Comic Jimmy Carr admits off-shore 'tax dodge'

[mashman]

... but he's sorry (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2161852/Jimmy-Carr-apologises-pulls-shore-tax-avoidance-scheme.html) :killingme

Yet another fuckin wanker... all of those who do such a thing are morally redundant human beings with absolutely no concern for their fellow man... and then these people try to justify their in-actions whilst people have lost their jobs and their homes because of cutbacks that could have been avoided had those who can best afford it have just paid their taxes. They're by far worse and do more damage than beneficiaries that fiddle the system!

[Big Dave]

They're by far worse and do more damage than beneficiaries that fiddle the system!

But nowhere near as entertaining.

[mashman]

But nowhere near as entertaining.

Praps attending a party or two might change your mind about that.

[duckonin]

... but he's sorry (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2161852/Jimmy-Carr-apologises-pulls-shore-tax-avoidance-scheme.html) :killingme

Yet another fuckin wanker... all of those who do such a thing are morally redundant human beings with absolutely no concern for their fellow man... and then these people try to justify their in-actions whilst people have lost their jobs and their homes because of cutbacks that could have been avoided had those who can best afford it have just paid their taxes. They're by far worse and do more damage than beneficiaries that fiddle the system!

He is not the only one in the world that has done this.:msn-wink: All of those in business have 'tax havens'. Talk to John Keys,ask him how he handles his TAX you may well be surprised. That is if he would tell you, he does not talk to mere mortals.

[onearmedbandit]

That is if he would tell you, he does not talk to mere mortals.

Where the fuck does that come from?

[Big Dave]

Praps attending a party or two might change your mind about that.

Nah. I have many friends in low places.

[Ocean1]

... all of those who do such a thing are morally redundant human beings with absolutely no concern for their fellow man...

So, how much tax did he pay? I mean, presumably he paid SOME.

And if, say, (just for the sake of arguement), he paid a mere ten times the tax you did... then how much of a redundant wanker does that make you?

[hayd3n]

well if hes not breaking the law then i guess its fine

[mashman]

I have many friends in low places.

but with no sense of humour it would seem.


So, how much tax did he pay? I mean, presumably he paid SOME.

And if, say, (just for the sake of arguement), he paid a mere ten times the tax you did... then how much of a redundant wanker does that make you?

:rofl: excuse number 1 for the thread and an obvious 1 to boot, disappointing, hey ho. There are tax brackets, not tax ceilings! Pay what you are obliged to pay on ALL of your income or you are no better (in fact much worse) than a beneficiary playing the system and indeed do more damage to the country that put you through your schooling and supported you in your meteoric rise to the "top".

Oh no, you mean there are people on this planet that earn more than I do :shit:. Fortunately I pay tax on my whole income and do not try to hide it away anywhere, so I am redundant wanker label free... just an ordinary wanker.

[mashman]

well if hes not breaking the law then i guess its fine

If that's the case, why did he feel the need to apologise? Perhaps he didn't realise that "ordinary" people suffer from his actions :blink:

[hayd3n]

If that's the case, why did he feel the need to apologise? Perhaps he didn't realise that "ordinary" people suffer from his actions :blink:

he was clearly joking

[Ocean1]

Pay what you are obliged to pay on ALL of your income

He did.


you are no better (in fact much worse) than a beneficiary playing the system and indeed do more damage to the country that put you through your schooling and supported you in your meteoric rise to the "top".

So, how much "help" did he need to get to "the top"?

And when you get there will you have needed more or less?

Only, I'm concerned your self-image is taking a terrible battering with these realisations that there's an obligation to return societies "investment". 'Course, I've no idea if mate Jimmy's in the black yet or not. Or you.

[Virago]

I've always found it rather amusing that those who openly despise the monetary system, are invariably obsessed with what other people do with their own money...

[mashman]

Let's throw in a company for good measure (http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/oct/22/vodafone-tax-case-leaves-sour-taste)... Nope, businesses should be taxed at exactly the same rates as us normal folk. Why do they deserve tax incentives when they abuse the taxation system? kinda like forcing every beneficiary to carry a "what you can spend your money on card", even though only a small portion of them abuse the system. One tax scale for all entities and jail the heads of any that are caught avoiding taxes!

[mashman]

he was clearly joking

ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaaa.


He did.



So, how much "help" did he need to get to "the top"?

And when you get there will you have needed more or less?

Only, I'm concerned your self-image is taking a terrible battering with these realisations that there's an obligation to return societies "investment". 'Course, I've no idea if mate Jimmy's in the black yet or not. Or you.

Did he? Why did he admit the opposite?

:rofl:@self image... aye, that's top of my list. Have a search for Jimmy's "spending" or indeed to whom he owed money and didn't pay back. He makes people laugh, so he's alright... now I know I've heard that before.


I've always found it rather amusing that those who openly despise the monetary system, are invariably obsessed with what other people do with their own money...

I'm sure Ocean said that last time around... I might be wrong though... I'm only "obsessed" where there's obvious damage left behind in the wake of the money obsessed and their need to stop at nothing to get more of it. I don't fully despise the monetary system (pretty damned close though) moreover I realise that it is unnecessary.

[JimO]

Let's throw in a company for good measure (http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/oct/22/vodafone-tax-case-leaves-sour-taste)... Nope, businesses should be taxed at exactly the same rates as us normal folk. Why do they deserve tax incentives when they abuse the taxation system? kinda like forcing every beneficiary to carry a "what you can spend your money on card", even though only a small portion of them abuse the system. One tax scale for all entities and jail the heads of any that are caught avoiding taxes!
at least he is earning his own money not bludging like the beneficiaries

[YellowDog]

Let's throw in a company for good measure (http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/oct/22/vodafone-tax-case-leaves-sour-taste)... Nope, businesses should be taxed at exactly the same rates as us normal folk. Why do they deserve tax incentives when they abuse the taxation system? kinda like forcing every beneficiary to carry a "what you can spend your money on card", even though only a small portion of them abuse the system. One tax scale for all entities and jail the heads of any that are caught avoiding taxes!

Point of thread taken and accepted. Like you said, many are doing the same.

Not all businesses abuse the system. There are many small businesses needing all the help they can get so they can employ more people and grow.

As somone who ran a business for 12 years, I can tell you that it is really tough to keep going and also pay everyone every month/quater. It makes you wonder who's in charge? In my case and also in the case of many, you work crazy long hours and become a slave to the IRD. Yes there are some perks, but if you look at the time and effort required to survive, it's not a great deal.

I was lucky and sold my business for shit loads of cash and then took advantage of the tax breaks to get as much cash in my pocket as possible and pay off my mortgage. Was it worth it? Well as it turned out for me personally, yes. But there is a very fine line between surviving and or going bust and without the help of $100,000 of credit card and overdraft facilities, I may well have gone bust on several occasions.

[Red39]

... but he's sorry (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2161852/Jimmy-Carr-apologises-pulls-shore-tax-avoidance-scheme.html) :killingme

Yet another fuckin wanker... all of those who do such a thing are morally redundant human beings with absolutely no concern for their fellow man... and then these people try to justify their in-actions whilst people have lost their jobs and their homes because of cutbacks that could have been avoided had those who can best afford it have just paid their taxes. They're by far worse and do more damage than beneficiaries that fiddle the system!

Awww Mash, you're too good to me....this one's a peach. Although I'd forgive JC anything on account of he's mildly amusing. Good enough reason as any eh. He he he:lol:

[Big Dave]

moreover I realise that it is unnecessary.

Cool - send all yours to Spankme so we can benefit from new hardware.

[mashman]

at least he is earning his own money not bludging like the beneficiaries

:rofl:... just in case you don't know. One of the mechanisms for keeping inflation low, and by default our money worth what it is, is that a percentage of the population have to be unemployed. So technically the beneficiaries are doing more for the economy than he who maketh you laugh. They should be paid more.


Point of thread taken and accepted. Like you said, many are doing the same.

Not all businesses abuse the system. There are many small businesses needing all the help they can get so they can employ more people and grow.

As somone who ran a business for 12 years, I can tell you that it is really tough to keep going and also pay everyone every month/quater. It makes you wonder who's in charge? In my case and also in the case of many, you work crazy long hours and become a slave to the IRD. Yes there are some perks, but if you look at the time and effort required to survive, it's not a great deal.

I was lucky and sold my business for shit loads of cash and then took advantage of the tax breaks to get as much cash in my pocket as possible and pay off my mortgage. Was it worth it? Well as it turned out for me personally, yes. But there is a very fine line between surviving and or going bust and without the help of $100,000 of credit card and overdraft facilities, I may well have gone bust on several occasions.

I know not all businesses abuse the system and that some need help, but like the beneficiaries who need help to earn more money (even if they work 2 jobs for 14 hours per day and still come out with fuck all), if we need to catch the abusers, they all have to suffer? Or is it one rule for some and one for others?

My family have had failed businesses and have had very successful businesses, I've been part of failed startups and part of successful startups and so I've seen and appreciate how hard it is... all the more reason that the scum bags that squirrel away millions (or as the author of the company article assumes) or billions, need to be caught, then perhaps the honest trader will get a fair shout and the help that they require... although why businesses should be subsidised is beyond me, they should be left to fail, just like individuals are.

The harsh realities of life as people keep telling me :)


Cool - send all yours to Spankme so we can benefit from new hardware.

I ain't confident that Mrs Mash will go for that.

[Big Dave]

I ain't confident that Mrs Mash will go for that.


The revolution has to start somewhere. Here is your chance. Grasp the ring. Remember what Billy said - It's only an epical haircut away!

[mashman]

The revolution has to start somewhere. Here is your chance. Grasp the ring. Remember what Billy said - It's only an ethical haircut away!

Waaaaahhhhhh she won't let me... and you fuckers ain't worth me ditchin my family. (not yet anyway)

[Big Dave]

It is 'epical'.

<iframe width="480" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/J7d6ZwAp28Y?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[mashman]

It is 'effical'.

translated from the original English: effical = ethical... cheers for the tune though, Billy was just outside of my era. Prolly just as well eh.

[superman]

at least he is earning his own money not bludging like the beneficiaries

In New Zealand we lose potentially $7 billion per year to tax avoidance.

Unemployed Benefit costs NZ $881 million/year, solo mothers, and caregivers of sick people get $1.82 billion, invalids $1.4 billion, student loans $1.64 billion. Tax avoidance is over twice the combination of all of these beneficiaries. Even if 10% of all beneficiaries were bludgers that's $0.6 billion, and I would find it hard to believe 'bludging' would even occur 1 in every 10 beneficiaries.

The biggest bludgers are the tax avoiders. For some reason in NZ society people envy those who get out of tax rather than condemn their actions as detrimental to the very function of their government.

[Winston001]

One of the mechanisms for keeping inflation low, and by default our money worth what it is, is that a percentage of the population have to be unemployed.





Who originally said that?

Which school of economics proposes that?

[mashman]

Who originally said that?

Which school of economics proposes that?

It was something I read on the RBNZ website (link posted in a thread on KB somewhere). Is it wrong?

[slowpoke]

Best we look in the mirror before we start shouting down the houses. This is, after all, a community who likes nothing better than to walk into a local bike shop to try on some gear or check out some parts, then chuff off home to order it off the 'net. We're then absolutely stoked if the foreign supplier is willing to write down the price so we can avoid all those GST/Customs/clearance fees. If that isn't knowingly shafting the bike shop/industry and shirking our taxation responsibilities what is?

How many of us have done a "cash" job? Or asked for a "cash" price? Knowing full well it wouldn't go through the books.

How many have tried to get out of a parking or speeding fine knowing full well they're in the wrong?

How many business vehicles do you see on the road over the Christmas break or other public holidays?

How many folks here haven't stretched the truth on their tax return? Or, more to the point, would if they could?

How many GP/Superbike stars have addresses in Monaco, Isle of Man or other tax benefial locales? Yet they're still our heroes.

All this sanctimonious vitriol is just so much double standard and jealousy. Most of us are quite happy to do exactly the same, all we're doing is haggling over the amount that is acceptable, a la Winston Churchill and his prostitute comment:

“Churchill: "Madam, would you sleep with me for five million pounds?" Socialite: "My goodness, Mr. Churchill... Well, I suppose... we would have to discuss terms, of course... "
Churchill: "Would you sleep with me for five pounds?"
Socialite: "Mr. Churchill, what kind of woman do you think I am?!" Churchill: "Madam, we've already established that. Now we are haggling about the price”

[Gremlin]

It's legal... If it was so terrible, close the loophole...

Rich people are rich for a reason... I don't see many self-made stupid rich people...

I ain't rich, but I can't see why people would be jumping up and down over it, when he's not breaking any laws.

[BoristheBiter]

... but he's sorry (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2161852/Jimmy-Carr-apologises-pulls-shore-tax-avoidance-scheme.html) :killingme

Yet another fuckin wanker... all of those who do such a thing are morally redundant human beings with absolutely no concern for their fellow man... and then these people try to justify their in-actions whilst people have lost their jobs and their homes because of cutbacks that could have been avoided had those who can best afford it have just paid their taxes. They're by far worse and do more damage than beneficiaries that fiddle the system!

Like them them the cry about governments but do nothing to change it.
Gee that sound familiar.

[Paul in NZ]

The real question regarding this odious little affair is why does this horrible tosser earn so much freakin cash???

[unstuck]

Good on ya jimmy.:niceone:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/UsBZrTHLYAI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>:devil2:

[lakedaemonian]

It's not Jimmy Carr's fault special interests have influenced government to create tax policy that benefits the wealthy, he simply took advantage of legals means to minimize his tax burden.

Ask yourself the following question:

Why is it Jimmy Carr in the headlines as a tax dodger(legal) when there are FAR, FAR bigger fish to fry?

Jimmy Carr is white bait, where's the media coverage on the whales?

[Oscar]

... but he's sorry (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2161852/Jimmy-Carr-apologises-pulls-shore-tax-avoidance-scheme.html) :killingme

Yet another fuckin wanker... all of those who do such a thing are morally redundant human beings with absolutely no concern for their fellow man... and then these people try to justify their in-actions whilst people have lost their jobs and their homes because of cutbacks that could have been avoided had those who can best afford it have just paid their taxes. They're by far worse and do more damage than beneficiaries that fiddle the system!

He apologised for his participation in a LEGAL scheme.
He didn't try and justify his actions, and he's cost no one their job.
I think it's obvious who the wanker is here.

[Oscar]

The marginal tax rate in the UK (150k pounds +) is 50%.

How's that for an incentive to invest in LEGAL tax aviodance?

[Paul in NZ]

A lot of 'merkins believe that its your moral duty to pay as little tax as the system allows for.

Anyway - its just another example of how much better british comedy is than ours. At least you can get a few laughs out of tax avoidance but there is nothing funny about child molestation....

[MisterD]

Why is it Jimmy Carr in the headlines as a tax dodger(legal) when there are FAR, FAR bigger fish to fry?

Because he appeared on an (allegedly) amusing and satirical program in a sketch attacking tax avoiders in general and Barclays Bank in particular. It's his hypocrisy that made it news.

For the record, tax is legalised theft and there is nothing in the slightest immoral about seeking to minimise the amount you pay.

[MisterD]

A lot of 'merkins believe that its your moral duty to pay as little tax as the system allows for.

The first attempt to introduce a federal income tax in the US was struck down as unconstitutional...so the politicians changed the constitution (16th amendment if you want to google).

[mashman]

Like them them the cry about governments but do nothing to change it.
Gee that sound familiar.

There are plenty of people trying to change it, but they don't seem to get into office for some reason, hmmmmm.



He apologised for his participation in a LEGAL scheme.
He didn't try and justify his actions, and he's cost no one their job.
I think it's obvious who the wanker is here.

The marginal tax rate in the UK (150k pounds +) is 50%.

How's that for an incentive to invest in LEGAL tax aviodance?


Why did he apologise? For being caught? Or for realising that it puts undue financial pressure on the govt?
So those people in the public service who have lost their jobs because the govt doesn't take enough in tax are not in that predicament because people are minimising their tax contributions? Sounds like he's costing people their jobs alright.
Yes, you.

I agree that it is an incentive, but it's only an incentive if you decide that those who would receive the benefit of yer tax $ aren't worthy of it. Tells me plenty about their character, especially when they can clearly afford it.

[Oscar]

There are plenty of people trying to change it, but they don't seem to get into office for some reason, hmmmmm.



Why did he apologise? For being caught? Or for realising that it puts undue financial pressure on the govt?
So those people in the public service who have lost their jobs because the govt doesn't take enough in tax are not in that predicament because people are minimising their tax contributions? Sounds like he's costing people their jobs alright.
Yes, you.

I agree that it is an incentive, but it's only an incentive if you decide that those who would receive the benefit of yer tax $ aren't worthy of it. Tells me plenty about their character, especially when they can clearly afford it.

He apologised because it made him look like a hypocrite.
So explain how he's costing people jobs?
By paying the legal amount of tax?

[mashman]

He apologised because it made him look like a hypocrite.
So explain how he's costing people jobs?
By paying the legal amount of tax?

It makes them all look like hypocrites... especially when they start moaning about the ineffectiveness of govt, which plenty do.
For arguments sake let's say he "avoided" 1 million pounds of tax. At a decent salary of 20k that's 50 public servants who could have kept their jobs and potentially their homes. He didn't pay, so an extra 50 people were cut from public service.
Dress it up anyway you like, but it's people's livelihoods that bare the brunt of such actions... although I wouldn't expect smart people to understand that simple concept... after all, they pay what they believe is their fair share.

