Innovative Moto Developments IMD250. Now you can help!

[steveyb]

Now you can all help in a small way each and make a difference.

Please vist:

https://www.pledgeme.co.nz/Crowd/Details/328

And put your hands in your pockets to make a difference to a whole bunch of people.

Cheers!

Steve
Moto Academy NZ
Innovative Moto Developments

[gammaguy]

I had a real good look thru your websites and still have a few questions.

Is the bike you are building up designed to be shipped overseas and ridden by our next world champion,or is it just to give the rider the feel of What he can expect in the class?

Also if this is the case what is the cost of mounting a realistic assault.on the title?

[steveyb]

The plan, as ambitious as it may seem, is to compete with Moriwaki and their MD250H in the GPMono space.
Moriwaki is the only company operating in that space (level below Moto3) in the global market. The price point of the MD250H is half of that of the NSF250 and 1/4 that of the proposed KTM customer bike. So, for national level racing, there is a place in the market for riders who have no budget for a Moto3 bike, but still want a bike that is competitive against 125GP bikes. We, well I, believe that our design will be superior to the MD250H in several areas.

In the USA, where the MD250H has been sold in the largest numbers (outside Japan anyway), they are competitive with most RS125/TZ125's and with the hop-up kit (CRF250R cam and high comp piston) they are competitive with hotter 125's. They are not competitive against Aprilia RS and RSW125s they have over there.

So, in the longer term we hope to be able to build a manufacturing industry building complete bikes and also kits to allow customers to retro-fit their own cycle parts. The longer term may well include using Moto3 engines, but their price is still too high (USD$16200 for the KTM). We hope our whole bike will come in around there.

We are not looking to compete either in a sporting sense, or in the marketplace, against Moto3 bikes from Honda and KTM. Our bike is not strictly a Moto3 bike as it uses an existing MX-based engine, this is against the Moto3 rules, so our bike is a GPMono machine. But Moto3 is a better label for people to hold onto.

The mid-term plan therefore is for Innovative Moto Developments to build at least two IMD250 bikes for Moto Academy NZ to be able to offer local and international riders the opportunity to race the 4-stoke style bike and develop skills for international competition, which around the world will be all 4-stroke before too long.

Clearly this is not the only route that is possible, look at Jake Lewis and his success. But he did start off on 2-strokes with the Aprilia RS125 and Honda RS125 bikes. But in the not so distant future, like it or not (and I don't particularly), young riders who know nothing about 125GP bikes, never heard of them, will be demanding 4-stroke Moto3 style bikes to race, alongside of the production style bikes that will be available in whatever guises. That time is not yet, but it is a challenge to stay ahead of the curve, not chasing it. We are already somewhat behind in that Spain and Italy already have a full Moto3 national championship and several bikes are racing in the ASBK.

At this stage I/we have no plans to go racing internationally, but it is a dream. It would be great to take the bike to Oz to see how it can go against the Moto3 bikes and young riders that are running in ASBK at the moment. One of them has two NSF250s!!!

At this early stage therefore, we are looking to build a prototype machine, tune, test and refine it. We will then look to go racing this summer in the Tri-Series and NZSBK 125GP class. Moto Academy NZ will have two RS125 bikes also available as back up and possibly for a novice nationals rider. We have no riders lined up as yet. Unfortunately, as with most bike racing, riders need to bring a budget to the table.

Be a shame to have three bikes sitting there doing nothing eh? CV's and expressions of interest for summer 2012/13 welcome!!

Hope that answers your questions.

Cheers
Steve
Moto Academy NZ
Innovative Moto Developments

[Shaun]

Good luck with this idea Steve

Have you plans for the chassis kit yet? What suspension brakesfairings electrics etc to be used? Do you have one or more frame designs to suit different engines or just one brand

[steveyb]

Good luck with this idea Steve

Have you plans for the chassis kit yet? What suspension brakesfairings electrics etc to be used? Do you have one or more frame designs to suit different engines or just one brand

Cheers Shaun.

We have chosen the Griffith Engineering GRP v2 frame. This base design works very well and has been adapted to quite a wide range of different engines now, all maintaining geometry close to the RS125. Other chassis suppliers are around, but we have chosen them to be our design partners.

Ohlins suspension courtesy of Kiwi Suspension Solutions. KSS will be building suspension units that will be unique to this bike and developed in partnership with Ohlins.

Honda RS125 Movistar fairings supplied by Just Fairings. Will try and do Carbon Fibre, but we'll have to see about that.

Standard Brembo brakes off RS125 with radial master and ductile iron disc.

Ignitech ignition along with Wobbly Pipes exhaust design manufactured by Cycleworks.

[Shaun]

Cheers Shaun.

We have chosen the Griffith Engineering GRP v2 frame. This base design works very well and has been adapted to quite a wide range of different engines now, all maintaining geometry close to the RS125. Other chassis suppliers are around, but we have chosen them to be our design partners.

Ohlins suspension courtesy of Kiwi Suspension Solutions. KSS will be building suspension units that will be unique to this bike and developed in partnership with Ohlins.

Honda RS125 Movistar fairings supplied by Just Fairings. Will try and do Carbon Fibre, but we'll have to see about that.

