Which 650cc twin to choose for ProTwin or F3?

[codgyoleracer]

After seeeing the results of the 650 twins class at Isle of man, top 16 are kawaski ER6's, how come more are not at the pointy end or being built in NZ?

All the development for 650 capacity twins seems mostly targeted at the Suzuki, which i know for sure is getting pretty long in the tooth now............Thoughts

[Biggles08]

After seeeing the results of the 650 twins class at Isle of man, top 16 are kawaski ER6's, how come more are not at the pointy end or being built in NZ?

All the development for 650 capacity twins seems mostly targeted at the Suzuki, which i know for sure is getting pretty long in the tooth now............Thoughts

I would say its possibly something to do with $$$ support from the local manufacturers over there vs over here. :niceone:

[CHOPPA]

I would say its possibly something to do with $$$ support from the local manufacturers over there vs over here. :niceone:

I dont think suzuki will be putting much into many of the 650s

[quickbuck]

After seeeing the results of the 650 twins class at Isle of man, top 16 are kawaski ER6's, how come more are not at the pointy end or being built in NZ?

All the development for 650 capacity twins seems mostly targeted at the Suzuki, which i know for sure is getting pretty long in the tooth now............Thoughts

Ummm, watch this space.... eh Chappy ;)

[Tony.OK]

After seeeing the results of the 650 twins class at Isle of man, top 16 are kawaski ER6's, how come more are not at the pointy end or being built in NZ?

All the development for 650 capacity twins seems mostly targeted at the Suzuki, which i know for sure is getting pretty long in the tooth now............Thoughts

All of a sudden this bike (http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/sports/auction-478553656.htm) seems more appealing eh?

[Mental Trousers]

The ER's are much better than the SV at the top end once they're worked a little bit but the SV's suit our relatively tight, point and squirt tracks.

[Crasherfromwayback]

All of a sudden this bike (http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/sports/auction-478553656.htm) seems more appealing eh?

Would seem like a fucking good buy!

[HenryDorsetCase]

All of a sudden this bike (http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/sports/auction-478553656.htm) seems more appealing eh?

If I had $9k I would own that its a bloody bargain!

[Biggles08]

I dont think suzuki will be putting much into many of the 650s

If at all...but they certainly support the road race scene here aggressively and things have a way of filtering through to other classes.

[Grumph]

The Kawa is an absolute honey of a motor - when i looked inside one I said at the time it was everything we had wanted Kawasaki to do to the 500 twin.

The buckets are the same OD as toyota 4AGE...so the literally hundreds of grinds for 4AGE cams all come into play.
4AGE competition springs will fit too - on ZX7 retainers - and they're cheap.
If I did one from scratch I think I'd use 4AGE race valves too - .5mm bigger stems but stronger around the collet area so less likely to pull through.

[slowpoke]

After seeeing the results of the 650 twins class at Isle of man, top 16 are kawaski ER6's, how come more are not at the pointy end or being built in NZ?

All the development for 650 capacity twins seems mostly targeted at the Suzuki, which i know for sure is getting pretty long in the tooth now............Thoughts

Because you and Terry keep flying the Superzooki flag at the pointy end. You guys have been a great advert for the SV's.

[Drew]

My ideal F3 bike would be an RGV framed ER6.

I've given both the SV and ER a thrashing, and the kawasaki is the better motor off the shelf, but the rest of the bike is well fuckin average.

And I don't think it's as easy to swap front ends on the ER as it is the SV, but could be wrong there. Haven't done a bunch looking into it.

[lostinflyz]

cause farqhar and his ER6 dominate so you have to have one, and here glen and terry own on theirs so you have to have one.

was interesting to watch the race from their and here the commentators talk about 12-13k pounds as a cheap race bike. imagine telling that to most people here!!

[Tony.OK]

My ideal F3 bike would be an RGV framed ER6.

I've given both the SV and ER a thrashing, and the kawasaki is the better motor off the shelf, but the rest of the bike is well fuckin average.

And I don't think it's as easy to swap front ends on the ER as it is the SV, but could be wrong there. Haven't done a bunch looking into it.

Much the same as swapping the SV front by the looks of it.

http://www.kawiforums.com/ninja-650r-er6/101215-636-fork-swap.html

[gixerracer]

My ideal F3 bike would be an RGV framed ER6.

I've given both the SV and ER a thrashing, and the kawasaki is the better motor off the shelf, but the rest of the bike is well fuckin average.

And I don't think it's as easy to swap front ends on the ER as it is the SV, but could be wrong there. Haven't done a bunch looking into it.

Your level of stupidness never stops amazing me Drew. Of all the frames you could chose why the hell would you chose a near 20 year old ill handling shitbox like that when you could use an RS250 or tz etc:niceone:

[CHOPPA]

Seen we are dreaming why not just put the er6 in a suter chassis..... Id race that!

[CHOPPA]

Actually a zx6r handles pretty well, you would think it would be easy enough to ezz the 650 in. Im sure Glen has thought about putting the SV in a GSXR. Are they too heavy or something or just not suitable?

[codgyoleracer]

Actually a zx6r handles pretty well, you would think it would be easy enough to ezz the 650 in. Im sure Glen has thought about putting the SV in a GSXR. Are they too heavy or something or just not suitable?

Yeah, waaaay to heavy. Class leader is Tigcraft at mid 70's hp & 100kg ish weight.

Thats pretty hard to match with either ER6 or SV, although Er6 offers greater amount of doner frame options, road based items mostly being all to heavy and with commuter geometry.

[Urano]

After seeeing the results of the 650 twins class at Isle of man, top 16 are kawaski ER6's,



'cause er6 engine is bloody good. torques low and screams pretty high for a twin.
it doesn't drink so much even...

all the probs that the er6 has are not related to the engine, but to a really cheap budget minded dynamic part: swap the fork and the swingarm, change the dumper and the brakes and you'll have a great bike.

then, if you can keep just the engine and put it in a proper frame...

[Drew]

Your level of stupidness never stops amazing me Drew. Of all the frames you could chose why the hell would you chose a near 20 year old ill handling shitbox like that when you could use an RS250 or tz etc:niceone:Because the ER motor is quite wide, and wouldn't fit in an RS frame, it possibly won't even fit in the RGV frame, and they are quite wide between the frame spars to accomodate the air box.

Who's stupid now old man?

[SWERVE]

As if kwakas dominating at IOM twins class isnt enough............... check out Triumph at last round of British Supersport at Snetterton.................. :banana:

[GSVR]

Because the ER motor is quite wide, and wouldn't fit in an RS frame, it possibly won't even fit in the RGV frame, and they are quite wide between the frame spars to accommodate the air box.

Who's stupid now old man?

Talking F3 it comes down to budget and what the rules let you get away with so why would anyone piss around with a ER6 when the Aprilia 550 is legal and is about half the size and weight and makes more power.And the frame and every thing else can be a custom anything you want right?

As for Pro twins here in NZ it is a feeder low budget class any mods are purely for safety/practical reasons just to get a sport/commuter bike race prepped.

The Irish and TT rules are a mix of the two above to keep the class (cheap) ie around 12.000 pound to build a bike.

[Drew]

For pro twins, I'm surprised no one has found a damaged cagiva raptor. Decent brakes and cartridge forks.

[GSVR]

For pro twins, I'm surprised no one has found a damaged cagiva raptor. Decent brakes and cartridge forks.


Don't think Cagiva sold enough 650 Raptors to get homologated. Is it on the list?


http://www.fischer1.com/specs.htm

[HenryDorsetCase]

Because the ER motor is quite wide, and wouldn't fit in an RS frame, it possibly won't even fit in the RGV frame, and they are quite wide between the frame spars to accomodate the air box.

Who's stupid now old man?

I've an NC30 rolling chassis (well its not rolling yet but it could be with a weekends work) if someone wants to measure it up. Or put an ER6 motor in the post to me. :)

[HenryDorsetCase]

For pro twins, I'm surprised no one has found a damaged cagiva raptor. Decent brakes and cartridge forks.

All the ones of that I have seen have been really expensive

[Shorty_925]

Then there's also the Hysoung 650 option as well.

My SV is great. I thought about an ER but a SV come up at the right time instead so went with that. Though in Ireland seems the ER's are the way to go.

Theres Mintwin racing in the UK : http://www.minitwins.co.uk/rules/rules2011a.html

And loose Supertwin rules : http://www.realroadracing.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7883&sid=6f890d2ae0f121afed6b08ed2cdefc0e

And a Supertwin SV for sale : http://www.jhsracing.co.uk/mini_twins.htm POA sounds cheap....

[Gremlin]

Then there's also the Hysoung 650 option as well.
I think I saw somewhere that Hyosung is looking at the viability and interest in running a 650 class in the same format as their 250 class here.

I would imagine it would then make a very good choice, as it would be eligible for pro-twins as well?

[Shorty_925]

I think I saw somewhere that Hyosung is looking at the viability and interest in running a 650 class in the same format as their 250 class here.

I would imagine it would then make a very good choice, as it would be eligible for pro-twins as well?

Yes saw that part in the AMCC newsletter. If the rules for the two are the same then no reason why they couldnt cross over.

[SWERVE]

Yes saw that part in the AMCC newsletter. If the rules for the two are the same then no reason why they couldnt cross over.

Just a way of selling more Hyosungs as race bikes......... only way to make that viable is to set up a one make series. They are eligible for protwin as they are 250 production.... as for contenders for those champs........ need one hell of a rider..............:ar15:
Ask Jay how hard he had to peddle his Hyosung a couple of years back.:brick:

[wayne]

the wheels on the hyosung are just way tooooo heavy

[White trash]

I see that in the lightweight practice, Hillier was clocked at over 146mph through Sulby speed trap. 146mph on a fucken 650 twin! Christ almighty.

[Crasherfromwayback]

I see that in the lightweight practice, Hillier was clocked at over 146mph through Sulby speed trap. 146mph on a fucken 650 twin! Christ almighty.

Nuffin wrong with that. My KR1SP was clocked at 143mph at a flying 1/4 way back when...:innocent:

[HenryDorsetCase]

Nuffin wrong with that. My KR1SP was clocked at 143mph at a flying 1/4 way back when...:innocent:

then it seized and spat you off and you did the last 300m on your back going "ouch"??

[Crasherfromwayback]

then it seized and spat you off and you did the last 300m on your back going "ouch"??

Nothing like that! Not then anyway...

[GSVR]

I see that in the lightweight practice, Hillier was clocked at over 146mph through Sulby speed trap. 146mph on a fucken 650 twin! Christ almighty.

OMG thats almost as fast as the Motocyzcz Battery Bike went last year down there!:jerry:


See the suns coming up over there so we will have some Superbike speeds to compare soon. How much over 200mph?

[Crasherfromwayback]

. How much over 200mph?

10mph over.

[Grumph]

I've an NC30 rolling chassis (well its not rolling yet but it could be with a weekends work) if someone wants to measure it up. Or put an ER6 motor in the post to me. :)

OMG...talk about deja vu...just paint it pink while you're at it....kawa twin in a VFR frame...LOL...repeatedly.

Seriously, the hardest part to accomodate would be the airbox which is ferkin huge. I didn't have a close enough look at GW's bike but I suspect the frame is built around the standard airbox.

The 500 Kawas were doing around 140mph here in NZ back in the day.

[Crasherfromwayback]

OMG...talk about deja vu...just paint it pink while you're at it....kawa twin in a VFR frame...LOL...repeatedly.

Seriously, the hardest part to accomodate would be the airbox which is ferkin huge. I didn't have a close enough look at GW's bike but I suspect the frame is built around the standard airbox.

The 500 Kawas were doing around 140mph here in NZ back in the day.

Yeah but Tony Mc Murdo's was running on funny gas.

[codgyoleracer]

OMG...talk about deja vu...just paint it pink while you're at it....kawa twin in a VFR frame...LOL...repeatedly.

Seriously, the hardest part to accomodate would be the airbox which is ferkin huge. I didn't have a close enough look at GW's bike but I suspect the frame is built around the standard airbox.

The 500 Kawas were doing around 140mph here in NZ back in the day.

Correct, its a tight fit , but it does. Main reason for frame was weight reduction, which is forced upon you if running a 650 boat anchor of Kawasaki, Suzuki or Hyosung design.... :-)

[codgyoleracer]

Just a way of selling more Hyosungs as race bikes......... only way to make that viable is to set up a one make series. They are eligible for protwin as they are 250 production.... as for contenders for those champs........ need one hell of a rider..............:ar15:
Ask Jay how hard he had to peddle his Hyosung a couple of years back.:brick:

Oh Boy, Jay did look ugly on that.....................But then again Jay is ugly.......... :-)

[crazy man]

wish a new who built my zxr400 l was told it was clocked at 150mph but have know idea who built it . it does have the full race kit in it and did run on some good stuff ones

[codgyoleracer]

wish a new who built my zxr400 l was told it was clocked at 150mph but have know idea who built it . it does have the full race kit in it and did run on some good stuff ones

But Andy's does 165 ?

[Grumph]

Yeah but Tony Mc Murdo's was running on funny gas.

First season was on Methanol/Toluene - the frame had to be strengthened before it could handle the 10hp or so extra on Nitro.
i rode it in practise for the GP and being a little (cough) heavier than Tony I could make it flex noticeably.....

My own one with Mark Taylor riding and on Meth/Tol was geared for 140 plus MPH on Wigram and was running into the rev limiter...

i still think that of the 3 "suitable" 650 twins the Kawa has the most potential.

[worm13]

wish a new who built my zxr400 l was told it was clocked at 150mph but have know idea who built it . it does have the full race kit in it and did run on some good stuff ones

thats pretty slow for a 400 over sized to 750!

[Crasherfromwayback]

First season was on Methanol/Toluene - the frame had to be strengthened before it could handle the 10hp or so extra on Nitro.
i rode it in practise for the GP and being a little (cough) heavier than Tony I could make it flex noticeably.....

My own one with Mark Taylor riding and on Meth/Tol was geared for 140 plus MPH on Wigram and was running into the rev limiter...

i still think that of the 3 "suitable" 650 twins the Kawa has the most potential.

lol. It was a VFR750 chassis too no? I was at Boyle Kawasaki at the time, and raced against Tony a fair bit. Still see him now and then. I sold him a Buell 1125CR not so long ago. And yes...I agree the Kawasaki would be the best engine to use.

[crazy man]

thats pretty slow for a 400 over sized to 750!just a bit for a 750! dont no if you knew( fast by rob? ) but he had somthing to do with building my bike l got the bike of dennis oconel .spelt somthing like that

[crazy man]

But Andy's does 165 ?but he has more cc than mine:weep:

[worm13]

just a bit for a 750! dont no if you knew( fast by rob? ) but he had somthing to do with building my bike l got the bike of dennis oconel .spelt somthing like that

I thought it was head like swiss cheese by griffiths and hence why it was fast!

[worm13]

but he has less cc than mine:weep:

I knew there was something dodgy going on!!

[jellywrestler]

Ask Jay how hard he had to peddle those extra couple of Stone he's grown a couple of years back.:brick:
fixed it for ya

[crazy man]

I thought it was head like swiss cheese by griffiths and hence why it was fast!it did get changed around alot once l got my hands on it

[jellywrestler]

lol. It was a VFR750 chassis too no? yep i went to my first Brass Monkey on that bike when it was a VFR too

[Crasherfromwayback]

yep i went to my first Brass Monkey on that bike when it was a VFR too

Really? Funny. Racing against him and Robert at Masterton gave me my first (foul) taste of following methanol burning bikes. Got past Hippy easily enough...Robert was gone burger gone. That Ducati he rode was the only thing that used to beat up on me in F2 round the streets then. The bike was great...but we all know most if it's the rider! Fuck he clicked with that thing.

[jellywrestler]

Really? Funny. Racing against him and Robert at Masterton gave me my first (foul) taste of following methanol burning bikes. Got past Hippy easily enough...Robert was gone burger gone. That Ducati he rode was the only thing that used to beat up on me in F2 round the streets then. The bike was great...but we all know most if it's the rider! Fuck he clicked with that thing.

so in those days the Hippy was probably on a GPZ600 in the F2 Pete?

[Crasherfromwayback]

so in those days the Hippy was probably on a GPZ600 in the F2 Pete?

No. He cross entered his GPZ500 as you could back then.

[neil_cb125t]

OMG...talk about deja vu...just paint it pink while you're at it....kawa twin in a VFR frame...LOL...repeatedly.

Seriously, the hardest part to accomodate would be the airbox which is ferkin huge. I didn't have a close enough look at GW's bike but I suspect the frame is built around the standard airbox.

The 500 Kawas were doing around 140mph here in NZ back in the day.

Rs250 with a ER650 motor........ See here http://www.3upracing.co.uk/blogs/index.php?blog=2

We are working on a Er650 motor going into a different frame, the head of the ER aint wide at all - its teh Gearbox and crank area its HUGE..... The airbox is fine, we are even runing a std Gas tank that fits the airbox fine. The Airbox should be bigger - since i can't mod it.....:weird:

The biggest issue is weight.... these tings are not light... the er has weight everywhere - the ignition barrel is like nearly a kilo in its self!! So find a light frame thats wide at the bottom, light rims and get porting......

[crazy man]

Rs250 with a ER650 motor........ See here http://www.3upracing.co.uk/blogs/index.php?blog=2

We are working on a Er650 motor going into a different frame, the head of the ER aint wide at all - its teh Gearbox and crank area its HUGE..... The airbox is fine, we are even runing a std Gas tank that fits the airbox fine. The Airbox should be bigger - since i can't mod it.....:weird:

The biggest issue is weight.... these tings are not light... the er has weight everywhere - the ignition barrel is like nearly a kilo in its self!! So find a light frame thats wide at the bottom, light rims and get porting......looks more like a home made frame to me

[HenryDorsetCase]

Rs250 with a ER650 motor........ See here http://www.3upracing.co.uk/blogs/index.php?blog=2

We are working on a Er650 motor going into a different frame, the head of the ER aint wide at all - its teh Gearbox and crank area its HUGE..... The airbox is fine, we are even runing a std Gas tank that fits the airbox fine. The Airbox should be bigger - since i can't mod it.....:weird:

The biggest issue is weight.... these tings are not light... the er has weight everywhere - the ignition barrel is like nearly a kilo in its self!! So find a light frame thats wide at the bottom, light rims and get porting......

How wide does it need to be across say the mount closest to where the front sprocket is?

[Crasherfromwayback]

Rs250 with a ER650 motor........ See here http://www.3upracing.co.uk/blogs/index.php?blog=2

.

The frame I see ain't an RS250.

[worm13]

does look freakin cool tho!!

[neil_cb125t]

The frame I see ain't an RS250.

ok no its not a rs frame, the er6 bike im building has a ZXR400 H1 frame modded to fit. The engine goes in after a bit of grinding and welding, the frame is currently getting painted at teh moment, but all the work is done. Rear eng mounts were re made, with exsisting front mounts used.

Truth be told any commuter based bike, SV, ER, GSR, CB hornet etc is going to have a less than ideal frame. In uk the guys have done a CBR400 frame with a bracket that bolts the ER6 motor in, no welding required. But you'll always have some modifying to do.

Ideal world for me would be a custom frame, if we see that the ER motor is the money ( which if we can get it light enough, it is ) and the modded frame i have holds it back, then we'll custom frame it.... i just happened to have a few ZXR setups good to go..... Aim to have it running for Tri series.... and it will be done well... trust me.

[Crasherfromwayback]

the er6 bike im building has a ZXR400 H1 frame modded to fit. .

Nice wee chassis that one! Best of luck with the build. Please post lots of pics as you go. I like stuff like that!:headbang:

[lostinflyz]

ok no its not a rs frame, the er6 bike im building has a ZXR400 H1 frame modded to fit. The engine goes in after a bit of grinding and welding, the frame is currently getting painted at teh moment, but all the work is done. Rear eng mounts were re made, with exsisting front mounts used.

Truth be told any commuter based bike, SV, ER, GSR, CB hornet etc is going to have a less than ideal frame. In uk the guys have done a CBR400 frame with a bracket that bolts the ER6 motor in, no welding required. But you'll always have some modifying to do.

Ideal world for me would be a custom frame, if we see that the ER motor is the money ( which if we can get it light enough, it is ) and the modded frame i have holds it back, then we'll custom frame it.... i just happened to have a few ZXR setups good to go..... Aim to have it running for Tri series.... and it will be done well... trust me.

no no what you need is one of these.
http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/News/newsresults/New-bikes/2009/August/aug2009-Ilmore-motogp-bike-for-the-road-revealed/


one thing to always consider is the out and out hp versus weight versus the final packaging (is it high/or long or got fucked up weight distribution)....its one thing to build a high hp bike, or a lightweight bike, or a well packaged bike, but to be a winner it needs the right combination of all three. then it needs to be reliable and affordable (to whatever your budget is of course :)

anyway i hope all these machines in the works come out to play in the future, the variety in the different approaches is sooo cool!!! A proper ER6, and a fischer 650 would be cool to have on the grid (even a hyosung made f3 spec could be a bit of a weapon - but isn't that just the fischer!!)

[lostinflyz]

chappy whens the first race planned for the er6 franken-monster??/

[Mental Trousers]

no no what you need is one of these.
http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/News/newsresults/New-bikes/2009/August/aug2009-Ilmore-motogp-bike-for-the-road-revealed/

That's damn nice. I wonder if the chassis is too stiff to get working at the much lower spec though.

[Crasherfromwayback]

That's damn nice.

Get your eyes checked. It's fucking ugly.

[codgyoleracer]

So the formula is ? : Take one ER6 motor, Breathe on it to find 10hp, make everything else fom unobtainium - & it might come close to a Tiggy (if well ridden)

[Rcktfsh]

Looking forward to seeing the two RZ engined / RS framed F3 bikes currently being built make it to the track, wil add a bit more colour and smoke to the class.

http://youtu.be/oJ9EUBRHQ3U

[Mental Trousers]

Get your eyes checked. It's fucking ugly.

It has potential. It's ugly at the moment but it's a long term project so it should turn into something a special.

[codgyoleracer]

There are a truckload of other options for F3, some more easily achievable than others. The cheapest and best bang for buck likely being the 125 with MotoX refit, Or an OZZY triple doesnt exactly break the bank either.

Its one of the great things about one of the only 'Formula class" bike race series left. Personally i believe the rules should be ever evolving to allow scope, imagination and good ole fashioned No8 wire solutions..... However this thread is about the best donky 650 twin, should anyone go down that track. Looking forward to seeing / hearing Chappys unit + hopefullly a few more.......

[codgyoleracer]

Looking forward to seeing the two RZ engined / RS framed F3 bikes currently being built make it to the track, wil add a bit more colour and smoke to the class.

http://youtu.be/oJ9EUBRHQ3U

Awesome, Go Wobbly.

Andy's one is pretty close now & will throw a cat amongst the pigeons :-). 100hp diesel twin.......Pfffft :-) :niceone:

[neil_cb125t]

no no what you need is one of these.
http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/News/newsresults/New-bikes/2009/August/aug2009-Ilmore-motogp-bike-for-the-road-revealed/


one thing to always consider is the out and out hp versus weight versus the final packaging (is it high/or long or got fucked up weight distribution)....its one thing to build a high hp bike, or a lightweight bike, or a well packaged bike, but to be a winner it needs the right combination of all three. then it needs to be reliable and affordable (to whatever your budget is of course :)

anyway i hope all these machines in the works come out to play in the future, the variety in the different approaches is sooo cool!!! A proper ER6, and a fischer 650 would be cool to have on the grid (even a hyosung made f3 spec could be a bit of a weapon - but isn't that just the fischer!!)

Very nice - after a picked up a SVX550 motor last month they really are impressive! unfortunately im lucky to be under 90kg wearing a towel.... so i need all the CC's i can get.

[neil_cb125t]

Looking forward to seeing the two RZ engined / RS framed F3 bikes currently being built make it to the track, wil add a bit more colour and smoke to the class.

http://youtu.be/oJ9EUBRHQ3U

VERY COOL!!! please keep the high siding to a minimum

[neil_cb125t]

chappy whens the first race planned for the er6 franken-monster??/

Towards the end of this year - i was going to run it as a stock motor, but the head 'fell' off, and we started to do some work. Frame is completed and being painted as we speak, eng still getting work done. OCT NOV hopefully

[gav]

Anyone know if these are available here in NZ?
http://www.cfmoto.cn/Product_info.php?id=131
Just read a write up in the latest AMCN, seems pretty good and real cheap in Aus. $6000! And yes it might just be the first Chinese bike to crack the market too!

[quickbuck]

Anyone know if these are available here in NZ?
http://www.cfmoto.cn/Product_info.php?id=131
Just read a write up in the latest AMCN, seems pretty good and real cheap in Aus. $6000! And yes it might just be the first Chinese bike to crack the market too!

Hell, that bike looks sexy....
The motorcycle isn't too bad either.

Still, 6000 Aussie, is aroud 8500 here.... So yup, not a bad deal really....

[codgyoleracer]

Anyone know if these are available here in NZ?
http://www.cfmoto.cn/Product_info.php?id=131
Just read a write up in the latest AMCN, seems pretty good and real cheap in Aus. $6000! And yes it might just be the first Chinese bike to crack the market too!

At that retail price i am sure enough would come into the country to ensure homologation - :-)

[scott411]

Hell, that bike looks sexy....
The motorcycle isn't too bad either.

Still, 6000 Aussie, is aroud 8500 here.... So yup, not a bad deal really....

is it considering ER6N kawasaki's are $9995 brand new at the moment?

[manxkiwi]

Just got the TT programme. There's a big article in there with Farquhar about what he does to his ER6s. Thought most people on this thread might be interested. See if you can get a look at copy.

I haven't read it yet (still smoking from the letter box!), but it looks good and quite comprehensive.

[codgyoleracer]

is it considering ER6N kawasaki's are $9995 brand new at the moment?

I know people that will change jobs, let alone their vehicles for $1500........ :-)

[gav]

is it considering ER6N kawasaki's are $9995 brand new at the moment?
Bargain, yeah I think that CFMoto would have to be around the $7K mark then.

[gav]

Just got the TT programme. There's a big article in there with Farquhar about what he does to his ER6s. Thought most people on this thread might be interested. See if you can get a look at copy.

I haven't read it yet (still smoking from the letter box!), but it looks good and quite comprehensive.

Scan and post please :)

[manxkiwi]

Sorry I'm on dial up, so that's not going to happen! I have read the article now. It's not as comprehensive as I first thought, but I'll jot a few of the key points. Obviously the fine details are his secret.

Full strip comes first, Ryan uses a Versys swingarm, because 'it looks better and makes changing the wheel easier'. I suspect the new model swingarm addresses that issue anyway. Crank, crank cases, bore and stroke and ECU must all be retained in their rules. Ryan plays with compression and timing (presumably valve and ignition?) to up power to 'over 90hp'. He uses a fulll Arrow system, modded wiring loom and a bespoke radiator. Runs his own slipper clutch! Apparently the ram air and injection systems see a lot of work, though he doesn't specify, funny that! The obligatory Power Commander over the stock ECU to get the best out of fuelling.

Gearbox is left stock. Maxton rear shock and ZX10 front end with Maxton internals. Insert suspension brand of choice. 'Bars, rearsets, bodywork etc are all obviously track orientated stuff. He makes his own fairing moulds and mucks around with shapes etc.

All for around 10k (pounds), not including donor bike! He had one for sale in the paddock last year. Perhaps I should have bought it and sent it down here???

Hope this helps and perhaps whets the appetite, be good to see a few Kwakas mixing it with the SVs eh?

Cheers.

[codgyoleracer]

Sorry I'm on dial up, so that's not going to happen! I have read the article now. It's not as comprehensive as I first thought, but I'll jot a few of the key points. Obviously the fine details are his secret.

Full strip comes first, Ryan uses a Versys swingarm, because 'it looks better and makes changing the wheel easier'. I suspect the new model swingarm addresses that issue anyway. Crank, crank cases, bore and stroke and ECU must all be retained in their rules. Ryan plays with compression and timing (presumably valve and ignition?) to up power to 'over 90hp'. He uses a fulll Arrow system, modded wiring loom and a bespoke radiator. Runs his own slipper clutch! Apparently the ram air and injection systems see a lot of work, though he doesn't specify, funny that! The obligatory Power Commander over the stock ECU to get the best out of fuelling.

Gearbox is left stock. Maxton rear shock and ZX10 front end with Maxton internals. Insert suspension brand of choice. 'Bars, rearsets, bodywork etc are all obviously track orientated stuff. He makes his own fairing moulds and mucks around with shapes etc.

All for around 10k (pounds), not including donor bike! He had one for sale in the paddock last year. Perhaps I should have bought it and sent it down here???

Hope this helps and perhaps whets the appetite, be good to see a few Kwakas mixing it with the SVs eh?

Cheers.

To get 90 rwhp with those changes - is pretty impressive

[manxkiwi]

To get 90 rwhp with those changes - is pretty impressive

When he mentions 90+, he gives 70 as stock. So (I presume) that would be crankshaft HP?? He now has his own Dyno too. They are notoriously 'different' to each other. But it would seem he's getting 20+ extra HP over stock. Very reliable at that too.

