Welfare reform bill passes into law [Archive]

mashman

19th July 2012, 22:33

At least we'll have cheap labour. (http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/14273145/welfare-reform-bill-passes-into-law/). Whilst I'm not overly happy about career "bludgers", this is beyond the pale. Not doubt ya'll will hollar hurrah... but what jobs are these people gonna do? The jobs that others won't take because of shite pay? I'd almost go as far as to say it's an attack on women! Oh but they should get jobs and they shouldn't be allowed to spend their money how they like unless they're doing something to earn it etc... What a bunch of fuckin selfish misguided savages we've become... it's really quite impressive.

scumdog

19th July 2012, 22:47

Whilst I'm not overly happy about career "bludgers", this is beyond the pale. Not doubt ya'll will hollar hurrah... but what jobs are these people gonna do? The jobs that others won't take because of shite pay?

Yep, do all the jobs advertised that nobody else seems to want to do.

Just like in the US there is heaps of jobs that apparently too menial for the good citizens of the country to do.

Funny how all them furrin workers lap them up eh?

And shit pay?
If it's $1 an hour more than the dole 'hourly rate' they're better off.

Speaking of which, the dole hourly rate is crap - divide the income per day into the 24 hours a dolie is on the dole and its way less than the minimum eh!:crazy:

Way too much 'entitlement' in this country!

FJRider

19th July 2012, 22:48

I liked the bit where sole parents that have another child while on a benefit ... must be available for work a year later ... in line with maternity leave ...

The "gravy train" is slowing down. Perhaps they might choose the free contraception that was recently decried ...

oldrider

19th July 2012, 22:59

Good on them, at least they are trying to do something positive about a problem almost "everybody" complains about! :corn:

mashman

19th July 2012, 23:02

Yep, do all the jobs advertised that nobody else seems to want to do.

Just like in the US there is heaps of jobs that apparently too menial for the good citizens of the country to do.

Funny how all them furrin workers lap them up eh?

And shit pay?
If it's $1 an hour more than the dole 'hourly rate' they're better off.

Speaking of which, the dole hourly rate is crap - divide the income per day into the 24 hours a dolie is on the dole and its way less than the minimum eh!:crazy:

Way too much 'entitlement' in this country!

So instead of paying a decent wage, let's find some slave labour? Talk about taking parents away from their kids. I note there's no mention of forcing grown men into work. I can't see it ending well at all.

I liked the bit where sole parents that have another child while on a benefit ... must be available for work a year later ... in line with maternity leave ...

The "gravy train" is slowing down. Perhaps they might choose the free contraception that was recently decried ...

Perhaps they'll just have another baby each year until they get to the point where it's impossible to manage work life and all them kids.

FJRider

19th July 2012, 23:05

Good on them, at least they are trying to do something positive about a problem almost "everybody" complains about! :corn:

But they didn't mention "Boy-Racers" ... :innocent:

mashman

19th July 2012, 23:06

Good on them, at least they are trying to do something positive about a problem almost "everybody" complains about! :corn:

:spanking: aye, that's what the problem is. Perhaps if people paid better wages... actually instead of spending 80 million on yet more administration, why not subsidise jobs so that they pay betterer? Then perhaps the people who want to work will take the jobs.

scumdog

19th July 2012, 23:07

So instead of paying a decent wage, let's find some slave labour? Talk about taking parents away from their kids. I can't see it ending well at all..

Especially if your a dolie by choice...:lol:

mashman

19th July 2012, 23:12

Especially if your a dolie by choice...:lol:

Aye... no doubt that's as far as it's going to go. At least it'll keep you a little busier, praps you'll finally work off them dounts :shifty:

scumdog

19th July 2012, 23:16

Aye... no doubt that's as far as it's going to go. At least it'll keep you a little busier, praps you'll finally work off them dounts :shifty:

Ahem, most of my 'clients' don't have a job - and frequently never have had a job.

So having a job MIGHT make them vanish from my 'client list'.

FJRider

19th July 2012, 23:22

Ahem, most of my 'clients' don't have a job - and frequently never have had a job.

So having a job MIGHT make them vanish from my 'client list'.

