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Asher
14th July 2012, 11:46
Figured i would most likely need alot of advise on this so figured i would start a rebuild thread.

At the start of the year i purchased my first bike; a 93 RGV250 VJ22.
The bike had a bit of work done it not long before i brought it like new pistons and full service and came with receipts.
Since then there has hardly been a week when i havent been hooning around on it and have added 12k to the odo.
Coming into to winter i figured i would try and give the bike a full going over to get it ready again for spring/summer

Heres a list of what i plan to do (being updated as i go).
-Replace bottom end (covered in cracks and leaking oil)
-Replace Pistons, head and base gaskets
-Replace chain and sprockets
-Polish all bare metal.
-Re-spray and decal fairings
-Repaint brakes
-Replace thermostat (stuck open)
-Replace indicator relay or possibly LH switch block (i need to find why why indicators are being dicks)

-Buy bling for it and a banana swing arm is on my wishlist.

Heres a few pics:
From when i first got it:
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=259721&d=1331634604

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=259722&d=1331634616

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=263896&d=1337502183

And some with some new fairings for it (91 SP i think):
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7259/7564905254_f46a2d3c83_c.jpg

Asher
14th July 2012, 11:58
First thing i did was to strip back all the blue anodised parts on it back to bare metal. Drain cleaner (Draino) did a great job, i tried 2 different type of oven cleaner but they didnt work at all.
Heres a pic of my now polished fuel cap:
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8157/7564925814_1e0134154e_c.jpg


On Thursday i picked up a new bottom end for the bike from Imdying.
Its off another 93 but apparently off a restricted model so has a short ratio gear box.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8424/7564948992_b9dd05114d_c.jpg

Asher
14th July 2012, 12:15
Yesterday i went and brought a dremel to save time on polishing and spent last night sanding and polishing my rear sets:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7110/7564973844_992e3bb4b6_b.jpg

Today i plan to pull my engine out, start stripping it down and swap the gear box into the new bottom end.
Heres a few pics of it before it all comes apart:

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7253/7564997234_21b61c3213_b.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8144/7564996922_330952b7b6_b.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7109/7564996496_f4e57a3aaa_b.jpg

You can see on the last pic the engine oil down the swing arm and onto the tyres side wall and on the expansion chamber.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7140/7565019118_4881b8ed8a_b.jpg

tigertim20
14th July 2012, 12:42
good thread! keep us updated as you go

Asher
14th July 2012, 15:42
So engine is out, not the easiest job to do alone.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8291/7565802298_66521a27bd_b.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7122/7565801550_26339d618f_b.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8024/7565801864_290c3b61e5_b.jpg

Heres a mount for the expansion chamber thats broken that i will try and get welded back on this weekend:
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8157/7565802618_1f882c8824_b.jpg

Broken mount for the oil reservoir that i will need to get welded back up too:
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8433/7565802978_68949903fb_b.jpg

Heres the thermostat, i have never seen one before other than in pics so could someone tell me if its stuck open? the bike had been running really cool.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8162/7565803214_eb8c0a8266_b.jpg

Asher
16th July 2012, 13:42
Didnt manage to get the gear boxes out over the weekend as i spent way too long extracting a stripped power valve retaining screw.
I did manage to strip the engines down further though and had the covers and cylinders soaking in kerosene and degreaser over night which did a great job of removing carbon from the power valves and exhaust ports and removing alot of grease and oil.

Tonight i plan to prep the exhausts for welding and will probably go over them with a high temp black gloss paint and will look into putting a carbon wrap over my silencers.

I will add more photos tonight as im having trouble uploading them from my phone.

Does anyone have any experience with the cougar power valve mod? http://www.thetuningworks.co.uk/store/images/RGV250%20PV%20REPAIR%20KIT.jpg?rand=193911043
are they worth 120 pound?
And also how much better are the boyesen reeds if at all? Theres nothing wrong with my OEM ones but it seems like one of the easiest places to improve performance and would i need rejetting to suit them?

Thanks

Sable
16th July 2012, 16:34
What do you mean 'bottom end is covered in cracks'. Why replace pistons if top end is all good? Do the chain and sprockets really need doing? As for polishing all bare metal, I wouldn't. If your bike gets left outside a bit you'll have white alloy corrosion blooming up. Chinese replica fairings pre-painted are a better bet than getting your standard ones professionally painted, and rattlecans just look shit. I would imagine a close-ratio gear box would be more desirable? Also looks like you just dumped all the fluids from the bike on the ground, sloppy as fuck. Do you have a manual with torque specifications and a torque wrench? Also don't bother with high temperature paint, get the chambers coated with this http://www.hpcoatings.co.nz/ExhaustHeatManagement/tabid/32279/Default.aspx#HiPerCoat .

Sable
16th July 2012, 16:43
I also notice the adjustable spanner on the ground. In the trade these are called nutfuckers. Use the right size spanner/socket or don't bother.

Asher
16th July 2012, 16:52
What do you mean 'bottom end is covered in cracks'. Why replace pistons if top end is all good? Do the chain and sprockets really need doing? As for polishing all bare metal, I wouldn't. If your bike gets left outside a bit you'll have white alloy corrosion blooming up. Chinese replica fairings pre-painted are a better bet than getting your standard ones professionally painted, and rattlecans just look shit. I would imagine a close-ratio gear box would be more desirable? Also looks like you just dumped all the fluids from the bike on the ground, sloppy as fuck. Do you have a manual with torque specifications and a torque wrench? Also don't bother with high temperature paint, get the chambers coated with this http://www.hpcoatings.co.nz/ExhaustHeatManagement/tabid/32279/Default.aspx#HiPerCoat .

Actually some of what i thought were cracks were casting marks, it did have several cracks around some joins making still worth while to replace and Imdying gave me a reasonable price for it.
Ive done around 12000km on those pistons so im not willing to do much more and risk doing some serious damage to the cylinders.
The sprockets and chain have done similar kms to the pistons and the rear sprocket is buggered with the teeth really worn and pointy.
I have a friend thats able to spray the fairings so i will get him to paint it then look at making some decals made up for it but i am starting to wonder if im just asking for trouble polishing my frame, i might just give it a good clean and spend the money and time on something else.
By short ratio g/b i mean low ratio, apparently the restricted 45hp japanese models used different boxes.

All that grime on the ground is a combination of the last the coolant left in the radiator and from some split fuel from the float bowls onto a dirty engine.

Sable
16th July 2012, 18:12
12,000km is not very much for a road bike top end. I had an RG150 with 23,000km and everything was fine, I have a friend with an RGV250 that's done 30,000km on a rebuild. Unless it's rattling and you're losing power through blowby I wouldn't bother? <_<

Asher
16th July 2012, 21:14
12,000km is not very much for a road bike top end. I had an RG150 with 23,000km and everything was fine, I have a friend with an RGV250 that's done 30,000km on a rebuild. Unless it's rattling and you're losing power through blowby I wouldn't bother? <_<

Ive been told 15k out of a top end is a lot

imdying
16th July 2012, 21:19
It's a short ratio box, not a close ratio one. Don't use that coating, it'll change the characteristics of the pipes, stick with paint. If it's in bits, replace the pistons, they're cheap. Rattlecans only look shit if you do a shitty job, but they are definitely not cost effective. A litre of paint is cheap and goes a long way, a lot further than half a dozen rattle cans which cost more in any case.

F5 Dave
17th July 2012, 11:48
. . . i am starting to wonder if im just asking for trouble polishing my frame, i might just give it a good clean and spend the money and time on something else. . .
Yes. seen quite a few attempts that only did a bit of one side.

+1 on the Nix on HPC coating. Not the go on 2 stroke pipes. I've learnt the hard way.

Asher
17th July 2012, 12:10
Yes. seen quite a few attempts that only did a bit of one side.

+1 on the Nix on HPC coating. Not the go on 2 stroke pipes. I've learnt the hard way.

I might look into getting the frame and some parts anodized black if the price isnt too much.
Anyone tried POR15 (http://www.permanentpaintedcoatings.co.nz/por15/high_temp.aspx) paint? I have used POR15 on other thing before and it came out alright.

imdying
17th July 2012, 12:29
Ok, you can't anodize the frame black. The cast and extruded portions of the frame have different silicon content (pretty sure that's it). The cast portions have a higher content to allow the metal to flow into the mold. Long story short, it'll come out patchy and in different shades, and basically look revolting. If you want a black frame, powder coat it or 2 pak paint it. The paint will be glossier, and have a smoother finish, but the powder will take more abuse. For a black frame, powder is the way to go. Or bake enamelling, but the coater will talk through the options with you, you could try the place on Buchan Street, they've done good work for me before.

For the pipes, just use cheap rattle can BBQ paint in satin black. When you decoke the exhausts it'll all fall off, and then you simply spray them again, and off you go :)

An alternative is to buy a set of Tyga stainless expansion chambers. They're cheap and you can leave them natural finish.

/edit: The reason the factory frame is anodized is because it's a 'natural' finish (or clear if you like). Leave that on there, it gives the frame a much harder surface than it would otherwise have... it won't bother the powder coating anyway

bogan
17th July 2012, 12:44
I was told (by the anodiser) that black would be the best color for it, due to minimal variation between the different alloys making up the part. He reckoned 120bucks for a swingarm, so I guestimated not much change from 400 for the frame and swingarm. And for that price I agree with imdying, color variation isn't worth it. Plenty of frames have come up nicely with powdercoating though, and probably half the price.


An alternative is to buy a set of Tyga stainless expansion chambers. They're cheap and you can leave them natural finish.

Tyga have gone under haven't they? Might be hard to find the pipes. Worth it if you can though, a mate had some on his NSR :drool:

F5 Dave
17th July 2012, 12:53
Anodisers are often very un-scientific, some are putting in the research, but most are old world. I think you'll find they work on a pot luck & 'there you go mate, that's what you get' approach

Either way modern manufacturers run different casting processes from 90s bikes that now make anodising possible if you know what you are doing. In your case yes I'd predict blotchy yueck. Swing arm 'might' come out ok. Some alys anodise better than others.

Rattle can pipes? probably best, but I'd add that you can increase your chances with preparation. A dip bath & some PJ1 pipe paint will do you better than a wipe with meths & some random 'Hi Temp' paint from Rrepco.

Asher
17th July 2012, 13:06
Thanks for all the answers guys, sounds like this rebuild is getting cheaper and cheaper for me.

This is a reply to a email from one of the metal finishers in chch:
"We could do a Silver finish but not a Black finish. The problem is with draining and the chemical that gets trapped in the hollow sections of the bike frame. The cleaning chemicals also strip off anodising and this would badly effect the black finish while the silver can sometimes hide it better."

imdying
17th July 2012, 15:04
Tyga have gone under haven't they?No, and are unlikely to.


This is a reply to a email from one of the metal finishers in chch:
"We could do a Silver finish but not a Black finish. The problem is with draining and the chemical that gets trapped in the hollow sections of the bike frame. The cleaning chemicals also strip off anodising and this would badly effect the black finish while the silver can sometimes hide it better."Yeah, just leave that alone, nothing to gain there.

