Finally, the announcement of the Learner Approved Motorcycle Scheme (LAMS)

[Tricia1000]

Approved motorcycles for learner and restricted riders :2thumbsup
On 1 October 2012, a new motorcycle rating system designed to improve safety for
motorcycle riders will come into effect.
The Learner Approved Motorcycle Scheme (LAMS) is an initiative of the road safety strategy
Safer Journeys.
LAMS identifies a range of motorcycles appropriate for learner and restricted Class 6 licence
holders, based on their level of experience. The new scheme will determine appropriate
motorcycles based on the overall performance capability of the motorcycle.
The scheme will replace the current approach that allows motorcycle riders on learner and
restricted Class 6 licences to ride any motorcycle with an engine capacity 250cc or under.
The current system applies restrictions based on the engine capacity of the motorcycle.
From 1 October, learner and restricted motorcycle riders will have a wider range of
motorcycles to choose from and will need to ensure the motorcycle they are riding meets
the new criteria.
LAMS-approved and prohibited motorcycles
The NZTA has produced two lists; LAMS-approved and LAMS-prohibited motorcycles.
LAMS-approved motorcycles are determined by two factors:
 a maximum power-to-weight ratio of 150 kilowatts per tonne (the power is that
specified by the manufacturer and the weight is the weight specified by the
manufacturer plus 90kgs for the rider and riding gear); and
 an upper engine capacity limit of 660cc.
Motorcycles and scooters with an engine capacity of 250cc or under will automatically be
LAMS-approved, with the exception of a small group of 250cc motorcycles that will be LAMS prohibited
for learner and restricted riders after 01 October 2012 due to their high
performance capabilities.
Learner or restricted licence holders who currently ride one of these 250cc motorcycles will
have the option to apply to the NZTA for an exemption, which may enable them to continue
to legally ride this vehicle after 1 October 2012.
The full lists of LAMS-approved and LAMS-prohibited motorcycles can be found at
www.nzta.govt.nz/LAMS from Saturday 9 June. The lists will be updated as new models are
approved by the NZ Transport Agency.
Please note
Any motorcycle modified in a way that increases its power-to-weight ratio is no longer LAMS compliant,
regardless of whether it appears on the list.
Learner and restricted motorcycle licence holders are responsible for making sure they are
riding a LAMS-approved motorcycle, as produced by the manufacturer. If they are in doubt,
they should seek confirmation from the manufacturer’s agent or dealership.

If you need any further information, please contact me.
Tricia O'Connor
RoADA (Dip)
Roadcraft School of Motorcycling Ltd.,
Shop 4, 15-19 Florence Ave.,
Orewa
021 269 3246

[Tigadee]

The full lists of LAMS-approved and LAMS-prohibited motorcycles can be found at
www.nzta.govt.nz/LAMS from Saturday 9 June. The lists will be updated as new models are approved by the NZ Transport Agency.

Just to be clear...

Thanks Tricia!

[Gremlin]

Any motorcycle modified in a way that increases its power-to-weight ratio is no longer LAMS compliant,
regardless of whether it appears on the list.
This is interesting Tricia. Can we assume then, that should a learner stick a different exhaust on, for example, that it is no longer compliant?

[Tricia1000]

It says modified in a way to increase the power to weight ratio......
I don't think the exhaust would make that much difference

[Tricia1000]

No worries.

Just to be clear...

Thanks Tricia!

[White trash]

It says modified in a way to increase the power to weight ratio......
I don't think the exhaust would make that much difference

I dunno. As the statement's not quantified, if an exhaust either saves a kg or adds 1hp, you can't do it. (How I read the rule anyway)

[Brian d marge]

page not found ,


is / are Enfields on there?

Stephen

[Taz]

Wonder if my 640adv will sneak in there? I haven't had a learner bike for decades :cool:

[Ender EnZed]

page not found ,


is / are Enfields on there?

Stephen

It's not up until Saturday.

[Akzle]

This is interesting Tricia. Can we assume then, that should a learner stick a different exhaust on, for example, that it is no longer compliant?does it alter the power-weight ratio?

[Gremlin]

I dunno. As the statement's not quantified, if an exhaust either saves a kg or adds 1hp, you can't do it. (How I read the rule anyway)


does it alter the power-weight ratio?

Generally speaking, as Mr Trash says... the exhaust will weigh less and increase HP. It's not a lot, but it's how the rule reads...

[The End]

The list of allowed and prohibited bikes is up now...

http://www.nzta.govt.nz/licence/getting/motorcycles/approved-motorcycles.html

[pete376403]

IT490 would make one hell of a learner bike - but its on the list so it must be ok (listed as a Honda IT490 under the yamaha heading for some reason)

[FJRider]

This is interesting Tricia. Can we assume then, that should a learner stick a different exhaust on, for example, that it is no longer compliant?

I would assume that those motorcycles "On the list" ... are not just under the maximum HP limit. As such ... as previously mentioned ... it would take more than new cans/re-jetting/pod filters (etc) ... to pass the limit.

A turbo however ... may be frowned on ...

[kiwi cowboy]

gonna be some cheep 2 fiddys on the market now.

[Brian d marge]

No enfields then , possibly because it doesnt produce power , therefore cant be approved or disapproved , 0/kg is ? How did they determine the safe power to weight? many of those bikes couldnt pull the skin of a rice pudding .........others could , the it 490


oh well its a start


Stephen

[ducatilover]

RVF400... :rolleyes:
That's ridiculous...
A ZZR400 makes less power and weighs more yet with a 90kg rider comes in at 150.8kw/tonne :facepalm: and is not allowed

I'm all for having fun, but the RVF shouldn't be anywhere near that list.

[mossy1200]

The gsx550ef im selling isnt on the list but a gsxr600u and gsx650fu is ?
64hp and 215kg so should be there.

[Ender EnZed]

How did they determine the safe power to weight?
They just used the same as other similar schemes.



LAMS-approved motorcycles are determined by two factors:
 a maximum power-to-weight ratio of 150 kilowatts per tonne (the power is that
specified by the manufacturer and the weight is the weight specified by the
manufacturer plus 90kgs for the rider and riding gear); and
 an upper engine capacity limit of 660cc.



IT490 would make one hell of a learner bike

There are a bunch of dirt-based machines on there that seem to be well outside the 150kW/T limit.

I.e. Husaberg FS650e with a little over 45kW and a manufacturers specified weight of 112kg. With a 90kg rider that's 225kW per tonne, a full 50% over the limit.

You're also allowed a WR450F or a 525EXC, both of which have the same sort of power and weight.

[Ender EnZed]

RVF400... :rolleyes:
That's ridiculous...

And yet a VFR400 isn't allowed. :facepalm:

[neels]

Looks like my son sold his GSXR250 just in time then. :niceone:

Also looks like I made the right call buying a DRZ400 too, he take it out for a ride with me on his restricted.

[steve_t]

So if someone's been riding an Aprilia RS250 on their L plate for the last 10 months, they can no longer legally ride it from 1 Oct? I'm pretty sure that's what it says. My mate will be disappointed. She wanted to check what was going to happen with that.

[Ender EnZed]

So if someone's been riding an Aprilia RS250 on their L plate for the last 10 months, they can no longer legally ride it from 1 Oct? I'm pretty sure that's what it says. My mate will be disappointed. She wanted to check what was going to happen with that.

"Learner or restricted licence holders who currently ride one of these 250cc motorcycles will
have the option to apply to the NZTA for an exemption, which may enable them to continue
to legally ride this vehicle after 1 October 2012."

Get an exemption.

[steve_t]

"Learner or restricted licence holders who currently ride one of these 250cc motorcycles will
have the option to apply to the NZTA for an exemption, which may enable them to continue
to legally ride this vehicle after 1 October 2012."

Get an exemption.

Oh, sweet. Cheers man! :niceone:

[ducatilover]

And yet a VFR400 isn't allowed. :facepalm:
Or the CBR400 series, ZXR400H/J/L/M, GPZ400R, GPX400R etc etc etc all of which offer similar or lower power to weights...


Looks like my son sold his GSXR250 just in time then. :niceone:

Also looks like I made the right call buying a DRZ400 too, he take it out for a ride with me on his restricted.

The Gixxer is still allowed, any sub-250cc bike with the exception of the RS/NSR etc are allowed :2thumbsup

Have thought of a few that should be allowed in, that aren't there and a few you can still buy, that shouldn't be according to the power to weight.

This system is much better than the old, but, it's messy and poorly done.
You can still buy a TV250 Wolf (if you can find one) which is an RGV250 with no fairings, so technically allowed.
And the RG250 Gamma, although according to factory specs...
It also says CB400... which one? There are many, I don't think a Hyper VTEC Super Four is ideal.
Retards should've got me to do it.

[Fast Eddie]

damn RD350 on the list.. nutters machine lol - why not the nsrs and rgvs they don't make that much power eh, especially not some of them the way they have been looked after, they barely run anymore haha!

[tigertim20]

gonna be some cheep 2 fiddys on the market now.
nah, the same muppets that paid 5k for a clapped out peice of shit will still expect the same resale value

RVF400... :rolleyes:
That's ridiculous...
A ZZR400 makes less power and weighs more yet with a 90kg rider comes in at 150.8kw/tonne :facepalm: and is not allowed

I'm all for having fun, but the RVF shouldn't be anywhere near that list.
the list is meant to be live, it can change (and will change) based on submissions, and new info coming through from newly manufactured bikes each year

The gsx550ef im selling isnt on the list but a gsxr600u and gsx650fu is ?
64hp and 215kg so should be there.
as above, not perfect (its the NZ govt we are talking about here after all!)

[ducatilover]

the list is meant to be live, it can change (and will change) based on submissions, and new info coming through from newly manufactured bikes each year


Maybe I should write in and get all the fun shit taken off the list :bleh:

[Cam_Valk]

Wooo Hooo, Im fucking stoked that my RVF is going to be learner legal.

But anyone else have any idea wtf a Suzuki GSXR-600U is?
And why its on the list.

[tigertim20]

Maybe I should write in and get all the fun shit taken off the list :bleh:

go ahead, then you wont be allowed to ride Geoff!

[ducatilover]

But anyone else have any idea wtf a Suzuki GSXR-600U is?
And why its on the list.
Australian market Gixxer, restricted and certed for LAMS, same as the SV650SU and several others

go ahead, then you wont be allowed to ride Geoff!

Who cares, Geoff is bum secks turned up to 11

[Tigadee]

:scratch: The XJ650 and XJ6 are on the list but my XJ400 isn't? Yet I managed to get an exemption to current learner's 250 limit from NZTA...

Maybe it's just not officially on the LAMS list yet. I'll have to enquire about that.

[Tricia1000]

If its outside the limit, she could have a restrictor fitted, perhaps?
Tricia

So if someone's been riding an Aprilia RS250 on their L plate for the last 10 months, they can no longer legally ride it from 1 Oct? I'm pretty sure that's what it says. My mate will be disappointed. She wanted to check what was going to happen with that.

[sinfull]

My FXR aint on the list yet, have to see about this lol

[nzspokes]

I think the bottom of this kills any chance of getting bikes added to the list.

http://www.nzta.govt.nz/licence/getting/docs/lams-faqs.pdf

[ducatilover]

:scratch: The XJ650 and XJ6 are on the list but my XJ400 isn't? Yet I managed to get an exemption to current learner's 250 limit from NZTA...

Maybe it's just not officially on the LAMS list yet. I'll have to enquire about that.
Interesting, the list isn't very clear at all, but I would expect the older XJ650/XJ6 are quite heavy/low on power, where if I recall, your XJ400 would be just over the limit?
The 650 was a heavy sucker.


My FXR aint on the list yet, have to see about this lol

The FXR150 is allowed :2thumbsup

[sinfull]

The FXR150 is allowed :2thumbsup
The above would dissapear up my fat arse !

[ducatilover]

The above would dissapear up my fat arse !

Pics or it's not true :bleh:

[george formby]

What an eye opener. IT 490, XR650R, KTM's by the bucket full......
Who is the bike fan that works for the NZTA....
First person to spot an IT with an L plate gets a chocolate fish:lol:

[Oscar]

No enfields then , possibly because it doesnt produce power , therefore cant be approved or disapproved , 0/kg is ? How did they determine the safe power to weight? many of those bikes couldnt pull the skin of a rice pudding .........others could , the it 490


oh well its a start


Stephen

All motorcycles manufactured prior to 1960 with an engine capacity of 660cc and under.

[tigertim20]

I notice the Hyosungs are not on the list - had been some speculation as to whether they would qualify - guess we have our answer!

[Tricia1000]

Fergus down at Hyosungs at Barry's Point Road, says that the GT650 comes with a factory fitted restrictor, which can then be removed when you get your full licence. So you wouldn't have to change bikes at all.......
Tricia


I notice the Hyosungs are not on the list - had been some speculation as to whether they would qualify - guess we have our answer!

[pete376403]

What an eye opener. IT 490, XR650R, KTM's by the bucket full......
Who is the bike fan that works for the NZTA....
First person to spot an IT with an L plate gets a chocolate fish:lol:


A while back I had a road registered IT400. Wish I'd kept it.

The list appears to be copied from the Australian LAMs list. You don't expect people in NZTA to do things on their own, do you?

[nzspokes]

Fergus down at Hyosungs at Barry's Point Road, says that the GT650 comes with a factory fitted restrictor, which can then be removed when you get your full licence. So you wouldn't have to change bikes at all.......
Tricia

They will need to get them put on the list first.

[Glowerss]

Interesting, the list isn't very clear at all, but I would expect the older XJ650/XJ6 are quite heavy/low on power, where if I recall, your XJ400 would be just over the limit?
The 650 was a heavy sucker.



The FXR150 is allowed :2thumbsup

the XJS 400s are fairly heavy/not too powerful. IIRC something like 195kg and 45ish HP, there abouts. Certainly is going to have a lower power/weight ratio then something like a 250 CBRR.

[GrayWolf]

:scratch: The XJ650 and XJ6 are on the list but my XJ400 isn't? Yet I managed to get an exemption to current learner's 250 limit from NZTA...

Maybe it's just not officially on the LAMS list yet. I'll have to enquire about that.

that again makes no sense... I had an old YICS XJ650, and they are certainly quicker than the sprot 250's apart from the KR1 etc on top end, (maybe).

[ducatilover]

the XJS 400s are fairly heavy/not too powerful. IIRC something like 195kg and 45ish HP, there abouts. Certainly is going to have a lower power/weight ratio then something like a 250 CBRR.

53hp/178kg for the XJ400S Diversion :niceone:

[ducatilover]

that again makes no sense... I had an old YICS XJ650, and they are certainly quicker than the sprot 250's apart from the KR1 etc on top end, (maybe).

Apparently they only pulled 120mph or so, which the 2T 250s will do.

[Tricia1000]

The xj6 is on the list, but the fzs600 ( virtually the same bike isn't.
Interesting, the list isn't very clear at all, but I would expect the older XJ650/XJ6 are quite heavy/low on power, where if I recall, your XJ400 would be just over the limit?
The 650 was a heavy sucker.



The FXR150 is allowed :2thumbsup

[Mongolian]

Damn the timing of this law.
Was planning on selling my rgv next year but will have to sell it before the law changes and it will be virtually impossible to sell.

Good law i think though, will help out the larger (read as fat buggers like me) people get a decent bike rather than some little 250 that has a huge premium on it.

On a side note, any learners wanting to buy a freshly rebuilt rgv in the next few months haha.

[NinjaNanna]

seeing as it's only manufacturers that can get other models added to the list (without waiting for LTNZ to get off their arse) perhaps KB could set up a wiki for each manufacturer and quickly compile a list of all the legal bikes and then approx each manufacturer asking them to submit on our behalf.

[Fast Eddie]

Damn the timing of this law.
Was planning on selling my rgv next year but will have to sell it before the law changes and it will be virtually impossible to sell.

On a side note, any learners wanting to buy a freshly rebuilt thrashed rgv in the next few months haha.

lol - I still think 2ts will be ok.. I bought my 2t off a full licensed rider and I myself am a long time full licensed rider - learners generally don't go for them I recon.. for noobs there are too many unknowns about rebuilds and maintenance and reliability of a 2 stroke, and most don't even know what 2 or 4 stroke is. those vtr250s, gn250s, gt250rs etc seem very popular these days for learners. I never see any 2 strokes floating around or they are pretty rare.

just keep it, 2 strokes rule and make a mint 2nd bike/toy for proper thrashes, plus more of an enthusiasts bike.. There will still be people out there that want nice examples of the dying out 2ts.. another bonus is that no one makes 2t little sports bikes/race reps anymore so logically u will assume that value should increase as more of them blow up or rust away and only a few enthusiasts are left keeping theirs going

[Glowerss]

The xj6 is on the list, but the fzs600 ( virtually the same bike isn't.

It's the same story with mine and tiggadees XJS400s. The XJR400 is on the list, and its just the naked version of the XJS. I'll be very sad if the XJS doesn't make it on the list. :no:

[Ender EnZed]

The xj6 is on the list, but the fzs600 ( virtually the same bike isn't.

I thought the FZS was quite a bit quicker. It's 10kg lighter and it has an extra 20hp.

[Paul in NZ]

Bloody stupid list and an even stupider method to get bikes added.

Still - there must be some cheapish RGV's coming up eh? Rather fancy something like that....

[iYRe]

For those who are interested:

http://www.nzta.govt.nz/licence/getting/motorcycles/approved-motorcycles.html

[bogan]

Shit, somebody better tell ACC, they left some super dangerous over 600cc bikes on the learner list! :shit:

[FJRider]

A bit slow off the mark ...

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/148043-LAMS-approved-bikes

[bogan]

A bit slow off the mark ...

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/148043-LAMS-approved-bikes

Having NZ's list in the first post is worth an extra thread though I reckon.

[scott411]

Shit, somebody better tell ACC, they left some super dangerous over 600cc bikes on the learner list! :shit:

the issue is in australia some of these bikes have been restricted to meet the requiremnet, so the factory restricted ones (of which none have been imported into NZ) are legal, but the unrestricted ones are not,

how the consumer, or Cop that pulls you up is ment to know the difference I do not know,

(if you have a look at the AUssie distributor websites they list LAMS approved and full horsepower models for some 600-650cc models)

[ducatilover]

seeing as it's only manufacturers that can get other models added to the list (without waiting for LTNZ to get off their arse) perhaps KB could set up a wiki for each manufacturer and quickly compile a list of all the legal bikes and then approx each manufacturer asking them to submit on our behalf.
That's a bloody good idea :yes:

I thought the FZS was quite a bit quicker. It's 10kg lighter and it has an extra 20hp.
I thought it had a de-tuned FZR motor?

[SVboy]

Yamaha it490-just the bike for the beginning rider!

[iYRe]

Having NZ's list in the first post is worth an extra thread though I reckon.

yeah.. that was kinda the point. Its hard(er) to find stuff buried in a thread..

[Akzle]

cool. my bike is 200kw/tonne to LAMS it i need to either gain 107kg or loose 20 ponies.
but it's just not that f*ing fast...


FYI, for the calculation:
1HP= .753kW

kw/vehicle mass (kg) +90 (rider allowance). multiply by 1000 = your kw/tonne,


but are they going to roll this in with cars?
and maybe have a special license for dicks who want a 4x4 and live in a city?

[Asher]

the issue is in australia some of these bikes have been restricted to meet the requiremnet, so the factory restricted ones (of which none have been imported into NZ) are legal, but the unrestricted ones are not,

how the consumer, or Cop that pulls you up is ment to know the difference I do not know,

(if you have a look at the AUssie distributor websites they list LAMS approved and full horsepower models for some 600-650cc models)

Bikes like a hyo GTR650L require new ecu's and exhausts to be de-restricted, i guess they figure that will be enough of a deterrent :shifty:
The GXSR600U simply has a 2nd map loaded on the ecu, snip a wire and your back to full power :Punk:
If you and a cop cant tell the difference between a ~140kmh bike and a ~240kmh bike theres something wrong, but that said if i had a gsxr600u i would be de-restricting it before i had scrubbed the tyres in.

[Old Steve]

Fairly limited list of manufacturers, BMW, Ducati, Honda, Husaberg, Kawasaki, KTM, Lifan, Suzuki and Yamaha. Surely there are more manufacturers of <660 cc bikes which fit the power to weight ratio. Or are these the only ones who have done the registration with NZTA so far?

[riffer]

List is pretty much a copy of the Victoria (Australia) State LAMS list.

It's up to the manufacturers to apply for LAMS status.

I'd love to see Harley-Davidson release a sleeved down version of the 883 Iron for LAMS.

[riffer]

Yeah, it's an interesting mix all right. Copied from Victoria State LAMS list.

Half the fast bikes on that list are impossible to find now. And as pointed out to me, why would you spend $19K on a slow gixxer?

I'm still gutted that they put a 660cc limit on though. I'd love to see the 883 Sportster as a learner bike. It would be sweet.

[ducatilover]

cool. my bike is 200kw/tonne to LAMS it i need to either gain 107kg or loose 20 ponies.
but it's just not that f*ing fast...


FYI, for the calculation:
1HP= .753kW

kw/vehicle mass (kg) +90 (rider allowance). multiply by 1000 = your kw/tonne,


but are they going to roll this in with cars?
and maybe have a special license for dicks who want a 4x4 and live in a city?
Darn, my 600 is making around 288kw/tonne..not so learner legal :laugh:
But I'm not a 90kg rider...it's 333kw/tonne with me on it.

[scott411]

Bikes like a hyo GTR650L require new ecu's and exhausts to be de-restricted, i guess they figure that will be enough of a deterrent :shifty:
The GXSR600U simply has a 2nd map loaded on the ecu, snip a wire and your back to full power :Punk:
If you and a cop cant tell the difference between a ~140kmh bike and a ~240kmh bike theres something wrong, but that said if i had a gsxr600u i would be de-restricting it before i had scrubbed the tyres in.

more the point i was making is the fact that all the bikes that are here now, are not LAMS legal, this list makes it look like they are,

[ducatilover]

The list is stupid and poorly done.

That is all.

[sil3nt]

The list is stupid and poorly done.

That is all.Agree.

Would be nice if they actually put some thought into what they were doing for once.

[GSF]

"It is your responsibility to make sure that you only ride an approved motorcycle as produced by the manufacturer without any modifications to increase its power-to-weight ratio."

I smell a Tui ad.

[HenryDorsetCase]

NC35 (RVF400) is LAMS legal but no mention of NC30 (VFR400 NC30)?

Who's got a cheap NSR250SP for me? or Aprilia RS250: they must be worthless now they arent learner legal.

[ducatilover]

Agree.

Would be nice if they actually put some thought into what they were doing for once.
When that day comes, I will be in power.

[HenryDorsetCase]

When that day comes, I will be in power.

Who will be first against the wall?

[ducatilover]

Who will be first against the wall?
The queers in the theatre.

And anyone I do not care for.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Good to see the Suzuki RE5 on the LAMS list. There's a heap of them around and they are really cheap too. Bargain learner bike.....

[ducatilover]

Good to see the Suzuki RE5 on the LAMS list. There's a heap of them around and they are really cheap too. Bargain learner bike.....
Not like those rare, expensive Duvati 400SS, Monster 400, 600SS, Monster 600... :facepalm: Can't have them in there! Too powerful.

[awa355]

I have a XVS650 Dragstar which is on the list. This might work in my favour, as later this year, I want to down size to a lighter smaller bike. About then, there maybe a newer rider who wants to swap to a full size cruiser, from his 250.

Will be interesting to see if there is any change to bike values.

[tigertim20]

lol - I still think 2ts will be ok.. I bought my 2t off a full licensed rider and I myself am a long time full licensed rider - learners generally don't go for them I recon.. for noobs there are too many unknowns about rebuilds and maintenance and reliability of a 2 stroke, and most don't even know what 2 or 4 stroke is. those vtr250s, gn250s, gt250rs etc seem very popular these days for learners. I never see any 2 strokes floating around or they are pretty rare.

just keep it, 2 strokes rule and make a mint 2nd bike/toy for proper thrashes, plus more of an enthusiasts bike.. There will still be people out there that want nice examples of the dying out 2ts.. another bonus is that no one makes 2t little sports bikes/race reps anymore so logically u will assume that value should increase as more of them blow up or rust away and only a few enthusiasts are left keeping theirs going
+1, keep it as a trackday toy and bring it out for summer each year - have a second regular ride as well!

List is pretty much a copy of the Victoria (Australia) State LAMS list.

It's up to the manufacturers to apply for LAMS status.

I'd love to see Harley-Davidson release a sleeved down version of the 883 Iron for LAMS.
this has been discussed at length before, and the general consensus is that its massively cost prohibitive.

The list is stupid and poorly done.

That is all.

its a starting point. It wouldnt take a huge amount of effort for someone like yourself to do something about it. Start compiling a list of other eligible bikes, and write to NZ agents of the manufacturers, if they can see their bikes being more popular, or new bikes making more sales as a result, theyll get in and do something. It's just going to take someone with the time and patience to chase it up.

I wonder though, how you could get on with say a custom bike? ala Ducatilovers bike - essentially a homebuilt bike. lots of people build cafe racers with an engine from x, a frame from Y, wheels from Z, etc etc - you are basically the manufacturer of a one off custom bike - in that circumstance, provided you do the vinning etc and have the paperwork, can you not apply to have your bike added to the list if your specs match the requirements? I cant see why not.

[Glowerss]

53hp/178kg for the XJ400S Diversion :niceone:

Depends on where you look! It's either 53 or 42. My guess is 53 is at the crank and 42 is RWHP. It sure as shit doesn't feel like its pushing out 53 at the wheel. It's bloody slow :laugh:

Speaking of, does anyone know how the LAMS NZ people are measuring horsepower? What metric are they using?

[nzspokes]

I wonder though, how you could get on with say a custom bike? ala Ducatilovers bike - essentially a homebuilt bike. lots of people build cafe racers with an engine from x, a frame from Y, wheels from Z, etc etc - you are basically the manufacturer of a one off custom bike - in that circumstance, provided you do the vinning etc and have the paperwork, can you not apply to have your bike added to the list if your specs match the requirements? I cant see why not.

My guess that will be part of a certification process like the low volume one for cars.

But thats a guess.

[Latte]

NC35 (RVF400) is LAMS legal but no mention of NC30 (VFR400 NC30)?

Who's got a cheap NSR250SP for me? or Aprilia RS250: they must be worthless now they arent learner legal.



My se just got written off for cosmetic damage. Decent payout too :-)

[ducatilover]

its a starting point. It wouldnt take a huge amount of effort for someone like yourself to do something about it. Start compiling a list of other eligible bikes, and write to NZ agents of the manufacturers, if they can see their bikes being more popular, or new bikes making more sales as a result, theyll get in and do something. It's just going to take someone with the time and patience to chase it up.
I might start a list as one of my random boredom things :2thumbsup:


I wonder though, how you could get on with say a custom bike? ala Ducatilovers bike - essentially a homebuilt bike. lots of people build cafe racers with an engine from x, a frame from Y, wheels from Z, etc etc - you are basically the manufacturer of a one off custom bike - in that circumstance, provided you do the vinning etc and have the paperwork, can you not apply to have your bike added to the list if your specs match the requirements? I cant see why not.
I could kind of get ZZR600s in to the LAMS list doing this, just use a "dummy" ZZR400 motor with the speed cut disconnected, it'll rev limit at 10,000rpm instead of 15 (my 600 is doing this currently as there's no signal to the CDI :facepalm:) Get a cert, pull that motor and biff the 600 in it, identical in terms of looks those motors are :laugh:

But, that's a very interesting point, if people like me can start making modified bikes that fit in to the LAMS list...would be very, very cool!
I imagine you'd just chuck it on some certified scales and have a certified dyno run?

Depends on where you look! It's either 53 or 42. My guess is 53 is at the crank and 42 is RWHP. It sure as shit doesn't feel like its pushing out 53 at the wheel. It's bloody slow :laugh:

Speaking of, does anyone know how the LAMS NZ people are measuring horsepower? What metric are they using?
I'm pretty certain the later ones like yours are 53 crank HP, so is the Honda CB400 SuperFour, but that's not on the list...technically.

[haydes55]

The queers in the theatre.

And anyone I do not care for.

And that one looks jewish! And that ones a coon!

[GrayWolf]

Apparently they only pulled 120mph or so, which the 2T 250s will do.

exactly my point, you ban 2T 250's because they do 120+mph, then allow a 650 with the same top speed, and 'overall' will have better performance figures. The only anti for the old XJ's isto hope if it's a YICS model the dealers still have the tool to 'isolate each carburator' for balancing, and if a pre YICS they had a horrible 'flat spot' at about 5-7,000rpm. Other than that they were/are damn good machines to ride and I did a lot of miles on my 650 Special....

[GrayWolf]

Depends on where you look! It's either 53 or 42. My guess is 53 is at the crank and 42 is RWHP. It sure as shit doesn't feel like its pushing out 53 at the wheel. It's bloody slow :laugh:

Speaking of, does anyone know how the LAMS NZ people are measuring horsepower? What metric are they using?

I dont understand why you (people) have this fixation with power... lets put it in perspective (again).. google a few OLD bikes, the 1960's japanese 250-500cc and british 500-650 bikes... it will give you a bit of a reality check on how (underpowered) your bike is(nt).

[ducatilover]

exactly my point, you ban 2T 250's because they do 120+mph, then allow a 650 with the same top speed, and 'overall' will have better performance figures. The only anti for the old XJ's isto hope if it's a YICS model the dealers still have the tool to 'isolate each carburator' for balancing, and if a pre YICS they had a horrible 'flat spot' at about 5-7,000rpm. Other than that they were/are damn good machines to ride and I did a lot of miles on my 650 Special....

$10 says an RGV/NSR/TZR/RS will eat the arse off an XJ650:innocent:

[riffer]

exactly my point, you ban 2T 250's because they do 120+mph, then allow a 650 with the same top speed, and 'overall' will have better performance figures. The only anti for the old XJ's isto hope if it's a YICS model the dealers still have the tool to 'isolate each carburator' for balancing, and if a pre YICS they had a horrible 'flat spot' at about 5-7,000rpm. Other than that they were/are damn good machines to ride and I did a lot of miles on my 650 Special....


It's not so much the HP. It's the delivery and the relative handling of the bike. The 2stroke 2-fiddies are twitchy little tykes at the best of times.

Me - I'm hoping to pick up a mint RS250 Ape in a year or so for less than $3000 - although maybe we could look at a racing class for the 2-fiddies if they get cheap enough.

[Brett]

How the hell do you only get 25kw from a gsx-r 600. (I assume a GSX-R 600U is just a detuned gsxr??) Secondly, who the hell is going to know the difference between a GSXR 600 U whatever the hell it is and a good ol' gixxer 600 at full noise...the average copper ain't gonna know jack all. I can see this system being rather flawed.

[Mongolian]

lol - I still think 2ts will be ok.. I bought my 2t off a full licensed rider and I myself am a long time full licensed rider - learners generally don't go for them I recon.. for noobs there are too many unknowns about rebuilds and maintenance and reliability of a 2 stroke, and most don't even know what 2 or 4 stroke is. those vtr250s, gn250s, gt250rs etc seem very popular these days for learners. I never see any 2 strokes floating around or they are pretty rare.

just keep it, 2 strokes rule and make a mint 2nd bike/toy for proper thrashes, plus more of an enthusiasts bike.. There will still be people out there that want nice examples of the dying out 2ts.. another bonus is that no one makes 2t little sports bikes/race reps anymore so logically u will assume that value should increase as more of them blow up or rust away and only a few enthusiasts are left keeping theirs going

Haha, yes i do thrash it a bit, but paid the price when it seized down the back straight at pukekohe.
Just got the cylinders back from the replaters in the UK and putting it all back together this week XD

I really would love to keep the bike but it would certainly help my funds and the look on my partners face when i go to get a new bike in the next few months, as the RGV is certainly an awesome bike, but needs some stiffer suspension for my shall we say generous proportions and its pretty tight when your 6ft4 aswell (was a killer riding it down to whakatane at xmas last year)

[ducatilover]

How the hell do you only get 25kw from a gsx-r 600. (I assume a GSX-R 600U is just a detuned gsxr??) Secondly, who the hell is going to know the difference between a GSXR 600 U whatever the hell it is and a good ol' gixxer 600 at full noise...the average copper ain't gonna know jack all. I can see this system being rather flawed.

