Sports bike scum

[wanpo]

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/eyYlRZAdPGk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Apologies if this is a repost.

Police were apparently targeting sports bikes on memorial day. This guy gets pulled over with the cop demanding to have his camera to use in incriminating other riders.

[MentalFacility]

Apologies if this is a repost.

Police were apparently targeting sports bikes on memorial day. This guy gets pulled over with the cop demanding to have his camera to use in incriminating other riders.

I can understand that in line of duty copters get to deal with some top quality assholes, but if copters themselves tend to ditch the principles they are ought to protect... "There s got to be something wrong with that guy" principle just doesn't justify how u should treat a potential suspect. Its funny how the legal system sees speeding offences on the par as being a rapist or a crack vendor. Consequences of speeding can be severe, no doubt, but we do it for fun, there is no intention to harm anyone.

Unnecessary violence and shoveling of the badge and the uniform is just one of the ways a person can show how much of a miserable nobody they really are. I recon that chubby superhero on a copter charger was bullied in school, and now is getting fucked in the arse by his wify.

[unstuck]

Hope that fat cunt gets in the shit for that. Glad our police are not like that, I would of grabbed his gun an blown his fucken fat head off.:headbang::headbang:

[skippa1]

Apologies if this is a repost.

Police were apparently targeting sports bikes on memorial day. This guy gets pulled over with the cop demanding to have his camera to use in incriminating other riders.

Hmmmmm this was the cops dash cam before he pulled the biker over.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=iv&src_vid=eyYlRZAdPGk&annotation_id=annotation_986674&v=L_bFKtx42AM

[unstuck]

Well thats a bit different then, still dont see what the other guy that got pulled over did anything other than have a camera that they could use to arrest some of those cocks on bikes. Good job I,m not allowed guns. Still glad our cops aint like their cops.:devil2::headbang::headbang:

[Akzle]

I can understand that in line of duty copters get to deal with some top quality assholes, but if copters themselves tend to ditch the principles they are ought to protect... "There s got to be something wrong with that guy" principle just doesn't justify how u should treat a potential suspect. Its funny how the legal system sees speeding offences on the par as being a rapist or a crack vendor. Consequences of speeding can be severe, no doubt, but we do it for fun, there is no intention to harm anyone.

Unnecessary violence and shoveling of the badge and the uniform is just one of the ways a person can show how much of a miserable nobody they really are. I recon that chubby superhero on a copter charger was bullied in school, and now is getting fucked in the arse by his wify.the problem with cops is that the supposed mantra "innocent until PROVEN guilty is the exact reverse of how they behave. questioning you even "to eliminate you as a suspect" shows just that. you ARE a suspect, and instead of doing, say, "real police work"/investigation, it's easier to grill you until you say something stupid and then pin some charges to you by pointing/interpreting the evidence that way.

there is a slight difference in "par" between rape and speeding. but the process is much the same.
the thing about speeding is that the cops don't actually have to do any work, they just flick on the lights when their radar goes beep and hey-presto, you're instantly guilty: admit guilt, identify yourself immediately, hand over some money within 28 days.

i do wonder at many people who choose the path of policy enforcement, why they feel the need to enforce their will/ the government's dictates on everyone else. really, deep down we all know that "safer communities together" is horseshit. "keep the darkies repressed/ locked up (to scare the crap out of the white folk) and fleecing money from the sheep" is probably more apt.

don't get me wrong, plenty of small(er) town cops, community constables, det. inspectors etc do a fine job of ignoring things that aren't going to harm anyone else (like speeding) while being as on-the-ball as they can about burglaries etc.
but the prime function of teh popo at large is not one that benefits most people.


Hope that fat cunt gets in the shit for that. Glad our police are not like that, I would of grabbed his gun an blown his fucken fat head off.:headbang::headbang:no. no i don't think you would have.

--
and now... B0b's "know your rights" hint of the day:

you have the right against self incrimination, which means you don't actually have to talk to police at all, much less hand over a "license" or "identify yourself"
you have the right to remain silent, even before those kind folk in blue give you that right.

[Edbear]

Hmmmmm this was the cops dash cam before he pulled the biker over.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=iv&src_vid=eyYlRZAdPGk&annotation_id=annotation_986674&v=L_bFKtx42AM

I wonder how many anti Police members here watchd it? Some posts are typical of those who hate without reason and never let the facts get in the way of their prejudices.

[caseye]

In NZ Failure to provide a Police officer with you name and address is enough to have you locked up. So Go for it and remain silent, no skin off my nose.
You clowns should not be allowed to ride motorised vehicles of any sort.
Watch the vid.The officer ignored many other offences in his careful pursuit of the guy he stopped, no one was hurt except the dick with the helmet cams ego.
Then to read some of the posts on the vids commets line, wow.
I don't suspect, I know, if any one of you keyboard warriors were ever in trouble you'd be hollering for our boys in blue pretty quick smart, if any one of you did what these wallies on bikes did you'd expect to go down, wouldn't you?
Grow up!
Get off our roads and make em safer and pleasanter for those of us who ride with no expectation of being picked on and don't give other motorists cause to Hate bikers.

[Old Steve]

What a bunch of idiots. The only biker who was showing any common sense was the poor bastard who got pulled over. He had bikes passing on the inside of him, pulling sharply in front of him, speeding passed him, the only thing he seems to have done wrong was to have the helmet cam. Maybe he changed lanes without indicating, but there are states in the USA where you don't have to indicate to change direction.

I think the cop made a bad call, but what would you have done faced with such mass idiocy - he was the one who was going to have to scrape some underprotected body off the road if they crashed. Look at what some of those fools were wearing - or not wearing more like it, that girl who got off the ute and hopped onto the back of the bike didn't have a helmet and wasn't even wearing shoes was she? And if the blue bike was pulled up for an obstructed license plate, then half those bikes could have been pulled up for that too - could hardly see where the plates were on most of them.

[Owl]

I would of grabbed his gun an blown his fucken fat head off.:headbang::headbang:

Sure you would.:killingme:killingsomeone

[Madness]

After watching both vids it's clear to me that this is yet another case of a seemingly innocent rider being fucked over by the Popo due to the actions of others & the said Popos indifference to properly identifying the offenders. That never happens in N.Z :oi-grr:

[unstuck]

Sure you would.:killingme:killingsomeone

Tis why I am not allowed near firearms.:( I am way to unstable:devil2:

[Hawk]

In NZ Failure to provide a Police officer with you name and address is enough to have you locked up. So Go for it and remain silent, no skin off my nose.
You clowns should not be allowed to ride motorised vehicles of any sort.
Watch the vid.The officer ignored many other offences in his careful pursuit of the guy he stopped, no one was hurt except the dick with the helmet cams ego.
Then to read some of the posts on the vids commets line, wow.
I don't suspect, I know, if any one of you keyboard warriors were ever in trouble you'd be hollering for our boys in blue pretty quick smart, if any one of you did what these wallies on bikes did you'd expect to go down, wouldn't you?
Grow up!
Get off our roads and make em safer and pleasanter for those of us who ride with no expectation of being picked on and don't give other motorists cause to Hate bikers.
want he said

[Mort]

In NZ Failure to provide a Police officer with you name and address is enough to have you locked up. So Go for it and remain silent, no skin off my nose.
You clowns should not be allowed to ride motorised vehicles of any sort.
Watch the vid.The officer ignored many other offences in his careful pursuit of the guy he stopped, no one was hurt except the dick with the helmet cams ego.
Then to read some of the posts on the vids commets line, wow.
I don't suspect, I know, if any one of you keyboard warriors were ever in trouble you'd be hollering for our boys in blue pretty quick smart, if any one of you did what these wallies on bikes did you'd expect to go down, wouldn't you?
Grow up!
Get off our roads and make em safer and pleasanter for those of us who ride with no expectation of being picked on and don't give other motorists cause to Hate bikers.

So if you were stopped and arrested for having a helmet camera you'd be ok with that ?

[Owl]

Tis why I am not allowed near firearms.:( I am way to unstable:devil2:

Sell the Honda and move away from Gore! You'll feel much better:msn-wink:

[MentalFacility]

In NZ Failure to provide a Police officer with you name and address is enough to have you locked up. So Go for it and remain silent, no skin off my nose.
You clowns should not be allowed to ride motorised vehicles of any sort.
Watch the vid.The officer ignored many other offences in his careful pursuit of the guy he stopped, no one was hurt except the dick with the helmet cams ego.
Then to read some of the posts on the vids commets line, wow.
I don't suspect, I know, if any one of you keyboard warriors were ever in trouble you'd be hollering for our boys in blue pretty quick smart, if any one of you did what these wallies on bikes did you'd expect to go down, wouldn't you?
Grow up!
Get off our roads and make em safer and pleasanter for those of us who ride with no expectation of being picked on and don't give other motorists cause to Hate bikers.

What i was trying to say it takes a decent person to be a good cop. Cops are a must to have any sort of a decent community, but they are all just people, and some of them are bad people that make good cops look bad.

[onearmedbandit]

Lots of talk about this on the American forums. He got arrested for his number plate being obscured. There is an investigation into the police officers actions and talk of legal action from the rider.

[pritch]

I watched the video and really couldn't see too much wrong with the riding. Most certainly didn't seem like they were speeding.

The cop initially spent quite a long time in his car, presumably seeking advice as to a possible charge?
Even so, arresting someone for an obscured plate is disproportionate.

If the seizure of his camera was illegal, and it may have been as he seems to have it back, legal action could follow as litigation is the national sport in the USA. Although this will only be small beer compared to what Kim Dotcom will be into the FBI and the New Zealand Police for if it's found that their seizure and subsequent handling of the Mega Upload data was illegal.

[Ender EnZed]

I watched the video and really couldn't see too much wrong with the riding. Most certainly didn't seem like they were speeding.


+1

The worst thing going on in the first video was a bit of low speed passing on the inside, the cop's dash cam showed one (small) wheelie and one guy obviously being a dick.

[wanpo]

http://www.wfaa.com/news/Motorcyclist-says-dallas-crackdown-went-too-far-159671765.html

News article on the same thing, with some (clueless) official being interviewed about the officer's actions

[willytheekid]

In NZ Failure to provide a Police officer with you name and address is enough to have you locked up. So Go for it and remain silent, no skin off my nose.
You clowns should not be allowed to ride motorised vehicles of any sort.
Watch the vid.The officer ignored many other offences in his careful pursuit of the guy he stopped, no one was hurt except the dick with the helmet cams ego.
Then to read some of the posts on the vids commets line, wow.
I don't suspect, I know, if any one of you keyboard warriors were ever in trouble you'd be hollering for our boys in blue pretty quick smart, if any one of you did what these wallies on bikes did you'd expect to go down, wouldn't you?
Grow up!
Get off our roads and make em safer and pleasanter for those of us who ride with no expectation of being picked on and don't give other motorists cause to Hate bikers.

+1

Well said mate:niceone:
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd187/joostertag/squid.jpg
All I saw was squids!...I hate squids!...was hoping he got pepper sprayed/tazzed and beaten :killingme (maybe our ACC fees wouldn't be so high if there weren't so many dickheads like this on two wheels)

[Tony.OK]

+1

The worst thing going on in the first video was a bit of low speed passing on the inside, the cop's dash cam showed one (small) wheelie and one guy obviously being a dick.

Ya not see the dash cam where all the bikes started coming back down the motorway on the wrong side when the ute got stopped?

Agree that the dude with helmet cam got a raw deal, looking at the dash cam vid I'd say that the cop was at the end of his tether once he pulled the bike over....................wrong place wrong time perhaps?

Being America I'd say that the dude that harassed the cop car by brake checking is lucky the cop didn't turn off the cam and bowl the dickhead off the road......................must've been tempting:msn-wink:

[MentalFacility]

+1

Well said mate:niceone:

All I saw was squids!...I hate squids!...was hoping he got pepper sprayed/tazzed and beaten :killingme (maybe our ACC fees wouldn't be so high if there weren't so many dickheads like this on two wheels)

In USA i think its a fashion statement to have a sports bike and not wear any gear. I never quite understood how it may improve ur show-off skills, so I always wear full gear if I go for a decent ride. In fact I haven't really seen any squids in NZ... apart from those cruiser riders.

[tigertim20]

Hope that fat cunt gets in the shit for that. Glad our police are not like that, I would of grabbed his gun an blown his fucken fat head off.:headbang::headbang:
Id be tempted too!

Hmmmmm this was the cops dash cam before he pulled the biker over.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=iv&src_vid=eyYlRZAdPGk&annotation_id=annotation_986674&v=L_bFKtx42AM

theres a bit more to it than that.

what it boiled down to, was that this occurred during an organised group ride - an annual event.
The previous year, a few bikes on the organised ride had caused some chaos, and the police decided to respond this year with these tactics.
The cops attitude was, by all accounts, in breach of the riders constitutional rights, the cops IS getting assholed for it, and its become a huge shitstorm on the internet, sadly fuelled by the losers that like to whinge about 'ohhh, all fuckin cops are cunts, and theyre all out t get us and they just hate bikes, and fuck the pigs' - when in reality, this was a fairly isolated incident, that is getting blown a bit out of proportion.

[onearmedbandit]

In USA i think its a fashion statement to have a sports bike and not wear any gear. I never quite understood how it may improve ur show-off skills, so I always wear full gear if I go for a decent ride. In fact I haven't really seen any squids in NZ... apart from those cruiser riders.

A lot of the guys on an American forum I frequent have been pulled over by the police wearing full leathers and been given the 'think you're a racer' treatment purely because of wearing the gear.

[tigertim20]

--
and now... B0b's "know your rights" hint of the day:

you have the right against self incrimination, which means you don't actually have to talk to police at all, much less hand over a "license" or "identify yourself"
you have the right to remain silent, even before those kind folk in blue give you that right.

Well, it seems that a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing. your right to silence is essentially a right to not incriminate yourself.
In NZ, you are legally compelled to provide a police officer with your name, address and date of birth upon request - this is simply so they can establish your identity. beyond that, you can refuse to say anything else, how ever refusing to give those few details to a police officer can, and will result in an arrest, and a good chance of charges.

perhaps 'BOB' should stick to cooking tips, or the 'agony aunt' section of the women's weekly?

[tigertim20]

A lot of the guys on an American forum I frequent have been pulled over by the police wearing full leathers and been given the 'think you're a racer' treatment purely because of wearing the gear.

Ive heard of that too.
I went to colorado for three weeks in the middle of summer last year (Actually I arrived almost exactly 1 year ago today - funny that!)
In the time I was there I was shocked at how many retard wore a helmet, and maybe gloves, and nothing else. flip flops, crocs, jandals, singlets/wife beaters, t shirts, shorts were the norm.
I saw three people the entire time I was there who were wearing FULL gear (of any type, cordura OR leather), and two of those three were Harley riders. ONE sports bike I saw in full gear. Yes, I actually counted, I wanted to see how many were actually that bad, or if that was just a stereotypical perception we had of american squids - my experience was that the stereotype was pretty fucking bang on for the majority of riders.

[Glowerss]

Ive heard of that too.
I went to colorado for three weeks in the middle of summer last year (Actually I arrived almost exactly 1 year ago today - funny that!)
In the time I was there I was shocked at how many retard wore a helmet, and maybe gloves, and nothing else. flip flops, crocs, jandals, singlets/wife beaters, t shirts, shorts were the norm.
I saw three people the entire time I was there who were wearing FULL gear (of any type, cordura OR leather), and two of those three were Harley riders. ONE sports bike I saw in full gear. Yes, I actually counted, I wanted to see how many were actually that bad, or if that was just a stereotypical perception we had of american squids - my experience was that the stereotype was pretty fucking bang on for the majority of riders.

I actually just moved to NZ from Chicago in the last few years. In Illinois (state where Chicago is located) Helmets aren't even compulsory. My sisters an ER doctor there still, where bikers are known as "organ donors".

The problem is the way bikes are perceived over there. They're basically seen as toys or fashion statements by mostly young males. There's no licensing restrictions t all, and shit I read somewhere that something like 85% of motorcyclists in the states don't even have a license. There's almost no training programs, and because bikes are SO CHEAP back home (You can get a gently used 3 year old GXSR for under 5k. Theyre like 8 brand new) there's little incentive to take care of it or yourself really.

It just boils down to the sort of people buying them. Because the weather is shit over there 90% of the time, you dont see anyone buying them for regular transport like you do here. People buy a motorcycle because they want to go fast and look cool. Doesn't lend itself to safe, responsible riding.

[tigertim20]

I actually just moved to NZ from Chicago in the last few years. In Illinois (state where Chicago is located) Helmets aren't even compulsory. My sisters an ER doctor there still, where bikers are known as "organ donors".

The problem is the way bikes are perceived over there. They're basically seen as toys or fashion statements by mostly young males. There's no licensing restrictions t all, and shit I read somewhere that something like 85% of motorcyclists in the states don't even have a license. There's almost no training programs, and because bikes are SO CHEAP back home (You can get a gently used 3 year old GXSR for under 5k. Theyre like 8 brand new) there's little incentive to take care of it or yourself really.

It just boils down to the sort of people buying them. Because the weather is shit over there 90% of the time, you dont see anyone buying them for regular transport like you do here. People buy a motorcycle because they want to go fast and look cool. Doesn't lend itself to safe, responsible riding.

Yeah I had lengthy conversations with the wifes family (was my first time meeting them) they were kinda iffy when they found out I ride bikes etc. took a lot to get them to realise that its quite different over here - they saw my frustration, as everytime I saw some idiot on a high HP crotch rocket with fuckall safety gear, I couldnt help but cuss, I wanted to get out of the car and smack people silly at intersections.

I spent the last week abusing riders from the drivers seat of the FIL's Jeep everytime I saw a squid at an intersection 'Hey, Asshat, wheres ya helmet?' "Nice leathers dickhead!" and "You got no helmet cos you're to poor to buy one, or cos you have no fuckin brains to protect anyway?" were my favourite go-to insults. Childish, I know but I live in hope that at least one person went home and thought about it after being called out so publicly. I doubt it, but I can hope.

[Akzle]

...your right to silence is essentially a right to not incriminate yourself.


In NZ, you are legally compelled to provide a police officer with your name, address and date of birth upon request - this is simply so they can establish your identity. beyond that, you can refuse to say anything else, how ever refusing to give those few details to a police officer can, and will result in an arrest, and a good chance of charges.

this is a way longer topic than i'm going into tonight.
it will not result in an arrest. i did it just the other day.
and what charges? do you know? (failing to supply details when required by an enforcement officer? )

...and who are they going to charge with that?

Habeas Corpus!

[CookMySock]

I don't suspect, I know, if any one of you keyboard warriors were ever in trouble you'd be hollering for our boys in blue pretty quick smartEr, yep, and they were no help at all. In fact, they got the fucking fine-toothed comb out did us for everything they could get their fat fingers around. Cunts.


Get off our roads and make em safer and pleasanter for those of us who ride with no expectation of being picked on and don't give other motorists cause to Hate bikers.Motorists dont hate motorcyclists at all, and your lame attempt to pass opinion as fact stands for shit.

Soon there will be revolution if the government and their ad-hoc agencies don't stop targetting ordinary citizens for bulk fundraising, so if your boss offers you the opportunity to wear a weapon I'd suggest you took the threats in this thread seriously, and accepted his offer.

[skippa1]

Id be tempted too!


theres a bit more to it than that.

what it boiled down to, was that this occurred during an organised group ride - an annual event.
The previous year, a few bikes on the organised ride had caused some chaos, and the police decided to respond this year with these tactics.
The cops attitude was, by all accounts, in breach of the riders constitutional rights, the cops IS getting assholed for it, and its become a huge shitstorm on the internet, sadly fuelled by the losers that like to whinge about 'ohhh, all fuckin cops are cunts, and theyre all out t get us and they just hate bikes, and fuck the pigs' - when in reality, this was a fairly isolated incident, that is getting blown a bit out of proportion.

ahh..............What I saw in the OP was the suggestion that the cop had picked on this prick for fuck all........what I saw on the dash cam was a wanker that I would have punished if I had the authority.............or one of his mates......... What would YOU do if that was your job and you saw that action?

[idb]

Er, yep, and they were no help at all. In fact, they got the fucking fine-toothed comb out did us for everything they could get their fat fingers around. Cunts.

Motorists dont hate motorcyclists at all, and your lame attempt to pass opinion as fact stands for shit.

Soon there will be revolution if the government and their ad-hoc agencies don't stop targetting ordinary citizens for bulk fundraising, so if your boss offers you the opportunity to wear a weapon I'd suggest you took the threats in this thread seriously, and accepted his offer.

You start the revolution brother...I'll be right behind you.

[Akzle]

You start the revolution brother...I'll be right behind you.

okay. so now we are three...

unfortunately my plan invovled pretty much all the licensed firearms holders (about quarter million) and their guns.. (about 2 million)... then we could effectively suppress any resistance the government tries to put down and sort this bullshit out.

how does everyone feel about winston peters and tama iti? :D:bleh::D:bleh::D

[Akzle]

...Go for it and remain silent, no skin off my nose...

...I don't suspect, I know, if any one of you keyboard warriors were ever in trouble you'd be hollering for our boys in blue pretty quick smart...

if any one of you did what these wallies on bikes did you'd expect to go down, wouldn't you?

Get off our roads and make em safer and pleasanter for those of us who ride with no expectation of being picked on and don't give other motorists cause to Hate bikers. i'm glad your nose is still skinned, sticking it the places you do without skin would probably lead to a nasty infection... :D :bleh:

and no, you suspect. you don't know.
because i would phone my f*ing grandmother before i phoned the cops again, and i don't much care for her ineptitude either.

list of shit the cops have failed to do anything about:
burglarised house, perpetrators known, 3 witness statements.
stolen car, strong suspicions about perp. witness statements
stolen bike, full details supplied, no witnesses
stolen rifle, stolen airgun and they do ME for failing to secure them (inside a locked house with other people at home (albeit sleeping) full details supplied.
so never mind that some fuck is running around with a really really nice (expensive) semi rifle, just fuck me over because it's legal to do so...:clap::clap: safer communities eh?

to re-iterate. i will not be phoning the police to sort out my f*ing problems. i want nothing to do with them.

i haven't actually seen either of the vids (limited bandwidth) but i really don't give a shit. in most cases where it's "people not doing harm vs crown policy enforcement" my sympathy will lie with the people.

if they were doing shit to endanger anyone else then fair enough to call them on it.

DEMANDING, just because you've got badge and gun, the authority to remove someones property to be used in evidence against them or others is 100% bullshit.

"our roads"...
i love how they're "our roads" but YOU get to dictate who's on them. why don't you stay off them so you can keep your sense of indignation in tact, and just on the off chance that you might give other bikers a bad rep.

[BMWST?]

--
and now... B0b's "know your rights" hint of the day:

you have the right against self incrimination, which means you don't actually have to talk to police at all, much less hand over a "license" or "identify yourself"
you have the right to remain silent, even before those kind folk in blue give you that right.

you have to identify yourself if asked

[Akzle]

you have to identify yourself if asked

why?


really simple question. got an answer?

i'm me. the guy standing in front of the [the cop]... end of.
if they want to tie me to some kind of document, license, certificate... well. fuckem. i'm not a document, license, or certificate. i'm a guy. just like that.

[BMWST?]

why?


really simple question. got an answer?

i'm me. the guy standing in front of the [the cop]... end of.
if they want to tie me to some kind of document, license, certificate... well. fuckem. i'm not a document, license, or certificate. i'm a guy. just like that.

actually you are right to some extent

What rights do I have when I’m dealing with the Police?
You usually have the right to not give the Police any personal details. However in some situations you legally have to give your name, age and address;


when you’re driving or riding a bike
if you’ve been arrested
if you’re in a pub and Police think you’re under-age
if they think you’re a truant (not at school when you’re supposed to be)

If you are legally required to give your personal details, that doesn’t mean you have to give them any other information or make any further statements.

You don’t have to go with the Police to the Police Station unless you’ve been arrested. If you agree to go with them without being arrested, you can change your mind and leave at any time (unless you’ve failed a breath/blood test while driving)

You don’t have to give a verbal or written statement to the Police, no matter what the situation is. If you decide to make a statement you can change your mind and don’t have to go ahead with it Any statement you do choose to make can be used as evidence against you later.

[tigertim20]

this is a way longer topic than i'm going into tonight.
it will not result in an arrest. i did it just the other day.
and what charges? do you know? (failing to supply details when required by an enforcement officer? )

...and who are they going to charge with that?

Habeas Corpus!
they will arrest you as persons unknown, and lock you up, quite simple - the argument being that if you are unprepared to identify yourself, you pose unknown threats - they can and will lock you up.
All very well acting like a know all and having a ''fuck the cops I aint telling them shit" attitude, but belive it or not, the police have dealt with morons like this a thousand times, and they have effective ways of dealing with such people who think they know everything. Go ahead and try it, youll spend quite some time locked up in a cell while they drag their heels, as slowly as possible, until the figure out the best way of dealing with you. Its your time and freedom being wasted, they are paid to be there, so its no skin off their nose.


ahh..............What I saw in the OP was the suggestion that the cop had picked on this prick for fuck all........what I saw on the dash cam was a wanker that I would have punished if I had the authority.............or one of his mates......... What would YOU do if that was your job and you saw that action?
if it was my job, I dunno - theres a good reason Im not a cop, I dont have the patience for some of the people they have to deal with, Id bludgeon some lippy bastard with a truncheon and be out of a job fairly smartly I expect - full respect to those who do the job with dignity, fairness and respect, its a cunt of a job.
Yes the cop picked on THAT particular guy for no reason, Im not condoning that action as I think it was wrong and I imagine it will cause a headache for the officer involved, I was simply trying to add a little more information to the background of what happened.

It would be nice to think that police are capable of compartmentalizing their emotions, and acting professionally at all times, alas, like you and I, they are human and they make fuckups. You or I make a fuckup at work, and we are the joke of the day with our work mates - a Cop makes a fuckup and everyone is on their ass, BURN HIM!!! BURN HIM!! they shout. fuck he's human, it will be dealt with, move along.


why?


really simple question. got an answer?

i'm me. the guy standing in front of the [the cop]... end of.
if they want to tie me to some kind of document, license, certificate... well. fuckem. i'm not a document, license, or certificate. i'm a guy. just like that.
answer? because its our law. pretty simple answer really. like it or hate it we have one in this country, and if you dont follow it, there are consequences. is it that hard to understand?

[Madness]

what I saw on the dash cam was a wanker that I would have punished if I had the authority.............or one of his mates.........

Thank fuck you don't have the authority then. We've got enough cops with the same attitude here already, i.e "If I can't catch the offender I'll just punish some other cunt who may or may not be associated with said offender".

[skippa1]

Thank fuck you don't have the authority then. We've got enough cops with the same attitude here already, i.e "If I can't catch the offender I'll just punish some other cunt who may or may not be associated with said offender".

its human nature fella....get used to it. You are doing it yourself, you dont like my comment and you have grouped NZ cops in there with me:2thumbsup

[Madness]

its human nature fella....get used to it. You are doing it yourself, you dont like my comment and you have grouped NZ cops in there with me:2thumbsup

No, I'm not. You stated what you would do if you had the authority (ie were a cop at the scene of the video) and I compared that to the actions of actual cops here in N.Z under similar circumstances based on personal experience.

You're being a bit of a dick now. Sure you aren't actually a cop?

[skippa1]

No, I'm not. You stated what you would do if you had the authority (ie were a cop at the scene of the video) and I compared that to the actions of actual cops here in N.Z under similar circumstances based on personal experience.

You're being a bit of a dick now. Sure you aren't actually a cop?

shit...didnt mean to upset ya there, no need to resort to insults:( a cop.....:(thanks
are you really telling me that if you were a cop following a bunch of dickheads and they were taunting you, slowing down and speeding up in front of you and generally acting like you were unable to perform your job that when you got the opportunity to talk to one of the group, you would put all emotion to one side and deal with fact? I say BS.It doesnt excuse the cops behaviour but really.....????

[tri boy]

[color=#139922]
stolen rifle, stolen airgun and they do ME for failing to secure them (inside a locked house with other people at home (albeit sleeping) full details supplied.
so never mind that some fuck is running around with a really really nice (expensive) semi rifle, just fuck me over because it's legal to do so...:clap::clap: safer communities eh?



Lucky for the people sleeping that the crim wasn't in a killing mood aye.:msn-wink:
Secure your weapons:nono:

[nosebleed]

ahh..............What I saw in the OP was the suggestion that the cop had picked on this prick for fuck all........what I saw on the dash cam was a wanker that I would have punished if I had the authority.............or one of his mates......... What would YOU do if that was your job and you saw that action?

What i saw on the original OP was a guy that was pulled over because he had a helmet cam that could be used to identify criminal activity (it's in the audio), and was then arrested for an obscured number plate.

What i saw in the dash cam was a group of guys that were obviously the instigators of said "criminal activity"

So I saw two entirely separate events events involving entirely separate people, the only commonality being; Motorcycles, a freeway, and the same cop.

What would I do if it were my job? i'd start by running more, improving my observation skills, and arrest the correct people for the correct offence (allegedly).

Oh, and I'd try not to handcuff people and then get all worked up because we can't we can't the helmet off!

[Madness]

shit...didnt mean to upset ya there, no need to resort to insults:( a cop.....:(thanks
are you really telling me that if you were a cop following a bunch of dickheads and they were taunting you, slowing down and speeding up in front of you and generally acting like you were unable to perform your job that when you got the opportunity to talk to one of the group, you would put all emotion to one side and deal with fact? I say BS.It doesnt excuse the cops behaviour but really.....????

The guy arrested in the first video did not appear to be present at all in the dash-board cam in the second video so IMHO he should not have been stopped at all and certainly not arrested. The cop driving the patrol car with the dash cam was completely useless when it came to doing something to apprehend the cocks shown in that video, it appeared to me that he chose not to. Your previous post suggests that in your opinion it was fine for the arrested biker to be arrested because of the actions of others. What links the rider who was stopped to those that were taunting the popo, other than the fact he was riding a bike? Can't of been his rego because they couldn't see it apparently. That is one big fuck-off fail in my book. Does that answer your question?

One of these days the Popo may accuse you of doing something someone else did. I'd find it interesting to see what your opinion on this matter is then.

[skippa1]

What i saw on the original OP was a guy that was pulled over because he had a helmet cam that could be used to identify criminal activity (it's in the audio), and was then arrested for an obscured number plate.

What i saw in the dash cam was a group of guys that were obviously the instigators of said "criminal activity"

So I saw two entirely separate events events involving entirely separate people, the only commonality being; Motorcycles, a freeway, and the same cop.

What would I do if it were my job? i'd start by running more, improving my observation skills, and arrest the correct people for the correct offence (allegedly).

Oh, and I'd try not to handcuff people and then get all worked up because we can't we can't the helmet off!

yeah I guess its a bit hard to merge the two videos together:weird: tell me how you thought you might be able to see the whole story unfold....actually dont tell me..two seperate events? How do you draw that conclusion?
and as for handcuffing people and getting their helmet off:lol::lol::lol:glad youre not a cop.....:killingme

[Kickaha]

and as for handcuffing people and getting their helmet off:lol::lol::lol:glad youre not a cop.....:killingme
I would smash it off with my baton:Police:

[nosebleed]

Skippa: Madness has done it for me.

[skippa1]

The guy arrested in the first video did not appear to be present at all in the dash-board cam in the second video so IMHO he should not have been stopped at all and certainly not arrested. The cop driving the patrol car with the dash cam was completely useless when it came to doing something to apprehend the cocks shown in that video, it appeared to me that he chose not to. Your previous post suggests that in your opinion it was fine for the arrested biker to be arrested because of the actions of others. What links the rider who was stopped to those that were taunting the popo, other than the fact he was riding a bike? Can't of been his rego because they couldn't see it apparently. That is one big fuck-off fail in my book. Does that answer your question?

One of these days the Popo may accuse you of doing something someone else did. I'd find it interesting to see what your opinion on this matter is then.

yah see...theres your problem with your theroy. Because you didnt see him in the video, he wasnt there and the resultant actions should not have occured. So my question is....are you sure he wasnt there?

as for cops accusing me of shit I didnt do, I'm an ol grandad, I ve been locked up for shit I did and didnt do....wrong place and wrong time, sometimes because of my shit attitude and some times because of theirs. wah wah:baby:

[Madness]

my shit attitude

I rest my case.

[skippa1]

I rest my case.

hey, I never claimed to be perfect, youre the one that is satisfied you would do the right thing:2thumbsup

[Madness]

Here ya go Skippa, You'll fit right in. You may fail the eyesight test and the mental aptitude tests but hey, You've got the desired attitude...
http://www.newcops.co.nz/?gclid=CO-Z0IHM5bACFUk0QgodEjGRcg

[skippa1]

Here ya go Skippa, You'll fit right in. You may fail the eyesight test and the mental aptitude tests but hey, You've got the desired attitude...
http://www.newcops.co.nz/?gclid=CO-Z0IHM5bACFUk0QgodEjGRcg

thanks man....I will file it right next to the other shit I dont want.:niceone:

Heres a club for you too

[Madness]

And another KB member reveals themselves as a stupid old cunt. What a fucking suprise.

[onearmedbandit]

Boys boys, put the handbags away. You're embarrassing the rest of us.

[220 Ohms]

Aaaah Kiwibiker, going full retard since ages ago

[MentalFacility]

Aaaah Kiwibiker, going full retard since ages ago

never go full retard!

http://www.essayscam.org/Forum/shared_files/storage/main/full_retard.jpg

[SMOKEU]

http://us6.memecdn.com/retard-kid_o_157311.jpg

[GrayWolf]

re the "my favourite animal is......CARROT post?? [/IMG]

seems it was not used at the correct time.... but jus for U.. and is sooooo apt :bleh::bleh:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKnoffPV8m0

[Oblivion]

:corn::corn::corn::corn::corn:

[skippa1]

And another KB member reveals themselves as a stupid old cunt. What a fucking suprise.

just tryin to help you mellow a bit and come to a reasonable conclusion.......:rolleyes: of course some "wet behind the ears young fellas think they are right about every conclusion they jump to and need to grow up a bit more first. You just need time and it will come. And not so much of the old, I havent hit 50 yet.....just

PS, a red rep? aw you really are a tough little bastard haha

[skippa1]

Boys boys, put the handbags away. You're embarrassing the rest of us.

hey.....its a man bag:cool:

[Swoop]

...GXSR ... there's little incentive to take care of it or yourself really.
You have seen the Coro loop?

[The Lone Rider]

FYI -

"The video was confiscated and turned over to the gang unit as evidence." :killingme

The arrested was released in less than 10 hours from the arrest.

[Madness]

just tryin to help you mellow a bit and come to a reasonable conclusion... blah blah blah...
PS, a red rep? aw you really are a tough little bastard haha

I have come to a very reasonable conclusion already, see my last post. I gave you red rep because I disagree with your post, that's what the rep system is there for, innit?

Oh well, We're not in America and you're not a cop so we're all safe here in our own little Eutopia. :msn-wink:

[scumdog]

FYI -


The arrested was released in less than 10 hours from the arrest.

Eff me, 10 hours eh? - must have been a bad boy, only takes a short while to organise bail normally.

[Akzle]

actually you are right to some extent...
[COLOR=#333333]What rights do I have when I’m dealing with the Police?...not some extent. i am right. end. there is legislation that says persons have to do what policy enforcers say, but i aint no person.
i wouldn't trust the police to either give me rights or tell me i had more than they wanted me to believe i had.
every time you're given those four rights and asked if you under-stand (stand-under) you put yourself right in their jurisdiction, and forfeit a million other rights you had before you stood under theirs.


they will arrest you as persons unknown, and lock you up, quite simple - the argument being that if you are unprepared to identify yourself, you pose unknown threats - they can and will lock you up.
All very well acting like a know all and having a ''fuck the cops I aint telling them shit" attitude, but belive it or not, the police have dealt with morons like this a thousand times, and they have effective ways of dealing with such people who think they know everything. Go ahead and try it, youll spend quite some time locked up in a cell while they drag their heels, as slowly as possible, until the figure out the best way of dealing with you. Its your time and freedom being wasted, they are paid to be there, so its no skin off their nose.

answer? because its our law. pretty simple answer really. like it or hate it we have one in this country, and if you dont follow it, there are consequences. is it that hard to understand?
our law? who is our? i'm not our... i don't consider that "law"

and yes. i'm working on billing the cops for my time, should they deign to waste mine.
i just got done with the last cop who thought he was going to be an arrogant prick on my property. took 4 months and a SHITLOAD of paperwork (for him, i just wrote some strongly worded letters) but he came back with a cheque for damages. next!

i don't know where you pull the "fuck the police" from. i didn't say it.

and to re-iterate I FAILED TO PROVIDE "MY DETAILS", JUST THE OTHER DAY. i did spend some time in a cell. didn't really bother me. the looks i put on the cunt's face made it worth it. and i'm going to send him a bill for my time anyway.

pose unknown threats? that would require them to act on the presumption of guilt, rather than innocence.. that's a slippery slope buddy.



Lucky for the people sleeping that the crim wasn't in a killing mood aye.:msn-wink:
Secure your weapons:nono:yeah i know. and this was the reason i didn't go all out on draging the cops through paperwork. i did concede my error here (asides from loosing a f*ing sweet gun) but still. they didn't do much to inspire my faith in them.

[tigertim20]

not some extent. i am right. end. there is legislation that says persons have to do what policy enforcers say, but i aint no person.
i wouldn't trust the police to either give me rights or tell me i had more than they wanted me to believe i had.
every time you're given those four rights and asked if you under-stand (stand-under) you put yourself right in their jurisdiction, and forfeit a million other rights you had before you stood under theirs.


our law? who is our? i'm not our... i don't consider that "law"
Its NZ buddy, if you live here, abide by it, or pay the price, its simple. or are you one of these retarded bongas like tame iti who thinks they are entitled to make their own laws? - look where thats landed him
and yes. i'm working on billing the cops for my time, should they deign to waste mine.
i just got done with the last cop who thought he was going to be an arrogant prick on my property. took 4 months and a SHITLOAD of paperwork (for him, i just wrote some strongly worded letters) but he came back with a cheque for damages. next!
billing the cops for your time? good lord you are full of shit
i don't know where you pull the "fuck the police" from. i didn't say it.
your attitude wreaks of that exact sentiment
and to re-iterate I FAILED TO PROVIDE "MY DETAILS", JUST THE OTHER DAY. i did spend some time in a cell. didn't really bother me. the looks i put on the cunt's face made it worth it. and i'm going to send him a bill for my time anyway.
so you failed to comply, and were detained - can you not see whats going on here? its a shame they didnt give you a kicking while you were in there, it might have knocked some sense into you. it is a crying shame that my tax dollars are being swallowed up to deal with morons like you. so, how exactly do you think you won here? you were a dick and you got detained. the cops dont care. hell most of them would probably rather sit at a desk and do paperwork than be out on the streets dealing with people like you - remember, they are PAID to do the job, so its no skin off their nose at all.
pose unknown threats? that would require them to act on the presumption of guilt, rather than innocence.. that's a slippery slope buddy.
no it isnt - you have failed to comply with the law its perfectly reasonable to assume that you are hiding something/guilty of something when you chose to break the law instead of doing something as simple as stating your name and D.O.B - something most 5 year olds can do, but you cant?

yeah i know. and this was the reason i didn't go all out on draging the cops through paperwork. i did concede my error here (asides from loosing a f*ing sweet gun) but still. they didn't do much to inspire my faith in them.



to inspire your faith in them?

you son, are clearly deluded. I give up talking any sense into you, I think we have found a new contender for the "DB award for arrogance and stupidity".

[scracha]

You clowns should not be allowed to ride motorised vehicles of any sort.

Yes "officer" Caseye. Of course your opinion is nothing to do with law. But that's the trouble in this country....if a boy in blue gets pissed off then his opinion is taken as gospel.

Obviously the same applies both here and in the states, which is why I'd encourage EVERYONE with a motorcycle to get a cheap helmet cam. That way when a moustached dickhead pulls you for 132 you can disprove it easily. Also useful for any stupid cager incidents.



Watch the vid.The officer ignored many other offences in his careful pursuit of the guy he stopped, no one was hurt except the dick with the helmet cams ego.

What's your point? I'd certainly be "hurt" if whilst riding along in a lawful manner, some copper stopped me for one "charge", demanded to see the contents of my personal possessions, trumped up a a DIFFERENT charge and then bunged me on chockey for 8 hours.



if any one of you keyboard warriors were ever in trouble you'd be hollering for our boys in blue pretty quick smart,

Not really. Haven't held my breath to get something useful done by them like finding car thieves or burglars. Like most citizens, I regard the newer as more of an overpaid stealth tax type nusance these days. This is a pity....as prior generations of coppers tended to be in the business of dealing with BAD people.



if any one of you did what these wallies on bikes did you'd expect to go down, wouldn't you?

Are you talking about the poor sod with the helmet cam or one of the actual "wallies"? Regarding the "wallies"...well I think I spotted erm....2...possibly stretch to 4 if you include a couple of dodgy group
riding undertakes at around 30mph....and that's after looking at both videos.




n NZ, you are legally compelled to provide a police officer with your name, address and date of birth upon request - this is simply so they can establish your identity. beyond that, you can refuse to say anything else, how ever refusing to give those few details to a police officer can, and will result in an arrest, and a good chance of charges.

You're confusing the words legislation, legal and lawful. Not that I'd have the balls to try it out myself but DB, Akzle etc are not wrong. I know a couple of other yokels going through this whole route and so far it appears that the "law" is an ass.



ahh..............What I saw in the OP was the suggestion that the cop had picked on this prick for fuck all........what I saw on the dash cam was a wanker that I would have punished if I had the authority.............or one of his mates......... What would YOU do if that was your job and you saw that action?

Fuck me, I didn't know you could be arrested/punished for having MATES who ride badly.

My bad.

[Madness]

Do you want to borrow my man-bag, Tim?

[skippa1]

Fuck me, I didn't know you could be arrested/punished for having MATES who ride badly.

My bad.

ahhhh so you are from the "I didnt see it so it didnt happen" brigade too aye?:baby: I dont really care either way about who was right or wrong.....shit happens

[tigertim20]

Do you want to borrow my man-bag, Tim?

only if it has a cell phone in it tana!:clap:

[scumdog]

Obviously the same applies both here and in the states, which is why I'd encourage EVERYONE with a motorcycle to get a cheap helmet cam. That way when a moustached dickhead pulls you for 132 you can disprove it easily. Also useful for any stupid cager incidents.



Wow, I hope none of my 'clients' read this!

No need for a lawyer or shit like that - grab a helmet cam and viola, get off any speeding ticket!!:rolleyes:




(although I'm struggling to see how camera footage automatically means you wiil be able to disprove a speed you have been accused of doing...:weird:)

[Eyegasm]

(although I'm struggling to see how camera footage automatically means you wiil be able to disprove a speed you have been accused of doing...:weird:)

Been a while since I was at school, but I think that speed can be calculated over a distance travelled. This can be determined from a video.

Also can be used to prove that the cop had the correct speed, or put you in more shit...

[scracha]

ahhhh so you are from the "I didnt see it so it didnt happen" brigade too aye? I dont really care either way about who was right or wrong.....shit happens

wah wah...they don't agree with me so I don't care.

Not stating the bleedin obvious but if it DID HAPPEN then surely the cops would have posted that part of the video?



Wow, I hope none of my 'clients' read this!
(although I'm struggling to see how camera footage automatically means you wiil be able to disprove a speed you have been accused of doing...:weird:)
I'm sure most of your 'clients' actually are speeding and 'fair cop' and all that.

However, on the occasions I'm not speeding (majority of time) and a plod again 'mistakes' someone else's speed for mine, I wouldn't waste (and more of) my time arguing with the cop nor writing polite letter. I'd be straight home posting a nice youtube video demonstrating engine noise, scenery/road markings going past, speedo and other traffic (cos we can't all be speeding) prior to panning to police vehicle.

Then I'd write a polite letter with the URL and see if they're stupid enough to proceed.

[SMOKEU]

Eff me, 10 hours eh? - must have been a bad boy, only takes a short while to organise bail normally.

Don't they usually have to appear before a judge to get bail if they get K9 4U?

[skippa1]

wah wah...they don't agree with me so I don't care.

Not stating the bleedin obvious but if it DID HAPPEN then surely the cops would have posted that part of the video?




seriously? I mean really......seriously???:wacko: I agree, if somethng happened in the cameras field of vision then yes, I think that the cops would have put it up. But that wouldnt happen would it. I mean it couldnt possibly happen could it.....It would just be silly if that happened wouldnt it. It is far more likely that the cop was exercising his right as an angry fat bastard with nothing to do except express his full blown anger at a wicked motorcyclist as they should all be punished. Yes that will be it. Thats it.....I see what you are saying now.:whistle:

[Akzle]

1) Its NZ buddy, if you live here, abide by it, or pay the price, its simple. or are you one of these retarded bongas like tame iti who thinks they are entitled to make their own laws? - look where thats landed him
A) actually, i call this land Aotearoa. and there were some people here before white fulla came with his "law" (legislation), who also called this land Aotearoa.
so deflate your ego and set aside your self righteousness for a moment and riddle me this:
if someone has not signed some document, (say, te tiriti o waitangi) and has not agreed to, consented to or voted for, the government to dictate their actions, then how is that government lawful? and is that people bound by that government's laws?

force? or do you have another answer?

2)billing the cops for your time? good lord you are full of shit
A) if you say so. but you should be mightily concerned that the cops don't actually make money, so they're just going to be giving me yours, for their fuckups. good system eh?

3)your attitude wreaks [sic] of that exact sentiment (fuck the police)
A) no. my attitude is exactly this: "if i'm not doing any harm, let me be. if you are not engaging with my to our mutual benefit, don't waste my fucking time." this applies to all people, i don't care what colour their gang's vest is.

4)so you failed to comply, and were detained - can you not see whats going on here? its a shame they didnt give you a kicking while you were in there, it might have knocked some sense into you. it is a crying shame that my tax dollars are being swallowed up to deal with morons like you.
A) i see exactly what's going on, i don't think you do though.
what would kicking me have achieved? and surely your tax dollars would have been much better served by the police letting me be and going on, to say, stop some crime...

5)so, how exactly do you think you won here? you were a dick and you got detained. the cops dont care. hell most of them would probably rather sit at a desk and do paperwork than be out on the streets dealing with people like you - remember, they are PAID to do the job, so its no skin off their nose at all.
A) i don't think you understand just how much paperwork i create. their short file on me is 30 odd pages of size 11 typeface, the last "incident" created a stack nearly a foot high. i don't mean filling in a few forms. i mean call a lawyer and think very carefully about what you put on paper to me. (all of this, with your precious tax dollars :'()

who's winning? why does someone need to win?
and then who loses in that contest? (and what's the contest?)

...if i can help one flaining robin unto it's nest again...
i "win" here because i) i'm not handing over money ii) the junior of the officers, who was actually quite reasonable, had her eyes opened to the bullshit. iii) the looks on this cunt's face.. seriously. it was priceless. i have a photo, i'll post it if you want. iv) despite this cunt hiding behind his cool "i am the law bow down and obey" bullshit, upon talking to him, he claimed to be iwi, and i set the cogs spinning in his head about the illegitimacy of the government and that he was enforcing the very "law" that has robbed our whakapapa, kaumatua and tipuna of their rights, lands, air, and food.
again, i opened his eyes to the bullshit.
v) now, i attempt to dislodge the ego-spanner that's jammed in your cogs. whether i win on this one or you lose... i shall not live in vain

6) ((pose unknown threats? that would require them to act on the presumption of guilt, rather than innocence.. that's a slippery slope buddy.))
no it isnt - you have failed to comply with the law its perfectly reasonable to assume that you are hiding something/guilty of something when you chose to break the law instead of doing something as simple as stating your name and D.O.B - something most 5 year olds can do, but you cant?
A)with THEIR law, not mine.
and it IS NOT reasonable.
why should i have to "identify myself" if i) i haven't committed a crime ii) they have no reason to believe i have iii) there is no witness accusing me of such.???

as far as a "name" and "date of birth" go. i don't remember being born. i couldn't possibly attest to the time or place, or circumstance. the only evidence i have that i was born is that i'm alive.
so how can i state something if i have no knowledge of it?

and what is in a name...
okay, i'm called bob.
no? not good enough. you want a "full name" eh? and that ever important d.o.b
so maybe they actually want to link me to say... a person.
for whose benefit would they do that?

7)I think we have found a new contender for the "DB award for arrogance and stupidity".
A) i think this would be summed up brilliantly with:
"where you point the finger, there are three pointing back."
have a good think about the man in the mirror buddy, if this is your attitude/outlook/perspective on life.
it can be so much better.

and i pity the hell out of any kids you've had, or will have. what a sad way to bring a child up.

[skippa1]

1) Its NZ buddy,etc et etc ,

:corn:

ok....... dont forget to spread those red reps around fellas, theres plenty for all hah:killingme

[tbs]

So, Akzle and Dangerous Bastard, I'm genuinely curious about a couple of things.

Akzle I understand you reject the Sovereignty of Parliament over you based on your Iwi status. Dangerous Bastard I understand you reject Parliament's sovereignty over you, partly based on stuff you've written in the past, but I'm unclear as to your reasoning.

A couple of questions for you both:

You claim to have rights outside of those given to you by the rule of law. What are your rights, and corresponding responsibilities towards the society in which you live?

Who are you answerable to? Or if you want me to use correct grammar while maybe sounding pretentious.... To whom are you answerable?

And this one's for Dangerous Bastard particularly....

Revolution, really? Do you think the average man or woman on the street feels that oppressed? Enough to cut through the massive amount of apathy felt by I suspect the vast majority of the population?


I look forward to your answers.

Edit: sorry, Cookmysock..... But everyone knows you're DB.

[Akzle]

Akzle I understand you reject the Sovereignty of Parliament over you based on your Iwi status. Dangerous Bastard I understand you reject Parliament's sovereignty over you, partly based on stuff you've written in the past, but I'm unclear as to your reasoning.

A couple of questions for you both:

You claim to have rights outside of those given to you by the rule of law. What are your rights, and corresponding responsibilities towards the society in which you live?

Who are you answerable to? Or if you want me to use correct grammar while maybe sounding pretentious.... To whom are you answerable?

And this one's for Dangerous Bastard particularly....

Revolution, really? Do you think the average man or woman on the street feels that oppressed? Enough to cut through the massive amount of apathy felt by I suspect the vast majority of the population?


I look forward to your answers.

dont stand under me man...

i reject the parliament because they're a defacto organisation who i don't see benefiting anyone. it has nothing to do with iwi.
i am citizen earth., so are you, so's everyone else.
i claim no rights over anyone else.
my rights are second only to the rights of the creator, call it god, allah, buddha, ganesh, mother earth, jah. call it whatever the fuck you want.
i have been created, as has everyone else. that puts me exactly equal with everyone else. not above, not below. i'm not claiming the right to tell anyone (let alone everyone) how to live.
there are several "laws" i am bound by (as is everyone else) the laws of physics, god's law, common law, natural law. these laws are laws because they are inescapable for everyone,
they're not written down, in fact they're hardly reflected in the legislation of the world governments today.

as outlined several times i dont live in that society. i may be in the land now called "new zealand" and i may live in somewhere that someone has claimed is a "district".
but boundaries only exist in the minds of small men. countries, borders, territory, it's all a bullshit game used to play men off against each other, create division and conflict where there need not be.

i am answerable to the omnipotent entity outlined in my first point. whatever that is. i am answerable to gravity.
i am answerable to myself. (personal responsibility)

i dont need a statute or "rule of law" to give me rights. i am born with rights. natural rights, god given rights. only if someone infringes against them (as the police are wont to do) is there a problem.
these are often called inalienable rights. they are somewhwat reflected in the magna carta, they were reflected in the intent of america's consititution.
they are rights which no man can lawfully or rightfully deprive me of without force.

IF i do harm to another man (it would be by accident, rather than design) then i become indebted to him, or, if i killed the bastard, his family.
i don't like to live in debt.

and no, i don't think the average blow is motivated enough, nor inclined to, revolt.
that's a shame though.

anyone care to have a crack at answering my questions?
isn't red rep so cool, you get to feel like you've had your little stab, and your opinion matters.
why not go vote about it. =D

[Mushu]

I am amazed at the support for the cop here, I have watched both vids and the treatment the guy receives is not even close to justified.

Watching the cops dash cam he obviously has a good reason to be upset, but there is still no excuse for the way the guy is treated. Most jobs where you have to deal with the public you have to deal with abuse and not only not allowed to pass that abuse to the next customer but in most cases you can't even react to the abuse when it happens (I once worked at one of the busiest service stations in Sydney, when the petrol price went up by about 50% overnight, I was abused for 12 hours straight but if I had have given it back to just 1 customer would have been a warning so 3 would have been my job)

The fact the guy pulls over at all suggests his innocence - do you think the guy that got the cop pissed off in the first place would have ever pulled over? Now the guy with the camera has a reason to lose respect toward the police he may be the dickhead taunting the cop next time.

Unfortunately these things happen everywhere and to a lot of people, there are lazy cops, stupid cops and a lot that just don't care, could I do any better? Hell no. I have plenty of flaws too.

Also, in my experience, if you do find your self in a situation where you are being mistreated by the police there is almost nothing you can do, the courts see the cops as infallible, unless you have rock solid evidence they will not even entertain the suggestion the cop may be lying -I watched a mate go to jail because of a cops blatant lie that conflicted with his own report of the incident (and the useless public defender that didn't know my friends name when I tried to ask him about it less than a minute after we walked out of the court room)

I am definitely up for the revolution, somethings gotta change, but what's gonna stop the same crap from happening again?

[tigertim20]

Im a retarded cunt.[/COLOR]

yes you are.

a shame your mother didnt swallow.

[tbs]

dont stand under me man...

i reject the parliament because they're a defacto organisation who i don't see benefiting anyone. it has nothing to do with iwi.
i am citizen earth., so are you, so's everyone else.
i claim no rights over anyone else.
my rights are second only to the rights of the creator, call it god, allah, buddha, ganesh, mother earth, jah. call it whatever the fuck you want.
i have been created, as has everyone else. that puts me exactly equal with everyone else. not above, not below. i'm not claiming the right to tell anyone (let alone everyone) how to live.
there are several "laws" i am bound by (as is everyone else) the laws of physics, god's law, common law, natural law. these laws are laws because they are inescapable for everyone,
they're not written down, in fact they're hardly reflected in the legislation of the world governments today.

as outlined several times i dont live in that society. i may be in the land now called "new zealand" and i may live in somewhere that someone has claimed is a "district".
but boundaries only exist in the minds of small men. countries, borders, territory, it's all a bullshit game used to play men off against each other, create division and conflict where there need not be.

i am answerable to the omnipotent entity outlined in my first point. whatever that is. i am answerable to gravity.
i am answerable to myself. (personal responsibility)

i dont need a statute or "rule of law" to give me rights. i am born with rights. natural rights, god given rights. only if someone infringes against them (as the police are wont to do) is there a problem.
these are often called inalienable rights. they are somewhwat reflected in the magna carta, they were reflected in the intent of america's consititution.
they are rights which no man can lawfully or rightfully deprive me of without force.

IF i do harm to another man (it would be by accident, rather than design) then i become indebted to him, or, if i killed the bastard, his family.
i don't like to live in debt.

and no, i don't think the average blow is motivated enough, nor inclined to, revolt.
that's a shame though.

anyone care to have a crack at answering my questions?
isn't red rep so cool, you get to feel like you've had your little stab, and your opinion matters.
why not go vote about it. =D


Akzle I think you might have trouble putting forward realistic argument that parliament doesn't benefit anyone. I personally benefit in a lot more ways than I am inconvenienced by Parliament's activities. I benefit from infrastructure, roading, healthcare, economic policies that attempt to foster trade deals with foreign powers for our financial benefit. I directly benefitted from having laws written down that enabled Police officers to detain and prosecute the person who stole my car stereo, and then return my property to me. People who are unable to work and provide for themselves or their families for whatever reason benefit from having systems put in place to see that they are looked after. People who through their own stupidity hurt themselves benefit. Those who are weak and unable to stand up for their own rights benefit. I submit that everyone in society who draws any benefit from organized government in return takes on responsibilities to that government. Your rights are not absolute. They exist in constant tension with your responsibilities toward the rest of society. You can't claim one and opt out of the other.
People try all the time of course. People are largely motivated by self interest. That is why we have crime. That is why we have laws written down for everyone to see..... Because self interest will win out over natural law every time and the wants of the strong will win over the rights of the weak. If you accept the right of a small child to be protected from harm, then you must accept that someone must be entrusted with the role of protecting that child. If the family won't take on that responsibility, and in-fact becomes the source of harm, then who will stand up for that child's rights? That is just one example of why we need a police force. If you accept that some form of enforcement role is required, then their must be rules to lay out how that enforcement role is to be conducted. We need written laws to define the point where our rights give way to our responsibilities, and how justice may be enforced. We also need to respect that our individual rights can be diminished in the interest of seeing justice done for the greater good of society.... to a reasonable degree of course. Parliament has dictated that it is reasonable that any individual must provide their name if asked by a Police Officer. I agree with them.

So Akzle, if you feel it is your God given right to step outside that paradigm, and claim that none of the laws written down to codify acceptable limits to human behaviour apply to you, and further, to then deliberately waste Police time that could be better spent in a productive manner simply because you don't see why you should co-operate in supplying your name, then I submit that your thinking is inconsistent and inherently flawed.

[Bikemad]

Akzle I think you might have trouble putting forward realistic argument that parliament doesn't benefit anyone. I personally benefit in a lot more ways than I am inconvenienced by Parliament's activities. I benefit from infrastructure, roading, healthcare, economic policies that attempt to foster trade deals with foreign powers for our financial benefit. I directly benefitted from having laws written down that enabled Police officers to detain and prosecute the person who stole my car stereo, and then return my property to me. People who are unable to work and provide for themselves or their families for whatever reason benefit from having systems put in place to see that they are looked after. People who through their own stupidity hurt themselves benefit. Those who are weak and unable to stand up for their own rights benefit. I submit that everyone in society who draws any benefit from organized government in return takes on responsibilities to that government. Your rights are not absolute. They exist in constant tension with your responsibilities toward the rest of society. You can't claim one and opt out of the other.
People try all the time of course. People are largely motivated by self interest. That is why we have crime. That is why we have laws written down for everyone to see..... Because self interest will win out over natural law every time and the wants of the strong will win over the rights of the weak. If you accept the right of a small child to be protected from harm, then you must accept that someone must be entrusted with the role of protecting that child. If the family won't take on that responsibility, and in-fact becomes the source of harm, then who will stand up for that child's rights? That is just one example of why we need a police force. If you accept that some form of enforcement role is required, then their must be rules to lay out how that enforcement role is to be conducted. We need written laws to define the point where our rights give way to our responsibilities, and how justice may be enforced. We also need to respect that our individual rights can be diminished in the interest of seeing justice done for the greater good of society.... to a reasonable degree of course. Parliament has dictated that it is reasonable that any individual must provide their name if asked by a Police Officer. I agree with them.

So Akzle, if you feel it is your God given right to step outside that paradigm, and claim that none of the laws written down to codify acceptable limits to human behaviour apply to you, and further, to then deliberately waste Police time that could be better spent in a productive manner simply because you don't see why you be should co-operate in supplying your name, then I submit that your thinking is inconsistent and inherently flawed,and you are a cock

fixed for ya

[tbs]

fixed for ya

Thanks. Appreciate the help.

[MentalFacility]

Thanks. Appreciate the help.

you and Akzle tend to line up with the extremes. In life its somewhere in between. Police is like this because of the human factor. 10 cases solved, but only 5 cases resolved.

Just as for the name, I recon there shouldnt be much problem in supplying your name to the police if you really dont have anything to fear or hide.

[onearmedbandit]

But Akzle doesn't have a name. He can't remember choosing it himself, he was only told that's what his name is. He is a child of the earth. That is all.

[Bikemad]

But Akzle doesn't have a name. He can't remember choosing it himself, he was only told that's what his name is. He is a child of the earth. That is all.

what...is he a hobbit or sumfing?

[Muppet]

1) Its NZ buddy, if you live here, abide by it, or pay the price, its simple. or are you one of these retarded bongas like tame iti who thinks they are entitled to make their own laws? - look where thats landed him
A) actually, i call this land Aotearoa. and there were some people here before white fulla came with his "law" (legislation), who also called this land Aotearoa.
so deflate your ego and set aside your self righteousness for a moment and riddle me this:
if someone has not signed some document, (say, te tiriti o waitangi) and has not agreed to, consented to or voted for, the government to dictate their actions, then how is that government lawful? and is that people bound by that government's laws?

force? or do you have another answer?

2)billing the cops for your time? good lord you are full of shit
A) if you say so. but you should be mightily concerned that the cops don't actually make money, so they're just going to be giving me yours, for their fuckups. good system eh?

3)your attitude wreaks [sic] of that exact sentiment (fuck the police)
A) no. my attitude is exactly this: "if i'm not doing any harm, let me be. if you are not engaging with my to our mutual benefit, don't waste my fucking time." this applies to all people, i don't care what colour their gang's vest is.

4)so you failed to comply, and were detained - can you not see whats going on here? its a shame they didnt give you a kicking while you were in there, it might have knocked some sense into you. it is a crying shame that my tax dollars are being swallowed up to deal with morons like you.
A) i see exactly what's going on, i don't think you do though.
what would kicking me have achieved? and surely your tax dollars would have been much better served by the police letting me be and going on, to say, stop some crime...

5)so, how exactly do you think you won here? you were a dick and you got detained. the cops dont care. hell most of them would probably rather sit at a desk and do paperwork than be out on the streets dealing with people like you - remember, they are PAID to do the job, so its no skin off their nose at all.
A) i don't think you understand just how much paperwork i create. their short file on me is 30 odd pages of size 11 typeface, the last "incident" created a stack nearly a foot high. i don't mean filling in a few forms. i mean call a lawyer and think very carefully about what you put on paper to me. (all of this, with your precious tax dollars :'()

who's winning? why does someone need to win?
and then who loses in that contest? (and what's the contest?)

...if i can help one flaining robin unto it's nest again...
i "win" here because i) i'm not handing over money ii) the junior of the officers, who was actually quite reasonable, had her eyes opened to the bullshit. iii) the looks on this cunt's face.. seriously. it was priceless. i have a photo, i'll post it if you want. iv) despite this cunt hiding behind his cool "i am the law bow down and obey" bullshit, upon talking to him, he claimed to be iwi, and i set the cogs spinning in his head about the illegitimacy of the government and that he was enforcing the very "law" that has robbed our whakapapa, kaumatua and tipuna of their rights, lands, air, and food.
again, i opened his eyes to the bullshit.
v) now, i attempt to dislodge the ego-spanner that's jammed in your cogs. whether i win on this one or you lose... i shall not live in vain

6) ((pose unknown threats? that would require them to act on the presumption of guilt, rather than innocence.. that's a slippery slope buddy.))
no it isnt - you have failed to comply with the law its perfectly reasonable to assume that you are hiding something/guilty of something when you chose to break the law instead of doing something as simple as stating your name and D.O.B - something most 5 year olds can do, but you cant?
A)with THEIR law, not mine.
and it IS NOT reasonable.
why should i have to "identify myself" if i) i haven't committed a crime ii) they have no reason to believe i have iii) there is no witness accusing me of such.???

as far as a "name" and "date of birth" go. i don't remember being born. i couldn't possibly attest to the time or place, or circumstance. the only evidence i have that i was born is that i'm alive.
so how can i state something if i have no knowledge of it?

and what is in a name...
okay, i'm called bob.
no? not good enough. you want a "full name" eh? and that ever important d.o.b
so maybe they actually want to link me to say... a person.
for whose benefit would they do that?

7)I think we have found a new contender for the "DB award for arrogance and stupidity".
A) i think this would be summed up brilliantly with:
"where you point the finger, there are three pointing back."
have a good think about the man in the mirror buddy, if this is your attitude/outlook/perspective on life.
it can be so much better.

and i pity the hell out of any kids you've had, or will have. what a sad way to bring a child up.

What a tosser.

[tbs]

you and Akzle tend to line up with the extremes.


How do you figure? I haven't expressed any thoughts on the actions of the Dallas Sherrif's department. All I did was ask a couple of questions and then have a go at knocking down the initial point that most of Akzle's reply to me was based on. Call it an elementary lesson in political philosophy. If your basic premise is bollocks then any argument based on it is also bollocks. I don't go in for trading personal insults, but I am curious to see if a couple of members with extreme views can put forward convincing arguments to support them.

[scumdog]

Azkle - the result of DangerBastard cross-breeding with skism.:yawn:

[scumdog]

Been a while since I was at school, but I think that speed can be calculated over a distance travelled. This can be determined from a video.

Also can be used to prove that the cop had the correct speed, or put you in more shit...

Hmm, I can't see radars being biffed and replaced with video cameras to 'prove' speed in the near future...:oi-grr:

And they would have to 'approved' cameras - not $20 Warehouse Specials

[duckonin]

dont stand under me man...

i reject the parliament because they're a defacto organisation who i don't see benefiting anyone. it has nothing to do with iwi.
i am citizen earth., so are you, so's everyone else.
i claim no rights over anyone else.
my rights are second only to the rights of the creator, call it god, allah, buddha, ganesh, mother earth, jah. call it whatever the fuck you want.
i have been created, as has everyone else. that puts me exactly equal with everyone else. not above, not below. i'm not claiming the right to tell anyone (let alone everyone) how to live.
there are several "laws" i am bound by (as is everyone else) the laws of physics, god's law, common law, natural law. these laws are laws because they are inescapable for everyone,
they're not written down, in fact they're hardly reflected in the legislation of the world governments today.

as outlined several times i dont live in that society. i may be in the land now called "new zealand" and i may live in somewhere that someone has claimed is a "district".
but boundaries only exist in the minds of small men. countries, borders, territory, it's all a bullshit game used to play men off against each other, create division and conflict where there need not be.

i am answerable to the omnipotent entity outlined in my first point. whatever that is. i am answerable to gravity.
i am answerable to myself. (personal responsibility)

i dont need a statute or "rule of law" to give me rights. i am born with rights. natural rights, god given rights. only if someone infringes against them (as the police are wont to do) is there a problem.
these are often called inalienable rights. they are somewhwat reflected in the magna carta, they were reflected in the intent of america's consititution.
they are rights which no man can lawfully or rightfully deprive me of without force.

IF i do harm to another man (it would be by accident, rather than design) then i become indebted to him, or, if i killed the bastard, his family.
i don't like to live in debt.

and no, i don't think the average blow is motivated enough, nor inclined to, revolt.
that's a shame though.

anyone care to have a crack at answering my questions?
isn't red rep so cool, you get to feel like you've had your little stab, and your opinion matters.
why not go vote about it. =D

We live in the year 2012 not 1840 or beyond. Try to move 'your brain' forward into the future. Incidentally, the 'law/cops' do not give a shit about how you look at the world ,for that matter nor do I.:motu:

[Akzle]

yes you are.

a shame your mother didnt swallow.:yawn: isn't it a shame. before the internet only people who were smart enough, or strong enough, could put their opinions forward.


Akzle I think...
holy shit, that was well written.

"I benefit from infrastructure, roading, healthcare, economic policies that attempt to foster trade deals with foreign powers for our financial benefit."

enjoy knowing that if my children are beyond what i can cure that i could take them to a hospital, that's cool.
i don't approve of how they build roads, or maintain them, or police them.
i live on gravel see, and the guys up the road have put 2 fucken driveways in with no drainage, now this has obviously gone through "the apropriate channels" but every time it rains it scours out the fucken road. then they need to put a grader up it, but they only do two passes, and don't go deeper than 2".
this is fucking retarded. and everyone is paying for that retardedness.
now if when the neighbours were building, they had come and said "i want to put a driveway in, want to give me a hand?" i mighta said "yea, sure,, hey we're going to need a drain under this fucking metal to avoid fucking out the road and costing the country for the next few decades"
the constant state of disrepair of most roads in NZ is shocking. the multi (probably billion) dollar highbrook development down auckland, nice new roads, flat, sealed, nice purty lights and concrete curbing... less than a year later they rip the thing up because they forgot to compact it in the first fucking place and it's an industrial zone so they are loaded with 24/7.
WASTE OF FUCKING MONEY.
and the portland intersection, up here, resurfaced a lane going one way, then the one going the other, now they've covered the whole lot but there's a fucking big dip where the chip seal meets the old that is going to get fucked by trucks and constant use (waste of fucking money) they'll be back.

i don't think NZ should be buying into world debt. that's just not fucking clever. i don't think we need to trade that much shit offshore. i sure as shit dont think the government should be putting private corporations rights above people's (eliminating ombudsmen for sold assets, ie, having investors/companies not bound by treaty law, ie, selling legislation for gambling machines, ie...)
what's here's here, and if we flick it all offshore in the name of the mighty dollar (which we don't own, control or really have any say in) and then the world bank turns around and says "oh, your dollar is now only .01 of any other dollar... then fucken what?

i'm not saying there aren't benefits to A society, i AM saying there is a better way, one that doesn't invovle the debt system, one that invovles people working together to achieve common goals.
and i guess that is the crux of difference in opinion. i believe, given the opportunity/ a level playing field (fight club - erase the debt record, we all go back to zero), people would work with and for each other, rather than trying to dominate or overpower others which seems to be your argument.

i can back this up by saying that people study and work to become doctors and nurses (for the public healthcare) which doesn't pay well.. why do they do it? there are police who genuinely believe they are making communities safer (although their loan scheme and pay rate is crippling the economy), why do they do it?
- for the benefit of others.


"Police officers to detain and prosecute the person who stole my car stereo, and then return my property to me."

i would say you're part of a slim majority on this one.


"People who are unable to work and provide for themselves or their families for whatever reason benefit from having systems put in place to see that they are looked after.People who through their own stupidity hurt themselves benefit. Those who are weak and unable to stand up for their own rights benefit."

how about some communism then, "from each according to his ability, to each according to their need"? would that not solve this?


I submit that everyone in society who draws any benefit from organized government in return takes on responsibilities to that government.

i can't disagree, that is the basis of contract law. but what you deem a "benefit" i might deem a "right" - like the right to travel.

yes, there are roads there... so i'll travel on them,
i'm sure society'd rather that than me rolling an abrams in a straight line everywhere.
given the choice though, (free of governance), would we not band together, to get better roads, roads how we want them, where we want them, that are like awesome racetracks and for motorcycles only? would you not put your time and labor towards that?


"Your rights are not absolute."

what are my rights then? as i stand, a man. outside society, not "taking" anything from society. if i cultivate my own land, do no harm to anyone... what are the rights you would allow me?


"People are largely motivated by self interest."

this is our crux. yes, many are (evidinced by the system that exists today) but if those people have to WORK for their food, where would that leave them? if they couldn't just shuffle numbers on computers, "trade dollars" or fleece "money" off everyone, how the fuck would they be?

and if it comes to it, most people will find that their interests require the services of someone else... now whatcha gonna do? (work together to mutual benefit?)


"That is why we have laws written down for everyone to see."

hah! do you know how many "laws" exist here? there's 3000 pages of how they can tax your income, and 7 that's your "bill of rights". the average guy on the street probably couldn't name 10 pieces of legislation, yet he's bound by some thousands.
the average guy who ends up in court has no fucking clue what the "law" is but, that "law" says his ignorance is no excuse... so they conn him into admitting guilt/jurisdiction (acknowledging the "laws") - that are just going to bite his ass (mens rea)

law should not need to be told to anyone, as it exists within us all. there are "laws" that transcend every faith, culture, country, community. they are inherent.
(common law sums them up thus:
1)do no harm to person or property
2)honour your contracts) the bible lists 10, the q'uran 7 etc....
now what law do we need beyond that?

and if you go somewhere else, the laws are different. here, we may only drive at 100km/h, in germany you may drive as fast as you like, in america maybe 80 mile an hour, australia 120km/h - these are not universal, these are different people's answers, given similar situations.


"the wants of the strong will win over the rights of the weak....who will stand up for that child's rights?"

see 1) above - do no harm. everyone will defend that childs rights, simply in the way they live.


"That is just one example of why we need a police force. If you accept that some form of enforcement role is required"

i don't. as above, the rights and responsibilities are in the DNA, the vibrations of the universe, voice of god, heart, calling, faith, whatever.
everyone alive knows right from wrong, (and will have a different variation on the themes)
the classic exemplis is the man who takes a loaf of bread without paying to feed his family.
legislation would tell you he's a thief and needs to be punished, common sense would say he was acting for the benefit of his family (selfless), to whom he has a duty.

my interpretation is that he has created a debt to the creator of that bread, and now must work with him to resolve that debt... maybe he must deliver bread to other families, maybe harvest some wheat... i don't know, what would YOU do?


"We also need to respect that our individual rights can be diminished in the interest of seeing justice done for the greater good of society.... to a reasonable degree of course."

of course. but who's degree is reasonable? (bleeding sarcasm, i accept no minimisation of my inherent rights)
look at societies (for the sake of this argument,societies= cultures and "civilisations") that have placed the value of the group above that of the individual. (think japan, imperialist china, marxism)
and look at cuba, and just how well they do despite sanctions imposed against them by the "world police" (america)

the system that is propped up today is called democracy but is essentially monarchism, as it's only them at the top who actually benefit.

you also use the word justice, i think most would agree that not a lot of that happens in NZ, and even less in or because of the police and court system.


"I agree with them."

i don't


"to then deliberately waste Police time"

i didn't. it would have been my strongest preference to have nothing to do with the police, on that day or any other. i am responsible only for my own actions, not those of the officers. those officers wasted police time, and mine.


why are people so desperate to sumbit to being lead, why do we need the heirachy, the governance.. why can't everyone make good decsions for themselves and their families?

if the government disappeared tomorrow (infrastructure (roads, hospitals etc) remain), and you were paid your take home wages...
would you invest 20 hours a week or 50% of you income, to bring them back?
do you think you could convince 51% of the population to do that? would you keep going to work? for whose benefit?

if they were floated as a limited liability company, would you invest that much in them?



Just as for the name, I recon there shouldnt be much problem in supplying your name to the police if you really dont have anything to fear or hide.
this is a long topic. if you're interested in pursuing it look up capitus diminutio maxima. the NAME/ identity they want you to provide is to create joinder between you as a man (who they have no lawful authority over) and a corporate fiction (interpretation act: person) (created within their "laws" and well standing-under the jurisdiction)
i have no problem telling people my name(s), i do have a problem with the fact that the front line policy enforcement don't know the difference between me as a man and the fiction created to balance their books, they don't understand why they do what they do. so i enlighten them

if you wonder at this, and think that your corporate entity (MR. AKZLE, R. esq.) is you....
why do you have so many numbers assigned? if you are really just called Rob, why not let it be so? instead you have an IRD number (assigned at birth) based on a berth registration (with a number and that ever important date.. on a certificate... kind of like a certificate of incorporation that a company/corporation might get eh?) which you then use to access the fantastic world of commerce. you then beg someone for your rights as you want them (apply=beg, rights generally covered by "licenses")
good system huh? would you pay 50% of your sweat to have it?


But Akzle doesn't have a name. He can't remember choosing it himself, he was only told that's what his name is. He is a child of the earth. That is all.:killingme love it.

((only, i have actually chosen all the names i'm known by.))

[Akzle]

We live in the year 2012 not 1840 or beyond. Try to move 'your brain' forward into the future. Incidentally, the 'law/cops' do not give a shit about how you look at the world ,for that matter nor do I.:motu:
cool story. unfortunately the law governing "police" (the armed constabulary act) was more solid in 1800s than that which exists today. their function was also more beneficial to society as a whole, being that: a) the public VOTED for their constables; b) they were paid BY THE PEOPLE; c) their job was not to gather revenue; d) they assisted people to settle their own problems; e) they dug wells and fixed roads and were generally useful about the place.
i would have happily been an armed constable in 1840 (with a .577 snider rifle :D), i would not want to be a policy enforcement officer today.
and the people who commited crimes got sentenced to labor, which further benefitted society. (rather than costing them a f*ckload, as "remedial" prisons do)

i'm well aware that many people don't care how i look at the world, but it's not for me to dictate how they see the world, i don't see how or why they feel the need to dictate how i should.

and yes. here we are in the roman 2012 (armageddon anyone? age of enlightenment? aquarius? aztecs?)
fucken cool. so what exactly is your point?

[GrayWolf]

1) Its NZ buddy, if you live here, abide by it, or pay the price, its simple. or are you one of these retarded bongas like tame iti who thinks they are entitled to make their own laws? - look where thats landed him
A) actually, i call this land Aotearoa. and there were some people here before white fulla came with his "law" (legislation), who also called this land Aotearoa.
so deflate your ego and set aside your self righteousness for a moment and riddle me this:
if someone has not signed some document, (say, te tiriti o waitangi) and has not agreed to, consented to or voted for, the government to dictate their actions, then how is that government lawful? and is that people bound by that government's laws? force? or do you have another answer?

We can all quote 'history'.. if you also take into account the 'international rule of law for 'unowned land' in the 1800's'... A country that had no sign of cultivation (farming) was considered by said international law to be 'unowned land'.. Under that law, it was the British pre treaty document recognising the 'soveriegn tribes of Aotearoa' that gave the Maori legal ownership, so to speak. Had THAT document never been penned? This discussion about the 'white fulla' would not be happening. However to answer your question as to why a tribe who didnt sign should be held liable/responsible for the law of the land? Twoc simple words.... MAJORITY RULE. That is how the 'highly flawed' democratic process is performed.

3)your attitude wreaks [sic] of that exact sentiment (fuck the police)
A) no. my attitude is exactly this: "if i'm not doing any harm, let me be. if you are not engaging with my to our mutual benefit, don't waste my fucking time." this applies to all people, i don't care what colour their gang's vest is.
The other side of that coin IS: if you are not abiding within the rules of the majority? the majority sees YOU as not acting in a beneficial manner. Interestingly the Maori would use 'SHAMING' as a powerful tool to 'force compliance' within the tribal rules/laws. Now? It has fa less 'power' you can move from Invercargill to Auckland, and leave any 'misdeeds' behind, if you should so choose. So 'let me be' is a sentiment felt by many many people, just learn to play the game and its surprising how much laxity CAN be found within our system. if you think what you have here is unjust? As many Maori like to quote history as a proof? Look at people like Stalin he actually made Hitler look like a schoolboy for mass murder of any he saw as a dissident/undesirable. The fact you can even come to KB and freely speak your thoughts? Says volumes for the positives of this 'suppressive' society.

who's winning? why does someone need to win?
and then who loses in that contest? (and what's the contest?) Sadly many can only see a win situation, when they are being a dick, The fact they live IN a regeime that allows them to be a dick escapes them. Try many of the South American countries, or Spain, or Eastern European countries.. and see what happens when you act a dick towards their Police forces.


i "win" here because i) i'm not handing over money ii) the junior of the officers, who was actually quite reasonable, had her eyes opened to the bullshit. iii) the looks on this cunt's face.. seriously. it was priceless. i have a photo, i'll post it if you want. iv) despite this cunt hiding behind his cool "i am the law bow down and obey" bullshit, upon talking to him, he claimed to be iwi, and i set the cogs spinning in his head about the illegitimacy of the government and that he was enforcing the very "law" that has robbed our whakapapa, kaumatua and tipuna of their rights, lands, air, and food. As a foreigner here, I am highly appreciative of what this country has given me and as an interest I did read on the treaty, past history etc. As for an illegitimate govt? methinks you've been listening to tama, Ken maire, etc for too long. Yes there were many injustices done, and similar ones are being done today. The FACT you can argue these injustices, AND gain compense for them is due to the 'illegitimate regeime's laws. So as for the look on the guy's face over the bullshit? Are you sure it wasnt a look about the bullpaki he was listening to?
again, i opened his eyes to the bullshit.

6) ((pose unknown threats? that would require them to act on the presumption of guilt, rather than innocence.. that's a slippery slope buddy.))
no it isnt - you have failed to comply with the law its perfectly reasonable to assume that you are hiding something/guilty of something when you chose to break the law instead of doing something as simple as stating your name and D.O.B - something most 5 year olds can do, but you cant?
A)with THEIR law, not mine.
and it IS NOT reasonable.
why should i have to "identify myself" if i) i haven't committed a crime ii) they have no reason to believe i have iii) there is no witness accusing me of such.???
Damn this is an old chestnut, simple really, those that cry wolf over being stopped for identity, are often the first ones to grizzle if they get robbed/attacked that the Police 'knew' said felon was in the area but didnt keep tabs on him/her. C'mon as i younger man in the UK, I woure the leather jacket, camo' pants, boots, beanie, beard of the typical 'biker' and also had the 'fuck you for stopping me for no reason attitude'... funny thing is? Now I dress 'normal'? and still do the same things I did then. Only time I get 'pulled', is on a breath test or traffic stop.

as far as a "name" and "date of birth" go. i don't remember being born. i couldn't possibly attest to the time or place, or circumstance. the only evidence i have that i was born is that i'm alive.
so how can i state something if i have no knowledge of it? C'mon even you dont really expect us to fall for that distorted arguement?

and what is in a name...
okay, i'm called bob.
no? not good enough. you want a "full name" eh? and that ever important d.o.b
so maybe they actually want to link me to say... a person. those very same records you dislike, carry the record of a person's offences etc, or non offending... I would picture the tirade you'd spew here if your life was impacted again with the police 'accepting' my name is bob smith on face value in the street and 'bob smith' turned out to be a burglar/murderer/rapist who 30 minutes later affected YOUR life
for whose benefit would they do that?
.

10 characters

[Muppet]

:yawn: isn't it a shame. before the internet only people who were smart enough, or strong enough, could put their opinions forward.


holy shit, that was well written.

"I benefit from infrastructure, roading, healthcare, economic policies that attempt to foster trade deals with foreign powers for our financial benefit."

enjoy knowing that if my children are beyond what i can cure that i could take them to a hospital, that's cool.
i don't approve of how they build roads, or maintain them, or police them.
i live on gravel see, and the guys up the road have put 2 fucken driveways in with no drainage, now this has obviously gone through "the apropriate channels" but every time it rains it scours out the fucken road. then they need to put a grader up it, but they only do two passes, and don't go deeper than 2".
this is fucking retarded. and everyone is paying for that retardedness.
now if when the neighbours were building, they had come and said "i want to put a driveway in, want to give me a hand?" i mighta said "yea, sure,, hey we're going to need a drain under this fucking metal to avoid fucking out the road and costing the country for the next few decades"
the constant state of disrepair of most roads in NZ is shocking. the multi (probably billion) dollar highbrook development down auckland, nice new roads, flat, sealed, nice purty lights and concrete curbing... less than a year later they rip the thing up because they forgot to compact it in the first fucking place and it's an industrial zone so they are loaded with 24/7.
WASTE OF FUCKING MONEY.
and the portland intersection, up here, resurfaced a lane going one way, then the one going the other, now they've covered the whole lot but there's a fucking big dip where the chip seal meets the old that is going to get fucked by trucks and constant use (waste of fucking money) they'll be back.

i don't think NZ should be buying into world debt. that's just not fucking clever. i don't think we need to trade that much shit offshore. i sure as shit dont think the government should be putting private corporations rights above people's (eliminating ombudsmen for sold assets, ie, having investors/companies not bound by treaty law, ie, selling legislation for gambling machines, ie...)
what's here's here, and if we flick it all offshore in the name of the mighty dollar (which we don't own, control or really have any say in) and then the world bank turns around and says "oh, your dollar is now only .01 of any other dollar... then fucken what?

i'm not saying there aren't benefits to A society, i AM saying there is a better way, one that doesn't invovle the debt system, one that invovles people working together to achieve common goals.
and i guess that is the crux of difference in opinion. i believe, given the opportunity/ a level playing field (fight club - erase the debt record, we all go back to zero), people would work with and for each other, rather than trying to dominate or overpower others which seems to be your argument.

i can back this up by saying that people study and work to become doctors and nurses (for the public healthcare) which doesn't pay well.. why do they do it? there are police who genuinely believe they are making communities safer (although their loan scheme and pay rate is crippling the economy), why do they do it?
- for the benefit of others.


"Police officers to detain and prosecute the person who stole my car stereo, and then return my property to me."

i would say you're part of a slim majority on this one.


"People who are unable to work and provide for themselves or their families for whatever reason benefit from having systems put in place to see that they are looked after.People who through their own stupidity hurt themselves benefit. Those who are weak and unable to stand up for their own rights benefit."

how about some communism then, "from each according to his ability, to each according to their need"? would that not solve this?


I submit that everyone in society who draws any benefit from organized government in return takes on responsibilities to that government.

i can't disagree, that is the basis of contract law. but what you deem a "benefit" i might deem a "right" - like the right to travel.

yes, there are roads there... so i'll travel on them,
i'm sure society'd rather that than me rolling an abrams in a straight line everywhere.
given the choice though, (free of governance), would we not band together, to get better roads, roads how we want them, where we want them, that are like awesome racetracks and for motorcycles only? would you not put your time and labor towards that?


"Your rights are not absolute."

what are my rights then? as i stand, a man. outside society, not "taking" anything from society. if i cultivate my own land, do no harm to anyone... what are the rights you would allow me?


"People are largely motivated by self interest."

this is our crux. yes, many are (evidinced by the system that exists today) but if those people have to WORK for their food, where would that leave them? if they couldn't just shuffle numbers on computers, "trade dollars" or fleece "money" off everyone, how the fuck would they be?

and if it comes to it, most people will find that their interests require the services of someone else... now whatcha gonna do? (work together to mutual benefit?)


"That is why we have laws written down for everyone to see."

hah! do you know how many "laws" exist here? there's 3000 pages of how they can tax your income, and 7 that's your "bill of rights". the average guy on the street probably couldn't name 10 pieces of legislation, yet he's bound by some thousands.
the average guy who ends up in court has no fucking clue what the "law" is but, that "law" says his ignorance is no excuse... so they conn him into admitting guilt/jurisdiction (acknowledging the "laws") - that are just going to bite his ass (mens rea)

law should not need to be told to anyone, as it exists within us all. there are "laws" that transcend every faith, culture, country, community. they are inherent.
(common law sums them up thus:
1)do no harm to person or property
2)honour your contracts) the bible lists 10, the q'uran 7 etc....
now what law do we need beyond that?

and if you go somewhere else, the laws are different. here, we may only drive at 100km/h, in germany you may drive as fast as you like, in america maybe 80 mile an hour, australia 120km/h - these are not universal, these are different people's answers, given similar situations.


"the wants of the strong will win over the rights of the weak....who will stand up for that child's rights?"

see 1) above - do no harm. everyone will defend that childs rights, simply in the way they live.


"That is just one example of why we need a police force. If you accept that some form of enforcement role is required"

i don't. as above, the rights and responsibilities are in the DNA, the vibrations of the universe, voice of god, heart, calling, faith, whatever.
everyone alive knows right from wrong, (and will have a different variation on the themes)
the classic exemplis is the man who takes a loaf of bread without paying to feed his family.
legislation would tell you he's a thief and needs to be punished, common sense would say he was acting for the benefit of his family (selfless), to whom he has a duty.

my interpretation is that he has created a debt to the creator of that bread, and now must work with him to resolve that debt... maybe he must deliver bread to other families, maybe harvest some wheat... i don't know, what would YOU do?


"We also need to respect that our individual rights can be diminished in the interest of seeing justice done for the greater good of society.... to a reasonable degree of course."

of course. but who's degree is reasonable? (bleeding sarcasm, i accept no minimisation of my inherent rights)
look at societies (for the sake of this argument,societies= cultures and "civilisations") that have placed the value of the group above that of the individual. (think japan, imperialist china, marxism)
and look at cuba, and just how well they do despite sanctions imposed against them by the "world police" (america)

the system that is propped up today is called democracy but is essentially monarchism, as it's only them at the top who actually benefit.

you also use the word justice, i think most would agree that not a lot of that happens in NZ, and even less in or because of the police and court system.


"I agree with them."

i don't


"to then deliberately waste Police time"

i didn't. it would have been my strongest preference to have nothing to do with the police, on that day or any other. i am responsible only for my own actions, not those of the officers. those officers wasted police time, and mine.


why are people so desperate to sumbit to being lead, why do we need the heirachy, the governance.. why can't everyone make good decsions for themselves and their families?

if the government disappeared tomorrow (infrastructure (roads, hospitals etc) remain), and you were paid your take home wages...
would you invest 20 hours a week or 50% of you income, to bring them back?
do you think you could convince 51% of the population to do that? would you keep going to work? for whose benefit?

if they were floated as a limited liability company, would you invest that much in them?



this is a long topic. if you're interested in pursuing it look up capitus diminutio maxima. the NAME/ identity they want you to provide is to create joinder between you as a man (who they have no lawful authority over) and a corporate fiction (interpretation act: person) (created within their "laws" and well standing-under the jurisdiction)
i have no problem telling people my name(s), i do have a problem with the fact that the front line policy enforcement don't know the difference between me as a man and the fiction created to balance their books, they don't understand why they do what they do. so i enlighten them

if you wonder at this, and think that your corporate entity (MR. AKZLE, R. esq.) is you....
why do you have so many numbers assigned? if you are really just called Rob, why not let it be so? instead you have an IRD number (assigned at birth) based on a berth registration (with a number and that ever important date.. on a certificate... kind of like a certificate of incorporation that a company/corporation might get eh?) which you then use to access the fantastic world of commerce. you then beg someone for your rights as you want them (apply=beg, rights generally covered by "licenses")
good system huh? would you pay 50% of your sweat to have it?

:killingme love it.

((only, i have actually chosen all the names i'm known by.))

My god you must be bored. Why don't you just give yourself a weird name like the Wizard of Christchurch and spend your whole life avoiding the 'system' and do fuck all. I think country folk would refer to you as 'the local eccentric'.

[Muppet]

Hmm, I can't see radars being biffed and replaced with video cameras to 'prove' speed in the near future...:oi-grr:

And they would have to 'approved' cameras - not $20 Warehouse Specials

You're right of course scummy. Imagine turning up to a JP fixture with a Warehouse camera..."Yes your worships, Police will prove they used a cheap 'n' nasty camera made in China to prove the the defendant Mr Akzle was doing 200 km/h on his Monkey bike":killingme

[Akzle]

"We can all quote 'history'.. if you also take into account the 'international rule of law for 'unowned land' in the 1800's'... A country that had no sign of cultivation (farming)..."

again this all comes down to "white guys law" -international law, or more likely admiralty law, is still white-guy controlling others. usually by deceit. it doesn't come from on high (god)
...even the christian ruse was used a system to control the peasanty and suppress the pagans (usually black) and shift the mindset from pagan beliefs (recognising earth mother, working with the world, generaly maternal/feminine) to christian ones (bow down before a man who has been bestowed with some authority (over your mortal soul?) masculine, authoritarian, paternal)
the end result is a fuck up. the solution is balance.

have a look at some old statute, the wording is (a lot more brief) but concise and to the point. for example look to the historic (english) legislation against "mischief" (which has the definition "to render a man incapable of fighting, ie breaking fingers or gouging eyes") it's really simple. don't do it.

cause harm = make remedy. end of. not pay fines to the courts or state... fix your fucking problem.

taxation and levies are of course another matter all together (and illegal, by some decree of some king at osme time or another)

asides from that, i'm only looking to the past to establish what i consider to be right, and has worked, and compare it to today and work out ho to move forward positively.


"MAJORITY RULE. That is how the 'highly flawed' democratic process is performed."


"Interestingly the Maori would use 'SHAMING' as a powerful tool to 'force compliance' within the tribal rules/laws."

i'm all up for this. tarring-featherings, pillories, tatooing people, castration in some cases, chopping off hands, public hangings... bring it on.
for someone who HAS COMMITTED HARM AGAINST SOMEONE ELSE AND MADE NO ATTEMPT AT REMEDY, i accept punishment as valid, and it should represent the crime.


"'let me be' is a sentiment felt by many many people, just learn to play the game and its surprising how much laxity CAN be found within our system."

i do, can. but that's asides the point. when our duly-elected-representative-socialist-government decides that all bikers have to wear pink arm bands all the time... then what.
it's a short march to the camps.

yes, one can scam the system, one can lay low an not bring attention to themselves (as i most often do) and one can smile politely as they bend over the barrel for the system. i choose not to.


"you think what you have here is unjust?... Try many of the South American countries, or Spain, or Eastern European countries.. and see what happens when you act a dick towards their Police forces."

whoopdee shit, someone has it worse than NZers. is that supposed to make me feel better about humanity? what are you doing to help those people? to elevate the plebians? control their governments? what are you doing about the "world-powers" that have knowingly or at least by acquiescence caused so much disparity and suffering the world over? what are you doing about the 4000. FOUR FUCKING THOUSAND. children that die every hour because they don't have enough to eat, while world-police are dropping billions in munitions, wasting the planet, consuming fucken everything. (and throwing out some tonnage of food DAILY that would probably feed africa for a month)

you know how much a billion is? it's 1, 000, 000, 000, 000 dollars. will you even handle a billion dollars over your lifetime? (google "us debt problem visualised, kleptocracy") that kind of money just doesn't fucking exist. it means nothing.

keep driving to work man. keep the fucking blinkers on. git yo money, pay yo tax. keep yo fucken head down cos goddamn you'd hate to have think beyond this good and just "society".
(the "society" that signed you, your wife, kids, parents, grandparents and probably grandkids up for 40, 000$ of debt EACH)

it starts at home mann. never mind "new zealand society" what about "world society"?


"As for an illegitimate govt? methinks you've been listening to tama, Ken maire, etc for too long."

the NZ government was not constitutionally formed. it does not, never did, have the consent of the people. (google: "constitutional timebomb, hidden mysteries")


"Yes there were many injustices done, and similar ones are being done today. The FACT you can argue these injustices..."

as above. why is that level of "injustice" acceptable to anyone??


"So as for the look on the guy's face over the bullshit? Are you sure it wasnt a look about the bullpaki he was listening to?"

he may have dismissed it, as you are trying to as bullshit, but the fact that he's thinking about it, as you are, is the end of my responsibility.
you believe differently to me, cool, you have an opinion, cool. you're standing up for your beliefs. cool.
just don't try and force your beliefs on me.
"religion is like a penis. i don't care if you have one, just don't try putting it down my throat."


"...if they get robbed/attacked that the Police 'knew' said felon was in the area but didnt keep tabs on him/her."

i really dont see how this makes sense. even in your head.
so the cops have the authority to randomly detain and question anyone assumed or known to have criminal intent....?
and if someone with criminal intent does identify themselves as such... shouldn't the cops be doing something else?


"'fuck you for stopping me for no reason attitude'... funny thing is? Now I dress 'normal'? and still do the same things I did then. Only time I get 'pulled', is on a breath test or traffic stop."

i don't consider either of those lawful either. again. they rely on the presumed guilt, and you have to submit your DNA to their jurisdiction to prove that you're not guilty. that's drag-netting. it's bad for the environment.
and i never have a "fuck you" attitude to them initially, if i develop one, it's entirely because of how they have acted and applies only to that cop, on that day.


"C'mon even you dont really expect us to fall for that distorted arguement?"

how is it distorted? you are asking me to swear as fact and truth, that the details on a certificate which i didn't have anything to do with making are correct?

i know what got recorded on my daugther's berth certificate. (delivered at home)
born at 11:58 (two, miniiiiiitss, to miiiiiidniiiight!)
but as to even the fact of that.... fuck. maybe she was actually born the day after? maybe she's a different star sign? maybe she's a day younger? maybe i forgot to set my clock back for daylight savings? i can't even attest to that as a fact, and i had a hand in it...

[Akzle]

My god you must be bored. Why don't you just give yourself a weird name like the Wizard of Christchurch and spend your whole avoiding the 'system' and do fuck all. I think country folk would refer to you as 'the local eccentric'.
i see you've read my master plan.:blink: (:beer:)

((but i don't live in christchurch!))

[unstuck]

i see you've read my master plan.:blink: (:beer:)

((but i don't live in christchurch!))



You could be the wizard of Oakleigh.;)

[GrayWolf]

i see you've read my master plan.:blink: (:beer:)

((but i don't live in christchurch!))




You could be the wizard of Oakleigh.;)

Hell no, Weve got the fluid Druid on Stewart Island, the Wizard of Chch, and we've had the Wizard of Oz......
There's only one name for this guy, the Wizard of Nod, by the time you've either read or listened to his rhetoric? ya fast asleep...:yawn::brick:

[Muppet]

i see you've read my master plan.:blink: (:beer:)

((but i don't live in christchurch!))



Well at least you have a sense of humour, can we talk bikes now?

[scumdog]

:yawn: isn't it a shame. before the internet only people who were smart enough, or strong enough, could put their opinions forward.


holy shit, that was well written.

"I benefit from infrastructure, roading, healthcare, economic policies that attempt to foster trade deals with foreign powers for our financial benefit."

enjoy knowing that if my children are beyond what i can cure that i could take them to a hospital, that's cool.
i don't approve of how they build roads, or maintain them, or police them.
i live on gravel see, and the guys up the road have put 2 fucken driveways in with no drainage, now this has obviously gone through "the apropriate channels" but every time it rains it scours out the fucken road. then they need to put a grader up it, but they only do two passes, and don't go deeper than 2".
this is fucking retarded. and everyone is paying for that retardedness.
now if when the neighbours were building, they had come and said "i want to put a driveway in, want to give me a hand?" i mighta said "yea, sure,, hey we're going to need a drain under this fucking metal to avoid fucking out the road and costing the country for the next few decades"
the constant state of disrepair of most roads in NZ is shocking. the multi (probably billion) dollar highbrook development down auckland, nice new roads, flat, sealed, nice purty lights and concrete curbing... less than a year later they rip the thing up because they forgot to compact it in the first fucking place and it's an industrial zone so they are loaded with 24/7.
WASTE OF FUCKING MONEY.
and the portland intersection, up here, resurfaced a lane going one way, then the one going the other, now they've covered the whole lot but there's a fucking big dip where the chip seal meets the old that is going to get fucked by trucks and constant use (waste of fucking money) they'll be back.

i don't think NZ should be buying into world debt. that's just not fucking clever. i don't think we need to trade that much shit offshore. i sure as shit dont think the government should be putting private corporations rights above people's (eliminating ombudsmen for sold assets, ie, having investors/companies not bound by treaty law, ie, selling legislation for gambling machines, ie...)
what's here's here, and if we flick it all offshore in the name of the mighty dollar (which we don't own, control or really have any say in) and then the world bank turns around and says "oh, your dollar is now only .01 of any other dollar... then fucken what?

i'm not saying there aren't benefits to A society, i AM saying there is a better way, one that doesn't invovle the debt system, one that invovles people working together to achieve common goals.
and i guess that is the crux of difference in opinion. i believe, given the opportunity/ a level playing field (fight club - erase the debt record, we all go back to zero), people would work with and for each other, rather than trying to dominate or overpower others which seems to be your argument.

i can back this up by saying that people study and work to become doctors and nurses (for the public healthcare) which doesn't pay well.. why do they do it? there are police who genuinely believe they are making communities safer (although their loan scheme and pay rate is crippling the economy), why do they do it?
- for the benefit of others.


"Police officers to detain and prosecute the person who stole my car stereo, and then return my property to me."

i would say you're part of a slim majority on this one.


"People who are unable to work and provide for themselves or their families for whatever reason benefit from having systems put in place to see that they are looked after.People who through their own stupidity hurt themselves benefit. Those who are weak and unable to stand up for their own rights benefit."

how about some communism then, "from each according to his ability, to each according to their need"? would that not solve this?


I submit that everyone in society who draws any benefit from organized government in return takes on responsibilities to that government.

i can't disagree, that is the basis of contract law. but what you deem a "benefit" i might deem a "right" - like the right to travel.

yes, there are roads there... so i'll travel on them,
i'm sure society'd rather that than me rolling an abrams in a straight line everywhere.
given the choice though, (free of governance), would we not band together, to get better roads, roads how we want them, where we want them, that are like awesome racetracks and for motorcycles only? would you not put your time and labor towards that?


"Your rights are not absolute."

what are my rights then? as i stand, a man. outside society, not "taking" anything from society. if i cultivate my own land, do no harm to anyone... what are the rights you would allow me?


"People are largely motivated by self interest."

this is our crux. yes, many are (evidinced by the system that exists today) but if those people have to WORK for their food, where would that leave them? if they couldn't just shuffle numbers on computers, "trade dollars" or fleece "money" off everyone, how the fuck would they be?

and if it comes to it, most people will find that their interests require the services of someone else... now whatcha gonna do? (work together to mutual benefit?)


"That is why we have laws written down for everyone to see."

hah! do you know how many "laws" exist here? there's 3000 pages of how they can tax your income, and 7 that's your "bill of rights". the average guy on the street probably couldn't name 10 pieces of legislation, yet he's bound by some thousands.
the average guy who ends up in court has no fucking clue what the "law" is but, that "law" says his ignorance is no excuse... so they conn him into admitting guilt/jurisdiction (acknowledging the "laws") - that are just going to bite his ass (mens rea)

law should not need to be told to anyone, as it exists within us all. there are "laws" that transcend every faith, culture, country, community. they are inherent.
(common law sums them up thus:
1)do no harm to person or property
2)honour your contracts) the bible lists 10, the q'uran 7 etc....
now what law do we need beyond that?

and if you go somewhere else, the laws are different. here, we may only drive at 100km/h, in germany you may drive as fast as you like, in america maybe 80 mile an hour, australia 120km/h - these are not universal, these are different people's answers, given similar situations.


"the wants of the strong will win over the rights of the weak....who will stand up for that child's rights?"

see 1) above - do no harm. everyone will defend that childs rights, simply in the way they live.


"That is just one example of why we need a police force. If you accept that some form of enforcement role is required"

i don't. as above, the rights and responsibilities are in the DNA, the vibrations of the universe, voice of god, heart, calling, faith, whatever.
everyone alive knows right from wrong, (and will have a different variation on the themes)
the classic exemplis is the man who takes a loaf of bread without paying to feed his family.
legislation would tell you he's a thief and needs to be punished, common sense would say he was acting for the benefit of his family (selfless), to whom he has a duty.

my interpretation is that he has created a debt to the creator of that bread, and now must work with him to resolve that debt... maybe he must deliver bread to other families, maybe harvest some wheat... i don't know, what would YOU do?


"We also need to respect that our individual rights can be diminished in the interest of seeing justice done for the greater good of society.... to a reasonable degree of course."

of course. but who's degree is reasonable? (bleeding sarcasm, i accept no minimisation of my inherent rights)
look at societies (for the sake of this argument,societies= cultures and "civilisations") that have placed the value of the group above that of the individual. (think japan, imperialist china, marxism)
and look at cuba, and just how well they do despite sanctions imposed against them by the "world police" (america)

the system that is propped up today is called democracy but is essentially monarchism, as it's only them at the top who actually benefit.

you also use the word justice, i think most would agree that not a lot of that happens in NZ, and even less in or because of the police and court system.


"I agree with them."

i don't


"to then deliberately waste Police time"

i didn't. it would have been my strongest preference to have nothing to do with the police, on that day or any other. i am responsible only for my own actions, not those of the officers. those officers wasted police time, and mine.


why are people so desperate to sumbit to being lead, why do we need the heirachy, the governance.. why can't everyone make good decsions for themselves and their families?

if the government disappeared tomorrow (infrastructure (roads, hospitals etc) remain), and you were paid your take home wages...
would you invest 20 hours a week or 50% of you income, to bring them back?
do you think you could convince 51% of the population to do that? would you keep going to work? for whose benefit?

if they were floated as a limited liability company, would you invest that much in them?



this is a long topic. if you're interested in pursuing it look up capitus diminutio maxima. the NAME/ identity they want you to provide is to create joinder between you as a man (who they have no lawful authority over) and a corporate fiction (interpretation act: person) (created within their "laws" and well standing-under the jurisdiction)
i have no problem telling people my name(s), i do have a problem with the fact that the front line policy enforcement don't know the difference between me as a man and the fiction created to balance their books, they don't understand why they do what they do. so i enlighten them

if you wonder at this, and think that your corporate entity (MR. AKZLE, R. esq.) is you....
why do you have so many numbers assigned? if you are really just called Rob, why not let it be so? instead you have an IRD number (assigned at birth) based on a berth registration (with a number and that ever important date.. on a certificate... kind of like a certificate of incorporation that a company/corporation might get eh?) which you then use to access the fantastic world of commerce. you then beg someone for your rights as you want them (apply=beg, rights generally covered by "licenses")
good system huh? would you pay 50% of your sweat to have it?

:killingme love it.



((only, i have actually chosen all the names i'm known by.))


Great snappin duck-turds, anybody else bother to read that screamin green river of codswollop???:wacko::sick:







(Sheesh, the poor keyboard, life expectancy 15% that of the average keyboard...)

[Flip]

No

To many big words in there for me.

Who the fuck lives on a gravel road, only red neck hill-billies.

[Akzle]

Great snappin duck-turds, anybody else bother to read that screamin green river of codswollop???
nope. you?

[scumdog]

nope. you?

Nah, never figured out how one was meant to read a screamin green river of codswollop - otherwise I wouldn't have asked...

[tbs]

Akzle your method of reasoning reminds me of a scatter-bomb. It spreads out wide and causes a whole bunch of irritation and confusion without actually doing any damage to whatever point you are arguing against. Lots of extreme irrelevancy and use of the straw-man technique, (extrapolating an argument from a point someone else made, and then knocking down your own argument while leaving the original untouched.) You rather deftly contradict yourself in support of your own points, and you make wildly inaccurate empirical claims and then build entire arguments on them. Like I said to someone else, if your initial point is bollocks, then everything you add to that bollocks is still bollocks. You then ask lots of irrelevant questions and I suspect will at a later time complain that your questions have not been answered in a bid to keep in sowing confusion.
Simply put, you act you can win an argument by talking so much crap that everyone else gives up in despair. I don't think you appreciate just how much courtesy I'm extending to you by not just writing you off as a loony and moving on.

Please just explain (without going off on any tangents please) your basis for believing that people will work together for common good if given a chance. Based on everything I have learned from history this could never possibly happen. If there is a power vacuum someone will ALWAYS turn up to fill it. People will always be ruled either by a minority, or a majority. The general thrust of you argument so far has been for anarchy... take off the restraints and we will all just pull together to get along, but the examples you gave to support not accepting any minimization of your inherent rights were of authoritarian minority governments. Give me one example, just one where anarchy has worked. Maybe you could start by explaining how it would stop someone from breaking into your house and stealing your guns.

Oh and by the way, common law is written down. It is based on case law. Stuff that has already been decided by the recognized authority of the court system then becomes precedent. See, you contradicted yourself.

[Tony.OK]

Where's the Pointless Dribble popo when ya need 'em? :wacko:

[kiwi cowboy]

No

To many big words in there for me.

Who the fuck lives on a gravel road, only red neck hill-billies.

:motu::motu::motu:I wiv on a gabrile rod ya mint ta com sey dat ta ma fece hill billy my arse:angry:

[kiwi cowboy]

Great snappin duck-turds, anybody else bother to read that screamin green river of codswollop???:wacko::sick:







(Sheesh, the poor keyboard, life expectancy 15% that of the average keyboard...)

Nope but you asked if anybody else did so i assume you did so ya want to compress what was said onto a short read so the reat of us dont have to take a week off work to get through it all.

[MIXONE]

Great snappin duck-turds, anybody else bother to read that screamin green river of codswollop???:wacko::sick:







(Sheesh, the poor keyboard, life expectancy 15% that of the average keyboard...)

Fuck my attention span isn't that big.:eek5:

[The Pastor]

Love this thread, Akzle, I dont agree with what you are saying, but im enjoying reading it. (and im not going to call you names (what are we 5?) because you have a different philosophy than I, (tbh, its not that different...)

[Akzle]

...
Oh and by the way, common law is written down. It is based on case law. Stuff that has already been decided by the recognized authority of the court system then becomes precedent.
oh you honor me with your courtesy!

i don't care if you read it or not, or if you believe it or not. i encourage thinking for yourself. i offer my mind of things, i provide the bases that you may search from, should you care to.

but i thought we were doing the whole "irrelevant things that aren't actually related to the case at hand" thing... i got the idea when you started bringing up history and maori and shit.

common law is not written down. case law is seperate from common law.

straw-man means something entirely different to me.

my basis is that i'm not a cynical cunt and believe in the inherent good of teh universe.

has ever before in your history, there been a conscious, unilateral-universally level playing field?
(no) your preposition is entirely speculative.
"so there has been before, so it must be yet..."
not the case.
this wee thing about evolution.

and you're right, i don't believe any of my questions have been answered.


FUCK, what was the original question? ><!

( i believe my original point was that the government, and thus anything arising from it's existence is illegitimate)

[unstuck]

Fuck, all that green just makes me want to smoke more weed.:doobey:

[Berries]

i don't care if you read it or not, or if you believe it or not. i encourage thinking for yourself. i offer my mind of things, i provide the bases that you may search from, should you care to.
Hmm. Beginning to sound a bit like edbear.

[scumdog]

Hmm. Beginning to sound a bit like edbear.

Only a tad more long winded...

[scracha]

Fuck, all that green just makes me want to smoke more weed.:doobey:

Umm....I'm kinda in agreement with Akzle.

Most of us don't agree with the idiots running this country.
Most of us don't agree with our money going off shore.
Most of us don't agree with our country being sold off.
Most of us break the law/are technically criminals so how did our laws come about ? (be it speeding, weed, tax dodging, not registering dog etc etc).....


I don't agree with the whole debt / free trade cycle.
I know that fiat currencies just can't last.
I know that the law is not designed for us (plebeians).

In general, people have a "comfort zone". If they can kinda keep up with the Joneses, have a perception of safety and comforts, then they don't rock the boat. The minority in charge know this.

Most of us are serfs with flashy plastic/silicon gadgets (designed to placate us, monitor us or make us more productive) and vehicles (designed to placa.......). Look up the definition of "serf" if you don't believe me.

[Edbear]

oh you honor me with your courtesy!

i don't care if you read it or not, or if you believe it or not. i encourage thinking for yourself. i offer my mind of things, i provide the bases that you may search from, should you care to.

but i thought we were doing the whole "irrelevant things that aren't actually related to the case at hand" thing... i got the idea when you started bringing up history and maori and shit.

common law is not written down. case law is seperate from common law.

straw-man means something entirely different to me.

my basis is that i'm not a cynical cunt and believe in the inherent good of teh universe.

has ever before in your history, there been a conscious, unilateral-universally level playing field?
(no) your preposition is entirely speculative.
"so there has been before, so it must be yet..."
not the case.
this wee thing about evolution.

and you're right, i don't believe any of my questions have been answered.


FUCK, what was the original question? ><!

( i believe my original point was that the government, and thus anything arising from it's existence is illegitimate)




Define Government

[tbs]

as outlined several times i dont live in that society. i may be in the land now called "new zealand" and i may live in somewhere that someone has claimed is a "district".
but boundaries only exist in the minds of small men. countries, borders, territory, it's all a bullshit game used to play men off against each other, create division and conflict where there need not be.



Sorry about the extending you courtesy comment. That probably came across way more arrogant than it was meant, but it is damn hard to follow your lines of reasoning sometimes, for the reasons already outlined.

Now, about the above quote, I wonder how your Kaumatua would feel about this idea? As I understand it, the boundaries of a Marae are clearly defined, and it would constitute a massive breach of protocol to enter someone else's Marae uninvited. Am I correct or does that boundary exist only in the minds of small men?



"Interestingly the Maori would use 'SHAMING' as a powerful tool to 'force compliance' within the tribal rules/laws."

i'm all up for this. tarring-featherings, pillories, tatooing people, castration in some cases, chopping off hands, public hangings... bring it on.
for someone who HAS COMMITTED HARM AGAINST SOMEONE ELSE AND MADE NO ATTEMPT AT REMEDY, i accept punishment as valid, and it should represent the crime.


Who would you trust to decide who is guilty of harming someone else without attempt at remedy, and then to administer appropriate punishment? If those entrusted with that authority needed to ask a bunch of nosey questions in the course of their investigations, would you cooperate?





Alright, I know we are way off original topic, but I'm finding this amusing. Anyway I think we all basically agree that the bikers were acting like pricks, and the cop acted way outside his jurisdiction.... which was stupid anyway. America has the same laws about admissibility of evidence that we do. Any evidence illegally obtained can't be used against you in court.

[actungbaby]

your so right there buddy imagine if guys on here that so anti police had bikes stolen they be like crying oh my bike my bike
talk about bunch idiots riding like morons probley go on to drive cars like that as well end up hurting some biker people like this dont stick with bikes



In NZ Failure to provide a Police officer with you name and address is enough to have you locked up. So Go for it and remain silent, no skin off my nose.
You clowns should not be allowed to ride motorised vehicles of any sort.
Watch the vid.The officer ignored many other offences in his careful pursuit of the guy he stopped, no one was hurt except the dick with the helmet cams ego.
Then to read some of the posts on the vids commets line, wow.
I don't suspect, I know, if any one of you keyboard warriors were ever in trouble you'd be hollering for our boys in blue pretty quick smart, if any one of you did what these wallies on bikes did you'd expect to go down, wouldn't you?
Grow up!
Get off our roads and make em safer and pleasanter for those of us who ride with no expectation of being picked on and don't give other motorists cause to Hate bikers.

[jasonu]

I actually just moved to NZ from Chicago in the last few years. In Illinois (state where Chicago is located) Helmets aren't even compulsory. My sisters an ER doctor there still, where bikers are known as "organ donors".

The problem is the way bikes are perceived over there. They're basically seen as toys or fashion statements by mostly young males. There's no licensing restrictions t all, and shit I read somewhere that something like 85% of motorcyclists in the states don't even have a license. There's almost no training programs, and because bikes are SO CHEAP back home (You can get a gently used 3 year old GXSR for under 5k. Theyre like 8 brand new) there's little incentive to take care of it or yourself really.

It just boils down to the sort of people buying them. Because the weather is shit over there 90% of the time, you dont see anyone buying them for regular transport like you do here. People buy a motorcycle because they want to go fast and look cool. Doesn't lend itself to safe, responsible riding.

Mate what planet are you from? That is the biggest load of twaddle I havwe read on KB for quite a while.

[Akzle]

Fuck, all that green just makes me want to smoke more weed.:doobey:all this weed makes me want to write more geen :doobey: :D


Umm....I'm kinda in agreement with Akzle....
most people are, as you said.
and most people are ignorant of the law and the difference between that and legislation.
most people go on to whinge about how they voted for the green/red/blue but it didn't work, and shit's still fucked, without then making the link to the fact that it's the system causing most of the problems, not the participants.
most people grumble through life. i choose differently.

politicians are fucking clever. slick as shit. you think they don't know what's going on?
unfortunately, unlike finance companies, the leaders of countries are not often called to account. (300 hours community service for shon key, for fucking the economy... hah) someone quoted the apathy of the populace, i'd say they're on the money.


Define Government
nah. you.


((to me, the government is actually the manifestation of a collective sickness of mind of you guys (the plebians, public, citizens, subjects... whatever) it's the sickness whereby you don't want to take responsibility for your actions, you want someone else to make all the hard decisions.
you don't like crime, but would whinge if they built a prison next door
you want the toilet to flush and your shit to disappear, but you don't want a muck pond next door.
you want someone else to have the blame/responsibility for loosing billions ("dollars" based on YOUR taxability) on world debt markets. then, whether you voted for it or not, you're insulated from having to take responsibility and can grumble on about how it was either a) bad decision or b) due to factors beyond that poor, innocent, unknowing government's control

you are the plow horse. blinkers on, whips on your back. just do your job. worry about your own, you'll get enough feed at the end of the day, and groomed/petted just enough so you don't go feral, hell, if you come up lame, they'll still strap you to all the other horses, but the others will be dragging your sorry a55 along, and not because they want to.))
just my humble opinion. =)


...the boundaries of a Marae are clearly defined

...Who would you trust to decide who is guilty of harming someone else without attempt at remedy,

...would you cooperate?

...and the cop acted way outside his jurisdiction.... which was stupid anyway. America has the same laws about admissibility of evidence that we do. Any evidence illegally obtained can't be used against you in court.

don't try and follow my lines of reasoning, i'm not entirely sane. you would need to be coming from a similar headspace and level of research down my path to get it.
if you're interested: research anything i put forward as truth.
the irony of this is, if we were in a "court of law" having this discussion, that's exactly what this would be: my truth. and presumably what you're putting forward is your truth. but is either less true?

maraes do have boundaries, quite obvious ones. tribes claim territory, not always so obvious, seeking uruwhenua to travel across/ on to someone elses claimed space is a courtesy. you're unlikely to be killed for not abiding.
i would compare this to the neighbours kids who might want to throw slugs at rabbits... i would expect them to ask permission. it's a respect thing, and the tangatawhenua assume the role (second to god) of carers of the land. not owners.
(if you want to walk on to a marae, keep off the grass walk around to the left, bring beer)

the semi-modern idea that a man can "own" anything, particularly land. (we get a lifetime lease on a carcass.. but once we're done, the fate of man is but the worm.) is at the base of many an historic(since we're going there) conflict. even in NZ if your house is bought and "paid for", you don't own shit. you're holding fee simple TITLE, (while your good caring govt retains ALLOIDAL TITLE and thus, "ownership" and thus all the rights to tell you what to do.)

who would i trust? in my ideal society: everyone
as it is: me
sure as shit not: police, lawyers, government agents, bankers, politicians, hookers, the elderly, the ignorant, religious leaders, white guys in suits, your kids, SUV "drivers", meth addicts, alcoholics, marketing department staff, accountants, anyone who says in conversation "LOL" in place of actually laughing, people who describe everything as "epic" (like their EPIC breakfast of bacon and eggs. whoopdee shit, i had epic weetbix.), anyone with a twitter account, most people with facebook, jews (don't start hatin.), germans, americans or plumbers. (including, but not limited to)

would i co-operate, no, probably not. i can give only my truth, and if my truth is that: "i'm innocent," then fuckoff and let me be.
if i have been witness to the harm, then I, not the police, will be the first to call the guy on it and offer him the chance to make right, failing that, it's the back-paddock-hole. (i'm going to dig one... for posterity.)

just look at this murder trial on now (it's only taken two years)
the cops evidence is that the guilty-guy wore some boots that they (the cops) say he had... but never found and can't prove?!?!. why the fuck is time and money being wasted on shit like this??
see also: david bain. i don't care if he was guilty or not a) they didn't have enough evidence to convict him b) they falsified/interferred with evidence to incriminate him (and the police that did so got off, scott free)
justice. yeah right. it's a fucking mockery and i just don't support it.

[scumdog]

see also: david bain. i don't care if he was guilty or not a) they didn't have enough evidence to convict him b) they falsified/interferred with evidence to incriminate him (and the police that did so got off, scott free)
justice. yeah right. it's a fucking mockery and i just don't support it.


List the 'falsified' evidence. <_<

And shit, it must be torture for you to live in such a hell-hole as New Zealand is eh?

So what have YOU measurably done to improve it?

[Akzle]

List the 'falsified' evidence. <_<

And shit, it must be torture for you to live in such a hell-hole as New Zealand is eh?

So what have YOU measurably done to improve it?

answer ALL my questions. then i'll return the favour.

[scumdog]

answer ALL my questions. then i'll return the favour.

You had questions?:wacko:


Had the green miasma not been so long I might have actually read it...

[Akzle]

You had questions?:wacko:


Had the green miasma not been so long I might have actually read it...
you're a bit late in this game and a bit low on content...

[Glowerss]

Mate what planet are you from? That is the biggest load of twaddle I havwe read on KB for quite a while.

Oh? Prove me wrong then. When last I checked, something like 85% of motorcycle riders in the states were unlicensed and had no formal training of any kind. And the age groups with the largest amount of accidents was under 30.

There is almost no awareness of any kind of motorcycle safety, at least in Illinois. Shit, helmets aren't even compulsory. There are no Government subsidized training programs, no safety programs, and no awareness. I lived in Chicago for 25 years and I can't remember a single time where I saw somebody in full gear. Hell, I can only remember ever seeing less then a handful of people ever having a jacket. Less then 50% were wearing helmets. Why do you think virtually every youtube video from the US involving a sportbike inevitably has somebody in shorts, a wifebeater tshirt and as often as not no helmet? Because it's a bloody common occurance. Sensible riders are an extreme minority back home.

Bikes are ruddy impractical at home. I would wager 70%+ of people buying bikes aren't doing it to save petrol going to and from work. They buy em because they're a cheap way to go very very quickly.

http://www.cycletrader.com/listing/2005-Suzuki-Gsx-R1000-103174464

2005 GSXR 1000 with 15k ish KMs for 5500. Theyre unbelievably cheap for what they are.

[Berries]

Bikes are ruddy impractical at home. I would wager 70%+ of people buying bikes aren't doing it to save petrol going to and from work. They buy em because they're a cheap way to go very very quickly.
Nothing wrong with that is there?

[Glowerss]

Nothing wrong with that is there?

By itself? Not necessarily. But when it's accompanied by a lack of common sense/knowledge/training/gear and supersports bike as your first ever 2 wheeled vehicle, it becomes a problem :p

Seriously, the American motorcycle forums are hilarious. On one of the Suzuki websites, one poster asked what the difference is between the gsx 650f (faired bandit) and the GSXr 600, because he was looking at his first bike, wasn't sure of the difference between the two, and wanted to know if he should go for the sportsbike first because he was worried about "getting bored".

The common response was to buy the 600, because the 650 was "too slow". One of the posters even reccomended buying a thou first, as he had bought the 600 first, and he got "bored of it, as it was too slow" and regretted not having a litrebike as his first.

The biking community and the perception of bikers here could not be any different from back home. My family back home was absolutely mortified I had bought a motorcycle here, as they were sure i was destined to die immediately.

The graduated licensing system/subsidized rider training and the overall general perception of motorcycles and their dangers in NZ is soooooo much better then, if not the US, then Illinois/Chicago in the very least.

[onearmedbandit]

Seriously, the American motorcycle forums are hilarious. On one of the Suzuki websites, one poster asked what the difference is between the gsx 650f (faired bandit) and the GSXr 600, because he was looking at his first bike, wasn't sure of the difference between the two, and wanted to know if he should go for the sportsbike first because he was worried about "getting bored".

The common response was to buy the 600, because the 650 was "too slow". One of the posters even reccomended buying a thou first, as he had bought the 600 first, and he got "bored of it, as it was too slow" and regretted not having a litrebike as his first.



That sounds like gsxr.com. At gixxer.com he would've been recommended to take the msf and, although a few might mention getting the GSXR as a first bike, most would've suggested getting a small cheap bike to learn on (although the gsxf would be pretty much fine for a first time rider who has completed their msf). GDC really surprises me with the way they jump on squids.

[SMOKEU]

That sounds like gsxr.com. At gixxer.com he would've been recommended to take the msf and, although a few might mention getting the GSXR as a first bike, most would've suggested getting a small cheap bike to learn on (although the gsxf would be pretty much fine for a first time rider who has completed their msf). GDC really surprises me with the way they jump on squids.

You should see the way they are with me on the SRAD forum!

[onearmedbandit]

You should see the way they are with me on the SRAD forum!

I shudder to think. But I might have a look for a laugh.

[Buyasta]

You should see the way they are with me on the SRAD forum!

Well that's hardly a fair comparison, it's you. I'm sure they'd find ways to encourage you to kill yourself in amusing ways on a knitting forum. Stupid advice is one thing, trying to get rid of your local inept and predictable troll on the other hand, perfectly natural... I'm sure the sweetest old ladies would start to lose patience by about the 10th time you've suggested the key to mastering the more difficult methods is to install linux on their favourite set of needles, or the reason yarn prices are so high is because of a secret Jewish conspiracy.

[Akzle]

I'm sure the sweetest old ladies would start to lose patience by about the 10th time you've suggested the key to mastering the more difficult methods is to install linux on their favourite set of needles, or the reason yarn prices are so high is because of a secret Jewish conspiracy.
so you know too huh.
ya better watch out for them jewish IT-consultant-by-day-snipers-by-nights...

goldman sachs!

[st00ji]

i didnt read past the first page, it was looking fairly toxic already.

i did like that one guy in the video wearing a back protector over his singlet though.