEM HOW CAN PIGS HAND OUT SPEEDING TICKETS WHEN THEY DO THIS SORT OF SHIT IN THEIR UNWARRENTED CARS

[Ixion]

Bit of a shit position for the driver to be in though. On the one hand your boss telling you that the Prime Minister, no less, has ordered you to get to the destination by X oclock. If you get there late you'll be in the poo and probably lose your job.. But if you get there on time by driving fast, you're in the poo anyway. What's the driver to do ?

[Wolf]

Many politicians bleat on about how we need to take responsibility for our own actions, and I agree with them. Shouldn't the PM take responsibility for hers, instead of blaming it on the people who are paid to protect her and follow her instructions? Wouldn't you just love to have her as your boss? She has a habit of dropping 'employees' in the shit to protect her reputation.
To be a politician - even a low ranking one reading a newspaper while driving - is to be immune to responsibility. You can pass a new law that effectively halves the wages of several thousand employees, placing them below the "poverty line"; you can make changes that result in hundreds of people losing their jobs - and not need to be responsible for any of the lives you've ruined. You can break the law and get away with it. And you can pass a law that makes anyone who holds any flavour of electrical registration personally responsible for death or injury caused by electricity on any site they have visited.

When I held my A cert, I was informed that if I went to a site that had power cables all over the floor and too many multipoint boxes I had to fill in a form and notifiy the office manager to get it fixed or I would be held liable for any death or injury caused by said cables/multiboxes - all this if I had just popped in to fix a minor computer issue.

Dictated by politicians who don't feel they should even face criminal charges for reading a newspaper whilst driving...

[crazylittleshit]

I don't see what all the fuss is about,apart from media hype.I think a Police or armed forces escort for our head of state should be free to speed if necessary,this could be a situation of national (or Labour?) importance - called it a training exercise and close the lid.
You must remeber that these people are not speeding to save lives there speeding to catch a plane.
Plain and simple how ever told the driver to speed up should take the ticket helen Inculded.
come on nearly everyone here has a ticket why can't helen?

[WINJA]

What's the driver to do ?
OBET THE LAW THEN KICK UP A STINK WHEN YOUR FIRED, I PUT MY JOB ON THE LINE TO DO THE RIGHT THING

[Lou Girardin]

I'm interested to know if the Police and/or Ministerial drivers have told Pollies that they will no longer break road laws for their passengers.

[Pixie]

To be a politician - even a low ranking one reading a newspaper while driving - is to be immune to responsibility. .
Adolf Hitler didn't need to kill himself...He just needed to claim he was in the back of a car reading during WW2
I'm going to e-mail Saddam

[Lou Girardin]

It was reported that a Diplomatic Protection cops has been charged with 12 counts of "aiding dangerous driving". He must have given the directions after being told by Helen's flunky.
It just gets worse for the Prime Mongrel really, does she really think that we believe she didn't order it directly or indirectly?

[Jantar]

The driver of a ministerial car is allowed to speed when on urgent public duty. The big question here is "What is so urgent about catching a plane to a rugby match when there was another plane 35 minutes later that would also have arrived in Wellington on time."

Despite comments to the contrary, I believe Helen when she said that she had no idea how fast they were travelling. After all, she has no idea abount most things that happen in New Zealand. :no:

[badlieutenant]

who really gives a toss. Waste of tax payers money taking it to court as it will change very little and cost alot. And we all wish it was us who could just speed and get away with it.
Is this the dirtiest dirt on our PM? jesus im not going to vote for her, shes too boring. Bring back muldoon, zap him back to health and give him full power like in the good old days.........oh but put him and roger in the same locked room for an hour and put it on pay TV :D
:whocares: :whocares: :whocares: