New Bucket class idea?

[Sketchy_Racer]

Recently my interest in buckets has been rekindled due to time off racing the 600, however I have completly lost interest in mucking around with my worn out MB100 now.

So I got thinking for alternative motors. I want to stick with a two stroke but the rules pretty much confine you to shagged out old motors from the 80s which are all well past their best and getting parts is a pain in the ass.

So I want to put the idea of a running 80cc MX engines with rulling something along lines of this,


80CC Only (no 85cc engines)
Pre 2000
Stock motors (everything inside remain stock, reeds porting etc)
0.5mm max piston oversize
Exhaust pipe open
Carb size limited to original manufacture size
Ignition limited to original or CDI equivalent (No ignitechs etc)

These motors make a peak of 20hp which is on par with moderate FXR150 and quite a bit less than a worked one!

I'm expecting quite a bit of resistance from people about it but I think it would spark quite a bit of interest because lets face it, MB100s and TF125s are little bit lack luster.

Also the ruling means that it is easy for someone to build a competitive bike, but limits budgets due to the fact that you can't change anything to make more power.

Ok now fire away with the flaming

[richban]

Recently my interest in buckets has been rekindled due to time off racing the 600, however I have completly lost interest in mucking around with my worn out MB100 now.

So I got thinking for alternative motors. I want to stick with a two stroke but the rules pretty much confine you to shagged out old motors from the 80s which are all well past their best and getting parts is a pain in the ass.

So I want to put the idea of a running 80cc MX engines with rulling something along lines of this,


80CC Only (no 85cc engines)
Pre 2000
Stock motors (everything inside remain stock, reeds porting etc)
0.5mm max piston oversize
Exhaust pipe open
Carb size limited to original manufacture size
Ignition limited to original or CDI equivalent (No ignitechs etc)

These motors make a peak of 20hp which is on par with moderate FXR150 and quite a bit less than a worked one!

I'm expecting quite a bit of resistance from people about it but I think it would spark quite a bit of interest because lets face it, MB100s and TF125s are little bit lack luster.

Also the ruling means that it is easy for someone to build a competitive bike, but limits budgets due to the fact that you can't change anything to make more power.

Ok now fire away with the flaming

Yeah little tricky. A stock FXR would get smashed buy one of these. Not a lot of people have the skills to build one so it's snot really an option as an entry level bike. Unlike an FXR. So as an upgrade sure what the fuck. Will be fun watching the hi sides.

One thing I would like to know is how much HP one of these will make with a Wobbly pipe and some attention to the jetting. Maybe running the MX airbox with dirty big oil covered fliter as well.

Then you might have to allow CRF150R stockers.

And then And then. Can of worms young man.

how about you just lease an engine of me.

[Henk]

Why not just open it up and allow competion engines full stop and move the watercooled 2T limit to 125. Actually I'm in the "the rules aren't broken leave them alone" camp and don't really want to see the guys who have gone to a lot of time and effort to build bikes that work under the current rules see their hard work consigned to the also ran basket because all of a sudden to be competive you need a late model RS frame with a 125 2T or 150 4T MX engine in it. If we were to open the rules that far that would be situation in twelve to eighteen months. People bitch that a two grand bucket is crazy money now.

[Sketchy_Racer]

Yeah maybe a air-box restrictor could be installed to peg the HP levels.

I know the MX boys get an easy 30HP out of the 85cc motors.

The thing I like is that you can pick up a an entire bike for less than you can buy a bloody bare FXR motor these days. Not to mention they'll be bastard to ride and wont be to everyones flavor so I can't see them taking over or anything silly like that. Just another variety to keep it interesting.

[Sketchy_Racer]

Why not just open it up and allow competion engines full stop and move the watercooled 2T limit to 125. Actually I'm in the "the rules aren't broken leave them alone" camp and don't really want to see the guys who have gone to a lot of time and effort to build bikes that work under the current rules see their hard work consigned to the also ran basket because all of a sudden to be competive you need a late model RS frame with a 125 2T or 150 4T MX engine in it. If we were to open the rules that far that would be situation in twelve to eighteen months. People bitch that a two grand bucket is crazy money now.

Fair view, much the same view a great deal of people had about the FXR150 when it was introduced and I distinctly recall statements such as "The rules aren't broken leave them alone" and "Guys who have gone to a lot of time and effort to build bikes that work under the current rules see their hard work consigned to the also ran basket"

Funnily enough the FXRs were another great incentive to the bucket class such as the RG50 when it came out (and demolished the MB50)

Times change and things have to change too.

A bone stock FXR150 bucket now is in the range of $1500+ Or a purchased "ready to race" $2000+

In comparison a half competent "tinkerer" Could build a 80cc powered bucket for less than half the $1500 FXR and keeps an interest in two strokes alive for the riders that want to ride and not spend more time on the dyno than on the track...

[richban]

If you could prove that all the engines will make 20 ish with the best pipe and standard MX everything then people might be a little more open to the idea. Build one and come race it. If you smash as all then you get the bash and have to by all the beers.

[Henk]

Rich

I can sort of see your point but at a time when buckets are going from strength to strength numbers wise I don't see that the rules need changing. If things were to change I see no point in limiting it to bikes that are at least 12 years old now.
MX go faster parts are so easy to get it would be damn hard to police as well given the relaxed attitudes most bucket guys have. Rad valve in there who knows and who is going to bother finding out?

[gav]

Keep your eyes open and bargain FXR race bikes turn up often enough, like the $1000 FXR down this way recently. I know of another that is for sale for $1300. (Which is what the $1000 was purchased for as well).
Any pre 2000 80cc MX bike is likely to be well shagged too, so can't see it being that cheap as an entry either.
Also know of several new 2T bikes being built at the moment none of which are being based on old MB or TF engines either.
From what I can see the sport seems pretty strong at the moment, with plenty of interest and some good ideas being bandied about.

[Pumba]

I am sure we have had this conversation before. Pretty sure the answer was no.

[richban]

Rich

I can sort of see your point but at a time when buckets are going from strength to strength numbers wise I don't see that the rules need changing. If things were to change I see no point in limiting it to bikes that are at least 12 years old now.
MX go faster parts are so easy to get it would be damn hard to police as well given the relaxed attitudes most bucket guys have. Rad valve in there who knows and who is going to bother finding out?

Yeah agree. its working now the class is the biggest road racing category in NZ so why change it.

[Sketchy_Racer]

Rich

I can sort of see your point but at a time when buckets are going from strength to strength numbers wise I don't see that the rules need changing. If things were to change I see no point in limiting it to bikes that are at least 12 years old now.
MX go faster parts are so easy to get it would be damn hard to police as well given the relaxed attitudes most bucket guys have. Rad valve in there who knows and who is going to bother finding out?

True with the age thing, make it easy to limit horsepower with a carb restriction then.



Keep your eyes open and bargain FXR race bikes turn up often enough, like the $1000 FXR down this way recently. I know of another that is for sale for $1300. (Which is what the $1000 was purchased for as well).
Any pre 2000 80cc MX bike is likely to be well shagged too, so can't see it being that cheap as an entry either.
Also know of several new 2T bikes being built at the moment none of which are being based on old MB or TF engines either.
From what I can see the sport seems pretty strong at the moment, with plenty of interest and some good ideas being bandied about.

Yes I know bargains come and go, I can also score a bare CR80 motor fully rebuilt ready to run for $200 too, but the bargains aren't what dictate the market. How much will I have to pay for a complete FXR racer right now if I went to buy one. That is current market price.

Either way my agenda for pushing this idea is because I don't want a 4 stroke as I am already building a rather special one of those that wont be ready for quite some time, and I do want a two stroke but I want one that is going to be reasonably competitive compared to the worked FXRs that are playing in the 20+ HP numbers with a good spread of power.

So a CR80 motor market price = $500 for just the motor (with new rod kit, pistin and bearings ready to go in radiator, electrics exhaust etc) or $800 for a whole bike with a fresh engine (from trademe)

Bang that in my frame I'm away racing mixing it with the boys again having fun and my bike is no faster than theirs and probably harder to ride which I dont mind. Remember most of the racing in welly is under the kart club not MNZ so the rules are "Self policed" I would not be silly enough to turn up to BOB etc with this motor.



I am sure we have had this conversation before. Pretty sure the answer was no.

Yeah it all popped up when choppa was looking into chucking an 80 into his bucket frame, but the so called bucket "Old schools" turned up and said no. Interesting, I realised today that I have been racing buckets for nearly 10 years now. How time goes by!


Yeah agree. its working now the class is the biggest road racing category in NZ so why change it.

I'm still going to build it and I have no problem restricting it so that it is same speed as say hamish's bike in a straight line which is what I would call a moderately powered FXR150 (around 20ish HP I would guess??)

[crazy man]

Yeah maybe a air-box restrictor could be installed to peg the HP levels.

I know the MX boys get an easy 30HP out of the 85cc motors.

The thing I like is that you can pick up a an entire bike for less than you can buy a bloody bare FXR motor these days. Not to mention they'll be bastard to ride and wont be to everyones flavor so I can't see them taking over or anything silly like that. Just another variety to keep it interesting.no way you would get 30hp out of a mx 85 when l dynoed shane kings 250 at 32 hp diffient type of power needed for mx but l dont mind the idea of mx80s running in buckets

[Buckets4Me]

Recently my interest in buckets has been rekindled due to time off racing the 600, however I have completly lost interest in mucking around with my worn out MB100 now.

So I got thinking for alternative motors. I want to stick with a two stroke but the rules pretty much confine you to shagged out old motors from the 80s which are all well past their best and getting parts is a pain in the ass.

So I want to put the idea of a running 80cc MX engines with rulling something along lines of this,


80CC Only (no 85cc engines)
Pre 2000
Stock motors (everything inside remain stock, reeds porting etc)
0.5mm max piston oversize
Exhaust pipe open
Carb size limited to original manufacture size
Ignition limited to original or CDI equivalent (No ignitechs etc)

These motors make a peak of 20hp which is on par with moderate FXR150 and quite a bit less than a worked one!

I'm expecting quite a bit of resistance from people about it but I think it would spark quite a bit of interest because lets face it, MB100s and TF125s are little bit lack luster.

Also the ruling means that it is easy for someone to build a competitive bike, but limits budgets due to the fact that you can't change anything to make more power.

Ok now fire away with the flaming


I read this as

I cant be assed buying a piston and rod kit for my motor
instead I want to buy a shaged out old mx engine (in the hope that some little kid hasent run it around a paddock at full tit in first gear)

then i expect it to last and run reliably (because my comuter bike dosn't)
bla bla bla

just build a decent 125 aircooled engine (I have a gp125)
spend a bit of money on a new crank and piston (probably less than rebuilding an mx engine)

and get out there racing

the rules are fine and dont need fixing (we have more people racing than any other class)

and if you arn't willing to spend $2000 on a decent bike then dont complain about it braking down (how much is an rm80 or kx80 ?)

[Buckets4Me]

no way you would get 30hp out of a mx 85 when l dynoed shane kings 250 at 32 hp diffient type of power needed for mx but l dont mind the idea of mx80s running in buckets

go buy a derbie 80 then

[crazy man]

go buy a derbie 80 thenwhy?.............

[ajturbo]

clutching at straws for a bike to try and beat me eh???...:lol:

[Kickaha]

clutching at straws for a bike to try and beat me eh???...:lol:

He could beat you on a bicycle, so could most of us

[Buckets4Me]

why?.............

because they are legal and mx engines arn't

would have thought that was the sencible thing to do ?

then again this is buckets

[Sketchy_Racer]

I read this as

I cant be assed buying a piston and rod kit for my motor
instead I want to buy a shaged out old mx engine (in the hope that some little kid hasent run it around a paddock at full tit in first gear)

then i expect it to last and run reliably (because my comuter bike dosn't)
bla bla bla

just build a decent 125 aircooled engine (I have a gp125)
spend a bit of money on a new crank and piston (probably less than rebuilding an mx engine)

and get out there racing

the rules are fine and dont need fixing (we have more people racing than any other class)

and if you arn't willing to spend $2000 on a decent bike then dont complain about it braking down (how much is an rm80 or kx80 ?)

Never assume when you don't know buddy.

My MB100 motor is in much more need than a rod and a piston, If thats all it needed, it would have it. It's kind of like a lot of those old 80's two strokes.. It's fucked.

I already have a CR motor in great condition that I got for cheap. And I am focusing spending my time and money on my other other project but in the mean time I would like to keep racing buckets, So i'm going to bang the CR motor in.

Again, I have no interest in a old crapped out aircooled 125 that i have to fuck around with, I want to put a motor in my frame and race with the boys and if my bike isn't good enough to battle for a win on I have no interest in racing as it just pisses me off.

Either i'll do this, or i'll chuck a shit load of money at something that's "legal" and has twice the power of the CR and be that dickhead with the out of hand expensive bucket with a 125GP chassis with lightweight racing wheels, brand new tyres ohlins front and rear, electronic ignitions etc ... hmm yep the spirit of buckets.

Sorry for the cynical comment but it seems people sometime lose perspective of things.

[crazy man]

because they are legal and mx engines arn't

would have thought that was the sencible thing to do ?

then again this is bucketsl dont want to see it change at all people have put alot of work and money into there engines but there is not much diffients from a derby80 to a mx80 and there is a 1000 mx engine's to 1 derby engine out there maybe it may build more numbers l dont know

[Sketchy_Racer]

no way you would get 30hp out of a mx 85 when l dynoed shane kings 250 at 32 hp diffient type of power needed for mx but l dont mind the idea of mx80s running in buckets

Interesting, That number is from one of the "MX racers dads" so obviously talking out his ass. It will be interesting to see how the 80 compares to the other bikes once its running

[Buckets4Me]

Either i'll do this, or i'll chuck a shit load of money at something that's "legal" and has twice the power of the CR and be that dickhead with the out of hand expensive bucket with a 125GP chassis with lightweight racing wheels, brand new tyres ohlins front and rear, electronic ignitions etc ... hmm yep the spirit of buckets.

Sorry for the cynical comment but it seems people sometime lose perspective of things.

you'r not talking about me are you ?

havent spent a grat deal of money on my bike
and have raced it for 6+ years or so (makes it cheaper than the boat I have at home)

I cant ride so dont win very often but I do FINISH just about every race i start :banana:

nothings free and buckets is about as cheap as you get in a race class

[Drew]

I read this as

I cant be assed buying a piston and rod kit for my motor
instead I want to buy a shaged out old mx engine (in the hope that some little kid hasent run it around a paddock at full tit in first gear)

then i expect it to last and run reliably (because my comuter bike dosn't)
bla bla bla

just build a decent 125 aircooled engine (I have a gp125)
spend a bit of money on a new crank and piston (probably less than rebuilding an mx engine)

and get out there racing

the rules are fine and dont need fixing (we have more people racing than any other class)

and if you arn't willing to spend $2000 on a decent bike then dont complain about it braking down (how much is an rm80 or kx80 ?)

Did you read the post where he broke the cost of a motor down?

If it were legal everywhere, it is exactly the route I would have taken, no question.

[Buckets4Me]

Interesting, That number is from one of the "MX racers dads" so obviously talking out his ass. It will be interesting to see how the 80 compares to the other bikes once its running

you will need to ride the wheels off it

[gav]

Here Glen $1500 ONO
http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/sports/auction-489422170.htm
Lil M, Miriam has her FXR150 for sale, she wants around $1300 ono ...

The way I see it, is only those skilled enough to build a fast legal bucket have the skills to build a fast 80cc MX based bucket.

[Kickaha]

hmm yep the spirit of buckets.

Can you show me what rule covers that? :whistle:

[richban]

Yes the rules are working. But that does not mean new rules will not work. Imagine if we re wrote the rules focusing on Capacity only to get a possible 30hp. Get the right people to lay out the limits based on Motogp tech and go for it. 85 / 90 2s 155 4 valve's 210 2 valve's. Oh so simple. Yes you can buy fruity shit off the shelf. It don't make it the best option. To get to that max power the same people interested in getting the most will be doing the same thing they are now. I think that would make the class massive and a real stepping stone for young riders. The builders would still be happy. maybe more so. I would axe the GP chassis. Anyway Carry on.

[Drew]

nothings free and buckets is about as cheap as you get in a race classNot if you wanna run at the front it isn't. Post classics is cheaper.

[Buckets4Me]

Did you read the post where he broke the cost of a motor down?

If it were legal everywhere, it is exactly the route I would have taken, no question.

na I didn't

quick rundown again as I'm to lazy to look

my last rebuild was a piston and NEW barrel (didn't cost me anything as I stole them from E.S.E spares)

[crazy man]

Interesting, That number is from one of the "MX racers dads" so obviously talking out his ass. It will be interesting to see how the 80 compares to the other bikes once its runningmy mates father in 1990 said there kx125 put out 45 hp stock lol man talk l say but we all know its mosty up to the rider on how fast you are

[Buckets4Me]

Not if you wanna run at the front it isn't. Post classics is cheaper.

so you can build and race a bike for under $2k and win ????

then again the entry fees will cripple you

[Kickaha]

Not if you wanna run at the front it isn't. Post classics is cheaper.

Surely even you can't be that stupid?

[Buckets4Me]

Surely even you can't be that stupid?

this is KB you can say anything

MY TZ350a cost more than that for a frount wheel (and it's only got drum brakes)

[Sketchy_Racer]

you'r not talking about me are you ?

havent spent a grat deal of money on my bike
and have raced it for 6+ years or so (makes it cheaper than the boat I have at home)

I cant ride so dont win very often but I do FINISH just about every race i start :banana:

nothings free and buckets is about as cheap as you get in a race class

No not talking about you at all, just referencing buckets in general. If i wanted to I could do that and the idea of it does seem like fun, but to me it's a little bit out my idea of what buckets should be. My $200 RGV chassis handles just great for me so I will keep it.

[Sketchy_Racer]

Just make it louder so when you try stick it up the inside I can slam the door.

Nah, you'll have to improve your sixth sense mate :lol:

[Drew]

Surely even you can't be that stupid?I can get a competitive FZR1000 for under two grand.


this is KB you can say anything

MY TZ350a cost more than that for a frount wheel (and it's only got drum brakes)Yeah, it fuckin would be, but it's a different class to what I was refering to. I mean pre '89, and they are cheap as fuckin chips.

Yeah the running cost is higher, but can none of you see what it is Glen is trying to impress apon you? Are you all so fuckin stuck in your ways that you wont even consider what he is proposing could lower the cost, and level the playing field a bit?

Fuck sakes, come up with some rules to keep them from getting away if you're that bloody scared of them.

[richban]

Nah, you'll have to improve your sixth sense mate :lol:

Wing mirror bitch.

[Kickaha]

I can get a competitive FZR1000 for under two grand..

Real post classic is Pre82 not those late model shitters

It may be competitive now although I would doubt it and in another year or two it certainly wont be without major money spent on it

[Drew]

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/dirt-bikes/auction-490329125.htm

There ya go. Road rims and gear it up a touch, fuckin racing baby!

[Drew]

Real post classic is Pre82 not those late model shitters

It may be competitive now although I would doubt it and in another year or two it certainly wont be without major money spent on it

So you're completely stuck in your ways when it comes to any class you are interested in.

[Bert]

Yes the rules are working. But that does not mean new rules will not work. Imagine if we re wrote the rules focusing on Capacity only to get a possible 30hp. Get the right people to lay out the limits based on Motogp tech and go for it. 85 / 90 2s 155 4 valve's 210 2 valve's. Oh so simple. Yes you can buy fruity shit off the shelf. It don't make it the best option. To get to that max power the same people interested in getting the most will be doing the same thing they are now. I think that would make the class massive and a real stepping stone for young riders. The builders would still be happy. maybe more so. I would axe the GP chassis. Anyway Carry on.

Nice bit of thinking Rich.

I've personally always liked the rules introduced into NSW bucket racing (I've posted my thoughts on this matter since 2005) and been shot down every time by more senior bucketers.
the question is why did the introduction of FXRs change the path that F4 was heading (down the crapper); because they where reliable and looked cool (well for a small bike).
a lot of people don't have the skills or equipment (and time) these days to get old sh!tter two strokes going well. how many are there really out there>>??
And while some have managed to get big Hp out of them; how long can they really handle it... 30 year old crap casting is just a recipe for failure.

Maybe its just a new class ??? MX-dads would love it.
:chase::corn:

Axing Gp chassis... GPR frame anyone???


http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/dirt-bikes/auction-490329125.htm
There ya go. Road rims and gear it up a touch, fuckin racing baby!

Well Drew; I don't often agree with your approach (but I do here!!); that would be a load cheaper than building a water cooled 100........

[Kickaha]

So you're completely stuck in your ways when it comes to any class you are interested in.

Not at all, in a couple of years your "cheap" 2K pre89 bike will be a back marker as that class will go the same way as Pre82 has

Your 80cc bike you just posted up by the time you put the "road rims" on will have cost more than the ready to race FXR as will most of those that are currently on TM

I think the rules Glen suggested are quite sensible but I just don't believe they're needed

[Sketchy_Racer]

I think the rules Glen suggested are quite sensible but I just don't believe they're needed

I agree, it is not like the class is falling apart, and lets be fair I am only pushing my own agenda here as I have a motor I want to run it because I think it will be fun to ride with decent power in good chassis and it's going to take me about a day to get it sorted and race ready. I don't care if the MNZ rules get changed or not. The welly boys wont care as long as its not the fastest bike there.

I do think though that it is certainly another option for the two stroke fans out there (like me) but either dont want to build one or are pre-occupied with other projects.

[kel]

So I want to put the idea of a running 80cc MX engines


Why bother? The rules allow for Aprilia 50's, install a 80/90cc bolt up kit on to one of these and hay presto 24hp and completely within the rules, maybe not in the spirit of bucket racing but certainly within the rules!

[Drew]

Not at all, in a couple of years your "cheap" 2K pre89 bike will be a back marker as that class will go the same way as Pre82 has

Your 80cc bike you just posted up by the time you put the "road rims" on will have cost more than the ready to race FXR as will most of those that are currently on TM

I think the rules Glen suggested are quite sensible but I just don't believe they're needed

Road rims are cheap as chips. Perhaps not to run 125gp slicks, but there is good rubber available for some other size rims, and on a motard side grip aint quite as important.

[gav]

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/dirt-bikes/auction-490329125.htm

There ya go. Road rims and gear it up a touch, fuckin racing baby!

It's outside the era that Glen posted, pre 2000 ... :brick:

Minilites could be a good class, make it two stroke only and replace F5, the RG50's could run in this class and any 4 stroke F5's out there .... oh well, something has to go I guess .... :2thumbsup

[Bert]

Why bother? The rules allow for Aprilia 50's, install a 80/90cc bolt up kit on to one of these and hay presto 24hp and completely within the rules, maybe not in the spirit of bucket racing but certainly within the rules!

and they are really common.....not...

[Drew]

It's outside the era that Glen posted, pre 2000 ... :brick:

Minilites could be a good class, make it two stroke only and replace F5, the RG50's could run in this class and any 4 stroke F5's out there .... oh well, something has to go I guess .... :2thumbsup

2001 YZ is unchanged from the 2000:ar15:

Why does anything need to go. Bikes powered with these motors are not gonna be so much better than what's out there now, that they are dangerous to put on the track at the same time. They are just available.

[Sketchy_Racer]

Why bother? The rules allow for Aprilia 50's, install a 80/90cc bolt up kit on to one of these and hay presto 24hp and completely within the rules, maybe not in the spirit of bucket racing but certainly within the rules!

Exactly my point, the ability to achieve the equivalent of 80cc MX mother already exists, you just have to chuck a whole lot of money at it, or I can use my CR80 motor that cost me less than a fucken piston for the aprillia. Fuck the rules, it's called discretion for a typical club day (NZGPs and championships run under MNZ are little different)

I remember about 8 years ago I turned up to buckets with a FXR150 and got the shit ripped out of me because my bike cost me $500 and was far to flash for bucket, amazing how much buckets have changed over the time which it needs to though.

[Drew]

Why bother? The rules allow for Aprilia 50's, install a 80/90cc bolt up kit on to one of these and hay presto 24hp and completely within the rules, maybe not in the spirit of bucket racing but certainly within the rules!

24 ponies at horrendous cost...if you can find it all.

[Bert]

....

I remember about 8 years ago I turned up to buckets with a FXR150 and got the shit ripped out of me because my bike cost me $500 and was far to flash for bucket, amazing how much buckets have changed over the time which it needs to though.

Silly; $500 bucks 8 years ago was a steal... I paid more than that 18 years ago for my second bike....

[gav]

Is that $500 FXR the one you sold to Buddha for $1000? :clap: Nice work, young man!! :cool:
And yeah I seem to remember Buddha getting shit too for paying THAT much for a bucket too!

[gav]

I can't see running a MX 80 as being a cheap option though ....

[richban]

Exactly my point, the ability to achieve the equivalent of 80cc MX mother already exists, you just have to chuck a whole lot of money at it, or I can use my CR80 motor that cost me less than a fucken piston for the aprillia. Fuck the rules, it's called discretion for a typical club day (NZGPs and championships run under MNZ are little different)

I remember about 8 years ago I turned up to buckets with a FXR150 and got the shit ripped out of me because my bike cost me $500 and was far to flash for bucket, amazing how much buckets have changed over the time which it needs to though.

You know that if you build it come racing we will give you shit for 5 minutes then have a blast out on track. So much bullshit on this site. I look forward to rubbing elbows again. Also will be great to have you back sharing knowledge. Would be cool if you could help mentor some of the new guys and girls.

[Bert]

You know that if you build it come racing we will give you shit for 5 minutes then have a blast out on track. So much bullshit on this site. I look forward to rubbing elbows again. Also will be great to have you back sharing knowledge. Would be cool if you could help mentor some of the new guys and girls.

Second that.;)

[Kickaha]

Fuck the rules, it's called discretion for a typical club day (NZGPs and championships run under MNZ are little different)
Perhaps with the permission of the Welly bucket guys you could run the bike at an event and see how it compares, depending on how it goes maybe even put a remit forward to get the rules changed to allow them

I remember about 8 years ago I turned up to buckets with a FXR150 and got the shit ripped out of me because my bike cost me $500 and was far to flash for bucket, amazing how much buckets have changed over the time which it needs to though.
I paid $500 for my first GN about 12 years ago but that was going rate for a quick one then

Is that $500 FXR the one you sold to Buddha for $1000? :clap: Nice work, young man!! :cool:
And yeah I seem to remember Buddha getting shit too for paying THAT much for a bucket too!
:lol: The season before I paid $600 for the FXR Buddha didn't want and hammered him all season long on it

[kel]

24 ponies at horrendous cost...if you can find it all.

Bullshit. A full kit will cost you 300 euros, the bikes are dirt cheap and handle well enough in stock setup and there are spares for Africa. Use the net old fella, its your new best friend.
Frits has just left a post on the "intent of rules" on the ESE thread which I fully agree with. The rules have a huge loop hole which allow shit hot euro hot up kits which cost bugger all to be used in Buckets, who needs to change the rules to use dirty old crossers? I have plenty of good shit sitting in the shed to but I dont go around asking people to change the rules so I can use them in a class they're not designed for.
Phew thats so antagonistic - I feel awesome, this keyboard sparing is fantastic!!!

[Shorty_925]

or I can use my CRM80 motor that cost me less than a ....

Fixed it, all legal and your good to go, no one will be the wiser.

[Sketchy_Racer]

Fixed it, all legal and your good to go, no one will be the wiser.

Haha mint, Im pretty sure it is a crm anyway, someone written on the side of it CRM so well just call that official ;)

[Buddha#81]

:eek5:
I remember about 8 years ago I turned up to buckets with a FXR150 and got the shit ripped out of me because my bike cost me $500 and was far to flash for bucket, amazing how much buckets have changed over the time which it needs to though.

Fook you little shit, you ripped me off! 100% markup! Good bike though ;)

[Sketchy_Racer]

:eek5:

Fook you little shit, you ripped me off! 100% markup! Good bike though ;)

Yeah that bike was definitely a good one. How many race KMs did you put on it??

That mark up can be a real bitch though eh ;)

[koba]

I don't care if the MNZ rules get changed or not. The welly boys wont care as long as its not the fastest bike there.



...or I can use my CR80 motor that cost me less than a fucken piston for the aprillia. Fuck the rules, it's called discretion for a typical club day...


Shit Glen, I can't believe you are being so arrogant.

I want to construct fully cohesive rebuttal but I can't get past "what a dick" in my head at the moment.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you are an arsehole, I'm just saying this approach makes you appear to be one.

EDIT: I need to clarify, all good to suggest a rule change and begin some debate but this "Fuck the rules" approach is disgusting.

[Buckets4Me]

You know that if you build it come racing we will give you shit for 5 minutes then have a blast out on track. So much bullshit on this site. I look forward to rubbing elbows again. Also will be great to have you back sharing knowledge. Would be cool if you could help mentor some of the new guys and girls.

you know thats right

I consider Richban's bike ilegal because he uses a garden spade on it :nono:

[Buckets4Me]

Fuck sakes, come up with some rules to keep them from getting away if you're that bloody scared of them.

we have rules and they dont let the little mxers get away with anything so why change them for the odd few that cant wont or are to cheap to do it properly ?????

[Drew]

Shit Glen, I can't believe you are being so arrogant.

I want to construct fully cohesive rebuttal but I can't get past "what a dick" in my head at the moment.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you are an arsehole, I'm just saying this approach makes you appear to be one.

EDIT: I need to clarify, all good to suggest a rule change and begin some debate but this "Fuck the rules" approach is disgusting.Go have a wee cry about it Malclom, this is Kiwibiker. The whole point is to do things the wrong way.


we have rules and they dont let the little mxers get away with anything so why change them for the odd few that cant wont or are to cheap to do it properly ?????Properly? Here Malcolm, you gonna call this guy for being arrogant? Didn't think so.

