Asset sales

[Brian d marge]

Say no gentlemen.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/7062894/Asset-sales-law-being-rushed-to-dodge-poll

Nothing good will come of this ...Think ACC price hikes

Stephen

[scott411]

Say no gentlemen.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/7062894/Asset-sales-law-being-rushed-to-dodge-poll

Nothing good will come of this ...Think ACC price hikes

Stephen

although i think its a bad thing, your acc price hike does not really compare because it is 100% goverment owned,

I think Air NZ has been a good model of how this can work, but I would not want to see the monopoly power companies sold off,

[Headbanger]

Say "no" how?

By non-binding referendum?

By voting in an online poll?

Two big wanks.

I voted National twice, to fix the books that were fucked by the commies and their policy of bleeding the working man to buy votes.

I say yes to doing what needs to be done, considering they are all a pack of self-interested cunts, if the books are better by the time we vote them out then its all good.

I would hope that any selling off of assets does stack up, and if not then "we" (we, being the people of NZ, not some ex-pat who has fucked off to Japan) do indeed say No, By rioting in the streets and setting fire to buildings.

If we don't, then it wasn't a big enough deal to get worked up over.

[Akzle]

say No, By rioting in the streets and setting fire to buildings.
kiwis are far too tame, this kind of shit doesn't get pulled off by politicians in the middle east because every guy has an AK47, and you piss too many off you're getting your parlimentary arse shot.

asset sales is stupid, as all kiwis have paid for all this shit (/been extorted for tax) and these investments are at the point where they've paid for the capital outlay and will now start generating a return. so instead of getting 100% returns for the next X decades we'll only get 51%. with the other 49% going offshore.
solid business practice, that.

the "money" gained in the short term will go toward reducing debt, or maybe they'll use it as leverage to get more debt... huh.

short term fix for long term problem. = full term clusterfuck

[Headbanger]

kiwis are far too tame, this kind of shit doesn't get pulled off by politicians in the middle east because every guy has an AK47, and you piss too many off you're getting your parlimentary arse shot.



Uh, The Middle East is the biggest cluster fuck of all time, and it doesn't seem that any of the despots in that region gave a flying fuck about the wishes of the people, they were too busy gunning them down to listen to them complain like whiny little bitches.

Fuck the middle east.


http://youtu.be/wtzlYaCU7k8

[flyingcrocodile46]

I say sell them to pay off debt but not interest payments.

Or better yet... Fuck the world banks and default on our loans. We should all go the way of Iceland and tell them to eat their loan contracts. They they are one of the few countries that have growing economies at present because they are free of the stifling oppression of debt.

If 90% of the wealth of the world resides with less than 10% of the population. Then clearly the 10% are the owners of all of the worlds debts. Fuck them, they can take a 10 to 50% loss and they will still be 500 to 900% better off than us.

Let the wealthy 10% suffer (as if they really would by our standards) instead of the poor 90%. That's how the world should solve it's economic problems.

[Brian d marge]

I say sell them to pay off debt but not interest payments.

Or better yet... Fuck the world banks and default on our loans. We should all go the way of Iceland and tell them to eat their loan contracts. They they are one of the few countries that have growing economies at present because they are free of the stifling oppression of debt.

If 90% of the wealth of the world resides with less than 10% of the population. Then clearly the 10% are the owners of all of the worlds debts. Fuck them, they can take a 10 to 50% loss and they will still be 500 to 900% better off than us.

Let the wealthy 10% suffer (as if they really would by our standards) instead of the poor 90%. That's how the world should solve it's economic problems.

Personally the second part of your post I would like to see happen , ,,,,Unfortuantly it would cause more short term hardship UNLESS the bases can be covered , such as redirecting the basic back to NZ people such as food, housing ( king of thing)

No in this case , Just dont sell the assest. doesnt matter the reason ( ACC while being government owned is /has been groomed for total/partial sale)

At the end of the day if the assets are sold , life for the average joe will get worse ,

Sod off America and leave people alone .


No im no going to elaborate on the above , can do ,but you know in your heart it will end in tears , for what ever reason you care to justify it with

...so just say no ...

Simple

NO


Stephen

[mashman]

bwaaaaaa ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaa. I hope they sell everything that isn't nailed down, then we get to blame Labour the next time there is a fuck up, irrespective that this govt's overseas borrowing is treble that of what Labours was... but don't let a good prejudice get in the way of an international lolly scramble, it's no fun when that happens.

Just say YES! future generations will thank you for it.

[SPman]

Personally the second part of your post I would like to see happen , ,,,,Unfortuantly it would cause more short term hardship UNLESS the bases can be covered , There's going to be hardship anyway - may as well put it to good use. Iceland had a short period of real hardship - but they took the peoples attention off it by prosecuting all the bankers and politicians who got them into the mess! plus....they're tougher than the NZ soft cocks!

[puddytat]

[QUOTE=Headbanger;1130337325]
I would hope that any selling off of assets does stack up, and if not then "we" (we, being the people of NZ, not some ex-pat who has fucked off to Japan) do indeed say No, By rioting in the streets and setting fire to buildings.

QUOTE]

I think that is really what it will take.
Proportional representation is the way to go....but it may mean that 1 or 2 politicians of very minor parties, will make the choice for all of us unless we do so......

[Brian d marge]

[QUOTE=puddytat;1130337534][QUOTE=Headbanger;1130337325]
I would hope that any selling off of assets does stack up, and if not then "we" (we, being the people of NZ, not some ex-pat who has fucked off to Japan) do indeed say No, By rioting in the streets and setting fire to buildings.

QUOTE]

This ex-pat ( who spends his money in NZ and sends a lot of work to NZ companies), spent many a year and his own money , ( quite a lot of it ) trying to reverse the idealistic mania of the New right. Student loans, privatisations etc .....

before realising that " I " only may have one life and there ( after travelling and living in a number of differing countries) is a better way of dealing with this

For a start I dont need to be inconvienience by the great unwashed , you lot want to sell the family silver, fine , pay more for daily services , fine

My family and I are ok ( made sure of that ) , but its a crying shame when u see someone/thing you love go down the pan ... when it doesnt need to ...

but then what do I know ......

Stephen

still musnt grumble the nice mr key is doing his best ....

[Headbanger]

Are you drunk?

[flyingcrocodile46]

Personally the second part of your post I would like to see happen , ,,,,Unfortuantly it would cause more short term hardship UNLESS the bases can be covered , such as redirecting the basic back to NZ people such as food, housing ( king of thing)

No in this case , Just dont sell the assest. doesnt matter the reason ( ACC while being government owned is /has been groomed for total/partial sale)

At the end of the day if the assets are sold , life for the average joe will get worse ,

Sod off America and leave people alone .

I don't see why it should cause any real hardship to the 90% (short term or otherwise). Other than for those who have money in the banks that is needed to live. Even that problem (and cashflow needs of local businesses/employers) could be sorted simply if banks are forced to use collected mortgage payments by redirecting them to meet local cash flow obligations (balancing loss of trading income from overseas, also to govt to distribute as aid to those who lose jobs (for a time) with manufacturing exporters etc). The local banks need to default on their overseas loans then once local banks have a float (for financing our national economy growth) any surplus mortgage payments can be directed as required in the interest of our own country in other areas. I know it ain't quite that simple but I don't see that short term cashflow disruption can't be adressed by the massive reduction in outgoing interest payments to overseas banks.

If the Govt defaults on its loans at the same time then the money it saves in interest payments (what is it about 10-15% of our GDP?) could be used as an opportunity to reduce taxes or fund other areas of needed expenditure.

Whatever/however. I am not an expert, but surely the billions of $ of potentially surplus anual taxation income (once initial lossed tax income revenues from disruption have settled) and the collective private outgoing mortgage payements is enough to fund the countrys needs moving forward.


No im no going to elaborate on the above , can do ,but you know in your heart it will end in tears , for what ever reason you care to justify it with

...so just say no ...

Simple

NO


Stephen

Unless you adopt my plan then I have to say NO to your plan as it is irresponsible to retain assets at the expense of burdening our children and children's children with endless fucking interest payments of billions of dollars each year. Get rid of the power companies before their value disappears overnight due to Zero free energy while still leaving a legacy of debt and no income value for future generations. They won't be worth fuck all in ten or twenty years anyway. Take the money and use it to reduce the country's debt.

We have been living beyond our means for years and when we find ourselves in the shit we go and borrow more. Fucking stupid. We are routinely told that we should manage our personal affairs by living within our means rather than digging a hole of debt in which we get buried. If the govt needs money to make up a shortfall we are better off as a nation to pay an increase in taxes and fund it ourselves here and now rather than borrow it. If we cant do that then we must either not spend the money or sell assets. that is the common dog fuck way to do it.

Ok, you can cry when you are ready :lol:

[Headbanger]

Lets just follow this through to its logical conclusion, The collapse of society, famine, disease, war, a new dark age.


Mashman can have his era without money.


Then we can start all over again.

[Brian d marge]

Are you drunk?
not yet

will be soon though after dinner

Stephen

[mashman]

Lets just follow this through to its logical conclusion, The collapse of society, famine, disease, war, a new dark age.


Mashman can have his era without money.


Then we can start all over again.

Fuck yeah... I'm going to go out and get shitfaced in anticipation.

[Brian d marge]

I don't see why it should cause any real hardship to the 90% (short term or otherwise). Other than for those who have money in the banks that is needed to live. Even that problem (and cashflow needs of local businesses/employers) could be sorted simply if banks are forced to use collected mortgage payments by redirecting them to meet local cash flow obligations (balancing loss of trading income from overseas, also to govt to distribute as aid to those who lose jobs (for a time) with manufacturing exporters etc). The local banks need to default on their overseas loans then once local banks have a float (for financing our national economy growth) any surplus mortgage payments can be directed as required in the interest of our own country in other areas. I know it ain't quite that simple but I don't see that short term cashflow disruption can't be adressed by the massive reduction in outgoing interest payments to overseas banks.

If the Govt defaults on its loans at the same time then the money it saves in interest payments (what is it about 10-15% of our GDP?) could be used as an opportunity to reduce taxes or fund other areas of needed expenditure.

Whatever/however. I am not an expert, but surely the billions of $ of potentially surplus anual taxation income (once initial lossed tax income revenues from disruption have settled) and the collective private outgoing mortgage payements is enough to fund the countrys needs moving forward.