Standard Brembo brakes off RS125 with radial master and ductile iron disc.

Ignitech ignition along with Wobbly Pipes exhaust design manufactured by Cycleworks.


sweet, the more info you can release about the project the better results you will get I think Steve. Moto acadamy is Not a big name in the race scene as such, so any extra doors you can open may be the ones you need to make this project kick off.

best of luck

How much of a grant have you been given for small buisness enterprises through the goverment Steve, like John Britten had

[gammaguy]

sweet, the more info you can release about the project the better results you will get I think Steve. Moto acadamy is Not a big name in the race scene as such, so any extra doors you can open may be the ones you need to make this project kick off.

best of luck

How much of a grant have you been given for small buisness enterprises through the goverment Steve, like John Britten had

oh god

it had to happen,comparisons to the bike that was knocked up in a garden shed.even after a small business grant.

some of us know better

shh.

best of luck taking on the world Mr B.:first:

[steveyb]

sweet, the more info you can release about the project the better results you will get I think Steve. Moto acadamy is Not a big name in the race scene as such, so any extra doors you can open may be the ones you need to make this project kick off.

best of luck

How much of a grant have you been given for small buisness enterprises through the goverment Steve, like John Britten had

We have managed to secure a TechNZ Getting Started R&D grant, the value of which I am not at liberty to divulge, but really is only enough to 'Get us started' i.e. to tip us over the start line and given that Moto Academy NZ does not make any money, I have been steadfastly unsuccessful in attracting a cash sponsor and I don't have a real job, it is really really difficult to try and make something new happen to actually get ahead and the TechNZ grant and the PledgeMe project are really the only ways.

These grants are 50% reimbursable meaning, you spend the money first, then we will give you half of it back. These are not 'business as usual' grants but are for businesses looking to make a real difference to their business by creating a new product or process or improve one, such as prototyping like we are doing. The money is also not for capital expenditure, unless it is for the expert to make stuff for the prototype. The money is spent on 'experts' which often means scientists, but in our case means experts in frame, suspension, engine, exhaust etc work.

[bogan]

I'm confused, so it isn't a Moto3 bike? but a GPMono machine instead?

[Mental Trousers]

It's a Moto3 type bike but it won't qualify to compete in Moto3 because the engine is based on a motocrosser. So it's a GPMono - technically identical to Moto3.

[bogan]

It's a Moto3 type bike but it won't qualify to compete in Moto3 because the engine is based on a motocrosser. So it's a GPMono - technically identical to Moto3.

So what classes is it eligible for? Or is it more of a Moto3 training/practice bike?

[Mental Trousers]

Here in NZ I believe it can go head to head with the 125GP's, which normally run with F3/Pro Twins. Spain and Italy have a Moto3 National class that it could compete in. I don't know what other countries have though.

[Kevin G]

Here in NZ I believe it can go head to head with the 125GP's, which normally run with F3/Pro Twins. Spain and Italy have a Moto3 National class that it could compete in. I don't know what other countries have though.

Maybe in your world but 125 GP is its own national level class, it is only run with F3 tractors at club level.
Interesting to see if an MX engined machine will cut it against real race bikes, I doubt it to be honest but happy to be wrong (not really just an expression) Moto 3 is a Brand and class that is owned and trademarked by the FIM/Dorna and Steve should be careful what he calls things as he has misguided a few on his video that he is in fact building a Moto 3 bike which he is not.
Do not get me wrong, I wish Steve all the best and I hope he can build a great race bike.
My opinion is that with the International move to embracing the Moto 3 format the days are over for the bikes like the MD250 (250 mono) as it is no longer competitive and does not really have a class. I am not aware of any MD250 that can match a good 125 with equal ability riders...I could be wrong of course...

[Mental Trousers]

Maybe in your world but 125 GP is its own national level class, it is only run with F3 tractors at club level.

Forgot to qualify that bit. Nationals the 125's run by themselves.

[Kevin G]

Forgot to qualify that bit. Nationals the 125's run by themselves.

They used to be allowed in F3 at nationals as well until an RS 125 beat them all and they all had a cry and got them kicked out...

[steveyb]

Kevin is right, the bike we are building is really a GPMono bike, not a proper Moto3 bike, as that would require a prototype engine, but "misled" is a very strong word.
Moto 3 is a trademark owned by Dorna, but it would seem that they are happy that the name is used in order to raise its profile internationally.
We are not the first to be trying this concept and indeed GPTech in the USA are about 12 months ahead of us with their 'Moto3' branded bike which uses a Yamaha YZ250F engine.
Also in the USA they are calling their 250 class Moto3, other countries like Australia and UK are calling it Superlite or something similar.
It is just easier to use Moto3 as no one really knows what GPMono is. But the bike itself won't have Moto3 on it, like the GPTech one does.
In the USA and Australia the Moriwaki MD250H bikes (with hop-up kits) are competitive (not saying better, but competitive) with all but the best of their 125GP bikes and riders, so I don't see why that will be any different here, especially on our shortish, slowish circuits.
We believe that our design will be superior to the MD250H, but I guess we will have to wait and see about that won't we.
So this bike is being built to race in our 125GP/250GPMono/Moto3 (whatever we will call it into the future) class.

[jellywrestler]

They used to be allowed in F3 at nationals as well until an RS 125 beat them all and they all had a cry and got them kicked out...

I seem to rememeber a Bears Class getting served by a 14 year old bike an MBA Morbidelli 125 from memory, place stunk of Skunk weed, Body odor and bad breath as they all waved their arms around and kicked up a stink about the Jappa out there.
I laughed so hard I just about fell out of my secretary!

[Kevin G]

I seem to rememeber a Bears Class getting served by a 14 year old bike an MBA Morbidelli 125 from memory, place stunk of Skunk weed, Body odor and bad breath as they all waved their arms around and kicked up a stink about the Jappa out there.
I laughed so hard I just about fell out of my secretary!

Yip I remember that...

[Shaun]

We have managed to secure a TechNZ Getting Started R&D grant, the value of which I am not at liberty to divulge, but really is only enough to 'Get us started' i.e. to tip us over the start line and given that Moto Academy NZ does not make any money, I have been steadfastly unsuccessful in attracting a cash sponsor and I don't have a real job, it is really really difficult to try and make something new happen to actually get ahead and the TechNZ grant and the PledgeMe project are really the only ways.

These grants are 50% reimbursable meaning, you spend the money first, then we will give you half of it back. These are not 'business as usual' grants but are for businesses looking to make a real difference to their business by creating a new product or process or improve one, such as prototyping like we are doing. The money is also not for capital expenditure, unless it is for the expert to make stuff for the prototype. The money is spent on 'experts' which often means scientists, but in our case means experts in frame, suspension, engine, exhaust etc work.



There is a man in Aucland called Douglas Richard-bell, he owns a trendy cafe/restaurant/bar called DEUS motorcycles

I suggest you do some serious research,I do mean SERIOUS, and perhaps a buisness meeting with him Steve could lead to some thing for you, I know he is very genuinlly interested in the future and is a top man

[SWERVE]

http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-news-new-bikes/are-400cc-twins-the-next-sports-bike-trend/21087.html
Another "entry level" class for the future.......as you were.

[Billy]

There is a man in Aucland called Douglas Richard-bell, he owns a trendy cafe/restaurant/bar called DEUS motorcycles

I suggest you do some serious research,I do mean SERIOUS, and perhaps a buisness meeting with him Steve could lead to some thing for you, I know he is very genuinlly interested in the future and is a top man

Now that right there is the absolute best input of have seen to this whole idea,As much as I would like too see a Kiwi built machine on the grid anywhere in the world and Steve has some talented peeps onboard with this in the Griffiths boys,Robert at KISS and Glen at Just fairings,There are a number of things that irk me about it all,

Firstly as Kev has pointed out,A little of the info provided is not quite correct,A big no no when approaching anybody for funding,Something you might slip by a public servant dishing out development grants,But certainly not anybody with an ounce of business sense,

Secondly,On the face of it,It appears to be somebody with a pipe dream and no money,Asking the general public to fund them in a business venture they have no money for,I mean seriously,Who is going to own these 2 machines when and if they're built?? When theyre sold where do the profits go? Who will own the company?

Thirdly,We already have 4 amazing talents that desperately need funding to get to Europe right now in Jaden Hassan,Sam Croft,Tyler Lincoln and Aaron Hassan and quite frankly,Thats where I think the joe public money would be better invested and as has already been pointed out Jake is already there flying the Kiwi flag,Clearly the best avenue for getting on the world stage at this point is through Simon Crafar,He has the contacts and the know how required to make it work,I have spoken to him at length about it and his best advice was,If you got somebody you think has the ability,Get him to Europe asap,He can't help anybody while theyre in NZ and it dont matter what they win here.

In short Steve,Take Shauns advice and get a proper business plan drawn up with no grey areas or half truths in it and take it to the corporate world,If the idea stacks up,You shouldnt have any problem selling it as a manufacturing company,Imagine if it worked and you ended up getting paid $100k a year as project/team manager and got to fullfil your dream,BRILLIANT IDEA,EXCELLENT FORESIGHT,TOP TECHNICAL PEEPS ONBOARD,WRONG APPROACH imho,Good luck however it turns out

[steveyb]

Jesus Billy, thanks for that.
Who needs enemies eh?
We have a full business plan, it is alot clearer than the video, which is only one part of the marketing mix, but far too long to include in the Pledgeme project page and the TechNZ people have analysed it. No one is being fleeced, which it seems is the hidden meaning of your post as it is clear what we are trying to achieve. OK, so it is not a true Moto3 bike, but that is a little bit semantic.

If I read your post correctly, Pipe dreams are only available to those who have money. That's the way, keep the ideas guys and those with a dream down, while those who have money by hook or by crook, can make more.

I am investing every cent that I can possibly invest in Moto Academy NZ and the new venture, basically because I have no options as I live in NZ and as a PhD nanomaterials scientist with 20 years experience, over 30 publications including the best science journals in the world, 7 patents and several students supervised, I can't find a job and have not had a real job or real income for over 3 years now. Great eh?

But I am still here and still trying to achieve something.

I am afraid to say though that the world is moving on in many ways. Crowdfunding is just one of those ways. Crowdfunding is not about sponsorship, or one person paying the bills or anyone else paying for the whole thing, as would be the case with a sponsor. It is about using the internet and social media to allow many different people to make a small, or large, contribution to a project simply because they like the idea and want to help. Nothing more nothing less.

Of course I have little money, but I have an idea have been working it up for 6 months now, working on the plan, the team and design aspects. In my book asking a sponsor to pay for such a project would be a more unlikely way to go. When it is working, OK, but at the prototyping phase, that is too early.

I am fully aware of what Simon is doing and agree with him. I know what my limits are and sending a young rider to Europe from NZ with no grounding or experience would be wasting everyones time and money and dreams. A grounding in a certain skill level is necessary.

Thanks for that. Maybe NZ is not the place to try something new with the knocking machine that is extremely well oiled, but the pledgers who are interested in helping seem to disagree. I don't have the thickest skin in the world and these sorts of comments I take to heart quite hard sometimes. Perhaps that means I should just fuck off and leave y'all to it?

[bogan]

I can kind of understand where Billy is coming from. The writeup and lack of clarification of the Moto3 bit does make it sound not the most well thought out. I've recently had some business planning mentoring, using the Business Model Canvas, and its really narrowed down this side of things. Hope it goes well for you guys anyway!

[steveyb]

The Pledgeme project is by necessity quite limited.
As indicated at the start of that page, more information is available on the Moto Academy NZ website which makes things clear, at least it should.

[Billy]

Jesus Billy, thanks for that.
Who needs enemies eh?
We have a full business plan, it is alot clearer than the video, which is only one part of the marketing mix, but far too long to include in the Pledgeme project page and the TechNZ people have analysed it. No one is being fleeced, which it seems is the hidden meaning of your post as it is clear what we are trying to achieve. OK, so it is not a true Moto3 bike, but that is a little bit semantic.

If I read your post correctly, Pipe dreams are only available to those who have money. That's the way, keep the ideas guys and those with a dream down, while those who have money by hook or by crook, can make more.

I am investing every cent that I can possibly invest in Moto Academy NZ and the new venture, basically because I have no options as I live in NZ and as a PhD nanomaterials scientist with 20 years experience, over 30 publications including the best science journals in the world, 7 patents and several students supervised, I can't find a job and have not had a real job or real income for over 3 years now. Great eh?

But I am still here and still trying to achieve something.

I am afraid to say though that the world is moving on in many ways. Crowdfunding is just one of those ways. Crowdfunding is not about sponsorship, or one person paying the bills or anyone else paying for the whole thing, as would be the case with a sponsor. It is about using the internet and social media to allow many different people to make a small, or large, contribution to a project simply because they like the idea and want to help. Nothing more nothing less.

Of course I have little money, but I have an idea have been working it up for 6 months now, working on the plan, the team and design aspects. In my book asking a sponsor to pay for such a project would be a more unlikely way to go. When it is working, OK, but at the prototyping phase, that is too early.

I am fully aware of what Simon is doing and agree with him. I know what my limits are and sending a young rider to Europe from NZ with no grounding or experience would be wasting everyones time and money and dreams. A grounding in a certain skill level is necessary.

Thanks for that. Maybe NZ is not the place to try something new with the knocking machine that is extremely well oiled, but the pledgers who are interested in helping seem to disagree.

Err no,I wasn't suggesting anybody was being fleeced at all,All I was suggesting(and thats all it was) was that you went down the path of gaining financial backing for your project from the corporate sector,Rather than the public domain where people are already struggling and you may or may not gain enough funds to do the job properly as opposed to taking shortcuts towards the end as funds start to dry up,Better in my mind to do the job properly or not at all,Irealise youve probably been door knocking for sponsorship for what must seem like an eternity with little if any success,But this would be different if the person could see it was more than just another punter looking for a free ride,Hell who knows,If you floated the idea of a company that people could buy a share of and get some sort of return on,I think you'd have a better chance of securing a good amount of funding that way,Hell I might even consider putting in $5 or $10k if I thought I was gonna own something at the end and get a return,But I sure aint gonna pour money into a sport I already donate a whole lot of time/money and product to with very little return if any.I can think of 2 or 3 others that think along the same lines as I do and would most likely be interested in an investment as well.

I'm not sure where you get the knocking machine from out of my post,Short of the fact I thought you would be better off approaching the funding differently,As far as the Moto 3 /250 mono thing goes,Yeah to you and I its incidental,But to a corporate its confusing and off putting,To them its like,Wait a minute in paragraph 1 its a Moto3 bike but down in paragraph 5 its a super mono.Pretty sure my post ended with,Good idea,Right peeps and good foresight ????

