Toke up and keep your job

[Winston001]

Here's an odd case: a carpenter was fired for smoking cannabis on the job but the Employment Relations Authority said - Uh-uh naughty boss, do not pass Go, and please pay the employee $13,760.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/7205582/Worker-awarded-13k-after-drug-dismissal

[onearmedbandit]

Ha small world Christchurch, I know Johnny, Danny and the owner of CCL quite well. Don't know the toker though. I would've fired his arse as well, although I would've made sure it stuck.

[mashman]

:killingme... he'll not be able to claim for any benefit then. I'm more than happy for people to be fired for being pissed or stoned at work... shame the business got hammered for it.

[Oakie]

:killingme... he'll not be able to claim for any benefit then. I'm more than happy for people to be fired for being pissed or stoned at work... shame the business got hammered for it.

Process, process, process. It's all about the process. Sigh :facepalm:
If only the boss had taken a day to get the guy's feedback then taken a few more hours to (appear to) consider what he had said before sacking his stupid arse all would have been good. Still...$13k for a bad process when the sacking was so justifiable is pretty steep.

[jellywrestler]

tough allegation, How did they know what Marijuana smells like?

[mashman]

tough allegation, How did they know what Marijuana smells like?

:rofl: irrespective of my younger stoner years, I've yet to turn up to work and have a smoke... turned up still pissed a few times... possibly quite a few. Achually tell a lie, we did help a guy build his house and it was he who skinned up at lunchtime, damn good man... perfect after a night mushied oota oor minds and OMG we didn't fall off the roof or injure ourselves even though we had no skills, were stoned on a comedown and worked 30 feet from the ground sometimes. Other than that nope, never did it irrespective of opportunity, just in case.

[rustic101]

tough allegation, How did they know what Marijuana smells like?

I've heard it has a distinctive smell and only an extremely naive individual would not be able to figure out the difference between Port Royal and a bit of cabbage... Heard even the legal herbal smokes smells different, however I could be wrong :eek5:

[Winston001]

The thing is - if you catch somebody smoking an odd-smelling rollie on the job, what do you do? You can't (as a civilian) search him or his tobacco. You cannot require him to submit to an immediate drug/blood test.

[oldrider]

ERA, Just another example of socialism gone crazy! ... New Zealand ... "Land of the long dope cloud" ... :wacko:

[SMOKEU]

The thing is - if you catch somebody smoking an odd-smelling rollie on the job, what do you do? You can't (as a civilian) search him or his tobacco. You cannot require him to submit to an immediate drug/blood test.

It's none of your business anyway, so why would you want to do anything?

[Grubber]

It's none of your business anyway, so why would you want to do anything?

If your the employer then it becomes very much your business. That's why you would want to do anything.
As a concerned citizen, i would make it my business too. as i don't tend to like dope heads!

[SMOKEU]

If your the employer then it becomes very much your business. That's why you would want to do anything.
As a concerned citizen, i would make it my business too. as i don't tend to like dope heads!

So just because some people who toke up are "dope heads", that doesn't mean they all are. Some black people are thieves too, but does that mean that all blacks are thieves?

[Paul in NZ]

So just because some people who toke up are "dope heads", that doesn't mean they all are. Some black people are thieves too, but does that mean that all blacks are thieves?

Off topic - he was caught doing something illegal and just plain stupid. Should have been kicked off site then and there.

[SMOKEU]

Off topic - he was caught doing something illegal and just plain stupid. Should have been kicked off site then and there.

The only thing "plan stupid" is the laws that make it illegal in the first place, when far more dangerous and addictive substances such as alcohol and tobacco are legal.

[HenryDorsetCase]

The only thing "plan stupid" is the laws that make it illegal in the first place, when far more dangerous and addictive substances such as alcohol and tobacco are legal.
So if he had been drinking (on a buildingsite) that would be ok?

[GrayWolf]

The only thing "plan stupid" is the laws that make it illegal in the first place, when far more dangerous and addictive substances such as alcohol and tobacco are legal.
So lets give you a quick scenario... Pilot in charge of a 'vehicle' with maybe 400+ people on board, traveling at 120kph on landing, stoned out of his tree..... you're one of the passengers, do ya feel safe?



It's none of your business anyway, so why would you want to do anything?

Wrong... I work in a 'safety critical' industry, any incident requires an immediate drug etc test to be done. We can refuse, but that can carry severe implications during the investigation process.

[5150]

So lets give you a quick scenario... Pilot in charge of a 'vehicle' with maybe 400+ people on board, traveling at 120kph on landing, stoned out of his tree..... you're one of the passengers, do ya feel safe?



Was thinking the same thing. It is different when someone is for instance a librarian, and very different story when they are in charge of say.... 747 or A380 with couple of hundred lives sitting behind them. Building site is a high hazard area, and I'd like to know that people I work with are responsible safety concious workers. After all my life is in their hands as well.

[SMOKEU]

So if he had been drinking (on a buildingsite) that would be ok?

A beer with lunch would be OK but not if the person is pissed.


So lets give you a quick scenario... Pilot in charge of a 'vehicle' with maybe 400+ people on board, traveling at 120kph on landing, stoned out of his tree..... you're one of the passengers, do ya feel safe?



I wouldn't want a pilot to be high while they're flying. I probably wouldn't want a surgeon to be high either, depending on how complicated or risky the procedure is and how well they can handle it.

[HenryDorsetCase]

I know a guy who drives trains. If there is an incident, ANY sort of incident, the first thing they do is drug test the driver. The second thing usually involves a high pressure hose and a brush pan and shovel and some biohazard bags.

Oh yeah, would I employ Mr Smokeu? No way no how. I dont employ cigarette smokers.

[SMOKEU]

Oh yeah, would I employ Mr Smokeu? No way no how. .

That suits me just fine. I wouldn't want to work for someone so narrow minded and arrogant.

[HenryDorsetCase]

That suits me just fine. I wouldn't want to work for someone so narrow minded and arrogant.

:D

I'm not arrogant, son: just better than you.

[SMOKEU]

:D

I'm not arrogant, son: just better than you.

Good for you.

[tigertim20]

The thing is - if you catch somebody smoking an odd-smelling rollie on the job, what do you do? You can't (as a civilian) search him or his tobacco. You cannot require him to submit to an immediate drug/blood test.
what about when the employee has signed a contract agreeing to 'random drug tests at the request of the employer'?

It's none of your business anyway, so why would you want to do anything?
if you are the employer, it IS your business. The employer needs to know what factors might affect their employees, their safety and the safety of others. These factors include, but are not limited to mental state, sobriety, or lack of, back injuries that make be exacerbated by certain elements of their job, pre existing conditions such as RSI, etc etc etc.

The only thing "plan stupid" is the laws that make it illegal in the first place, when far more dangerous and addictive substances such as alcohol and tobacco are legal.

thats a shit storm you dont want to start right now.

the point is, you are being paid to do as requested, if you dont want to do as requested, then fuck off, end of story.
I wouldnt give a shit what you do in your own time, as long as it doesnt bring my business into direpute, but at work, on MY time, taking MY money to do a job, I expect you to adhere to my requests.

[Grubber]

So just because some people who toke up are "dope heads", that doesn't mean they all are. Some black people are thieves too, but does that mean that all blacks are thieves?

Doesnt matter what color you are, if you smoke dope, then you are a dope head, if you thieve stuff, your a fuckin thief. End of!:crazy:

[caspernz]

Interesting debate, with some disparate views. Here's my reality. I drive fuel tankers for a living, we're randomly drug and alcohol tested. Any incident/accident, first stop is the drug and alcohol test with the company doctor. As for working with fellas who may be impaired by any substance, any driver is authorised to stop a fellow driver from driving out the gate. This works for our crew, we don't want any clowns working amongst us!!

Sucks for an employer to fail on a justified process on a technicality, and have to fork out $13K for it.

[JimO]

if he had a accident on the job and hurt somebody or even himself OSH would have crucified the employer, cant win either way

[tigertim20]

if he had a accident on the job and hurt somebody or even himself OSH would have crucified the employer, cant win either way

egg zachery.