[Oscar]

It makes them all look like hypocrites... especially when they start moaning about the ineffectiveness of govt, which plenty do.
For arguments sake let's say he "avoided" 1 million pounds of tax. At a decent salary of 20k that's 50 public servants who could have kept their jobs and potentially their homes. He didn't pay, so an extra 50 people were cut from public service.
Dress it up anyway you like, but it's people's livelihoods that bare the brunt of such actions... although I wouldn't expect smart people to understand that simple concept... after all, they pay what they believe is their fair share.

Who are "them"?
Do you often worry about "them"?

As for people losing their jobs, do you seriously think that the Her Majesty's Govt. runs on the basis of sacking people based on that year's income tax take (notwithstanding the fact that have been borrowing for a while now to make up the shortfall)?

"All right you guys, Jimmy's got a new accountant so you're all fired..."

Any country that has a marginal income tax rate of 50% is going to allow for a bit of leakage.

[MisterD]

At a decent salary of 20k that's 50 public servants who could have kept their jobs and potentially their homes. He didn't pay, so an extra 50 people were cut from public service.

What a stupid, stupid argument. Every dollar appropriated by government, is one less dollar available for actual productive investment generating other jobs elsewhere in the economy.

[mashman]

Who are "them"?
Do you often worry about "them"?

As for people losing their jobs, do you seriously think that the Her Majesty's Govt. runs on the basis of sacking people based on that year's income tax take (notwithstanding the fact that have been borrowing for a while now to make up the shortfall)?

"All right you guys, Jimmy's got a new accountant so you're all fired..."

Any country that has a marginal income tax rate of 50% is going to allow for a bit of leakage.

You know, "them"... those who legally avoid paying their taxes.
More and more each day when I see the damage it does to entire country's.

Yes. Isn't that how any business runs? they wouldn't have as much of a shortfall if people didn't avoid their taxes.

:rofl: aye, tis just Jimmy.

Then they're stupid!



What a stupid, stupid argument. Every dollar appropriated by government, is one less dollar available for actual productive investment generating other jobs elsewhere in the economy.

:killingme @ actual productive investment and generating jobs... So the investment and jobs that the govt generate aren't productive or an investment?

[Big Dave]

Yeah - Public utilities are renowned for their efficiency.

[MisterD]

So the investment and jobs that the govt generate aren't productive or an investment?

No they are not, including Government spending in GDP is a con-job. It amazes me how much government "stimulus" has been tried in the last few years with precisely no effect and idiots are still calling for more of it.

This is a different thing again from the fact that government spending is wasteful (being the spending of other peoples' money on things for other people, versus the spending of one's own money on oneself or one's own business...)

[mashman]

Yeah - Public utilities are renowned for their efficiency.

Are you saying that the private companies that the govt outsource the work too are shite?

[mashman]

No they are not, including Government spending in GDP is a con-job. It amazes me how much government "stimulus" has been tried in the last few years with precisely no effect and idiots are still calling for more of it.

This is a different thing again from the fact that government spending is wasteful (being the spending of other peoples' money on things for other people, versus the spending of one's own money on oneself or one's own business...)

So the govt employee doesn't pay tax the same was as the private employee? PAYE that is. The govt employee doesn't do as good of a job as the private employee doing the same thing might? and yet some idiots would prefer to pay more for the same service in the blind hope that they're going to get better value for money... with the profits going off shore quicker than a business man that has just been informed that he needs to pay tax on all of his income.

Yes, they waste it on private companies that charge an absolute arm and a leg for the services that they provide. If that's what you mean then I agree with you. I'd love to see the libertarians get into power, it'd be the quickest police state/slaughter fest that the world has ever seen with no one responsible for anything and those who have armed people in their pocket books violently, and most probably lawfully, defending their own interests. Kind of appealing in ways.

[Big Dave]

Are you saying that the private companies that the govt outsource the work too are shite?


Nope. I said that Government departments are not widely recognised for fiscal efficiency.

[mashman]

Nope. I said that Government departments are not widely recognised for fiscal efficiency.

Probably because the actual work is outsourced pushing the costs through the roof, whilst the internal workforce carry the can. I've seen plenty of competent people in govt departments and I've seen useless twats... same can be said for every private company I've worked for. Hey ho. The best thing is that the public servants generally aren't tax dodging wankers, whereas the private sector workers :dodge::tugger:

[Bikemad]

so Mashy,i take it you are squeaky clean then eh.......never accepted or offered a special price for cash over the years..........ever?

[mashman]

so Mashy,i take it you are squeaky clean then eh.......never accepted or offered a special price for cash over the years..........ever?

One cashy (massively under quoted for a friend). I've done plenty of work for free. I've done plenty of hours for free. I've been paid very well at times. I've never written anything off against tax (much to Mrs Mash's annoyance). I've never hidden my income from the tax man (irrespective of advice received). I've always known where my tax $$$ has gone (give or take). I've changed my mind in regards to the usefullness of the financial system. So I'm pretty damned squeaky clean in that respect... therefore no one else has an excuse not to be.

Edit: and that includes not claiming for the 3/4 months without work last year after I quit my well paid job.

[Oscar]

Probably because the actual work is outsourced pushing the costs through the roof, whilst the internal workforce carry the can. I've seen plenty of competent people in govt departments and I've seen useless twats... same can be said for every private company I've worked for. Hey ho. The best thing is that the public servants generally aren't tax dodging wankers, whereas the private sector workers :dodge::tugger:


Fuck man, you must get tired, what with all this jumping to conclusions and making generalisations.
Why don't you give yourself a break and stop being an opinionated twat for a while?

[Woodman]

Why should one working individual pay more tax than any other individual? Percentages are stupid and unfair, it should be a dollar value.
Let the people with money pay their extra tax in gst (vat if you are Carr) when they buy more shit.

[mashman]

Fuck man, you must get tired, what with all this jumping to conclusions and making generalisations.
Why do you give yourself a break and stop being an opinionated twat for a while?