Too cheap? I don't have a couple grand, but I'm a pretty handy rider who competes, (you know what that word means aye, to try and WIN). I'd like to be able to build a reliable bike that'll nearly keep up on the straights for less than what my RF cost me.

Next cunt that says an FXR can be got for a grand, ask Rich how much his motor would cost to get built at retail prices, and then try and have a drag race with him on yer stocker.

[hmurphy]

Next cunt that says an FXR can be got for a grand, ask Rich how much his motor would cost to get built at retail prices, and then try and have a drag race with him on yer stocker.

I sold my spare FXR for 800 with slicks and nylon. It was a good deal for someone (even though it was kinda ratty) but still, it's an FXR. You also don't need to spend stupid amounts of money on an engine to be competitive. If I was to go to a big track (i.e. Taupo) I'd be way down on top speed, but at Kaitoke (and probably most kart tracks) the most important thing is punch out of corners IMO. My bike would get murdered by Richard's and Andrews in a drag race and this has something to do with why I don't want to race at big tracks with my bucket.

Whoever bought my spare FXR could have had an A grade winning bike for less than 2K EASY (with plenty of your own time put in). That's damn cheap for a race winning bike considering how fast and competitive the racing is getting. You also get a hell of a lot of track time and maintenance costs are FA. If anyone expects to build an A grade race winning bike for less than 1K either has crazy good hook ups or doesn't understand how much development has gone into some guys bikes.

I haven't read this whole thread because it's too damn long, but I just saw the first few and last few comments. I think it would be cool to see an 80 MX engine at Kaitoke but I do understand that rules are there for a reason. Glen if you show up with the engine you're probably gonna be all good to race with it (at least in the short run) but I'm sure at bigger bucket meetings like Easter buckets or an NI round (or if the bike is clearly a shitload better than others) there might be a few people that throw the rule book at you which I'm sure you would expect anyway. Either way I'd be keen to have a go on it haha. If it's not too hard/time consuming to put the engine in your frame I think it could be a cool idea for kart track racing and I think it's worth a test at Kaitoke, at LEAST on a fun day (no points) so noone really cares if you clean up or get cleaned up. Or it could be a nightmare for you and others.

[Drew]

I sold my spare FXR for 800 with slicks and nylon. It was a good deal for someone (even though it was kinda ratty) but still, it's an FXR. You also don't need to spend stupid amounts of money on an engine to be competitive. If I was to go to a big track (i.e. Taupo) I'd be way down on top speed, but at Kaitoke (and probably most kart tracks) the most important thing is punch out of corners IMO. My bike would get murdered by Richard's and Andrews in a drag race and this has something to do with why I don't want to race at big tracks with my bucket.

Whoever bought my spare FXR could have had an A grade winning bike for less than 2K EASY (with plenty of your own time put in). That's damn cheap for a race winning bike considering how fast and competitive the racing is getting. You also get a hell of a lot of track time and maintenance costs are FA. If anyone expects to build an A grade race winning bike for less than 1K either has crazy good hook ups or doesn't understand how much development has gone into some guys bikes.

I haven't read this whole thread because it's too damn long, but I just saw the first few and last few comments. I think it would be cool to see an 80 MX engine at Kaitoke but I do understand that rules are there for a reason. Glen if you show up with the engine you're probably gonna be all good to race with it (at least in the short run) but I'm sure at bigger bucket meetings like Easter buckets or an NI round (or if the bike is clearly a shitload better than others) there might be a few people that throw the rule book at you which I'm sure you would expect anyway. Either way I'd be keen to have a go on it haha. If it's not too hard/time consuming to put the engine in your frame I think it could be a cool idea for kart track racing and I think it's worth a test at Kaitoke, at LEAST on a fun day (no points) so noone really cares if you clean up or get cleaned up. Or it could be a nightmare for you and others.

I was kinda meaning about running on all tracks. From the video of last year BOB, it looks like Richard's bike is getting up well over 100-120 k's. He'd have to be because you can take 'pothole' at that sorta pace fairly easily and he's backing off for it. (OK, he might just be a pansey).

I'm gonna stick with the motor I've got, because it was free. I'm never gonna be able to keep up with the quick bikes, and I don't have quite as big a chip on my shoulder about it as I make out.

One more thing quickly. You know that the motor Glen wants to run, still wont come close to a wanked 150 diesel on a long straight aye? But on a kart track, it'll be the best two stroke out there.

[hmurphy]

One more thing quickly. You know that the motor Glen wants to run, still wont come close to a wanked 150 diesel on a long straight aye? But on a kart track, it'll be the best two stroke out there.

It might be really difficult to ride though. Only testing will tell. Even though it's bucket racing, you still can't whack the throttle to full pin at max lean angle and expect it to not slide/crash. I've ridden an 80 before (briefly) and as cool as they are, it was kinda all or nothing when touching the throttle. I think I read a comment about Rich mentioning high sides..... I'd agree with that! Even my lethargic FXR slides and tries to high side me. I guess a different chassis and gearing might make a difference. Either way.... if you can be bothered, put it in your chassis and test it Glen.

[Drew]

It might be really difficult to ride though. Only testing will tell. Even though it's bucket racing, you still can't whack the throttle to full pin at max lean angle and expect it to not slide/crash. I've ridden an 80 before (briefly) and as cool as they are, it was kinda all or nothing when touching the throttle. I think I read a comment about Rich mentioning high sides..... I'd agree with that! Even my lethargic FXR slides and tries to high side me. I guess a different chassis and gearing might make a difference. Either way.... if you can be bothered, put it in your chassis and test it Glen.

They run an 1/8 turn throttle on MX bikes, because they are ridden on or off the gas. A smaller throttle wheel will make it far more linear.

[Sketchy_Racer]

Shit Glen, I can't believe you are being so arrogant.

I want to construct fully cohesive rebuttal but I can't get past "what a dick" in my head at the moment.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you are an arsehole, I'm just saying this approach makes you appear to be one.

EDIT: I need to clarify, all good to suggest a rule change and begin some debate but this "Fuck the rules" approach is disgusting.

Dude it's Kiwibiker, put the big words away and get over it.

Apart from mainly trying to troll a few people there is a small amount of genuine interest in changing the rules, but I know a lot of people in buckets are so precious about the "Current Rules" and seem so afraid of change that I didn't really bother with a "formal" approach.

Sorry mate, but you are prime example of said person that seems oh so precious about your little bucket rule book, and lets face it they are a joke. Poorly written and so out of date now. The worst part is that MNZ have no interest and want to call us self policing. Hey you can always protest me.... :lol:

My main question of interest is apart from the reply "leave the rules alone" which is a fantastic way to get shit stuck in the past, what possibility does this concept have of hurting buckets? None, I can tell you though that there would be another half a dozen top level riders that would be racing buckets now that aren't because they don't want to muck around with engines they just want something close enough and will make the rest up with rider skill.

[Sketchy_Racer]

It might be really difficult to ride though. Only testing will tell. Even though it's bucket racing, you still can't whack the throttle to full pin at max lean angle and expect it to not slide/crash. I've ridden an 80 before (briefly) and as cool as they are, it was kinda all or nothing when touching the throttle. I think I read a comment about Rich mentioning high sides..... I'd agree with that! Even my lethargic FXR slides and tries to high side me. I guess a different chassis and gearing might make a difference. Either way.... if you can be bothered, put it in your chassis and test it Glen.

You would be surprised how much adding the grip of tarmac will make the 80s feel gutless and flat. Even a TF125 feels pretty grunty on the dirt.

Yeah when I start putting the motor together, I'll make build thread and let the haters hate.

[cotswold]

I reckon instead of messing with bucket rules go talk to MNZ and ask for an 80 - 100 cc all in class no engine rules, would be fantastic class for the kids coming through. Or..........

Here's a class from uk that would fit almost any budget

Darley 2011 Championship Classes 2011

1a. Formula 125 for up to 125cc Production based machines, 250cc Single Cylinder four stroke RESTRICTED machines and 80cc racing machines.

Room for your RS125 Aprilia, your ugly Diesels and you get to build your mx80 racer, might even get decent grid sizes? I would be tempted to venture long track with an 80cc racer.

The bonus being buckets get left alone

[Drew]

Dude it's Kiwibiker, put the big words away and get over it.

Apart from mainly trying to troll a few people there is a small amount of genuine interest in changing the rules, but I know a lot of people in buckets are so precious about the "Current Rules" and seem so afraid of change that I didn't really bother with a "formal" approach.

Sorry mate, but you are prime example of said person that seems oh so precious about your little bucket rule book, and lets face it they are a joke. Poorly written and so out of date now. The worst part is that MNZ have no interest and want to call us self policing. Hey you can always protest me.... :lol:

My main question of interest is apart from the reply "leave the rules alone" which is a fantastic way to get shit stuck in the past, what possibility does this concept have of hurting buckets? None, I can tell you though that there would be another half a dozen top level riders that would be racing buckets now that aren't because they don't want to muck around with engines they just want something close enough and will make the rest up with rider skill.


I've got an RGV, how cheap can you get a motor? I'll build one too.

[Kickaha]

Sorry mate, but you are prime example of said person that seems oh so precious about your little bucket rule book, and lets face it they are a joke. Poorly written and so out of date now.

I dont think they are poorly written, it's probably the least amount or rules for any class and simple and that's all that is needed

I can tell you though that there would be another half a dozen top level riders that would be racing buckets now that aren't because they don't want to muck around with engines they just want something close enough and will make the rest up with rider skill.
FXR is perfect for that :bleh:

[hmurphy]

I wouldn't go building one til Glen tests his. Might be a dud, might piss people off. If there is a dramatic change in rules, someone poor like me (a student) will have to wait another year before I can afford to have a race winning kit. I also don't see a huge problem with the current rules so no need to 'fix' them. Enhancing them with a rule about 80 MX engines could be interesting which is why my vote is that Glen tests one for now and reports back, along with the others racing with him.

If an 80 is an alternative to an FXR to be an A grade race winning bike and NOT a replacement then I'll be happy that I can still race my FXR. It might even create interesting racing where each type of engine excels in areas where the other does poorly. Worth a test, but I don't think it's a good idea for everyone to go out and build one only to find that it's not going to work in more ways than one.