As far as the unemployment for 3 years goes,Well thats something only you can deal with,Sure you might have plenty of education and possibly could earn a million dollars a year if you could find a job in that area,But you can't and if you really wanted to make this thing work,You'd be shovelling shit or flipping burgers at Mc Ds to make it happen,Not expecting the peeps that do those jobs to fund it for you,Not knocking the idea,Just saying it as I see it,Good luck

[Robert Taylor]

Irrespective of whether there are any flaws or not in Steves business plan there is a reality that here in NZ the fleet of 125s being raced is quite old. So in line with whats happening in the rest of the world this is a logical progression in thinking about what can be done to rejuvenate this very valuable class.
Collectively Steve Bagshaw, Steve Ward, Kevin Goddard and a few others over time have done a stellar job in helping to foster and develop young riders that have progressed on to bigger capacity formulae. Their efforts are not to be understimated or undervalued, given also that in too many instances they have foregone thoughts of own personal luxuries by digging deep into their own pockets to help along riders. Sadly that can leave itself open for being taken for granted.
You can of course purchase a Moto3 bike but not so many Kiwis have the capacity to do that, and any really serious money gets spent in the premier class.
We look at trying to get Kiwis overseas but I see this personally as more of something that will bolster domestic racing.

[Brian d marge]

I to would go down the business plan route ,,,

Even in my small way , prototypes and all it entails , are a sure way to lose money

I can help, with the design in particular setting up an open source design studio/ rapid prototyping ,

Thinking doesn’t cost money , and the more you can do on the computer , the more you can save ,,BUT getting it right is first time is hard !

I can help out , ( and do sometimes, just so forgetful with my bank account numbers sorry, sorry about that )

Good luck , and go for it ...but watch those pennies ......( been there done that, )

Stephen

[steveyb]

Konichiwa Stephen-kun.
You for one, have been so helpfull already it is not funny.
Forgetting those bank acct details will get you in trouble, you know that!

Send me an email with the design aspects you feel you may be able to help with.
I hope you will be able to continue to help as you already have, but you will need to remember that bank acct number at some stage!!

Domo arigato gozaimasu!!

[gammaguy]

I seem to rememeber a Bears Class getting served by a 14 year old bike an MBA Morbidelli 125 from memory, place stunk of Skunk weed, Body odor and bad breath as they all waved their arms around and kicked up a stink about the Jappa out there.
I laughed so hard I just about fell out of my secretary!

I am very familiar with the bike,the guy who rode it and everything about the whole affair.

The BEARS in the late eighties and early nineties especially made a career out of banning anything competitive(read 2T) that beat anything classic(read oil leaking/hellish noisy/old british/4T)

It was the reason I sold my Cagiva and went back to Japanese,in utter disgust of the bull I had to listen to and put up with.

I would hope things have settled down in the BEARS cave since those days.

Back on topic,I tend to feel that the better approach to this will be more succesful if it it pitched as less of a "Kiwis take on the world"and more of a "lets get local riders on board a more relevant bike"

The riders who were and the public at large are hugely more informed now than they were in the nineties,( thanks largely to the internet)when Mr Britten was campaigning his machine,not to mention Kiwis like Mr Crosby and Mr.Turner very nearly winning world championships back in the day.Sadly those days are gone and it is cubic dollars that rule now not cubic centimeters and good riding alone will not get you anywhere near the top.

To garner public support needs an onside and informed support from NZ and I feel a more realistic target will be NZ champs at least to start with.

Realistic targets are more easily achieved and then you have a winner not just a contender.

[steveyb]

Err no,I wasn't suggesting anybody was being fleeced at all,All I was suggesting(and thats all it was) was that you went down the path of gaining financial backing for your project from the corporate sector,Rather than the public domain where people are already struggling and you may or may not gain enough funds to do the job properly as opposed to taking shortcuts towards the end as funds start to dry up,Better in my mind to do the job properly or not at all,Irealise youve probably been door knocking for sponsorship for what must seem like an eternity with little if any success,But this would be different if the person could see it was more than just another punter looking for a free ride,Hell who knows,If you floated the idea of a company that people could buy a share of and get some sort of return on,I think you'd have a better chance of securing a good amount of funding that way,Hell I might even consider putting in $5 or $10k if I thought I was gonna own something at the end and get a return,But I sure aint gonna pour money into a sport I already donate a whole lot of time/money and product to with very little return if any.I can think of 2 or 3 others that think along the same lines as I do and would most likely be interested in an investment as well.

I'm not sure where you get the knocking machine from out of my post,Short of the fact I thought you would be better off approaching the funding differently,As far as the Moto 3 /250 mono thing goes,Yeah to you and I its incidental,But to a corporate its confusing and off putting,To them its like,Wait a minute in paragraph 1 its a Moto3 bike but down in paragraph 5 its a super mono.Pretty sure my post ended with,Good idea,Right peeps and good foresight ????

As far as the unemployment for 3 years goes,Well thats something only you can deal with,Sure you might have plenty of education and possibly could earn a million dollars a year if you could find a job in that area,But you can't and if you really wanted to make this thing work,You'd be shovelling shit or flipping burgers at Mc Ds to make it happen,Not expecting the peeps that do those jobs to fund it for you,Not knocking the idea,Just saying it as I see it,Good luck

Yeah, like I said, thin skin. I take things to heart really badly sometimes. I need to get over that.

The Moto3/GPMono thing is a bit of an issue, but I am not sure how much really. I think that in reality GPMono as a term has been and gone and any bike of the Moto3 type will be referred to as a Moto3, if not already, then in the near future. As suggested, in the USA they are already doing just that.

I would say though, that the crowdfunding thing is part of the new future of how people will achieve projects which they really want to achieve, but don't have the means to do it. The traditional funding bodies and sponsorship routes are being bled out. The internet allows this sort of platform to exist, and at the end of the day, it is the crowd that speaks. There are plenty of projects on PledgeMe and Kickstarter.com (just two of the many pledge sites that exist now) that do not reach their targets. The crowd only funds projects that it thinks are worthy. The crowd makes the judgement on whether they think the people and/or the project are clowns or worth helping. It is the new way where people neither need, nor want equity. Equity is generally available in a project, this one included, if one wants and approaches the team, but it would generally come at a higher price than the $25-250 sort of money pledged via pledge sites. Traditional approaches are slowly disappearing as you realise, small numbers of people don't have large sums to risk on risky prototyping ventures much anymore. But large numbers of people have small amounts of money that they are willing to give just to help someone realise a dream or whatever, if they think it is worthy, fun, exciting, whatever.

The unemployment statement was put in to indicate that I am indeed not just a punter looking for a free ride. I feel my track record speaks for that. But sorry, to suggest that working at MacDonalds is the way to make ends meet is quite condesending. If you could see the pile of reject letters from job applications you would not be saying that, or you might still. In NZ I am too old, over qualified or under experienced. I have lived and worked overseas, so not so keen to do that again, but it might come to that one day. I am doing plenty of odd jobs and selling anything valuable to stay afloat, such as my beloved RS250 that I spent years working up to just where I wanted it to be. But needs must eh?

Anyway, I guess there are those out there who don't know me and might see all this as being quite defensive, but I feel that if you believe in an idea and yourself you should defend them.

Cheers.

[steveyb]

Back on topic,I tend to feel that the better approach to this will be more succesful if it it pitched as less of a "Kiwis take on the world"and more of a "lets get local riders on board a more relevant bike"

The riders who were and the public at large are hugely more informed now than they were in the nineties when Mr Britten was campaigning his machine,thanks largely to the internet.

To garner public support needs an onside and informed support from NZ and I feel a more realistic target will be NZ champs at least to start with.

Realistic targets are more easily achieved and then you have a winner not just a contender.

And that is precisely what our project is about, precisely.
We realise where our limits are in Moto Academy NZ. We are not a world championship team, but we are good at providing young riders with a solid grounding, it is up to them how they apply that and what they subsequently do with it.
One thing I think is really missing in NZ are the real, concrete, actual, infrastructures to take those young riders with talent and skill base on to the next level without having to risk their parents houses and businesses to do it.
Sure it all takes money, but having an infrastructure of the type of Moto Academy NZ or the FMI in Italy (not to compare the two) allows these things to be done more efficiently and hence for lower costs to the riders themselves.
Our long term plan with the bikes is to take on the world in the marketplace, not in the sports arena. That is up to racing teams.
I would love to be involved in a world champs racing team, but that is not the plan currently.

[Brian d marge]

I hope there is tee shirt big enough !!!

Stephen

[DaveyJones]

Hey Steve

Just as an idea, why dont you post this concept to maybe some of the Engineering Universities in New Zealand.
I could be the fastest way to get a prototype designed and built for free if the University agrees to fund it.

Just an idea anyway.

I'd be happy to help out in anyway.

Cheers

[steveyb]

Hey Steve

Just as an idea, why dont you post this concept to maybe some of the Engineering Universities in New Zealand.
I could be the fastest way to get a prototype designed and built for free if the University agrees to fund it.

Just an idea anyway.

I'd be happy to help out in anyway.

Cheers

Hey Dave.
Yep, thought about that, but there are several barriers to doing such a thing:
1) It simply takes too long. It would take at least a year, probably three because many things need to be built into the project above and beyond just building a prototype, and funding needs to be obtained; what's in it for the students, when are they going to do it, has anyone actually done it before so will anything they do be any good, what science or engineering problem are they solving/investigating by doing the project? Remember, universities are not jobbing shops, projects are worked out often several years ahead of time in order to get students and resources lined up.

2) Who will own the IP? Universities do nothing for free, nothing. Someone has to pay for it some how. Usually that is the taxpayer, but in the case of industrial projects it is the company, or the university takes an equity stake. In our case, all the IP will reside with the experts invovled in the project, so we are paying them for their time to contribute to the prototype. In that way the project gets completed on time by people who know what they are doing.

3) However, there are aspects that can and might well be looked at by the university. For instance, I am in discussions with the design school at Massey Wellington to study the aerodynamic efficiencies of different bike and fairing shapes. These sorts of projects are what the universities are really good at, but someone still has to pay for it. We will see how it goes.

Cheers mate.

[RobGassit]

Really wish you all the best with this Steve, and obviously you have the engineers and the riders to pull it off, maybe even before the Nationals. If we had more than fumes to run our team on, we would happily support your team in some small way. Just keep forging on and in the meantime Sarah and I will be saving up for a couple of your team supporters T shirts.

[steveyb]

.....;).....

[quallman1234]

3) However, there are aspects that can and might well be looked at by the university. For instance, I am in discussions with the design school at Massey Wellington to study the aerodynamic efficiencies of different bike and fairing shapes. These sorts of projects are what the universities are really good at, but someone still has to pay for it. We will see how it goes.


Massey's engineering department is a joke, don't waste your time.

[steveyb]

Massey's engineering department is a joke, don't waste your time.

Hahaha, maybe so, I would not like to comment.
No, I am talking with the Institute of Design for Industry and the Environment.

[miper]

Dunno whether this is the sort of thing you are meaning

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/MORIWAKI-MD250H-HONDA-RS125-HONDA-CRF250X-NEW-COND-ROAD-RACING-BIKE-/310415888421?pt=AU_Motorcycles&hash=item48463a9025

As you were......

[steveyb]

Yes, that is the Moriwaki.
That one has been on there for ages, and the price is falling.
Not sure what that means, but a fairly good buy for that price I would think.

[RDjase]

Just about there Steve !

https://www.pledgeme.co.nz/Crowd/Details/328

[steveyb]

10 days left.
If anyone is thinking about helping, please do so soon.
Remember, if we don't reach the threshold, we get nothing.

Thanks to everyone!

Steve

[Shaun]

10 days left.
If anyone is thinking about helping, please do so soon.
Remember, if we don't reach the threshold, we get nothing.

Thanks to everyone!

Steve


you better take a job at mackas steve and top it up then eh

[steveyb]

You reckon that after a look at my CV they would hire me?

[Mental Trousers]

You reckon that after a look at my CV they would hire me?

Fluffer in the porno industry maybe ...

[steveyb]

Now you are talking!
Sign me up.

Get to fiddle with the girls and not have to go on camera and perform on cue.

Unless you were talking about the other crowd.........

not my gig.

Check out my listings for stuff for sale. All going into the pot.
KTM rolling chassis, Dainese leathers, RS125 parts, pound of flesh, soul..... The list goes on.

[Bert]

The IMD250 on display on VMCC round 4 (today). Steve smiling ear to ear.
photo's here (http://www.motoacademy.co.nz/gpmono-moto3-project-blog/)

Amazing work done in such a short time; lovely shaped frame. :love:
Great work too all involved.

[Shaun]

Looking very promising guys

[crazy man]

holy cow that can't be legal can it

[steveyb]

SX450F with mountings for turbo charger.

oops.........

cat, bag.....

[Sketchy_Racer]

Hi Steve,

Bike is looking great! Just out of curiosity I was wondering how the frame design came about and if you guys ran FEA analysis on it? It would be interesting to build a 3D model of an existing RS125 chassis and compare them in a stress analysis.

Cheers,

-Sketchy

[codgyoleracer]

holy cow that can't be legal can it

Can i spy a dodgy weld there.......... :-)

[steveyb]

All the welds are dodgy, or should that be codgy, given the bloke who has done the welding! But that is part of the perfectly determined frame flex.....

Sketch, no Finite Element Analysis (FEA) at this stage. The chassis has been designed and built empirically based on 5 previous incarnations that have all been tested under fire and modified when necessary. One of the chassis is a multiple NZ championship winning chassis, one is a possible championship winning chassis and the design has had much direct compare and contrast with the Tigcraft chassis, which we know also works well.

If you are keen to do the FEA then I am keen to let you, hahahaha. Not sure if it is readily available here???

Cheers

Steve

[steveyb]

HUGE thanks to all those of you who have figuered that I am worthy, but more importantly that our project is worthy, of helping.
The Pledgeme project has reached the target of $5500 with 5 days left to run.
If you want to pledge, but have not yet done so, please don't hesitate in doing so, the more the merrier!!

Huge thanks again.

Now I'll have to get those caps, shirts and jackets organised.....

[Tony.OK]

Good stuff!!

I put down for a cap but thinking about it I'd prefer ya didn't have to get one so can buy a couple of nuts or bolts for the project instead Steve :yes:

[steveyb]

Cheers Tony!!
Every bit helps.

With regard to your thoughts on bikes to get for yourself, the SV650 makes a good platform for low(ish) cost racing, and not too slow y'know. Good riders are sub 76s at Manfeild. That is pretty quick in anyones language and it is all relative anyway. 10 bikes doing 76s altogether is better than one doing 70-72s on its own.
As pointed out though, they can be tempramental as they really are not designed for racing.
The other option is to convert a 600 into 450. The Yamaha and Suzukis seem to work really well and go plenty fast and are much easier to ride than an SV or a 1000. The Yamaha seems to be a bit more reliable than the Suzuki, but that might well be because the Suzukis have been used much more and therefore have seen the bugs come up and be sorted out, while the Yams have not yet seen all that.
You can get a really nice 450 bike with top level suspension sorted for a really good price.
That would be my advice.

[Brian d marge]

All the welds are dodgy, or should that be codgy, given the bloke who has done the welding! But that is part of the perfectly determined frame flex.....

Sketch, no Finite Element Analysis (FEA) at this stage. The chassis has been designed and built empirically based on 5 previous incarnations that have all been tested under fire and modified when necessary. One of the chassis is a multiple NZ championship winning chassis, one is a possible championship winning chassis and the design has had much direct compare and contrast with the Tigcraft chassis, which we know also works well.

If you are keen to do the FEA then I am keen to let you, hahahaha. Not sure if it is readily available here???

Cheers

Steve
you do remember what I do over here, !

Stephen

[steveyb]

Oh, yeah, umm, suitably chastised!!

Righto, email me what info you might need me to send you to perform said analyses my ex-pat friend.

S

[Brian d marge]

Oh, yeah, umm, suitably chastised!!

Righto, email me what info you might need me to send you to perform said analyses my ex-pat friend.

S

Just a working drawing of the frame , or a .STL file , loading data would be geat failing that I can estimate , using http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=be5zmIh5Jm4

or you could do it yourself using http://www.dhondt.de/index.html which it what I use

Stephen

As per reaching your target , well done!! now wheres me tee shirt !

[steveyb]

As mentioned elsewhere, Sat 24 Aug was a perfect day to be racing motorcycles, so we decided to congregate at Manfeild to do just that.
After having sat out the less than appealing weather of the July round (well alright, I was flat on my back with what felt like influenza) we were all raring to go and to see how the new front forks would perform.
The KTM 250SX-F engine had had a bit of a seeing to also with a new piston, rod kit and good set up.

Robert Taylor and Dennis Shaw at Kiwi Suspension Solutions had worked their magic on the forks (OK,ok, in their case 'magic' really means 'lots of time and sweat') to transform the standard Honda RS125 Showa forks into Ohlins emulating NIX20 style forks. With some smart thinking and tricky machining we now have forks which are as close to Ohlins forks as one can hope to get, for a small fraction of the cost.
If you are unaware of what the NIX system is, fundamentally it creates forks where one fork does the compression speed control and the other fork does the rebound speed control. Also it allows rapid modification of the valving without having to remove the forks or the cartridge from the bike. Very smart and VERY effective. So now we have just one 'clicker' in the top of each fork to twiddle. Simple.
And not to mention that now we actually have effective control, not like the standard Showa forks which have bugger-all good control.

QP: Marc-Antoine set the fastest time of the MotoGP125 class (well, thanks to Rogan not setting a time), but hey, we will take it. So the IMD250 gets its first official Pole Position, yay!!

Race 1 saw Marc get the holeshot and lead the first lap. The bike was going really well and looked like it was on rails. Unfortunately on the first lap the bike sputtered to a halt. Back in the pit it fired right up and made no odd noises, so we were a bit puzzled.

Race 2: after checking a bunch of different things and changing the spark plug Marc again got the holeshot into T1 and powered off around the track. Again, the bike looked great, sounded great, was going really quick, almost keeping up with the RS125 and again looked like it was on rails. Marc says that the handling is superb, even if he is a learner rider. But after 2 laps the bike sputtered to a halt again.

Again we checked some things and sent Marc out at lunchtime where he did a few laps on his own in front of the spectators. Must say, the bike out there on its own looks and sounds pretty CHOICE!! But it spluttered again, but Marc bought it back to the pits this time.

So we had a good think about it and finally traced the issue to a mistake I had made where I had set up the fuel tank breather hose with a sharp bend in it. This bend was enough to kink the hose and not allow air to pass fast enough. So we re-routed that and sent him out for race 3.
All was going swimmingly until Marc made a good old fashioned rookie mistake and stalled the bike on the line. He was forced to get off the track for the start, but after the bikes had all gone we got the bike started and he set off in chase of Roman on the RSF250 about a half lap (and a full lap) ahead.

Marc had suggested that the front was diving down under brakes a bit faster than he would like so we had slowed down the compression damping just a touch (so easy to do with the KSS NIX 20 system).

Marc caught up to Roman and managed to pull about a half a lap more, so was only half a lap down at the end of the race, or something like that. I was really pleased to see how well the bike and Marc were going. He indicated that the small adjustment made to the forks made a good difference to the handling to make it even better.

The fine control that we now have and the dynamic response that the forks now have that provides great feedback to the rider is courtesy of the time that Robert and Dennis have put into design and manufacture of parts and the time of tuning those parts on their suspension dynomometer system. Without all that effort we would all be shooting in the dark and possibly ending up upside down. Nobody wants that, so do yourselves a favour and give them a call!

So, all in all, a great day at the track. Shame about my silly set-up mistake, but now I know it will make it easy to do it right.

We are off to Ruapuna for next Saturday with Jamie and Roman Rajek. It will be great to see young Roman going great guns on Ruapuna and to see how quickly Marc-Antoine can adapt to a new, and complex, race track.

I wish to wholeheartedly thank all those people who have helped us get to this point where it finally looks like the bike is fast, handles well and is reliable (next weekend should tell us that). Robert and Dennis at KSS, Liz at Interislander, Brent and Scotty, Victoria Motorcycle Club, Henshaw Signs, RaceSupplies, Cycleworks, RichBan, Greg P, Jean-Phillipe Jacquet, Marc-Antoine Jacquet, W White Wholesale, Bridgestone, the TSS team, NZ Cylinders, PledgeMe.co.nz and all the pledgers, GrowWellington and TechNZ and of course, Martin Dunn.

Cheers all.

SteveyB

[jellywrestler]

fucking cool to see a pole position and nearly a race win at hampton downs at the NZSBK final round this year, it's taken a lot of hard work over the years....