:killingme... waaaa waaa waaa... it's called balance.

[mashman]

Why should one working individual pay more tax in than any other individual? Percentages are stupid and unfair, it should be a dollar value.
Let the people with money pay their extra tax in gst (vat if you are Carr) when they buy more shit.

Not a problem here. Implement the solution immediately, I'm dying to see how that one will turn out.

[Ocean1]

:killingme... waaaa waaa waaa... it's called balance.

Yeah. A chip on both shoulders.

[mashman]

Yeah. A chip on both shoulders.

bwaaaaa ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaaaa. I can't see any, must be ghost chips :baby:

[Winston001]

It was something I read on the RBNZ website (link posted in a thread on KB somewhere). Is it wrong?

I've explained this before but Murphy's Law, cannot find the post. Suffice to say the whole subject of employment is complex.

Historically full employment is a product of the Industrial Revolution. We've only seen it since the 1820s. Prior to that 30% of the population would not have a regular dependable job all year around. People starved to death in winter when the harvest was bad, and often it was bad. The history of England and Europe is littered with famines.

The "4% unemployed" figure is not a requirement promoted by economists.

Instead it is what economists have observed over decades occuring in balanced economies. 4% appears to be the lowest level of unemployment governments can reach. The lowest level ever was in the USA in 1953 when it reached 2.5% which lasted less than one year.

[Oscar]

:killingme... waaaa waaa waaa... it's called balance.

Balance?
Like the Titanic was balanced toward the stern?

The more you crap on about other people's money, the more bitterly envious you sound.
It's quite sad.
You should stop.

[mashman]

Balance?
Like the Titanic was balanced toward the stern?

The more you crap on about other people's money, the more bitterly envious you sound.
It's quite sad.
You should stop.

Almost... more like sinking evenly.

Of course that how it sounds to you, because that's the only way you can conceptualise my feelings. Which I find utterly amusing given your air of superiority.
That is quite sad.
I do stop, quite frequently.

[Big Dave]

Oscar has no air. He is just a superior example.

[mashman]

Oscar has no air. He is just a superior example.

Air without air... point taken.

[Bridge72]

Their seems to be a lot of hate for Jimmy Carr having taken part in a legal tax avoidance scheme to lower his tax affairs. What he actually did is legal as government are yet to establish a general anti-avoidance rule for what constitutes as an aggressive tax avoidance scheme - set up for the sole purpose of avoiding taxes. If it had been tax evasion, which is illegal, then it would be a completely different matter. But for Cameron to personally comment and say that Jimmy Carr is 'morally wrong' it doesn't seem right for the Prime Minister to comment on Carr's tax affairs but decline to comment on that of Gary Barlow (Take That) who has also been accused in the news of taking part in a tax avoidance scheme; Barlow backed the Tories in their election campaign. Is that fair?

[Winston001]

Not only Jimmy Carr but U2 also use tax shelters while at the same time criticising the wealthy and pleading for the poor of Africa.


By contrast Will I Am (The Voice UK) donated his 500,000 pound earnings to The Prince's Trust. As he said, what am I going to do with all this money - let it do some good.

It is worth remembering that for all the taxdodgers there are others who are philanthropic and do good work. Our own Gareth Morgan for example.

[Brian d marge]

I've explained this before but Murphy's Law, cannot find the post. Suffice to say the whole subject of employment is complex.

Historically full employment is a product of the Industrial Revolution. We've only seen it since the 1820s. Prior to that 30% of the population would not have a regular dependable job all year around. People starved to death in winter when the harvest was bad, and often it was bad. The history of England and Europe is littered with famines.

The "4% unemployed" figure is not a requirement promoted by economists.

Instead it is what economists have observed over decades occuring in balanced economies. 4% appears to be the lowest level of unemployment governments can reach. The lowest level ever was in the USA in 1953 when it reached 2.5% which lasted less than one year.

and the current powers that be are having ANOTHER go at the unemployed http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/7167235/Govt-targets-unemployed

Just like they were told to in 2011 report from those friendly faces , the Bank that cares the IMF

Snip;

265551

Acc is a for of tax , and we would all like to reduce the rego part ,,,,,

Stephen

[scumdog]

... but he's sorry (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2161852/Jimmy-Carr-apologises-pulls-shore-tax-avoidance-scheme.html) :killingme!

never heard of him - and not interested in finding out...

[scott411]

Edit: and that includes not claiming for the 3/4 months without work last year after I quit my well paid job.

you would have had a 12 week stand down from the dole if you have quit the job, but good work on the other stuff,

[BoristheBiter]

Balance?
Like the Titanic was balanced toward the stern?

The more you crap on about other people's money, the more bitterly envious you sound.
It's quite sad.
You should stop.

I think he sounds more like one of those "Gareth Morgan" types that have shit loads of money and so thinks he knows all there is to know about everything.

[HenryDorsetCase]

but with no sense of humour it would seem.



:rofl: excuse number 1 for the thread and an obvious 1 to boot, disappointing, hey ho. There are tax brackets, not tax ceilings! Pay what you are obliged to pay on ALL of your income or you are no better (in fact much worse) than a beneficiary playing the system and indeed do more damage to the country that put you through your schooling and supported you in your meteoric rise to the "top".

Oh no, you mean there are people on this planet that earn more than I do :shit:. Fortunately I pay tax on my whole income and do not try to hide it away anywhere, so I am redundant wanker label free... just an ordinary wanker.

I'm just not seeing the issue here.

For a start, its not as if he is screwing up NZ's tax base, given he isnt a citizen. And say he earns 5 or 10 million a year: there are bankers arms dealers and businessmen who you have never heard of that make ten, fifty, a hundred times more than he does. and pay no tax.

So what makes this news? the fact you see his mug on the telly? Here's an answer: give up telly: it seems apparent that giving up jealousy won't happen.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Not only Jimmy Carr but U2 also use tax shelters while at the same time criticising the wealthy and pleading for the poor of Africa.


By contrast Will I Am (The Voice UK) donated his 500,000 pound earnings to The Prince's Trust. As he said, what am I going to do with all this money - let it do some good.

It is worth remembering that for all the taxdodgers there are others who are philanthropic and do good work. Our own Gareth Morgan for example.

Yep. Basically the issue here is jealousy: How can that wanker get more than I do? All he does is be a smartarse on the telly!? My mates tell me I'm funny as hell down the boozer, yet I'm stuck flipping burgers at the Macca. No fair. Waaaaaa!

[mashman]

Not only Jimmy Carr but U2 also use tax shelters while at the same time criticising the wealthy and pleading for the poor of Africa.

Plenty of sports people too with some being investigated, pointlessly so, by the the UK IRD.



never heard of him - and not interested in finding out...

His show, Distraction, is fackin brilliant and JC is a dry dry sledgehammer of a man. Recommended viewing, I'd even pay to go see him!



you would have had a 12 week stand down from the dole if you have quit the job, but good work on the other stuff,

Aye, I found that out a few months later. The Bank was pretty snippy about my quitting my job though :yes:, cheeky fuckers!



I'm just not seeing the issue here.

For a start, its not as if he is screwing up NZ's tax base, given he isnt a citizen. And say he earns 5 or 10 million a year: there are bankers arms dealers and businessmen who you have never heard of that make ten, fifty, a hundred times more than he does. and pay no tax.

So what makes this news? the fact you see his mug on the telly? Here's an answer: give up telly: it seems apparent that giving up jealousy won't happen.

You're right, I'm sure it doesn't happen in NZ... but as you point out it does happen on a much larger scale and if you can't be 'em, you may as well force your government into debt and then blame the party that you aren't a member of for the financial and social problems that follow. At least you won't be affected and it's the individuals own fault if the lose their jobs etc... innit.

jealousy, yeah, you got me bang to rights big fulla :killingme :yawn:.

[Swoop]

Nope. I said that Government departments are not widely recognised for fiscal efficiency.

They are well versed at calling in "consultants" simply to cover their arses, instead of having some balls and actually making a firm decision and then standing behind it.
If consultants are so necessary it then begs the question of why we have these inept "public servant" parasites in the first place.







There. That should get things fired up...

[Oscar]

and the current powers that be are having ANOTHER go at the unemployed http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/7167235/Govt-targets-unemployed

Just like they were told to in 2011 report from those friendly faces , the Bank that cares the IMF

Snip;

265551

Acc is a for of tax , and we would all like to reduce the rego part ,,,,,

Stephen


By "having a go at the unemployed" do you mean increasing jobs?
As for the IMF, what's so outrageous about their findings? I'm sure the Govt. or anyone with half a clue realises that this country spends too much on welfare.

[Brian d marge]

By "having a go at the unemployed" do you mean increasing jobs?
As for the IMF, what's so outrageous about their findings? I'm sure the Govt. or anyone with half a clue realises that this country spends too much on welfare.

spends too much as in anything? Half of the welfare money is down to ther pension ,,,
as I have shown you many times before

their findings arent so bad ,m all I showed there was that the imfsoke , nz said how high....privatize your essentioal serices , yes sir , privatise your health care .....yes sir we are working on it !

Stephen

[Oscar]

spends too much as in anything? Half of the welfare money is down to ther pension ,,,
as I have shown you many times before

their findings arent so bad ,m all I showed there was that the imfsoke , nz said how high....privatize your essentioal serices , yes sir , privatise your health care .....yes sir we are working on it !

Stephen

My comment was about unemployment, not the pension or health care.
The Govt. doesn't need the IMF to tell them that having 6.7% of your work force unemployed is not a good idea. If you'd like to spin that into the IMF ordering the Govt. around, go for it.:zzzz:

[Oscar]

spends too much as in anything? Half of the welfare money is down to ther pension ,,,
as I have shown you many times before

their findings arent so bad ,m all I showed there was that the imfsoke , nz said how high....privatize your essentioal serices , yes sir , privatise your health care .....yes sir we are working on it !

Stephen

In respect of Health Care, how does anything in the document you posted point to the privatisation of the sector? Is this something that you support?

[sil3nt]

Was this posted?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAcjntGQuCU

[Gremlin]

Was this posted?
Best part in the whole thread :2thumbsup

[unstuck]

Best part in the whole thread :2thumbsup

Agreed.:yes:

[avgas]

... but he's sorry (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2161852/Jimmy-Carr-apologises-pulls-shore-tax-avoidance-scheme.html) :killingme

Yet another fuckin wanker... all of those who do such a thing are morally redundant human beings with absolutely no concern for their fellow man... and then these people try to justify their in-actions whilst people have lost their jobs and their homes because of cutbacks that could have been avoided had those who can best afford it have just paid their taxes. They're by far worse and do more damage than beneficiaries that fiddle the system!
Your story is pants.

This one is better
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2164506/Water-babe-Jessica-Biel-shows-stunning-beach-body--piece.html

[mashman]

Your story is pants.

This one is better
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2164506/Water-babe-Jessica-Biel-shows-stunning-beach-body--piece.html

:drool: agreed.

[Brian d marge]

My comment was about unemployment, not the pension or health care.
The Govt. doesn't need the IMF to tell them that having 6.7% of your work force unemployed is not a good idea. If you'd like to spin that into the IMF ordering the Govt. around, go for it.:zzzz:

try NOT doing what they(imf) suggest ..then see what happens ...Bolivia and some others ..cant you make the link between a " advice" from the IMF ( btw any idea who has the purse strings for the IMF? it wouldnt happen to be America by any chance would it ....wonder how much wieght the American vote has??) and what the succession of governments are doing , just because its unemployment in this example , it is also happening with other sectors ....such as electricity and , if they can ( and are trying to ) ACC ,,,,

Your electricity HAS gone up more than it should , Telccon is ?? water ...health , Rego .....or you could just put your head in the sand and pretend it isnt and that the government is actually for the people ...... as for 6.7 % just a drop in the ocean to oldies on the pension.... that also costs a packet ...oh here a good one lets raise the pension age ,,, that will save a few

Stephen

[mashman]

Best part in the whole thread :2thumbsup

Oh I dunno, it's certainly up there but with all 3 things of merit that have been posted... but I gotta go for Biel in her swimmin cozy.

[Oscar]

try NOT doing what they(imf) suggest ..then see what happens ...Bolivia and some others ..cant you make the link between a " advice" from the IMF ( btw any idea who has the purse strings for the IMF? it wouldnt happen to be America by any chance would it ....wonder how much wieght the American vote has??) and what the succession of governments are doing , just because its unemployment in this example , it is also happening with other sectors ....such as electricity and , if they can ( and are trying to ) ACC ,,,,

Your electricity HAS gone up more than it should , Telccon is ?? water ...health , Rego .....or you could just put your head in the sand and pretend it isnt and that the government is actually for the people ...... as for 6.7 % just a drop in the ocean to oldies on the pension.... that also costs a packet ...oh here a good one lets raise the pension age ,,, that will save a few

Stephen

My point was that the stuff you posted as proof that the IMF was up to no good was just prudent governance and pretty obvious - get people in work, it'll help your economy....oh, and Boliva - there's a reasonable comparison to NZ:facepalm: You'll have to try harder than that for you're conspiracy theories.

I have actually been taking careful note of my electricity costs as I installed two heat pumps and I'd like to know what effect they had. So far this year, we're level pegging or down slightly. Water - free.

And BTW - this Govt. has gone on record to say it won't raise the age for superannuation.

[short-circuit]

Was this posted?

....and we get 7 Days :facepalm:

[Brian d marge]

My point was that the stuff you posted as proof that the IMF was up to no good was just prudent governance and pretty obvious - get people in work, it'll help your economy....oh, and Boliva - there's a reasonable comparison to NZ:facepalm: You'll have to try harder than that for you're conspiracy theories.

I have actually been taking careful note of my electricity costs as I installed two heat pumps and I'd like to know what effect they had. So far this year, we're level pegging or down slightly. Water - free.

And BTW - this Govt. has gone on record to say it won't raise the age for superannuation.

Actually I dont have to try harder , I just sit back and watch it happen and ( the sad part ) I get to say I told you so ....

Que , asset sales.

Bolivia , Argentina , Venezuela Some Asian county ( cant remember Korea?) if fact most ( if not all) who signed up the the " Washington consensus " have fared pretty badly

I mean , goods can move independent ( free trade ) but labour cant? ( visas) ,,, so something manufactured under expensive conditions is going to be sold in a country that has cheap labour( conditions) ie lower production costs ( wages) ,,,i dont think so , usually cheaply produced is shipped to a wealthier country ....at an increased profit ...for large multinational corporations , the problem is that workers in the arse end economy’s remain poor, as any pay raises they may have received over what they made before trade liberalization are said to be offset by inflation, whereas workers in the First World country become unemployed, while the wealthy owners of the multinational grow even more wealthy.

and what has happened in these countries , how much has the gap between the rich and the poor grown ....... Hmmmm let me think ...oh I know New Zealand ( and wasnt it a Labour government who said/did that ) strange I thought labour were for the people ,,,,,and national are promoting free trade ( and similar policys ) , and we have just appointed an ex world bank prez as treasury leader ...
who IS running the show .........


about now most sane people would be asking themselves , why is it one or two of these " nuts " seem to be saying the SAME thing and why IS my rego so high ..... maybe I should check " just in case "

Your heat pumps would have been even cheaper to run if you had listened ....

As for the oldies

They are also demonizing the unemployed ,in order to attracted "the Oscars" of this world in a build up for the next election.... Nice man Mr key , he stuck to his word ,,,,,Like that in a politician ..
Stephen

oh and as for the water ,,,http://www.watercare.co.nz/common-content/billing-and-payment/water-and-wastewater-charges/Pages/default.aspx

they seem to be charging for it ...you stealing again ,,,,,? rain barrel ,,,? be-careful they tried to tax rainwater as well ( Bolivia )

[oneofsix]

You didn't point out that when the IMF "bail out" economies what in fact happens is the "country" is given more debt for the people to service so the overseas "investors" can take the "bail out" money and run rather than take a lose on their investments. It doesn't actually help the country at all.
bail out = increase the people's debt
country = citizen who feel loyal to where they live
investors = the big money that really control IMF

[jellywrestler]

there are others who are philanthropic and do good work. Our own Gareth Morgan for example.

have you seen what he's doing with our $30 registration tax, I bet he's having casual sex with Jimmy Carr, just don't actually know who plays mummy and who plays daddy when they're at it though.

[BoristheBiter]

Not only Jimmy Carr but U2 also use tax shelters while at the same time criticising the wealthy and pleading for the poor of Africa.


By contrast Will I Am (The Voice UK) donated his 500,000 pound earnings to The Prince's Trust. As he said, what am I going to do with all this money - let it do some good.

It is worth remembering that for all the taxdodgers there are others who are philanthropic and do good work. Our own Gareth Morgan for example.

How do you think he got his money? it wasn't from giving it away if he had to.

aren't rose tinted glasses a good thing.

But yes, WIA and bob geldof are the only one's I know of (yes there will be a lot more that have a lot less)that has put their money where his mouth is.
And no GM is not one of them.

[Brian d marge]

You didn't point out that when the IMF "bail out" economies what in fact happens is the "country" is given more debt for the people to service so the overseas "investors" can take the "bail out" money and run rather than take a lose on their investments. It doesn't actually help the country at all.
bail out = increase the people's debt
country = citizen who feel loyal to where they live
investors = the big money that really control IMF

My bad

There IS a solution though Im glad to report ....

one that is palatable to most on this forum

Stephen

[Oscar]

Actually I dont have to try harder , I just sit back and watch it happen and ( the sad part ) I get to say I told you so ....

Que , asset sales.

Bolivia , Argentina , Venezuela Some Asian county ( cant remember Korea?) if fact most ( if not all) who signed up the the " Washington consensus " have fared pretty badly

I mean , goods can move independent ( free trade ) but labour cant? ( visas) ,,, so something manufactured under expensive conditions is going to be sold in a country that has cheap labour( conditions) ie lower production costs ( wages) ,,,i dont think so , usually cheaply produced is shipped to a wealthier country ....at an increased profit ...for large multinational corporations , the problem is that workers in the arse end economy’s remain poor, as any pay raises they may have received over what they made before trade liberalization are said to be offset by inflation, whereas workers in the First World country become unemployed, while the wealthy owners of the multinational grow even more wealthy.

and what has happened in these countries , how much has the gap between the rich and the poor grown ....... Hmmmm let me think ...oh I know New Zealand ( and wasnt it a Labour government who said/did that ) strange I thought labour were for the people ,,,,,and national are promoting free trade ( and similar policys ) , and we have just appointed an ex world bank prez as treasury leader ...
who IS running the show .........


about now most sane people would be asking themselves , why is it one or two of these " nuts " seem to be saying the SAME thing and why IS my rego so high ..... maybe I should check " just in case "

Your heat pumps would have been even cheaper to run if you had listened ....

As for the oldies

They are also demonizing the unemployed ,in order to attracted "the Oscars" of this world in a build up for the next election.... Nice man Mr key , he stuck to his word ,,,,,Like that in a politician ..
Stephen

oh and as for the water ,,,http://www.watercare.co.nz/common-content/billing-and-payment/water-and-wastewater-charges/Pages/default.aspx

they seem to be charging for it ...you stealing again ,,,,,? rain barrel ,,,? be-careful they tried to tax rainwater as well ( Bolivia )

From what I can make out (you do tend to wander somewhat in your posts), you are complaining about the Govt. being mean to the unemployed, but advocating the importation of cheap labour.

Notwithstanding that, the comments you are referring as "demonizing the unemployed" could equally be construed as "getting people back in work".

[Brian d marge]

From what I can make out (you do tend to wander somewhat in your posts), you are complaining about the Govt. being mean to the unemployed, but advocating the importation of cheap labour.

Notwithstanding that, the comments you are referring as "demonizing the unemployed" could equally be construed as "getting people back in work".


Sorry about wandering , complex subject trying to make it simple , no the long and short of it , the washington consesus promotes un unequal world with MOST of us getting a raw deal .

the selling of assets etc , and the playing of the "tax" game are all part of an overall "sickness" , which is unsustanable,

and just plain wrong

Stephen

[Winston001]

...complex subject trying to make it simple , no the long and short of it , the washington consesus promotes un unequal world with MOST of us getting a raw deal .


Raw deal?? Most of us??

Stephen I have to pull you up on that.

Have you been to Africa? India? China? South America?

Clean water is unknown for 4 1/2 billion people. Tomorrows food is also unknown. Medical care...pretty much non-existant. You (and I) live among the privileged minority, you literally do not know how lucky you are.

Tell you what - go to Kenya (a successful African nation) or China with $100 and live for a month. Then let us know how you got on.

[Brian d marge]

Raw deal?? Most of us??

Stephen I have to pull you up on that.

Have you been to Africa? India? China? South America?

Clean water is unknown for 4 1/2 billion people. Tomorrows food is also unknown. Medical care...pretty much non-existant. You (and I) live among the privileged minority, you literally do not know how lucky you are.

Tell you what - go to Kenya (a successful African nation) or China with $100 and live for a month. Then let us know how you got on.

degrees of separation ...while I completly agree with you , ( i know this is going to sound strange ) but poverty is relative to your surroundings

but I know what you mean there IS a basic MINIMUM that all human being should have ....

Doesnt detract from what I have been saying , rather shows the inequalities even more

Stephen

[pete376403]

Perhaps we in NZ have access to clean water, reasonable roading, school, hospitals, etc because structures and systems to make that happen were put in place long before "public ownership" became dirty words, and long before the idea that private enterprise can always do better than government became so firmly entrenched.

[Winston001]

Yeah Pete, I know what you mean but honestly, the asset sales argument is poorly opposed.

For example, every year the Crown sells bits of land all over the country. Every single bit of that land is an asset owned on behalf of the community. But do you (or I) ever make a peep about it?

Old buildings, vacant pieces in remote areas, reserves which have lain unused for years, empty schools - none of us care about these valuable assets. Assets which are sometimes worth millions but nobody says a word.

But suddenly 50yr old hydro dams which have already repaid the public investment from our grandparents - suddenly these are "family silver"?

We (as a nation) have already 16 years ago sold the Clyde Dam, the Roxburgh Dam, Wairakei thermal, Otahuhu B gas, Whirinaki diesel, Stratford....the list goes on.

16 years ago. I don't know your age but let me ask - what difference has the sale of those power stations made to you and your community? To any of us?

[BoristheBiter]

Yeah Pete, I know what you mean but honestly, the asset sales argument is poorly opposed.

For example, every year the Crown sells bits of land all over the country. Every single bit of that land is an asset owned on behalf of the community. But do you (or I) ever make a peep about it?

Old buildings, vacant pieces in remote areas, reserves which have lain unused for years, empty schools - none of us care about these valuable assets. Assets which are sometimes worth millions but nobody says a word.

But suddenly 50yr old hydro dams which have already repaid the public investment from our grandparents - suddenly these are "family silver"?

We (as a nation) have already 16 years ago sold the Clyde Dam, the Roxburgh Dam, Wairakei thermal, Otahuhu B gas, Whirinaki diesel, Stratford....the list goes on.

16 years ago. I don't know your age but let me ask - what difference has the sale of those power stations made to you and your community? To any of us?


I think we should sell the whole lot off.

Everyone is saying that we can't afford the super when we get to 65 and the younger generation is to selfish to pay for it so all the things we have paid for should be sold off to pay for our super.
If the younger generation wants to keep them then they pay us for them.