My advice would be to refinish nothing, get it assembled and tuned, and then decide what you want to tart up. Then it's just a simple diassemble and reassemble with care. If you start painting shit now, it'll get raped when you need to have another crack at things. Even tuning involves taking it to bits and putting it back together somewhat; which is just more opportunity to scratch it.

bogan
17th July 2012, 15:14
No, and are unlikely to.

Ahh, it was tygausa that have gone under, not tyga performance. You can see how I might get confused!

Fast Eddie
17th July 2012, 15:17
Ahh, it was tygausa that have gone under, not tyga performance. You can see how I might get confused!

lol didn't even know there was 2? same company? cause Tyga Performance is also a yank firm..

but yea they still up and running, I got a couple small bits off them.. that and The Tuning Works - got you covered for 2 strokes! its mint :D

wish the old blade was this easy to get bits for..

Drew
17th July 2012, 15:33
www.rgvspares.com

These guys have everything, and bloody well priced.

Asher
17th July 2012, 15:45
www.rgvspares.com

These guys have everything, and bloody well priced.

Too bad they have taken part of their site down

imdying
17th July 2012, 16:28
lol didn't even know there was 2? same company? cause Tyga Performance is also a yank firm..It's a Thai firm, run by a couple of Brits.


www.rgvspares.com

These guys have everything, and bloody well priced.Whilst he is actually well known and respected, I probably would avoid him (or anybody running a business in a similar manner, it's nothing personal).

Drew
17th July 2012, 18:11
Whilst he is actually well known and respected, I probably would avoid him (or anybody running a business in a similar manner, it's nothing personal).

You're gonna need to esplain that for me man. I've got a VJ21 that I'm gonna need parts for, and that was gonna be my go to for the hard to find bits.

imdying
17th July 2012, 18:37
You're gonna need to esplain that for me man. I've got a VJ21 that I'm gonna need parts for, and that was gonna be my go to for the hard to find bits.That we're closed but you can email me stuff has been on there for as long as I can remember now, and others I know have had trouble getting in contact, but have had the bits they want delivered. That's fine, but it's how too many stories about people never seeing their money again start. He's definitely all legit and well known, but just makes me wary... It's the kind of stuff that turns a wrong part into an ordeal. Given the choice, I would rather deal with Sean at The Tuning Works. That business is a major part of his life and he bends over backwards to help his customers. I know that's super flakey sounding... so you'll have to value it at what you paid for it I guess... but I'd really rather not see any of the RGV brethren get screwed at any stage.... trade for sure, just keep on top of it like you would an eBay trade.

Drew
17th July 2012, 18:50
That we're closed but you can email me stuff has been on there for as long as I can remember now, and others I know have had trouble getting in contact, but have had the bits they want delivered. That's fine, but it's how too many stories about people never seeing their money again start. He's definitely all legit and well known, but just makes me wary... It's the kind of stuff that turns a wrong part into an ordeal. Given the choice, I would rather deal with Sean at The Tuning Works. That business is a major part of his life and he bends over backwards to help his customers. I know that's super flakey sounding... so you'll have to value it at what you paid for it I guess... but I'd really rather not see any of the RGV brethren get screwed at any stage.... trade for sure, just keep on top of it like you would an eBay trade.

Doesn't seem to have the same range of parts that RGV spares did.

In particular, they don't have a set of segmented expansion chambers listed. I love those pipes!

Asher
17th July 2012, 21:25
For the pipes, just use cheap rattle can BBQ paint in satin black. When you decoke the exhausts it'll all fall off, and then you simply spray them again, and off you go :)

Whats tips do you have for decoking the exhausts? ive seen putting a gas torch down one end and burning it out but i dont really have access to one of those

Drew
18th July 2012, 06:47
Whats tips do you have for decoking the exhausts? ive seen putting a gas torch down one end and burning it out but i dont really have access to one of those

Put LPG in there and drop a match in.














Disclaimer, anyone who is dumb enough to try this, should be allowed to do so as part of natural selection.

Asher
18th July 2012, 08:42
Put LPG in there and drop a match in.

Disclaimer, anyone who is dumb enough to try this, should be allowed to do so as part of natural selection.

Is that why the call it an expansion chamber?

F5 Dave
18th July 2012, 09:22
A mate just got VJ23 crank & top end parts & unrestricted CDI etc from Aus spares chap, but he was a tickle slow to respond & not super friendly despite it being a $2k+ order. People don't want to stay in business sometimes, but his prices are keen.

NAR RG500
18th July 2012, 09:38
I have painted more expansion chambers than most, and highly recommend POR15 for the job. Have run it on race bikes and even then it still stays on.

I saw your bike in a the Yamaha shop in CHCH over Christmas, must have been just before you bought it.

For de-carboning them, if you don't have gas then light a fire in a brazier or even just an open one, not too hot though, get the pipe burning then compressed air down the pipe keeps it burning real good when it's hot, all falls out, job done.

Then take them to the sand blaster, they will only need a light blast, then POR15 straight on, job done :niceone:

Can send you pics of completed ones if you like.

Cheers

Asher
18th July 2012, 09:44
I have painted more expansion chambers than most, and highly recommend POR15 for the job. Have run it on race bikes and even then it still stays on.

I saw your bike in a the Yamaha shop in CHCH over Christmas, must have been just before you bought it.

For de-carboning them, if you don't have gas then light a fire in a brazier or even just an open one, not too hot though, get the pipe burning then compressed air down the pipe keeps it burning real good when it's hot, all falls out, job done.

Then take them to the sand blaster, they will only need a light blast, then POR15 straight on, job done :niceone:

Can send you pics of completed ones if you like.

Cheers

Do i need to get the flames into the exhausts or will heating it from the outside in be enough?

NAR RG500
18th July 2012, 10:04
Put them entry end down and try to get a bit of flame in there but heat is the main thing, don't get way too hot and distort them though.

Once the carbon is hot enough is just keeps burning on it's own.

Asher
18th July 2012, 10:39
Put them entry end down and try to get a bit of flame in there but heat is the main thing, don't get way too hot and distort them though.

Once the carbon is hot enough is just keeps burning on it's own.

Thanks, i will burn a bit of garden rubbish this weekend and put them on that

F5 Dave
18th July 2012, 12:03
Your neighbours will love you.

I used to do any burning at night so no one would know.


POR15 in what format do you use? Are you brushing it on?? Never seen a spray can of it & quick google didn't pick up much.

Asher
18th July 2012, 12:33
Your neighbours will love you.

I used to do any burning at night so no one would know.


POR15 in what format do you use? Are you brushing it on?? Never seen a spray can of it & quick google didn't pick up much.

The joys of living rural.
The site said you had to add thinners to be able to spray it

NAR RG500
18th July 2012, 12:38
Your neighbours will love you.

I used to do any burning at night so no one would know.


POR15 in what format do you use? Are you brushing it on?? Never seen a spray can of it & quick google didn't pick up much.

http://www.por15.com/BLACK-VELVET/productinfo/BVH/

Spray it for sure, it doesn't come in a spray can though, a cheap gun and small compressor will do the job if that's all you have, 250mls will do 4-6 RGV pipes depending how good you are with pressure control and getting it all onto the job rather than wasting it into the atmosphere, I also leave it for two days then bake it with a heat gun.

Fantastic product, would recommend to anyone.

imdying
18th July 2012, 12:56
Yeah, big fan of that paint too :yes:

NAR RG500
18th July 2012, 12:56
10 to 15 percent general purpose thinners and you are away, worked out I have done a total of 15 two stroke pipes with it and various four stroke exhausts also.

F5 Dave
18th July 2012, 14:33
yeah I'm just lazy when it comes to cleaning guns. painted a 2T top end with some specialist Manifold stuff, but only cause I couldn't get PJ1 in right colour. Hope gun is still ok, but for some reason I clean & clean & I hate it.

Asher
18th July 2012, 20:12
So i just realized i have always assumed the bike is unrestricted, i had never really checked.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7116/7595723406_73769ed247_b.jpg
According to the rgv site "German model, opens the pilot air valve between 2k-6k rpm, the pre-ignition and the switching of the main air solenoid valves is the same as the 22d30." with the 22d30 being un-restricted.

All good so far but a little strange since its a jap import.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7119/7595723114_f519824769_b.jpg
The frame number means it should have a 22d30 SPAC and Mikuni 30mm carbs, i checked the carbs but couldnt find any markings saying the size.
What part of the carb do i need to measure?

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7260/7595723628_b8fa377079_b.jpg
Is this a restrictor on the exhaust?

I have never been above 190kmh indicated while the top speed should be around 210kmh. What does that suggest?

Edit: turns out the jap bikes have a short 6th gear that tops out at 181 :( is that the same as the gearbox i got off you Imdying? or are all of the gears slightly shorter?

Editx2: inlet for the carb looked to be around 30mm with the oulet 36mm
Sounds like my wish list is growing

Asher
21st July 2012, 15:40
Did some more work on the bike today.
Burned some rubbish and threw the expansion cambers on top to de-coke them:
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8017/7613138314_b948e9e660_c.jpg
Seemed to work and quite a bit of carbon came out. :niceone:

Stripped the bike down further and started cleaning some of the oil off it:
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8149/7613137654_2f46560ff4_c.jpg

But i found an un registered rgv on trademe and if i find it has quite a few parts i want i might make an offer on it

ducatilover
21st July 2012, 16:53
I like where this is going :niceone: Neat bike

Asher
22nd July 2012, 20:13
So i brought another RGV today with all the parts ive been looking for to de-restrict the one i already have.
So this build thread will start picking up as i will be wanting to get back on the road asap.

Asher
22nd July 2012, 20:45
So if any one is looking for some rgv parts i should have a lot of parts im looking to get rid of.

ducatilover
22nd July 2012, 21:25
What kind of parts? I love parts :niceone:

gammaguy
22nd July 2012, 21:35
open air workshops rule:niceone:

Asher
22nd July 2012, 21:35
What kind of parts? I love parts :niceone:

Everything, although i do need to check what i would want to keep.
It does have some butchered fairings that someone might want for a bucket that someone can have for free

F5 Dave
22nd July 2012, 21:46
Ahh, its a P model, I l have one of those SWs on my 500.

Asher
22nd July 2012, 22:08
The old rgv has a braced sw but the new one has a banana sw that ive been wanting

F5 Dave
22nd July 2012, 22:19
They ditched the Banana for the later braced one as its lighter & stronger. i prefer the look, but the Banana is a classic. A mate is grafting one to his RZ500, but my arm is lighter for sure.

Asher
23rd July 2012, 20:25
So ive ended up buying another RGV for parts.
It comes with everything that i have been looking for:
Banana swing arm
34mm carbs
Braided brake lines
Unrestricted SAPC
Good condition brakes and OEM discs
Near new tyres
Near new chain and sprokets
Full 210kmh gearbox
Near new Vertex pistons
Apparently the heads have been modded to fit O rings
Modded power valves
After market chambers
SP rear shock

I will post a pic of it tomorrow

I also have decided how i will paint the bike:
http://www.bikefairings.com.au/nevergofullretard/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/800x600/545ad68c208081099621fe094dd98f4e/r/g/rgv250-matt-black.jpg
I have a friend who will be able to spray it and another friend has a vinyl cutter to do the graphics.
I also plan to take the covering off my pillion seat and fiberglass over it and get it painted to match making the back of my bike look a lot tidier while still keeping the storage space under it.

Again if any wants the fairings off it they are welcome to the them.

Drew
23rd July 2012, 20:28
Please PM me with what you would take for the front subframe, clocks, and headlight off the spare?

Asher
23rd July 2012, 20:32
Please PM me with what you would take for the front subframe, clocks, and headlight off the spare?

I have no idea, give me a few days and i will send you some pics and you can make an offer.

Asher
24th July 2012, 20:08
Picked up this off trademe this afternoon:
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8288/7635579174_de88283c84_b.jpg
Its an ex-race bike but im not too sure about its history.
Spent the whole day looking forward to picking it up, it started and idled fine, took off up the road but it lacking power......
Got about a km down the road and loose all power........ :(
Noticed the head light was very dim and the bike would cut out whenever i would use anything that required power (indicators, brakes etc).
Figured the battery is stuffed as the bike has been sitting for awhile.

Eventually had to get my mate to come pick up:
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8017/7635578812_01aa4857fd_c.jpg

I will chuck my other battery in it tomorrow the check that that is the problem but im not too bothered as i was planning on using all of the electrics out of my other bike anyway.

ducatilover
25th July 2012, 09:40
That's a bloody cool parts bike, how much did you pay for it?
This thread makes me want a 2T

awesker
25th July 2012, 12:47
Nice thread mate, Im in the middle of restoring my old VJ21. As for de-coking your chambers check out rgv250.co.uk, they're a wealth of knowledge. Im getting my expansion chambers gutted at the moment cause all the baffling has rotted to pieces. Heres the de-coke method Ill try when I get them back:

"Re: the caustic soda:
plug your chambers at the rear with potatoes - sounds daft, but works great and doesn't leave a mark
pour in half a container of industrial sodium hydroxide into each chamber, with the potatoe plugged end pointing vertically downwards- i.e. pour the stuff in the top and lean the chambers up against something.
Fill the chambers with water and stand well clear. Dependant on how much caustic soda you use, the chambers may get quite warm or hot.

Once they've finished bubbling away and cleaning themselves, pull the potatoes off, drain the chambers, flush them out and then QUICKLY dry them ASAP to prevent corrison. Once you've got them almost dry, fit them to the bike and warm it up to heat the chambers properly and ensure they're 100% water free."

From this thread: http://www.rgv250.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/7431-carbon-build-up-gunk-inside-expansion-chambers/

If you're going this far on your build may I suggest you go a little bit further and recondition your calipers. Not sure about yours but my rubber brake lines were in need of replacement and there was solidified filth under the pistons in the calipers.

Heres my rebuild thread if youre interested, though its in need of an update: http://rgv250luckystrike.wordpress.com/

And heres a guys blog on reconditioning your calipers: http://rgvtrackbike.wordpress.com/2012/04/13/brake-caliper-clean-and-rebuild/
and
http://rgvtrackbike.wordpress.com/2012/04/29/brake-caliper-clean-and-rebuild-part-2/

Look forward to seeing your progress!

imdying
25th July 2012, 14:18
If you give me all the calipers you have I'll build up the best set I can from them.

onearmedbandit
25th July 2012, 18:29
Heres my rebuild thread if youre interested, though its in need of an update: http://rgv250luckystrike.wordpress.com/



Love the Lucky Strike scheme, same pics I used to base my bike on too.

Asher
25th July 2012, 18:29
That's a bloody cool parts bike, how much did you pay for it?
This thread makes me want a 2T
I paid $1800 for it, quite pleased with the price.


Nice thread mate, Im in the middle of restoring my old VJ21. As for de-coking your chambers check out rgv250.co.uk, they're a wealth of knowledge. Im getting my expansion chambers gutted at the moment cause all the baffling has rotted to pieces. Heres the de-coke method Ill try when I get them back:

"Re: the caustic soda:
plug your chambers at the rear with potatoes - sounds daft, but works great and doesn't leave a mark
pour in half a container of industrial sodium hydroxide into each chamber, with the potatoe plugged end pointing vertically downwards- i.e. pour the stuff in the top and lean the chambers up against something.
Fill the chambers with water and stand well clear. Dependant on how much caustic soda you use, the chambers may get quite warm or hot.

Once they've finished bubbling away and cleaning themselves, pull the potatoes off, drain the chambers, flush them out and then QUICKLY dry them ASAP to prevent corrison. Once you've got them almost dry, fit them to the bike and warm it up to heat the chambers properly and ensure they're 100% water free."

From this thread: http://www.rgv250.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/7431-carbon-build-up-gunk-inside-expansion-chambers/

If you're going this far on your build may I suggest you go a little bit further and recondition your calipers. Not sure about yours but my rubber brake lines were in need of replacement and there was solidified filth under the pistons in the calipers.

Heres my rebuild thread if youre interested, though its in need of an update: http://rgv250luckystrike.wordpress.com/

And heres a guys blog on reconditioning your calipers: http://rgvtrackbike.wordpress.com/2012/04/13/brake-caliper-clean-and-rebuild/
and
http://rgvtrackbike.wordpress.com/2012/04/29/brake-caliper-clean-and-rebuild-part-2/

Look forward to seeing your progress!
Thanks for the advice, i have some draino (which has caustic soda) laying around.
The new bike comes with braided brake lines.


If you give me all the calipers you have I'll build up the best set I can from them.

Thanks but i think the new ones are better than the old ones in pretty much every way. I will strip them down and check them anyway.



Turns out the battery was reason the bike was cutting out. I put my other one in and headed out to test it, i got about 1km down the road and turn off down a side and start feeding it some throttle..... BANG....... *oh fuck*........
Look back in my mirror and see my chain laying on the road. So i had a relieved yet annoyed long walk back home.

Asher
25th July 2012, 19:12
Aw man, just went to the garage to take to yoke off my other bike to start polishing and theres a big puddle of oil under the new bike and see that its broken part of the cover where the sprocket is :angry2::weep::mad:

Fast Eddie
25th July 2012, 21:02
hehe bad luck.. breaking a chain wouldn't be pretty eh.

least u should have a bunch of parts to make a good bike out of them all!

Drew
26th July 2012, 08:18
Aw man, just went to the garage to take to yoke off my other bike to start polishing and theres a big puddle of oil under the new bike and see that its broken part of the cover where the sprocket is :angry2::weep::mad:
Count yourself lucky. Read through some RGV forums and check out how much damage a snapping chain CAN cause on one. Shattered carbs, large chunks of frame castings removed, legs with holes.

Asher
26th July 2012, 10:25
it could have done more damage but it was too dark to have a good look last night. I wasnt accelerating too hard when it happened luckily but I will take the side fairings off tonight and have a look and start stripping it down this weekend.

Drew
26th July 2012, 11:29
Fingers crossed then.

theflyingkiwi
26th July 2012, 17:50
Iv lost my chain going down the long puke straight on my rgv, no damage thank god!!

Drew
26th July 2012, 18:33
Iv lost my chain going down the long puke straight on my rgv, no damage thank god!!

Faster you're going, the better. High rear sprocket speed helps drag the chain through and minimise the 'flick' of the end coming around the front sprocket.

If it had happened just getting on the gas out of the hair pin, it likely would have done much much more damage.

Asher
26th July 2012, 19:36
This is the damage:
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8294/7648731412_e0e5b5211d_b.jpg
Not sure if the cover for the oil pump was always missing or got torn off.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8026/7648730382_ba17a87e1a_b.jpg
Figured it was about time i finally got a tool kit.

Removed all the fairings, going to get the engine out next.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8159/7648729716_c334f4edd8_c.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8288/7648730024_38966dff2e_b.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7130/7648730700_99bdb56dc4_b.jpg


Found why the bike had such loud induction:
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8017/7648731106_9158c49936_b.jpg
It also had no air filters and wasnt attached to the carbs properly.

Also getting there with polishing the yoke:
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8159/7648729340_e180334ecf_c.jpg

ducatilover
26th July 2012, 20:01
Bugger dude! Looks like the oil pump cover wasn't in there anyway, no snapped bolts in there? Mind you, I have the worst eyes in the world.

The airbox is rather...custom :lol:

The remote reservoirs on the front brakes are pretty trick, any idea what thread size they are? I'll be interested in buying one if you're willing to let one go. If you're willing to split the whole bike I may be interested in a banana swing arm (depending on measurements) :2thumbsup

Asher
26th July 2012, 20:16
The remote reservoirs on the front brakes are pretty trick, any idea what thread size they are? I'll be interested in buying one if you're willing to let one go. If you're willing to split the whole bike I may be interested in a banana swing arm (depending on measurements) :2thumbsup

If i understand you right the brake reservoir screws onto the yoke with a 6mm bolt.

The (what i thought was) unusual thing about the brake set up is that there is no master cylinder, both brake lines attach to the back of the brake lever.

Im putting the banana arm onto my road bike.

ducatilover
26th July 2012, 20:20
If i understand you right the brake reservoir screws onto the yoke with a 6mm bolt.

The (what i thought was) unusual thing about the brake set up is that there is no master cylinder, both brake lines attach to the back of the brake lever.

Im putting the banana arm onto my road bike.
Interested in parting with a brake master/lever and reservoir? ;) Bummer, do like those banana arms, the 600 is begging for a pretty swinger :oi-grr:

Asher
26th July 2012, 20:22
I would be, i will start parting out the bike in a wee while, just want to get close to finishing the build before i do so i dont sell something i shouldn't have.

tigertim20
26th July 2012, 20:57
Interested in parting with a brake master/lever and reservoir? ;) Bummer, do like those banana arms, the 600 is begging for a pretty swinger :oi-grr:

what became of usung that cbr1k swinger? Hayd3n still has it, plus, I have the shock that goes with is in my garage cos i forgot to give ot back to him after intending to use ot for something.

ducatilover
26th July 2012, 22:23
what became of usung that cbr1k swinger? Hayd3n still has it, plus, I have the shock that goes with is in my garage cos i forgot to give ot back to him after intending to use ot for something.
Was going to need too much taken off across the pivot and was 60mm too long... measurements on the shock would be nice though ;)

Sorry for the highjack Asher

imdying
27th July 2012, 13:07
Do you need an unmolested airbox?

Asher
27th July 2012, 19:55
No, unless there are different sized boxes to match the different carb sizes

Asher
27th July 2012, 21:29
Just went out and manage to work out the puzzle of taking off the swing arm.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8019/7655304346_79712f0c18_c.jpg
Really need to start referring to manual more often.

speights_bud
27th July 2012, 21:31
It's a Thai firm, run by a couple of Brits.

Was trying to find out where in Thailand the factory might be, planning a trip over that way early next year...

Asher
28th July 2012, 09:29
Sattahip District, Chonburi.

speights_bud
28th July 2012, 09:54
Nice, might look em up :) probably some dodgy part of town...

Asher
28th July 2012, 10:16
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8430/7658738492_1c3644304c_b.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7268/7658738026_d2feaaec47_b.jpg

Started cleaning the frame and came across what i hoped would be ok; the lower shock mount.
Its a common problem on RGV's and if you own one you should really keep an eye out for cracks in this area.

I will take it into town today to get welded and have the other bike to strip down today too.

Fast Eddie
28th July 2012, 10:41
naw guts, i was checkin all that on the ape too while frame n swing arm is bare.. looks good but italian welds are messy! balls of snot and splatter everywhere..

I noticed I have what look like tiny hairline cracks on the crank cases tho (of both motors, got 2 now).. is that normal ish anyone know? no proper cracks/leaks or anything just look like hair line marks.
Blade has it too on the block..

Asher
28th July 2012, 11:26
Its really hard to tell the difference between mold marks and cracks, sure its not just that?

Anyone willing to take a guess at what chambers i have, they have no markings on them...
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7260/7659032292_037d30c8f6_b.jpg


http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7131/7659031532_e0419d4abc_b.jpg


http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8150/7659031900_3bb5a0a6ec_b.jpg

Fast Eddie
28th July 2012, 16:23
Its really hard to tell the difference between mold marks and cracks, sure its not just that?

mould marks I'm guessing? hmm could be.. they look a bit random but I wouldn't know the difference but yea I thought since they were on 3 engines I have now that it might be common and no cause for concern.

no leaks etc

Asher
28th July 2012, 18:59
Has been a busy day working on the bikes.

Took the frame to get welded back up as well as the oem exhaust with the broken mount and the oil reservoir mount on the sub frame.
Hopefully it will be ready tomorrow to pick up.

I paint stripped the exhausts and are ready to be painted.

Pulled the motor out of the new bike:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7265/7660484586_17d0ebd089_c.jpg

Found a crack on the rear engine mount:
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8019/7660518710_d0f1710cce_c.jpg

Finally got a good look at the damage from the chain breaking:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7259/7660490694_5f60134e5d_c.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8148/7660492948_c7c3d3b165_c.jpg

Looks like its pushed the gear shaft down and the crank casing tried to go with it.
I will have to put that gearbox into one of the other engines.

I was planning on using the disc off the new bike but noticed they had a bit of play in them, the rivets were a little loose. Is this normal or should they be rigid?
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8150/7660474194_92fce8ab7d_c.jpg

This is were i got to before i came in for dinner:
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8154/7660474478_15f50c5db3_c.jpg

As soon as i get the frame back from being welded i will be almost ready to start building it back up.

Also what are the better tyres; Pilot powers or battlax's?

Asher
29th July 2012, 11:24
This morning i have stripped down the sub frame and washed it and the swing arm.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8428/7664963260_78082d23c2_c.jpg

Im going to head to pitlane soon to get them to check out the front discs and then i will start fiberglassing up the seat cowl and buy some paint for the exhausts, silencers and a few other bits.

Does anyone know what the better SAPC unit is: 22D20 or 22D00?

Fast Eddie
29th July 2012, 11:33
1. 22d10... used in the RGV250 SP. Has a bit more pre-ignition than the others and a different switching for the two solenoid valves.

2. 22d30... This box only opens the pilot air valve between 500-2000 rpm, and is the most common un-restricted SAPC box available.

3. 22d60... restricted box (who cares what it does, only provides 45bhp).

4. 22d90... German market box (anti pollution laws), but it's comparable to the 23d00, but the switching of the pilot air system stop in "neutral", 5th, and 6th gears.

5. 23d00... another German model, opens the pilot air valve between 2k-6k rpm, the pre-ignition and the switching of the main air solenoid valves is the same as the 22d30.

6. 23d70... Aprilia ignition box. It was derived from the 23d10, but they changed the ignition timing to be slightly retarded compared to the race-kit box, and modified the opening times of the power-valves. It has 4 degrees of pre-ignition, but with the 5 degree ignition advancer kit (FZR400 woodruff key) it would produce almost the same advance curve as the 23d10. NOTE: Having now run the box back to back with a 22D30 on the dyno
(Jan 05) no difference could be found. I wonder if the Aprilia "tweaks" are just urban myth?

7. 23d10... Suzuki race-kit ignition box which superseded the original 22d50 Has 10-14 degrees pre-ignition and a different valve control. Normally the valves are opened in two steps, whereas the 23d10 opens them in a smooth continuous manner. The switching of the solenoid valves is the same as the 22d10.


8. 23d60 Another Kit box, replacing the 23d10. If you use your bike on the road do not fit a kit one, all the benefit is at the top end so you will not use it on the road. Also they are designed to run high octane fuel so you will get detonation problems running a standard engine on pump fuel. The 60 has slightly less top end but a bigger mid range as the curves are slightly different. They all control the air solenoids differently to the road boxes so need big jetting changes to run. They also all open the exhaust vales gradually and not in steps as per the road box.

Fast Eddie
29th July 2012, 11:34
that didnt have the number u posted actually.. this one has one of them I think...

The 5 jap wet clutch bikes are the Rgv250 L,M,N,P and R.

Rgv250 L Standard gearbox,22d00 sac unit, Mikuni 32mm carbs,45hp.Frame number VJ22A-100056~

Rgv250 M Standard gearbox,22d60 sapc unit, Mikuni 30mm carbs,45hp.Frame number VJ22A-108074~

Rgv250 N Standard gearbox,22d60 sapc unit, Mikuni 30mm carbs,45hp.Frame number VJ22A-114635~

Rgv250 P Standard gearbox,23d30 sapc unit, Mikuni 30mm carbs,45hp.Frame number VJ22A-120119~

Rgv250 R Standard gearbox,23d30 sapc unit, Mikuni 30mm carbs,40hp.Frame number ?

Fast Eddie
29th July 2012, 11:35
Rgv250 FL Close ratio gearbox,22d20 sapc unit, Miukuni 34mm carbs and produce's 45hp.Frame number VJ22A-100066~
Rgv250 L Standard gearbox,22d00 sac unit, Mikuni 32mm carbs,45hp.Frame number VJ22A-100056~

couple differences so I guess depends what the bike is gonna be like when u build it? one sapc is used on a bike with diff carbs and gear box..

imdying
29th July 2012, 15:20
Use the 22D30, or a Zeel box, or if you're using aftermarket chambers, possibly an RS250 SAPC (although only if you can get one free).

Don't worry about the cracks, they all have them. Check the rear set mounts too, make sure they're not bent inwards.

Asher
29th July 2012, 16:26
So the 22d30 and rs250 sapc are the only TRUE unrestricted ones

Drew
29th July 2012, 17:43
So the 22d30 and rs250 sapc are the only TRUE unrestricted ones

Looking at all the info, that question is too simplified to be answered properly.

Here's the bottom line. You can get someone to design and make a set of chambers, port it properly, and really get the thing to breath, and achieve closer to 65 horses. That would be unrestricted. Just, not reliable for a road bike.

Asher
29th July 2012, 18:30
Ah, when i was reading it i was looking at the 23D00 not the 22D00, looking like i might need to get my hands on a 22D30 then.

I got a bit done today. I made put the wheels and swing arm back on the new frame so its now a rolling body and can move it out of the way.
I starting putting back all the electrics that bolt onto the subframe.
The painted silencers are hanging in the garage drying, i used a gloss black engine enamel paint that should be good for 120C which i hope is enough.
I got some high temp paint to do the chambers with also.

I made a start of the seat cowl:
I took off the cover and had a big battle trying to get a rusted bolt out. I had to drill it out eventually and put a nut in its place:

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7276/7666762764_6dd1f5e225_c.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8163/7666733520_17e7486d62_c.jpg

Then i stapled the sheet of fiberglass to the base of the seat and used the foam as the mold:
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8145/7666767336_bfa964129e_c.jpg

I left it dry overnight and will put another layer on it tomorrow.

Tonight i might make a start on pulling the clutch and gearbox out of the engine i just damage, or not, im feeling quite tired tonight.

Asher
29th July 2012, 22:28
Started to strip the engines downs to swap parts and came across this nice surprise:
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8154/7667628038_803436b444_c.jpg
Carbon reeds.

Can anyone tell me how the intake manifolds are meant to be set up.
The ones i have have been cut and blocked:
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8019/7667630788_9734237397_c.jpg

The other ones loop back to itself:
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8292/7667633152_e79c3128f2_c.jpg

Which way is right?

This is where i left them for the night:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7280/7667640516_f3ddb1cd6c_c.jpg

Drew
30th July 2012, 07:36
I don't recall rgv's running single ring slugs, I'm wondering if coupled with the carbon reeds if you're not holding an ex race motor.

Also, you need to talk to someone who actually knows his shut with two strokes before you go plumbing those hoses (which I think are just emission shit that you don't want anyway) back up.

Carbon reeds chucked in a standard motor, are probably not gonna make it better. Cases and ports need altered and timing is crucial to avoid flutter.

This is all second hand from a guy who does know his suit. Pm TZ350 on here and do it right or you'll end up with a very pretty melted heal of shit.

Asher
30th July 2012, 08:28
The motor that in getting all the parts out of is from a race bike. I will check it for porting, is it the intake or exhaust that is usually modified.

Drew
30th July 2012, 09:55
The motor that in getting all the parts out of is from a race bike. I will check it for porting, is it the intake or exhaust that is usually modified.

Both, check for grind marks around all the port holes. If there are any then ya need so
Done to throw a dgree wheel on there and look at the timing of them.

Also, do you still have the head and base gaskets that came off the motor? Ya need to know if the whole barrel was lifted or lowered too.

Everything is critical to a good tune, and reliability.

Drew
30th July 2012, 09:57
Someone with a degree wheel.

Stupid fuckin iPhone!

imdying
30th July 2012, 11:13
Ok the SIPC hoses you'll want to replace if it's a road bike; they go up around the headstock and back. The plumbing is in the manual.

The SAPC doesn't matter; if you run Tyga pipes the PV curve won't be optimal anyway, if not use the 22D30. Use OEM reeds if you have them.

Drew
30th July 2012, 12:12
Ok the SIPC hoses you'll want to replace if it's a road bike; they go up around the headstock and back.

Oh, someone who knows what those are. Share the wealth, what's the guts?

Fast Eddie
30th July 2012, 12:23
Oh, someone who knows what those are. Share the wealth, what's the guts?

i have them on my rs250.. just seem to be a couple of really long hoses that hook the 2 intake manifolds together eh? is that right imdying?
pretty sure mine ran just had hoses going from one intake manifold to the other x 2. thats how i hooked it back up anyway haha.
no idea what they are for.. I thought some sort of balancing/vacuum

Drew
30th July 2012, 13:03
i have them on my rs250.. just seem to be a couple of really long hoses that hook the 2 intake manifolds together eh? is that right imdying?
pretty sure mine ran just had hoses going from one intake manifold to the other x 2. thats how i hooked it back up anyway haha.
no idea what they are for.. I thought some sort of balancing/vacuum

I think they are meant to go back to the same side they come from. A two stroke twin should never have an open avenue between the carbs or cases, or chambers for that matter. They must be tuned as two singles or ya can't get it right for either.

imdying
30th July 2012, 13:12
Yeah Drew, they're basically 'boost bottles' which you've probably come across on all sorts of crap. Gives the intake tract a little volume to push back and forth in. On a top end only bike, you remove them, on a road bike, you leave them in place. I've seen back to back runs with them changed, and there's not much in it.

They plumb back to the same inlet manifold, they do not cross between cylinders. The length is somewhat important, 735mm or something... I can measure some, but would need to dig them out (my bike doesn't have them, or even a place to connect them to).

The plumbing for them is in the manual, chapter 8, section 11.

Asher
30th July 2012, 15:11
Thanks that's what I needed to know, I will get some rubber hoses to replace them.
I thought they were for balancing the carbs too.
Why are oem reeds better than carbon? I have both but figured carbon ones couldn't hurt.
I saved the base gaskets which is apparently 1.4mm and the heads use o rings.
I plan to use the engine I got from imdying the cylinders from my road bike and the carbs, heads and gearbox from the race bike.

imdying
30th July 2012, 16:05
Because they wear out faster and don't make the bike go faster. On a street bike they'll potentially rob some mid range. That's the word from the old hands that have tried them all, not my personal first hand experience. Give OneArmedBandit a yell, he has a mate who's looking for an RGV conrod, if you can help him out. Just check the squish carefully when you put it together.

Drew
30th July 2012, 17:46
Just check the squish carefully when you put it together.And make sure you do it north, south, east, and west when you do. I've got a fucked bucket motor with a bent rod here that says don't cut corners.

Fast Eddie
30th July 2012, 19:59
cheers better re plumb mine. im sure they were crossed over when i got the bike and disassembled it to. labelled and took photos etc. havent run bike yet. need to figure out how to make my own ign leads from coils to new plug caps I bought

Drew
30th July 2012, 20:02
cheers better re plumb mine. im sure they were crossed over when i got the bike and disassembled it to. labelled and took photos etc. havent run bike yet. need to figure out how to make my own ign leads from coils to new plug caps I boughtIf the coils had sealed in leads, and they've been pulled out. Forget it and buy some after market coils. They will never work properly if you try and glue leads back into them.

Fast Eddie
30th July 2012, 20:37
If the coils had sealed in leads, and they've been pulled out. Forget it and buy some after market coils. They will never work properly if you try and glue leads back into them.

yip they have sealed in leads. leads are still sealed in haven't touched originals. Just bought some sweet NGK "better" caps and would like to use them. figure I just cut old plug caps off and try attach these somehow..

bet aftermarket coils will be pricey eh?

Drew
30th July 2012, 22:02
bet aftermarket coils will be pricey eh?Na, got a mate who got some for his GSX, they were about $300. He said it made a huge difference though.

On a two stroke a real clean, consistant spark is important.

Having said that, the caps screw onto the leads. Unscrew the old critters, chop ten or fifteen mm off the lead to get a nice clean bit of copper to screw into.

Asher
30th July 2012, 22:04
Started the swap of engine parts tonight.
Who says crescents are bad:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7255/7675588854_6d6dbbdd8d_c.jpg

I got the clutches and gearboxes out:
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8009/7675595596_f00961a5fe_c.jpg

Can anyone tell me where these are supposed to go? They are no doubt import little things:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7264/7675599720_066c1e8c5d_c.jpg

Drew
30th July 2012, 22:06
For sale, two possibly fucked clutch baskets and hubs.

Starting to think my usual. Some people should not be allowed to touch tools.

Asher
30th July 2012, 23:25
Didnt seem to cause any damage to the clutch, it actually seemed to fit into the grooves and work really well.

I managed to figure out where that spring and pin went, getting it to stay where it should be while fitting back the gearbox was a whole other issues i would rather forget about, but the gearbox and clutch are back in:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7251/7675903826_55577c0faa_c.jpg

Tomorrow i plan to finish the seat cowl, swap the piston and fit the cylinders and have something that looks similar to a complete engine.

imdying
31st July 2012, 09:24
Clutch hub tools are cheap cheap cheap. I have one for a dry clutch, but not the wet, although I could be tempted into buying one. I do have the flywheel holder and puller before you rape that too :lol:

Coils are cheap, get them from Sean. Lead is cheap, get it anywhere (e.g. Butlers Stanmore). Changing the wire is easy, take you ten minutes.

Fast Eddie
31st July 2012, 11:02
Coils are cheap, get them from Sean. Lead is cheap, get it anywhere (e.g. Butlers Stanmore). Changing the wire is easy, take you ten minutes.
Cheers :)
See if I can manage it without buying new coils for now. don't even have enough to buy clip ons and get front forks serviced :S

damn trailer and sidecar builds have taken over

imdying
31st July 2012, 11:29
Cheers :)
See if I can manage it without buying new coils for now. don't even have enough to buy clip ons and get front forks serviced :S

Cut the lead length ways, down into the coil as far as you can. That will weaken it. Then heat it up a little with a heat gun. Then just twist it out. If it leaves anything behind, then scrape that out. You should see a small self tapping stud inside the coil (which you'll find looks much the same as inside your new plug caps). Then wind it in the coil, mount the coil, double check your length, and trim the lead to suit. Then install your cap and you should be good to go. Will take you about 10 minutes all up, assuming you've had some practice at mounting that top coil hahaahah.

I had to replace the ones in my new coils from Sean, but I'm the only one that has bitched about length, probably because my heads are 8mm further away from the crank than anybody elses :lol:

Drew
31st July 2012, 11:50
Cut the lead length ways, down into the coil as far as you can. That will weaken it. Then heat it up a little with a heat gun. Then just twist it out. If it leaves anything behind, then scrape that out. You should see a small self tapping stud inside the coil (which you'll find looks much the same as inside your new plug caps). Then wind it in the coil, mount the coil, double check your length, and trim the lead to suit. Then install your cap and you should be good to go. Will take you about 10 minutes all up, assuming you've had some practice at mounting that top coil hahaahah.

I had to replace the ones in my new coils from Sean, but I'm the only one that has bitched about length, probably because my heads are 8mm further away from the crank than anybody elses :lol:

Well fuck a doodle doo. I didn't realise they were threaded and glued in there, is this the same on the old school coils from other stuff too? My bucket could benefit from some new HT leads.

imdying
31st July 2012, 12:10
Every one I've chopped up has been like that, but I wouldn't know about every model. Can confirm that RGV, VFR400 and earlier GSXRs are like that though.

Asher
1st August 2012, 21:07
Have the engine pretty much complete, i painted a few bits so once they are dry they will go on.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8154/7689979494_6c912ca7dd_c.jpg

I havent got the frame back from being welded up yet but once i do i will get it back together quickly.

Asher
2nd August 2012, 22:35
Got the frame back today, got home a bit late so wasnt able to do much other than put the swing arm on:
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8165/7697082326_14ac60073d_c.jpg

Hopefully get some more done tomorrow.

Asher
3rd August 2012, 21:20
The engine as it sits:
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8153/7703186306_3b3538e8ab_c.jpg
Although i am having trouble getting those little spigots out of the heads.

The bikes i have got up to:
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8426/7703183648_665dabd802_c.jpg

Hope to get the engine in on Saturday.

tigertim20
4th August 2012, 18:33
looking good so far, keep up the updates and pics!

Fast Eddie
4th August 2012, 18:56
the water spigots? shit they must rust out on all of them.

I used a bench vice, crushed them in the vice then twisted the head around and mine came out.. tricky though for a while I didn't think they were gonna give.

mine were pretty bad though!

Fast Eddie
4th August 2012, 18:57
wtf is a hammer doing near those bikes lol!

Drew
4th August 2012, 19:03
wtf is a hammer doing near those bikes lol!

Fiver says it was driving the rear axle in.

Asher
4th August 2012, 19:44
the water spigots? shit they must rust out on all of them.

I used a bench vice, crushed them in the vice then twisted the head around and mine came out.. tricky though for a while I didn't think they were gonna give.

mine were pretty bad though!

Turns out they are called dowls and a good way to get them out is putting a drill bit in them then using grips to pull them out so not to crush them.

Asher
5th August 2012, 19:58
Got a fair bit done today.
Got the engine back in, painted the expansion chambers and radiator and got the brakes back on:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7134/7715103008_9e2a203246_c.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7137/7715104362_4a799676fc_c.jpg

I was having trouble bleeding the front brakes, i filled the reservoir, loosened the bleeding screws and pumped the lever but no fluid would come out. Any tips?

ducatilover
5th August 2012, 20:06
Bleed it from all the banjo bolts, top to furthest away first.
If it's like my 600 you may need to move the master cyl around a bit (unbolt it and dance around) and the calipers (mine get an air lock between the pistons.

Either that or you're bleeding them wrong

Fast Eddie
5th August 2012, 20:14
Turns out they are called dowls and a good way to get them out is putting a drill bit in them then using grips to pull them out so not to crush them.

oh might be talking about different things.. crank case dowls, or the water pipes? my water pipes were rusted out. had to replace them.. you would need a f*ckn huge drill to take up the bore of them tho..

my case dowls came in and out relatively easy by themselves.. head to cyl and cyl to crank

Asher
5th August 2012, 20:46
These are what i was talking about, i managed to get them out but they were well stuck in.
http://www.thetuningworks.co.uk/store/images/case%20dowell.jpg

Heres the brake setup:
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8421/7715751056_524e456b54_c.jpg

Its different than my other bike, the master cylinder is at the end of the lever.

Fast Eddie
5th August 2012, 20:54
same setup as my ape and blade.. master cyl with 2 seperate lines to each caliper.

bummer about the bleeding.

can only think there is a major air lock going on and need to bleed that out to get it going. in the garage we used vacuum to suck the brake fluid through and that bleeds it for us.

maybe like ducati lover said, take the master cyl and lever off or take the calipers off and raise them above each other try get gravity to do its thing get something moving around..

good luck lol

Asher
5th August 2012, 21:03
Thanks, i didnt spend much time trying to bleed it so next time i will try and spend a bit more time on it.

ducatilover
5th August 2012, 22:36
I tend to do the loosen the banjo trick often, works a charm for me. Remember to use lots of rags, it's messier than gang sex.

imdying
6th August 2012, 09:17
Have you considered cleaning the bits before reassembling the bike?

Fast Eddie
6th August 2012, 11:15
Have you considered cleaning the bits before reassembling the bike?

hard to keep things clean when your working outside and on the ground hehe..

making good progress tho, should be riding in no time..

my poor aprilia in the shed, neglected.. lonely..

.. but very clean...

ducatilover
6th August 2012, 11:33
Have you considered cleaning the bits before reassembling the bike?

Nothing like assembling a frame, engine and swinger without getting you hands even slightly dirty :D
Anything that comes off my bikes gets cleaned, polished or painted. But, we know I'm a little odd.

bogan
6th August 2012, 11:35
Nothing like assembling a frame, engine and swinger without getting you hands even slightly dirty :D

Fucking eh, assembled the electric in a sleepout, after having all the parts lying on my bed while I CAD'd em up!

ducatilover
6th August 2012, 11:41
Fucking eh, assembled the electric in a sleepout, after having all the parts lying on my bed while I CAD'd em up!

You take the cake there! I'm not allowed to put my bikes inside sadly, I reckon they'd look choice in front of the fire or beside my piano!

imdying
6th August 2012, 14:54
hard to keep things clean when your working outside and on the ground hehe..

making good progress tho, should be riding in no time..

my poor aprilia in the shed, neglected.. lonely..

.. but very clean...Heh, yeah I'm just giving him cheek :D

Mine is going to be my track slut, so clean isn't super high on the priority list, just clean enough that I can see shit failing hahahahaah :D

Tokico monoblocks arrived for it this morning :D Just need to decide which brand of discs...

Drew
6th August 2012, 14:58
Tokico monoblocks arrived for it this morning :D Just need to decide which brand of discs...A tough decision to be sure. Even the best brands, have different quality items available. Let us know what you go with.

imdying
6th August 2012, 15:05
I'm thinking either OEM or EBC Prolite, probably EBC. Price is basically the same, so might as well go for the lightweight ones with the square drive buttons.

Fast Eddie
6th August 2012, 15:10
Heh, yeah I'm just giving him cheek :D

Mine is going to be my track slut, so clean isn't super high on the priority list, just clean enough that I can see shit failing hahahahaah :D

Tokico monoblocks arrived for it this morning :D Just need to decide which brand of discs...
yea i like to keep most of it clean so I can see any cracks or leaks. not as anal as ducati lover tho :) while its apart it got a good clean though. better than it will ever get until its in pieces again

mmm yum, monoblocks :D did you get your forks yet? think last time I asked they hadn't arrived yet.. zxr400 ones or something? sorry can't remember. hazy weekend.

I'm just gonna clean up my Brembos all round :) dunno how good they are but they say brembo on the side and they are gold so all good haha.. nah they seemed sweet when i first bought the bike did a wee stoppy so good enough!

mmm i just need a measley (estimated) 200 nz dollars to finish my bike... pulling the couches apart and feeling under the car seats..

imdying
6th August 2012, 15:53
yea i like to keep most of it clean so I can see any cracks or leaks. not as anal as ducati lover tho :) while its apart it got a good clean though. better than it will ever get until its in pieces again

mmm yum, monoblocks :D did you get your forks yet? think last time I asked they hadn't arrived yet.. zxr400 ones or something? sorry can't remember. hazy weekend.

I'm just gonna clean up my Brembos all round :) dunno how good they are but they say brembo on the side and they are gold so all good haha.. nah they seemed sweet when i first bought the bike did a wee stoppy so good enough!

mmm i just need a measley (estimated) 200 nz dollars to finish my bike... pulling the couches apart and feeling under the car seats..

Yeah, forks arrived, Showas from an 08 ZX6R. Lovely looking, and you can get all the latest hop up crap for them. The calipers are great, so much lighter... no cross bolts or any of that jazz required. The RS250 calipers are fine, the bike weighs bugger all. Nothing wrong with RGV calipers either, same reason... but they won't fit a radial mount fork.

Nice, I'm only short ~$7500 + a paint job and some tyres :crazy:

Asher
8th August 2012, 21:52
Got a bit done on the bike tonight.
Spent some time trying to bleed the front brakes with some success, still heaps of air in the lines but managing to get a bit of fluid out the bleeding screws.
I got the carbs, radiator, hoses and thermostat all hooked up and got the rear subframe on and started on connecting all the wiring. I will probably pull the carbs back out to try and route the loam better as im just creating knots at the moment.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8432/7738835120_8571786f4a_c.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8434/7738839932_43fe75420c_c.jpg

tigertim20
8th August 2012, 21:54
looking good.

re: loom, consult a manual if you can for pictures, manufacturers seem to thread them through in the most awkward fucking manner sometimes!

Asher
11th August 2012, 21:47
Spent the day on the bike and got a fair amount done.
Brakes bled.
Loom wired up.
Carbs in.
Exhausts on.
Dash on.
Powervalves set up.

Last thing i did tonight was put some coolant in it to leave overnight to see if there were any little leaks and straight away there was a puddle forming on the floor :( looked like it was coming out of the right exhaust port so i pulled that chamber off and drained the fluids so i will probably spent most of tomorrow fixing that.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8427/7757841182_a124e9564b_c.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8283/7757839702_1568e275d0_c.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7110/7757839564_fc00169c9b_c.jpg

I had hoped to start it tomorrow but not too sure about that now. I plan to take it to Ruapuna on Saturday for the HAGD so i might have a few late nights this week.

Asher
12th August 2012, 21:57
Im pretty sure i used every swear word in my rather extensive swearword vocabulary today.
I got the water leak sorted out, got the chain on rear and front fairings on then spent about 3 hours trying to sort out the kickstart.
I put premix in the tank and got the oil spigots out ready to start her up and prime the oil pump but the kick start was really tight and wouldnt spring back.
Is this how the kick start springs are set up?:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7112/7764612816_a009359464_z.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8426/7764537080_7fbd304ff2_c.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7249/7764536882_11a84a6930_c.jpg

Asher
13th August 2012, 19:24
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7272/7771945040_1ceb2d5a4a_c.jpg

Turns out the clutch cover was crushing the kickstart causing it to jam so i put the other one on and it was perfect.

ducatilover
13th August 2012, 22:16
Fuck yeah!!!!!! Well done dude

Asher
13th August 2012, 22:41
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8439/7772681678_0b89b6c6a9_c.jpg

After running it for awhile and priming the oil pump i noticed the smoke coming out of the bottom exhaust was whiter than the top one leading me to think there might be a bit of coolant getting in, and when i put then air box i manage to disconnect something so now the indicators and headlight dont work.

One night this week i might get it right up to temp to see if its still blows white smoke and if so pull that cylinder off to check the gasket.

Drew
14th August 2012, 07:15
Are the oil lines also hooked up? I'd say that the oil is just coming through to the cylinders from the pump to create more smoke.

imdying
14th August 2012, 09:46
A tough decision to be sure. Even the best brands, have different quality items available. Let us know what you go with.

Went with EBC... they're in Chch somewhere... btw, just read a post from somebody who said they got their crank rebuild kit from Deet and was happy with the service, FWIW.


Eddie there's a 300 kit for sale at the moment: http://www.rgv250.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/49190-300cc-kit/page__pid__417669#entry417669

Asher
15th August 2012, 10:12
I double checked the base gasket just for a piece of mind.
The bike is all together now but I don't have any pics.
I will put up a bid of it running as soon as I figure out how to do it from my phone
I'm still not sure the oil pump is putting out as much as it should so im running it on abit of premix at the moment.
Hopefully there will be no more issues and it will be sweet for Ruapuna on Sat

imdying
15th August 2012, 12:11
Just keep the clutch covered.

And use the oil pump, the premix might see you seize it.

Asher
15th August 2012, 13:15
The oil pump does work just not as much as I would expect, I might plug a saringe into the oil line to measure the flow

Drew
15th August 2012, 14:43
Doesn't pump fuck all at idle.

imdying
15th August 2012, 15:02
The oil pump does work just not as much as I would expect, I might plug a saringe into the oil line to measure the flowWhen you hold the activating arm in the wide open position, what happens?

That's a good idea, there's instructions in the manual.

Asher
15th August 2012, 15:17
When I primed it I had a tank with premix off to the side and held the cable tight.
The manual says about 5ml at 2000rpm for 2 mins, I didn't think that much warms coming out but maybe I needed to run it longer

Fast Eddie
15th August 2012, 15:19
The oil pump does work just not as much as I would expect, I might plug a saringe into the oil line to measure the flow

edit, just read other comments so your onto it haha.. but still..

get say a 5 litre container, fill it with 5 litres of oil, connect oil line (before pump) to that and let engine run and see how long it runs through 5 litres.


sorry this isnt the exact method, but I know this is how my RS250 manual tells me to check the oil pump flow rate. u fill up X amount of litres into a container and then time how long it takes to drain.. or something similar.

def use the oil pump.. once set up they will do a damn good job. Pre mix is a hassle (especially if u plan to use this on the road as well)

my 2 cents..

ill be bringing my RS250 up to chch soon for some play time on the track, ur RGV should be ready by then too, wont make the HAGD this weekend but will do a tues or friday funday out there.
50 bucks for arvo, cheeeaap as chips. should come out for japan vs italy

Fast Eddie
15th August 2012, 15:25
Eddie there's a 300 kit for sale at the moment: http://www.rgv250.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/49190-300cc-kit/page__pid__417669#entry417669

Beaut! cheers mate..

Emailed Sean too, and asked if they still supply them. they used to have heaps

sent that fella on the RGV forums a PM.. see how it goes pricewise.. could start over on the RS250 before I've even finished the 250cc overhaul.. 300cc time :D

imdying
15th August 2012, 15:47
ill be bringing my RS250 up to chch soon for some play time on the track, ur RGV should be ready by then too, wont make the HAGD this weekend but will do a tues or friday funday out there.Sing out when you do, I work 10 minutes from the track :) Who knows when mine will be finished :blink: I know my discs are in country somewhere... probably with our mates at Customs.

Fast Eddie
15th August 2012, 18:13
Sing out when you do, I work 10 minutes from the track :) Who knows when mine will be finished :blink: I know my discs are in country somewhere... probably with our mates at Customs.

Will do!

and mint about location haha, wish i lived that close :) will bring sidecar up to if you fancy a couple laps in the passenger seat :D
you too asher, and anyone else in chch

imdying
15th August 2012, 18:19
Will do!

and mint about location haha, wish i lived that close :) will bring sidecar up to if you fancy a couple laps in the passenger seat :D
you too asher, and anyone else in chch

Actually, if it wouldn't be a total bitch, I wouldn't say no, and I know another nutter who'd probably be keen for a swing :)

onearmedbandit
15th August 2012, 18:27
I'd be keen too, but don't think a one-armed passenger would last long on the back.

Drew
15th August 2012, 18:30
I'd be keen too, but don't think a one-armed passenger would last long on the back.

Hard work on a short chair bro, but you'd be pretty safe on a long outfit I would think.

Asher
15th August 2012, 19:34
I think the proper way to measure the oil flow is with a vacuum gauge or something but i figure filling a syringe with some oil and pluging it into the start of the oil line and that should easily show how much is flowing through and be accurate.
I took it for a 5 min ride tonight, seemed to go well but didnt really get to open her right up but fuck is she loud.
The stock chambers i was using must have had some major baffling in them.
Defiantly be keen to have a blat around the track with you.

Asher
15th August 2012, 21:50
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBXgMQ-8W4U

ducatilover
15th August 2012, 22:10
Do want! :Punk:

gammaguy
15th August 2012, 23:46
heres my 2c

given that none of your settings are known and that it has non standard pipes I would be checking my jetting and oil delivery rate real soon,like before you get anywhere near full throttle for the first time

a 2T can run perfectly well on little or no oil and a lean mixture at small throttle openings,but open up the taps and the requirements change dramatically.

I would enjoy overtaking you down the straight while you are still mobile not sitting on the side of the track with the dollar signs spinning round!

good luck,see you on saturday,keep an eye out for a Yoshimura RG with twice as many cylinders as yours:shifty:

Asher
16th August 2012, 07:09
I expect the fuel and jetting to be ok as im using the pipes, sapc, and carbs out of the bike that was running, but im using the engine i got from imdying that seized from an oil block.
What i will do is replace all the oil lines, if that doesnt work i might just scratch my head some more.

Fast Eddie
16th August 2012, 12:01
Actually, if it wouldn't be a total bitch, I wouldn't say no, and I know another nutter who'd probably be keen for a swing :)
its no prob at all, always keen to take people out :) and bring any othr nutter out too haha. need leathers n helmet tho, but i can prob borrow extra pair

I'd be keen too, but don't think a one-armed passenger would last long on the back.
why don't we try :) i bet it would be hard work. u cud just sit in the tray and dont move, shudnt fall off like that

Fast Eddie
16th August 2012, 12:04
oh yea aiming to be there friday 31st for track play :) racing sunday 2nd at ruapuna

imdying
16th August 2012, 13:42
I expect the fuel and jetting to be ok as im using the pipes, sapc, and carbs out of the bike that was runningTwo strokes need a bit more care than four strokes, you'd be wise to at least consider his words :)


a 2T can run perfectly well on little or no oil and a lean mixture at small throttle openings,but open up the taps and the requirements change dramatically.He's not wrong.

Tell us about your setup (I'm pretty lazy):
- 22D30?
- 34MM carbs?
- Which jets?
- Using the solenoids? (plumbed up as per manual?)
- Any airbox mods? (dump them if you have)
- Which pipes?

The 280/270 jets are probably fine, but there's a few odd carb models so you want to be double checking that stuff at the very least.



I've got a new one piece that needs some love, so I'll bring that Eddie :yes:

Fast Eddie
16th August 2012, 14:11
I've got a new one piece that needs some love, so I'll bring that Eddie :yes:

perfect :) will keep in touch, see you in a couple weeks hehe

tigertim20
16th August 2012, 19:15
nice work! great job done so far

Asher
17th August 2012, 21:44
The bikes all ready for tomorrow.
I put in a different oil pump and it seems to run fine.
I went for a quick blast tonight and it runs great with heaps of power, but will manage to scare children with how loud it is.
I will post plenty of pics from tomorrow and will try and video myself going through the tunnel at full throttle.

gammaguy
18th August 2012, 00:07
Let's hope the weather allows us to play with our toys:baby:

Asher
18th August 2012, 20:48
Had an awesome day today, racing is way harder and scarier than i thought it was.
The bike was good except for one thing; the power valves werent working, just meant i was down in power under 7k rpm.
I will get that sorted out this week.

I wasnt able to get many pics as my camera had a flat battery.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7253/7806818562_0156a031aa_c.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8430/7806817330_eef8ca7531_c.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8436/7806816776_66f9c8dc57_c.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8298/7806814328_c5434bd920_c.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8286/7806816002_161530a0bd_c.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8448/7806815408_2aba9ef3e8_c.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7135/7806813514_68db96e644_c.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8421/7806812852_5b293b6fc7_c.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8439/7806812296_5a43970c2b_c.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8297/7806811264_56aff26009_c.jpg

gammaguy
18th August 2012, 23:02
Yeah I had a great day out too.

Glad I took the TDR as the RG want in the mood to play today so I only did one session on it.

Lots of nice 2T machinery out there too:Punk:

Fast Eddie
19th August 2012, 10:45
very cool,

bummer about the power valves bro, didn't ya set em up when u put it back together? and do the servo check by earthing that spare wire (its how it gets done on the RS anyway)

at least the valves were stuck open and not closed I guess? or you'd prob make no power hehe..

whos wee NSR? i like them, cool shape - almost bought one over the Aprilia RS, but was more expensive and older.

can get a sweet 300cc kit for those NSRs too

Asher
19th August 2012, 12:47
I think i had them set up right but the servo stopped working, not sure why yet. Could be a loose connection, servo's fucked, sapc's fucked, will look into it this week.

Anyone have a 22D30 sapc spare? i could defiantly feel the 22D70 i have start killing the power after 11k rpm.

Or does anyone have the contact detail of a Englishman whose name i think was Paul. I was talking to him yesterday and he said he had 2 spare but i forgot to get his contacts, he was the owner of that #97 RGV in the 8th pic.

The NSR is my mate Joe's bike, i will tell him about the 300cc kit; hes thinking of turning that bike into a racer.

imdying
19th August 2012, 13:39
There's not much to go wrong with the servo - 1 power wire (that the SAPC contros) and it's earth, then 3 wires for the PVPS (position signal), 5v, earth and signal, all which go back to the SAPC. Those are easy to identify on the wiring diagram, and should be easy to continuity test back to the SAPC. I have a spare 22D30, I've only tested it on a bike but never run with it, $150 if you want it (same as I paid a few years ago).

If you power up the 2 wire plug briefly it'll try and rotate the motor; only briefly, you're the feedback loop (instead of the SAPC). If you measure the PVPS, it should be a changing resistance across 5v and signal, as you rotate the pulley by hand.

If the grey wire works correctly, then the wiring is presumably fine.

Fast Eddie
19th August 2012, 14:47
I have a spare working servo if that turns out to be the problem :)

eelracing
20th August 2012, 09:28
Had an awesome day today, racing is way harder and scarier than i thought it was.
The bike was good except for one thing; the power valves werent working, just meant i was down in power under 7k rpm.


More to the point is what the fuck are you doing letting the revs drop under 7k on a race track???...what are you waiting for? Fasteddie to finish his RS???!!! Slap that clutch lever like it's going out of fashion and stop fucking about.


By the way congrats on the build and excellent thread.

Asher
20th August 2012, 09:37
I will get the tank off tonight and test everything, I have a spare servo anyway but cheers.
I could be keen on that sapc imdying, I will message you soon about it.

Out of interest does anyone know of anyone in NZ that does nickal...blah whatever its called replating

Fast Eddie
20th August 2012, 11:28
Nikasil i think its called, yea there is someone in NZ that does it..

I mention Kickaha and he should mosy along and let us know who it is ;)

I'm sure google could tell ya too. congrats on completing the build bro! well done..

Fast Eddie
20th August 2012, 11:29
More to the point is what the fuck are you doing letting the revs drop under 7k on a race track???...what are you waiting for? Fasteddie to finish his RS???!!!

hahah!!

bastard, im nearly done! I'v got a racing sidecar that has been eating my time up too ya know ;)

imdying
20th August 2012, 12:46
I will get the tank off tonight and test everything, I have a spare servo anyway but cheers.
I could be keen on that sapc imdying, I will message you soon about it.

Out of interest does anyone know of anyone in NZ that does nickal...blah whatever its called replating
Sure, also consider buying a Zeeltronic box instead (it comes with all the maps for all the useful SAPCs preloaded).

Don't get it done here, get it done by Sean. He does exchange. He is cheaper iirc. He knows about bridge relieving. He'll make sure it's sized to the replacement pistons.

Bascially, he knows his shit, and gives a crap about a good job. Even if it cost more than local, imho that is worth paying more for.

tigertim20
20th August 2012, 16:50
I will get the tank off tonight and test everything, I have a spare servo anyway but cheers.
I could be keen on that sapc imdying, I will message you soon about it.

Out of interest does anyone know of anyone in NZ that does nickal...blah whatever its called replating

nickasil, and its fucking expensive. potentially cheaper to get second hand parts than to recoat.
are the cylinders removable? just resleeve instead?

Drew
20th August 2012, 17:14
nickasil, and its fucking expensive. potentially cheaper to get second hand parts than to recoat.
are the cylinders removable? just resleeve instead?They don't have a sleeve. Nickasil (not convinced of spelling) is a coating of the aluminium to stop it distorting and melting at higher temperatures.

Sleeving has been done, but it's not ideal as it doesn't cool right or some such similar issue.

Kickaha
20th August 2012, 17:28
nickasil, and its fucking expensive. potentially cheaper to get second hand parts than to recoat.
are the cylinders removable? just resleeve instead?

About $500 per cylinder and way better than sleeving, unless you're a total muppet you should only have to have it done once

http://www.nzcylinders.com/ are the only place in the country that do it and are good to deal with

Asher
20th August 2012, 17:51
Thanks guys, a guy I was talking to on sat had 5 pairs that needed replating, I didn't envy him.
I had thought the zeeltronic boxes required a dyno tune, good that it doesnt

imdying
20th August 2012, 18:49
Screw $500. http://www.thetuningworks.co.uk/assets/Cylinder%20Reconditioning.pdf

Sleeving it will fuck it.

Second hand shit is just that.

The Zeel box would of course benefit from tuning on a dyno, but you can have the same curves as any SAPC to start with.

Kickaha
20th August 2012, 20:14
Screw $500. http://www.thetuningworks.co.uk/assets/Cylinder%20Reconditioning.pdf

Have guys you know or on the RGV forums had stuff done there? I wouldn't use any Nicasil plater without some kind of reccomendation

wes76
20th August 2012, 20:19
I Agree with imdying...get tht shit replated by sean!!! Seems you are gettn everything sorted...good work..keep it up. :2thumbsup
Shane.

Asher
20th August 2012, 20:28
Have guys you know or on the RGV forums had stuff done there? I wouldn't use any Nicasil plater without some kind of reccomendation

I have only brought new stuff off them but what i have heard from others is Sean is the guy to go to.

wes76
20th August 2012, 20:51
He sure is, I have brought a bit of stuff off him...never had any hassels. Next thing im buying of them is a ECU pcdi20v....mmmmmm

wes76
20th August 2012, 20:57
Most of my gears has been brought from overseas, good old nz is just way to dear & behind the times. Id go for the exchange replate kit which is 2 replated cylinders + the vertex pistons etc (twin ring for road of course)

speights_bud
20th August 2012, 21:52
I will get the tank off tonight and test everything, I have a spare servo anyway but cheers.
I could be keen on that sapc imdying, I will message you soon about it.

Out of interest does anyone know of anyone in NZ that does nickal...blah whatever its called replating

Apparently someone down south does them for about $500-$600 to do a NSR Barrel

Asher
20th August 2012, 22:18
:facepalm:

Had the sapc plugs mixed up.

Was quite strange, when i turned the key on the actuator turned 180 and the grey wire test did nothing.
Once i swapped the plugs around nothing happened when i turned the key on and the power valved opened and closed :niceone:

Cant wait for the roads to dry to see what difference it makes.

imdying
22nd August 2012, 15:01
Have guys you know or on the RGV forums had stuff done there? I wouldn't use any Nicasil plater without some kind of reccomendationYeah, plenty have been done, including my own. A few have been tried over the years by the crew, and now it's all handled by one vendor. Sean also offers bridge and detonation damage repairs, plus water spigot replacement and even cleaning and disassembly for the lazy.

imdying
22nd August 2012, 15:02
Was quite strange, when i turned the key on the actuator turned 180 and the grey wire test did nothing.
Once i swapped the plugs around nothing happened when i turned the key on and the power valved opened and closed :niceone:Would be easy to figure out why from the wiring diagram :)

Fast Eddie
22nd August 2012, 15:09
Cant wait for the roads to dry to see what difference it makes.

don't stand on ceremony, fire it up n get it wet

ducatilover
22nd August 2012, 23:25
don't stand on ceremony, fire it up n get it wet

Agreed! Even I ride my bikes in the wet (then clean them, lots)

Asher
23rd August 2012, 17:58
Took it for a blast up the hills, bit more power now. Gets the front off the ground without using the clutch :)
Although it stutters under power as if the powervalves arent opening smoothly. Anyone have any ideas?

Fast Eddie
23rd August 2012, 19:06
mm stuttering under power could be a list of things..

the powervalves prob wouldn't make it stutter.. more like just dull the power.

carbs.. jetting.. air/fuel mix.. weak spark etc etc could be causes.

cool that shes running! wheelie without clutch must mean shes making some power hehe

tigertim20
23rd August 2012, 20:57
replace the plugs and go for another ride.
always start with the plugs with issues like this. they can spark fine outside the cylinder, but be absolute shit when in the running bike

Asher
23rd August 2012, 21:01
thanks i will check the plugs and coils.
It only happens under full throttle around 6-8rpm which is why i thought it might be the power valves.

Drew
24th August 2012, 06:43
thanks i will check the plugs and coils.
It only happens under full throttle around 6-8rpm which is why i thought it might be the power valves.How good is the battery that's in it? What you're describing could be weak spark caused when the power valves open and take juice from the ignition.

Asher
24th August 2012, 07:09
The battery is shit, thats seems like a good theory, thanks

Drew
24th August 2012, 08:17
They always run like shit with a bung battery. Seen peoe chase phantom rgv issues for ages to find that it was a simple low voltage prob.

imdying
24th August 2012, 13:02
Yes, a healthy battery is mandatory on RGVs and RS'.

theflyingkiwi
25th August 2012, 16:46
Hi, I have finished my RGV build just got to run it in next weekend and maybe put it on a dyno,

how do you add photos?

Asher
25th August 2012, 22:47
i just upload them to flickr then link them to here with the the "insert image" button

theflyingkiwi
26th August 2012, 11:14
http://www.flickr.com/photos/85799034@N07/7860143786/in/photostream

http://www.flickr.com/photos/85799034@N07/7860144744/in/photostream/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/85799034@N07/7860139510/in/photostream/

theflyingkiwi
26th August 2012, 11:16
has this worked? its not showing up!

imdying
26th August 2012, 12:52
<img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8434/7860143786_945b4c7c1e_z.jpg" />
<img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8425/7860144744_d5cdb1a455_z.jpg" />

ducatilover
26th August 2012, 13:34
Sexual imaging

Oh...my...fuck.
Yes!

Asher
26th August 2012, 18:47
Shes a beauty.

Rode to Akaroa today and the bike was still playing up. It would fart around at revs below 8k then take off.
I replaced the battery and tried another sapc but it hasnt seemed to do anything.
I will try another CDI unit and give the carbs a clean.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7259/7862193282_0325f1ce5c_c.jpg

I also managed to loose my pillion seat somewhere on the way back from Akaroa, anyone have a spare?

eelracing
27th August 2012, 00:05
Shes a beauty.

Rode to Akaroa today and the bike was still playing up. It would fart around at revs below 8k then take off.
I replaced the battery and tried another sapc but it hasnt seemed to do anything.
I will try another CDI unit and give the carbs a clean.




Tell us about your setup (I'm pretty lazy):
- 22D30?
- 34MM carbs?
- Which jets?
- Using the solenoids? (plumbed up as per manual?)
- Any airbox mods? (dump them if you have)
- Which pipes?

The 280/270 jets are probably fine, but there's a few odd carb models so you want to be double checking that stuff at the very least.


If you have no luck with carb clean and cdi swap then it's time to go back a few steps as farting around under 8 thou is too vague a description to go off.
It got you to Akaroa so unless you were redlining it all the way was she able to pull through these revs at quarter,half,full throttle?or was there just a bloody great hole in the power before the PV's opened up? (Thats if they are opening/fully closing...it always pays to check again)
These bikes don't make much below 7000 revs anyway and aftermarket pipes can make them worse on the road.

So if need be post up as per imdying questions above.

Asher
27th August 2012, 07:16
Well accelerating and cruising through the first 4 gears it would stutter a bit before it hits full power and turns into a rocket but for 5 and 6th unless i was in power band i wasnt going anywhere (it was easier to cruise at 100km in 4th than in 6th :blink:)

Ive tried using 22D00 and 22D20
34mm carbs
Not too sure what jets i have in them.
The air solenoids are plumbed up correctly (i think). What symptoms would i have if they werent?
Stock air box
No idea what pipes they are, they arent stock but they have no stamps to say what they are.

eelracing
27th August 2012, 14:12
Well accelerating and cruising through the first 4 gears it would stutter a bit before it hits full power and turns into a rocket but for 5 and 6th unless i was in power band i wasnt going anywhere (it was easier to cruise at 100km in 4th than in 6th :blink:)

Ive tried using 22D00 and 22D20
34mm carbs
Not too sure what jets i have in them.
The air solenoids are plumbed up correctly (i think). What symptoms would i have if they werent?
Stock air box
No idea what pipes they are, they arent stock but they have no stamps to say what they are.


No idea of pipes and jetting? now we're getting somewhere.Any RGV will struggle to pull 5th and 6th under 7000 anyway so not too much of a drama.
Do you have a manual?You do really want to know what main jets you are running in both carbs as a starter.
Have you done a plug chop? This will tell you if the main jets are generally the right size.
However next point of reference after this should be the jet needle and in particular the clip position.Standard is in the middle (3rd) position of five.
As an experiment raise the clip to the top of the needle and take her out for a ride and see if it is an improvement.Lowering the needle/raising the clip has the effect of leaning out the mixture in the quarter to half open throttle settings.

For now dont worry about the diff SAPC's and air solenoids as only dyno dave types can tell the difference.
Oh yeah do you have a manual???

imdying
27th August 2012, 14:32
22D00 is a Jap SAPC with the low/mid raped out of it. Bin it.. it's designed for a 32mm carb and a mighty 45PS at the crank.
22D20 is another Jap SAPC, 45PS at the crank again.

Most RGV owners have one... or two... or in some cases a box of them! Now you know why :D

You want a 22D30, or a 23D70 (Aprilia RS250), or ideally a Zeeltronic box. Everything else is either a race unit (boom goes your engine) or some other restricted fucked up shit... see below...

<img style="border: 20px solid pink" src="http://www.picslap.com/sites/default/files/field/image/donotwant.jpg" />

Drew
27th August 2012, 17:18
Id place a tenner, that it's running rich. Lower the needles a couple grooves and see if it's better.

Asher
27th August 2012, 17:57
For example im cruising along at 100kmh in 6th at around 6k rpm, full throttle; no acceleration. Down to 5th at around 7k rpm still nothing. Down to 4th at around 8k rpm and im suddenly doing 140kmh. And i only get 100kms out of a tank.

Im starting to think its the fueling too, unfortunately absolutely nothing about carb setups.

Drew
27th August 2012, 18:07
For example im cruising along at 100kmh in 6th at around 6k rpm, full throttle; no acceleration. Down to 5th at around 7k rpm still nothing. Down to 4th at around 8k rpm and im suddenly doing 140kmh. And i only get 100kms out of a tank.

Im starting to think its the fueling too, unfortunately absolutely nothing about carb setups.

You need help, from someone who does.

wes76
27th August 2012, 18:53
I agree wiyh Drew, with those tyga pipes pipe you have on there you need to start with jetn down down 1 size on the mains, standard is 270-280, go down to 260-270, you may also need to lean out the needle by dropping it a notch. but remember 1 adjustment at a time, start with the mains by the sounds of you symptoms. A manual is worth is weight in gold...& while those carbs are off check the other jets arnt blocked & check your fuel levels as per manual. I know it sounds like a pain in the ass but when they are running right i guarantee you will have a grin from ear to ear

wes76
27th August 2012, 18:56
What area you live in bro...im from chch to, giz a yell if you get stuck

Asher
27th August 2012, 19:42
Im in Addington. I took the carbs and pipes as a pair off another bike and had thought they would had been jetted correctly, but they probably havent.

wes76
27th August 2012, 20:42
If there still factory they will be too rich. Will pay to go to avon city suzuki & get them to order you a 260 main jet for a start. Like I said giz a yell if ya want a hand.

wes76
27th August 2012, 20:43
Im round the corner in sockburn just down the road from avon city

Asher
27th August 2012, 20:47
I will do a plug chop sometime this week to confirm its running rich.

imdying
28th August 2012, 08:32
I'm sure I've got some jets here for the factory carbs, I'll have a dig about.

So it has Tyga pipes on it? If it does you'll probably want to start looking out for an RS250 SAPC instead of the 22D30.

wes76
28th August 2012, 13:32
Yep true dat, or even bettr zealtronic ecu

imdying
28th August 2012, 15:17
Yup for sure... I've got the tricky dicky timing light to check the compensation delay and all that jazz when you first install it, just sing out.

imdying
28th August 2012, 15:18
I will do a plug chop sometime this week to confirm its running rich.Flat out for a km then clutch it and coast to a stop.

Asher
28th August 2012, 18:14
I have no idea what the pipes are; there are no brands or codes stamped into them.


Yeah i might get a zeeltronic box, but after i sort out its running issue.

imdying
28th August 2012, 18:21
Yeah, one thing at a time. The Aprilia thing is to cure a cough that Tyga equipped bikes sometimes suffer from as they have a slightly different PV opening time.

Do you have a 22D30? That'd be the first thing to sort after your chop.

imdying
28th August 2012, 18:22
Flat out for a km then clutch it and coast to a stop.Oh yeah, don't forget to hit the kill switch hahahaha

Asher
28th August 2012, 18:27
No i dont have a 22D30, i would rather spend $220ish on a zeeltronic than $150 on a 22D30

imdying
30th August 2012, 10:30
The Zeel box will cost you about $400 all told, but I agree it's the way to go. Do you want a 22D30 to test with?

Drew
30th August 2012, 15:36
I'm not convinced it's put together properly. Is there a chance you've gotten imaginative with the wiring somewhere? It shouldn't have the same symptoms with two different CDI boxes.

Asher
30th August 2012, 18:03
Its probably running rich and I was blaming the sapc unit from the start.
But that's the least of my worries now, I was riding it home from getting wof and there was a big crunch :(
The rear locked up but I think its the gearbox exploding and not it seizing. Will find out for sure when I pull it apart tonight

Drew
30th August 2012, 21:40
Its probably running rich and I was blaming the sapc unit from the start.
But that's the least of my worries now, I was riding it home from getting wof and there was a big crunch :(
The rear locked up but I think its the gearbox exploding and not it seizing. Will find out for sure when I pull it apart tonight
:facepalm:Give you a hundy for it.

Asher
31st August 2012, 07:09
Dont tempt me :facepalm:

ducatilover
31st August 2012, 08:40
:facepalm:Give you a hundy for it.

A hundy and a back rub/reach around

Drew
31st August 2012, 20:06
A hundy and a back rub/reach around

I don't appreciate you trying to outbid me this way. Especially since I taught you that trick!

ducatilover
31st August 2012, 21:39
I don't appreciate you trying to outbid me this way. Especially since I taught you that trick!

You never let me have any fun :mellow:

Asher
1st September 2012, 13:37
Just pulled the clutch cover off and took the clutch out and spotted this decent crack in the gearbox plate:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8441/7903554276_251dfc2525_c.jpg

When i pulled the oil feed for the top of the gear box:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8317/7903554082_0ecdafb603_c.jpg

Looks like there was a pretty serious failure in the gearbox, will know exactly what later on in the week as i need to grab some sir-clip pliers and other tools from work.