[onearmedbandit]

Doesnt matter what color you are, if you smoke dope, then you are a dope head, if you thieve stuff, your a fuckin thief. End of!:crazy:

Tell me what you mean by 'dope head'.

[SMOKEU]

Doesnt matter what color you are, if you smoke dope, then you are a dope head, if you thieve stuff, your a fuckin thief. End of!:crazy:

So that must mean that all people who drink alcohol are alcoholics according to your logic.

[Winston001]

what about when the employee has signed a contract agreeing to 'random drug tests at the request of the employer'?



Good point but most employment agreements do not have that requirement.

It's argued that random drug testing in many types of jobs is an invasion of privacy and not "good faith". A worker in a supermarket or The Warehouse isn't likely to be doing a job which presents a danger to others so why should they be randomly drug tested?

Whatever, the trade unions argue vigorously against random drug testing and so far their position has been upheld. The exceptions are jobs involving driving, public transport etc, police medical machine operators scaffolders etc etc etc. This particular case is an example where it should have been available.

So yes there are jobs where drug testing (but not necessarily random) is accepted but most jobs - NO.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Good point but most employment agreements do not have that requirement.

It's argued that random drug testing in many types of jobs is an invasion of privacy and not "good faith". A worker in a supermarket or The Warehouse isn't likely to be doing a job which presents a danger to others so why should they be randomly drug tested?

Whatever, the trade unions argue vigorously against random drug testing and so far their position has been upheld. The exceptions are jobs involving driving, public transport etc, police medical machine operators scaffolders etc etc etc. This particular case is an example where it should have been available.

So yes there are jobs where drug testing (but not necessarily random) is accepted but most jobs - NO.

I concur with my learned friend

[tigertim20]

Good point but most employment agreements do not have that requirement.

It's argued that random drug testing in many types of jobs is an invasion of privacy and not "good faith". A worker in a supermarket or The Warehouse isn't likely to be doing a job which presents a danger to others so why should they be randomly drug tested?

Whatever, the trade unions argue vigorously against random drug testing and so far their position has been upheld. The exceptions are jobs involving driving, public transport etc, police medical machine operators scaffolders etc etc etc. This particular case is an example where it should have been available.

So yes there are jobs where drug testing (but not necessarily random) is accepted but most jobs - NO.

Hmm. an interesting conundrum. I can see both sides - I will never refuse a drug test. but, Id probably flop it out and piss all over the boss' desk while laughing 'test this bitch!' if I was asked to do one, purely due to being offended at the request.

I guess the answer is that if employers feel their line of work is something where drug use could be, or cause, an issue, they could write wording into the contract like "... agrees to submit to a drug test at the request of the employer, if the employer believes he has reason to suspect drug or alcohol use in work hours" something where the employer has to state their reasoning specifically.

I dont care, i dont do the stuff, I dont turn up to work hammered and never will, Im enough of a cunt to people my job is probably on the brink 90% of the time anyway!:yes:

[puddytat]

talking about Train Drivers...


<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/bpx7uM-5Y3Q" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Winston001]

http://youtu.be/_kMw_Sx_nCY

[AllanB]

I've been drunk on KB a few times...........

[Akzle]

So lets give you a quick scenario... Pilot in charge of a 'vehicle' with maybe 400+ people on board, traveling at 120kph on landing, stoned out of his tree..... you're one of the passengers, do ya feel safe?
yes i do. if someone with the wherewithal to learn to fly commercial aircraft, decides that he is competent enough to do so after consuming weed, so be it.


I wouldn't want a pilot to be high while they're flying. I probably wouldn't want a surgeon to be high either, depending on how complicated or risky the procedure is and how well they can handle it.again. being a surgeon is not the kind of job that WINZ is going to find you. it takes a fair bit of skill and a good mind, if that individual decides to consume weed, that doesn't concern me.


what about when the employee has signed a contract agreeing to 'random drug tests at the request of the employer'? that would be an illegal contract and null and void. a private contract cannot supersede legislation.

while i agree with the sentiment, and an employer's rights to not want to/ employ people who do use drugs is fair enough., and to not be using them at work, most certainly.

that said. i've used and been witness to use (on the clock) in several industries, most notably/"dangerously" engineering and construction. total harm witnessed as a result of it, over ~ decade= exactly 0.

i dont think matt oconnel will be getting another job in the industry any time soon, he'll be eligible for the benny after 10 or 13 weeks (enough time to blow his payout/settlement) and thereafter no employer is going to want to touch the cunt, another fuckarse on welfare who doesn't need to be, just because pot is illegal

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJpP7ZId-mc

[Big Dave]

I was talking to a well qualified pal. To whit:

There are 'checks and balances' in place to prevent poor schmucks from being taken advantage of by unscrupulous employers.

These laws clearly specify the steps necessary for an employer to (I'll be back) terminate.

No matter how egregious the offense the procedure has to be followed or the law will bite the employer's arse first.

To that end it may not be 'justice' but it is the law - and that's why good managers command the salary they do. They can exit a douche with finesse and no PG.

Even a manager in small business has to know the rules or it all starts at around $8k.

The alternative is returning to practices like hiring a star performer away from a competitor with only the intention of firing them and removing them from an industry - eg.

[Bikemad]

blah blah blah and how well they can handle it.
compared to what............how are you gonna measure that.........

[SMOKEU]

compared to what............how are you gonna measure that.........

Since you're clearly incapable of participating in a mature discussion I'm not going to dignify that with a response. You should also learn to spell properly if you want to be taken seriously.

[GrayWolf]

yes i do. if someone with the wherewithal to learn to fly commercial aircraft, decides that he is competent enough to do so after consuming weed, so be it.
again. being a surgeon is not the kind of job that WINZ is going to find you. it takes a fair bit of skill and a good mind, if that individual decides to consume weed, that doesn't concern me. :brick: Drug and alcohol use in pilots can have a detrimental impact on aviation safety. Important cognitive and psychomotor functions necessary for safe operation of an aircraft can be significantly impaired by drugs and alcohol.
http://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/2006/b20060169_001.aspx

that would be an illegal contract and null and void. a private contract cannot supersede legislation. Sorry sonny, I work in 'heavy engineering/industry'.. even our Union has agreed to a random drug test policy... you can argue legislation all you want.. as soon as the words 'SAFETY CRITICAL' are uttered for a workplace? What you think is 'legislation', goes out the window.. trust me!!

while i agree with the sentiment, and an employer's rights to not want to/ employ people who do use drugs is fair enough., and to not be using them at work, most certainly.

that said. i've used and been witness to use (on the clock) in several industries, most notably/"dangerously" engineering and construction. total harm witnessed as a result of it, over ~ decade= exactly 0. BOllox it doesnt cause fatalities .... The FRA also found, after a review of accident investigation reports, that, from 1972 to 1983, the nation's railroads experienced at least 21 significant train accidents involving alcohol or drug use as a probable cause or contributing factor, and that these accidents resulted in 25 fatalities, 61 non-fatal injuries, and property damage estimated at $19 million (approximately $27 million in 1982 dollars)......
http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/historics/USSC_CR_0489_0602_ZO.html

i dont think matt oconnel will be getting another job in the industry any time soon, he'll be eligible for the benny after 10 or 13 weeks (enough time to blow his payout/settlement) and thereafter no employer is going to want to touch the cunt, another fuckarse on welfare who doesn't need to be, just because pot is illegal

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJpP7ZId-mc

Even if pot were legal.. in some jobs as pointed out by another poster, ANY incident results in operators being subjected to a 'statutory' drug/alcohol test being conducted.

[Akzle]

"...Drug and alcohol use in pilots can have a detrimental impact on aviation safety. Important cognitive and psychomotor functions necessary for safe operation of an aircraft can be significantly impaired by drugs and alcohol

...The FRA also found, after a review of accident investigation reports, that, from 1972 to 1983, the nation's railroads experienced at least 21 significant train accidents involving alcohol or drug use as a probable cause or contributing factor, "

here's my problem with these "statistics": particularly alcohol but also other drugs being used to taint the good name of cannabis.

i would say most regular users loose no cognitive function, motor-skills or ability to do complex /techincal shit. basically anything i can do "straight" i can do after a joint. the difference being that after a joint i'm going to do it quicker and enjoy it more, and if i do encounter problems i'm going to come up with solutions i otherwise might not have.

[Katman]

yes i do. if someone with the wherewithal to learn to fly commercial aircraft, decides that he is competent enough to do so after consuming weed, so be it.

How about doing a bungy jump (http:http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/3969919/Long-list-of-adventure-tourism-mishaps) at Rainbow's End with a stoned operator?

[Akzle]

How about doing a bungy jump at Rainbow's End with a stoned operator?
i'm not really into jumping off perfectly good structures, for any reason.
that said. i was with my cousins and their mates some years ago at gravity canyon having a toke with their guide pre-bungy-swing-flying-foxery.

i'm not sure if you need a qualification to throw people off bridges... but there was that girl who got pushed off sans-rope.. and the op wasn't even stoned. i reckon it's an inherently stupid thing to do.

abseiling on the other hand, i have and would do stoned, 300ft descents... only a few knots and small bits of steel between you and gravity induced internal hemorrhaging. numnum.


as far as rainbows end... that's auckland. south auckland.

i think i've made my point.

[SMOKEU]

i would say most regular users loose no cognitive function, motor-skills or ability to do complex /techincal shit. basically anything i can do "straight" i can do after a joint. the difference being that after a joint i'm going to do it quicker and enjoy it more, and if i do encounter problems i'm going to come up with solutions i otherwise might not have.
[/COLOR]

Finally, someone who speaks sense.

[Big Dave]

Finally, someone who speaks sense.

There were others - but they forgot.

[tigertim20]

i would say most regular users loose no cognitive function, motor-skills or ability to do complex /techincal shit. basically anything i can do "straight" i can do after a joint. the difference being that after a joint i'm going to do it quicker and enjoy it more, and if i do encounter problems i'm going to come up with solutions i otherwise might not have.
[/COLOR]

thats your opinion, got studies/facts to support it?

Id be willing to bet your previous employers would disagree if theyd had a chance to analyze it for themselves.
If you have had a drink or two, or a joint, you are in no position to be judging your own ability.

[HenryDorsetCase]

There were others - but they forgot.

Fuck it Dude, lets go bowling.

[Big Dave]

Yeah. Enough with the Nihilists.

[Akzle]

thats your opinion, got studies/facts to support it?

Id be willing to bet your previous employers would disagree if theyd had a chance to analyze it for themselves.
If you have had a drink or two, or a joint, you are in no position to be judging your own ability.

i could ask the same of you (facts)
short answer, no. but i'm sure there's some statistics that i can interpret to suit my message.

i've smoked with my employers. i've smoked with my employees. as said, i've never seen any incidents that could be even remotely connected to cannabis use, much less any harm.

[Winston001]

Fuck it Dude, lets go bowling.


Yeah. Enough with the Nihilists.

.....is this a Cheech and Chong moment...?? :doobey:

[Bikemad]

Since you're clearly incapable of participating in a mature discussion I'm not going to dignify that with a response. You should also learn to spell properly if you want to be taken seriously.

i ask you again what methods would you employ to determine how well or not someone "can handle it" and to what scale is it measured against........................throw some more abuse if it gives ya the jollies as i suspect you have no mature unbiased answer to this question anyway

[Big Dave]

.....is this a Cheech and Chong moment...?? :doobey:

It's a Lebowski moment.

Your homework is to obtain a copy of 'The Big Lebowski'. (I got mine off iTunes).
This is one of the all time greatest films ever.
The Dude abides.


<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/39ZLQ0jjAew?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen=""></iframe>

[Oakie]

Just to add another dimension: the term 'instant dismissal' does not refer to dismissal at the end of an event that warrants dismissal (like someone punching your best customer in the face). 'Instant' means dismissal with no notice at the end of a disciplinary process.

[skippa1]

i would say most regular users loose no cognitive function, motor-skills or ability to do complex /techincal shit. basically anything i can do "straight" i can do after a joint. the difference being that after a joint i'm going to do it quicker and enjoy it more, and if i do encounter problems i'm going to come up with solutions i otherwise might not have.
[/COLOR]


Finally, someone who speaks sense.

as judged by someone stoned.....yeah good one. Its interesting how stoners solve problems, theres all sorts of programs on Sky that show stoners solving problems in all sorts of manners.....some of it is quite fucken funny to watch......and at the time it all makes perfect sense to them

[Akzle]

as judged by someone stoned.....yeah good one.
it's nothing to do with stoned or not. this morning the only drugs i've imbibed is nicotine and coffee. (nice arabic coffee, a la arab uncle) that shit will get you tweaked.

as said. i know plenty of intlligent people you would write off as "stoners" - and i can guarantee i can find one to beat you at whatever your specialty is, except pissing and moaning, belittling other people for their lifesyle choices, or biggotry. i just don't associate with those types...

[SMOKEU]

i ask you again what methods would you employ to determine how well or not someone "can handle it" and to what scale is it measured against........................throw some more abuse if it gives ya the jollies as i suspect you have no mature unbiased answer to this question anyway

If it doesn't negatively affect their job performance, then there's no problem.


as judged by someone stoned.....yeah good one. Its interesting how stoners solve problems, theres all sorts of programs on Sky that show stoners solving problems in all sorts of manners.....some of it is quite fucken funny to watch......and at the time it all makes perfect sense to them

Only someone completely ignorant to the facts would say something as stupid as what you just did. :facepalm:

[onearmedbandit]

it's nothing to do with stoned or not. this morning the only drugs i've imbibed is nicotine and coffee. (nice arabic coffee, a la arab uncle) that shit will get you tweaked.

as said. i know plenty of intlligent people you would write off as "stoners" - and i can guarantee i can find one to beat you at whatever your specialty is, except pissing and moaning, belittling other people for their lifesyle choices, or biggotry. i just don't associate with those types...

Must spread some rep....


as judged by someone stoned.....yeah good one. Its interesting how stoners solve problems, theres all sorts of programs on Sky that show stoners solving problems in all sorts of manners.....some of it is quite fucken funny to watch......and at the time it all makes perfect sense to them

It cracks me up, non-smokers getting up on the high (excuse the pun) horse about how much better they are than smokers.

Are you 'better' than Sir Richard Branson, a regular smoker, who smokes with his 21yr old son, who has openly said there is nothing wrong with smoking marijuana and would sell it if it was legal?

How about Rick Steves, international travel writer, author of 27 travel books, has his own TV and radio show and is a very outspoken campaigner of marijuana and a member of NORML?

What about Michael Phelps?

Stephen King? Ted Turner?

Really the list goes on and on.

Do some research before making yourself look even more ignorant.

[skippa1]

If it doesn't negatively affect their job performance, then there's no problem.



Only someone completely ignorant to the facts would say something as stupid as what you just did. :facepalm:

I could out smoke the smokeist smokers with the best of ya. In fact my old song went something like,
Roll roll roll a joint
Gently twist the ends
Light it up and take a toke
And pass it to your friends

And I was fuckin awesome at doing stuff.....I could do your stuff better than you could, in fact I was the best at doing stuff when I got really toasted.
Funny thing though.....I wouldnt be where I am, and I am somewhere worth while, until I woke up and gave up. And all that stuff that I was doing really awesome, I wasnt doing so well I found out, and some stuff I struggled with, ended up being the building blocks for a very successful career.
Then, when I watched my own son go through cannibis induced psychosis 15 years later and wrestle with him in his desperation as he pulled a loaded shot gun on his family (me).....it finally really sunk in. I had police around, I had to sell up my hunting firearms, he lost his gun licence and his much loved hobby, cannibis turned a healthy well adjusted kid into a depressed and not so useful member of society. He now wants to get back on track and cant due to convictions. He has lost neary 10 years of his life and possibly a good future. In his group of friends that came through the same school together, about 50% have ended up like him. Unemployed and desperate.

You may choose to call me ignorant, but I think I may actually know more than you do about it...... I have been full circle.:blink:

[skippa1]

Do some research before making yourself look even more ignorant.

I never said I was better than anyone, I just said they not be as good as they think they are.....

And as for research, Ive done more in depth research than you think, from both sides. See my last post.

[onearmedbandit]

I never said I was better than anyone, I just said they not be as good as they think they are.....

And as for research, Ive done more in depth research than you think, from both sides. See my last post.

The way you come across is that you seem to have a superiority complex over 'stoners'. I'm sure Richard Branson would love to hear how much better you think he could be or do if he didn't smoke.

Your research? I read your post. It seems to be based on your own personal experiences. That to me is not research, that's experience. Research famous and successful smokers, I'm sure you'll be quite surprised. I know heavy smokers who hold down good jobs, who own businesses, who employ people. That's my experience. I also know smokers who do fuck all. I also know non smokers who are successful, and those that amount to very little.

My point is you can not solely lay the blame at the feet of the 'drug'. It lies with the person involved. Unfortunately marijuana does attract some less desirable members of society. Mind you, so does motorcycling.

[SMOKEU]

I could out smoke the smokeist smokers with the best of ya. In fact my old song went something like,
Roll roll roll a joint
Gently twist the ends
Light it up and take a toke
And pass it to your friends

And I was fuckin awesome at doing stuff.....I could do your stuff better than you could, in fact I was the best at doing stuff when I got really toasted.
Funny thing though.....I wouldnt be where I am, and I am somewhere worth while, until I woke up and gave up. And all that stuff that I was doing really awesome, I wasnt doing so well I found out, and some stuff I struggled with, ended up being the building blocks for a very successful career.
Then, when I watched my own son go through cannibis induced psychosis 15 years later and wrestle with him in his desperation as he pulled a loaded shot gun on his family (me).....it finally really sunk in. I had police around, I had to sell up my hunting firearms, he lost his gun licence and his much loved hobby, cannibis turned a healthy well adjusted kid into a depressed and not so useful member of society. He now wants to get back on track and cant due to convictions. He has lost neary 10 years of his life and possibly a good future. In his group of friends that came through the same school together, about 50% have ended up like him. Unemployed and desperate.

You may choose to call me ignorant, but I think I may actually know more than you do about it...... I have been full circle.:blink:

How can you prove that cannabis caused your sons psychosis? While it is sad to hear about your sons predicament, there is no evidence to suggest that it was caused by cannabis and not a pre existing medical condition. Presenting a firearm on someone does not sound like something that a person would do solely due to their cannabis use. I know that since it's so close to home you are looking for answers and want something to blame, but it pays to keep an open mind and blaming cannabis does not solve the problem; it is merely a scapegoat for a serious mental health condition. I have never known of anyone who goes around committing crime just because they're high on cannabis. It doesn't work that way.

[onearmedbandit]

If cannabis use triggered psychosis in people we would see a lot higher rate of violent attacks stemming from cannabis use. Don't blame the drug, look at the bigger picture. It's all I'm saying.

[skippa1]

How can you prove that cannabis caused your sons psychosis? While it is sad to hear about your sons predicament, there is no evidence to suggest that it was caused by cannabis and not a pre existing medical condition. Presenting a firearm on someone does not sound like something that a person would do solely due to their cannabis use. I know that since it's so close to home you are looking for answers and want something to blame, but it pays to keep an open mind and blaming cannabis does not solve the problem; it is merely a scapegoat for a serious mental health condition. I have never known of anyone who goes around committing crime just because they're high on cannabis. It doesn't work that way.

nup. You guys just dont seem to listen.....really, you dont. He may or may not (though may is most likely) was predisposed to psychosis as it was, but cannibis has brought that on. I am not looking to blame anything because it is "close to home", I have been through a whole lot more that has contributed to my view than this, I have more than one child, they have groups of friends, I have sought proffesional help, I have read and reasearched even had another go at it to confirm my views. NO just because a person is stoned, they are not going to present a firearm I gree, but a person that is depressed when they come down, is having trouble coping with life without drugs.....is very capable. You have to remember, its a flip of a coin that psycosis or other mental disorders are brought on by drugs and it can happen to anyone at any time.

[skippa1]

If cannabis use triggered psychosis in people we would see a lot higher rate of violent attacks stemming from cannabis use. Don't blame the drug, look at the bigger picture. It's all I'm saying.

how do you know the violent attacks we see are not triggered by cannibis use not being stoned just by use and its effects.

[skippa1]

The way you come across is that you seem to have a superiority complex over 'stoners'. I'm sure Richard Branson would love to hear how much better you think he could be or do if he didn't smoke.

Your research? I read your post. It seems to be based on your own personal experiences. That to me is not research, that's experience. Research famous and successful smokers, I'm sure you'll be quite surprised. I know heavy smokers who hold down good jobs, who own businesses, who employ people. That's my experience. I also know smokers who do fuck all. I also know non smokers who are successful, and those that amount to very little.

My point is you can not solely lay the blame at the feet of the 'drug'. It lies with the person involved. Unfortunately marijuana does attract some less desirable members of society. Mind you, so does motorcycling.

I dont feel superior.....I feel sad. I feel sad that we try to normalise and rationalise with the view that some have been succesful in business even though they smoke. How many Richard Bransons are there?...Just one I think. Show me one Richard Branson and I will raise you 10 just like my son.:blink:in fact make it 100, I think I will win the hand

[Winston001]

It's a Lebowski moment.

Your homework is to obtain a copy of 'The Big Lebowski'. (I got mine off iTunes).
This is one of the all time greatest films ever.
The Dude abides.




Kwl. Its one of the few excellent movies I've not quite got around to.

[Big Dave]

If cannabis use triggered psychosis in people we would see a lot higher rate of violent attacks stemming from cannabis use.

I don't know of any that get violent - but Weed can exacerbate existing psychosis - some dudes can be straight and normal - spliff up and it's 'Panic Attack' city.

[Katman]

nup. You guys just dont seem to listen.....really, you dont. He may or may not (though may is most likely) was predisposed to psychosis as it was, but cannibis has brought that on. I am not looking to blame anything because it is "close to home", I have been through a whole lot more that has contributed to my view than this, I have more than one child, they have groups of friends, I have sought proffesional help, I have read and reasearched even had another go at it to confirm my views. NO just because a person is stoned, they are not going to present a firearm I gree, but a person that is depressed when they come down, is having trouble coping with life without drugs.....is very capable. You have to remember, its a flip of a coin that psycosis or other mental disorders are brought on by drugs and it can happen to anyone at any time.

Are you related to Edbear?

[jrandom]

I started smoking cannabis in my early 20s after a fair amount of research and careful consideration. Never regretted it. The herb enriches my life.

Can't smoke or eat it at the moment because I'm working in construction and I'm subject to random testing. C'est la vie. My future career plans will probably keep me in that position. I'll survive. It's a nice-to-have, not an essential. The Aotearoa Legalise Cannabis Party will continue to get my party vote every election, however. If everyone reading this thread who agreed with me on the topic, and all their friends who agreed with them, did the same, we might see legalisation within this decade.

Probably won't happen that quickly, because people are apathetic. Canada and several states of the USA are pretty much there already, though, so there's hope.

And when it comes to the popular perception of people who smoke cannabis generally losing at life, well - it's done me no harm, and I know plenty of individuals in the same boat. Intelligent, hard-working guys who make the world a better place and happen to enjoy being stoned.

I say take the warning labels off everything and let people be responsible for themselves. Cannabis doesn't make smart people stupid, it doesn't make sane people insane, and it doesn't make energetic people lazy. Unless you're so goddamn intoxicated that all you can do is go to sleep, you're still in control of your own choices.

[jrandom]

nup. You guys just dont seem to listen.....really, you dont. He may or may not (though may is most likely) was predisposed to psychosis as it was, but cannibis has brought that on.

That's like blaming someone's clinical depression and eventual suicide on the fact that it was raining that day.

[SMOKEU]

but a person that is depressed when they come down, is having trouble coping with life without drugs.....is very capable..

That's true with methamphetamine and other hard drugs such as cocaine, but cannabis users do not "come down" like hard drug users and it's not physically addictive where they can't cope without it. Once the buzz wears off the user may get the munchies and feel quite relaxed, but that's it. I have never once met a person who becomes violent after smoking pot. I have, however, met plenty of people who are nice when they're sober, yet become violent when they're under the effects of alcohol. It's alcohol that causes the vast majority of substance abuse harm, not cannabis.

[jrandom]

It's alcohol that causes the vast majority of substance abuse harm, not cannabis.

Sure does. And I'd challenge any NZ cop to disagree with that.

As a side point, I'd like to make it clear that I don't approve of anyone working while not sober. Do what you want in your own time with my blessing, but if anyone turned up of a morning drunk or stoned to work in my crew, they'd be up the road without a second chance.

Well, at least a week or two of unpaid leave to meditate upon their sins before coming back to redeem themselves.

I devoutly hope that drug-testing technology will eventually allow us to easily and cheaply test people in the workplace for actual impairment, rather than just evidence of historical drug use. It'll require blood tests, because hair and urine testing shows metabolites (ie, what the body leaves over after the fact, as opposed to the actual substances that are active in the central nervous system) for days or weeks after any intoxicating effect has ceased. Right now, workplace blood testing is expensive and impractical, and all you can do to keep your piss clean if you want to work in a tested industry is abstain.

Unfortunately, most people involved with workplace testing - Health & Safety managers and the people who run the drug testing companies - are actually unaware of this distinction, and think that being "detectable in the system" means that someone's under the influence.

It's not hard to explain to them. I've tried and succeeded. But it's impossible to implement, because construction sites and forestry operations and suchlike don't have special refrigerators and registered nurses on site and all that jazz.

The working-while-stoned guy the OP references was fortunate enough to be employed by a knuckle-dragging mouth-breather who didn't understand the necessity of due process when terminating an employee. Turn up to work with a hip-flask or a bag of bud and, yeah, your arse should be fired. His termination was justified, but it was done incorrectly.

Even so... when I was a bicycle courier, a solid percentage of the pedal and motor bike couriers in Auckland worked stoned. A mate of mine used to get on the RT and announce to the dispatcher that he was going to roll himself a half-and-half and wouldn't be available to take jobs for the next ten minutes. Never seemed to do any of them any harm. Wasn't something I could handle, but, horses for courses. All very naughty and stuff, but there you go. When was the last time you heard of an Auckland motorcycle courier causing a crash in traffic?

[onearmedbandit]

I don't know of any that get violent - but Weed can exacerbate existing psychosis - some dudes can be straight and normal - spliff up and it's 'Panic Attack' city.

And alcohol might just do the same. And acid etc etc etc. It's the person, not the drug. A gun by itself can't kill another human. A gun in the right hands won't kill another person. But put that gun in the wrong hands...

[onearmedbandit]

I dont feel superior.....I feel sad. I feel sad that we try to normalise and rationalise with the view that some have been succesful in business even though they smoke. How many Richard Bransons are there?...Just one I think. Show me one Richard Branson and I will raise you 10 just like my son.:blink:in fact make it 100, I think I will win the hand

Sad. Do you know what is sad? That you can't seem to accept that some people can function normally, and to their best even though they smoke marijuana. That's sad.

Just the one? Sure there is only one Richard Branson. But there are many many other successful people who smoke it regularly. Like I said, do some research. Then come and show me your 100. And provide evidence that marijuana was the only factor involved. That means no alcohol use, no p, no acid, no environmental issues. I know many smokers, as I've said before, who lead successful lives with no problems. Even those with other issues.

I'm not doubting there are some people that shouldn't smoke it. These same people probably shouldn't drink or take any other drugs. But that's like blaming guns for killing people. Guns don't, people do. In the right hands a gun is perfectly safe to another human. In the wrong hands (as you've experienced) they are not. Where do you stand on guns?

[HenryDorsetCase]

.....is this a Cheech and Chong moment...?? :doobey:

BIG LEBOWSKI

They're nihilists, Dude, they don't believe in anything

[Usarka]

BIG LEBOWSKI

They're nihilists, Dude, they don't believe in anything

Yeah well you know that's just like your opinion man.

[Big Dave]

Yeah well you know that's just like your opinion man.

Don't fuck with the Jesus man.

[HenryDorsetCase]

That rug really tied the room together.

[Big Dave]

What's Nam got to do with it Walter?

[skippa1]

Are you related to Edbear?

wash yer mouth out:shit:

[skippa1]

?


?

Seriously, I have voiced my opinion, I know they like arseholes blah blah and you guys are entitled to yours.....blah blah. I also know that I am not going to change your minds so endless debate isnt too worth while. Good points from both sides and obviously strong feeling.....I still dont agree with a lot of what has been said, but its strokes for folks

[Akzle]

He may or may not (though may is most likely) was predisposed to psychosis as it was, ...its a flip of a coin that psycosis or other mental disorders are brought on by drugs and it can happen to anyone at any time.
an therein lies the answer. i do not believe dope can induce mental illness. other drugs, certainly (and it may be that he was doing them too, you just didn't know) but dope is fairly safe, in my exp.

Show me one Richard Branson and I will raise you 10 just like my son.:blink:in fact make it 100, I think I will win the hand
unfortunately that speaks more toward your parenting than it does against dope.


I say take the warning labels off everything and let people be responsible for themselves. Cannabis doesn't make smart people stupid, it doesn't make sane people insane, and it doesn't make energetic people lazy. Unless you're so goddamn intoxicated that all you can do is go to sleep, you're still in control of your own choices.
i want to see more warning labels! just as they've done with ciggies i think they should paint every car bonnet with horrific crashes and brain-injuries and retards... see if that brings down crashes the way it was supposed to bring down smoking.....
paint city billboards with CO poisoned lungs,
put vomit stained labels on liquor bottles,
put all the side effects of viagra, paracetamol, and prescription drugs, on their packets....

[Usarka]

i do not believe dope can induce mental illness. other drugs, certainly (and it may be that he was doing them too, you just didn't know) but dope is fairly safe, in my exp.


Yeah, all those scientic studies are just theoretical bullshit. Those university dumbarses wouldn't have a clue what dope does in practice.

[skippa1]

unfortunately that speaks more toward your parenting than it does against dope.

..

Within all of this discussion I have tried to refrain from personal attack or name calling, but you dont know anything about me as a parent. Nothing. You speak with authority on matters you clearly have no substance in.:blink:

[Akzle]

Yeah, all those scientic studies are just theoretical bullshit. Those university dumbarses wouldn't have a clue what dope does in practice.
which studies?? :P

Within all of this discussion I have tried to refrain from personal attack or name calling, but you dont know anything about me as a parent. Nothing. You speak with authority on matters you clearly have no substance in.:blink:
i know only what you've presented here, and can only assume it to be true. those were your words, not mine, i just drew a different conclusion from them.

[98tls]

i know only what you've presented here, and can only assume it to be true. those were your words, not mine, i just drew a different conclusion from them.[/QUOTE]

I conclude someones kicked your arse all the way up to your neck which will explain the shit that comes outta your mouth at times.:niceone:

[HenryDorsetCase]

Seriously, I have voiced my opinion, I know they like arseholes blah blah and you guys are entitled to yours.....blah blah. I also know that I am not going to change your minds so endless debate isnt too worth while. Good points from both sides and obviously strong feeling.....I still dont agree with a lot of what has been said, but its strokes for folks

the rest of us have kind of moved on to the big Lebowski.

Just sayin

[Big Dave]

I don't know about you, but I take comfort in that. It's good knowin' he's out there, the Dude, takin' her easy for all us sinners. Shoosh. I sure hope he makes The finals. Well, that about does her, wraps her all up. Things seem to have worked out pretty good for the Dude and Walter, and it was a pretty good story, don't ya think? Made me laugh to beat the band. Parts, anyway. I didn't like seein' Donny go. But then, I happen to know that there's a little Lebowski on the way. I guess that's the way the whole darned human comedy keeps perpetuatin' it-self, down through the generations, westward the wagons, across the sands a time until we-- aw, look at me, I'm ramblin' again. Wal, uh hope you folks enjoyed yourselves.

[Usarka]

And sometimes the bar, well he eats you.

[Robert Taylor]

It's none of your business anyway, so why would you want to do anything?

As a customer I wouldnt want a builder that takes illegal mind altering substances, period

[SMOKEU]

As a customer I wouldnt want a builder that takes illegal mind altering substances, period

What if the builder is high on legal party pills or legal synthetic cannabis? The legality should be irrelevant since the laws are completely out of touch of modern society. There are many legal drugs that should be illegal, and illegal drugs that should be legal. Each substance should be judged on its merits, not here-say and speculation from pencil pushers who have no idea or personal experience about what they're talking about.

[Bikemad]

If it doesn't negatively affect their job performance, then there's no problem.


you have not answered the question again to what scale are you going to measure that against? what are you going to compare the results of someone stoned to someone not with?? customer satisfaction....?...employer satisfaction...?

[SMOKEU]

you have not answered the question again to what scale are you going to measure that against? what are you going to compare the results of someone stoned to someone not with?? customer satisfaction....?...employer satisfaction...?

How do YOU judge these things, then? It's obvious to anyone with a moderate level of intelligence if someone is significantly impaired just by talking to them and observing them.

[Akzle]

I conclude someones kicked your arse all the way up to your neck which will explain the shit that comes outta your mouth at times.:niceone:
I conclude you're so full of shit it's spilling out the top.:niceone: <_<

[Bikemad]

It's obvious to anyone with a moderate level of intelligence if someone is significantly impaired just by talking to them and observing them.

not if the person with the moderate level of intelligence who is making the call if someone is impaired or not is in fact stoned/impaired himself.....probably not obvious at all.....unless he /she is a stoner as well.....nudge nudge wink wink

has ya mum let you buy a bigger bike yet

[SMOKEU]

not if the person with the moderate level of intelligence who is making the call if someone is impaired or not is in fact stoned/impaired himself.....probably not obvious at all.....unless he /she is a stoner as well.....nudge nudge wink wink

has ya mum let you buy a bigger bike yet

OK then, have you ever thought that some prescription drugs are extremely powerful, far more so than cannabis? How would you feel if you employed someone who showed up to work high on opiates, or benzodiazepine? It's legal, so it must be safe, right?

Oh, and my mum let me buy a GSXR600.

[onearmedbandit]

Oh, and my mum let me buy a GSXR600.

Whatever Chris, we know it is your mum's bike.

[Big Dave]

Whatever Chris, we know it is your mum's bike.

Could be any girl's bike.

[scumdog]

The only thing "plan stupid" is the laws that make it illegal in the first place, when far more dangerous and addictive substances such as alcohol and tobacco are legal.

Mehh, 'cracked record' noises here I fear.....

So welcome to the 'plan stupid (whatever THAT is) laws, enjoy!

OH, BTW, well before your were even a lustful thought in your father-to-bes head alcohol was illegal, making it legal sure fixed all problems cause by it being illegal eh - I guess that's why decriminalising/legalising cannabis will work so well eh...

[Winston001]

the rest of us have kind of moved on to the big Lebowski.

Just sayin

For some reason my brain pairs it with "Being John Malkovich" - another classic.

[mashman]

OH, BTW, well before your were even a lustful thought in your father-to-bes head alcohol was illegal, making it legal sure fixed all problems cause by it being illegal eh - I guess that's why decriminalising/legalising cannabis will work so well eh...

:rofl: and before you were turkey basted into creation cannabis was legal... only to be banned for the profit of industry.

[Macontour]

[QUOTE=Akzle;1130351271]
yes i do. if someone with the wherewithal to learn to fly commercial aircraft, decides that he is competent enough to do so after consuming weed, so be it.

You are joking surely!! Our courts, hospitals and morgues get filled up with people who have a skinfull of booze and think they are competent enough to drive home.

[Bikemad]

OK then, have you ever thought that some prescription drugs are extremely powerful, far more so than cannabis? How would you feel if you employed someone who showed up to work high on opiates, or benzodiazepine? It's legal, so it must be safe, right?

Oh, and my mum let me buy a GSXR600.

ok i will try again you said something along the lines of i would be ok with whomever it was doing whatever it was on whatever drug it was as long "as they could handle it" please define how one could determine just how much or not another person may or may not be stoned/handling it to the detriment or enhancement of said persons performance/ability

congratulations on the new bike......ya mum sounds alright

oh....try not to answer a question with a question this time

[HenryDorsetCase]

What if the builder is high on legal party pills or legal synthetic cannabis? The legality should be irrelevant since the laws are completely out of touch of modern society. There are many legal drugs that should be illegal, and illegal drugs that should be legal. Each substance should be judged on its merits, not here-say and speculation from pencil pushers who have no idea or personal experience about what they're talking about.
No, fool. Most sensible people agree with you.

The issue here is about going to work on drugs or taking drugs at work. all you dope heads have ignored that

[HenryDorsetCase]

How do YOU judge these things, then? It's obvious to anyone with a moderate level of intelligence if someone is significantly impaired just by talking to them and observing them.or you know post mortem blood samples

[Akzle]

You are joking surely!! Our courts, hospitals and morgues get filled up with people who have a skinfull of booze and think they are competent enough to drive home.

please tell me you're kidding....

i'm not talking about the lethal toxin alcohol.
i'm talking about CANNABIS.

i'm also not talking about the average shithead i witness on NZ roads, whose judgment i don't trust sober.
i'm talking about someone who has learned to fly commercial aircraft, no mean feat.

drunk people are stupid.

[jrandom]

all you dope heads have ignored that

Incorrect. I didn't ignore that.

[skippa1]

i know only what you've presented here, and can only assume it to be true. those were your words, not mine, i just drew a different conclusion from them.

Your rebuttal only serves to confirm your shallowness as you take a few phrases from a forum and draw a conclusion about someones lifetime. Having read a lot of your posting, I think you may have narcissistic tendancies at worst, or maybe just questions over your own personal adequacy as you phiosophise over an unachievable utopian world. :tugger:

[Akzle]

Your rebuttal only serves to confirm your shallowness as you take a few phrases from a forum and draw a conclusion about someones lifetime. Having read a lot of your posting, I think you may have narcissistic tendancies at worst, or maybe just questions over your own personal adequacy as you phiosophise over an unachievable utopian world. :tugger:

whatever's gonna get you to sleep at night bro.

may be a bit of both? although narcissism and "questioning personal adequacy" tend to be mutually exclusive concepts...
you may consider utopia unobtainable.. i'm over halfway there.

[skippa1]

whatever's gonna get you to sleep at night bro.

may be a bit of both? although narcissism and "questioning personal adequacy" tend to be mutually exclusive concepts...
you may consider utopia unobtainable.. i'm over halfway there.

only in your mind pal, only in your mind

[Bikemad]

i'm talking about someone who has learned to fly commercial aircraft, no mean feat.

drunk people are stupid.

so you are happy to fly with someone who is stoned at the controls because he passed the test to fly the plane at some point in the past........how about if it was your kids on the plane...not you...how about the doctor at the local emergency ward you have just arrived at with your sick/injured child....the doctors wasted but he can "handle it"

cast ya mind back a year or two...........remember the snowboarder or was it skier who was stripped of the gold medal at whatever event it was because of a positive result for pot....i bet you and ya stoner buddies all cried... foul play,thats not fair,everyone knows pot is not a performance enhancing drug...........unless ya flying a plane or doing brain surgery you would have us believe

[Akzle]

so you are happy to fly with someone who is stoned at the controls because he passed the test to fly the plane at some point in the past........how about if it was your kids on the plane...not you...how about the doctor at the local emergency ward you have just arrived at with your sick/injured child....the doctors wasted but he can "handle it"

cast ya mind back a year or two...........remember the snowboarder or was it skier who was stripped of the gold medal at whatever event it was because of a positive result for pot....i bet you and ya stoner buddies all cried... foul play,thats not fair,everyone knows pot is not a performance enhancing drug...........unless ya flying a plane or doing brain surgery you would have us believe

i've never claimed it was a "performance enhancement drug"

the kinds of people who put 7< years into learning some particular field, be it as a doctor or pilot, are not the kind of people who "toke up and get wasted man!" they clearly posses an intelligence and tenacity that most of "society" does not. i would trust their judgment above that of, say, you, or anyone i met in the street,
as you would probably trust the judgment of a cop over, say, someone who steals car radios for a living.
basically, from what i've seen, read, heard, discussed and generally lived, cannabis use is the cause of exactly no problems.
regular users don't get "wasted"
they're not school kids having a puff then getting the giggles and laughing at everything.
they're not tripping balls and seeing shit.
their perception of time and distance are unaffected, spatial awareness etc.

it seems we are at an impasse, based on your refusal to agree with everything i say. there is little more i can usefully add to this conversation that you'll not dismiss based on... whatever.

i did hear about the medals being stripped for pot. i did cringe.
i did not cry foul play because they voluntarily submitted to the jurisdiction/ rules of the game, and thems rules say no pot. i think they should have given the other competitors a joint and then all run the race again, now that woulda been sport.

FWIW i don't trust doctors anyway. if i had to take my children for surgery i'd rather a doctor that smoked dope than not. it would show that he's not entirely on the pharmac payroll and can think for himself.

[jrandom]

well before your were even a lustful thought in your father-to-bes head alcohol was illegal, making it legal sure fixed all problems cause by it being illegal eh

Not all of them. But it fixed the huge problem of organised crime making money off it.

On a side note, an excellent article on the topic of drug and alcohol testing in the workplace here: http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion-analysis/7237249/Drug-and-alcohol-issues-at-work

[Bikemad]

i've never claimed it was a "performance enhancement drug"

the kinds of people who put 7< years into learning some particular field, be it as a doctor or pilot, are not the kind of people who "toke up and get wasted man!" they clearly posses an intelligence and tenacity that most of "society" does not. i would trust their judgment above that of, say, you, or anyone i met in the street,
as you would probably trust the judgment of a cop over, say, someone who steals car radios for a living.
basically, from what i've seen, read, heard, discussed and generally lived, cannabis use is the cause of exactly no problems.
regular users don't get "wasted"
they're not school kids having a puff then getting the giggles and laughing at everything.
they're not tripping balls and seeing shit.
their perception of time and distance are unaffected, spatial awareness etc.

it seems we are at an impasse, based on your refusal to agree with everything i say. there is little more i can usefully add to this conversation that you'll not dismiss based on... whatever.

i did hear about the medals being stripped for pot. i did cringe.
i did not cry foul play because they voluntarily submitted to the jurisdiction/ rules of the game, and thems rules say no pot. i think they should have given the other competitors a joint and then all run the race again, now that woulda been sport.

FWIW i don't trust doctors anyway. if i had to take my children for surgery i'd rather a doctor that smoked dope than not. it would show that he's not entirely on the pharmac payroll and can think for himself.

wow......what can i say.............how do you know when Akzle is stoned and on the level?..........dribble comes out both sides of his mouth

[XxKiTtiExX]

basically, from what i've seen, read, heard, discussed and generally lived, cannabis use is the cause of exactly no problems.
regular users don't get "wasted"
they're not school kids having a puff then getting the giggles and laughing at everything.
they're not tripping balls and seeing shit.
their perception of time and distance are unaffected, spatial awareness etc.



Are you kidding me? So I take it that regular users smoke the stuff just because they like the taste? Or is there something else I am apparently missing?

[Akzle]

Are you kidding me? So I take it that regular users smoke the stuff just because they like the taste? Or is there something else I am apparently missing?

elevated mood, increased "consciousness", increased apetite, sense of wellbeing, heightened focus, pain relief, increased appreciation of music, art, conversation/human interaction, introversion/philosiphisation (thinking about thinking), stress reduction, enhanced creativity, increased blood flow (reduces muscles tension/stresses, availability of oxygen to body cells)...

i'd say there's quite a lot you're apparently missing....

[HenryDorsetCase]

elevated mood, increased "consciousness", increased apetite, sense of wellbeing, heightened focus, pain relief, increased appreciation of music, art, conversation/human interaction, introversion/philosiphisation (thinking about thinking), stress reduction, enhanced creativity, increased blood flow (reduces muscles tension/stresses, availability of oxygen to body cells)...

i'd say there's quite a lot you're apparently missing....

awful smell
boring conversation
overdependence on Pink Floyd
overwhelming smugness
support of a criminal underclass
lung cancer
lingering toxicity

I'd saytheres quite a lot you're apparently missing

[XxKiTtiExX]

elevated mood, increased "consciousness", increased apetite, sense of wellbeing, heightened focus, pain relief, increased appreciation of music, art, conversation/human interaction, introversion/philosiphisation (thinking about thinking), stress reduction, enhanced creativity, increased blood flow (reduces muscles tension/stresses, availability of oxygen to body cells)...

i'd say there's quite a lot you're apparently missing....

Sorry but I lived with a regular pot smoker, his moods were nasty, off in lala, and when he wasn't off in lala he was sleeping or mowing through a whole packet of biscuits, his sense of well being was down the gurgler (he couldn't even manage pissing into his toilet properly or actually putting sheets on his bed, let alone remembering to wash a used oven tray before it literally grew mould). He had absolutely no focus on anything other than when he was getting his next bag of weed, tension was rife. Getting "wasted" comes before his own kid. He drives while stoned, all over the road, hitting the gravel and having to quickly correct himself which is apparently hilarious to him. (And that isn't even the half of it).

Is there anything else I'm missing here when it comes to your "regular users" theory?

[Akzle]

awful smell
boring conversation
overdependence on Pink Floyd
overwhelming smugness
support of a criminal underclass
lung cancer
lingering toxicity

I'd saytheres quite a lot you're apparently missing


Sorry but I lived with a regular pot smoker, his moods were nasty, off in lala, and when he wasn't off in lala he was sleeping or mowing through a whole packet of biscuits, his sense of well being was down the gurgler (he couldn't even manage pissing into his toilet properly or actually putting sheets on his bed, let alone remembering to wash a used oven tray before it literally grew mould). He had absolutely no focus on anything other than when he was getting his next bag of weed, tension was rife. Getting "wasted" comes before his own kid. He drives while stoned, all over the road, hitting the gravel and having to quickly correct himself which is apparently hilarious to him. (And that isn't even the half of it).

Is there anything else I'm missing here when it comes to your "regular users" theory?

were they pilots or surgeons?

[mashman]

Sorry but I lived with a regular pot smoker, his moods were nasty, off in lala, and when he wasn't off in lala he was sleeping or mowing through a whole packet of biscuits, his sense of well being was down the gurgler (he couldn't even manage pissing into his toilet properly or actually putting sheets on his bed, let alone remembering to wash a used oven tray before it literally grew mould). He had absolutely no focus on anything other than when he was getting his next bag of weed, tension was rife. Getting "wasted" comes before his own kid. He drives while stoned, all over the road, hitting the gravel and having to quickly correct himself which is apparently hilarious to him. (And that isn't even the half of it).

Is there anything else I'm missing here when it comes to your "regular users" theory?

Sorry you had such a bad time with what seems like a useless cnut... but everyone's different and there are plenty of people out there who are like that without being under the influence of anything. Oddly enough my wife prefers me stoned which, unfortunately, only happens once a month or 2 these days. I too know of people who don't handle it well, they're shit drunks as well... so could it be the person that is the issue and not the drug?

[schrodingers cat]

Arguements about drugs are super!

Can someone explain to me if drugs make you stupid or is it the person?.

Please use convoluted logic and personal experience.

[XxKiTtiExX]

were they pilots or surgeons?

Pilot, surgeon, mechanic, checkout operator, unemployed bum. Doesn't make you any less likely to get wasted. Regular user or not.

[XxKiTtiExX]

Sorry you had such a bad time with what seems like a useless cnut... but everyone's different and there are plenty of people out there who are like that without being under the influence of anything. Oddly enough my wife prefers me stoned which, unfortunately, only happens once a month or 2 these days. I too know of people who don't handle it well, they're shit drunks as well... so could it be the person that is the issue and not the drug?

Have seen both sides. Could very well be the person.

[Akzle]

Pilot, surgeon, mechanic, checkout operator, unemployed bum. Doesn't make you any less likely to get wasted. Regular user or not.

okay. while i'm not what i'd call a "regular user" (mainly because i smoked my whole stash and refuse to buy more) - i'll bring a big bag of dope round, and my uncle (who is a regular), and we'll smoke joint for joint (with you), then we can all do some aptitude tests, smoke some more joints, have a few beers, smoke some more joints, then do more tests. hokay?

if cannabis is likely to get everyone "wasted" who consumes it, it should be a short afternoon for you...

[XxKiTtiExX]

okay. while i'm not what i'd call a "regular user" (mainly because i smoked my whole stash and refuse to buy more) - i'll bring a big bag of dope round, and my uncle (who is a regular), and we'll smoke joint for joint (with you), then we can all do some aptitude tests, smoke some more joints, have a few beers, smoke some more joints, then do more tests. hokay?

if cannabis is likely to get everyone "wasted" who consumes it, it should be a short afternoon for you...

I'll pass, I'm not a pilot or a surgeon apparently my fate is sealed.

[Akzle]

I'll pass, I'm not a pilot or a surgeon apparently my fate is sealed.

by your own words.

(not mine)

[Bikemad]

okay. while i'm not what i'd call a "regular user" (mainly because i smoked my whole stash and refuse to buy more) - i'll bring a big bag of dope round, and my uncle (who is a regular), and we'll smoke joint for joint (with you), then we can all do some aptitude tests, smoke some more joints, have a few beers, smoke some more joints, then do more tests. hokay?

if cannabis is likely to get everyone "wasted" who consumes it, it should be a short afternoon for you...

cheers for the red rep princess...........what on earth is that statement above ever going to prove...........you and some of the shit that comes out of your head are the only argument the anti pot brigade ever need.......they don't have to say a word...............keep digging

[Akzle]

cheers for the red rep princess...........what on earth is that statement above ever going to prove...........you and some of the shit that comes out of your head are the only argument the anti pot brigade ever need.......they don't have to say a word...............keep digging

i don't understand the question?

[HenryDorsetCase]

by your own words.

(not mine)

What the hell does that mean? Unless its a demonstration of how drug use destroys cognitive function?

[HenryDorsetCase]

were they pilots or surgeons?

Mate, I was talking about you. How do you like your job at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory?

[jrandom]

Sorry but I lived with a regular pot smoker, his moods were nasty, off in lala, and when he wasn't off in lala he was sleeping or mowing through a whole packet of biscuits, his sense of well being was down the gurgler (he couldn't even manage pissing into his toilet properly or actually putting sheets on his bed, let alone remembering to wash a used oven tray before it literally grew mould). He had absolutely no focus on anything other than when he was getting his next bag of weed, tension was rife. Getting "wasted" comes before his own kid. He drives while stoned, all over the road, hitting the gravel and having to quickly correct himself which is apparently hilarious to him. (And that isn't even the half of it).

Amazing a guy like that managed to breed at all, eh?

[XxKiTtiExX]

Amazing a guy like that managed to breed at all, eh?


Yes it is rather amazing that a guy such as yourself even managed to breed also.

[jrandom]

Yes it is rather amazing that a guy such as yourself even managed to breed also.

We both know how it worked, though, don't we.

I was a good-looking smooth talker with solid prospects, so a woman married me and had my babies.

And he... bumped into someone who needed to qualify for the DPB.

Come to think of it, when you look at it that way, these stoner fullas might be onto something.

:doobey:

[XxKiTtiExX]

We both know how it worked, though, don't we.

I was a good-looking smooth talker with solid prospects, so a woman married me and had my babies.

And he... bumped into someone who needed to qualify for the DPB.

Come to think of it, when you look at it that way, these stoner fullas might be onto something.

:doobey:

Really? Now thats interesting!! :killingme

[Winston001]

Arguements about drugs are super!

Can someone explain to me if drugs make you stupid or is it the person?.

Please use convoluted logic and personal experience.

Who is it?.....






Dave?....














Dave's not here man...

[Big Dave]

'Cocaine is NOT addictive - and I should know - I've been snorting it every day for the last 20 years' - Rita Rudner.

[scumdog]

Pro-cannabis(& other drugs...): Akzle, SMOKEU, mashman & jrandom.:yawn:


Not-so-pro-drugs: The rest.

[Laava]

Drugs are bad mmmkay. If you do drugs then you're bad mmmkay

[SMOKEU]

Pro-cannabis(& other drugs...): Akzle, SMOKEU, mashman & jrandom.:yawn:


Not-so-pro-drugs: The rest.

At least we're not stupid enough to believe that using alcohol is safer than cannabis. Someone has to be smart among the hordes of ignorant fools that plague society.

[Paul in NZ]

At least we're not stupid enough to believe that using alcohol is safer than cannabis. Someone has to be smart among the hordes of ignorant fools that plague society.

Trust me - when you are in the Police bar alcohol is loads safer than cannabis...

[HenryDorsetCase]

At least we're not stupid enough to believe that using alcohol is safer than cannabis. Someone has to be smart among the hordes of ignorant fools that plague society.

my stated position is as it has always been. If you are over 18 you can do what you like. Snort, sniff, smoke, spike whatever. But if and when your behaviour impinges on someone elses rights: for example you support your drug habit by stealing, or putting bitches on the stroll, or robbing pharmacies, then society steps in and sanctions.

Most recreational drug users in my experience are very boring dinner companions. Whereas alcohold drinkers, in moderation*, are wonderful company.


*and sometimes not so much.


And to turn your um "argument" (if thats what it is) around, "At least we drinkers are not blinkered enough to believe that cannabis is the nirvana of mind altering drugs with only positive effects". Bottom line" if it has mind altering consequences, chances are if you do too much of it, it'll fuck you up. Moderation in all things.
- Signed, an ignorant fool.

[SMOKEU]

my stated position is as it has always been. If you are over 18 you can do what you like. Snort, sniff, smoke, spike whatever. But if and when your behaviour impinges on someone elses rights: for example you support your drug habit by stealing, or putting bitches on the stroll, or robbing pharmacies, then society steps in and sanctions.

Most recreational drug users in my experience are very boring dinner companions. Whereas alcohold drinkers, in moderation*, are wonderful company.


*and sometimes not so much.


And to turn your um "argument" (if thats what it is) around, "At least we drinkers are not blinkered enough to believe that cannabis is the nirvana of mind altering drugs with only positive effects". Bottom line" if it has mind altering consequences, chances are if you do too much of it, it'll fuck you up. Moderation in all things.
- Signed, an ignorant fool.

I couldn't agree more. :first:

[scumdog]

At least we're not stupid enough to believe that using alcohol is safer than cannabis. Someone has to be smart among the hordes of ignorant fools that plague society.

And I've never claimed alcohol was 'safer' than cannabis either.

Ban them both to enternity I say...

[mashman]

Ban them both to enternity I say...

but you just can't do that, you can't :crybaby:... WTF is the world coming to

[Macontour]

Who is it?.....
Dave?....
Dave's not here man...


For your enjoyment!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtDAK7Umk7A