Nahhh ... they'll just drive a better class of wreck ... but with the same dick-head attitude ...

And more expensive piss ... you get to pour down the drain (or "confiscate") ...

mashman

19th July 2012, 23:22

Ahem, most of my 'clients' don't have a job - and frequently never have had a job.

So having a job MIGHT make them vanish from my 'client list'.

I agree that's a possibility... but are you really convinced that your clients will happily be forced into work and won't just become frequent flyers as they supplement the loss of income in a different way? Praps I'm being too negative, but I can see this ending up with there being less reason to want to come along quietly, perhaps worse. Guess we should be thankful that it's a minority group eh...

FJRider

19th July 2012, 23:28

I agree that's a possibility... but are you really convinced that your clients will happily be forced into work and won't just become frequent flyers as they supplement the loss of income in a different way? Praps I'm being too negative, but I can see this ending up with there being less reason to want to come along quietly, perhaps worse. Guess we should be thankful that it's a minority group eh...

Considering most of the "clients" he speaks of ... think Demerit points are a LTSA version of "Fly-buys" ... and rack up the points ... reason doesn't feature much ...

mashman

19th July 2012, 23:29

Considering most of the "clients" he speaks of ... think Demerit points are a LTSA version of "Fly-buys" ... and rack up the points ... reason doesn't feature much ...

That's one thing that concerns me. I guess we'll find out in the fullness of time. Widows on a rampage could be interesting.

FJRider

19th July 2012, 23:31

That's one thing that concerns me. I guess we'll find out in the fullness of time. Widows on a rampage could be interesting.

Widows on a piss cruise would worry me more. :facepalm:

Virago

19th July 2012, 23:42

... but what jobs are these people gonna do? The jobs that others won't take because of shite pay?... What a bunch of fuckin selfish misguided savages we've become...

Lol - I saw the news article earlier and was wondering when you would start bleating.

The real "fuckin selfish misguided savages" are those who believe that they are entitled to make a career out of sponging off the rest of society.

If they don't want to work because of "shite pay", they can fuck off and die.

...And shit pay?
If it's $1 an hour more than the dole 'hourly rate' they're better off...

Bingo.

Twenty years ago (after an illness), I spent a couple of months on a benefit. I had a young family to support, it was a tough time. When I got a job (at $9.00 an hour - about $14.30 in today's money), I found I was $20 a week better off than on the sickness benefit. Rather than bleat that I was "working for $20 a week", I saw the extra food I could put on the table for my kids, and worked my way through the lean times.

Brian d marge

20th July 2012, 01:37

266642 how bout them oldies ,,,,burning through that money

Watch the pennies and save the dollars by all means , but this is vote rigging thats all

Stephen

Winston001

20th July 2012, 01:58

266642 how bout them oldies ,,,,burning through that money

Watch the pennies and save the dollars by all means , but this is vote rigging thats all

Stephen

New Zealand was the first country in the world to introduce an old age pension - in 1898.

Now you are saying that is a bad thing?

98tls

20th July 2012, 02:39

Welfare or water?Simple really,fuck all the bullshit simply ask each one "do you want next weeks bludge or water".

Brian d marge

20th July 2012, 03:24

New Zealand was the first country in the world to introduce an old age pension - in 1898.

Now you are saying that is a bad thing?

now did I say that? dont think I did.... , I just pointed out where most of the money spent on welfare goes ,

saving a few pennies isnt a bad thing , but if your in the hole by 10 dollars , saving fifty cents isnt going to help much

It vote rigging to try and get the conservative oldie vote ...thats all

Stephen

FJRider

20th July 2012, 07:59

now did I say that? dont think I did.... , I just pointed out where most of the money spent on welfare goes ,

Stephen

More likely ... most of your money goes to ACC as "compensation" for "accidently" revealing client details to the wrong people .... (by E. mailing it to them) They really need to stop doing that.

mashman

20th July 2012, 08:26

Lol - I saw the news article earlier and was wondering when you would start bleating.

The real "fuckin selfish misguided savages" are those who believe that they are entitled to make a career out of sponging off the rest of society.

If they don't want to work because of "shite pay", they can fuck off and die.

Bingo.

