How could VTNZ miss this? [Archive]

GTRMAN

7th July 2012, 16:08

The back story....

A couple of years back I was on a bike tour of the south island and the rear shock crapped out (or so I thought) as it was the third shock to do this I decided to buy another bike and get the current one shipped back home. Due to using family to do this it took longer than thought to get it back, two years longer to be more accurate.

In that time I let the rego lapsed so had to have the bike re VIN'd. That went OK, they failed the brake discs for being half a mm to thin, bit gutted but I thought 'fair call' The problem is that the bike, with a new shock, was still riding a bit low so I thought I'd put rising dog bones in to fix that up. Funny thing was that I couldn't get the top bolt out, when I investigated I found THIS....
266031266032266033

Now my question is, how can TWO bike shops and VTNZ miss this? And how can this be deemed safe enough for the road?

Left me gutted as I have given this bike to a mate to use for the long term and felt like an asshole for giving someone an unsafe bike.

JimO

7th July 2012, 16:20

what i cant understand is why you let the rego lapse when its so easy to put it on hold

GTRMAN

7th July 2012, 16:21

what i cant understand is why you let the rego lapse when its so easy to put it on hold

long story, was put on hold......

Akzle

7th July 2012, 16:39

that?
that will buff out.
but you'd best get on to those dangerously low pads...
x - vtnz

p.dath

7th July 2012, 17:06

That is pretty severe damage. Did you buy the bike second hand? I wonder if the bike was damaged when you bought it ...

GTRMAN

7th July 2012, 17:16

That is pretty severe damage. Did you buy the bike second hand? I wonder if the bike was damaged when you bought it ...

Yeah I did.....

Katman

7th July 2012, 17:17

Hyosung by any chance?

I've seen it a couple of times before on the earlier models.

GTRMAN

7th July 2012, 18:18

Hyosung by any chance?

I've seen it a couple of times before on the earlier models.

'97 Bandit 600

Katman

7th July 2012, 18:20

'97 Bandit 600

I did not see that coming.

:gob:

GTRMAN

7th July 2012, 18:25

So if the bike was riding VERY low at the back do you think VTNZ should have picked up on the problem with the swingarm? or is it not something that is checked?

mossy1200

7th July 2012, 18:27

Looks like a home handyman lowering kit.
Or maybe previous owner liked racing.

Katman

7th July 2012, 18:27

So if the bike was riding VERY low at the back do you think VTNZ should have picked up on the problem with the swingarm? or is it not something that is checked?

It most definately should have been picked up on.

Trouble is, they'll just say it wasn't like that at the time they looked at it.

GTRMAN

7th July 2012, 18:29

Looks like a home handyman lowering kit.
Or maybe previous owner liked racing.

I thought that, though the metal looks like it has torn....

Drew

7th July 2012, 20:28

Thing about a re-vin, the extra checking they do is only to make sure that the parts on the bike do not need to be certified to be there. I have recently learned that you can vin a bike with bald tyres, so long as they are marked with the appropriate safety standard marks. They will then be failed come warrant check, a different inspection.

But looking at that swingarm, I think I know why you were moving onto your third shock. Did you change them yourself? Because if you or whoever replaced them in the past didn't notice the issue, why would anyone who didn't have their face squished into the six inch gap between linkages and ground notice it?

FJRider

7th July 2012, 20:36

Now my question is, how can TWO bike shops and VTNZ miss this? And how can this be deemed safe enough for the road?

Have you asked the two bike shops and the VTNZ that same question ... ???

GTRMAN

7th July 2012, 20:41

GTRMAN

7th July 2012, 20:41

Have you asked the two bike shops and the VTNZ that same question ... ???

Mondays task...

mossy1200

7th July 2012, 20:43

Only the latest one, that's how I found this

Was the last owner HUGE with an AMPLE wife?
It just looks so much like a massive load with a shock bottomed out for a lot of riding.

tigertim20

7th July 2012, 21:57

Yes, pretty severe damage, yes, bike shops and vtnz should definitely have picked that up.
BUT its YOUR bike, YOU ride it, YOU own in, YOU should give the thing a good going over on a regular basis so that YOU can be sure the tyres arent bald 3 months before the next WOF is due, or that your brake pads arent worn down three weeks after getting a WOF etc etc. Its just an on the spot exam, its up to YOU to look over your bike for any obvious defects before YOU entrust YOUR life to this contraption.

No, Im not defending the 'professionals' that missed it, but take this as a lesson in personal responsibility, take charge, check your vehicles over before you put yourself and/or your family into/onto them. its YOUR life if it turns to shit.

mossy1200

7th July 2012, 22:17

Wouldnt the bike be almost verticle on the side stand.

SMOKEU

7th July 2012, 22:54

A bit of duct tape and matt black spray paint will make it look mint.

breakaway

8th July 2012, 11:35

Target/Fair Go need to get in on this. Take a totally fucked car/bike, take it to a range of WoF / re-vin places and see how it gets on. The results will be shocking. After airing of the epsiode 'policies' will be put in place, but everything will return to the status quo in 6 months time.

No, Im not defending the 'professionals' that missed it, but take this as a lesson in personal responsibility, take charge, check your vehicles over before you put yourself and/or your family into/onto them. its YOUR life if it turns to shit.

While I agree with you, most people don't know their asshole from a fuel filler cap (not just talking about bikes here). It is impractical and unreasonable to expect everyone to be smart enough that they know how to do a WoF level inspection on their machine each time. You have to be able to trust the 'professionals'. (and I use that term VERY loosely)

While we're on the topic, one of my bikes went through a 'check-over+service' that cost almost $400 at a local shop, and then through a VTNZ re-vin, and it had a totally collapsed bearing in the front wheel. In another incident, I had a certain motorcycle shop forget to put in a rear wheel spacer after changing wheels, luckily caught me just as I was riding out. When I got home, I decided to do a check and found the front fork nut only finger tight about to fall off. Another shop did my clutch in the car. They fucked it up and didn't put the CV joint back in properly. Violent shaking of car at any speed over 40km/h. It fucked up a CV joint. Job sheet said 'road test passed'. Sure they 'fixed' it for free, such incompetence though. It is beyond me how these incompetent 'professionals' stay in business.

avgas

8th July 2012, 12:14

rear shock crapped out (or so I thought) as it was the third shock to do this I decided to buy another bike and get the current one shipped back home.
Sounds to me like you have more money than sense.
I have never had a bike kill 2 shocks. Ever.
Funny thing is shocks had nothing to do with the problem. Turns out you had twisted metal for a swingarm.

Might want to check the stearing head bearings - because I imagine your 3 pairs of new bars haven't fix that problem either.

I mean come on, seriously man WTF!
Blaming VTNZ and bikeshops as well. WTF?

tigertim20

8th July 2012, 12:30

While I agree with you, most people don't know their asshole from a fuel filler cap (not just talking about bikes here). It is impractical and unreasonable to expect everyone to be smart enough that they know how to do a WoF level inspection on their machine each time. You have to be able to trust the 'professionals'. (and I use that term VERY loosely)

.

I agree with the underlined section, but not the rest.
I dont think anyone should own or drive any vehicle without at least a basic understanding of how it works, you trust your life to this thing, you should take the time out of your day to spend a few minutes learning about the fuckin thing. This attitude of 'but its got a warrant of fitness' and 'but the vtnz guy said its fine last month' is bullshit, passing the buck onto someone else for things that people should take the time and effort to look into themselves. You wouldnt send your 5 year old kid to stay at a friends place without checking the parents out and maybe dropping by first to make sure they arent pedophiles, so why would you pout yourself or your family in a vehicle without taking 5 minutes of your time to have some peace of mind? - doing so could save your life one day.

Road kill

8th July 2012, 16:10

They probably missed it the same way you did.<_<

porky

8th July 2012, 16:38

I agree with the underlined section, but not the rest.
I dont think anyone should own or drive any vehicle without at least a basic understanding of how it works, you trust your life to this thing, you should take the time out of your day to spend a few minutes learning about the fuckin thing. This attitude of 'but its got a warrant of fitness' and 'but the vtnz guy said its fine last month' is bullshit, passing the buck onto someone else for things that people should take the time and effort to look into themselves. You wouldnt send your 5 year old kid to stay at a friends place without checking the parents out and maybe dropping by first to make sure they arent pedophiles, so why would you pout yourself or your family in a vehicle without taking 5 minutes of your time to have some peace of mind? - doing so could save your life one day.

Horse shit

Whens the last time you walked around a 747 or airbus before climbing aboard for that trip overseas.......or had a quick check over the surgeons gear before he cut you open. If people put themselves out there as professionals in their own respective fields, then the consumer/ client piece of mind should end there.

If it were okay for us to re vin our own vehicles then i would concure with you comments. However we arnt....due to the fact we are not "professionals" trained or certified in this area.

tigertim20

8th July 2012, 17:23

Horse shit

Whens the last time you walked around a 747 or airbus before climbing aboard for that trip overseas.......or had a quick check over the surgeons gear before he cut you open. If people put themselves out there as professionals in their own respective fields, then the consumer/ client piece of mind should end there.

If it were okay for us to re vin our own vehicles then i would concure with you comments. However we arnt....due to the fact we are not "professionals" trained or certified in this area.

not at all.
the 747 gets walked around before flight, the pilot checks the logs, or should do.
the surgeon will check his tools and make sure they are right for what he needs before opening you up.

Sounds like you are another to blame someone else if something goes to shit.

There is a reason why a WOF is an on the spot check, it doesnt mean that the vehicle will be safe to drive until the expiry date, it means it looked ok to the inspector at the time, and you should come back on xx date.

your vehicle, your responsibility if you are in control of it.

I check my vehicles regularly, regardless of when the last inspection was. All this blame the professional stuff is kinda shit, yes, you should go and complain, you should also recognise that you are the one that uses the thing every day, and that you should take some fuckin time to make sure its ship shape.

avgas

8th July 2012, 17:26

FJRider

8th July 2012, 17:51

There is a reason why a WOF is an on the spot check, it doesnt mean that the vehicle will be safe to drive until the expiry date, it means it looked ok to the inspector at the time, and you should come back on xx date.

According to the last Target program I watched ... not all WoF testers are created equal either.

Fast Eddie

8th July 2012, 18:24

not at all.
the 747 gets walked around before flight, the pilot checks the logs, or should do.
well a team of engineers probably does this actually.. think the large plane pilot checks his instruments in the cockpit.. engineers do the rest. They used to have an onboard engineer during the flights but cost savings mean i think most flights just have pilot and co pilot these days.. but as we see with aviation crash history.. things go unnoticed all the time and then planes rip apart mid air..

the surgeon will check his tools and make sure they are right for what he needs before opening you up.
you would hope so..

There is a reason why a WOF is an on the spot check, it doesnt mean that the vehicle will be safe to drive until the expiry date, it means it looked ok to the inspector at the time, and you should come back on xx date.

nah, but it should mean that at the time of inspection it should be safe to ride on the road.. if you've got serious component failure you would hope they would pick it up.. but meh, if you've chewed through 2/3 rear shock absorbers surely alarm bells would be ringing anyway..

and like plenty of people said. many people have no mechanical knowledge and pay good money for pros to service and maintain their vehicles.. whether its big trucks or scooters or whatever.. I don't think everyone should be expected to be able to maintain their own vehicles. that could even be very dangerous for those that do not know what they are doing and start interfering with things thinking they are doing it right but instead setting up for disaster. eh. anyway - I think a wof place who tests a vehicle for its road worthiness should pick up on basic things like suspension/chassis and brakes..

they have picked me up on a tiny amount of suspect repair/welds on an old car before so they can be thorough if they want to!