[FROSTY]

Hey Glen. Im happy to stand corrected here but my understanding of the 650 twin class in the uk is that they race under different rules than us.
The bikes have a simple HP limit on them. -Do what you like but dont exeed 75hp
I think also there are limitations as to what you can do to the front suspension. -ie no usd forks.
I'd say that you are better comparing what the Yanks are doing to see what dominates when the rules allow lots done inside the engine and in the suspenders.

[codgyoleracer]

Hey Glen. Im happy to stand corrected here but my understanding of the 650 twin class in the uk is that they race under different rules than us.
The bikes have a simple HP limit on them. -Do what you like but dont exeed 75hp
I think also there are limitations as to what you can do to the front suspension. -ie no usd forks.
I'd say that you are better comparing what the Yanks are doing to see what dominates when the rules allow lots done inside the engine and in the suspenders.

Hi Frosty
Pommie rules have a lot of similarities with ours, Yanks seem to allow overbores (700cc) in a lot of their mintwin classes. The thread is mainly about the sourcing of the best 650 twin four stroke (if that was what your current choice of motor - and why).
SV has indeed dominated in NZ, but as many have noted this may have simply been because 'thats what others were doing, - and the Suzuki's aftermarket parts list - is and has been pretty substantial for a long time. The interchangability of suzuki parts bewteeen quite different suzuki models has in my experience also been a strong motivation for easy and cost effective development.
GW

[Grumph]

true I suppose that because many have done it, the SV is easier....At least you're following a proven path. To do a Kawa, some degree of intelligence and experience is required because you are going to be forging your own path.

Just be very careful of what is on the net...a customer turned up with ZX7 valve springs seats and retainers because that is what he was told to use by yanks who were racing the ER6's....actual measurement showed the setup they recommended was less than .020in valve lift away from coil bind....I refused to run it.

[quickbuck]

Just be very careful of what is on the net...a customer turned up with ZX7 valve springs seats and retainers because that is what he was told to use by yanks who were racing the ER6's....actual measurement showed the setup they recommended was less than .020in valve lift away from coil bind....I refused to run it.

A VERY good lesson in "don't believe everything you read" right there....

[Grumph]

A VERY good lesson in "don't believe everything you read" right there....

LOL - seriously, I did refuse to put that setup in his motor...But 4AGE race springs fit the ZX7 seats and retainers better than the Kawa springs do...spacer required to get correct fitted height but they'll happily accept over .400inch valve lift.....

[codgyoleracer]

LOL - seriously, I did refuse to put that setup in his motor...But 4AGE race springs fit the ZX7 seats and retainers better than the Kawa springs do...spacer required to get correct fitted height but they'll happily accept over .400inch valve lift.....

Its pretty incredible to hear some of the advice out there on the internet of what is a "hot" set up aye Grumph, many of them will make the bike go worse than stock, as all of the manufacturers spend $$$$$$$$ developing and synchronising engine parts to work as a whole.
An example might be swapping a piston out for another type/brand - whilst its a simple job to do -in almost all cases the engine will produce either less hp or simply make stronger torque or hp in another rev zone (but lose it elswhere). Changes like this without changing the many other parts that control inlet and exhaust gas flow are often a complete waste of time and $.

[Shorty_925]

Peformance Bike mag for June and had an article on JHS and the Supertwin they produce, 15k(pounds) + VAT. Used Triumph 675 complete front end and rear wheel. Anyone in NZ used this?
Motor had alot of work done, but the shortness of the exhuast surpised me. They confirmed it was good to be under 102dB. It looked similar to a CBR1000 or R6 exhuast out the side and all I could think was how loud is this going to be!

[Drew]

Motor had alot of work done, but the shortness of the exhuast surpised me. They confirmed it was good to be under 102dB. It looked similar to a CBR1000 or R6 exhuast out the side and all I could think was how loud is this going to be!

My lady's ER6 is fuckin loud! They have a little short pipe underneath, and the two brothers can that's been fitted does fuck all to quieten things down at all.

[codgyoleracer]

For pro twins, I'm surprised no one has found a damaged cagiva raptor. Decent brakes and cartridge forks.

Funnily enough i rode one of those at the track just the other day, and as you say as a Protwin bike its a pretty handy starting point. Suffers from porkiness a little , but probably fixable that.