Twenty years ago (after an illness), I spent a couple of months on a benefit. I had a young family to support, it was a tough time. When I got a job (at $9.00 an hour - about $14.30 in today's money), I found I was $20 a week better off than on the sickness benefit. Rather than bleat that I was "working for $20 a week", I saw the extra food I could put on the table for my kids, and worked my way through the lean times.

No they're not. If there aren't enough jobs and people have to be on the dole, leave them be. Simple concept. Yet the fuckin selfish misguided savages at the top of the tree think that these people are the problem. You can't get much more misguided, especially if there aren't enough jobs.

The world was a different place 20 years ago, and the 20 years before that. Measuring people against your own yardstick eh. You ain't the only one who "did it hard". Not all of us use it as the measure of a man. Some of us remember what it was like, how hard it can really get and remember those around us doing exactly the same things. It does more harm than good, but by all means go ahead and perpetuate it, fucking people over because of a minority that won't do what you expect the to.

Phantom Limb

20th July 2012, 08:36

Paul in NZ

20th July 2012, 09:04

mashman

20th July 2012, 09:24

Welfare reform has been something that this country has been needing for a long time here.
I fail to comprehend why people given the exact same oportunities as the rest of us are allowed to kick back and do fuckall while we, the blue collar majority pay their sky bills and put food on the table for the 3 kids they decided to have even though they couldn't afford even one!

The whole welfare system is rewarding people that refuse to take responsibility for their own choices.
EG:

-Should I have a shit load of kids?
A: Yes, it's my right to shit out as many kids as I want! The rest of the country should pay for them too.
B: I really should make sure I can afford to feed more mouths before I make that leap.

I know which answer is correct, do you?

Also I'm a bit sick of people harping on about 'those at the top' and 'the top 1%'. It's utter bullshit! This isn't a Simpsons episode, there is no legue of filthy rich buggers pulling the strings here. Dole bludgers are sucking most of their benefit out of the pockets of the working man and woman, those who faced adversity and kicked it's arse to make a life for themselves and their family.

Are the vast majority of those on the dole career bludgers? No.
Are all people equal? No.
Are there enough well paying jobs for everyone, to the extent where people don't need some form of govt subsidy? No.
Are there blue collar people/family's who structure their financial affairs so that they get access to govt subsidy's as well as a comfortable income? Yes.
Will this policy lower the birth rates of the bludgers who use children as a way to dodge working? No. Most likely quite the opposite.

As for a league of filthy rich buggers: Are the IMF (amongst others) imposing "conditions" on various country's in return for financial assiatance? Yes.

Answer: Get the bludgers :killingme... but please don't let the realities of life get in the way of a good ole Simpsons lunchmob

mashman

20th July 2012, 09:28

We humans expect to get everything right first time.

The welfare state is a relatively new thing and it has to fit into an ever changing economic landscape. The current system isnt perfect and its getting changed. It will get changed again and again and again.

The people this is targeting cannot be argued to be in a good position for themselves OR society.

Whats the problem here - its just the latest version of the system, if it doesn't work it will evolve again....

Bollocks. As witnessed by most many of us who work hard and fight to get what we have. A minority do though and they ain't all at the bottom by any means.

Aye, it's being changed with obvious flaws.

To hell with those who get caught in the cross-fire?

Because they are tinkering again... to the extent that could see, yes could, see the tax payer paying more money to keep a person in prison than they would have when they were on the dole.

MisterD

20th July 2012, 09:31

No they're not. If there aren't enough jobs and people have to be on the dole, leave them be. Simple concept.

No. If you don't have a job, and my taxes are keeping you, I expect you to treat trying to find a job, as a job in itself. Another simple concept.

Don't whinge to me that you don't have enough money, if there's a Sky dish on your roof and no spuds or silverbeet growing in your garden. Another simple concept.

Paul in NZ

20th July 2012, 09:37

Bollocks. As witnessed by most many of us who work hard and fight to get what we have. A minority do though and they ain't all at the bottom by any means.

Aye, it's being changed with obvious flaws.

To hell with those who get caught in the cross-fire?

Because they are tinkering again... to the extent that could see, yes could, see the tax payer paying more money to keep a person in prison than they would have when they were on the dole.