It is a bit flawed :facepalm: Most bikes are fitted with intake restrictors, which makes them dead at a certain RPM. But, in the U.K people were buying carb'd 600cc bikes, restricted and puuling the restrictor plates out...33hp -100+ in 1 hour...:laugh:

[kickingzebra]

After a tenure with an 86 rothmans NSR 250 many moons ago, i still love two strokes... Wondering whether this is gonna see a bunch of them going cheap, or not... thoughts?
Also, what of the availabilty of bikes like the GSXR600U, I knew they were in the UK, but have never seen hide nor hair of any here. Market for restricting other more raceable bikes? Cant see any reference to any of the inline 4s of middling capacity, plenty of those would be under the kw/ton rating. Can of worms for the boys in blue to try and figure out, whats going to happen, any doubt and the onus of proof is on the rider? pulled up three times in three weeks, and have to provide a factory specification certificate everytime, cant say as though I would let the guys at VTNZ quickly whip the head off my bike to measure bore and stroke....
All in all, a good progressive step, but there seems to me to be rather a lot of unanswered questions.

[scott411]

It's not so much the HP. It's the delivery and the relative handling of the bike. The 2stroke 2-fiddies are twitchy little tykes at the best of times.

Me - I'm hoping to pick up a mint RS250 Ape in a year or so for less than $3000 - although maybe we could look at a racing class for the 2-fiddies if they get cheap enough.

they are already legal for Superlight (the old F3)

[mouldy]

I can see this working . EXC520 as a learner bike ! You stalled it , you need a few more revs . Oops A & E here we come .

[Tigadee]

Depends on where you look! It's either 53 or 42. My guess is 53 is at the crank and 42 is RWHP. It sure as shit doesn't feel like its pushing out 53 at the wheel. It's bloody slow

Heard back from NZTA - It will not be on the list officially. But if you apply for it, you can get an exemption for it as it is well below the 150kw limit, which is the technical criteria for my current exemption from the 250cc limit and thus how I got my XJ400.

[ducatilover]

The list is angering me, I haven't begun writing up the fixes for it and emailing it in yet.
It needs: More accuracy, eg; Kawasaki EN500 is not 500cc, it's 498cc.
Years of bikes; example, Honda CB400 models, it just says CB400...:facepalm:
There should be no need for exemption applications.
The smaller Ducatis should be on the list, they're gutless and cheap.
The GB500 isn't on the list, the 400 is.


I'm being pedantic, I don't care.

[Ender EnZed]

The list is angering me, I haven't begun writing up the fixes for it and emailing it in yet.
It needs: More accuracy, eg; Kawasaki EN500 is not 500cc, it's 498cc.
Years of bikes; example, Honda CB400 models, it just says CB400...:facepalm:
There should be no need for exemption applications.
The smaller Ducatis should be on the list, they're gutless and cheap.
The GB500 isn't on the list, the 400 is.


It's shit like this that makes it so interesting that bikes like the IT490, 525EXC and similar got on there. Because I really can't see Yamaha deciding to make a restrictor for a 30 year old big 2 stroke to make it learner legal!

[Tigadee]

The GB400/500, CB400/400F/N/T, CB500, NT400 Bros/NTV650 Revere and 650 Hyos are on the list they gave me for when I applied for my exemption. They must be using a shortened version for whatever reason(s)... Maybe they will update it later on.

[Glowerss]

The list is angering me, I haven't begun writing up the fixes for it and emailing it in yet.
It needs: More accuracy, eg; Kawasaki EN500 is not 500cc, it's 498cc.
Years of bikes; example, Honda CB400 models, it just says CB400...:facepalm:
There should be no need for exemption applications.
The smaller Ducatis should be on the list, they're gutless and cheap.
The GB500 isn't on the list, the 400 is.


I'm being pedantic, I don't care.

Please do :p It's a little bit ridiculous the list is as bad as it is. I mean holy smokes the Aussie LAMS list is like 5 times as long. Wouldn't it have been very easy just to copy over the aussie list?

It looks like they started just copying it across judging by how some aussie only imports (the 650SVU for example) are on the list, but then it's like they couldn't be bothered anymore.

Doubly annoying they admit my bike falls well within restrictions but can't be bothered adding it in either :P

[ducatilover]

It's shit like this that makes it so interesting that bikes like the IT490, 525EXC and similar got on there. Because I really can't see Yamaha deciding to make a restrictor for a 30 year old big 2 stroke to make it learner legal! It's going to be very interesting :banana: A 525EXC...oh dear me!


The GB400/500, CB400/400F/N/T, CB500, NT400 Bros/NTV650 Revere and 650 Hyos are on the list they gave me for when I applied for my exemption. They must be using a shortened version for whatever reason(s)... Maybe they will update it later on.
They're just being muppets. I imagine someone not so bike mad made the list.


Please do :p It's a little bit ridiculous the list is as bad as it is. I mean holy smokes the Aussie LAMS list is like 5 times as long. Wouldn't it have been very easy just to copy over the aussie list?

It looks like they started just copying it across judging by how some aussie only imports (the 650SVU for example) are on the list, but then it's like they couldn't be bothered anymore.

Doubly annoying they admit my bike falls well within restrictions but can't be bothered adding it in either :P
I think it's just a srtaight copy of the Aus one, but with a few zillion bikes discounted, all the U model Suzukis are Australia and U.K bikes, we never had them :facepalm: not a huge amount of research has gone in to this

It is still a great improvement over the old system, it just needs to be made better :2thumbsup

[fridayflash]

ive been waiting since 1988 for this to come in
finally im legal to ride my dr650:msn-wink:

[rastuscat]

It's far easier to sit back and criticize than to actually make an effort at doing the real job.

At least they are trying to make some sense of what has been a bollocks system since my RD250LC was learner legal. :clap:

[quickbuck]

It's far easier to sit back and criticize than to actually make an effort at doing the real job.

At least they are trying to make some sense of what has been a bollocks system since my RD250LC was learner legal. :clap:

EXACTLY

To all those who are saying, why don't you do this or do that to your bike on the LAMS list....
Well, guess what happens at the moment, people just buy a bigger bike, and don't worry about getting a licence!

Remember, there will always be thost that cheat the system, but at the end of the day, it is for a couple of years, get your full and ride what you like.... Not hard really.

[FJRider]

EXACTLY

To all those who are saying, why don't you do this or do that to your bike on the LAMS list....
Well, guess what happens at the moment, people just buy a bigger bike, and don't worry about getting a licence!

Remember, there will always be thost that cheat the system, but at the end of the day, it is for a couple of years, get your full and ride what you like.... Not hard really.

In my opinion ... there are a few bikes on the Lam's list that are allowed, that will test the nerves and ability of a few that choose to get one ... on their L-plate. There are a few challenged ones that struggle with them on a full licence.

I still think a small bike (under 250) will be a wise choice, untill at least the L-plate stage is done and dusted.

[ducatilover]

It's far easier to sit back and criticize than to actually make an effort at doing the real job.


Never fear, I'll be doing a lot of work to attempt to tidy this list up.
I imagine it'll fall on deaf ears, but it's worth a shot, for the greater good :shifty:

[tigertim20]

Never fear, I'll be doing a lot of work to attempt to tidy this list up.
I imagine it'll fall on deaf ears, but it's worth a shot, for the greater good :shifty:
someone needs to make the effort, because most on here will spend hours bitching on here and acheive nothing, instead of spending 20 minutes writing a letter and posting it away

[Tigadee]

Have sent my letter/email, at least in regards to my XJ400 and why it's not on the LAMS list even though I already have it now under exemption and based on a similar and more extensive pre-LAMS list.

[ducatilover]

someone needs to make the effort, because most on here will spend hours bitching on here and acheive nothing, instead of spending 20 minutes writing a letter and posting it away
I'll be doing a lot of searching and contacting people to get "official" specs, cross your fingers mate!

I have forks to rebuild first though :devil2:

[quickbuck]

In my opinion ... there are a few bikes on the Lam's list that are allowed, that will test the nerves and ability of a few that choose to get one ... on their L-plate. There are a few challenged ones that struggle with them on a full licence.

I still think a small bike (under 250) will be a wise choice, untill at least the L-plate stage is done and dusted.