Fast Eddie

8th July 2012, 18:27

Don't ask for what you don't want.
No one would get a vin if the vtnz guys got pedantic. Not even brand new bikes.

haha! true but surely there would be somewhere in the middle between not noticing if the car is missing a wheel, and failing brand new cars because there is dust on the windscreen..

Scuba_Steve

8th July 2012, 18:27

Now my question is, how can TWO bike shops and VTNZ miss this? And how can this be deemed safe enough for the road?

Read the back of the sheet, it quite clearly states a WoF is not a safety check it is simply an extortion of money in exchange for a meaningless sticker & they take no responsibility at all. In different words of-course.

Laava

8th July 2012, 18:29

Just before this whole plot gets repixelled into the pink room, I would say that you are probably lucky that you found it the easy way and hope you can fix it easily too!

Fast Eddie

8th July 2012, 18:30

Read the back of the sheet, it quite clearly states a WoF is not a safety check it is simply an extortion of money in exchange for a meaningless sticker & they take no responsibility at all. In different words of-course.

hahah! never read the wof sheets.. must have a read next time

bsasuper

8th July 2012, 18:51

I'm not surprized vtnz and a bike shop missed that, but how did YOU miss that?

avgas

8th July 2012, 19:34

haha! true but surely there would be somewhere in the middle between not noticing if the car is missing a wheel, and failing brand new cars because there is dust on the windscreen..
Just of the top of my head these are new car issues that don't get accepted.....but weren't even on checks for old cars - but have failed wofs (from previous conversations with people).

-Braided brake lines
-Indicator lamps from generic dashs lighting up (more specifically ABS is the usual culprit)
-LED/directional headlamps
-Seat belt alarm systems giving false readings.....

And there are probably 100's more.

Simple fact of the matter - your usually not getting your VIN and WOF from a someone who specialised on your vehicle alone (unlike Pilots and Engineers who from recall take 2 years to get trained......PER AIRCRAFT!).
I am all for lifting the standards for checks - but expect the price to go up substantially (by my calcs by about 10 fold).

porky

8th July 2012, 20:11

not at all.
the 747 gets walked around before flight, the pilot checks the logs, or should do.
the surgeon will check his tools and make sure they are right for what he needs before opening you up.

Sounds like you are another to blame someone else if something goes to shit.

There is a reason why a WOF is an on the spot check, it doesnt mean that the vehicle will be safe to drive until the expiry date, it means it looked ok to the inspector at the time, and you should come back on xx date.

your vehicle, your responsibility if you are in control of it.

I check my vehicles regularly, regardless of when the last inspection was. All this blame the professional stuff is kinda shit, yes, you should go and complain, you should also recognise that you are the one that uses the thing every day, and that you should take some fuckin time to make sure its ship shape.

My point.....that seemed to right over your head was that at some point we must put our hands/ life in that of professionals. You allege that we are "the masters of our own destiny" and as such must take responsibility for our own safety etc. My argument is that you are neither a surgeon or airline pilot and as such wouldnt have a fucking clue as to the airworthyness of a large aircraft or the internal workings of the human being.....so at some point we must allow the professionals to do the job we pay them and keep the fuck out of shit we have no knowledge. (understanding what is expected as an outcome and how one achieves it is what seperates the client from the professional)

....you should also recognise that you are the one that uses the thing every day, and that you should take some fuckin time to make sure its ship shape......Next you will be telling me all those people that died in the CTV building did so because they failed to identify defects in the building?????? or its ability to with stand another significant shake.... No a professional engineer in conjunction with an official from CCC failed to adequately assess the risk (or so it would seem from the prelim findings)

You are either a total professional moron or a professional retard, either way i dont blame you for turning out the way you did (turning to shit)

tigertim20

8th July 2012, 20:23

According to the last Target program I watched ... not all WoF testers are created equal either.
exactly. you cannot rely on a WOF as evidence that a vehicle is safe for the road.