In any change some people will be disadvantaged. Thats not to say the system can't be tweaked if this doesn't work?

Hey this is still a democracy and a free society, if you feel strongly join a political party and do something about it. You can affect change you know. Either that or start a charity and help these disadvantaged people.

Bitching about it on here is a waste of time.

Phantom Limb

20th July 2012, 09:45

In any change some people will be disadvantaged. Thats not to say the system can't be tweaked if this doesn't work?

Hey this is still a democracy and a free society, if you feel strongly join a political party and do something about it. You can affect change you know. Either that or start a charity and help these disadvantaged people.

Bitching about it on here is a waste of time.

Fuckin aye! :2thumbsup

mashman

20th July 2012, 10:30

No. If you don't have a job, and my taxes are keeping you, I expect you to treat trying to find a job, as a job in itself. Another simple concept.

Don't whinge to me that you don't have enough money, if there's a Sky dish on your roof and no spuds or silverbeet growing in your garden. Another simple concept.

I agree with ya. Whilst they're at it remove Sky from prisons too. I don't expect these people to be looking all day every day and I do expect that these people be allowed to have some fun. Either way "expenses" should be provided. Is there a govt grant for wood and soil (yes most of that you can get for free iffen ya put in the hard yards, although there are transport costs etc...)

In any change some people will be disadvantaged. Thats not to say the system can't be tweaked if this doesn't work?

Hey this is still a democracy and a free society, if you feel strongly join a political party and do something about it. You can affect change you know. Either that or start a charity and help these disadvantaged people.

Bitching about it on here is a waste of time.

True... What's the next step? Forced sterilisation? This is a lazy policy, using a hammer to crush the one bad pea inside a bag of peas. They know who the "offenders" are, why aren't they targetting them directly?

I kind of have, sorta, early days.

Not at all. It let's me know what I'm up against. Funny that it's just seen as a bitch and a moan, not too sure who that's a bad reflection on :innocent:

The sad reality is that we will have a small part of soceity that doesn't want to contribute. We're not dealing with the problem and the people of the country seem to have no need to want to deal with the problem.

tigertim20

20th July 2012, 11:31

about time some changes were made.

Its all very well bitching about them poor poor people being forced off the benefits etc etc - but so fucking what? its designed to be a stop gap measure, not a career choice. People who GENUINELY want to be off the welfare and working arent going to be concerned as theyll be out there looking for work. The only ones who will be concerned will be the lazy cunts who think its their god given right to bludge for eternity.

The problem isnt so much that there isnt work, its that these fuckin idiots see a job a macdonalds, cleaning toilets, clearing tables at the mall food court etc etc as 'below them' instead of an opportunity to get a job, and show some fuckin self respect, integrity, and an opportunity to actually DO something to help themselves. I have several times taken jobs that I felt were below me, because I would rather EARN my money, I dont see why others cant do the same.

as for those who continue to breed like wild fuckin rabbits to stay on welfare - fuck them. Having too many kids is not an excuse to stay on welfare, its a good reason to take the kids away from them - if you cant feed your kids, you shouldnt have them, and bringing more into the world when you cant feed the ones you had without outside help just shows you to be a useless, brainless fuckin parent who shows no consideration for your childrens welfare - so no reason you should be trusted to care for them. Take the kids away, make the cunts work, return children when they can actually fund their own fucking sex life.

as for those who continue to find ways to 'slip through the cracks' - fuck them, let them starve to death, because their 'oh poor me I feel sad all the time so i cant work because I dont think I can handle a job because its below me wah wah wah fucking wahhh' sure is hell isnt do anything to help themselves, OR this country - so fuck em all.

BoristheBiter

20th July 2012, 11:38

266642 how bout them oldies ,,,,burning through that money

Watch the pennies and save the dollars by all means , but this is vote rigging thats all

Stephen

Gee you just know what buttons to press.

Out of that graph I would like to know what taxes have been collected from the super group over their working life.

The dole is a drain on our funds and the super is a way of saying thanks for your hard work so if you haven't worked then you don't get super.
Like in the UK the more you have contributed the more you get.

Then we might see a change but while there are the bleeding heart's like Mash I won't hold my breath.

Virago

20th July 2012, 11:51

...The world was a different place 20 years ago, and the 20 years before that. Measuring people against your own yardstick eh. You ain't the only one who "did it hard". Not all of us use it as the measure of a man. Some of us remember what it was like, how hard it can really get and remember those around us doing exactly the same things. It does more harm than good, but by all means go ahead and perpetuate it, fucking people over because of a minority that won't do what you expect the to.

I measure no-one. I simply point out that choosing not to work for shite wages is not a lifestyle option. Each of us has the responsibility to self-support to the best of our ability.

Welfare payments are a privilege, not a right. Those who genuinely need welfare deserve support and respect. Those who use the welfare system as a life-long career of frugal indolence need to be weeded out of the system. Ruthlessly.

Bleat all you like about the rich and the IMF, and get all hysterical with nonsense about forced sterilisation. At the end of the day, you're simply clutching at straws.

mashman

20th July 2012, 11:53

waaaa waaaaa waaaaa they're doing no one any good and should be left to die.

Savage! So why not target the "useless" directly? And what's wrong with holding out for something better, something that you are trained for? What about the family's who claim benefits even though they have a job? Is that ok?

Then we might see a change but while there are the bleeding heart's like Mash I won't hold my breath.

Bleeding heart now is it? Create some decent jobs and pay some decent wages then... given the rhetoric that's what it's all about, yet it doesn't seem to be happening and if the wage gap statistics are to believed, it's going in the completely opposite direction... and you expect people to lap it up and just do as they're told? I see no reason why they should. I certainly wouldn't. Give me the power and I'll hammer this country into the ground quicker than the current bunch of PC pussies.

mashman

20th July 2012, 12:02

I measure no-one. I simply point out that choosing not to work for shite wages is not a lifestyle option. Each of us has the responsibility to self-support to the best of our ability.

Welfare payments are a privilege, not a right. Those who genuinely need welfare deserve support and respect. Those who use the welfare system as a life-long career of frugal indolence need to be weeded out of the system. Ruthlessly.

Bleat all you like about the rich and the IMF, and get all hysterical with nonsense about forced sterilisation. At the end of the day, you're simply clutching at straws.

I agree. Calling it a lifestyle choice and then disassociating that from people not being responsible for self-supporting isn't really the full picture is it? What if the so called bludging lifestylers are part of the black market and are actually working for a living, they're just not paying taxes? Would that make a difference?

Surely there's a better way than hammering all of them?

:rofl: the sky is falling, there's no way in hell that we'll force people into work, that'd be like slavery... and there's plenty of folk on here who would be happy with forced sterilisation. :rofl:@clutching at straws... aye, much better to just stick my head in the sand with you crowd eh :whistle: the govt have got dis thang.

Phantom Limb

20th July 2012, 12:08

BoristheBiter

20th July 2012, 12:36

Bleeding heart now is it? Create some decent jobs and pay some decent wages then... given the rhetoric that's what it's all about, yet it doesn't seem to be happening and if the wage gap statistics are to believed, it's going in the completely opposite direction... and you expect people to lap it up and just do as they're told? I see no reason why they should. I certainly wouldn't. Give me the power and I'll hammer this country into the ground quicker than the current bunch of PC pussies.

I have a list and I'm working through it:killingme

So OK I give my staff a 30% pay rise so they are in line with Aussie companies.
So I now have to put the company charges up by 30% so now we are more expensive than others and lose work so there isn't the work that needs to be done so I have to lay off staff so they end up on the dole.

Yep good idea of economics you have there.......must take accountant and economist off the list.

Paul in NZ

20th July 2012, 12:39

I agree. Calling it a lifestyle choice and then disassociating that from people not being responsible for self-supporting isn't really the full picture is it? What if the so called bludging lifestylers are part of the black market and are actually working for a living, they're just not paying taxes? Would that make a difference?

Surely there's a better way than hammering all of them?

:rofl: the sky is falling, there's no way in hell that we'll force people into work, that'd be like slavery... and there's plenty of folk on here who would be happy with forced sterilisation. :rofl:@clutching at straws... aye, much better to just stick my head in the sand with you crowd eh :whistle: the govt have got dis thang.

