2stroke - F3/Superlite bikes coming soon to a track near you

[codgyoleracer]

Coming soon to a track near you, the Wobbly machines !

The sweet smell of 2 stroke oil will be wafting past our noses in the not to distant future !, 400cc 2stroke twins were an option bought into the class a short while back and a couple are just about finished.

Good on ya wobbly for yet again producing a bike within the last development class out there (F3), an RZ350 based. Aprilia 250 framed weapon. I have already booked a test ride with one owner, so look forward to reporting on that :-) :niceone:

Weight and hp numbers should be known soon !

[jasonu]

Coming soon to a track near you, the Wobbly machines !

The sweet smell of 2 stroke oil will be wafting past our noses in the not to distant future !, 400cc 2stroke twins were an option bought into the class a short while back and a couple are just about finished.

Good on ya wobbly for yet again producing a bike within the last development class out there (F3), an RZ350 based. Aprilia 250 framed weapon. I have already booked a test ride with one owner, so look forward to reporting on that :-) :niceone:

Weight and hp numbers should be known soon !

Check out the ESE thread in the Buckets section.

[Fast Eddie]

whats this? a class for 400cc 2 strokes?

tell me more..

[Yow Ling]

whats this? a class for 400cc 2 strokes?

tell me more..

f3 2t up to 400cc road based cases, frame open

[Robert Taylor]

Coming soon to a track near you, the Wobbly machines !

The sweet smell of 2 stroke oil will be wafting past our noses in the not to distant future !, 400cc 2stroke twins were an option bought into the class a short while back and a couple are just about finished.

Good on ya wobbly for yet again producing a bike within the last development class out there (F3), an RZ350 based. Aprilia 250 framed weapon. I have already booked a test ride with one owner, so look forward to reporting on that :-) :niceone:

Weight and hp numbers should be known soon !

Heck Glenn

I wish you hadnt bought this to light so soon, there will be people looking to have these banned.

[F5 Dave]

As people probably muttered when SVs raised the game in F3. Bikes get built to suit whatever rules are in existence.

Glad to hear your positive outlook on the bikes. If this 'test ride' is being published I'd love to live vicariously through the ride so date of mag release would be appreciated.:banana:

[Robert Taylor]

As people probably muttered when SVs raised the game in F3. Bikes get built to suit whatever rules are in existence.

Glad to hear your positive outlook on the bikes. If this 'test ride' is being published I'd love to live vicariously through the ride so date of mag release would be appreciated.:banana:

Indeed! But its also about time we had some fulltime engines racing, as opposed to those that spend an extra 360 degrees pumping.

[skism]

fuck cocain, i do lines of 2 stroke oil

love that stuff

[CHOPPA]

Wobbly built those years ago didnt he? I think he makes them for customers too....

Same engine im pretty sure just a bit smaller
http://www.twostrokeshop.com/Aprilia_RS500_2008.htm

[CHOPPA]

Looks like they taken down all info?

Here is a vid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_vzR6r8zOs

[bones1999]

Heck Glenn

I wish you hadnt bought this to light so soon, there will be people looking to have these banned.


Better not!!!!!!!!

[slowpoke]

Back to the future! Can't wait to see/hear/smell 'em out there, should be good. Any news on prospective riders?

[bones1999]

Back to the future! Can't wait to see/hear/smell 'em out there, should be good. Any news on prospective riders?

I'm building one

[slowpoke]

I'm building one

Rep duly awarded !:drool:

[codgyoleracer]

I'm building one

Good on you !, they sound fantastic.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Looks like they taken down all info?

Here is a vid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_vzR6r8zOs

It ended very badly. Handbags at dawn sort of stuff.

A pity because the Aprilia RS250 running ger 500cc 2T was utter sex. Is that video the one filmed in UnZud?

edit: yup

A_vzR6r8zOs

[eelracing]

I wish you hadnt bought this to light so soon, there will be people looking to have these banned.

That was the GP 250's was it not...hell it's laughable that MNZ can kid themselves and call an SV a F3/superlite (a contradictive term if ever there was one) yet turn around and ban a proper (and now old) lightweight racebike from F3.

But anyway I look forward to seeing the RS/RZ 400 out there.

[SWERVE]

Oh yes pleeaaaaase:woohoo:

[Robert Taylor]

Good on you !, they sound fantastic.

Aside from Wobblys build time for these tasty bikes ( similiar in length to Nelson Mandelas incarceration period ) the tall basketball player proportioned white Afrikaans South African guy who will be riding it is very fast. I am personally looking forward to this project as the other tasty bits fitted will be multi NZ championship winning Ohlins NIX30 cartridges and TTX36 mark 2 with all the latest fruit inside it.
This should breathe some new life and excitement into the class.

[sil3nt]

It ended very badly. Handbags at dawn sort of stuff.
It hasn't ended. They are still working to get those who have spent money an engine that runs. Thread here http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/showthread.php?246083-TSS-RS500GP-(round-3)-cylinder-problems/page28

[SWERVE]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200777909153+#ht_3557wt_81
Not good at this link thing,,...! but if it works check this out.:drool:

[CHOPPA]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200777909153+#ht_3557wt_81
Not good at this link thing,,...! but if it works check this out.:drool:

Now that is cool! Might not quite fit in F3 though....

[scott411]

Aside from Wobblys build time for these tasty bikes ( similiar in length to Nelson Mandelas incarceration period ) the tall basketball player proportioned white Afrikaans South African guy who will be riding it is very fast. I am personally looking forward to this project as the other tasty bits fitted will be multi NZ championship winning Ohlins NIX30 cartridges and TTX36 mark 2 with all the latest fruit inside it.
This should breathe some new life and excitement into the class.

we had a customer that had his eye on doing on of these as well, already had the RS250 as a doner bike, but Wobbly makes (or at least designs) some very cool things, although i have yet to ever see one running in the flesh,

[budda]

Heck Glenn

I wish you hadnt bought this to light so soon, there will be people looking to have these banned.

had all that at the time we changed the rule ..........

[Deano]

I'm building one

I trust that you're piloting it as well Rob - be good to see you back out there mate !

[bones1999]

I trust that you're piloting it as well Rob - be good to see you back out there mate !

Sure am Deano, hanging to get back out there and ring its neck!!!

[wobbly]

Just so you all know, there is no "they" trying to keep TSS500 customers happy with parts they paid for.
The lying, thieving, piece of shit Australian partner that slags me off on various forums, with great screeds of twisted bullshit, owes the customers money or parts.
I never received a cent of customer money and had nothing to do with the lies that they were told.
I feel dumb really, for not walking away ( if I could ) when he advertised for sale,a running bike that I hadnt even started yet.

Anyway old boring shit,
The Superlight class rules have finally been ratified by MNZ.
Here is what I AM responsible for.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TE9am_QCzwc&feature=plcp

Billy has just finished the glass, so the first bike will be at a track day test very soon, two more on the way.
I will post a video of this asap.

[Drew]

This should breathe some new life and excitement into the class.

There's heaps of life in this class Robert, and the guys breathing it deserve at least some respect for out of the box thinking already.

Don't get me wrong, two stroke race bikes are fuggin awesome, (I think that is because it's what we grew up with), but the technology is pretty much reserved for snowmobiles and watersports these days, and the bikes are gonna be seen only in classic racing inside our lifetime.

[Robert Taylor]

There's heaps of life in this class Robert, and the guys breathing it deserve at least some respect for out of the box thinking already.

Don't get me wrong, two stroke race bikes are fuggin awesome, (I think that is because it's what we grew up with), but the technology is pretty much reserved for snowmobiles and watersports these days, and the bikes are gonna be seen only in classic racing inside our lifetime.

Dont count on it

[Robert Taylor]

Just so you all know, there is no "they" trying to keep TSS500 customers happy with parts they paid for.
The lying, thieving, piece of shit Australian partner that slags me off on various forums, with great screeds of twisted bullshit, owes the customers money or parts.
I never received a cent of customer money and had nothing to do with the lies that they were told.
I feel dumb really, for not walking away ( if I could ) when he advertised for sale,a running bike that I hadnt even started yet.

Anyway old boring shit,
The Superlight class rules have finally been ratified by MNZ.
Here is what I AM responsible for.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TE9am_QCzwc&feature=plcp

Billy has just finished the glass, so the first bike will be at a track day test very soon, two more on the way.
I will post a video of this asap.

Karma will in the end sort this Wobbly, in my world there are lying and twisting people as well, predisposed to telling huge fairy tales of adventure. Those of us that have known you for a long time know that you are a talented engineer with ethics to match.
Long live 2 strokes!

[Drew]

Dont count on it


Which manufacturers are working on two stroke paved road machines these days?

[Robert Taylor]

Which manufacturers are working on two stroke paved road machines these days?

When you said ''not in our lifetimes'' I thought that for a guy as tender as you in years that was a pretty bold statement. The technology already largely exists to manufacture high performance 2 stroke engines with very low emmissions. Many manufacturers hold such technology in reserve until the market is ready to accept it. Who would bet against that over the next few years the world takes a course where the market will accept it???

[Drew]

When you said ''not in our lifetimes'' I thought that for a guy as tender as you in years that was a pretty bold statement. The technology already largely exists to manufacture high performance 2 stroke engines with very low emmissions. Many manufacturers hold such technology in reserve until the market is ready to accept it. Who would bet against that over the next few years the world takes a course where the market will accept it???

Pretty sure I used the word 'likely' in there Robert. This is one of those rare times when I'm not taking the piss or winding you and others up for fun.

I wonder though, and Wobbly will surely have the answer, how have they combatted the incredibly shit fuel economy that 2 strokes achieve?

Mazda made the Wankle rotary reliable, and meet euro3, but it still wasn't efficient and they've scrapped it.

[Dodgy]

Actually, the world's most efficient internal combustion engines are two strokes. For example, have a read of the Hyaundi two stroke diesel engines that power some of the largest ships in the world. Two stroke.

They would have had a real future in GP if the asses in charge had have allowed direct injection technology.

[Mental Trousers]

I wonder though, and Wobbly will surely have the answer, how have they combatted the incredibly shit fuel economy that 2 strokes achieve?

Mazda made the Wankle rotary reliable, and meet euro3, but it still wasn't efficient and they've scrapped it.

Direct Injection. They don't spray fuel into the inlet like usual, instead the fuel is injected into the cylinder after the exhaust port has been closed off. That way only the exact amount of fuel needed is burnt and nothing escapes down the exhaust.

[wobbly]

The issue with production 2T use now is simply who controls the technology.
Evinrude for example make easily the best outboard money can buy.
The big V6 is easily the lightest,fastest,least emmissions, best economy, best reliability engine on the market.
Its direct injection is the Super clever E Tec that allows for stratified charge - the issue is the enormous licencing costs.
Same for the Orbital technology used in other manufactures engines - again they are way more efficient, less polluting etc than any 4T on the planet
but the patent protection costs a fortune.
What is needed now, is a quantum leap sidedways, with some form of new, cheap, innovative direct injection method that can be applied to 500 trillion Asian ring dings.
Once that nut is cracked the avalanche of 2Ts will send the Honda arseholes into recievership, for their short sighted corporate view of technology - and rightly so.

[F5 Dave]

It started with the main man being a 4 stroke zealot. He liked air cooling as well. Funny & embarrassing I bet when they developed the EX2 (?) Rally bike for a lighter Desert bike with similar power & economy to the behemoths. Was quite successful, but lightly brushed to the side. Strange also for a company that has had some much success with racing 2 strokes.

[merv]

See this thread http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/151444-Horny-sound-of-NSR-race-bikes

Honda I am sure can make as many 2T as it needs to into the future.

Surely the next trick is something like a 2T with valves, no need for transfer ports so no oil into the cylinders, and the fresh air would be pumped into the inlet valve by a supercharger or turbocharger (depending on how well they can tune the exhaust) expelling the burnt charge,then direct injection squirting the fuel in and then you'd have power, efficiency and very low emissions. The fresh air wouldn't suffer being heated in the crankcase either.

Is this what you are talking about Robert?

[F5 Dave]

They had a big quash to stop all 2 stroke production what was it? 2010 maybe.

I've filed **nda off my sidecases of my bucket.

[Mental Trousers]

Honda have never liked 2 strokes. They made them cos there was a demand and they made them well because Honda don't do half arsed when it comes to engines. But they've always been a 4 stroke company and they were a big influence in the move to MotoGP 990's.

[Drew]

This all sounds too good to be true. I'm not being deliberately negative about this, it all sounds great, I just have laymen questions I guess.

I suppose the reliability of a stroker can be greatly enhanced with fuel injection and decent engine management then also?

[F5 Dave]

I think you've been scared by MVX250 ownership.

[Drew]

I think you've been scared by MVX250 ownership.

Never owned one. My only two strokes were an A50, A100, T500, and GT500

[lostinflyz]

This all sounds too good to be true. I'm not being deliberately negative about this, it all sounds great, I just have laymen questions I guess.

I suppose the reliability of a stroker can be greatly enhanced with fuel injection and decent engine management then also?

this is another of the issues. someone has to make a highly efficent motor, of close to equal power, that is reliable and can last ~100 to 200 thousand kms on average. think a life span of 15 years for a motor with no major service...... then you see the trouble EV's have, plus every other mode of non-conventional motored vechile

[flame]

Well I might just bring my little two smoker out to play, even though its only 250 :o(....I wish there was still a proddy class for them :o))

[wobbly]

We are already there - the Evinrude outboards are way more reliable than any of the 4T counterparts, and when they do break it cost 1/10 of the money to fix.
No one can compete with the fire every stroke technology - its simply a matter of applying the now available clever shit computer control to make the use of a 2T a no brainer.
I mean if you can buy a dyno app for an I Phone for Jack Shit, its now obviously easy, supremely easy, to computer control fuel squirting into a hole to make Hp.
Just how the mechanical end of this supreme deal pans out remains a mystery.
Fear not - it will happen.

[gammaguy]

Which manufacturers are working on two stroke paved road machines these days?

and who says that racing cant be purely racing,and roadbikes can do what the hell they like

the 2T is and always will be the king of power to weight ratio which is after all what racing is all about,being the best you can be not sucking the cock of roadbike makers.

It used to be that racing set the standards and trends,now it seems we are meant to be the other way around and look for "relevance"and "being in line with road trends"

crap,I want to see pure racing for racings sake.

To hell with relevance and sensible reasoning,I want to see powerful good handling machines with skilful riders racing to win.If that is a 2T machine,so be it.Who cares if the road guys are or are not riding them.

How many road guys were on NSR500 /RGV500/ YZR500?Was the racing between Rainey/Schwantz/Sheene/Roberts any less exciting because it was not "relevant".I think not

I know many people who happily jumped on their VFR750 and rode home after watching Wayne Gardner win at Philip Island,and they did not give a damn how relevant their bike was to the one Mr Gardner was riding.


Go watch WSBK or Moto GP if you want to follow the road bikes dictating what should be ridden

I want to see racing.

[Robert Taylor]

The issue with production 2T use now is simply who controls the technology.
Evinrude for example make easily the best outboard money can buy.
The big V6 is easily the lightest,fastest,least emmissions, best economy, best reliability engine on the market.
Its direct injection is the Super clever E Tec that allows for stratified charge - the issue is the enormous licencing costs.
Same for the Orbital technology used in other manufactures engines - again they are way more efficient, less polluting etc than any 4T on the planet
but the patent protection costs a fortune.
What is needed now, is a quantum leap sidedways, with some form of new, cheap, innovative direct injection method that can be applied to 500 trillion Asian ring dings.
Once that nut is cracked the avalanche of 2Ts will send the Honda arseholes into recievership, for their short sighted corporate view of technology - and rightly so.

Pretty colourful there Wobbly but you are so right. It shouldnt be underestimated how much power Honda Motor Co wields, or rather shouldnt wield. More than a few times they have threatened to throw their toys out of the cot when someone came along with something more clever or the rules didnt suit them.

[gammaguy]

Soichiro Honda never liked two strokes,Honda only built them because they knew if they didnt they would get left behind in the 70 s 80 s and 90 s.

He would have been the first to jump on the 2T bad 4T good bandwagon that got the move back to 4T going in Moto GP

Ironically it was MV Agusta that tried it in the seventies when Suzuki built a 2T race bike ridden by a certain B.Sheene and started kicking ass.

its funny how things go round in circles.

Honda just wielded their huge political and financial power to the Moto GP owners and told them what they wanted,or else.

They have never got over the NR500,so I guess they will feel they finally got their revenge.

[Rcktfsh]

Soichiro Honda never liked two strokes,Honda only built them because they knew if they didnt they would get left behind in the 70 s 80 s and 90 s.

He would have been the first to jump on the 2T bad 4T good bandwagon that got the move back to 4T going in Moto GP

Ironically it was MV Agusta that tried it in the seventies when Suzuki built a 2T race bike ridden by a certain B.Sheene and started kicking ass.

.

Barry was the 2nd 500 world champ on a 2t in 76, Ago won the 75 championship on a Yamaha.

[Skunk]

Well I might just bring my little two smoker out to play, even though its only 250 :o(....I wish there was still a proddy class for them :o))It's called Superlites or 90's F3 or Posties F3. Pick one. I shall be there one day on my ZXR-RD400 hybrid. Thanks for the ignition system Wobbly.

[gammaguy]

Barry was the 2nd 500 world champ on a 2t in 76, Ago won the 75 championship on a Yamaha.

and i was at silverstone in 1975 when Barry Sheene was on a 2T and Ago was still on a 4T

[Robert Taylor]

and i was at silverstone in 1975 when Barry Sheene was on a 2T and Ago was still on a 4T

I dont recall to the nth degree but didnt Ago join the tuning fork temple around 72 / 73, susequently win a world title with them and then go back to that helicopter company in the very twilight of his career?

( Motorcycle racers are a little bit like criminal lawyers, they will represent those who pay them the most, irrespective of whether they deserve representation or not )

[Rcktfsh]

and i was at silverstone in 1975 when Barry Sheene was on a 2T and Ago was still on a 4T

Ago rode for Yamaha in 74 & 75, winning the 350 title in 74 and 4th in the 500 title, winning the 500 in 75 and 2nd in 350. The YZR 500 OW23 he won the title on was the first 2 stroke 500 title winner.

[codgyoleracer]

We are already there - the Evinrude outboards are way more reliable than any of the 4T counterparts, and when they do break it cost 1/10 of the money to fix.
No one can compete with the fire every stroke technology - its simply a matter of applying the now available clever shit computer control to make the use of a 2T a no brainer.
I mean if you can buy a dyno app for an I Phone for Jack Shit, its now obviously easy, supremely easy, to computer control fuel squirting into a hole to make Hp.
Just how the mechanical end of this supreme deal pans out remains a mystery.
Fear not - it will happen.

So when do you start your supercharged direct injection project wobbly ?, Now that would be C O O L :-)

[merv]

and i was at silverstone in 1975 when Barry Sheene was on a 2T and Ago was still on a 4T

Read Wiki and you'll see your memory about the year must be a bit screwed http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giacomo_Agostini

He was not on the MV in 1975 but he did use the MV again in 1976.

[Robert Taylor]

Read Wiki and you'll see your memory about the year must be a bit screwed http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giacomo_Agostini

He was not on the MV in 1975 but he did use the MV again in 1976.

Heck my alzheimers is not too advanced yet

[merv]

Heck my alzheimers is not too advanced yet

Yeah you're fine, you still seem to remember that Ohlins are the best product on the market :niceone:.

I thought Ago's win first time out at at the Daytona 200 on the Yamaha was one of his most impressive rides - certainly showed that he could ride 2 strokes - and then to go on and win the 350 and 500 titles proved any critics he had as wrong.

[gammaguy]

I just looked back thru my old photos

It was 1976(sorry about that)

and AGO was on an MV


500cc World Standing 1976
Pos. Rider Bike Nation Points
1 Barry SHEENE Suzuki GBR 72
2 Tevo LANSIVUORI Suzuki FIN 48
3 Pat HENNEN Suzuki USA 46
4 Marco LUCCHINELLI Suzuki ITA 40
5 John NEWBOLD Suzuki GBR 31
6 Philippe COULON Suzuki SWI 28
7 Giacomo AGOSTINI MV Agusta ITA 26
8 Jack FINDLAY Suzuki AUS 25
9 Charlie WILLIAMS Suzuki GBR 24
10 Phil READ Suzuki GBR 22
11 Marcel ANKONE Suzuki NED 21
12 Stuart AVANT Suzuki NZE 2
13 Tom HERRON Yamaha IRL 17
14 Chas MORTIMER Suzuki GBR 16
14 Michel ROUGERIE Suzuki FRA 16
14 Karl AUER Yamaha AUT 16
17 Dieter BRAUN Suzuki GER 15
18 Victor PALOMO Yamaha SPA 13
19 Ian RICHARDS Yamaha GBR 12
19 Johnny CECOTTO Yamaha VEN 12
21 Wil HARTOG Suzuki NED 10
21 Virginio FERRARI Suzuki ITA 10
21 Billie GUTHRIE Yamaha IRL 10
24 Alex GEORGE Hermetite-SuzukiI GBR 9
25 Boet VAN DULMEN Yamaha-Suzuki NED 9
26 Takazumi KATAYAMA Yamaha JPN 8
27 Max WIENER Yamaha AUT 6
27 Roger NICHOLS Yamaha GBR 6
29 Olivier CHEVALLIER Yamaha FRA 5
29 Jonnie EKEROLD Yamaha RSA 5
31 Bernard FAU Yamaha FRA 4
31 Bernd TUNGETHAL Yamaha GER 4
31 Alan NORTH Suzuki RSA 4
34 Gordon PANTALL Yamaha GBR 3
34 Christian ESTROSI Suzuki FRA 3
34 Rob BRON Yamaha NED 3
34 Christian BOURGEOIS Yamaha FRA 3
38 Helmut KASSNER Suzuki GER 3
39 Pekka NURMI Yamaha FIN 2
39 John WEEDEN Yamaha GBR 2
41 Dave POTTER Yamaha GBR 1
41 G. SCHWEMMER Nava GER 1
41 W.A. SMITH Yamaha GBR 1
41 Edmar FERREIRA Yamaha BRA 1
41 Borge W. NIELSEN Yamaha DEN 1