Yes, 250 or under is indded a wise choice.
What LAMS does is allow those who are too big for a 250 to get a bike of appropriate size.

Remember too some people on L plates have been riding for years! Some have been riding for minutes. All said and done, I think now as ever it is important to get the correct bike for your needs/ abilities.

You are right, if I remember the IT490 correctly, It isn't exactly suitable as a road bike anyway.....

[Tricia1000]

List is pretty much a copy of the Victoria (Australia) State LAMS list.

It sure is, give that person a gold star!!!

[Tricia1000]

Speaking of, does anyone know how the LAMS NZ people are measuring horsepower? What metric are they using?

Would you like me to find out on Monday?

[ducatilover]

[Speaking of, does anyone know how the LAMS NZ people are measuring horsepower? What metric are they using?


Would you like me to find out on Monday?
Factory claimed HP, usually at the crank. However, I believe the RVF was making a tad more than the claimed power at the wheel.

[Glowerss]

[Speaking of, does anyone know how the LAMS NZ people are measuring horsepower? What metric are they using?


Would you like me to find out on Monday?

A definitive answer would be nifty, although I suspect ducatti is right in that it goes by factory quoted at the crank.

If you're taking requests on information, does anyone have any idea how the cross-over is going to work in regards to people already working their way through the system? IE I'll be 25 in November, and I'll be on my R late July. Under the old system (so far as I understand it), I'd be able to grab my full as soon as I hit 25 assuming I did the defensive driver course. How is it going to work once LAMS hits in October? Am I going to be required to do the new restricted period of what, a year? Or am I still going to fall under the old system as such and be able to go for my full in November? I've been looking but not been able to find a definitive answer.

Any info in that regards would be hugely appreciated :)

[Dave-]

The importers are going to love every dick asking them to add their bike to the list....

[awa355]

Yes, 250 or under is indded a wise choice.
What LAMS does is allow those who are too big for a 250 to get a bike of appropriate size.

Remember too some people on L plates have been riding for years! Some have been riding for minutes. All said and done, I think now as ever it is important to get the correct bike for your needs/ abilities.

You are right, if I remember the IT490 correctly, It isn't exactly suitable as a road bike anyway.....

Re your point about getting the correct bike, This may well work for me. I listed my XVS650 on trade me ( amongst 1300 other cruisers) this morning, and have have had several enquirys, from newbies with the law changes in mind. 15 on the watch list and 6 contacts.

One chap is 160kg and had been looking at a 250 Honda. Two seem quite serious and are coming on the weekend to view the bike.

Before the announced changes the 650 would have been in "no man's land" as far as selling attraction goes.

[The Lone Rider]

Some nice bikes there on the list.

I look forward to a drop in 250cc bikes. Might make for some good cheap projects.

[NinjaNanna]

Some nice bikes there on the list.

I look forward to a drop in 250cc bikes. Might make for some good cheap projects.

My suspicion is that prices of 250's will only drop slightly, and the value of the other bikes will come up to match the 250s.

My reasoning is that new riders have a budget to get into motorcycling - that budget will stay the same so prices won't drop that much even though supply will be better.

Some kids will want the full sports bike thing, others will want the small cruisers, the bigger guys will go with bigger/heavier bikes or the road/trail ones with high seat heights.

[The Lone Rider]

My suspicion is that prices of 250's will only drop slightly, and the value of the other bikes will come up to match the 250s.

My reasoning is that new riders have a budget to get into motorcycling - that budget will stay the same so prices won't drop that much even though supply will be better.

Some kids will want the full sports bike thing, others will want the small cruisers, the bigger guys will go with bigger/heavier bikes or the road/trail ones with high seat heights.

Well I'm going by the fact an XVS650 was listed, and having ridden one I'd been beyond happy to have been able to ride one of those on a learners. They cost the same as a comparable styled learners, and are more than capable of 150kmph if needed. They can get up to speed a lot safer than say, the virago 250.

[GrayWolf]

Well I'm going by the fact an XVS650 was listed, and having ridden one I'd been beyond happy to have been able to ride one of those on a learners. They cost the same as a comparable styled learners, and are more than capable of 150kmph if needed. They can get up to speed a lot safer than say, the virago 250.

yes I agree they can get to speed 'safer'? than a 250? In the wrong hands a bloody GN125 is lethal. This is the arguement we can never win, from either side. Newbie's especially the young will never listen to the 'fucking old bastards' who know nothing, and us 'old bastards' loose patience with repeatedly trying to explain things. Enough of us were killed on 'old' 250's as learners, which were/are slower than even the supposed 'slow' modern 250's, (4 and 2 cyl). The XV650 is about as fast as any British/BMW/HD of the 60's-70's, even slightly faster. Yet according to 'us' they are all low powered.
Yes we have 'basic' handling skills taught on a 1 day course, which is a vast improvement on my day on Loony plates. However do you REALLY think a 1 day course teaches you anything? What would be of more benefit is the RAC/ACU or Star rider style courses that were in effect when I left the UK. Several weekends (sunday mornings usually) in small groups with an instructor, doing basic handling skills and then out on a morning ride for assesssment and debrief/instruction. Many of these courses were either free or very low cost. I believe the UK Police also now are involved with rider training schemes such as described.
Of course you and others can sit there and pooh pooh this, do I care? Yes sadly like many old riders who have lost close friends/'brothers'...... but then, we are old and vulnerable.

[awa355]

Well I'm going by the fact an XVS650 was listed, and having ridden one I'd been beyond happy to have been able to ride one of those on a learners. They cost the same as a comparable styled learners, and are more than capable of 150kmph if needed. They can get up to speed a lot safer than say, the virago 250.

24 hours after listing, I've had 7 people making serious enquiries about my XVS650. All are larger built people about to get their learners, or are too big to be comfortable on their current bikes. So there's definately a market for the bigger bikes.

I had a school friend aged 16, who's parents bought him a Kwaka Mach111 500 back in 1970. Stephen's buried just along from my grandparents, in the Putaruru cemetary. I think an expanded restricted list of lower powered bikes is a good thing.

But like GreyWolf says, even an inexperienced rider, on a slow bike, can come unstuck. At the same time my friend got his Mach111, I ( 17 yrs), bought a brand new 750. Even at that age I was fairly level headed, and I survived without any lessons learnt the hard way.

And yes, the XVS goes a hellva lot better than those who have never ridden one, think they do.

[GrayWolf]

I had a school friend aged 16, who's parents bought him a Kwaka Mach111 500 back in 1970. Stephen's buried just along from my grandparents, in the Putaruru cemetary. I think an expanded restricted list of lower powered bikes is a good thing.

But like GreyWolf says, even an inexperienced rider, on a slow bike, can come unstuck. At the same time my friend got his Mach111, I ( 17 yrs), bought a brand new 750. Even at that age I was fairly level headed, and I survived without any lessons learnt the hard way.

And yes, the XVS goes a hellva lot better than those who have never ridden one, think they do.

Thats a sad story and often repeated (Stephen).. That bike was no learners machine, it was/is thanatoid. I also owned a mach111 (H1a). However when put into todays perspective of 'low power' it produced only a little over 60bhp... slightly more than a Bonneville/Commando etc.... it is the WAY the power is delivered and distributed then, the handling by the ''' errrrrrrr'' frame??

[awa355]

Thats a sad story and often repeated (Stephen).. That bike was no learners machine, it was/is thanatoid. I also owned a mach111 (H1a). However when put into todays perspective of 'low power' it produced only a little over 60bhp... slightly more than a Bonneville/Commando etc.... it is the WAY the power is delivered and distributed then, the handling by the ''' errrrrrrr'' frame??

He was a classic example of ' I'll grow into it'. I remember Doug Johnson trying to talk him into a DS7 250 instead, as his first bike. Proof that ability doesn't come out of a cheque book. .

[ducatilover]

Thats a sad story and often repeated (Stephen).. That bike was no learners machine, it was/is thanatoid. I also owned a mach111 (H1a). However when put into todays perspective of 'low power' it produced only a little over 60bhp... slightly more than a Bonneville/Commando etc.... it is the WAY the power is delivered and distributed then, the handling by the ''' errrrrrrr'' frame??
You're too right there mate, I'd say my 600 is a "safer" bike than one and it has a lot more top end power. Having a frame that's not made of cheese does help, and them round black thingies. :innocent:

[tigertim20]

You're too right there mate, I'd say my 600 is a "safer" bike than one and it has a lot more top end power. Having a frame that's not made of cheese does help, and them round black thingies. :innocent:

yeah, theres a shitload more to it than HP, tourque, chassis, tyre quality, suspension quality and settings and the biggest test = attitude

[awa355]

Sold my XVS650 this morning. Had three other contacts phoning to confirm they would buy it. All wanted it, because of the up coming changes to the LAMS regulations.

Without the new list, I would've probably had quite a job selling it. Got 14 other bikes on my watchlist already.

[ducatilover]

the biggest test = attitude
That's the one I failed several times...

[Tricia1000]

Basic handling skills changing on October 1st this year, is the latest news.
Much stricter criteria, which took a lot of debate and dialogue to be put together. Just needs a little more trialling, and should be ready for public consumption soon. Interesting couple of days in welly.

[duckonin]

Sold my XVS650 this morning. Had three other contacts phoning to confirm they would buy it. All wanted it, because of the up coming changes to the LAMS regulations.

Without the new list, I would've probably had quite a job selling it. Got 14 other bikes on my watchlist already.

:eek:And as a salesman goes you are good. You now have 14 bikes on your watchlist already after telling all prospective purchasers your XVS was too 'heavy' for you and you were giving up riding due to having a 'crook back'.:msn-wink: One was a lady friend of mine.

[GTRMAN]

Yes, 250 or under is indded a wise choice.
What LAMS does is allow those who are too big for a 250 to get a bike of appropriate size.

Remember too some people on L plates have been riding for years! Some have been riding for minutes. All said and done, I think now as ever it is important to get the correct bike for your needs/ abilities.

You are right, if I remember the IT490 correctly, It isn't exactly suitable as a road bike anyway.....

Sorry but I have to call bullshit on the whole "I need a bigger bike due to my size" arguement, when I finally decided to get my licence after riding for years I got a hyobag gt250, I am over 6 foot and at the time weighed in at over 160Kg. This bike was plenty big enough and handled fine, lots of leg room etc. There are plenty of 'full size' bikes around that you can ride without having to get a bigger capacity one.

That said it is a moot question now...

[Tigadee]

Any news on the fee structure for registration? There was some language in the annoucement about revision of the rego fees, was there not? Will it go to a multi-tiered system and no longer above-and-below 600cc?

[numbersixteen16]

Yes "mpdified bike", err sorry for misspelling

http://www.nzta.govt.nz/licence/getting/motorcycles/approved-motorcycles.html

"Any motorcycle modified in a way that increases its power-to-weight ratio is no longer LAMS-compliant, regardless of whether it appears on the list."

Sad, but I guess that means any learner riders better remove any performance upgrades (even though nobody will). Even an exhaust that doesn't add power will be decreasing weight, so is illegal. No lightweight parts either!! Those carbon levers have to go (technically).

[GrayWolf]

http://www.nzta.govt.nz/licence/getting/motorcycles/approved-motorcycles.html

"Any motorcycle modified in a way that increases its power-to-weight ratio is no longer LAMS-compliant, regardless of whether it appears on the list."

Sad, but I guess that means any learner riders better remove any performance upgrades (even though nobody will). Even an exhaust that doesn't add power will be decreasing weight, so is illegal. No lightweight parts either!! Those carbon levers have to go (technically).

whats the problem with this? They are learners, they dont yet HAVE the skills, so many like to believe they have... the bikes are quite fast/powerful enough to do the job... its only 'bullpaki ego' that dictates that ya gotta have the schizzz cuz its da effin bomb bro,... reality check? any 2 cylinder 240 has adequate performance for a learner.

[Asher]

All of those 250cc and under bikes that have been crashed or damaged and the parts been replaced with non OEM replacements will technically be illegal

[Jantar]

All of those 250cc and under bikes that have been crashed or damaged and the parts been replaced with non OEM replacements will technically be illegal

Only if they affect the power to weight ratio. Not all after market parts are lighter than origional or increase power, some are simply cosmetic.

[Asher]

True but it would be hard to know if a previous owner had done it.

But realistically how many 250 and under bikes would exceed 150kw/T? Its just creating unnecessary hassles

[ducatilover]

As far as I'm concerned that means less dicks riding loud CBR/ZXR etc etc things that sit at 8-10,000rpm at open road speeds :lol:

[ducatilover]

True but it would be hard to know if a previous owner had done it.

But realistically how many 250 and under bikes would exceed 150kw/T? Its just creating unnecessary hassles
My GN250 is technically illegal :lol::lol::lol::lol:

[breakaway]

So how are they going to police this? If you install an aftermarket muffler, /technically/ that may impact the power output of the engine right?

[nzspokes]

So how are they going to police this? If you install an aftermarket muffler, /technically/ that may impact the power output of the engine right?

They will have specifically trained staff. Yes thats the kind of thing they will be looking for.

People have to remember they are learners so they dont need huge HP. Just learn to stay alive.

[nzspokes]

My GN250 is technically illegal :lol::lol::lol::lol:

You GN technically doesnt go. :killingme

[SMOKEU]

It may even be illegal to service the bike with non genuine parts, as those consumables may weigh less than the genuine parts.

[Subike]

Well. then it stands to reason, by the opinion of this thread,
that any modifications to you learners bike,
will be flouting the law, thus making you illegal.
So I removed the passengers seat and foot pegs,
I have lightened the bike by .oh...3 kilos?
Shit, I might get another 5kph top end speed.....
But because I cant legally carry a passenger.
I took off what I dont need.
Bugger, I'm now outside the law.......strange.

I would think that the No Modification thing
would be more in line to apply to those bikes over 250CC that appear on the LAMs list.
As some of them are close to the limit,
and as discussed in other threads, would take little to modify past the limit.

And that any 250cc bike not listed on the LAMs list,
IMO, is free to be what ever it is..modified or not.

The over all message is that the people in this class are learners
Learners need to learn to become educated.
Getting out and riding sensibly powered bikes, that are reasonable to control, gives that education.
That education should come from being a survivor of the process without offs,
Not a victim of that education by becoming a statistic.

[bogan]

It may even be illegal to service the bike with non genuine parts, as those consumables may weigh less than the genuine parts.

Sorry sir, you only put 2L of oil in, it clearly says 2.3L, here's your pink sticker :nya:

[ducatilover]

You GN technically doesnt go. :killingme
Fucking semantics:bleh:

[dmc]

Sounds like an incentive to get your full as soon as possible, people can bitch but you're only on your learners for a short amount of time so just suck it up and once you have your full you can enjoy faster bikes with huge rego costs.
As far as if mods are legal or not it will fall back on the rider to prove its legal, if its obvious its not standard then your asking for trouble, if it looks legal then your probably not going to have a problem.
As you can tell I don't think its much of an issue, as now you can buy a lot more bikes even if you lose race rep two strokes from the list on your learners so it should be cheaper to get something more suitable, since you're only on your learners for a short amount of time then you have a whole life to enjoy what ever bike you want. If you're desperate to ride something faster get a track bike and go nuts.

[akkadian]

Swapped out the tail light on the mrs gn125 for a small led one yesterday. Cant wait to tell her she cant legally ride it for another 9 months as its 300gm lighter ;)

[ducatilover]

Sounds like an incentive to get your full as soon as possible, people can bitch but you're only on your learners for a short amount of time so just suck it up and once you have your full you can enjoy faster bikes with huge rego costs.
As far as if mods are legal or not it will fall back on the rider to prove its legal, if its obvious its not standard then your asking for trouble, if it looks legal then your probably not going to have a problem.
As you can tell I don't think its much of an issue, as now you can buy a lot more bikes even if you lose race rep two strokes from the list on your learners so it should be cheaper to get something more suitable, since you're only on your learners for a short amount of time then you have a whole life to enjoy what ever bike you want. If you're desperate to ride something faster get a track bike and go nuts.
I didn't realise you couldn't enjoy fast bikes on your learners? There's nothing stopping someone from buying any bike they want... :bleh:

[FJRider]

Swapped out the tail light on the mrs gn125 for a small led one yesterday. Cant wait to tell her she cant legally ride it for another 9 months as its 300gm lighter ;)

It wont change the power/weight ratio to outside the prescribed legal limits ... :rolleyes:

A cheap way to improve the ratio in her favour ... is put her on a diet. Perhaps you should suggest it .... :devil2:

[Asher]

It wont change the power/weight ratio to outside the prescribed legal limits ... :rolleyes:
The way it is written means that even if a modification only changes the power to weight from 1kw/t to 1.001kw/t it will be illegal

[FJRider]

I would think that the No Modification thing
would be more in line to apply to those bikes over 250CC that appear on the LAMs list.
As some of them are close to the limit,
and as discussed in other threads, would take little to modify past the limit.