Sorry - I'm not following your argument.

If they are in the black economy and working for a living how are they being affected unless they are also claiming a benefit as well??? Thats a bit naughty isnt it? Not paying taxes? Well go for gold then - opt out by all means but don't expect me to support you. Income tax is a sort of social contract isnt it - I'll pay in when I'm earning and support you buy when it goes pear shaped for me you help me out.

I'd be interested in knowing what your solution is? Or indeed what you might think the problem is?

Tigadee

20th July 2012, 12:46

What about the family's who claim benefits even though they have a job? Is that ok?

Aren't there less of these than those who leech off the system/career beneficiaries though? I have a job but I would love to receive financial assistance because my wife is ill and cannot work, so we're only scratching by on one income. And she doesn't receive illness benefit because she'd never worked in NZ except for some internship during her uni years.

mashman

20th July 2012, 12:48

'Create' some decent jobs and 'pay some decent wages'.

What magic wand is supposed to achieve that?
The only way I can see to 'create' decent jobs is to offer tax breaks to businesses in order to promote industry, but those people who are anti employers and anti 'the top earners' fail to realize that these top earners are the business owners and fuel our industry.

It really makes me laugh when we see protesters demanding better wages and more decent jobs, yet in the next breath they're wanting harder taxation on businesses and business owners. Do they realize that they're shooting themselves in both feet? More taxation on the top end forces them to leave our little country in order to further their empires over seas. So when our industry dries up, we working class drones become royally screwed!

What is the government supposed to do to 'create' jobs, hire more government employees? Thus increasing the tax burden on the rest of us?

They tried this in the US, just look up the stats on the number of govt vs private employees, it's a scary read!

Businesses and individuals got tax breaks. Where's the stimulated economy? Where are the better paying jobs? Some people just refuse to accept that tax cuts do not automatically mean more jobs and higher pay aaaaaaaand as people keep mentioning and have done since day 1, it's the productive individuals of a country that make its economy. So tell me again how throwing people onto the dole Q works for the economy? As for the theory of people leaving the little country. If all they care about is how much profit they make, then it's highly unlikely that they'll be giving a shit about their staff, which means they end up shooting themselves and us in the foot and by default they are more than likely to be an even bigger drain on the economy than the bludger. Irrespective of outcome, the "working" class drones are screwed.

They do these things in the UK as well ya know, France too, Spain, Greece, Germany etc... and they seem to manage... until there's a financial crisis that is and then the "working" class drones are screwed as they have to bail out banks :rofl:... you can't make this shit up. In the grand scheme of things, career bludgers do less damage to the economy than big business and their tax evasion. After all, if they're evading taxes they have more money and could pay their staff better and create new jobs... but they don't. Go figure!

mashman

20th July 2012, 12:50

I have a list and I'm working through it:killingme

So OK I give my staff a 30% pay rise so they are in line with Aussie companies.
So I now have to put the company charges up by 30% so now we are more expensive than others and lose work so there isn't the work that needs to be done so I have to lay off staff so they end up on the dole.

Yep good idea of economics you have there.......must take accountant and economist off the list.

I'm not saying that every business can afford it :bleh:... anyways, what's wrong with extra staff instead of pay rises... unless you feel you have enough staff and yours are worth the extra that is.

mashman

20th July 2012, 13:02

Sorry - I'm not following your argument.

If they are in the black economy and working for a living how are they being affected unless they are also claiming a benefit as well??? Thats a bit naughty isnt it? Not paying taxes? Well go for gold then - opt out by all means but don't expect me to support you. Income tax is a sort of social contract isnt it - I'll pay in when I'm earning and support you buy when it goes pear shaped for me you help me out.

I'd be interested in knowing what your solution is? Or indeed what you might think the problem is?

The thing is, we know that that's exactly how it works for some, maybe most as they're generally quite open about how to get more for less. If that's the case, target them directly. It is, as you say, a bit naughty. But they use the police, maybe more than you or I and in a slightly different way amongst other services, and you;re saying that they don't have to opt in? Ok, picky picky... the "law" says, obviously I'm paraphrasing, that if you aren't in recognised taxable work that you are entitled to a benefit and my point is, is that if you don;t investigate the individual, you will never know. It's like spraying for flies, just firing out a feckload of bug killer doesn't mean you've nailed the problem... plus it may have poisoned next doors crop.

:rofl: I'll have to ask permission from Boris first... but under the current circumstances there are probably many solutions, but I'd like to talk to a few people i.e. the career bludgers, before applying them... then I'll FULLY understand the problem in terms of people, money and jobs. However I have no doubt that there will be a fair portion of the career bludgers that are happy with their lifestyle. I'd rather not see them in jail incurring extra costs... which means a certain level of acceptance from Joe Public.

SMOKEU

20th July 2012, 13:04

The problem isnt so much that there isnt work, its that these fuckin idiots see a job a macdonalds, cleaning toilets, clearing tables at the mall food court etc etc as 'below them' instead of an opportunity to get a job, and show some fuckin self respect, integrity, and an opportunity to actually DO something to help themselves. I have several times taken jobs that I felt were below me, because I would rather EARN my money, I dont see why others cant do the same.

When I was on the unemployment benefit at the end of 2010 and beginning of 2011 I applied for over 50 jobs and didn't manage to get a single one. I had a tidy looking CV, no criminal convictions and a full clean 1F license, yet I only got 1 interview. The fact is that for people without the right skills or qualifications, there just aren't enough jobs to go around. I've got some big gaps in my CV as well so that doesn't help at all.

mashman

20th July 2012, 13:07

Aren't there less of these than those who leech off the system/career beneficiaries though? I have a job but I would love to receive financial assistance because my wife is ill and cannot work, so we're only scratching by on one income. And she doesn't receive illness benefit because she'd never worked in NZ except for some internship during her uni years.

I wish I knew for certain, but I reckon there are more family's ducking than there are out and out leeches (let's call it 50/50), after all we're not dumb and info is freely available on how to minimise ones tax obligation... the advice is on the internetz most days.

Hope yer missus gets better Tigadee :yes:. Vote me in, I'll ban the fuck out of money and it won't be a worry for you or your Wife... you can just focus on her getting better.

mashman

20th July 2012, 13:09

When I was on the unemployment benefit at the end of 2010 and beginning of 2011 I applied for over 50 jobs and didn't manage to get a single one. I had a tidy looking CV, no criminal convictions and a full clean 1F license, yet I only got 1 interview. The fact is that for people without the right skills or qualifications, there just aren't enough jobs to go around. I've got some big gaps in my CV as well so that doesn't help at all.

that's not good enough fucktard... next time stick a brush up yer arse and clean the streets whilst yer job hunting... amateur

SPman

20th July 2012, 13:12

tigertim20

20th July 2012, 13:59

When I was on the unemployment benefit at the end of 2010 and beginning of 2011 I applied for over 50 jobs and didn't manage to get a single one. I had a tidy looking CV, no criminal convictions and a full clean 1F license, yet I only got 1 interview. The fact is that for people without the right skills or qualifications, there just aren't enough jobs to go around. I've got some big gaps in my CV as well so that doesn't help at all.

so you applied for any job, regardless of what it was? if so, good on you.
My statements were directed at those who find ways to stay on welfare, that make excuses not to apply for jobs, not at those who have used it as it was designed - a stop gap measure in a short time of need until you can get on your feet.

SMOKEU

20th July 2012, 14:15

so you applied for any job, regardless of what it was? if so, good on you.
My statements were directed at those who find ways to stay on welfare, that make excuses not to apply for jobs, not at those who have used it as it was designed - a stop gap measure in a short time of need until you can get on your feet.

I applied for all sorts of jobs. Everything from cleaning toilets in cheap motels to stacking shelves in a supermarket. I had to go into Work and Income once a week with a group of other people and my case manager, and we all had to sit there and read the job lists, then tell the case manager which jobs we would like to apply for, and they would send our CV off for us.