My point.....that seemed to right over your head was that at some point we must put our hands/ life in that of professionals. You allege that we are "the masters of our own destiny" and as such must take responsibility for our own safety etc. My argument is that you are neither a surgeon or airline pilot and as such wouldnt have a fucking clue as to the airworthyness of a large aircraft or the internal workings of the human being.....so at some point we must allow the professionals to do the job we pay them and keep the fuck out of shit we have no knowledge. (understanding what is expected as an outcome and how one achieves it is what seperates the client from the professional)
fuck off,
show me where I said we are the 'masters of our own destiny' - you should get those voices in your head checked out because now you are just making shit up retard.
Its about personal responsibility. You cant just wait for something to go wrong then run around pointing the finger everywhere else, you need to ask yourself what YOU could have done to help the situation.
The point about many people not having a clue is the problem - people should take the time to GET a clue. People are the same worldwide, and there are plenty of places around the world that do not require a warrant of fitness, or any other test for that matter - it is up to the driver of the vehicle to assess its roadworthiness since it is their, and their families life at risk while using it. many of those countries have lower road fatality rates than us, so clearly a WOF has extremely limited value anyway.

....you should also recognise that you are the one that uses the thing every day, and that you should take some fuckin time to make sure its ship shape......Next you will be telling me all those people that died in the CTV building did so because they failed to identify defects in the building?????? or its ability to with stand another significant shake.... No a professional engineer in conjunction with an official from CCC failed to adequately assess the risk (or so it would seem from the prelim findings)

You are either a total professional moron or a professional retard, either way i dont blame you for turning out the way you did (turning to shit)
the ctv building and an airplane are NOT a private motor vehicle dickhead, or does that tiny minute little detail escape your tiny ignorant little mind?
they are commercial vehicles or buildings, which provide for multiple, sometimes hundreds of people, its a totally different matter. A better example would be 'if a bookcase fell over in an earthquake and killed your toddler, is it your fault?' (see how we are talking PERSONAL responsibility, and PERSONAL items/possessions here?) to which I would reply, yes, its your own fucking fault, you should have shit like that secure if you have kids.

GTRMAN

8th July 2012, 20:26

Really not pointing fingers, I was honestly asking if this was something that was checked as part of the vinning process. I have fixed it now.

tigertim20

8th July 2012, 21:15

Really not pointing fingers, I was honestly asking if this was something that was checked as part of the vinning process. I have fixed it now.

I think the question was answered before the shit slinging begun!!!
Yes, it certainly should have been picked up on by them, but them missing it doesnt remove all responsibility from you.
end of the day, its worked out okay, and hopefully a lesson learned by you, to do a few regular checks.

Next time something breaks down on your bike (whether it be a shock or whatever) have a good look around, and make sure you have fixed the cause, rather than just tended to the problem itself.

It may be worth writing to the places where the wofs were obtained, and hope the bosses mention it - but the reply you will get will be something along the lines of 'we make every effort blah blah blah, no evdence that this issue was present at the time of the wof blah blah blah have a nice day'

jonbuoy

8th July 2012, 22:37

Who swapped the three shocks? You or a bike shop?

ducatilover

9th July 2012, 00:18

I'm not getting in to the silly argument. But, fuck you're lucky that didn't let go completely mate!

gammaguy

9th July 2012, 03:44

in my time at a suzuki franchise i saw two GSF600 swingarms do that

built to a price those bandits

5150

9th July 2012, 08:34

well a team of engineers probably does this actually.. think the large plane pilot checks his instruments in the cockpit.. engineers do the rest.

Actually either captain or first officer will do "walk-around" before EVERY flight and visually check the critical parts of the aircraft (brakes, engines, control surfaces etc) Ground engineers will complete periodic checks and maintenance. Each aircraft will also be required to be almost completely stripped down, checked for critical structural damage and reassembled every couple thousand of flight hours.