And that any 250cc bike not listed on the LAMs list,
IMO, is free to be what ever it is..modified or not.


I dont think there's a need for you to carry passengers is there ... you don't have your full licence yet ... do you ... ??

I had a brief consultation with the guy at the local testing station on the subject ... his idea of the legislation as it is written is ... The basic power / weight ratio applies to all bikes available to those on the learner / restricted licence. The no modification rule is aimed at those with "Intent" to flout the ratio rule ... either by engine modification / improvement. Or the removal of factory fitted restriction, fitted at the time of manufacture.
Should an Officer of the Law have any doubts as to the ability of your bike to pass the required test ... An infringement notice MAY be issued ... AND ... a pink sticker (may) be attached to said bike. At the said Officer of the Law's descretion ... of course ...

You can apply for a bike not on the list ... to be put on the list.

[FJRider]

The way it is written means that even if a modification only changes the power to weight from 1kw/t to 1.001kw/t it will be illegal

With Police descretion in law enforcement ... re: The land Transport act ... I very much doubt if anybody will get pinged for a non standard tail light. Or similar. Unless of course you fail the attitude test after being stopped at the roadside.

[rastuscat]

With Police descretion in law enforcement ... re: The land Transport act ... I very much doubt if anybody will get pinged for a non standard tail light. Or similar. Unless of course you fail the attitude test after being stopped at the roadside.

I once got a ticket for doing 51 in a 50 k area. Cost me$210, revenue collecting bastards.

Then I got a ticket for my WoF running out by 1 day. 4 million dollar fine.

Then I went through a stop sign at 1 kmh, cost me 7 trillion demerit points.

Still, it gave me something to post on KB.

Harrumph.

[oneofsix]

You can apply for a bike not on the list ... to be put on the list.
No you can't, the manufacturer can but they wont be the ones modifying the bike will they?


With Police descretion in law enforcement ... re: The land Transport act ... I very much doubt if anybody will get pinged for a non standard tail light. Or similar. Unless of course you fail the attitude test after being stopped at the roadside.

Pack donuts and a Thermos of coffee. Now if you were to modify your bike to include a donut maker ...


I once got a ticket for doing 51 in a 50 k area. Cost me$210, revenue collecting bastards.

Then I got a ticket for my WoF running out by 1 day. 4 million dollar fine.

Then I went through a stop sign at 1 kmh, cost me 7 trillion demerit points.

Still, it gave me something to post on KB.

Harrumph.

Gees inflation really sucks. I guess 7 trillion demerit points means loss of licence in your future place.
Looks like your food to donut ratio is a bit off today :lol:

[GrayWolf]

I once got a ticket for doing 51 in a 50 k area. Cost me$210, revenue collecting bastards.

Then I got a ticket for my WoF running out by 1 day. 4 million dollar fine.

Then I went through a stop sign at 1 kmh, cost me 7 trillion demerit points.

Still, it gave me something to post on KB.

Harrumph.

Ahhhhhhh,
now we know why the donut supply has never been affected by the cut backs... the secret is out, it's DONUT revenue collecting, not for the Govt.

[FJRider]

I once got a ticket for doing 51 in a 50 k area. Cost me$210, revenue collecting bastards.

Then I got a ticket for my WoF running out by 1 day. 4 million dollar fine.

Then I went through a stop sign at 1 kmh, cost me 7 trillion demerit points.

Still, it gave me something to post on KB.

Harrumph.

The WoF is a safety issue ... and a stop sign does mean STOP ... (apparently) I guess the officers you met had used up all their descretion for those days.

[rastuscat]

The WoF is a safety issue ... and a stop sign does mean STOP ... (apparently) I guess the officers you met had used up all their descretion for those days.

No. I made it up. Pretty much KB business as usual.

[FJRider]

No. I made it up. Pretty much KB business as usual.

The thought went through my mind ... (a short trip) that you gave yourself the ticket ... being the honest chap you are ... :yes:

[clowndog]

I just emailed them today asking them to add my GB500 to the list.

Was kinda hard to find the specs in English, but with a bit of google translate I got there in the end.

They emailed me back within 20 minutes saying they will put it on the list as it complies. (of course it would!)

:banana:

Soo happy!

:)

[ducatilover]

I just emailed them today asking them to add my GB500 to the list.

Was kinda hard to find the specs in English, but with a bit of google translate I got there in the end.

They emailed me back within 20 minutes saying they will put it on the list as it complies. (of course it would!)

:banana:

Soo happy!

:)
Excellent, if I was to start over, the GB500 would be my learner bike, any day.

[clowndog]

Excellent, if I was to start over, the GB500 would be my learner bike, any day.

I'm excited to learn on this bike. Just got it Vinned and road legal too. :)

Now I'm guessing I can only go for my learners once October 1st comes around?

Before that though got to get some good gear. Any recommendations? I already have a nice helmet and hi vis vest.

[GrayWolf]

I'm excited to learn on this bike. Just got it Vinned and road legal too. :)

Now I'm guessing I can only go for my learners once October 1st comes around?

Before that though got to get some good gear. Any recommendations? I already have a nice helmet and hi vis vest.

Hi clowndog,
Welcome and a good choice of bike. Not sure what you call 'nice' for a helmet, looks or a good brand? It's not easy to 'tell another' to buy XYZ gear, sometimes body dimensions dictate what brands we can wear DAMHIK. All that can really be suggested is buy the best you can afford. Cheap jackets are just that, CHEAP unless you are buying a genuine 'clearance' bargain. Budget brands, 1 tonne, cnell etc are all easily found in the webby/tardme. Better brands Technix, Spidi, Ixon etc etc are usually in retail outlets. comes down to preference of style and look Vs Functionality.... My own preference is function over form, but it dont always look purty!

[clowndog]

Hi clowndog,
Welcome and a good choice of bike. Not sure what you call 'nice' for a helmet, looks or a good brand? It's not easy to 'tell another' to buy XYZ gear, sometimes body dimensions dictate what brands we can wear DAMHIK. All that can really be suggested is buy the best you can afford. Cheap jackets are just that, CHEAP unless you are buying a genuine 'clearance' bargain. Budget brands, 1 tonne, cnell etc are all easily found in the webby/tardme. Better brands Technix, Spidi, Ixon etc etc are usually in retail outlets. comes down to preference of style and look Vs Functionality.... My own preference is function over form, but it dont always look purty!

Thanks for that GrayWolf.

It's a Shoei helmet, just being lent it from a mate. But he says it is a good one.

I'm small to medium build. But yes safety comes first and hopefully the gear will look right with the GB500 if I can help it.:)

I'll keep a look out for the brands that you have recommended. Cheers!

[GoSlowR]

I'm excited to learn on this bike. Just got it Vinned and road legal too. :)

Now I'm guessing I can only go for my learners once October 1st comes around?

Before that though got to get some good gear. Any recommendations? I already have a nice helmet and hi vis vest.

Wouldn't it mean you could get your learners anytime, but you couldn't ride the GB500 until october??
Be hard to wait......:(

[ducatilover]

Ride it anyway :2thumbsup

[clowndog]

Ride it anyway :2thumbsup

Haha you guys!! Supposed to be teaching me good habits!

Found some Teknic jacket and pants. Fit perfectly basically new. That a good brand? Graywolf mentioned Technix.. is it the same thing he was talking about or is one a rip off?


:)

[Ender EnZed]

Haha you guys!! Supposed to be teaching me good habits!

Found some Teknic jacket and pants. Fit perfectly basically new. That a good brand? Graywolf mentioned Technix.. is it the same thing he was talking about or is one a rip off?


:)

Teknic is a well recognised brand that's sold is plenty of good bike shops. It's the one Graywolf would've been talking about.