Unless you adopt my plan then I have to say NO to your plan as it is irresponsible to retain assets at the expense of burdening our children and children's children with endless fucking interest payments of billions of dollars each year. Get rid of the power companies before their value disappears overnight due to Zero free energy while still leaving a legacy of debt and no income value for future generations. They won't be worth fuck all in ten or twenty years anyway. Take the money and use it to reduce the country's debt.

We have been living beyond our means for years and when we find ourselves in the shit we go and borrow more. Fucking stupid. We are routinely told that we should manage our personal affairs by living within our means rather than digging a hole of debt in which we get buried. If the govt needs money to make up a shortfall we are better off as a nation to pay an increase in taxes and fund it ourselves here and now rather than borrow it. If we cant do that then we must either not spend the money or sell assets. that is the common dog fuck way to do it.

Ok, you can cry when you are ready :lol:

um Im not disagreeing with u except for the point about asset sales, once they are gone , they are gone and they will be raped of value ( unless sold to a local " TRIBE" who see a steady income in their portfolio , either way maintance and rising costs are the worries

Delay , default on the loan let the bond rate go up , lend internally , yes this would mean the price of imports would go up ... but the basics would be cheaper ...
New Zealand was , ( and strangley is) well managed by the treasury but the pre muldoon way of living financially prudently and using work schemes was I feel the best way

Flogging off the few remaining bit of silver to cover a debt that is larger than the worth of the silver is short sighted .

So dont do it

Stephen

and the evil baskets are trying to push the law through under ugency ...ie 3am like they did before .........If labour do get in and delay /dont repeal the law it will show "who" is really pulling the strings ,,,,,,,

[98tls]

Money has to come from somewhere,no matter what the Labour party tell ya there is no fucking money tree its that simple.Any money made by the sale of assets will only be wasted by the next Labour Government anyway so its a tough one.Rock and hard place really,Labour wins some over with shit like "crippling our country" :Oi:Sorry i meant "working for famlies" and the next cab along has to claw some back from somewhere and on it goes.

[Brian d marge]

Money has to come from somewhere,no matter what the Labour party tell ya there is no fucking money tree its that simple.Any money made by the sale of assets will only be wasted by the next Labour Government anyway so its a tough one.Rock and hard place really,Labour wins some over with shit like "crippling our country" :Oi:Sorry i meant "working for famlies" and the next cab along has to claw some back from somewhere and on it goes.


who says theres no money?
Who is using the money
Who will gain from the asset sales
Who borrowed the money

might be a trick the tv might not be telling the truth ... i know it seems strange but it could be true .... I knew a tv once that was prone to the odd slip...

Stephen

[98tls]

who says theres no money?
Who is using the money
Who will gain from the asset sales
Who borrowed the money

might be a trick the tv might not be telling the truth ... i know it seems strange but it could be true .... I knew a tv once that was prone to the odd slip...

Stephen

Wouldnt know fella i only watch motor racing and some rugby.What i do know is there would be a lot more money if there wasnt so many handouts.

[scott411]

New Zealand was , ( and strangley is) well managed by the treasury but the pre muldoon way of living financially prudently and using work schemes was I feel the best way


this shows the problem of not paying back the debt, and why we did not have debt back then,

we did not import anywhere near as much as we do now, we can go back to those days, but the other things like waiting lists for imported things likes cars and bikes come back as well, and since not many of us will put up with it since we have seen what the consumerism is getting us now,

Iceland was a little bit different as it was the banks debt, not public debt they did not pay back,

[Brian d marge]

Wouldnt know fella i only watch motor racing and some rugby.What i do know is there would be a lot more money if there wasnt so many handouts.

they are called bailouts now ,

and you are absolutely right ....if I earn 10 dollars and the CEO make 4 , the bottle washer makes 1 that leaves 5 to do any useful work with

Trouble is

the money IS going to needy causes such as "oldies " those free bus passes all add up .......but IF we put the politicians on Taskforce green ....now THAT would free up some money ( actually we used to do that , once upon a time you had to PAY out of your own pocket to be a polly

Now that would make money!

Stephen

[98tls]

they are called bailouts now ,

and you are absolutely right ....if I earn 10 dollars and the CEO make 4 , the bottle washer makes 1 that leaves 5 to do any useful work with

Trouble is

the money IS going to needy causes such as "oldies " those free bus passes all add up .......but IF we put the politicians on Taskforce green ....now THAT would free up some money ( actually we used to do that , once upon a time you had to PAY out of your own pocket to be a polly

Now that would make money!

Stephen

There you go then:niceone:Sorted,am going a bit far now i know but chuck in going to work to raise your family and cancel the "heres a hundy for the pokies/car payment/Tab whatever floats your boat" just for having kids...possibilities are endless.

[flyingcrocodile46]

this shows the problem of not paying back the debt, and why we did not have debt back then,

we did not import anywhere near as much as we do now, we can go back to those days, but the other things like waiting lists for imported things likes cars and bikes come back as well, and since not many of us will put up with it since we have seen what the consumerism is getting us now,

Iceland was a little bit different as it was the banks debt, not public debt they did not pay back,

The problem isn't the lack of import restrictions, its the easy access to leverage our future income against todays want's and needs and the lack of self restraint to differentiate between and necisity and luxury. That and the blood sucking leaches that engineer the worlds financial systems to enslave the masses so they can engage in an orgy of power and money. Plain and simple Gluttony, theirs and ours.

[scott411]

The problem isn't the lack of import restrictions, its the easy access to leverage our future income against todays want's and needs and the lack of self restraint to differentiate between and necisity and luxury. That and the blood sucking leaches that engineer the worlds financial systems to enslave the masses so they can engage in an orgy of power and money. Plain and simple Gluttony, theirs and ours.

agreed that is was greed that got us where we are today, it was controlled back then by restrictions on lending, and importing, so it was near impossible to outlive your means,

[Headbanger]

Fuck yeah... I'm going to go out and get shitfaced in anticipation.

sweet, sounds like a cunning plan, calll in my place, I'll keep you company.

[Brian d marge]

The problem isn't the lack of import restrictions, its the easy access to leverage our future income against todays want's and needs and the lack of self restraint to differentiate between and necisity and luxury. That and the blood sucking leaches that engineer the worlds financial systems to enslave the masses so they can engage in an orgy of power and money. Plain and simple Gluttony, theirs and ours.

Gluttony ....got to like that , gives u a hell of a hangover though

Stephen

[mashman]

Money has to come from somewhere,no matter what the Labour party tell ya there is no fucking money tree its that simple.Any money made by the sale of assets will only be wasted by the next Labour Government anyway so its a tough one.Rock and hard place really,Labour wins some over with shit like "crippling our country" :Oi:Sorry i meant "working for famlies" and the next cab along has to claw some back from somewhere and on it goes.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/58/NZ_Govt_debt_1990-2011.svg

Who came to power in 2008?

[flyingcrocodile46]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/58/NZ_Govt_debt_1990-2011.svg

Who came to power in 2008?


It is plain retarded to try to compare the performance of the last 3.5 years against performance of previous years. Or perhaps you haven't noticed the global near meltdown that has seen literally every country in the world under perform massively. Countries that have or are soon to default on loans.

[mashman]

It is plain retarded to try to compare the performance of the last 3.5 years against performance of previous years. Or perhaps you haven't noticed the global near meltdown that has seen literally every country in the world under perform massively. Countries that have or are soon to default on loans.

Why? We've cut funding to all sorts of things like it's going out of fashion and yet we've given tax breaks? Can you tell me where the logic is in giving people tax breaks in a recession and then borrowing money to cover the shortfall (yes not all of the borrowing is to cover the shortfall, before you bunch yer undies)? I see no logic, none, zero, fuck all in such a strategy... and I'm the retarded one? Maybe Ed has a point :shifty:

[flyingcrocodile46]

Why? We've cut funding to all sorts of things like it's going out of fashion and yet we've given tax breaks? Can you tell me where the logic is in giving people tax breaks in a recession and then borrowing money to cover the shortfall (yes not all of the borrowing is to cover the shortfall, before you bunch yer undies)? I see no logic, none, zero, fuck all in such a strategy... and I'm the retarded one? Maybe Ed has a point :shifty:

Jesus. The tax break at an inopportune time was all about honouring an election promise. Seriously did you forget already. How much would people like you have moaned if they hadn't?

Ever heard of Christchurch? How many times did labour have to dip in to the coffers to cover destroyed cities between 93 and 2008?... :corn:

You know, when times are good we are supposed to set money aside for bad times. Labour governed during the good years and what did they do with the surpluses? Did they build us a nice little rainy day fund so we wouldn't suffer when the worlds economy turned to crap? Don't be so fucking stupid I hear you say, they fucking pissed it away by massively increasing expenditure on unsustainable PC shit and giving bigger handouts to their voter base. Which is a very large part of the problem we are now facing and why National are trying desperately to manage the books and are having to claw back expenditure where ever they can. Now that is retarded.

[mashman]

Jesus. The tax break at an inopportune time was all about honouring an election promise. Seriously did you forget already. How much would people like you have moaned if they hadn't?

Ever heard of Christchurch? How many times did labour have to dip in to the coffers to cover destroyed cities between 93 and 2008?... :corn:

You know, when times are good we are supposed to set money aside for bad times. Labour governed during the good years and what did they do with the surpluses? Did they build us a nice little rainy day fund so we wouldn't suffer when the worlds economy turned to crap? Don't be so fucking stupid I hear you say, they fucking pissed it away by massively increasing expenditure on unsustainable PC shit and giving bigger handouts to their voter base. Which is a very large part of the problem we are now facing and why National are trying desperately to manage the books and are having to claw back expenditure where ever they can. Now that is retarded.

bwaaaa ha ha ha haaa... yeah, saving face over helping the country really makes sense. I thought the nats were old hands at breaking election promises? Oddly enough there were a few of us saying that we'd happily go back to the original taxation model around about election time as we'd rather see the country access the steady revenue source that is income tax instead of borrowing. I'd think more of my politicians if they backed out of a crazy promise instead of putting us in a position where we need to sell assets. So no, I wouldn't have moaned at all, I would have applauded, tis only the smaller picture thinkers such as yourself that would cry foul about broken election promises.

Waaaa, waaaaa, waaaaa. Don't forget the crown guarantees too. I wonder how the Japanese accomplished so much with so little?

NO government in recent history saves for a rainy day, that's one of the reasons that ALL of them are in the shit. MEH! waffle bullshit bah bah black sheep hook line and sinker and a bene bashing just for good measure. You do realise that some people HAVE to be unemployed don't you? I mean you're obviously in to defending idiocy by using the reality of the situation as an excuse, how do you defend your own?

[flyingcrocodile46]

bwaaaa ha ha ha haaa... yeah, saving face over helping the country really makes sense. I thought the nats were old hands at breaking election promises? Oddly enough there were a few of us saying that we'd happily go back to the original taxation model around about election time as we'd rather see the country access the steady revenue source that is income tax instead of borrowing. I'd think more of my politicians if they backed out of a crazy promise instead of putting us in a position where we need to sell assets. So no, I wouldn't have moaned at all, I would have applauded, tis only the smaller picture thinkers such as yourself that would cry foul about broken election promises.

Waaaa, waaaaa, waaaaa. Don't forget the crown guarantees too. I wonder how the Japanese accomplished so much with so little?

NO government in recent history saves for a rainy day, that's one of the reasons that ALL of them are in the shit. MEH! waffle bullshit bah bah black sheep hook line and sinker and a bene bashing just for good measure. You do realise that some people HAVE to be unemployed don't you? I mean you're obviously in to defending idiocy by using the reality of the situation as an excuse, how do you defend your own?

I imagine that you know fuck all about the Japanese economy as you sure as shit don't have a clue about ours.

For the record I don't think the tax saving amounted to fuck all in my case. It didn't even register, so No, I neither needed nor wanted the 10 cents an hour or whatever the fuck it was. It was a total waste of time and money imo.

BTW Interesting to see that you don't have a problem with the concept of dishonoring promises. Say's a lot about your character .:rolleyes:

I can't be arsed debating with left wing soft cock bleeding heart fuckwits that refuse to acknowledge simple facts and who would rather attempt to deflect from them by piling more shit on the cart (I guess that'll happen when it's all you have to offer though eh)

[Akzle]

Wouldnt know fella i only watch motor racing and some rugby.What i do know is there would be a lot more money if there wasnt so many handouts.* politicians, personal taxes, debt, etc.


...I can't be arsed debating with left wing soft cock bleeding heart fuckwits that refuse to acknowledge simple facts and who would rather attempt to deflect from them by piling more shit on the cart
wow. with good people like you, how ever did the country come to the point it is now?

[Headbanger]

bwaaaa ha ha ha haaa...

Just to clarify,

it seems you are stating

a) Governments should not honour promises?
b)The ChCh earthquake either didn't happen or has no impact on our economy and economic policy?
c)The worldwide recession either didn't happen or has no impact on our economy and economic policy?
d)Labour didn't instigate unaffordable long term schemes to buy votes that we still have to service?

if so, Are you in some sort of alternative universe?.....when you look up, what colour is the sky?

[Brian d marge]

Folk , its not national or labour , its America , through the imf and world bank , "suggesting " we follow an economic model ... as in an " offer you cant refuse .....

Focus on the goal , not the sidelines

Stephen

[mashman]

I imagine that you know fuck all about the Japanese economy as you sure as shit don't have a clue about ours.

For the record I don't think the tax saving amounted to fuck all in my case. It didn't even register, so No, I neither needed nor wanted the 10 cents an hour or whatever the fuck it was. It was a total waste of time and money imo.

BTW Interesting to see that you don't have a problem with the concept of dishonoring promises. Say's a lot about your character .:rolleyes:

I can't be arsed debating with left wing soft cock bleeding heart fuckwits that refuse to acknowledge simple facts and who would rather attempt to deflect from them by piling more shit on the cart (I guess that'll happen when it's all you have to offer though eh)

:rofl: ooo goody I am dismissed.

It made a difference to the economy though. Doh, sorry, I know nothing :facepalm:

:killingme that's fuckin GOLD! Where keeping a promise does more harm than good you're damn right I'll change my mind. And you're right, that does highlight my character. Much better than being a fuckin idiot and allowing the majority to suffer because of a promise. That says a lot about your character.

Bwaaaaa aha ha ha ha haaaaaaaa... I'm not left wing, I'm not a soft cock, I'm not a bleeding heart, I am a fuckwit, and if you had read the post that you have quoted, you'll see that I not only acknowledged it, I also added crown bailouts to the financial pain... but of course you're too much of a blinkered right wing fucktard to have considered any of that... instead you deflect from the debate by rolling out the old left soft cock commy tree hugging bollocks which only underpins the strength of your character. I guess that'll happen when it's all you have to offer though eh.

[mashman]

Just to clarify,

it seems you are stating

a) Governments should not honour promises?
b)The ChCh earthquake either didn't happen or has no impact on our economy and economic policy?
c)The worldwide recession either didn't happen or has no impact on our economy and economic policy?
d)Labour didn't instigate unaffordable long term schemes to buy votes that we still have to service?

if so, Are you in some sort of alternative universe?.....when you look up, what colour is the sky?

a) Not when that promise fucks the country over even further.
b) I never said anything of the sort.
c) I never sad anything of the sort.
d) I give a shit not what previous govts did. They come and go and they change their policies removing useful schemes that cost a lot or implementing shit schemes that don't have enough funding. It's absolutely hillhairyarse that people see these things in the context of left and right. The govt are the govt and I care not the colour of the flag, but I do care in regards to what they do. If I disagree with it, then I'll disagree with it and in the case of asset sales it would seem an awful lot of the country are swallowing the shit where putting the taxation system back to where it was may actually allow us to save some of those revenues. You gotta ask why the govt don't understand that. The fact that you dickwads defend it as not wanting to break a promise is outfuckinstanding given that we're talking about politicians.

It's called reality, the big pictureverse. The transparent sky changes colour as we orbit the sun and rotate

[puddytat]

Maybe we'dve been better off if it had been the French who'd colonised us.....we'd be a Republic & we'd stand up to the Government of the day alot more proudly , openly & definitely loudly. Not so anally retentive as our victorian ancestors who colon-ised this place & left us
so freakin divided over just about everything except no nukes.
I bet you the Krauts & Frogs arnt selling state assets at the mo.

[blue rider]

Jesus. The tax break at an inopportune time was all about honoring an election promise. Seriously did you forget already. How much would people like you have moaned if they hadn't?

I am still waiting for my tax cut....! but some nice reading here http://thestandard.org.nz/john-keys-top-ten/

Ever heard of Christchurch? How many times did labour have to dip in to the coffers to cover destroyed cities between 93 and 2008?... :corn:

no cities destroyed by earthquakes true that , but a nice read here http://www.niwa.co.nz/climate/summaries/annual, it was rather wet and flooding were the norm, droughts also....but true not a city destroyed by an earthquake

You know, when times are good we are supposed to set money aside for bad times. Labour governed during the good years and what did they do with the surpluses? Did they build us a nice little rainy day fund so we wouldn't suffer when the worlds economy turned to crap? no banks got bailed out under National? No insurance companies got bailed out under National? No investment companies lost their gambling bet and the savings of hundreds of New Zealanders? Don't be so fucking stupid I hear you say, they fucking pissed it away by massively increasing expenditure on unsustainable PC shit and giving bigger handouts to their voter base. Which is a very large part of the problem we are now facing and why National are trying desperately to manage the books and are having to claw back expenditure where ever they can. Now that is retarded.


Just to clarify,

it seems you are stating

a) Governments should not honour promises? "John Key's changing his mind http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SWwHX0J5bk
National wants to cut taxes and not raise them......other then raise GST.....which is payable only by the end consumer, all others are GST registered and it is a run through post.....

b)The ChCh earthquake either didn't happen or has no impact on our economy and economic policy?

stupid vapid comment, offensive really

c)The worldwide recession either didn't happen or has no impact on our economy and economic policy?

the world wide recessions is due to major banks having gambled with monopoly money and lost. And they now expect the people of this planet to bail them out ......since when are we so generous with welfare bludgers that gamble?

d)Labour didn't instigate unaffordable long term schemes to buy votes that we still have to service?

and national does nothing of the sort. Education anyone....oh yeah all your children go to private school .....Yeah sure Tui

if so, Are you in some sort of alternative universe?.....when you look up, what colour is the sky?
blue, overcast with a tendency to rain...




Folk , its not national or labour , its America , through the imf and world bank , "suggesting " we follow an economic model ... as in an " offer you cant refuse .....

Focus on the goal , not the sidelines



Stephen

what brian d' said.

selling your water rights, your land, by default is stupid. So you are going to be tenants in your own country, and what are you leaving behind for your children? ......Oh yea, not your problem, you be dead by then and old and thanks to the dear Leader you all have yours and the rest can be just compete with Grandpa for a MacDo Job.


it is going to be an awesome future, in which only a few can read and write, the rest will sign with a thump print, water will cost you a weekly allowance...and for dinner you get soylent green. Awesome :brick:

[98tls]

According to some Maori we are tenants,rents fucking high if you ask me.

[flyingcrocodile46]

blue, overcast with a tendency to rain...

what brian d' said.

selling your water rights, your land, by default is stupid. So you are going to be tenants in your own country, and what are you leaving behind for your children? ......Oh yea, not your problem, you be dead by then and old and thanks to the dear Leader you all have yours and the rest can be just compete with Grandpa for a MacDo Job.


it is going to be an awesome future, in which only a few can read and write, the rest will sign with a thump print, water will cost you a weekly allowance...and for dinner you get soylent green. Awesome :brick:

Yes, he is right. It isn't about the parties, it's the decisions they choose to make in allowing the international financial system (world wank, IMF etc) to set the rules. Both are as bad as each other in respect to facilitating our individual and collective stupidity. Interesting that in America a similar awareness is kicking in http://www.newcriterion.com/articles.cfm/Future-tense--X--The-fourth-revolution-7395

Yes, it is wrong to waste energy bitching over which party was/is the most stupid when the difference is so negligible in the bigger picture. We need a new financial model (based neither on population growth, and or usury reward) built from the last by way of concurrent and rapid dismantling of the old and wealth redistribution/writing off of debts.

We also need a shitload more things, but a good place to start.

Sorry Mashman

[flyingcrocodile46]

According to some Maori we are tenants,rents fucking high if you ask me.

Heh! I thought the Queen and churches own it/us all, then the banks.

[Headbanger]

It's

Funny enough I agree a lot of the time with your sentiments, The failure is in the delivery.

[mashman]

Sorry Mashman

What the fuck are you apologising for dickhead? :innocent:


Funny enough I agree a lot of the time with your sentiments, The failure is in the delivery.

:killingme dunno what the fuck you're talking about :innocent:

[blue rider]

just came accross this one....
the more things change the more they stay the same...

oh yeah....we are collectively fucked....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLSveRGmpIE

[Brian d marge]

Empires roughly have a 500 year life span , only 200 to go for the American one

Stephen

ps , the thinkers of the enlightenment flooded to America hell bent on starting a new land where the excesses of the ancien regime wouldn’t flourish, They screwed that up in less than 200 years , well done,, pat that man on the back , Job well done .

[flyingcrocodile46]

Empires roughly have a 500 year life span , only 200 to go for the American one

Stephen

ps , the thinkers of the enlightenment flooded to America hell bent on starting a new land where the excesses of the ancien regime wouldn’t flourish, They screwed that up in less than 200 years , well done,, pat that man on the back , Job well done .

The enlightened were the believers in the less popular religions of the day, who were being persecuted in their own countrys. In many cases they were promised land from states that were carved up and handed to various religious groups. That and the freedom to believe in whatever god they wanted to. However it appears that the muslims were not invited.

Unlike in their home countrys, religions recieved no handouts from the govts/kings coffers so they were granted the freedom to collect what they could Tax free. This ultimitely resulted in the eveangelistic promotion of various religions and arguably the most polished, dishonest and corrupt marketing strategies devised.

[oldrider]

The enlightened were the believers in the less popular religions of the day, who were being persecuted in their own countrys. In many cases they were promised land from states that were carved up and handed to various religious groups. That and the freedom to believe in whatever god they wanted to. However it appears that the muslims were not invited.

Unlike in their home countrys, religions recieved no handouts from the govts/kings coffers so they were granted the freedom to collect what they could Tax free. This ultimitely resulted in the eveangelistic promotion of various religions and arguably the most polished, dishonest and corrupt marketing strategies devised.

Any type of political system will work to some degree or other, that has been proven over and over throughout history!

What doesn't work (except for those that control it) is the financial system that distributes the goods and services of world society!

Currently every country in the world is up to it's ears in choking "debt" to the "financial system"! ... To whom are they actually in debt?

Quote: "Give me control of the finances of the world ... I care not who makes the laws!" Lord Rothschild, governor of the bank of England!

http://www.darkpolitricks.com/2010/01/who-owns-the-bank-of-england/

http://the-tap.blogspot.co.nz/2010/02/who-owns-bank-of-england.html

http://voteforit.org/index.php/end-the-bank-of-england/19-who-owns-the-bank-of-england-the-truth

That which is physically and technically possible as well as socially desirable and beneficial should be made financially available!

That is what the financial system is for ... it is man made and man controlled but currently for who's benefit? ... That is the real question! :yes:

[flyingcrocodile46]

Any type of political system will work to some degree or other, that has been proven over and over throughout history!

What doesn't work (except for those that control it) is the financial system that distributes the goods and services of world society!

Currently every country in the world is up to it's ears in choking "debt" to the "financial system"! ... To whom are they actually in debt?

Quote: "Give me control of the finances of the world ... I care not who makes the laws!" Lord Rothschild, governor of the bank of England!

http://www.darkpolitricks.com/2010/01/who-owns-the-bank-of-england/

http://the-tap.blogspot.co.nz/2010/02/who-owns-bank-of-england.html

http://voteforit.org/index.php/end-the-bank-of-england/19-who-owns-the-bank-of-england-the-truth

That which is physically and technically possible as well as socially desirable and beneficial should be made financially available!

That is what the financial system is for ... it is man made and man controlled but currently for who's benefit? ... That is the real question! :yes:

Yes! The Rothchilds started their play for total control of the world back in the mid 1700's

[Akzle]

The enlightened were the believers in the less popular religions of the day, who were being persecuted in their own countrys. In many cases they were promised land from states that were carved up and handed to various religious groups. That and the freedom to believe in whatever god they wanted to. However it appears that the muslims were not invited.

Unlike in their home countrys, religions recieved no handouts from the govts/kings coffers so they were granted the freedom to collect what they could Tax free. This ultimitely resulted in the eveangelistic promotion of various religions and arguably the most polished, dishonest and corrupt marketing strategies devised.and don't forget, they killed about 95% of the dark folk that were on that land first... YAY DEMOCRACY.

land of the thief and home of the slave...

[Brian d marge]

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/AHo2pXO_XAI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


Stephen

[blue rider]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/c61.0.403.403/p403x403/574698_246928972071308_757927654_n.jpg

[Brian d marge]

National radio was good

Mc cormack ( sp) hit the nail on the head

but ,,,the guest who analysed the water and electricity ..

Water 17 % increase above the norm , electricity ...400% above what it should be ( have been )

Ohh that smarts , even with valoline .........


Stephen

[puddytat]

I wouldnt be surprised if the Maori party sells out....so its going to come down to Sharples & Turei & Dunn.

I cant believe that this is going to happen all over again....We dont fucking deserve this country if we let this happen.
Sign a petititon!!

http://www.greens.org.nz/press-releases/national-s-asset-sales-would-mean-higher-power-prices
http://www.greens.org.nz/press-releases/where-authority-national-s-400m-give-away

[pete376403]

Nothing this "government" says its going to do surprises me any more. Eg Bill Dinglish - we're (govt) going to borrow $4 or more billion we can lend it to the IMF if they need to bail out countries in financial crap. Lending the $4b (or so) to the IMF will show countries who buy our stuff that we're good people, so we can continue borrowing the money ($300m/week IIRC) that the govt claims is needed to keep the country afloat.
Meanwhile, Peter Dunne says his campaign promise about not privatising water rights does not conflict with asset sales, because the hydro power operators dont have water rights, they have rights to use water. Anyway, the income the govt will loose by selling the assets (which we taxpayers currently own) will be recouped by increasing taxes on the people who previously owned said assets.

"Alice in Wonderland" was fiction, but these guys leave Lewis Carroll for dead

[ducatilover]

I don't get it
http://www.economist.com/content/global_debt_clock

I would like to find the magic money place and get some too please. :facepalm:

Next week: Ducatilover goes to Mozambique to explore a country more financially secure than the U.S.A.

[Brian d marge]

debt as we know it , isn’t what these nuts think of

if I give you 10 dollars , u have a debt to me for an agreed amount , usually 10 plus a beer

these nuts say; I have ten dollars , but I will write an secure note to any shop u want to spend it at , they can cash it if they want ...oh and you can do this 9 times , and the same goes for the people you gave my money note to , they can do it 9 times ,,,,,,,, so from 10 dollars ...these nuts lent out 81 or more dollars , 81 beers at least

the solution is surprisingly simple;

don’t go into debt , grow trade and barter locally, and say no to any grand schemes.......and of course dont use .....

me , NZ government is not getting one red cent from me . I will give my tax to those who need it,,and do ! ( I heard a great story about a beneficiary who makes ends meet , grows veges etc and is able to give to the sally army his surpluses ... well done that man ) but thats another story ..

now this dont use .....Dont use ( as much as u feel comfortable with )

Ive seen diesel generators on trade me 6k new ( Chinese probably) ,,,,and a quick trip to the chippy ( if you can get it ) ... even using that for say the summer to heat the water ...( just an idea but u get the point ) vegetable gardens , beer , fuel .....some bright spark might even figure out internet ! all u can use free internet !!

here , every pint of home-brew I make is one less dollar in the pocket of a company who has no regard for peoples health ..... ( healthy , cheap and better tasting ........screw u asahi )


up the rebels !!!!

Stephen

[Brian d marge]

I don't get it
http://www.economist.com/content/global_debt_clock

I would like to find the magic money place and get some too please. :facepalm:

Next week: Ducatilover goes to Mozambique to explore a country more financially secure than the U.S.A.

not my debt and I wont pay .( play)

Stephen

[Fast Eddie]

haha i like this quote i saw online.. probably quite true - one last push to get paiiiiiddd.

"This is an ineffective Government that knows this could be their last opportunity to line their pockets. "

p.s. I never voted for national ever..

wtf were the rest of you doing?

I smelled a rat ages a go just by looking at his face and listening to him talk. Rather a butch female run the joint than a camp shonkey wonkey

[superman]

I don't see a problem with asset sales. They didn't exactly hide it in their election campaign.

National is trying to reduce New Zealand's debt. Freeing up SOE's also gives locals a chance to buy into a stable investment. And perhaps get New Zealanders away from the house market and investing in businesses as they should be.

I'll happily scrounge together the money to buy shares in the SOE's.

He's also being a good guy and doing things he wouldn't have to, setting up loyalty schemes for New Zealanders, the Treasury is actively trying to get as many locals investing as possible.

So how about you just buy a few thousand dollars worth instead of bitching about a right wing government committing right wing actions.

[Brian d marge]

I don't see a problem with asset sales. They didn't exactly hide it in their election campaign.

National is trying to reduce New Zealand's debt. Freeing up SOE's also gives locals a chance to buy into a stable investment. And perhaps get New Zealanders away from the house market and investing in businesses as they should be.

I'll happily scrounge together the money to buy shares in the SOE's.

He's also being a good guy and doing things he wouldn't have to, setting up loyalty schemes for New Zealanders, the Treasury is actively trying to get as many locals investing as possible.

So how about you just buy a few thousand dollars worth instead of bitching about a right wing government committing right wing actions.
The treasury ( operating under world bank rules is doing a great job , actually it is ! ) ,,but the "guidelines laid down by Imf/wb aka America from the Chicago school , is all about making a few people rich ,,,it does nothing for the avrage joe ( who may not want to be rich) , and if you buy into the idea that hard work and a little bit of luck you to can become rich ,...well... good luck

Most people in NZ I would say are not as secure as they could be ...

Actually I dont envy JK position , he must do as he is told by the bank ( world or treasury either or !) and at the same time give the people what they want .... now international fiance is all about Money ,,,,NOT your child’s education

Under the SOE model according to the interviewee on National radio ,since 1991 your electricity prices are 400 400 % greater than what they should be under the old electricity board ... 400%

that’s disgraceful

that was under both national AND labour .......so why both parties ??? could it be a higher power is calling the shots ???

Stephen

[superman]

Under the SOE model according to the interviewee on National radio ,since 1991 your electricity prices are 400 400 % greater than what they should be under the old electricity board ... 400%

that’s disgraceful

that was under both national AND labour .......so why both parties ??? could it be a higher power is calling the shots ???

Stephen

Bitching about high energy prices is like bitching about high oil prices. So many oil rich countries have huge reserves, but they hoard it. Because this drives up the price. But this isn't necessarily bad for the consumer...

High energy prices encourages development of cheaper alternatives, more efficient systems. People don't have to stick with one energy company, they can invest in solar energy, not hard/expensive to create a home-made wind electricity generator. Even governments start to invest more in alternatives if prices are adversely affecting their citizens, maybe fusion will get the type of funding it really deserves.

Every single house in New Zealand will waste electricity, it's impossible not to. But the more valuable it is, the less people will allow themselves to.

[Brian d marge]

Bitching about high energy prices is like bitching about high oil prices. So many oil rich countries have huge reserves, but they hoard it. Because this drives up the price. But this isn't necessarily bad for the consumer...

High energy prices encourages development of cheaper alternatives, more efficient systems. People don't have to stick with one energy company, they can invest in solar energy, not hard/expensive to create a home-made wind electricity generator. Even governments start to invest more in alternatives if prices are adversely affecting their citizens, maybe fusion will get the type of funding it really deserves.

Every single house in New Zealand will waste electricity, it's impossible not to. But the more valuable it is, the less people will allow themselves to.
As I prieviously said , and in other threads as well , thing is it doesnt have to be that expensive , , ( as expensive , ) yes investment was is needed , but the old way was work schemes and prudent borrowing ( or something like that )

Every glass of home brew I make is a personal fu ,,to "the man" as he was called back in the day !!! im all for home generation ....

no , in this case its just ROI , at the expense of Joe plumber ...

Stephen

[SPman]

I don't see a problem with asset sales. They didn't exactly hide it in their election campaign.

National is trying to reduce New Zealand's debt. Freeing up SOE's also gives locals a chance to buy into a stable investment. And perhaps get New Zealanders away from the house market and investing in businesses as they should be.

I'll happily scrounge together the money to buy shares in the SOE's.

He's also being a good guy and doing things he wouldn't have to, setting up loyalty schemes for New Zealanders, the Treasury is actively trying to get as many locals investing as possible.



If you believe all that, have I got a deal for you........

If you were in any doubt, this should make it clear. Privatisation is not about "freeing up capital" or "getting a good deal for New Zealanders". It is about wealth transfer, pure and simple. It is about taking something which belongs to everyone, and giving it (and its monopoly power and dividend stream) over to the 1%. And then to add insult to injury National is going to give them an extra $400 million on top, just to reward them for buying in.

[puddytat]

So how about you just buy a few thousand dollars worth instead of bitching about a right wing government committing right wing actions.

The majority of us dont want that option & never asked for it. Seems a hell of a lot to give away to only do the financial equivalent of putting a finger in a dyke.
Sure you voted the buggers in, but even at that time over 80% were totally against the idea.But thats Capatalism for you, divide & conquer is thier mantra, dangle a carrot to the ever greedy & thier ceaseless struggle to gain riches....And spineless two faced politicians do the job .
People are dreaming if they think that this'll make our countries plight any better.

[pete376403]

The "loyalty scheme" which I understand is giving NZ shareholders free shares if they hold the paid ones for a certain period. Green party leader pointed out this is illegal - the govt cannot "give away" money without a law to provide for it. Also every share the want to give away dilutes the value of the ones that have been bought.

[mashman]

I don't get it
http://www.economist.com/content/global_debt_clock

I would like to find the magic money place and get some too please. :facepalm:

Next week: Ducatilover goes to Mozambique to explore a country more financially secure than the U.S.A.

probably just interest.

[ducatilover]

probably just interest.

Do you know where the magic money is made? If so, put the kettle on mate

[Brian d marge]

The magic money is made north of Auckland , its environmentally safe , a carbon sink , ( until the end user ) and makes communitys thrive ,,,

Stephen

[mashman]

Do you know where the magic money is made? If so, put the kettle on mate

Yes, yes I do... but you need special specs to be able to see it to pluck it out of, what looks like, thin air. Iffen ye find the specs of yore I'll throw the kettle on as they're supposed to allow you to see through lead... and ladies clothing. The trick is knowing how to use the magic money without achually being able to see it. Unfortunately I think some others have figured that out too and whilst I'm prepared to give the secret away for free, them feckers would rather charge for it... meanwhile, on the bright side, there's always

http://stoppopculture.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/bud-light-tits.jpg

[ducatilover]

Thanks Mashman, I have completely forgotten about the stuff and things we were titting about, breast not put on the jugs.

[mashman]

Thanks Mashman, I have completely forgotten about the stuff and things we were titting about, breast not put on the jugs.

hee hee... tits always good to help... I guess I better put the cups away

[ducatilover]

hee hee... tits always good to help... I guess I better put the cups away

On second thought, put the jug on and I'll nipple right down.

[Oscar]

The "loyalty scheme" which I understand is giving NZ shareholders free shares if they hold the paid ones for a certain period. Green party leader pointed out this is illegal - the govt cannot "give away" money without a law to provide for it. Also every share the want to give away dilutes the value of the ones that have been bought.

I haven't seen the Green Party comment but what you've reported they've said is not logical. It isn't money and any private company can give shares away if they like, and frequently do (usually to employees).

[Oscar]

I don't see a problem with asset sales. They didn't exactly hide it in their election campaign.

National is trying to reduce New Zealand's debt. Freeing up SOE's also gives locals a chance to buy into a stable investment. And perhaps get New Zealanders away from the house market and investing in businesses as they should be.

I'll happily scrounge together the money to buy shares in the SOE's.

He's also being a good guy and doing things he wouldn't have to, setting up loyalty schemes for New Zealanders, the Treasury is actively trying to get as many locals investing as possible.

So how about you just buy a few thousand dollars worth instead of bitching about a right wing government committing right wing actions.

I'm with you - it isn't like we weren't warned, National made it a campaign issue from the start.

Personally, whereas I think strategic assets should be under Govt. control, I don't see why they have to hold 100% of the value. I’ll be queuing up to buy some shares.

[Akzle]

funny. and here i was thinking that being STATE OWNED enterprises and y'all being subjects of the state, that you mighta already owned em.
something to do with taxation and whatnot...
fool be me eh.

or maybe y'all are state owned too. maybe this is just fucken hilarious watching idiots pay for things twice. (and being taxed on both purchases)

[Oscar]

funny. and here i was thinking that being STATE OWNED enterprises and y'all being subjects of the state, that you mighta already owned em.
something to do with taxation and whatnot...
fool be me eh.

or maybe y'all are state owned too. maybe this is just fucken hilarious watching idiots pay for things twice. (and being taxed on both purchases)

NZ has run deficits for a majority of the time between 1960 and now.
We own fuck all.

[pete376403]

I haven't seen the Green Party comment but what you've reported they've said is not logical. It isn't money and any private company can give shares away if they like, and frequently do (usually to employees).

they're a crown-owned asset which the current government (who ever it may be) is not the owner, merely the custodian.

[Brian d marge]

NZ has run deficits for a majority of the time between 1960 and now.
We own fuck all.
yes but the game plan changed .

Stephen

[Brian d marge]

I'm with you - it isn't like we weren't warned, National made it a campaign issue from the start.

Personally, whereas I think strategic assets should be under Govt. control, I don't see why they have to hold 100% of the value. I’ll be queueing up to buy some shares.

A 400 % increase in the cost of electricity production ( Man on national radio said the other day , 17% for water and 400 for electricity ........)


Not sure if you can see the problem ..but,, how about Acc ,,,suddenly we were told the ACC was broke ,,,and the rego went up ..... it wasnt and didnt have to , ( national forewarned us about that !) ,,,ALL because of ideals ( yes , Treasury and a compliant government )

they will open them up to local investors then international IF the profits are there ,( in NZ usually too small ~ ) but one or two greedy locals will do well , Fletchers, Brierleys or who ever it was before

This New right Theory is a load of hogwash , and doesnt / hasn’t worked , just makes most people unhappy and a few rich ...

Honestly I dont care what you think , but by NOT DOING ANYTHING you are screwing it up for a lot of people , ( Higher prices , lack of services , Jobs!) and That aint right


Stephen

[Oscar]

they're a crown-owned asset which the current government (who ever it may be) is not the owner, merely the custodian.

Er.. the point of selling them is to put 49% in private hands.

[Oscar]

A 400 % increase in the cost of electricity production ( Man on national radio said the other day , 17% for water and 400 for electricity ........)


Not sure if you can see the problem ..but,, how about Acc ,,,suddenly we were told the ACC was broke ,,,and the rego went up ..... it wasnt and didnt have to , ( national forewarned us about that !) ,,,ALL because of ideals ( yes , Treasury and a compliant government )

they will open them up to local investors then international IF the profits are there ,( in NZ usually too small ~ ) but one or two greedy locals will do well , Fletchers, Brierleys or who ever it was before

This New right Theory is a load of hogwash , and doesnt / hasn’t worked , just makes most people unhappy and a few rich ...

Honestly I dont care what you think , but by NOT DOING ANYTHING you are screwing it up for a lot of people , ( Higher prices , lack of services , Jobs!) and That aint right


Stephen

I am doing something.
I'm going to buy as much of the shares that Govt. is offering as I can afford.
And I could care less what you think - particularly when everything you've written above is unsubstantiated, left wing rubbish.

Classic example - "electricity up 400%".
Sez who?
Over what period?
Why?
Do you believe everything you hear on National Radio?

[Oscar]

yes but the game plan changed .

Stephen

How?
We've never lived within our means, so what's changed?

[slowpoke]

I am doing something.
I'm going to buy as much of the shares that Govt. is offering as I can afford.



To join those Facebook shares?

Why would you buy shares in our assets? What makes them a good investment? Their growth prospects are poor (population based) which means the only way to increase revenue/value is to either reduce costs or increase prices. The former means that service and infrastructure will suffer and the latter means we're financially screwed. If you live in NZ there is absolutely no upside to this transaction........'course it's a lil' bit different if you're a foreign investor and don't give a shit about the general populace of NZ.

It is just incredibly short sighted to sell off profitable assets that over time will generate many times the $$$/benefits of any short term debt reduction.

If Don-Key is so sure of his mandate why doesn't he conduct a simple referendum that isn't clouded by the multitude of issues arising during a general election? Because he knows there is huge public resentment and he'd probably lose....yet he's pushing ahead. What a fine gentleman he is.....

It is a basic tenet of Government that you provide and secure essential services for the community, if they aren't up to the job they should never have contested the election.

[mashman]

Why would you buy shares in our assets?

Cheaper electricity :weird:

[Winston001]

Contact is a company created by the NZ government in 1996, owning various hydro dams (Clyde, Roxburgh etc). It was sold to the public at $3.15/share.

An electricity producing business. Hydro dams. A valuable part of the family silver. And a 100% sale too, not 49%.

So how has this chunk of family silver fared since then? Electricity generator, gotta be a killer investment, quasi-monopoly after all. Indeed at one stage Contact were getting ginormous spot prices overnight of $250/MW.

Hmmm.. . todays share price 16 years later is $4.78.

That is a 2.5%pa growth rate over 16 years. A dog. An absolute dog. In the same time money in the bank has grown at least 6%pa (interest rates used to be 9%+). If you'd held on to a classic bike, it would have gained more value.

Contact is a sound and clear guide to the fortunes of electricity companies. Yes we need the stuff but there is no guarantee the generators can produce it profitably. So selling 49% of Meridian etc might yet turn out to be very canny as their dams and plants age and crack. Nothing lasts forever.

[Brian d marge]

How?
We've never lived within our means, so what's changed?

Seriously ..just keep typing i couldnt provide evidence of a true idiot, than you yourself have provided, though each and every thread you have contributed to

some would assume you to be a troll , me ,.,,,I am sad , sad that my grand father was killed in Al alamien (sp) , my family home in east london was flattened ,,,,,we borrowed how much from the Americans ?

no if there is a " revolution " sorry but stupidity isnt an option,,,,, you have wasted your life ( well done ,,you hero )

Stephen

[Brian d marge]

I am doing something.
I'm going to buy as much of the shares that Govt. is offering as I can afford.
And I could care less what you think - particularly when everything you've written above is unsubstantiated, left wing rubbish.

Classic example - "electricity up 400%".
Sez who?
Over what period?
Why?
Do you believe everything you hear on National Radio?

you are an idiot

Just pay your Acc, water , oh and the wonderful telecom ,,,oh and hows about an education ,,,,,just pay it and dont complain

tx1138

Stephen

as for the 400 % it was a normal guy / group ..like u and I ,,who ACTUALLY monitored the changes ...no body really ,,,not like u or I who studied and ACTUALLY know ,,....

[Oscar]

you are an idiot

Just pay your Acc, water , oh and the wonderful telecom ,,,oh and hows about an education ,,,,,just pay it and dont complain

tx1138

Stephen

as for the 400 % it was a normal guy / group ..like u and I ,,who ACTUALLY monitored the changes ...no body really ,,,not like u or I who studied and ACTUALLY know ,,....

I would be an idiot if I accepted your childish rantings without proof.


You pull a figure like 400% out of your arse and expect everyone to agree with you?
Over what period?
Which provider?
Do you think that if the figure was true over any recent period, there might have been a wee bit of a backlash?

Oh, I forgot, you heard it on National Radio, so it must be true.
Back to your paddock, little sheep...

[Oscar]

Seriously ..just keep typing i couldnt provide evidence of a true idiot, than you yourself have provided, though each and every thread you have contributed to

some would assume you to be a troll , me ,.,,,I am sad , sad that my grand father was killed in Al alamien (sp) , my family home in east london was flattened ,,,,,we borrowed how much from the Americans ?

no if there is a " revolution " sorry but stupidity isnt an option,,,,, you have wasted your life ( well done ,,you hero )

Stephen

Seriously, do you actually read what you post?
Hint: I Heard It On The Radio + My Grandfather Died In The War does not equal Rational Argument

I was going to ask you to step away from the bong, but apparently the problem is deeper than that.

[Oscar]

To join those Facebook shares?

Why would you buy shares in our assets? What makes them a good investment? Their growth prospects are poor (population based) which means the only way to increase revenue/value is to either reduce costs or increase prices. The former means that service and infrastructure will suffer and the latter means we're financially screwed. If you live in NZ there is absolutely no upside to this transaction........'course it's a lil' bit different if you're a foreign investor and don't give a shit about the general populace of NZ.

It is just incredibly short sighted to sell off profitable assets that over time will generate many times the $$$/benefits of any short term debt reduction.

If Don-Key is so sure of his mandate why doesn't he conduct a simple referendum that isn't clouded by the multitude of issues arising during a general election? Because he knows there is huge public resentment and he'd probably lose....yet he's pushing ahead. What a fine gentleman he is.....

It is a basic tenet of Government that you provide and secure essential services for the community, if they aren't up to the job they should never have contested the election.

Facebook shares?
That's funny - like no one with an ounce of sense didn't see that coming.

As far as the election is concerned, the Nats made it a clear and prominent part of their policy platform.
Get over it.

[Brian d marge]

I would be an idiot if I accepted your childish rantings without proof.


You pull a figure like 400% out of your arse and expect everyone to agree with you?
Over what period?
Which provider?
Do you think that if the figure was true over any recent period, there might have been a wee bit of a backlash?

Oh, I forgot, you heard it on National Radio, so it must be true.
Back to your paddock, little sheep...
at least u are thick skinned ,( sorry for calling u an idiot , that was wrong ) but in ALL of my posts say the same thing AN the evidence bears me out ...

So back to the bong I go!

How many people have told u the same thing ? and you dogedly stick to ur guns ...well done on that !

Stephen

[puddytat]

here's the Key to it all.......:tugger:


http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=487089487

The Left Wing is our only hope & I dont mean Labour....the right ignore the people at thier peril. History shows that they will take only so much.
Free market capatalism got us into the mess, you cant honestly believe that following the same old Dogma is going to make any difference or solve all the problems it has created.Youre fucked in the head if you do.

[Winston001]

You pull a figure like 400% out of your arse and expect everyone to agree with you?


Oh, I forgot, you heard it on National Radio, so it must be true.


The 400% comes from a report by Molly Melhuish who is a commentator on electricity issues. I think it was discussed with Jim Mora earlier this week or maybe Catherine Ryan. Can't find a link.

Generally the discussions on Nat Rad are very high quality, TV7 being the only other place for informed comment and debate.

[Brian d marge]

I would be an idiot if I accepted your childish rantings without proof.


You pull a figure like 400% out of your arse and expect everyone to agree with you?
Over what period?
Which provider?
Do you think that if the figure was true over any recent period, there might have been a wee bit of a backlash?

Oh, I forgot, you heard it on National Radio, so it must be true.
Back to your paddock, little sheep...

Not one of my better posts , Sorry bout that ...In my defence , pissed and was watching a program about el aliemien ,,it reminded me of my family and the problems it caused and got a bit pissed of , because it just seemed such a waste ..and if you let NZ slip away for what ever the reason.

I must also make a small correction, it was my grand mother brothers who were killed not in aliemen further south ...and it was my mothers father who was in allemen and had a terrible time that caused all sorts of family problems years later .....

East london I dont need to explain .....

Sorry for the drunken post , but the main premises still stand , 400% from quite a reasonable source .....dont sell etc


Stephen

[Oscar]

The 400% comes from a report by Molly Melhuish who is a commentator on electricity issues. I think it was discussed with Jim Mora earlier this week or maybe Catherine Ryan. Can't find a link.

Generally the discussions on Nat Rad are very high quality, TV7 being the only other place for informed comment and debate.

I am in fact a Nat Radio fan (except for Kill Him).
However quoting a figure of 400% by "some guy" on Nat Radio is not adding to the collective wisdom, is it?

[Brian d marge]

I am in fact a Nat Radio fan (except for Kill Him).
However quoting a figure of 400% by "some guy" on Nat Radio is not adding to the collective wisdom, is it?

its slightly better than the evidence you have provided .

Stephen

[Oscar]

its slightly better than the evidence you have provided .

Stephen

Evidence for what?
I've never made any claims.
You're the one that peeled out the 400% figure, back it up.

[Brian d marge]

living beyond our means and your conviction that selling the assest will be a good thing

treasury is usually very good in NZ ..so why should we sell? are we creating an imaginary crisis?

here is a article written by Ms Molly

Stephen

[merv]

So the right wingers Govt sells the assets. The saving on the interest payments on the debt repayed is about equal to the lost dividends. Nothing gained at all but they've lost the asset forever. Typical :mad:

[Winston001]

.....it was my grand mother brothers who were killed not in aliemen further south ...and it was my mothers father who was in allemen and had a terrible time that caused all sorts of family problems years later .....


Possibly Alam el Halfa which Montgomery deliberately left open to draw Rommel's Axis forces in. New Zealanders took heavy losses there.

My father-in-law fought at El Alamein as did some of my dad's friends. All passed on now.

Lest we forget.

[Winston001]

So the right wingers Govt sells the assets. The saving on the interest payments on the debt repayed is about equal to the lost dividends. Nothing gained at all but they've lost the asset forever. Typical :mad:

Well YES. And while I generally support our current government, on this particular issue I think they are plain wrong. So far as I can work out, soverign borrowing is at 3.5% and the energy companies pay about 3%pa so it pretty much cancels out. Might as well take the loans rather than anger the general public.

[Brian d marge]

Possibly Alam el Halfa which Montgomery deliberately left open to draw Rommel's Axis forces in. New Zealanders took heavy losses there.

My father-in-law fought at El Alamein as did some of my dad's friends. All passed on now.

Lest we forget.

cant remember the name of his regiment , Black watch??black something or other ( he joined up in london i think ....my brother know more than me ...have pm ed him
He had some serious emotional problems ,,all through his life ...

Stephen

[Winston001]

Black Watch! The famous regiment of Scotland. Respect.

As for your grandfather's battles, I keep thinking Sidi Rezegh but that involved NZ elements of the 8th Army. The Black Watch were involved early on in 1941 when Rommel and his Axis army (German/Italian) pushed east from Tobruk. The Allies were forced back to regroup in Egypt and Palestine and were very worried.

About this time Major David Stirling got permission to form the Long Range Desert Group which founded the SAS.

The significance of El Alamein is that it represented a bottleneck for the Afrika Corp. Turn too far south and they were into the Qattara Depression, soft sand, cliffs, and swamp.

There is a Black Watch memorial in the Western Desert which means this was a significant battleground for the regiment. I can well understand how he would have been affected. Many men returning from the war never talked - couldn't talk about their experiences.

[Brian d marge]

I know its black something or other , something bad happened and he was sent to a hospital then off to italy ..Sorry I cant really remember , my brother wrote it all down...

as a of topic note , many years later he turned up , I went to visit him , he was as blind as a bat , couldnt see the vodka bottle top on the table , but the sod jumped on me motorbike and went for a spin up the road ..cb550.....brown horrible seat .....

Stephen


Black Watch! The famous regiment of Scotland. Respect.

As for your grandfather's battles, I keep thinking Sidi Rezegh but that involved NZ elements of the 8th Army. The Black Watch were involved early on in 1941 when Rommel and his Axis army (German/Italian) pushed east from Tobruk. The Allies were forced back to regroup in Egypt and Palestine and were very worried.

About this time Major David Stirling got permission to form the Long Range Desert Group which founded the SAS.

The significance of El Alamein is that it represented a bottleneck for the Afrika Corp. Turn too far south and they were into the Qattara Depression, soft sand, cliffs, and swamp.

There is a Black Watch memorial in the Western Desert which means this was a significant battleground for the regiment. I can well understand how he would have been affected. Many men returning from the war never talked - couldn't talk about their experiences.

[slowpoke]

Facebook shares?
That's funny - like no one with an ounce of sense didn't see that coming.

As far as the election is concerned, the Nats made it a clear and prominent part of their policy platform.
Get over it.

Yet for a bloke with at least an ounce of sense you still haven't said what makes buying shares in basically stagnant companies so attractive.

The election is meaningless when it comes to extrapolating public approval for individual policies. Theoretically every single voter in the country could vote for National because they like 99% of their policies, the other 1% being the Asset Sales policy. So 100% of the voters could support National and still be 100% against the Asset Sales policy.

[steve_t]

Contact is a company created by the NZ government in 1996, owning various hydro dams (Clyde, Roxburgh etc). It was sold to the public at $3.15/share.

An electricity producing business. Hydro dams. A valuable part of the family silver. And a 100% sale too, not 49%.

So how has this chunk of family silver fared since then? Electricity generator, gotta be a killer investment, quasi-monopoly after all. Indeed at one stage Contact were getting ginormous spot prices overnight of $250/MW.

Hmmm.. . todays share price 16 years later is $4.78.

That is a 2.5%pa growth rate over 16 years. A dog. An absolute dog. In the same time money in the bank has grown at least 6%pa (interest rates used to be 9%+). If you'd held on to a classic bike, it would have gained more value.

Contact is a sound and clear guide to the fortunes of electricity companies. Yes we need the stuff but there is no guarantee the generators can produce it profitably. So selling 49% of Meridian etc might yet turn out to be very canny as their dams and plants age and crack. Nothing lasts forever.

I don't suppose you have the figures for the ROI after you take into account all the dividends etc? No doubt it's still crappy but it'd be interesting. Ta

[Robert Taylor]

this shows the problem of not paying back the debt, and why we did not have debt back then,

we did not import anywhere near as much as we do now, we can go back to those days, but the other things like waiting lists for imported things likes cars and bikes come back as well, and since not many of us will put up with it since we have seen what the consumerism is getting us now,

Iceland was a little bit different as it was the banks debt, not public debt they did not pay back,

Very good points Scott, look at the revenue Government(s) are missing out on by not charging clearance fees and gst on EVERY item imported into this country. We are all hypocrites.

[Brian d marge]

Black Watch! The famous regiment of Scotland. Respect.

As for your grandfather's battles, I keep thinking Sidi Rezegh but that involved NZ elements of the 8th Army. The Black Watch were involved early on in 1941 when Rommel and his Axis army (German/Italian) pushed east from Tobruk. The Allies were forced back to regroup in Egypt and Palestine and were very worried.

About this time Major David Stirling got permission to form the Long Range Desert Group which founded the SAS.

The significance of El Alamein is that it represented a bottleneck for the Afrika Corp. Turn too far south and they were into the Qattara Depression, soft sand, cliffs, and swamp.

There is a Black Watch memorial in the Western Desert which means this was a significant battleground for the regiment. I can well understand how he would have been affected. Many men returning from the war never talked - couldn't talk about their experiences.

ok memory fart ,,,it was
2nd batalian royal sussex for first 3, 5th bat. Hampshires for last 2.

they went to ; Ireland, India, France (BEF), Africa, Italy.

For some reason I thought they were called Black something ...never mind

Stephen

[Winston001]

Thanks Stephen, looks like the initial guess was correct. The Royal Sussex were involved at Alam El Halfa. It was an important battle because the Allies won but with heavy losses.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Alam_Halfa

[Brian d marge]

It just gets better and betterer

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/7168634/Pay-hike-for-SOE-directors


Stephen

[puddytat]

And the prick has the nerve to have a go at the Greens spending money on a petition....One day I think people will look back on this Govt. policies with the same sense of disgust that we now look at Rogernomics.
Imagine what we're being signed up for in the Trans Pacific Partnership? We wont know for 4 years.:facepalm:
Your country & mine, is being sold out underneath us & our councils are being set up to be sued if foreign corporates dont like the decisions our Councils make & because of such, will be equally reluctant to oppose them.
Are we a test case for the Worlds first Corporarte State? More than enough resources & a complacent,disenfranchised, drug & alcohol fucked society.No wonder everyone wants a piece of the action. For what? A miniscule payrise that doesnt keep up with inflation. We are selling our country's soul bit by bit, stone by stone.

[avgas]

I wouldn't recommend asset sales.
I have only done it twice but once I got crabs :nya: and the other time I ended up in a bath full of ice :crazy:.

[avgas]

treasury is usually very good in NZ
WAS

Bollard is creating a Japanese economy lately. OCR hasn't moved much in years. Hence why its in the public interest to take on more debt.
Which is perpetual joke when you think about it.
OCR low due to debt
take on more debt due to low OCR
OCR lower due to more debt
take on more debt due to low OCR
OCR lower due to more debt
take on more debt due to low OCR..........

Meanwhile they are all telling us "SAVE, Save, the best thing is to save" which is true. But best to take away that tempting low interest debt rate first before people will listen to you. Hell even the govt is taking on more debt because the rate is low.

[SPman]

It just gets better and betterer

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/7168634/Pay-hike-for-SOE-directors


Stephen

Who benefits from privatisation? The government's privatisation bill will go through its first reading today. So who benefits from it?

Firstly, there's the rich, who will purchase the SOEs, redirecting the dividend stream (and any capital gains) from the public purse into their own private pockets (this category includes many MPs, including John Key).
Secondly, there's the financial industry, who will be paid $120 million by the government to sell us our own assets, and who will clip the ticket on every share sale into the bargain.

And thirdly, there's the SOE directors themselves, who stand to see their fees double simply because of the change in ownership structure. Those fees, of course, will be paid for by higher power prices paid by ordinary kiwis.

Note who doesn't benefit: ordinary kiwis. We'll be facing reduced public services due to the loss of the SOE dividend stream, while being charged higher prices to meet the new owners' rapacious demand for profits. And then, in a decade or so, when they've run it into the ground and asset stripped it, we'll have to buy it back.

Sounds like a shit deal to me.

[Flip]

I think that everybody who voted for National is to blame for asset sales not the goverment.

JK said during the election that a vote for National was a vote for asset sales. So suck it up middle class New Zealand, you asked for it!

[puddytat]

Ominously quiet from the right wing.......is that because they're wearing that smug "Im better than you grin" so in vogue at the moment?
Or is it that they're in that income bracket where it makes no difference whether they lose public services or can they afford to absorb the X ammount of continual price increases year on year? Im at a loss to explain the Maori parties position,& very dissapointed. Still it shows that its not only the White man who speaks with forked tongue.
Back Benches will be good this week....Hone,Metiria,Dunne, & some others....
Make the most of our last week of intelligent T.V....just think that it may become an infomercial channel.:facepalm:
They really know how to rub our noses in it.

[Flip]

I remember when the National goverment sold out my parents National Super to fund think big. I remember when the National goverment sold NZ Rail.

I will remember when the National goverment sells off the power companies. I will also remember when the National goverment sells off ACC.

I will remember and I will never vote for them or support them in any way.

[Brian d marge]

no worries they are going to stick it to the unemployed again for the next election...demonize the unemployed so that the barefaced robbery wont be noticed

Stephen

[mashman]

Ominously quiet from the right wing.......is that because they're wearing that smug "Im better than you grin" so in vogue at the moment?

They're off calling their circle of mates to find out how much they'll charge each other for monitoring each others portfolio additions so that they'll have more "losses" to write off against tax next year. As people keep pointing out the shares are mediocre at best... but they'll still pay more than dividends.

[Brian d marge]

well they are gone now ..thanks Mr dunne

IF they do perform and you electricity prices DO come down ...Im quite prepard to appologise ...but

In the mean time the first winter After they are sold to the americans ,,,prices will go up by 20 % thats my guess

Stephen


Well done . pat on the back all round ....nothing was well done

[G4L4XY]

I see they passed the bill today. I feel the need to post somewhere the stupidity of this.

They sell off the assets and get a few billion sure but then they spend that and it's gone and then they're only getting half the amount of income from them, I don't understand what they're thinking about this.
But meh I ride a Hyosung what do I know!

[Oscar]

They're off calling their circle of mates to find out how much they'll charge each other for monitoring each others portfolio additions so that they'll have more "losses" to write off against tax next year. As people keep pointing out the shares are mediocre at best... but they'll still pay more than dividends.

So exactly how do I write off my share portfolio losses against tax, oh wise one?

[mashman]

So exactly how do I write off my share portfolio losses against tax, oh wise one?

I said nothing about losses.

[puddytat]

Im at a loss to explain the Maori parties position,& very dissapointed. Still it shows that its not only the White man who speaks with forked tongue.
.

I retract that & apologise.....

[blue rider]

:innocent:

[Oscar]

I said nothing about losses.

Really?

So you didn't say:


...they'll charge each other for monitoring each others portfolio additions so that they'll have more "losses" to write off against tax next year.

[mashman]

Really?

So you didn't say:

my bad... I was referring to the costs of monitoring the portfolio, not the shares themselves

[Oscar]

my bad... I was referring to the costs of monitoring the portfolio, not the shares themselves

And how do I write that off against tax, O wise one?

[mashman]

And how do I write that off against tax, O wise one?

pay a visit to the IRD site and find out.

[Oscar]

pay a visit to the IRD site and find out.

I don't need to when you are playing the expert here.

Assuming that you can write off the expenses, I'll couch the question another way:

What happens if I write my portfolio costs off against tax, O wise one?

[mashman]

I don't need to when you are playing the expert here.

Assuming that you can write off the expenses, I'll couch the question another way:

What happens if I write my portfolio costs off against tax, O wise one?

:rofl:... as per usual, that's entirely your choice.

You declare/pay less tax.

[Oscar]

:rofl:... as per usual, that's entirely your choice.

You declare/pay less tax.

It goes to the fact that, yet again, you have little or no idea about the subject at hand.
If you deduct expenses or losses incurred in your share portfolio, you'd make any gains taxable.

So the people you describe are likely to pay more tax, not less.

[mashman]

It goes to the fact that, yet again, you have little or no idea about the subject at hand.
If you deduct expenses or losses incurred in your share portfolio, you'd make any gains taxable.

So the people you describe are likely to pay more tax, not less.

:facepalm:... so you didn't read what I wrote, not sure why I should be surprised. Typical right winger

[Oscar]

:facepalm:... so you didn't read what I wrote, not sure why I should be surprised. Typical right winger

You wrote this:


They're off calling their circle of mates to find out how much they'll charge each other for monitoring each others portfolio additions so that they'll have more "losses" to write off against tax next year.

If your inference is that this is bad - it exposes your lack of knowledge on the subject.
If your inference is that this is good - it exposes your lack of knowledge on the subject.
Conclusion - you have no idea.

[mashman]

Your inference that this is bad exposes your lack of knowledge.

I'm sure it doesn't happen.

[Oscar]

I'm sure it doesn't happen.

So what was your point?

[mashman]

So what was your point?

Guess..... I mean guess some more

[Oscar]

Guess..... I mean guess some more

My conclusion is that you have no idea what you're talking about (again).

[mashman]

My conclusion is that you have no idea what you're talking about (again).

I expect that from those with a limited imagination and a right wing bent... however that is your prerogative.

[Oscar]

I expect that from those with a limited imagination and a right wing bent... however that is your prerogative.

The fact that I actually know something about Income Tax as it pertains to Share Trading doesn't make me right wing or have a limited imagination, it just makes me better informed than you.

Why don't you just admit that you had no idea what you were talking about?

[mashman]

The fact that I actually know something about Income Tax as it pertains to Share Trading doesn't make me right wing or have a limited imagination, it just makes me better informed than you.

Why don't you just admit that you had no idea what you were talking about?

Cool. I have no doubt that you are better informed than me on a wide variety of subjects. In which case, are portfolio management fees deductible?

[Winston001]

In which case, are portfolio management fees deductible?

Only if you are a share trader and in that case any profits are taxed. Very few share buyers are traders. Its not for the fainthearted. Most people buy shares and put them aside hoping they will grow in value - sort of like a term deposit.

[mashman]

Only if you are a share trader and in that case any profits are taxed. Very few share buyers are traders. Its not for the fainthearted. Most people buy shares and put them aside hoping they will grow in value - sort of like a term deposit.

That seems to be at odds with something Thomas Pippos was quoted as saying: "For mum and dad shareholders who hold only New Zealand or Grey List shares, the following are generally not deductible, says Pippos: brokerage, the purchase price of the shares, and "costs incurred in establishing a portfolio," including getting initial advice. However, the costs of monitoring the portfolio are deductible."

[mashman]

Meanwhile back on topic :innocent:

High level of ignorance over asset sales - Key (http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/14040342/high-level-of-ignorance-over-asset-sales-key/)... Does that mean Key was taking advantage of people? What a fuckin cunt... just like Jimmy Carr

[puddytat]

Meanwhile back on topic :innocent:

High level of ignorance over asset sales - Key (http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/14040342/high-level-of-ignorance-over-asset-sales-key/)... Does that mean Key was taking advantage of people? What a fuckin cunt... just like Jimmy Carr

You sure its not what he really thinks about those who oppose it....ignorant serfs:motu:

[Oscar]

Meanwhile back on topic :innocent:

High level of ignorance over asset sales - Key (http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/14040342/high-level-of-ignorance-over-asset-sales-key/)... Does that mean Key was taking advantage of people? What a fuckin cunt... just like Jimmy Carr

What about ignorance over tax issues?

[Oscar]

That seems to be at odds with something Thomas Pippos was quoted as saying: "For mum and dad shareholders who hold only New Zealand or Grey List shares, the following are generally not deductible, says Pippos: brokerage, the purchase price of the shares, and "costs incurred in establishing a portfolio," including getting initial advice. However, the costs of monitoring the portfolio are deductible."

Jeez:facepalm:
That's the whole point - only an idjut deducts expenses, coz it makes their whole portfolio subject to tax.
Your stupid post earlier would have "them" paying more tax, not less.

[gsxr]

Umm off topic on topic I dunno


"This legislation is an innovative way to raise much-needed capital and at the same time gives New Zealanders a chance to invest in their own futures."

Dont WE the current taxpayers and long passsed away taxpayers already OWN these assets ???.
If so on the sale of them the funds should be distributed proportionately.
How does the double dipping work to enable current owners to buy shares in something that they currently OWN.

[mashman]

What about ignorance over tax issues?

I don't do it for a job or indeed a hobby... the fucktard in the blue suit does.


Jeez:facepalm:
That's the whole point - only an idjut deducts expenses, coz it makes their whole portfolio subject to tax.
Your stupid post earlier would have "them" paying more tax, not less.

Can you point me to a source for that please?

[Brian d marge]

Umm off topic on topic I dunno


"This legislation is an innovative way to raise much-needed capital and at the same time gives New Zealanders a chance to invest in their own futures."

Dont WE the current taxpayers and long passsed away taxpayers already OWN these assets ???.
If so on the sale of them the funds should be distributed proportionately.
How does the double dipping work to enable current owners to buy shares in something that they currently OWN.

well you are going to find out now ....

Stephen

[Brian d marge]

and it just keeps getting betterer and bettterer

yeahhhhaaaaa


Snip;

Former World Bank managing director Graeme Wheeler is to be the new Reserve Bank Governor, taking over after Alan Bollard's second five-year term expires on September 25, Finance Minister Bill English said today.
"We expect the first official cash rate hike in March 2013, once the new governor has settled in," Westpac chief economist Dominick Stephens said.
Wheeler's selection as an outsider was a "notable move" and could point to an agenda for more substantive changes at the Reserve Bank.


Stephen

[Oscar]

and it just keeps getting betterer and bettterer

yeahhhhaaaaa


Snip;

Former World Bank managing director Graeme Wheeler is to be the new Reserve Bank Governor, taking over after Alan Bollard's second five-year term expires on September 25, Finance Minister Bill English said today.
"We expect the first official cash rate hike in March 2013, once the new governor has settled in," Westpac chief economist Dominick Stephens said.
Wheeler's selection as an outsider was a "notable move" and could point to an agenda for more substantive changes at the Reserve Bank.


Stephen

Old news.
Bollard has been signalling an increase in the OCR for quite some time.
Wheeler was appointed ages ago.

[Oscar]

Can you point me to a source for that please?


Surely you jest?

You brought the subject up, and when I asked you to clarify your statement, you said:

pay a visit to the IRD site and find out.

Why don't you just admit that you have no clue about share trading and the tax issues therein, and that your pathetic attempt to be clever has backfired.

[avgas]

Bollard has been signalling an increase in the OCR for quite some time.
Like and old man tentatively dipping his toe in the ocean saying he is going to swim a mile.

[oneofsix]

Bollard has been signalling an increase in the OCR for quite some time.


I thought that was just a ruse to get the plebs to fix early so the Aussie banks could make even more profits and that is what it has proved to be for over a year.

[Delerium]

I remember when the National goverment sold out my parents National Super to fund think big. I remember when the National goverment sold NZ Rail.

I will remember when the National goverment sells off the power companies. I will also remember when the National goverment sells off ACC.

I will remember and I will never vote for them or support them in any way.

Never mind the many more assets that labour has sold off :brick:

[Brian d marge]

Never mind the many more assets that labour has sold off :brick:

thats right ,,sooo one is starting to think that there is SOMEONE ELSE pulling the strings , and now hes bum is Officially in the hot seat ...

Stephen

[Oscar]

I thought that was just a ruse to get the plebs to fix early so the Aussie banks could make even more profits and that is what it has proved to be for over a year.

Without the Aussie Govt. guarantee of Aussie Banks we would be far deeper in the shit than we are.

[mashman]

Surely you jest?

Not at all, you're the expert.

[Winston001]

I thought that was just a ruse to get the plebs to fix early so the Aussie banks could make even more profits and that is what it has proved to be for over a year.

That theory only works if Alan Bollard is being paid by Australian banks to deliberately and corruptly mislead New Zealand borrowers. Given our laws on defamation...is that really what you are saying?

[SPman]

Perhaps they're trying to do this
<iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/3IRUBJ8qraY" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="420"></iframe>

[avgas]

Without the Aussie Govt. guarantee of Aussie Banks we would be far deeper in the shit than we are.
What he said.
Also we seem to get a better deal that what the Aussies get.......from their own banks. I don't know why - but it blew my mind when I moved to Aussie to get ripped off by the same bank more than I was in NZ.