There were about 6 of us in the group, and I was the only one who genuinely wanted a job. The rest of them only showed up because they had to, and they didn't give a fuck about finding a job. They just sat there and refused every job coming up with all sorts of excuses such as "I don't want to get my hands dirty" or "I'm not lame enough to work in a supermarket" or "I'm not getting out of bed at 7am for a minimum wage job" etc. It is currently too easy to abuse the system, particularly for women who have children as they are not required to find work until the youngest child turns 6 (I think), and then they only have to look for part time work.

Many people out there are more or less unemployable. If you owned a business, would you want to hire a single mother who is unreliable due to not having sufficient childcare for their kids, or a person with a big criminal history who has no formal qualifications or useful skills? I'm all for getting people off the dole and into work, but there just aren't enough jobs available for everyone.

avgas

20th July 2012, 15:27

Many people out there are more or less unemployable. If you owned a business, would you want to hire a single mother who is unreliable due to not having sufficient childcare for their kids, or a person with a big criminal history who has no formal qualifications or useful skills? I'm all for getting people off the dole and into work, but there just aren't enough jobs available for everyone.
I don't think the "jobs" is the problem. But I think you are on to something.
Plenty of jobs out there - but no real reason why people would do it, and not real incentive for people to hire them.

Of course if they HAD to accept jobs. And people HAD to hire "the unemployable". Do you think this would change?

I have worked with heaps of crims who turned their lives around picking fruit or working on the end of a shovel. But they HAD to work.

Apparently there are 5 jobs for cleaners on seek. http://www.seek.co.nz/JobSearch?DateRange=31&SearchFrom=quick&Keywords=toilet&nation=3001
This should be zero. Most are part time - so kids aren't a problem. Also most cleaning jobs ignore your past (criminal or not).

SPman

20th July 2012, 15:29

I'm all for getting people off the dole and into work, but there just aren't enough jobs available for everyone. A small point...often conveniently overlooked......espec. by those who hope to make capital out of it.

I don't know what it's currently like in NZ, but the USA, with it's official 8.something % unemployment rate, changed it's method of figuring unemployment a couple of years ago, so it wouldn't look to horrendous. Using the methods of the 70's and 80's, the actual unemployment rate is around 22%.

Brian d marge

20th July 2012, 16:43

A small point...often conveniently overlooked......espec. by those who hope to make capital out of it.

I don't know what it's currently like in NZ, but the USA, with it's official 8.something % unemployment rate, changed it's method of figuring unemployment a couple of years ago, it wouldn't look to horrendous. Using the methods of the 70's and 80's, the actual unemployment rate is around 22%.

Add to that part time workers , sickies , students ,,or any other who doesnt fit the strictly defined criteria ,,,, using that chart I posted and looking at the REAl unemployed , ex sickness benefitarys then that chart might need to be viewed in a different light , eg dole would be added to 1/2 sickness, and say solo mothers ......

Stephen

mashman

20th July 2012, 17:41

A small point...often conveniently overlooked......espec. by those who hope to make capital out of it.

I don't know what it's currently like in NZ, but the USA, with it's official 8.something % unemployment rate, changed it's method of figuring unemployment a couple of years ago, so it wouldn't look to horrendous. Using the methods of the 70's and 80's, the actual unemployment rate is around 22%.

I wonder what Spain's true figure would be as they're saying that they're at 25% :blink:... unless of course they're actually producing facts instead of statistics

oldrider

20th July 2012, 17:45

Just rename it the NZ Dream........same shit."It's a big club...and you and I aren't in it!"......but Key and co think they are prospects.......George, where are you when we need you.......fuckin die on us, y cunt!Jobs - just get a degree, that'll guarantee a decent job? No!

So true SPman!

George is right on the button but lets be clear about the "who" to which he refers is the owners of the process of creating and cancelling of new and old money!

These people are the real 1% that hold the other 99% (of the world!) under their infinite control!

Quote: "Give me control of the finances of the world, I care not who makes the rules" Baron Rothschild "owner" of the bank of England at that time!

(The likes of Rothschild family are some of those of whom George Carlin refers, members of the real 1% that own the world)

The silly thing is that we have the means of taking that power away from them but we (the 99%) don't believe it!

Even sillier is that we are prepared to go to war (sacrifice our lives) to defend their right to keep it from us! :wacko: