Maori "Get Off Their Arse"

[wharekura]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/waikato-times/news/7062718/Petition-launched-against-Maori-seats-on-council

Line up and please, no pushing in

[winston]

Shes jus a racist cow, we should have maori seats they were the tangatawhenua and they should be ont he council and they need help as they dont have jobs and arent very bright.

[Asher]

Maori should be on the council but they should also get there on their own merits and not have a seat saved for them.

[Tigadee]

If a quarter of the population were Maori, then they can easily elect in two council members...

[scumdog]

Maori should be on the council but they should also get there on their own merits and not have a seat saved for them.


True.

It should be: 'The best person for the job'.

Race and/or gender shouldn't come into it.

[SMOKEU]

Why do I get the feeling that this thread is going to end up in PD?

[scumdog]

Why do I get the feeling that this thread is going to end up in PD?

'Cos you're now on it??:rolleyes:

[wtf?]

Whats so special about tangata whenua?

I am of the land. I was born there. Just as much as the next bloke. Rights and privileges based on race is a very slippery slope. The sooner we get rid rid of race based policy and pandering to the noisy ones the better off everyone will be. Including the Maoris.

[awa355]

Shes jus a racist cow, we should have maori seats they were the tangatawhenua and they should be ont he council and they need help as they dont have jobs and arent very bright.


The OP'r is a Maori and a fairly decent person. I know plenty of scumbags and no hopers.

Dumb and lazy, doesn't come in any particular shade of skin. . And yes I do think any position as a representation should be won on merit.

[wharekura]

Whats so special about tangata whenua?

I am of the land. I was born there. Just as much as the next bloke. Rights and privileges based on race is a very slippery slope. The sooner we get rid rid of race based policy and pandering to the noisy ones the better off everyone will be. Including the Maoris.
ahhh, now that was the response i was waiting for - u fellas at the top of the thread are too liberal for my liking.


The problem will not change. The solution will not change either. All fucking niggers must fucking hang. No man, no problem.
Now this is someone that does not hold back!

[Asher]

Whats so special about tangata whenua?

I am of the land. I was born there. Just as much as the next bloke. Rights and privileges based on race is a very slippery slope. The sooner we get rid rid of race based policy and pandering to the noisy ones the better off everyone will be. Including the Maoris.

I think we still owe the Maori a huge amount, the way the were treated in the not so distant past was terrible.
We owe them support and need to help them integrate themselves into a system that we forced on them, but has the time come when they need to take the responsibility onto themselves and stand on their own feet? debatable.

[HenryDorsetCase]

If a quarter of the population were Maori, then they can easily elect in two council members...

Um, its a local authority, so the qualification for franchise is property ownership.

As it should be in a general election.

In fact in my view you should get 1 vote for every $1 of equity you have in your property (so someone freehold in a $450000 house gets more say than someone 99% geared in a $5M house)

[HenryDorsetCase]

I think we still owe the Maori a huge amount, the way the were treated in the not so distant past was terrible.
We owe them support and need to help them integrate themselves into a system that we forced on them, but has the time come when they need to take the responsibility onto themselves and stand on their own feet? debatable.

"We" are.

but racism has no place in a body whose function is to provide roads and streetlights and take away the rubbish

[wtf?]

Fair comment Asher. I don't deny the history. Modern society owes no one anything other than an equal chance to participate. Anything else is a cop out.

Trouble is, the system only gives out fish. Lots of it, and far too many (not all) are only too happy to sit there and take the fish. Not a long term solution. The system should be giving out fishing rods and pointing them in the direction to go stand on the shore along side everyone else.

[duckonin]

I think we still owe the Maori a huge amount, the way the were treated in the not so distant past was terrible.
We owe them support and need to help them integrate themselves into a system that we forced on them, but has the time come when they need to take the responsibility onto themselves and stand on their own feet? debatable.

We owe Maori nothing at all period ! Maori do not exist. Good god man read what you have written. Support,intergrate, 'that 'we' forced on them'. Get a grip, most have way more white blood than the blood they claim owes them an existence. Those that live today grew up and were educated in the same class rooms as ourselves.

Thoughts from those like you, keep the kettle boiling in the favor of those with half a brain,just so they can make another and another claim for their own advantage.

[Headbanger]

The system has given out education, medical care, aged care, clothing, food, jobs, houses, fish n chips, Free money, raised their standard of living out of the dirt.

[SMOKEU]

The system has given out education, medical care, aged care, clothing, food, jobs, houses, fish n chips, Free money, raised their standard of living out of the dirt.

Yet "they" still want more.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Where's that damn popcorn thing when you need it. this thread has potential

[wharekura]

Maori do not exist....those with half a brain...And how the heck do you come up with that fact? My father (God bless him) and his siblings are Maori with no mixed blood (that I know of) based on the lineage traced back to the first landings. My generation may have mixed blood and my children definitely do (I'm married to a wonderful Christchurch proud Irish heritage women).

Now debates are good, but when crap is spread about how there are no more "Maoris" is annoying. In some part it maybe wishful thinking or a way to justify the subsequent statements.

[wtf?]

And how the heck do you come up with that fact? My father (God bless him) and his siblings are Maori with no mixed blood (that I know of) based on the lineage traced back to the first landings. My generation may have mixed blood and my children definitely do (I'm married to a wonderful Christchurch proud Irish heritage women).

Now debates are good, but when crap is spread about how there are no more "Maoris" is annoying. In some part it maybe wishful thinking or a way to justify the subsequent statements.

I think his point is why should someone with only 1/16th maori blood get any different treatment to someone with none? An argument that by definition will only get stronger and more relevant over time.

[5150]

What happened to equal privlages for all. In my personal experience and observation of the ways of this country, the biggest racists are the Maoris. They expect privlages above all other races yet most of them are not prepared to put in the hard work to achieve that them selves. They expect everything to be given to them on a plate. Education, healthcare, Maori seats in councills and government. What about the other races? Do they get the same privelages like seats etc? Nope. Everyone works hard to achieve their goal. If they want to be lazy ass then fine, I have nothing against that, but don't expect everything be given to you while others work their asses off.

[Asher]

We owe Maori nothing at all period ! Maori do not exist. Good god man read what you have written. Support,intergrate, 'that 'we' forced on them'. Get a grip, most have way more white blood than the blood they claim owes them an existence. Those that live today grew up and were educated in the same class rooms as ourselves.

Thoughts from those like you, keep the kettle boiling in the favor of those with half a brain,just so they can make another and another claim for their own advantage.

I will make myself more clear.
By "we" i mean everyone in this country who lives on or enjoys the land forcibly removed from another.
By "them" i dont mean anyone with dark skin i mean Maori heritage, culture, iwi's, marae's. I dont believe anyone claiming to be 1/16th Maori should be anymore entitled to a hand out than anyone else, but we should be doing all we can to celebrate and encourage Maori culture.

[5150]

By the way, I am not racist. I do believe that Maoris and Maori culture needs to be recognised and their history be preserved as part of this countrys history. but this is where it should end. Their rights and privelages should be equal to every other race living in this country, not below but not above either. Equal opportunity for all I say. The sooner we all recognise this and move on, the stronger this country and it's economy will become

[wtf?]

but we should be doing all we can to celebrate and encourage Maori culture.

You can mate, by all means get right in to it. Nothing wrong with that.

But the rest of us shouldn't have it forced on us, nor should we have to pay for it.

[Asher]

You can mate, by all means get right in to it. Nothing wrong with that.

But the rest of us shouldn't have it forced on us, nor should we have to pay for it.

Well then i suggest you move to a country that has no culture or history.... oh wait....

[HenryDorsetCase]

one of the things that amused me greatly a couple of years ago was a guy I worked with who is blonde haired and blue eyed, married to a redhead (ooh errr). He was busily enrolling his kids in the Ngai Tahu superannuation scheme, getting them registered or whatever because they were 1/64th Maori. How I laughed: but from their perspective = profit!

[Headbanger]

but we should be doing all we can to celebrate and encourage Maori culture.

When you say "we" I assume you are referring to maori?

Because I sure as fuck have no obligation to give a damn about the stone age practices of a cannibalistic primitive group of people.

But hey, if they want to do so (with their money) then its none of my business.

Though it is bizarre how much of what is celebrated as Maori culture seems to be what they wish it to be rather then what is was.

[SMOKEU]

There was a documentary on Maori life made a few years ago, I think they called it "Once were warriors".

[Nova.]

Whitez are almighty. :headbang:

[merv]

Now there aren't many white folk in Northland are there so it seems Maori are getting off their arses (as per the header of this thread) and getting jobs in Australia and bringing the money home.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10811563

http://www.northernadvocate.co.nz/news/aussie-jobs-a-win-win-for-all/1405720/

When I last flew from Auckland to Perth a few weeks back many of my fellow travellers were doing exactly this - flying to their jobs in the Pilbara. Talking at the airport and on the plane they were all upbeat and positive and many had been doing the fly in fly out (FIFO) for quite some time.

Good on them I say and I doubt those Maori give a rat about Council seats.

[unstuck]

If someone has a desire to be on the council, they should stand and be elected. Fuck the racist bullshit.

[bogan]

You can mate, by all means get right in to it. Nothing wrong with that.

But the rest of us shouldn't have it forced on us, nor should we have to pay for it.

I'd go one step further, and say they are at least partially exclusive. Its harder to celebrate a culture when you are forced to fund it.

The whole MMP system is set up so minorities can have representation is it not? So why do we need special seats for minority representation as well?

[JimO]

I think we still owe the Maori a huge amount, the way the were treated in the not so distant past was terrible.
We owe them support and need to help them integrate themselves into a system that we forced on them, but has the time come when they need to take the responsibility onto themselves and stand on their own feet? debatable.
How long do they need??? another 200 years?? what maori have had forced on them is no different to what they forced on the tribe in the next valley back in the dark ages

[300weatherby]

Define "culture"

A little over 6 generations ago, moari were genicidal slave trading cannabals who routinely practiced infanticide. We bought them education and christian teaching. Evolution moves slowly for some. A man should only have what he makes for himself, in life or business- He should not hide behind the sham excuse of "greivance" and "entitlement". In a genuine democracy no one should have power or influence in local council or central government based on colour or ethnic backround.

If any people have any right to genuine greivance, look to the Scots and the Irish and what the English inflicted on them, over centuries. Do the research and you will be astonished..... The moari were absolutley lucky at the hands of the English when they began creating New Zealand. moari in this country are over represented in ever facet of society, including, notably, in our prisons, it is time social and political correctness stopped, but that genie will prove difficult to put back in the bottle.

Just wait untill the ever increasing asian population manage to use the stupd MMP system to gain political control of NZ, in Auckland they already outnumber the moari and Pacific Island population combined......Then they can complain as all the gravy train rights dissapear. Remember Tienamin Square.

One rule for all regardless of race, gender, or religious belief.Look up the word "equality" in the dictionary.

[mashman]

Trouble is, the system only gives out fish. Lots of it, and far too many (not all) are only too happy to sit there and take the fish. Not a long term solution. The system should be giving out fishing rods and pointing them in the direction to go stand on the shore along side everyone else.

aaaaaaand once the fishing rods have been handed out, who decides where you get to fish? or should I say what give you quality fishing? To start with how much bait can a person afford and how much of that bait is nibbled away by bottom feeders not taking the whole bait? You'll also have to pay for your licence so that you can get a good spot and as we know good spots ain't cheap. Some people get given a tuna to kick off their fishing career and some get a minnow. So you've got a group of people with a tuna, hogging the best fishing spots and most people with a minnow and nothing but crabs nibbling at their bait. A few people have mentioned equality, how does that stack up? Have a look inside their catch buckets and what do you see? It all sounds a bit fishy to me irrespective of how you fillet. What about the white lazy arses?

[Nova.]

I stand watch my country, going down the drain We are all at fault, we are all to blame We're letting them takeover, we just let 'em come Once we had an Empire, and now we've got a slum

White Power! For NZ White Power! Today White Power! for NZ Before it gets too late

[sugilite]

White power all the way for good spulling and dick-tion! Give that other lot the learn eh!

[Nova.]

White power all the way for good spulling and dick-tion! Give that other lot the learn eh!

:tugger: :lol:

[sugilite]

:tugger: :lol:
Churrr bro, you put it so much better than me, and with actions, sure your not part Maori?

[wtf?]

Mashman, it was a very simple analogy. Nothing more, nothing less. Not sure how you managed to read all those questions in to it?

300weatherby makes the most eloquent intelligent post here. Well done.

[unstuck]

300weatherby makes the most eloquent intelligent post here. Well done.

Agreed.:niceone:

[mashman]

Mashman, it was a very simple analogy. Nothing more, nothing less. Not sure how you managed to read all those questions in to it?

Is it really that simple? I merely expanded upon your analogy in a real world manner I thought. You still need to get the bait, you still need a good fishing spot and if everyone is a fisherman, how will you stop the bloodshed if not by regulating the fishing? Having a rod is not enough... did you add a hook, like and sinker? Or is that what your analogy was demonstrating :shifty:

[Headbanger]

300weatherby makes the most eloquent intelligent post here. Well done.

I'm planning on posting it on other forums and claiming it as my own.

In fact I might re-post it in this very thread sometime next week and see if I can pass it off as my own.

I'll just drop in a couple "fuck offs" and a reference to steak and cheese pies.....

[mashman]

Define "culture"

A little over 6 generations ago, moari were genicidal slave trading cannabals who routinely practiced infanticide. We bought them education and christian teaching. Evolution moves slowly for some. A man should only have what he makes for himself, in life or business- He should not hide behind the sham excuse of "greivance" and "entitlement". In a genuine democracy no one should have power or influence in local council or central government based on colour or ethnic backround.

One rule for all regardless of race, gender, or religious belief.Look up the word "equality" in the dictionary.

Does what a man makes for himself take into account what others have done for him in order to allow that man to make what he has for himself? I don't believe that that is the case amongst anyone, let alone Maori. Sorry for muddying the waters with real world application of how your utopia works. I suppose the loss of your governance and way of life is a fair trade for the values of a superior culture. On that basis if the Chinese invade, because these days economy and price are the measures of a civilisations superiority, and as they have a better economy and cheaper technology than we do you'll be happy to go along with it?

[duckonin]

I will make myself more clear.
By "we" i mean everyone in this country who lives on or enjoys the land forcibly removed from another.
By "them" i dont mean anyone with dark skin i mean Maori heritage, culture, iwi's, marae's. I dont believe anyone claiming to be 1/16th Maori should be anymore entitled to a hand out than anyone else, but we should be doing all we can to celebrate and encourage Maori culture.

:rolleyes: the only thing about Maori culture is collecting the benefit. Not one thing have they 'achieved' "fot, sorry, whot was dat u say". Most of mixed blood would rather not go down the way of the racists. These persons would rather work and fit in with society. The reason is that the 'blood sucker' who sucks only does it for himself not for others. iwis just another name for con-artists. Marae's ,just another corrupt place to discuss who you stole your last TV from. So why would you want to encourage this so call bull shit culture that is getting worse as more and more half Black white boys shunt their dicks into Dumb white girls to create more problems for future generations?:msn-wink:

[Ocean1]

Does what a man makes for himself take into account what others have done for him in order to allow that man to make what he has for himself?

Newsflash: What real men make for themselves doesn't require help, they stand or fall alone.

Hint: If you can't point to product of your own making that's greater than that of any "help" you had then you don't qualify.

[wtf?]

mashman, my point really is that simple. Clearly you are not familiar with the ANALOGY I bastardised. "Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach him to fish..." Google it. And the meaning of analogy.

The system we have hands out fish. It does little to teach people to provide for themselves. THAT was my point. Not to set out to argue every fucking nuance of NZs fisheries that you choose to bring up.

[tri boy]

The best grader drivers on the council were bro's.
Had the meanist feeds at smoko time.

[mashman]

Newsflash: What real men make for themselves doesn't require help, they stand or fall alone.

Hint: If you can't point to product of your own making that's greater than that of any "help" you had then you don't qualify.

Do those who make products manufacture every single component themselves? That rules out 99.99999999999% of the so called self made men then?

[mashman]

mashman, my point really is that simple. Clearly you are not familiar with the ANALOGY I bastardised. "Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach him to fish..." Google it. And the meaning of analogy.

The system we have hands out fish. It does little to teach people to provide for themselves. THAT was my point. Not to set out to argue every fucking nuance of NZs fisheries that you choose to bring up.

I am familiar with it and knowing that people will accept that things are that simple given the world we live in and the shit that takes place in that world under the guise of such analogy being true without any shades of grey, is highly amusing. As I said, you need the bait, you need the fishing location and when you're "fighting" for position amongst 2 million+ providers it puts it into perspective for some :girlfight: sometimes the nuance matters, sometimes it's ignored entirely :facepalm:

[speights_bud]

I see people are bitching about everyone leaving for 'better jobs in oz', from all fields of work primary, secondary and tertiary.

People are also bitching about how 'there's no jobs here for us so we are on the dole'. Considering the amount of people living in south Auckland for example that immigrated here from other countries, why the fuck didn't they immigrate to where all the jobs are?? Probably because its too easy to sit on their arse here.

Maybe to help fix our situation we should send the unemployed to Aussie where the jobs are. As i understand it (correct me if I'm wrong) no Aussie citizenship = No Dole = Actually having to work for food?

There are a lot of Kiwi's making a good name for themselves over there doing all kinds of work, the Maori Boys have a good rep for being choice at scaffolding up Perth ways I'm told.

[superman]

The Treaty of Waitingi states they have a right to sovereignty as did the Declaration of Independence, and if we won't give them sovereignty then the least we can do is give them some guaranteed seats on the council and try to establish some sort of equal power.

Damn white supremacists on here who think there was some inherent right to colonisation are simply products of colonisation myths. That we somehow helped Maori by colonising, that we had an inherent/divine right to colonise due simply to technological or supposed moral advancement. That we were being benevolent by even giving them the option of a Treaty when we had a supposed right to simply exterminate them.

The amount of inherent racism still apparent when Maori should really be the governing body of this land is mind boggling.

[mashman]

I see people are bitching about everyone leaving for 'better jobs in oz', from all fields of work primary, secondary and tertiary.

People are also bitching about how 'there's no jobs here for us so we are on the dole'. Considering the amount of people living in south Auckland for example that immigrated here from other countries, why the fuck didn't they immigrate to where all the jobs are?? Probably because its too easy to sit on their arse here.

Maybe to help fix our situation we should send the unemployed to Aussie where the jobs are. As i understand it (correct me if I'm wrong) no Aussie citizenship = No Dole = Actually having to work for food?

There are a lot of Kiwi's making a good name for themselves over there doing all kinds of work, the Maori Boys have a good rep for being choice at scaffolding up Perth ways I'm told.

So you want full employment for the people of NZ? do you know the consequences of such a policy? If not, google is your friend... but I'm sure you'll be willing to pay $50 for a loaf or $3000 for a set of tyres.

[speights_bud]

So you want full employment for the people of NZ? do you know the consequences of such a policy? If not, google is your friend... but I'm sure you'll be willing to pay $50 for a loaf or $3000 for a set of tyres.

I guess all I'm suggesting is instead of leeching off the system why not move to where you can be financially productive to society?

[mashman]

I guess all I'm suggesting is instead of leeching off the system why not move to where you can be financially productive to society?

Fair enough, but maybe they're happy? All I'm suggesting is that that has consequences. If the bottom line is the economic benefit to the country and that economic benefit is keeping inflation down by having a percentage of the population unemployed, then no amount of bene bashing, or lazy bastard bashing, or leech bashing is going to help the economic "fact" that a percentage of your population NEED to be unemployed. It might be nice of we all took turns, but very few of us can afford it. To a large extent I agree with you, but it's not as easy as getting a job, especially when it's not in the country's best interest. These "facts" are relatively new to me, but they seem to be confirmed by economists across the globe, so I have no reason to doubt them. To that end I've gone from bene basher to oh fuck, perhaps they should be paid more and given a medal fr services unrecognised :blink:

[superman]

I guess all I'm suggesting is instead of leeching off the system why not move to where you can be financially productive to society?

Why should someone be 'financially productive' to society, and why is this a goal to achieve?

Why not humanitarianly productive? Why should economics and capitalism dictate the 'appropriate behaviours' within a society?

I would say CEO's of many companies are very financially productive, but they in no way improve society. They simply capitalise upon a power/money position they hold. Should those who receive jobs or money from that company should be eternally grateful?

Not to mention all the top earners and their advanced tax avoidance techniques which would take far more money away from our government than the 'leachers' you talk about.

[mashman]

Why should someone be 'financially productive' to society, and why is this a goal to achieve?

Why not humanitarianly productive? Why should economics and capitalism dictate the 'appropriate behaviours' within a society?

I would say CEO's of many companies are very financially productive, but they in no way improve society. They simply capitalise upon a power/money position they hold. Should those who receive jobs or money from that company should be eternally grateful?

Not to mention all the top earners and their advanced tax avoidance techniques which would take far more money away from our government than the 'leachers' you talk about.

another can't bling again situation... WTF is going on here :clap: apparently you can't trade on human decency because we're all greedy :blink:. One of the things I've found (limited exposure) about polynesian/maori culture is that some, maybe the majority, dunno, have an affinity with the land that is not a case of owning it, but belonging to it. I'm sure there will be cries of hypocrisy there, but I can also see why they would want to own the land to protect it from whitey white and his smokeu drones. No doubt naive in some cases, but I'll take my chances given what whitey has shown me of his character thus far.

I wasn't born in the wrong era, I was born the wrong colour :cool:... at least I'd be allowed to have a valid grievance then :shifty:

[superman]

another can't bling again situation... WTF is going on here :clap: apparently you can't trade on human decency because we're all greedy :blink:. One of the things I've found (limited exposure) about polynesian/maori culture is that some, maybe the majority, dunno, have an affinity with the land that is not a case of owning it, but belonging to it. I'm sure there will be cries of hypocrisy there, but I can also see why they would want to own the land to protect it from whitey white and his smokeu drones. No doubt naive in some cases, but I'll take my chances given what whitey has shown me of his character thus far.

I wasn't born in the wrong era, I was born the wrong colour :cool:... at least I'd be allowed to have a valid grievance then :shifty:

Maori culture certainly pertains to belonging to the land rather than owning land (at least before and at the time of colonisation). Being born of the land, and going back to the land gave a sort of ancestral ownership to it, and for outsiders to become part of the land they'd have to marry into the tribe.

When whiteys came they brought along their Eurocentric viewpoints of small plots of 'owned land' which would have been a concept completely out of touch with Maori. Studies on 'bought land' show Maori thought that the land was merely being leased, as underlying ancestral ownership cannot be revoked. This view was reaffirmed to them by the Treaty which gave 'absolute chieftainship or independence over lands, villages and all things treasured'.

Land, law and authority were treated as one within Maori culture at the time of colonisation.

[scumdog]

When whiteys came they brought along their Eurocentric viewpoints of small plots of 'owned land' which would have been a concept completely out of touch with Maori. Studies on 'bought land' show Maori thought that the land was merely being leased, as underlying ancestral ownership cannot be revoked. This view was reaffirmed to them by the Treaty which gave 'absolute chieftainship or independence over lands, villages and all things treasured'.

Land, law and authority were treated as one within Maori culture at the time of colonisation.

On the other hand we have the situation down here where land returned to Ngai Tahu a short time ago has just been sold by them. (to a 'whitey'... )

[BoristheBiter]

Maori culture certainly pertains to belonging to the land rather than owning land (at least before and at the time of colonisation). Being born of the land, and going back to the land gave a sort of ancestral ownership to it, and for outsiders to become part of the land they'd have to marry into the tribe.

When whiteys came they brought along their Eurocentric viewpoints of small plots of 'owned land' which would have been a concept completely out of touch with Maori. Studies on 'bought land' show Maori thought that the land was merely being leased, as underlying ancestral ownership cannot be revoked. This view was reaffirmed to them by the Treaty which gave 'absolute chieftainship or independence over lands, villages and all things treasured'.

Land, law and authority were treated as one within Maori culture at the time of colonisation.

What a pile of PC, soft cock, bollocks.

The problem is the two copies of the treaty have different meanings and as we are under crown law the Maori interpretation can fuck right off.

The Maori had no written language when the English arrived so there was going to be some mistakes made when a copy was given to them.

And if they care so much about belonging to the land why do they keep selling it off if they get it back?
And why if they care so much about iwi does the payouts that they get from the crown never trickle down to the people?

[mashman]

And if they care so much about belonging to the land why do they keep selling it off if they get it back?
And why if they care so much about iwi does the payouts that they get from the crown never trickle down to the people?

Because some of them do business like whitey? probably due to a diluting of their gene pool.

[SMOKEU]

Damn white supremacists on here who think there was some inherent right to colonisation are simply products of colonisation myths. That we somehow helped Maori by colonising, that we had an inherent/divine right to colonise due simply to technological or supposed moral advancement. That we were being benevolent by even giving them the option of a Treaty when we had a supposed right to simply exterminate them.



They would still be running around with spears killing and eating one another in their primitive, stone age society if it wasn't for cheeky whitey who came along. The whites were the ones who came along and gave them everything they needed to become a civilized race. If they don't like it then they can fuck off into the bush and live like they have in pre colonial times. It seems that every one of them embraces modern society, so it can't be that bad.

They were the ones who hunted the moa to extinction, and they continue to abuse the land and sea by selling fishing rights to foreign vessels who overfish the waters. They don't give a fuck about the land anywhere near as much as they say they do. The tribes are nothing more than a bunch of lazy, incompetent fools who want everything handed to them on a plate, and they are the first to cry "racist" when they don't get what they want.

I have met some good Maoris who have nothing to do with that racist tribal bullshit, and those Maoris work hard to live in our society, and I have a lot of respect for them who choose to do so.

[mashman]

They would still be running around with spears killing and eating one another in their primitive, stone age society if it wasn't for cheeky whitey who came along. The whites were the ones who came along and gave them everything they needed to become a civilized race. If they don't like it then they can fuck off into the bush and live like they have in pre colonial times. It seems that every one of them embraces modern society, so it can't be that bad.

They were the ones who hunted the moa to extinction, and they continue to abuse the land and sea by selling fishing rights to foreign vessels who overfish the waters. They don't give a fuck about the land anywhere near as much as they say they do. The tribes are nothing more than a bunch of lazy, incompetent fools who want everything handed to them on a plate, and they are the first to cry "racist" when they don't get what they want.

I have met some good Maoris who have nothing to do with that racist tribal bullshit, and those Maoris work hard to live in our society, and I have a lot of respect for them who choose to do so.

but they're black? Does the same hold for the Asian tribes? Or the white supremacist tribes? Or the motorcycle tribes? The govt sells rights to oil exploration and drilling and mining that leaves a huge mess everywhere. Big picture fucko, Yes, that's it Mr Anderson, look past the flesh.

[BoristheBiter]

Because some of them do business like whitey? probably due to a diluting of their gene pool.

What the ones that work hard for what they have or the ones that steal?

[SMOKEU]

but they're black? Does the same hold for the Asian tribes? Or the white supremacist tribes? Or the motorcycle tribes? The govt sells rights to oil exploration and drilling and mining that leaves a huge mess everywhere. Big picture fucko, Yes, that's it Mr Anderson, look past the flesh.

What white supremacist tribes, and what motorcycle tribes? I don't know exactly what you're trying to say.

[mashman]

What the ones that work hard for what they have or the ones that steal?

There's a difference?


What white supremacist tribes, and what motorcycle tribes? I don't know exactly what you're trying to say.

Nothing at all. Go back to sleep sweet prince

[BoristheBiter]

There's a difference?



Nothing at all. Go back to sleep sweet prince

http://static.fjcdn.com/comments/Obvious+_7753500b469bfcf5d93f551773f11793.jpg

you're not even trying today.

[Asher]

What a pile of PC, soft cock, bollocks.

The problem is the two copies of the treaty have different meanings and as we are under crown law the Maori interpretation can fuck right off.

The Maori had no written language when the English arrived so there was going to be some mistakes made when a copy was given to them.


Actually the Maori version should be the only one considered, in most countries bounding agreements in the native language override the English versions.
Laws these days when mentioning the Treaty refer to its 'intent' and not exactly what is written.

[Asher]

They would still be running around with spears killing and eating one another in their primitive, stone age society if it wasn't for cheeky whitey who came along. The whites were the ones who came along and gave them everything they needed to become a civilized race. If they don't like it then they can fuck off into the bush and live like they have in pre colonial times. It seems that every one of them embraces modern society, so it can't be that bad.
Remember that big police raid in the Urewera's?



They were the ones who hunted the moa to extinction, and they continue to abuse the land and sea by selling fishing rights to foreign vessels who overfish the waters. They don't give a fuck about the land anywhere near as much as they say they do. The tribes are nothing more than a bunch of lazy, incompetent fools who want everything handed to them on a plate, and they are the first to cry "racist" when they don't get what they want.

Sound alot like every other race in NZ

[Ocean1]

Do those who make products manufacture every single component themselves? That rules out 99.99999999999% of the so called self made men then?

In my case, mostly yes. Most producers are smarter, they use any number of labour units to make shit.

[BoristheBiter]

Actually the Maori version should be the only one considered, in most countries bounding agreements in the native language override the English versions.
Laws these days when mentioning the Treaty refer to its 'intent' and not exactly what is written.

Except where English is the first language.

The treaty's intent was for the crown to govern over all, plain and simple the land issue is a whole other disagreement.

And it all happened a very long time ago so when will it end?
When all of the land is given back to Maori? we know that will never happen.
What about the wrong Maori have done? should we now start taking the land back because of that as it breaks there side of the treaty? after all whats good for the goose.

[fuknK1W1]

Why do I get the feeling that this thread is going to end up in PD?
Are we there yet:yawn:

[SMOKEU]

Are we there yet:yawn:

With a bit of my input it almost certainly will be.

[Nova.]

Everyone secretly knows I'm right, but won't admit it. :nya:

[superman]

What a pile of PC, soft cock, bollocks.

The problem is the two copies of the treaty have different meanings and as we are under crown law the Maori interpretation can fuck right off.

The Maori had no written language when the English arrived so there was going to be some mistakes made when a copy was given to them.

And if they care so much about belonging to the land why do they keep selling it off if they get it back?
And why if they care so much about iwi does the payouts that they get from the crown never trickle down to the people?

At the time of the signing of the treaty Pakeha numbers had barely grown after 50 years of being in this country. Why would Maori willingly sign over sovereignty to Europeans when they could have easily wiped out all Pakeha settlements if they had wished in 1840. It would be noted that the Declaration of Independence in 1835 had very translational issues and missionaries who had learned Maori for over 30 years were used in the translation process. While it ended up being a miscommunication, the inherent right thereafter would go to the Maori.

Why are we under Crown law? Because the British claimed the North Island by cession before many of the tribes had even signed the Maoris version, and claimed the South Island by discovery due to the inhabitants being uncivilised. This was a false claim to make in the first place, especially since the majority of the tribes did not sign the English version but the Maori version, which gave the Crown a right to governorship but left power over land and 'all things treasured' to Maori.

[scumdog]

but left power over land and 'all things treasured' to Maori.

Even 'things' yet to be invented or appear on this planet?:shifty:

[mashman]

In my case, mostly yes. Most producers are smarter, they use any number of labour units to make shit.

So because it's only mostly, you are part of that 99% (snigger) then. Which, by your definition, makes you not a real man... so you were flashing for no real reason.

[BoristheBiter]

At the time of the signing of the treaty Pakeha numbers had barely grown after 50 years of being in this country. Why would Maori willingly sign over sovereignty to Europeans when they could have easily wiped out all Pakeha settlements if they had wished in 1840. It would be noted that the Declaration of Independence in 1835 had very translational issues and missionaries who had learned Maori for over 30 years were used in the translation process. While it ended up being a miscommunication, the inherent right thereafter would go to the Maori.

Why are we under Crown law? Because the British claimed the North Island by cession before many of the tribes had even signed the Maoris version, and claimed the South Island by discovery due to the inhabitants being uncivilised. This was a false claim to make in the first place, especially since the majority of the tribes did not sign the English version but the Maori version, which gave the Crown a right to governorship but left power over land and 'all things treasured' to Maori.

Who knows why they signed it, Who knows why the crown made the treaty in the first place.
Maybe the Maoris had heard about Australia and England felt a little guilty.

England never went anywhere and like someone else rule, even in India they ruled the land. so why would they do it here?
If so many didn't even sign it then why is it the first thing they go running to when the want a hand out?

Why was it a false claim to make? they were uncivilized. and they didn't have a flag.

All I do know is, if you keep looking at the past you will stay in the past and too many of Maori leaders want to stay there.

[superman]

Who knows why they signed it, Who knows why the crown made the treaty in the first place.
Maybe the Maoris had heard about Australia and England felt a little guilty.

England never went anywhere and like someone else rule, even in India they ruled the land. so why would they do it here?
If so many didn't even sign it then why is it the first thing they go running to when the want a hand out?

Why was it a false claim to make? they were uncivilized. and they didn't have a flag.

All I do know is, if you keep looking at the past you will stay in the past and too many of Maori leaders want to stay there.

Not who knows... there's an obvious reason if you look through Maori culture and the events around that time. The Treaty reaffirmed their sovereignty, 5 years previous the Declaration of Independence was a Crown declaration of their sovereignty so why would it suddenly be taken away? Pakeha were to be partners because the Maori knew they'd benefit from them. If you read into the debates that took place during the signings of the Treaty (debate, feast and trust being far more important in Maori culture than scribbling on a piece of paper) the outcome to Maori was clear. Chiefs were stating things such as 'What man of sense would believe that the governor will take our land away and give us only a part of it?', 'Hear all of you, Pakeha's and Maoris. This is my speech. My desire is that we should all be of one heart. Speak your words openly; speak as you mean to act; do not say one thing and mean another.', 'You must preserve our customs and never permit our land to be wrested from us.', 'the shadow of the land goes to the Queen but the substance remains with us.'

It was seen as a clear reaffirmation of their power, and they were going to be protected by the Queen in a form of mutual protection. This all was taking place as some settlers were running amok, and both Pakeha and Maori wanted to create a stable relationship. The governor was seen to be bringing an end to inter-tribal violence.

We should obviously look to the future, I think a country based upon Tikanga and mixed with European values would be good. It would make us a far more unique country than the 'Britain of the south' where Maori are treated as circus types only good for attracting tourists.

I never said the English would have not actively tried to rule, but that they did it behind the Maoris back. They didn't actively proclaim they were there to take control, it was a very sneaky trust gaining process followed by a stab in the back.

Claiming the North by cession was wrong since the majority of tribes hadn't signed the Treaty, the United Tribes of New Zealand had a flag from 1835 as set in the Declaration of Independence, but how does a European construct of a flag mean civilized anyway? They claim the south was uncivilized because their concept of civilized was written language, hierarchical governance etc.

And like with India the English should realise their mistakes and depart. Leave the country to its native citizens. It's the only decent thing to do after wiping out such a large part of their culture and diminishing their inherent rights to Aotearoa.

[JimO]

Not who knows... there's an obvious reason if you look through Maori culture and the events around that time. The Treaty reaffirmed their sovereignty, 5 years previous the Declaration of Independence was a Crown declaration of their sovereignty so why would it suddenly be taken away? Pakeha were to be partners because the Maori knew they'd benefit from them. If you read into the debates that took place during the signings of the Treaty (debate, feast and trust being far more important in Maori culture than scribbling on a piece of paper) the outcome to Maori was clear. It was a reaffirmation of their power, and they were going to be protected by the Queen in a form of mutual protection. This all was taking place as some settlers were running amok, and both Pakeha and Maori wanted to create a stable relationship. The governor was seen to be bringing an end to inter-tribal violence.

We should obviously look to the future, I think a country based upon Tikanga and mixed with European values would be good. It would make us a far more unique country than the 'Britain of the south' where Maori are treated as circus types only good for attracting tourists.

I never said the English would have not actively tried to rule, but that they did it behind the Maoris back. They didn't actively proclaim they were there to take control, it was a very sneaky trust gaining process followed by a stab in the back.

Claiming the North by cession was wrong since the majority of tribes hadn't signed the Treaty, the United Tribes of New Zealand had a flag from 1835 as set in the Declaration of Independence, but how does a European construct of a flag mean civilized anyway? They claim the south was uncivilized because their concept of civilized was written language, hierarchical governance etc.

And like with India the English should realise their mistakes and depart. Leave the country to its native citizens. It's the only decent thing to do after wiping out such a large part of their culture and diminishing their inherent rights to Aotearoa.
what a lot of fucking bullshit, maori seem to have benefited the most out of european settlement, if europeans left now the maori would sell NZ to the chinese in a flash

[superman]

what a lot of fucking bullshit, maori seem to have benefited the most out of european settlement, if europeans left now the maori would sell NZ to the chinese in a flash

:confused: Your points are well articulated with strong backing. :niceone:

I'm starting to think this country is just filled with dumb white racist cunts.

[JimO]

:confused: Your points are well articulated with strong backing. :niceone:

I'm starting to think this country is just filled with dumb white racist cunts.
what, instead of dumb black lazy cunts

[Nova.]

what, instead of dumb black lazy cunts

Thanks for adding reputation to this user. May you be lucky enough to receive the same Reputation back in turn.

[Hitcher]

Whats so special about tangata whenua?

It's sad that you have to ask. They're Treaty of Waitangi partners. That gives them a bunch of rights that they negotiated with the Crown back in 1840. Regrettably the Crown, as represented by subsequent governments in New Zealand, hasn't been that crash hot since then in holding up its end of the bargain negotiated in good faith way back when.

[BoristheBiter]

Not who knows... .

Sorry I just think you are completely wrong and will leave it there.

[superman]

Sorry I just think you are completely wrong and will leave it there.

:laugh: Alright... I'll take your absence of retort or evidential backing as 'this is my belief and I don't want you trying to change it'

That's how most people hold opinions anyway... much to human demise.

[duckonin]

It's sad that you have to ask. They're Treaty of Waitangi partners. That gives them a bunch of rights that they negotiated with the Crown back in 1840. Regrettably the Crown, as represented by subsequent governments in New Zealand, hasn't been that crash hot since then in holding up its end of the bargain negotiated in good faith way back when.

Treaty of Waitangi is now defunk.Yes your words hitcher "way back then". Move on. those that it was to serve are now long deceased. Those that now utilize the words of the treaty do so knowing it was not signed for future generations of white/Maori crossbreds, but for Maoris only. Those like yourself with self professed words only serve to encourage those with a white brain to make the most of destroying this country for their own greed and racist to the end they are.

[FROSTY]

I read that piece and other that the use of language I agree whole heartedly with the woman.
Put simply -YES there should be maori representation in council but that representation needs to be earned in the same way as any other racial group is represented

[BoristheBiter]

:laugh: Alright... I'll take your absence of retort or evidential backing as 'this is my belief and I don't want you trying to change it'

That's how most people hold opinions anyway... much to human demise.

funny i could say the same about you.

whose culture is in demise? Not mine so it must be yours.

[98tls]

:confused: Your points are well articulated with strong backing. :niceone:

I'm starting to think this country is just filled with dumb white racist cunts.

:laugh::laugh::laugh:As opposed to what?Suburbs full of welfare dependant black racist cunts firing out more soon to be welfare dependent black racist cunts.Dont be hatin the white man bro he bought the welfare system not to mention the big houses where everything is free.

[superman]

:laugh::laugh::laugh:As opposed to what?Suburbs full of welfare dependant black racist cunts firing out more soon to be welfare dependent black racist cunts.Dont be hatin the white man bro he bought the welfare system not to mention the big houses where everything is free.

http://sfw.chanarchive.com/content/61_tv/13586544/1292627333268.jpg

[mashman]

:laugh::laugh::laugh:As opposed to what?Suburbs full of welfare dependant black racist cunts firing out more soon to be welfare dependent black racist cunts.Dont be hatin the white man bro he bought the welfare system not to mention the big houses where everything is free.

You've been to middle England I see.

[BoristheBiter]

You've been to middle England I see.

Can't say I've seen many Maori in England.

[Nova.]

Can't say I've seen many Maori in England.

Not many, if any. :first:

[Hitcher]

Treaty of Waitangi is now defunk.Yes your words hitcher "way back then". Move on. those that it was to serve are now long deceased. Those that now utilize the words of the treaty do so knowing it was not signed for future generations of white/Maori crossbreds, but for Maoris only. Those like yourself with self professed words only serve to encourage those with a white brain to make the most of destroying this country for their own greed and racist to the end they are.

What utter twaddle. The Treaty of Waitangi isn't "defunk" (sic). It's just as current and legal as any other statute in New Zealand. Those who it is to serve are still alive -- all of us who are citizens of New Zealand, irrespective of our parentage. I have no idea what colour my brain is or why that may be connected to any alleged ambition I may harbour to destroy this country.

I know racism when I smell it. It is an aroma I abhor. The stench in this thread is overpowering, which may also have something to do with some braindead individuals who have posted in it.

[mashman]

You've been to middle England I see.

izzit only Maori dat iz black? coz der woz no mension of Maori in that fellaz sentence... just for the record, I'm white and hate the white man and his little bag of tricks.

[Nova.]

izzit only Maori dat iz black? coz der woz no mension of Maori in that fellaz sentence... just for the record, I'm white and hate the white man and his little bag of tricks.

Fuck you too.

[mashman]

Fuck you too.

Oh shit. From reading your posts I thought you were just being a troll of the coloured persuasion... not necessarily Maori, possibly African or African American, maybe even Asian but gansta like... it would seem an apology is in order. My apologies to any people of colour for thinking that this racist piece of shit was anything other than white.

Whilst I agree with everyone being kiwi, I do not agree with the white mans way of running an economy and governing people. I'd rather run around naked scalping people, potentially even dining out on their freshly shaven corpse or indeed enjoying life in times of peace with the social structure that comes with the indigenous way of treating people, than looking down on someone because it gives me joy joy feelings to know that I am considerably superior to them... especially when that superiority is based on the colour of their skin.

[Nova.]

white is right.:Police:

[BoristheBiter]

What utter twaddle. The Treaty of Waitangi isn't "defunk" (sic). It's just as current and legal as any other statute in New Zealand. Those who it is to serve are still alive -- all of us who are citizens of New Zealand, irrespective of our parentage. I have no idea what colour my brain is or why that may be connected to any alleged ambition I may harbour to destroy this country.

I know racism when I smell it. It is an aroma I abhor. The stench in this thread is overpowering, which may also have something to do with some braindead individuals who have posted in it.

Yep it is alive and well in NZ on both sides, but when it is spouted by a groups leader, what do you expect.

[300weatherby]

Lets paint the first lot of invaders (moari) of this country green, for a moment, to take colour out of the equasion. Moari were NOT here first. A peacefull peope without a major ecological footprint were. They were (and what is left of thier desendants is) known collectively as Moriori.

The moari INVADERS, killed and ate as many of them as they could, the rest became slaves and were forcibly assimilated into whichever tribe had captured them. Some escaped and reformed on the Chatham Islands.

Moari set about establishing on seperate tribal lines across NZ over a few hundred years, attempting as often as possible to eradicate each other, man woman and child. That is called GENICIDE. On trips away geniciding, slaves came along as walking fresh food, that is called CANNABALISIM. While one bunch was away committing genicide, another bunch would attack those who remained behind, where possible taking slaves and killing and eating the rest. This repeats over and over. Ngai Tahu eastablished as far south as they could to escape this stupidity and become something better. The further south you go, the harder you have to work, the more you have to endure. Interesting to note the difference in fortunes between north Island moari and South.

Moari set about destroying the ecology with lazyness and greed. Burning hundreds of thousands of hectares of bush and swamp lands ,over and over again, destoying entire species to drive out a few Moa each time. (seen any of them lately?) Eventually they would have destoyed everything, only fish would have been left to carry them. There is no understanding of ecological balance inherent in moari nature, this carries over into how they see the lolly jar that is the taxpayer dollar. As long as the jar on the windsill has our money in it, they will continue to demand it. Funny how the taxpayer money sticks to those ( and thier associated cohorts) handed the political influence based on colour not ability, but does NOT flow down. In 1984 it was assessed that enough money was available in handout " treaty based bullshit, that every man woman and child with claim to being moari, could have $25,000 dollars in cash in their account. Didn't happen, funny that.

Side note: Interesting that we have Americans and Canadians in Chrishchurch building houses for deserate families, as part of an international aid programme.None of the North Island moari mob holding tightly onto the purse stings offer anything but hollow platitudes.

Their standard behaviour of 6 generations and prior is not greatly different today, evoultion moves slowly. Rape. Serious Assault. Theft. Infancicide. Who is represented the most, in the REPORTED crime against people.? This behaviour is by CHOICE........ not circumstance.
Moari could just as easily be geen not black. the word "black" used in a derogatory manner is actually about a specific type of person rather than the acual colour of the skin, it just happens to be that they are co incidental in their effect on the rest of the population.
13.5 percent population they occupy, yet they seek influence BEYOND that ratio. NOT democratic. Not that we will have democracy anyway in a few short decades when the "asian invasion" will flood us out via MMP.

Moari political influence at local and central government level should always be resisted and placed under close observation when it exists.

Moari are NOT tangata watsit and have no moral right to claim anything. They were NOT first. They were selling something that didn't belong to them in the first place

[wharekura]

I started this thread for debate and admit i thought it would be just "black vs white" rants. I wanted to add to the discussion if I strongly opposed a series of thought - and to my surprise there was only one. Other remarks being of interesting debate to the point that there is almost a pleasing balance.

[BoristheBiter]

I started this thread for debate and admit i thought it would be just "black vs white" rants. I wanted to add to the discussion if I strongly opposed a series of thought - and to my surprise there was only one. Other remarks being of interesting debate to the point that there is almost a pleasing balance.

Unfortunately debate is not what we hear. (not meaning this thread but in general)
It is just a list of demands the we are expected to bend over for because of the treaty.

I am all for the keeping of the Maori culture and heritage, just like I keep my English one (I think that might have something to do with going to school in Kawerau) but it is up to me to keep it and not anyone else's and at no time should it be a burden on anyone else.

For to long there have been to many concessions given to Maori based on one reason only and it has started to leave a bad taste in many a mouth.
Every decade or so there is a new reason used why Maori are over represented in the negative statistics and at some point they just have to start looking at themselves.

In the UK the NF has started to poll higher, not because of a race reason but they feel like they are not being heard and this has how started to happen here, not because there is any more, or less, racism than before but people are sick of the same old reteric.

Now you might say that the NF are just a bunch of racists that have no relevance in today's world, and I think you would be right and most people agree with you but this could also be said for the Mana party and to some extent the Maori party (more the people than the party).