[richban]

Woohoo. My CFR150R motor is on its way. You will need a measuring stick on the 4 stroke side right. Promise it will be sandrad. Messing wit yall.

[Sketchy_Racer]

Woohoo. My CFR150R motor is on its way. You will need a measuring stick on the 4 stroke side right. Promise it will be sandrad.

Why would you bother with a CRF150? Your fxr motor will be better anyway. Going to take a step backwards to let us keep up?? :lol:

I'm going to build the bike, run it, and if people bitch like fuck, i'll buy a Aprillia 50 motor and put an 80cc kit on just to prove a point.

It'll be the same but different :)

Anyway the trolling's been fun people, time to build an illegal bike ;)

[Buckets4Me]

[QUOTE=Drew;1130356997
Next cunt that says an FXR can be got for a grand, ask Rich how much his motor would cost to get built at retail prices, and then try and have a drag race with him on yer stocker.[/QUOTE]

I can beat him in a strait line it's just that I brake for the corners about a lap before he dose

and you dont need to go stupid with a build either
but you can coppie what Rich has done and get most of the secrets from him

[Buckets4Me]

I like the idear of super buckets :banana: not a change of rules but letting people put hotter engines in or start using the mx engines in a third class of racing

so F5
F4

and supper buckets rg150's
mx85s
no carb rules
and watercooling

just an idear it could be tacket onto the mini motard guys :lol: ( that class never got going either )

[jasonu]

Shit Glen, I can't believe you are being so arrogant.

I want to construct fully cohesive rebuttal but I can't get past "what a dick" in my head at the moment.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you are an arsehole, I'm just saying this approach makes you appear to be one.

EDIT: I need to clarify, all good to suggest a rule change and begin some debate but this "Fuck the rules" approach is disgusting.

Best post so far

[Pumba]

Actually just thinking, if the 80's are so great then the arse end should fall out of the FXR market. making a $500 FXR the norm:Pokey:

[TZ350]

buckets is about as cheap as you get in a race class

Agree


Not if you wanna run at the front it isn't. Post classics is cheaper.

That must be a joke ....

Not sure which post classic build you are refering to.... But front running, back or middle Post Classics are much more expensive than Buckets.

When I ran a Post Classic TZ350 a full engine rebuild, crank kit, pistons, chrome, clutch and doing the work myself each year was about $3,500, new tyres $600-800 and entry fees $150-200 a meeting.

Buckets at Mt Welly, engine bits for a full 2-stroke rebuild $600, tyres $200 (second hand RS125 slicks), entry fee $35.

266406

And I expect a front running Postie takes a lot of work and costs more to get on the track too ......

[Sketchy_Racer]

I like the idear of super buckets :banana: not a change of rules but letting people put hotter engines in or start using the mx engines in a third class of racing

so F5
F4

and supper buckets rg150's
mx85s
no carb rules
and watercooling

just an idear it could be tacket onto the mini motard guys :lol: ( that class never got going either )

Best idea yet!

I like richards rules,

Superbucket class

100cc two stroke unlimited

150 4valve four stroke unlimited

200 2valve four stroke unlimited

Would be awesome!



And to the people taking the troll thread seriously, get a grip!

[Yow Ling]

Best idea yet!

I like richards rules,

Superbucket class

100cc two stroke unlimited

150 4valve four stroke unlimited

200 2valve four stroke unlimited

Would be awesome!



And to the people taking the troll thread seriously, get a grip!

Come to the BOB we got just the class, up to 150cc open 2t, up to 250cc diesels singles or twins only A and B grades , this is a new CAMS class runs with rg150s buckets and ninjalights

[NOID]

80cc would be great, would get me on a two smoke again.

[Sketchy_Racer]

Come to the BOB we got just the class, up to 150cc open 2t, up to 250cc diesels singles or twins only A and B grades , this is a new CAMS class runs with rg150s buckets and ninjalights

Really? That's cool.

I was looking at coming to BOB but my "bucket" motor probably wont be ready then.

[TZ350]

Come to the BOB we got just the class, up to 150cc open 2t, up to 250cc diesels singles or twins only A and B grades , this is a new CAMS class runs with rg150s buckets and ninjalights

And the BOB is open to what? ......

Is it still the battle of the buckets as defined by the F4 rules or the battle of anything goes??? what will be running in qualifying for the BOB and on the track during the race?

[jasonu]

And the BOB is open to what? ......

Is it still the battle of the buckets as defined by the F4 rules or the battle of anything goes??? what will be running in qualifying for the BOB and on the track during the race?

If I am reading it the same as you appear to be and I hope I am wrong then buckets is getting the short end of the stick (again). CAMS people please tell me and TZ we are wrong.

[richban]

And the BOB is open to what? ......

Is it still the battle of the buckets as defined by the F4 rules or the battle of anything goes??? what will be running in qualifying for the BOB and on the track during the race?

Not a big deal if you are running against Street stocks and Ninjas. Makes the hairpin a blast. I will not come down to race the BOB if its not a bucket race. If you are saying these 150s and 250s are open does that mean they are running slicks? Or is it Street stocks and Ninjas in there class spec?

[Pumba]

BOB is run under F4/F rules. CAMS is running another class at the same weekend with the rules as YL posted.

Thought it was pretty clear myself (but I was previously aware of the other class)

[Yow Ling]

Cams used to be a club for old classics, and still is. They need members and riders, they usually get more members at the AGM than any race meet.
By creating a new class they expect to increase numbers, the new class draws on a number of classes.
The BOB is a bucket race, only buckets are eligible.
If you bring a bucket to BOB you can run in Buckets and the 150 250 class. The 150 250 guys seem to have something to prove so the racing is great.

[jasonu]

Cams used to be a club for old classics, and still is. They need members and riders, they usually get more members at the AGM than any race meet.
By creating a new class they expect to increase numbers, the new class draws on a number of classes.
The BOB is a bucket race, only buckets are eligible.
If you bring a bucket to BOB you can run in Buckets and the 150 250 class. The 150 250 guys seem to have something to prove so the racing is great.

Then it sounds like a winner for the Bucket people.

[TZ350]

Not if you wanna run at the front it isn't. Post classics is cheaper.

Hi Drew, I know you were just taking the piss ... but I just can't pass up the chance to promote Buckets as an affordable race class.

266418

Vince Sharp in action on his big Posti, lots of $$$$$$ and talented engineering work.

266420

A front running Posti Senior ... even more $$$$$$$$

266416

I think even in Posti juniors the bikes will cost way more to prepare and run than a fast Bucket.

266417

And I am pretty sure this Posti is going to cost much more than your average fast Bucket will to get going again.

266419

Some fast front running A grade Buckets at Mt Welly. (An FXR being chased by a gaggle of 2-Strokes.)

And if anyone still thinks that a front running Postie is going to be cheaper than building a very fast Bucket, could they please name any Bucket in NZ that has cost more than just the Ohlins suspension on Postie number 78 above, let alone the 35k engine build.

[gav]

Just to clarify the Development class run by CAMS is designed for 150SS, 250 Prolites and buckets. So its not an open class as far as a full out 150 2t goes but saying that no one would be too concerned if you turned up with something.
The CAMS club run the above class and a seperate bucket only class in each round of races, so yeah, plenty of racing for the buckets!!
One point that seems to being introduced is a limit of 40 bikes for the main BoB race, and prelim races being used as a guide for entry to the main race. Namely if you get lapped in a 5 lap sprint race you may not be starting the BoB endurance race.
NOTE: I don't agree with either of these plans ... :(

[richban]

I can beat him in a strait line

What the what now? Was that on the warm up lap or the warm down, or were you just joking. My bike is the fastest bike i the whole world and only gets passed in your dreams.

[TZ350]

266424

The stuff dreams are made of ....


My bike is the fastest bike in the whole world and only gets passed in your dreams.

Hang onto that thought.

266425

Av test riding 31 rwhp.

[Grumph]

Hi Drew, I know you were just taking the piss ... but I just can't pass up the chance to promote Buckets as an affordable race class.

And if anyone still thinks that a front running Postie is going to be cheaper than building a very fast Bucket, could they please name any Bucket in NZ that has cost more than just the Ohlins suspension on Postie number 78 above, let alone the 35k engine build.

Okay, Buckets are an affordable race class - even though you, TZ, are upping the ante with 30hp 2 strokes....

But the SI postie scene is not the NI scene - the amount of money spent on some of those bikes is obscene by SI standards - and yes, we go quick down here too. I can tell you that the bikes which won pre 82 and pre 89 at last years wyndham street races - part of the Burt Munro - were purchased for bucket prices. the pre 89 hasn't had much spent on it and is still winning. The pre 82 is about to have a relatively small amount spent - I'd rate it a bucket budget. It can be done.

[gav]

I thought the SI Pre 82 / Pre 89 was full of bucket racers who bought a cheap bike to fill in time between the more important races? :headbang:

[richban]

266424



Hang onto that thought.

266425

Av test riding 31 rwhp.

Stop it you big tezzz.

[TZ350]

Okay, Buckets are an affordable race class - even though you, TZ, are upping the ante with 30hp 2 strokes....

More by effort than money ..... for instance my current conrod kit is something I salvaged out of an old RGV crank, the tools I use are just basic hand tools, the GP cylinder pre dates TF125's, nothing fancy and I have posted everything I have done so there are no secrets.

Anyone can easily do the same, they only have to make the effort, with only little $$$ required to replicate what I have done on their own stroker. And there is a heap of good information on the ESE thread about 2-Stroke tuning thats been posted there by different people.

20hp was the reality in the days of Jennings and Bells books but now we know a bit more 30hp is possible.


But the SI postie scene is not the NI scene - the amount of money spent on some of those bikes is obscene by SI standards -

.... the big $$$$$$ bikes, I am not sure they have helped Posties flourish up here.

[Buckets4Me]

Best idea yet!

I like richards rules,

Superbucket class

100cc two stroke unlimited

150 4valve four stroke unlimited

200 2valve four stroke unlimited

Would be awesome!





And to the people taking the troll thread seriously, get a grip!

sounds like the ossie rules :p

I think we should shut down superbikes and the pro twin class

and maby sidecars (or just limit it to bucket sidecars)

then we would have more money and track time :drool:

[mossy1200]

Agree



That must be a joke ....

Not sure which post classic build you are refering to.... But front running, back or middle Post Classics are much more expensive than Buckets.

When I ran a Post Classic TZ350 a full engine rebuild, crank kit, pistons, chrome, clutch and doing the work myself each year was about $3,500, new tyres $600-800 and entry fees $150-200 a meeting.

Buckets at Mt Welly, engine bits for a full 2-stroke rebuild $600, tyres $200 (second hand RS125 slicks), entry fee $35.

266406

And I expect a front running Postie takes a lot of work and costs more to get on the track too ......

Agree. My posty carbs cost the same as my bucket build and $600 worth of tyres last less than a hour and a half of track time.

[worm13]

posties vs bucket cost... tend to agree with drew!! but saying that tho its as costly as you make it, I know of a 89 zxr brought for 1300 bucks and lately have found some and I say some for 1500ish then again ive seen some buckets for 300 and jnr postie bikes that have amazed me, some people want to go as fast as their budget will allow them... and sometimes more then their budget allows its horses for courses :) and by the way im considering the idea of heading back to buckets becasue im now over having broken body:scooter::scooter:

[TZ350]

posties vs bucket cost... tend to agree with drew!! but saying that tho its as costly as you make it, I know of a 89 zxr brought for 1300 bucks and lately have found some and I say some for 1500ish

Is that a true apples for apples comparison, the cheapest Posti compaired to the most expensive Bucket.


Not if you wanna run at the front it isn't. Post classics is cheaper.

Drew was talking about what it takes to be at the pointy end of the pack so I doubt that is a $1,300-1,500 Posti barn find run as is.

Grumph has pointed out to me that North and South Island approches to Posties is a bit different, he said the Northen Posti bikes are a bit over invested, and that made sense.

[Drew]

Is that a true apples for apples comparison, the cheapest Posti compaired to the most expensive Bucket.



Drew was talking about what it takes to be at the pointy end of the pack so I doubt that is a $1,500 Posti barn find run as is.

But Grumph has pointed out to me that North and South Island approches to Posties is a bit different, he said the Northen bikes are a bit over invested, made sense.

$1500 wont get you anywhere near the front of the pack with the best buckets around.

$2000 will get you a deregistered FZR1000, a set of emulators, and a service on the rear shock. Putting it somewhere near the front of the pre '89 racing that I've seen.

Running cost is higher of course, but you see my point.

[Grumph]

$1500 wont get you anywhere near the front of the pack with the best buckets around.

$2000 will get you a deregistered FZR1000, a set of emulators, and a service on the rear shock. Putting it somewhere near the front of the pre '89 racing that I've seen.

Running cost is higher of course, but you see my point.

Very true as far as it goes. There's been 2 appear down here and i remember one of them laying on the start finish straight at Levels...last we saw of him. Oyster's boys have one but don't have the budget to run it properly IMO.
Those things hurt some of NZ's best ever riders when they were new and unless they're kept up to scratch they'll bite....particularly on the short SI circuits. Cheap as chips but a disaster waiting for the unwary.
Dahn here there's a lot of fun to be had on smaller bikes - which are cheaper to maintain too.

[Yow Ling]

$1500 wont get you anywhere near the front of the pack with the best buckets around.

$2000 will get you a deregistered FZR1000, a set of emulators, and a service on the rear shock. Putting it somewhere near the front of the pre '89 racing that I've seen.

Running cost is higher of course, but you see my point.

Ill bet the dereg FZR has great tyres (700) compaired to bucket slicks (100)

I recently bought a 2005 CBR150 for 1200 a set of tyres was free but even if they were 100 that would be ok, needs an exhaust can make one for maybe $50 thats it for a season excluding petrol and oil , can do an oil change with Agip semi synthetic for $10

could you just run through the numbers for the FZR again?

[Drew]

Ill bet the dereg FZR has great tyres (700) compaired to bucket slicks (100)

I recently bought a 2005 CBR150 for 1200 a set of tyres was free but even if they were 100 that would be ok, needs an exhaust can make one for maybe $50 thats it for a season excluding petrol and oil , can do an oil change with Agip semi synthetic for $10

could you just run through the numbers for the FZR again?

Will the CBR run at the front of the pack?

[Yow Ling]

Will the CBR run at the front of the pack?

Should do soon, it has current NZ 125 champion riding it

[Drew]

Should do soon, it has current NZ 125 champion riding it

More power to ya, sounds to me like the price is about the same to get the thing to the track then.

Tyres for the FZR would be about $100-$200 for used superbike slicks/supersport tyres. And the supply is far more prolific than the half dozen or so entries in 125GP.

[TZ350]

$1500 wont get you anywhere near the front of the pack with the best buckets around.

$2000 will get you a deregistered FZR1000, a set of emulators, and a service on the rear shock. Putting it somewhere near the front of the pre '89 racing that I've seen.

Given that somewhere near the front is not exactly the pointy end, but ...

$2000 for the bike
$400 for gold emulators
$300 for shock
$600 for tyres
$300 for chain and sprockets
$150 for oil, plugs, filter, Etc.

$3750 all up, it would be interesting to know if Nick Cains current GP winning FXR150 cost more to get onto the track.

And you could certainly build a 30hp bike like mine for that sort of money (all the info is on the ESE thread) but you would have to invest more elbow grease for sure than just a tidy up of a running pre 89 FZR1000.

And that might be the real difference.

[TZ350]

Tyres for the FZR would be about $100-$200 for used superbike slicks/supersport tyres.

The rim widths for a Posti FZR are ??? or would you have to fit wider rims to run superbike slicks and what would that conversion cost??

[Yow Ling]

Given that somewhere near the front is not exactly the pointy end, but ...

$2000 for the bike
$400 for gold emulators
$300 for shock
$600 for tyres
$300 for chain and sprockets
$150 for oil, plugs, filter, Etc.

$3750 all up, it would be interesting to know if Nick Cains current GP winning FXR150 cost more to get onto the track.

And you could certainly build a 30hp bike like mine for that sort of money (all the info is on the ESE thread) but you would have to invest more elbow grease for sure than just a tidy up of a running FXR1000.

And that might be the real difference.

Actually Nicks CBR150 might not be the best example , it was bought new for about $7k for a junior one make series in aussie. They brought it back and raced it in buckets, was on the track today with his Dad riding it

[Yow Ling]

The rim widths for a Posti FZR are ??? or would you have to fit wider rims to run superbike slicks and what would that conversion cost??
Dont let the facts get in the way of his story

[TZ350]

Actually Nicks CBR150 might not be the best example , it was bought new for about $7k for a junior one make series in aussie. They brought it back and raced it in buckets, was on the track today with his Dad riding it

266476 Nick Cain after winning the Bucket GP at Taupo

Ohooo well I totaly screwed that up, looks like anything that runs at the front will have had a bit of money spent on it.

I think maybe the fast pointy end buckets have had more development time put into them than the South Island Postie's might have, which might make Posties easier to get into, but dollar wise I dont think Buckets are more expensive.

[Drew]

The rim widths for a Posti FZR are ??? or would you have to fit wider rims to run superbike slicks and what would that conversion cost??


5.5 inch rear rim on the thou I think. No issue running 190 section hoops.

I might be wrong in saying it can be done cheaper, but there's fuck all difference is there? And don't you think there should be?

Do you think that the very entry level class of racing in this country, which is meant to be cheap and fun, should cost that much to build a fast enough bike to win what ever titles there are?

[Kickaha]

Do you think that the very entry level class of racing in this country, which is meant to be cheap and fun, should cost that much to build a fast enough bike to win what ever titles there are?

Who said it's entry level? and that it's meant to be cheap and fun?
How much is your FZR going to cost when you toss it down the track and going by your record that wouldn't take to long

[TZ350]

5.5 inch rear rim on the thou I think. No issue running 190 section hoops.


http://www.bikez.com/motorcycles/yamaha_fzr_1000_genesis_1988.php

1988 FZR1000 Genisis Front 120/70 17 rear 160/60 18 road tyres so not the right sizes for slicks. Maybe there are other models with better rims sizes.

Entry level racing that compairs more closly to South Island Posties is probably 150SS and 250SL's.

Tuning wise Buckets has always been a little more serious. Its probably entry level racing for serious tuners.

[Drew]

Who said it's entry level? and that it's meant to be cheap and fun?
How much is your FZR going to cost when you toss it down the track and going by your record that wouldn't take to long


Lets assume someone with talent will be riding it.

[Henk]

Lets assume someone with talent will be riding it.

That just means that when it gets thrown down the track it will going faster doesn't it?

[Drew]

That just means that when it gets thrown down the track it will going faster doesn't it?

Real racers don't fall off as often as bucket racers.

[Henk]

Real racers don't fall off as often as bucket racers.

That's not the impression I got at the last couple of meets at HD that I have been to watch.

[TZ350]

Do you think that the very entry level class of racing in this country, which is meant to be cheap and fun, should cost that much to build a fast enough bike to win what ever titles there are?

Race commisioner Peter Rummage talking about Buckets ....


Hi again Gavin

As one who was building and racing buckets from the first day they escaped the Airforce, I can tell you the intent of the original rules was to encourage the building of performance, not simply the buying of horsepower in the guise of factory race parts.

Cheers
Peter R

Drew its not true that Buckets was conceived as an entry level race class, it can be for some but it really was conceived as a constructors class with certain eligibility rules designed to make sweat equity and cleverness count for more than $$$$$.

From day one there was serious tuning and construction going on.

For a buy it and ride it entry level race class compairable to your idea of a competitive Postie you need to look at street stocks or super lights or whatever the current small road bike limited modification class is.

Buckets as Cheap Entry Level racing ...... well it can be, but you will have to do some hands on work to be competitive at the pointy end.

[jasonu]

[QUOTE=TZ350;1130357816

$3750 all up, it would be interesting to know if Nick Cains current GP winning FXR150 cost more to get onto the track.
.[/QUOTE]

Even if it did it will most likely remain competitive for years to come (unless someone successfully gets the rules changed to allow 250 mx'ers ino Buckets...)
Not to mention the cost difference if either the FZR1000 or a fast bucket gets thrown down the road.

[Drew]

I will accept then, that my idea of the class is wrong. And concede that any changes are going to be met with more than not resistance.

I'll still look for a motor for my RGV frame, if I sell only the motor from it instead of the whole thing. And have fun running Glenn off the road.

[gav]

I think James Hoogie paid $3500 for his fully kitted Repsol CBR150 ex Andrew Forward. 2nd at BoB last year and 2nd at Bucket GP.

[TZ350]

I'll still look for a motor for my RGV frame. And have fun running Glenn off the road.

Welcome to Buckets .... :D

[ellipsis]

the Development class run by CAMS is designed for 150SS, 250 Prolites and buckets. So its not an open class as far as a full out 150 2t goes but saying that no one would be too concerned if you turned up with something(

...i'll clarify that, the CAMS 150/250 class is NOT a development class, it is a race class and we had no specific bikes classes models in mind when we said it would happen..the class is about building machines that are safe, go fast and dont resemble dirt bikes...competition motors are cool, as is making them more competitive...150 two stroke max..250 four stroke max, singles and twins...CAMS 150/250 is just about as open as you could get...just so happens that the classes gav mentions are eligible...

[koba]

Dude it's Kiwibiker, put the big words away and get over it.

Apart from mainly trying to troll a few people there is a small amount of genuine interest in changing the rules, but I know a lot of people in buckets are so precious about the "Current Rules" and seem so afraid of change that I didn't really bother with a "formal" approach.

I'd like to politely suggest that perhaps other things are being mistaken for "resistance to change". You appear to have misunderstood or disregarded the meaning of the post you have quoted there.

Sorry mate, but you are prime example of said person that seems oh so precious about your little bucket rule book, and lets face it they are a joke. Poorly written and so out of date now. The worst part is that MNZ have no interest and want to call us self policing. Hey you can always protest me.... :lol:

"...oh so precious about your little bucket rule book..." Come on man, no need to be patronising. It's better for everybody if this is debated without it going down that track.
I've tried to be as clear as possible on this, my main issue is with your approach to this, your suggestion (true or not) of building a bike and showing up with scant regard for the rules or how your actions affect other competitors, not the details of any suggested rule changes.
Changes like those suggested are something that should be discussed and decided on based on a general consensus, rather than someone deciding to force their own agenda.

My main question of interest is apart from the reply "leave the rules alone" which is a fantastic way to get shit stuck in the past, what possibility does this concept have of hurting buckets? None, I can tell you though that there would be another half a dozen top level riders that would be racing buckets now that aren't because they don't want to muck around with engines they just want something close enough and will make the rest up with rider skill.

This paragraph demonstrates part of the problem I have with your approach, you 'ask' a question that you have already decided on your own answer to.



You have the skills, resources and abilities to build a fantastic bucket, you are in a far better position to do so than most competitors, yet others manage to play by the "the little bucket rulebook".


You already have a bucket that may have turned the fastest lap-times on Kaitoke, sure it may be poked now but you will have trouble convincing me that an old MX engine will be any more reliable than a solidly built and well maintained MB/H100. (Don't get me wrong, that's not a slight on the engine you had, it had proved it's worth over it's long life)


Is it really that hard to just come and play on something legal?

[TZ350]

...the class is about building machines that are safe, go fast and dont resemble dirt bikes...competition motors are cool, as is making them more competitive...150 two stroke max...

If I lived down CHCH way, a bored out RGV250 cylinder on a stroked GP125 bottom end, a big carb no holds barred 150cc 40+ hp 2-stroke, what joy.

[Buckets4Me]

If I lived down CHCH way, a bored out RGV250 cylinder on a stroked GP125 bottom end, a big carb no holds barred 150cc 40+ hp 2-stroke, what joy.

If I lived down that way Ned kellys rs125 engine with a bigger piston would be the way I'd go :2thumbsup:killingme and all for under $2000 beat that

or i could go buy one of those new fandageld 4 bangers that replaced the rs125 if I wanted to empty the wallet :angry2::crazy:

[Sketchy_Racer]

You have the skills, resources and abilities to build a fantastic bucket, you are in a far better position to do so than most competitors, yet others manage to play by the "the little bucket rulebook".


You already have a bucket that may have turned the fastest lap-times on Kaitoke, sure it may be poked now but you will have trouble convincing me that an old MX engine will be any more reliable than a solidly built and well maintained MB/H100. (Don't get me wrong, that's not a slight on the engine you had, it had proved it's worth over it's long life)


Is it really that hard to just come and play on something legal?

Yeah I see where you're coming from man and it's a fair view I guess

My attitude towards the "rules" of buckets is that they are never updated due to a consensus. in the 10 years i've been racing buckets, I have never seen a rule changed before the fact.

Eg: When I started racing the FXR is was illegal due to the fact that it was over the current 140cc limit of the time. But they got popular and people accepted them so the rule book had to be updated. Even way back then Fishies GL145 was breaking the 140cc rule. Were we all just a bunch of reckless rule breakers? hardly. (Except Bayden and his 190cc suzuki :lol:)

My point being is that I could go the formal way about it however this has been addressed on a formal front before but was met with the argument "the rules aren't broken so lets not fix them" which sort of attitude shits me to tears. Where's the "lets make it more interesting and more inviting to more people?" The bigger it gets the better it gets and I would like to see a better combination of top tuners VS top riders because lets face it not everyone wants to muck around with motors but want a bike that is close to competitive and ride the wheels off it.

The fact of the matter is I could fight for a year and get everyone onside have a rule change and get 80cc MX motors out there, only to find they are complete rubbish, OR I can try the concept as NON mnz events and see how it goes and see if there is any interest in the idea. (and if it is any good)

Either way, my long term plan is to have a motor that fits into the current rules and make lots of HP so I don't really care. I just want to put this CR80 in my bucket chassis and have a blast while I design and build the other one.

[gav]

How about a Moto3 bike then? :drool:
Thanks for clearing that up Neal, the "development class" is what MCI calls Streetstocks now, and includes buckets, 150SS and 250 Prolites. I guess the CAMS class is a bit looser :clap: :2thumbsup

[Buddha#81]

...i'll clarify that, the CAMS 150/250 class is NOT a development class, it is a race class and we had no specific bikes classes models in mind when we said it would happen..the class is about building machines that are safe, go fast and dont resemble dirt bikes...competition motors are cool, as is making them more competitive...150 two stroke max..250 four stroke max, singles and twins...CAMS 150/250 is just about as open as you could get...just so happens that the classes gav mentions are eligible...

I know of a 250 4t single going into a well sorted late 80's alloy frame for this class........good luck to std s/s and mini lite bikes! this is going to be a fun class. A old 125 gp bike (or even a newer one) would ruin everyones day with ease! Bren ya got that RM125 going yet? Buckets qualify but wont be long before there are being outgunned:ar15:

[bucketracer]

Either i'll do this, or i'll chuck a shit load of money at something that's "legal" and has twice the power of the CR and be that dickhead with the out of hand expensive bucket with a 125GP chassis with lightweight racing wheels, brand new tyres ohlins front and rear, electronic ignitions etc ... hmm yep the spirit of buckets.

It will probably take more tuning talent than money ... So calling your bluff, bet you cant make twice the power of the CR with something "legal" no matter how much money you throw at it .....


The rule reads pretty clearly from where I'm looking - the use of competition engines and gearboxes is specifically disallowed ....... the ORIGINAL wording from 25 odd years ago is probably better, but what we have now is fine.

As one who was building and racing buckets from the first day they escaped the Airforce, I can tell you the intent of the original rules was to encourage the building of performance, not simply the buying of horsepower in the guise of factory race parts. So the rules specifically excluded the use of these ....

Cheers
Peter R

If you want to talk about the spirit of Bucket racing then where does just buying your CR80 hp because you are to lazy or un talented to build a good engine thats legal and competitive fit.

I know your a top talented rider and I may only ever be an also ran mid fielder however hard I try, so I could be on my own with this, but I think if you want to beat me at Bucket racing you should build your own motor within the rules and the spirit of Buckets to do it with.

[cotswold]

or i could go buy one of those new fandageld 4 bangers that replaced the rs125 if I wanted to empty the wallet :angry2::crazy:[/QUOTE]


Or fill the scrap bin, watched last nights round one rider on 7th motor one failed to start off grid and i thought they said 9th, so much for a cheaper class :lol:

[jasonu]

Eg: When I started racing the FXR is was illegal due to the fact that it was over the current 140cc limit of the time. But they got popular and people accepted them so the rule book had to be updated. Even way back then Fishies GL145 was breaking the 140cc rule. Were we all just a bunch of reckless rule breakers? hardly. (Except Bayden and his 190cc suzuki :lol:)

.

Not sure if that is correct. IIRC, and I think I do, the original 4 stroke rule change was about 12 years ago and was from 125cc to 145cc specifically to allow the GL145 (ask me how I know). The rule was then quite correctly updated to allow 150cc because of the appearence of the FXR. These rules were changed in a very successful effort to save a floundering class. Allowing the 80cc mx engines will only help out a couple of people who may have one laying around in the shed.
Besides that, even if you can find an 80mx engine chances are little Johnny has caned it from arsehole to breakfast with little or no regard to its health as it was daddy who had to fix it and it will require MAJOR surgery = lotsa cash to get running again.

[Buckets4Me]

Not sure if that is correct. IIRC, and I think I do, the original 4 stroke rule change was about 12 years ago and was from 125cc to 145cc specifically to allow the GL145 (ask me how I know). The rule was then quite correctly updated to allow 150cc because of the appearence of the FXR. These rules were changed in a very successful effort to save a floundering class. Allowing the 80cc mx engines will only help out a couple of people who may have one laying around in the shed.
Besides that, even if you can find an 80mx engine chances are little Johnny has caned it from arsehole to breakfast with little or no regard to its health as it was daddy who had to fix it and it will require MAJOR surgery = lotsa cash to get running again.

but how are they going to save an already overflowing class ????


and as you say it's cheaper to put the engine backtogether and sell it to the next kid
makeing some money to start that fxr build :2thumbsup
or if you are realy cleaver you know how much and easy it is to rebuild and hot up a 2 stroke and have started your own build on a leggal engine :apint:

[TZ350]

I have no problem restricting it so that it is same speed as say hamish's bike in a straight line which is what I would call a moderately powered FXR150 (around 20ish HP I would guess??)

To be realy fair to those who are playing by the rules, maybe you could restrict it to the slowest legal Bucket entered on the day, no one should feel cheated then.

[fi5hy]

Everyone buy a CRF150 motor standard carb,cdi and exhaust under 90DBA and so be it lets get down to the best rider on the day wins!!!

O yea and those 2 smoke things you guys ride:nya:

[FastFred]

Everyone buy a CRF150 motor standard carb,cdi and exhaust under 90DBA and so be it lets get down to the best rider on the day wins!!!

Given a good bike a talented rider can win, but this class is about building then riding and if the "TALENT" the Sketchy talks about can't be arsed mucking about with engines then boohoo is my opinion. I built my bike within the rules and expect them to too.

And as far as TF125's being relics from the past and all worn out, well tell me when did they stop making them. I think they are still sold new aren't they.

And no one has explained why a TF cant make race winning high 20's hp, I bet TeeZee could, and he has posted everything on the ESE thread that you need to know, to be able to do it too.

So get of your arse, stop being lazy and get on with it I recon.

[F5 Dave]

Hey Fred, it was good to catch up with you last time I was in Chch. Boy you can drink some.

Bet you're glad I stopped you making that post about TZ, I'm sure he'll apologise for what he said about you.


Had a quick scan of TM for interests sake. $1000-1400 for an 80 in going but probably sad state. Remove engine & good luck selling anything else off the bike. Who would want RM80 chassis parts? I think its a non starter for many reasons, most of which have been covered.

Last time I rode a CR80 around Kaitoke it was evil. Course the suspension bottomed out under my 80kg & knobbly tyres probably didn't help:lol:

[Drew]

Those of us without the wallet for machine shop time, are having a bitch that our bikes are too slow.

This is kiwibiker after all, why people take it seriously I will never understand.

[F5 Dave]

Who are you talking about? Sketchy for example virtually lives in a hi tech machine shop. He's being provocative & heck why not, but I don't personaly agree with the idea for the class. Maybe if we start to see numbers dropping for lack of bikes. Not the case atm.

[richban]

Who are you talking about? Sketchy for example virtually lives in a hi tech machine shop. He's being provocative & heck why not, but I don't personaly agree with the idea for the class. Maybe if we start to see numbers dropping for lack of bikes. Not the case atm.

Also will any victory be hollow? Not that he will win any races.;)

[F5 Dave]

Ahh, I hear he's a wobbly old man now.

[FastFred]

Hey Fred, it was good to catch up with you last time I was in Chch. Boy you can drink some. Bet you're glad I stopped you making that post about TZ, I'm sure he'll apologise for what he said about you.

Yre great couple days, once I got used to it, I found when you placed your hand on my thigh, mildly exciting, we should catch up again soon.


Those of us without the wallet for machine shop time, are having a bitch that our bikes are too slow. This is kiwibiker after all, why people take it seriously I will never understand.

Taking it to seriously, please forgive me, cough, cough, just a bad case of coal, and a desire get to some recognition for the actual builders of competitive Buckets.

[F5 Dave]

Well played, Touche

[Drew]

Yre great couple days, once I got used to it, I found when you placed your hand on my thigh, mildly exciting, we should catch up again soon.



Taking it to seriously, please forgive me, cough, cough, just a bad case of coal, and a desire get to some recognition for the actual builders of competitive Buckets.

The engineering that has gone in to some of the bikes is simply astounding for sure. There's a lot of ugly pieces of shit too.

My bike will fall into the later category until a machinist takes pity on me and does some funky things to my spare casings.

[TZ350]

The engineering that has gone in to some of the bikes is simply astounding for sure. There's a lot of ugly pieces of shit too.

My bike will fall into the later category until a machinist takes pity on me and does some funky things to my spare casings.

Starting out ugly, its traditional ....

266500 266501

Pretty much where we started out. I think the first time we putted around the track on a test day they still had bits of hay hanging off them.

[Buckets4Me]

Starting out ugly, its traditional ....

266500 266501

Pretty much where we started out. I think the first time we putted around the track on a test day they still had bits of hay hanging off them.

and the go fast mod was to turn the handlebars upside down :p
266508266510and some more pics of the same 2 bikes
266509266511

and at least one has now split into 2
the engine is now in an rs frame and the old frame has a cb100 in it for F5
the other has the engine in an fzr frame and the old wheels are on an rg50 with the frame being saved for something els (turboed 100 I heard but dont think they will get around to it)

[gav]

Had a round of buckets at Bears round on Sunday, good to see some new guys turning up, and other guys turning up with new rides.
Had a guy first time out racing on his RGV framed Loncin
266512

Another new guy had bought a tidy FXR ready to race, plus the $1000 bike ex Stu Hines. Ghostie was out on his new FXR, one of Brendans specials, a step up from his old TS125 racer. We had the current NZ 125 champ out on a CBR150, and even Brendan brought a new toy to the track for the first time!
266513

Seems there is plenty of interest still down this end of the country! :cool:

[F5 Dave]

Yeah he said he was going to test out the TZR, obviously it stayed together?

[koba]

Those of us without the wallet for machine shop time, are having a bitch that our bikes are too slow.


I'm quite enjoying slowly evolving my engine, It's cost stuff all over the time it's taken and the satisfaction of improving it is fantastic.

11 hp with less than a 1000rpm spread was pretty bad and very hard to ride but I still managed to keep up ok.


After what I saw looking over your shoulder today I'm even more dubious about what one is likely to find inside an old MX engine...

[koba]

Either way, my long term plan is to have a motor that fits into the current rules and make lots of HP so I don't really care. I just want to put this CR80 in my bucket chassis and have a blast while I design and build the other one.

This post is a bit weird, it was meant to be two but I juggled things around so they work better.

I still don't agree and think it's very poor form to show up on one. It's not the same as bending rules to suit a bike someone wants to get started on and I really can't see positives that outweigh the negative 'arms race' factor.

If making cheap, easily competitive buckets is really the goal; importing an container load of CBR150's or similar from Southeast Asia sounds like a more useful approach.
Legalise MX 80's and it will be good for the first few on-board but soon market forces will make them the same as everything else or likely worse due to 'flog factor' and the harder tuned nature of them, sure the pistons will be better quality but we can already use MX pistons.




Here is an auction worth looking at:
http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/moto...-494250442.htm

Why not hit him up about the GT engine and use that, perhaps you could share development resources with Drew to get a single 24mm carb working on one. Much easier with pooled resources as the ESE guys constantly show.

A CR 80 could make an interesting powerplant for a pit-bike sidecar...

[Drew]

After what I saw looking over your shoulder today I'm even more dubious about what one is likely to find inside an old MX engine...

I've been giving that some thought. There was evidence on the piston of a siezure, but none in the bore. With that much play the slug wouldn't sieze anyway, it'd pitch sideways and get caught under a port edge or summat.

That motor has been completely bastardised, and then it's been botched together to get running with parts that someone has scrounged out of other shit.

I doubt an 80 would still run in that condition, to be ridden even down the street.

[Yow Ling]

I've been giving that some thought. There was evidence on the piston of a siezure, but none in the bore. With that much play the slug wouldn't sieze anyway, it'd pitch sideways and get caught under a port edge or summat..

Having lots of play actually increases the chance of seizure, all the blowby gas going past the rings helps the oil film in the bore to break down, causing a seizure. Otherwise everyone would run massive piston bore clearance

[Drew]

Having lots of play actually increases the chance of seizure, all the blowby gas going past the rings helps the oil film in the bore to break down, causing a seizure. Otherwise everyone would run massive piston bore clearance

That makes sense, but the piston looks like a cheese grater, and there's not a mark on the bore. The motor in question is something very dodgy, in so many ways I can't comprehend.

[jasonu]

. The motor in question is something very dodgy, in so many ways I can't comprehend.

Wot, stolen???

[Drew]

Wot, stolen???

Not that we know of. Is an MX bike though so who would know.

Motor has been stroked, sleeved, power valves welded open and shit. Was prolly quite the weapon when it was being raced even though it woulda been illegal. Thing is though, piston in there reads 67.5mm but has more than half a mil of slop, so we can safely assume it should be a 68mm. The small and big end bearings are fucked. When I took the stator cover off to get the clutch cable out, I need to put the drain tray under it to catch all the petrol.

This is a bike that requires new rims, because the spokes were left loose too long, and they have all stared to pull through the rim.

New fork seals, after the gromet things are replaced to get rid of the play in the forks.

All this from, "could you come over and get the breaks working on this bike for me"?

[F5 Dave]

Ahh, old dirt bikes & the questionable parentage of their previous owners.:crazy:

[koba]

Thing is though, piston in there reads 67.5mm but has more than half a mil of slop, so we can safely assume it should be a 68mm.

Should probably measure that, even if just with feeler guages.

I've seen seize marks on piston with a clean bore before, I think it might happen sometimes if it seizes not-too-badly when it's hot and then is cooled, started and ridden again. Rings clean bore. :crazy:

[Drew]

Should probably measure that, even if just with feeler guages.

I've seen seize marks on piston with a clean bore before, I think it might happen sometimes if it seizes not-too-badly when it's hot and then is cooled, started and ridden again. Rings clean bore. :crazy:


Priced up the new bits for that thing today. $2600 provided nothing else is fucked. That motor will be going to the scrappy.

Crank is from a 360 motor, slug is standard size for the 250, and the fact that it's sleeved is just fuckin weird man, perhaps that piston seized in the ally bore, and they chucked some steam pipe in there but didn't do anything about a new piston.

Too many what if's, bottom line it's not going back in.

[F5 Dave]

MX parts are a good source of cheap bits & rebuild cranks themselves. But yeah sleeves are a naff solution & never know how well has been done.

[Henk]

Sounds like a case of "throw it away mate" to me.

[gav]

So what was the motor ?

[Drew]

So what was the motor ?
Started life as a 250sx ktm.