The only reason there is no engineer on board is because of the glass cockpit era where the computers basically made the engineer obsolite.

And an advice to the OP "Lay off the pies" :shifty:

Botany Honda

9th July 2012, 11:19

Seen the same on an SV650

Paul in NZ

9th July 2012, 11:58

Its all well and good to blame the owner and, being an, erm, older, person I understand where its coming from. Basically while we had WoF back then (written in parchment with a quill) you didn’t really expect your 1946 Austin 8 to go a whole 6 months without needing a tweak – or two. Indeed, our old Morris 8 with cable brakes was driven to a wof very gently; preferably without using the foot brakes otherwise it wouldn’t pass. You got used to being ‘aware’ of what was going on and looked for problems before they happened.

This was also the era of the modifier and you really didn’t need much in the way of certification to alter a vehicle.
In recent years we have seen it amazingly difficult (in comparison) to alter anything on a vehicle except perhaps the colour. We are increasingly MADE to trust the expert because we now don’t have the power to decide if somethings safe or not.

Modern vehicles are also lightyears more advanced. If you take my 1970 Triumph – kick only and good luck getting it to idle unless its had a decent run to warm up. You have to interact with it mechanically at all times whereas you don’t with a new vehicle, not even a choke knob to fiddle with.

We get used to that way of thinking. Eventually your head just refuses to accept that something like this ‘could’ happen to a newer bike. You could look right at it and not really see it.

Fast Eddie

9th July 2012, 13:52

Actually either captain or first officer will do "walk-around" before EVERY flight and visually check the critial parts of the aircraft (brakes, engines, control surfaces etc) Ground engineers will complete periodic checks and maintenance. Each aircraft will also be required to be almost completely stripped down, checked for critical structural damage and reassembled every couple thousand of flight hours.

The only reason there is no engineer on board is because of the glass cockpit era where the computers basically made the engineer obsolite.

hehe.. well thanks to google you can find operating manuals and pre flights checklists for the 747 range of planes..

pre flight/pre engine start.. right thru to taxi and take off.. apparently captain and first officer stays in plane they can check everything via the instruments :D can't trust everything you read online tho.. but also just being around planes so much I'm yet to see a commercial/passenger 747 pilot out on the tarmac himself circling around prior to take off.. they usually rock up with their bags, head straight to the cockpit..

engineers will check engines and aircraft between flights.. I really don't think the pilot does it. The engineer does all the work to the plane, who better to check between flights. Pilot has enough to do eh.
And of course they get stripped down and checked/serviced at certain intervals.. bit of a given.

for smaller/other planes for sure I've seen pilot themselves pre flight check water in fuel and structure etc.

churr!

and I'm pretty sure about the no engineer on board.. I asked O'hare at Otago, head of all the aviation and the flight simulator stuff they do. He did think the major motivator to remove engineer was cost cutting. sure the computers got better. but the workload is still there, u still have to monitor everything.. it is much harder on the 2 pilots not having the engineer helping out, and pilots are complaining and there have been accidents were pilots have missed faulty readings or errors or just been too busy and missed cues or distracted etc etc..

im just a uni student tho :D so I don't know much.. but I'm studying psyc specifically pilot training/aviation disasters and otago are now looking at (have been for a few years now before my time) cockpit layouts and issues with cockpits/pilot distractions that contribute to accidents. So I am getting quite interested in flying.. spending a lot of hours in the simulator Otago has.. flying is sweet!

5150

9th July 2012, 14:00

hehe.. well thanks to google you can find operating manuals and pre flights checklists for the 747 range of planes..

pre flight/pre engine start.. right thru to taxi and take off.. apparently captain and first officer stays in plane they can check everything via the instruments :D can't trust everything you read online tho.. but also just being around planes so much I'm yet to see a commercial/passenger 747 pilot out on the tarmac himself circling around prior to take off.. they usually rock up with their bags, head straight to the cockpit..

I only fly the damn things, so what would I know. Aye?:facepalm: