Is bad driving compulsory?

[Blackbird]

Living in the wilds of Coromandel where learning to play the banjo is compulsory and all the locals look alike, it's sometimes hard to keep up with mainstream news. We've just got back from a 2 day trip to Hastings and judging by the number of fuckwits on the road, the NZ standard of driving seems to have got worse; something I'd have thought was close to impossible. Judging by the frequency of poor driving, it seems that we missed the announcement of the new law making it compulsory for 4-wheeled vehicles to cut every corner they come to, with bonus points for blind bends.

The first example was not far from home on the Peninsula. We caught up with a company ute down a straight. There was another ute in front of it towing a trailer. Towards the end of the straight, the ute we were following decided to do an overtake, right before a blind bend. There most definitely would have been a serious accident had there been something coming the other way. This was no rush of blood to the head though as the dick driving it then preceded to cut every damned corner he came to, completely crossing the white line just before blind bends. My wife actually took a couple of hi-res photos (attached). This carried on until we pulled in about 10 km down the road. The truck belonged to Hamilton Roofing Industries and the Rego was GBP 91. Guess his company wouldn't be too chuffed or maybe they all drive like that. Could have been me coming the other way on the Triple....

Wasn't much better in the twisties on the Taupo-Napier road either. Just take care out there folks - they ARE all out to get you!

[Tigadee]

Maybe they were following the vehicle on their GPS screen which shows a vehicle in the middle of the road...

That is very scary.

[Blackbird]

Maybe they were following the vehicle on their GPS screen which shows a vehicle in the middle of the road...

That is very scary.

It could have been you, me or people we love coming the other way and that makes it personal! It almost seems that city folk have no idea how to tackle bends. You really notice it on the Coro Peninsula at weekends when the visitors start pouring in. Guess it's the same elsewhere.

[Daffyd]

Did you *555 him?

[steve_t]

I think Rastuscat can send him a ticket just based on these

[Blackbird]

Did you *555 him?

Nope, but it's going to be followed up...

[Rhys]

I suggest you forward the pictures to the transport service licence holder and see what their response is
Not a good look for the company !

[Blackbird]

I sagest you forward the pictures to the transport service licence holder and see what their response is
Not a good look for the company !

His company just this minute notified, sent to 2 separate email addresses on their website just to spread it round a bit :tugger: His company has responsibility for not only professional workmanship but some responsibility for the standard of his driving too, one imagines.

[FJRider]

I dont know how I ever managed to navigate the Napier-Taupo highway without GPS .... especially using one with all the bad drivers about.

It might be seen by some ... as another driver distraction ...

[Blackbird]

I dont know how I ever managed to navigate the Napier-Taupo highway without GPS .... especially using one with all the bad drivers about.

It might be seen by some ... as another driver distraction ...

Spoken like a true southern inbreed :msn-wink:

[FJRider]

Spoken like a true southern inbreed :msn-wink:

A true southern inbreed knows their way around the country, and can read a map ... and capable of reading road signage.

On my map ... near Auckland ... it has "There be Dragons here-abouts" ... (it is an old map)

[rastuscat]

Send the pics to pde964@police.govt.nz along with the vehicle description, time, date, and location.

If its still relevant on Monday when I go to work, I will follow it up.

If you've already contacted the company though, it might have negated the need for me to deal with it.

Donuts.

[slofox]

I have lost count of the number of times I have seen this stuff - either on the bike or in the wagon. Highway Cops did one this week just gone.

This is why I stay well left in a LH corner. "Hug the pole dammit - some loon is on our side of the road!"

[Blackbird]

Send the pics to pde964@police.govt.nz along with the vehicle description, time, date, and location.

If its still relevant on Monday when I go to work, I will follow it up.

If you've already contacted the company though, it might have negated the need for me to deal with it.

Donuts.

Rastus,

Although he's broken the law, just hold off for a bit if you wouldn't mind. Already had an email back from the Auckland branch saying that the vehicle and driver is based in Hamilton and they will be letting that branch know (and an apology). I replied to the guy saying that if it was straight punitive action, it probably wouldn't achieve much. Suggested that attending an advanced driving course through IAM or a commercial organisation might give a better outcome. That's not to exclude more formal action, just that we might be able to get a better result than just resentment...

Will stay in touch.

[rastuscat]

Rastus,

Although he's broken the law, just hold off for a bit if you wouldn't mind. Already had an email back from the Auckland branch saying that the vehicle and driver is based in Hamilton and they will be letting that branch know (and an apology). I replied to the guy saying that if it was straight punitive action, it probably wouldn't achieve much. Suggested that attending an advanced driving course through IAM or a commercial organisation might give a better outcome. That's not to exclude more formal action, just that we might be able to get a better result than just resentment...

Will stay in touch.

No probs.

If you can find a way to email some donuts to my work address that works too.

I'm actually really keen on alternative resolutions. A training thing would be a great result. I've been known to use that outcome myself.

Flogging works best for some.

[ellipsis]

.........


<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/vQjFCNh1s8U" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Road kill]

I see at lest a couple of these clowns every working day.
You should see the look on their faces when they see the grill of a 30-40 tonner coming and realise it ain't shifting for them.
It always seems to involve their mouths hanging open for some reason, of course that may of been the case before they see the truck anyway I guess,,,who knows.

[Katman]

Flogging works best for some.

Afuckingmen.

:eek:

[SMOKEU]

That cunt should have his license taken off him and given a huge fine.

[caseye]

No Smoke, he should first have some attempt at rehabilitation, then flogged publicly and then hung drawn and quartered.
Glad to see the actions being taken by all involved here. a few Hi res pics like these and this driver will most certainly either become a brilliantly safe driver ( assuming this happens before he/she is involved in a massive head on crash) or they'll be taken off our roads for Good!
Nice work people.

[Bald Eagle]

I vote for flogging

Sent from my MB525 using Tapatalk 2

[BMWST?]

of course motorcyclists NEVER do this

[caseye]

Silly! of course they do.
Just it's a bit a harder to get a picture of em doing it, wouldn't hesitate to send in a pic of one doing this sort of shit either. Bad behaviour is bad behaviour and sooner or later someone (usually someone else! ) is going to get hurt or worse.
Pretty blatant,don't you think?

[Road kill]

of course motorcyclists NEVER do this

All sorts of people cut corners.
It's lazy driving.

[nzspokes]

Well now this has been made public the driver will be made redundant for bringing the company into public disrepute. He will lose his income and ability to get another job. It will probably lead to the disillusion of his marriage and reduce his ability to see his children. Will lead to depression and maybe suicide.

But at least the OP gets to feel he got justice.

By the way does the GPS unit pass interior impact regulations?







Just another way to look at it......

[98tls]

Well now this has been made public the driver will be made redundant for bringing the company into public disrepute. He will lose his income and ability to get another job. It will probably lead to the disillusion of his marriage and reduce his ability to see his children. Will lead to depression and maybe suicide.

:sleep::sleep:As opposed to him killing someone with his shit driving who gives a fuck,simple really dont drive like a dickhead.I say good on the op.

[nzspokes]

:sleep::sleep:As opposed to him killing someone with his shit driving who gives a fuck,simple really dont drive like a dickhead.I say good on the op.

So you feel the punishment fits the crime? Did he kill some one?

[Madness]

Well now this has been made public the driver will be made redundant for bringing the company into public disrepute. He will lose his income and ability to get another job. It will probably lead to the disillusion of his marriage and reduce his ability to see his children. Will lead to depression and maybe suicide.

Is that what happened to you?

[SMOKEU]

So you feel the punishment fits the crime? Did he kill some one?

If YOU were coming the other way on your bike and got pwned by that n00b, what would YOU say?

[nzspokes]

Is that what happened to you?

No. But have seen something along those lines in a friend of a friend.

[nzspokes]

If YOU were coming the other way on your bike and got pwned by that n00b, what would YOU say?

I wouldnt say anything as I would be to busy shitting myself.

And in this situation nobody was hurt.

[SMOKEU]

I wouldnt say anything as I would be to busy shitting myself.

And in this situation nobody was hurt.

So is it OK if I take pot shots with a gun in a residential area, as long as no one gets hurt?

[nosebleed]

I wouldnt say anything as I would be to busy shitting myself.

And in this situation nobody was hurt.

Nobody lost their job, nor any of that other stuff either.
That was just a scenario you made up all on your own.

[nzspokes]

So is it OK if I take pot shots with a gun in a residential area, as long as no one gets hurt?

I didnt say what he was doing is not safe. Its dumb driving. My point is does the punishment fit the crime?

Would a discussion with a Police officer not have a better outcome than losing his job due to the OP getting out of hand with retribution?

[nzspokes]

Nobody lost their job, nor any of that other stuff either.
That was just a scenario you made up all on your own.

Exactly. But it is a potential outcome.

[Madness]

Exactly. But it is a potential outcome.

Just as injuring or killing an innocent road user was a potential outcome of the drivers actions. In driving a signwritten work vehicle one should accept that they are liable to have any bad driving being reported to their employers. It happens all the time without people losing their jobs, marriages and families. Stop being a drama queen.

[98tls]

Exactly. But it is a potential outcome.

I remember years back holding my 21 year old cousins hand,cold as fuck it was as she was lying on a hospital bed only alive because of the machine going up n down beside her,she was offically braindead and all because some clown not paying attention when driving knocked her off her motorcycle.The guy that hit her was beside himself with grief etc etc and his life wasnt ever going to be quite the same but compared to Julie for all intent and purpose he was a lotto winner.That said we all make mistakes eh.

[caseye]

Yes it's a scenario that could happen spokes, but as SmokeU said , does that make it OK to take pot shots in a residential area, as long as no one gets hit?
Could not have put it better myself, well done that man.
I've driven company vehicles for over thirty years, in all that time I can't recall a time I crossed a centre line without knowing I was doing it and doing it safely.
For me, having seen first hand the results of this particularly lazy form of driving, quite honestly I'd not give a damn if that is what happened to this particular driver.
Remember the Op said he had followed this person for some time and they had consistently cut almost every corner in this manner.
Please, when is enough enough?
Get the barstard off the road by any means, before it is you, not a friend of a friend who is hurt or worse killed by this sort of neanderthal driver.
I was reported by another motorist for the first time that I've ever known about, just last year,. my employer took me aside and asked me if I could recall doing anything dumb while on the road that day. I could not, I said so and that was the end of it, they trusted me to do my job properly and without causing accidents, turns out the gentleman who rang in had apparently seen me driving up a dead end residential street using my cell phone and eating lunch at the same time and he got a bit concerned in case I had driven upon the footpath and knocked down his equally elderly lady neighbour.
A grain of salt is required on all sides.
No I had not been eating my lunch using a cell phone and driving on a footpath that day, for the record.

[nzspokes]

Yes it's a scenario that could happen spokes, but as SmokeU said , does that make it OK to take pot shots in a residential area, as long as no one gets hit?
Could not have put it better myself, well done that man.
I've driven company vehicles for over thirty years, in all that time I can't recall a time I crossed a centre line without knowing I was doing it and doing it safely.
For me, having seen first hand the results of this particularly lazy form of driving, quite honestly I'd not give a damn if that is what happened to this particular driver.
Remember the Op said he had followed this person for some time and they had consistently cut almost every corner in this manner.
Please, when is enough enough?
Get the barstard off the road by any means, before it is you, not a friend of a friend who is hurt or worse killed by this sort of neanderthal driver.
I was reported by another motorist for the first time that I've ever known about, just last year,. my employer took me aside and asked me if I could recall doing anything dumb while on the road that day. I could not, I said so and that was the end of it, they trusted me to do my job properly and without causing accidents, turns out the gentleman who rang in had apparently seen me driving up a dead end residential street using my cell phone and eating lunch at the same time and he got a bit concerned in case I had driven upon the footpath and knocked down his equally elderly lady neighbour.
A grain of salt is required on all sides.
No I had not been eating my lunch using a cell phone and driving on a footpath that day, for the record.

I dont disagree with the points made. Yes the driver should be punished for his driving. Dont disagree with that. As should the guy shooting in a public place. Which is why it should be dealt with by the Police. Does it really need to be public is more my point? I would say a good number of us have had tickets for doing stupid things (wheelies, speeding etc) on the road but do we need to make it a public event?

So i guess then you all are of the opinion that the punishment fits the crime then. Fair enough then.

[98tls]

I dont disagree with the points made. Yes the driver should be punished for his driving. Dont disagree with that. As should the guy shooting in a public place. Which is why it should be dealt with by the Police. Does it really need to be public is more my point? I would say a good number of us have had tickets for doing stupid things (wheelies, speeding etc) on the road but do we need to make it a public event?

So i guess then you all are of the opinion that the punishment fits the crime then. Fair enough then.

:(Just had to mention wheelies didnt ya.I see your point fella but made public or not it may just make the guy think next time hes out driving eh,as i think every time i want to jump in the ute and head down to the shop.:rolleyes:

[Road kill]

Exactly. But it is a potential outcome.

In just the same way that his killing somebody could have a similar out come.
The problem here is that people demand justice after the fact,but seem unwilling to do or say much to stop it happening in the first place.
Almost like letting drink drivers walk because they haven't actually killed somebody yet.
I've read somewhere that drivers crossing the center line is one of our biggist killers,plus it is one of the main things I see it for myself on a regular basis while driving every day,so if somebody turns all soft cock and kills him self because he got caught doing it,then so be it.
It's probably saved somebody elses life because anybody that's that unbalanced was probably going to mess up sooner or later anyway.
The other thing is much like DIC,this type of driving is not an accident or a common mistake.
It's a direct result of simply not caring about others,so the sooner he's either off the road for good or re-educated the better.
One more thing,,,these guys see a 30 tonner coming,,they wake up an get the fuck out of the way because they know the truck can't,,,but when it's you on your bike,,tough luck mate I hope your funeral is a nice one for your familys sake,,,it won't make fuck all difference to you.
Fuck it,trhis is not about people making mistakes,we all do that,,this cunt needs to be removed from our roads because his actions are not a mistake.
Actually I'm begining to suspect he's somebody you know,,nobody else would defend his actions.

[nzspokes]

Actually I'm begining to suspect he's somebody you know,,nobody else would defend his actions.

No I dont know him. Where did I defend his driving champ?

[James Deuce]

Yes, by implication you defended his right to drive like a twat Mr Spokes.

It is with profound relief that I can sense that you've not been seriously injured and had to put up with being trapped and immobile and visited over and over by some fool who is both horrified at the ruin he has visited on another person and totally convinced that his inability to follow basic road rules doesn't in any way make him liable for what he's done to you or a mate.

Every time I've had an accident that has involved another road user, I've ended up having to prove, often from a hospital bed, that the story the other party relayed is bollocks. The hospital staff and the Police simply assume that because you were on a bike you were:

a. At fault
b. On the wrong side of the road
c. speeding
d. stupid
e. drunk or stoned.

In my case, my toxicology reports have always been the point where I've been able to put a case together. Never any alcohol in my blood, never any proscribed drugs. Not once have I been charged with dangerous or careless driving or misuse of a motor vehicle as a result of an accident, even when I could have done a shitload better at avoiding it in the first place, because the mitigating circumstances usually support my story, or in cases when I can't remember, the investigation clears me completely.

I'm sick to death of lazy driving, especially in NZ and on NZ roads. The repercussions for motorcyclists are always intense pain and lifelong complicated injuries that may not affect you that much when you're young but as you get older they contribute to an advanced rate of decay, reducing quality of life and making pain management key to successfully navigating a reduced quality of life.

If a driver is prepared to drive like that, you know that he will not ever own the outcome of his poor habits, should they intersect with another vehicle. Even if they are crushed by a B-Train and killed, the truck driver has to live with the poor decision making of the other "road users". Small-minded fuckwit more like.

I was riding back from Wellington yesterday, riding past landmarks and meeting places and thinking of all the people who are dead or so badly injured they can't ride or even work any more and they fall into two camps. Heroes who overestimated their riding abilities and victims who were mangled by people cutting corners or making stupid mistakes at intersections. I'm both, but by sheer happenstance, good fortune, and the generosity of others, am still riding.

I have no patience for the driving displayed in Geoff's photos. I don't care if these people or companies are publicly outed in an Internet forum, or whether that punishment fits the crime. It still won't get close to the punishment people like that driver visit on undeserving recipients, usually with a sense of entitlement and disbelief that anyone could possibly think they're a crap driver.

I know that it is unlikely that there will be any meaningful repercussions for these people and I personally think, after 30 years of pain and loss, that these incidents should be judged by the most extreme potential outcome with a specific set of charges and outcomes for that sentencing. If it is a company vehicle, the response from the company should always be suspension pending dismissal. That includes all forms of professional drivers, from Government employees to owner/operators. If the driver chooses the education process and pays for it, by all means rehabilitate. If they have to be "sentenced" for that to happen, that displays the type of attitude to driving that should have prevented the acquisition of a license in the first place.

[Road kill]

No I dont know him. Where did I defend his driving champ?

Ok that may of been a bit OTT,but The whole tone of your threads do defend the guy.

[Bass]

I have no patience for the driving displayed in Geoff's photos.
.

I agree with pretty much everything you say and your conviction is obvious, but that sort of crap is not limited to 4 wheels; the last 3 times I have been confronted with it, 2 of them were bikes.
Further, I'm guilty of it myself and willing to bet that most of us are. The thing is, that how dangerous it is, depends on how close to the vanishing point the driver is, before they get back on their own side of the road. If they are well back from the vanishing point, there is plenty of time to react if a vehicle appears round the bend and little danger, conversely and it's life threatening of course.
I do agree that it is lazy driving/riding, but I doubt that I have ever ridden with anyone who has not been guilty of it to some degree. Almost all fall into the "well back" category I describe above - the others I don't ride with any more. My point is that it's a judgement call and so there will be as many opinions as there are drivers. Some of those opinions are right out in La La land.
Lastly, a camera can make things look a great deal closer than they really are and create a completely false impression of the field depth. I am not saying it's the case in this instance. I wasn't there and so I don't know. I am saying that it's a factor to take into consideration.

I guess that this will be seen as defending the driver pictured. It's not.
If his actions are as portrayed, they are criminal. He won't see it like that in the least however and I'm saying that it's not always cut and dried.

I know that my opinion here will be thoroughly unpopular, so why do I bother? I do it because this forum always, repeat always, tries and hangs someone on the basis of a single accusation.
I have been in middle management for nearly 40 years and very frequently involved in dispute resolution. If it has taught me anything, it is that until you have both sides of the story, you have nothing at all. I have had several instances where it was difficult to tell that both parties were talking about the same incident and yet neither party was lying.

[James Deuce]

I didn't suggest it was limited to four wheels. I said road users. I said "that type of driving", implying road user behaviour for all road users. It isn't a judgment call to ride or drive on the wrong side of the road on a mountain or hill road with poor sight lines. It's just dumb. There is no mitigating circumstance that allows for the behaviour in Geoff's photos. None. There's no depth of field issues in that series of photos. The driver is clearly to a significant percentage on the wrong side of the road approaching blind bends.

[Bass]

I didn't suggest it was limited to four wheels. I said road users.
Quite right - I was simply pointing out that bikers are guilty of it too, since the tenor of the whole thread implied it was a 4 wheel problem

There is no mitigating circumstance that allows for the behaviour in Geoff's photos. None. There's no depth of field issues in that series of photos. The driver is clearly to a significant percentage on the wrong side of the road approaching blind bends.
It may well be that you are correct. However, it is impossible to tell from simply looking at a photo whether there is any field depth distortion or not. I have simply hundreds of photos that are apparently well out of proportion but unless you were there, you wouldn't know. Further, the photos don't show with any certainty, how far around the corner, the other driver can see.
We may indeed be looking at a really crap piece of driving, but the photos alone wouldn't convict.

[James Deuce]

Have you looked at the photos in the first post? How can you even suggest that there is any distortion or depth of field issues. He's on the wrong side of the road. I'm not discussing your photo collection. This guy needs to be sacked and charged.

[nzspokes]

Ok that may of been a bit OTT,but The whole tone of your threads do defend the guy.

Fair enough. Not at all defending him. As ive said in previous posts he should be dealt with by the police.

[Bass]

Have you looked at the photos in the first post?

Have a look at photos 2 and 3. It appears that the camera car has caught up to the ute from #2 to #3 and that the ute is closer to the corner. Now refer to the drainpipe on the left hand side of the road and the white line lines between the 2 vehicles. I believe photo 3 is an enlargement of photo 2, not a separate photo at all. Perhaps Geoff can confirm or refute?
Either way, I doubt we will ever agree.
I'm still not defending this either, especially if as Geoff stated that he overtook in this situation. That leaves no possibility of a return to the correct side of the road and is indefensible.

[nzspokes]

Have a look at photos 2 and 3. It appears that the camera car has caught up to the ute from #2 to #3 and that the ute is closer to the corner. Now refer to the drainpipe on the left hand side of the road and the white line lines between the 2 vehicles. I believe photo 3 is an enlargement of photo 2, not a separate photo at all. Perhaps Geoff can confirm or refute?
Either way, I doubt we will ever agree.

Disagree, hes clearly on the other side of the road. No matter how far ahead he can see, he shouldnt be there.

[FJRider]

And the following distances of ALL the vehicles seem typical of Auckland traffic. If somebody coming the other way was cutting the corners ... instant four car pile-up ... at the very least.

[caseye]

What he said!(Spokes that is) About the Utes position on the road and that he/she should NOT be THERE! come on I know what you are saying and 9 times out of ten I'd agree with you. But when anyone can see that a vehicle is for all intents and purposes completely on the wrong side of the road on/approaching a blind corner experience tells us that this is going to hurt.
By the way, unless signage or yellows exit to say otherwise it is not actually an offence to use/drive on the other side of the road.
Having said that, I stand by all I have said previously that in this case the law needs to be involved and his employment (if it was me would be immediately and irrevocably withdrawn) no question.
Even with all of your years in middle management and experience of disputes resolutions could you deduce anything other than the FACT that he's on completely the wrong side of the road.
In a sign written company vehicle in a winding twisting road where most if not all corners are blind.

[BMWST?]

I can't recall a time I crossed a centre line without knowing I was doing it and doing it safely.

this is the crux of it...cutting corners per se is in the same realm as overtaking.It is not automatically wrong.I will cut a corner using the same desicions as an overtaking manouvre,its not an automatic thing for me

[FJRider]

By the way, unless signage or yellows exit to say otherwise it is not actually an offence to use/drive on the other side of the road.


Failing to keep left covers it. Unless you are overtaking, with a hundred meters of clear visibility throughout the manouver ... yes it IS an offence.

Clearly ... overtaking was not the intention of any of the vehicles ... nor was there a hundred meters of clear visibility.

[george formby]

this is the crux of it...cutting corners per se is in the same realm as overtaking.It is not automatically wrong.I will cut a corner using the same desicions as an overtaking manouvre,its not an automatic thing for me

There in lies the rub. I think a lot of drivers / riders would say the same thing but for most it becomes a thoughtless habit.

I see the same thing on a daily basis up here, people cut the turn into junctions, cut corners, straighten out a series of bends etc. Unfortunately they are often the drivers who are most easily distracted, by other occupants, the stereo, the dog, the view etc. They spend too much time not looking at the road, when that combines with a lazy driving habit you get an accident situation.

I'm not pillorying you BMWST, I'm sure you are a safe, aware & considerate rider but most drivers are habitual. And they are not good habits.

[bluninja]

Failing to keep left covers it. Unless you are overtaking, with a hundred meters of clear visibility throughout the manouver ... yes it IS an offence.

Clearly ... overtaking was not the intention of any of the vehicles ... nor was there a hundred meters of clear visibility.

wow that was a shock to me...20 demerit points for Failing to keep as close as practicable to left edge of a roadway (http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/roadcode/about-driver-responsibility/stepping-over-the-line.html/)

Seems to fly in the face of face of safe riding driving practice for left hand bends and lets forget about 'offisding' as taught to police and advanced dfrivers.
I was once saved by offsiding when a 4x4 straight lined a bend. Got to see him early enough to make a judgement call to stop far right so that he couldn't collect me when he 'kissed' the inside verge where I would have been if staying left.

Note to self ...ignore stupid laws that make me unsafe as a rider....would hate to have someone overtaking me round a bend just cos I'm far over to the left as is practicable and thus riding slower as I can't see very far ahead.

[BMWST?]

wow that was a shock to me...20 demerit points for Failing to keep as close as practicable to left edge of a roadway (http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/roadcode/about-driver-responsibility/stepping-over-the-line.html/)

Seems to fly in the face of face of safe riding driving practice for left hand bends and lets forget about 'offisding' as taught to police and advanced dfrivers.
I was once saved by offsiding when a 4x4 straight lined a bend. Got to see him early enough to make a judgement call to stop far right so that he couldn't collect me when he 'kissed' the inside verge where I would have been if staying left.

Note to self ...ignore stupid laws that make me unsafe as a rider....would hate to have someone overtaking me round a bend just cos I'm far over to the left as is practicable and thus riding slower as I can't see very far ahead.

another factor,sometimes positioning yourself to the right of centre does give you a better forward view

[bluninja]

Agreed, like offsiding, you need to be able to go to the right of centre safely and have enough visibility that you can return to your own side safely (or stay parked on the other side...not recommended for the heart).

[FJRider]

wow that was a shock to me...20 demerit points for Failing to keep as close as practicable to left edge of a roadway (http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/roadcode/about-driver-responsibility/stepping-over-the-line.html/)



Note the highlighted part ... and the key to understanding it. Hugging the left-hand edge of the seal is seldom practable ...

[bluninja]

Note the highlighted part ... and the key to understanding it. Hugging the left-hand edge of the seal is seldom practable ...

Define PRACTICABLE...it doesn't on the site.....could mean anything from in the gutter to a 'normal' riding position. :bleh:

If you look at the motorcycle page (http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/roadcode/motorcycle-road-code/about-riding/keeping-left.html) you'll see a nice picture showing a motorcyclist to the far left approaching curves (admitted it's a RH..and a good position).Prior to this it says "To stay well out of the way of oncoming vehicles, always keep as close as possible to the left side of the road." Where's the word practicable disappeared to?

BTW the riding tip is "Positioning your motorcycle behind the right-hand wheels of the vehicle ahead (at the correct following distance) can make it easier to see and be seen." Talk about conflicting info on the same page.

Is there any wonder that new riders and drivers have problems with contradictory info like this?

OK back to the 4x4 driving on the rigth through the bends :eek:

[Bass]

Even with all of your years in middle management and experience of disputes resolutions could you deduce anything other than the FACT that he's on completely the wrong side of the road.
.

Not for a moment and everything else you wrote is PROBABLY correct. However, the point is whether or not what he is doing is dangerous and yes it probably is. However The road may veer right again just past the apex of the lefthander. He may be able to see the road some distance ahead. I grant you that it's not likely but it's not impossible and you can't tell for sure from any of those photos. There are several places on that road where this is the case.

I wouldn't drive with this guy but I think that you convict on insufficient evidence.

Opinions are like arseholes as they say. One thing that I CAN say for sure. If you were to fire this guy solely on the basis of the contents of this thread, the employment court would have a field day with you and you would be well out of pocket.

[blue rider]

Is bad driving compulsory?

No, it is a NZ virtue.

bad drivers teaching kids to be bad drivers teaching kids to be bad drivers, rinse repeat....ad nauseum.

[FJRider]

Define PRACTICABLE...it doesn't on the site.....could mean anything from in the gutter to a 'normal' riding position. :bleh:



Pretty simple to find the meaning ... and understand.

Prac·ti·ca·ble (prkt-k-bl)
adj.
1. Capable of being effected, done, or put into practice; feasible. See Synonyms at possible.
2. Usable for a specified purpose: a practicable way of entry.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
practi·ca·bili·ty n.
practi·ca·bly adv.
Usage Note: It is easy to confuse practicable and practical because they look so much alike and overlap in meaning. Practicable means "feasible" as well as "usable," and it cannot be applied to persons. Practical has at least eight meanings, including the sense "capable of being put into effect, useful," wherein the confusion with practicable arises. But there is a subtle distinction between these words that is worth keeping. For the purpose of ordering coffee in a Parisian café, if would be practical (that is, useful) to learn some French, but it still might not be practicable for someone with a busy schedule and little time to learn.

[SPman]

So you feel the punishment fits the crime? Did he kill some one?No - but he greatly increased the odds of something along those lines happening!
If you can't stay on your own side of the road, at whatever speed you are travelling, on a public highway, you shouldn't be f**king driving! It's not hard!
Having come around a corner and finding a (Volvo) on my side of the road,(Kawakawa Bay - Orere rd), you don't have much reaction time - and that was on a fairly open corner with moderate visibility. A blind corner gives you five eights of fuck all chance!

[FJRider]

wow that was a shock to me...20 demerit points for Failing to keep as close as practicable to left edge of a roadway (http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/roadcode/about-driver-responsibility/stepping-over-the-line.html/)

You forgot the $150 fine as well as the 20 demerits ... and if Mr Doughnuts eater decides it was dangerous, you're liable for a $4500 fine (or) 3 months in the slammer. Plus a minimum 6 month licence disqualification.

For what is lazy driving/riding ... it may have it's drawbacks ...and costs, if you're caught.


Note to self ...ignore stupid laws that make me unsafe as a rider....would hate to have someone overtaking me round a bend just cos I'm far over to the left as is practicable and thus riding slower as I can't see very far ahead.

And after making this comment ...you had to ask what practable meant. Perhaps you need to Google the word stupid ... because stupid obviously doesn't mean what you think it does.

Nowhere does it state you have to stick to the solid white line on the left of the lane.

[Blackbird]

I didnt say what he was doing is not safe. Its dumb driving. My point is does the punishment fit the crime?

Would a discussion with a Police officer not have a better outcome than losing his job due to the OP getting out of hand with retribution?

Spokes, you really are a muppet. You'll note that I am a fan of remediation. What I haven't disclosed yet is dialogue with his company so far. I've urged them to consider compulsory training for both this particular employee and maybe other members of their company too . There's precedent for this which I'm personally aware of. If it went straight to the police, I'd suggest to you that the range of options diminish somewhat. Having already said that an option where everyone gets something out of it is the preferred approach, I won't lose any sleep if the guy's company decides on a stronger response. As I said, his appalling standards continued for the whole time we were behind him. I'd suggest your views would have been rather different if he'd collected someone you love.

[bluninja]

You forgot the $150 fine as well as the 20 demerits ... and if Mr Doughnuts eater decides it was dangerous, you're liable for a $4500 fine (or) 3 months in the slammer. Plus a minimum 6 month licence disqualification.

For what is lazy driving/riding ... it may have it's drawbacks ...and costs, if you're caught. nah I'll leave the pointless extrapolation to you. I don't quite think I would suffer marriage breakup, depression, or suicide; let alone changing from not keeping left into dangerous driving. Wow I wonder what the fine would be if I failed to keep left because I was paralytic drunk?




And after making this comment ...you had to ask what practable meant. Perhaps you need to Google the word stupid ... because stupid obviously doesn't mean what you think it does.

Nowhere does it state you have to stick to the solid white line on the left of the lane.

Nor does it give simple guidelines, or descripion. Nowhere did I state that 'you have to stick' to the solid white line...there may not be one.

If you're going to be a pedant then get your spelling right. I don't know how bad your riding is, but most riders and drivers could:

Drive within 20cm of the left side of the road...(that covers 1 below)
1. Capable of being effected, done, or put into practice; feasible.

A vehicle driven close to the left side of the road is still usable for a specified purpose (meaining 2 below)
2. Usable for a specified purpose

Seems you have a poor grasp of english, even when armed with a dictionary. Why not try and describe what the word practicable means within context of driving to the left side of the road in terms that would be enforcable in law (other than it's what an officer may decide from time to time when deciding to prosecute)

[G4L4XY]

I'm just trying to figure exactly where this road is haha, more up Coromandel way?

[Blackbird]

I'm just trying to figure exactly where this road is haha, more up Coromandel way?

Just south of Whitianga through to Tairua.

[G4L4XY]

Ahh yes *sigh* I miss riding! It's only been a month :(

[rastuscat]

If everyone kept to the left of the centreline all of the time, there'd be a lot less head on crashes.

I see problems with rigid adherence to road rules, but there are some that need some more diligence.

Nobody ever thinks they're going to have a crash, so nobody ever thinks they have to change their behaviour. Ask someone who's cut a corner if it was unsafe, and they'll draw out all the justifications about how they had a great view across the bend, how they are great drivers, how they never had a crash yadda yadda yadda.

Then go see them again after they have crashed, and ask them if they knew it was going to happen before it happened. Of course they didn't, or they'd have prevented it.

If everyone kept to the left of the centreline all of the time, there'd be a lot less head on crashes.

[Blackbird]

If everyone kept to the left of the centreline all of the time, there'd be a lot less head on crashes.

I see problems with rigid adherence to road rules, but there are some that need some more diligence.

Nobody ever thinks they're going to have a crash, so nobody ever thinks they have to change their behaviour. Ask someone who's cut a corner if it was unsafe, and they'll draw out all the justifications about how they had a great view across the bend, how they are great drivers, how they never had a crash yadda yadda yadda.

Then go see them again after they have crashed, and ask them if they knew it was going to happen before it happened. Of course they didn't, or they'd have prevented it.

If everyone kept to the left of the centreline all of the time, there'd be a lot less head on crashes.

Amen to that :2thumbsup

Tomorrow, I'll be contacting the offender's company to see if anything is happening. One of my riding partners is a member of the Highway Patrol based out of Pokeno and he's filled me in on some of the possible scenarios so I feel a bit more comfortable about pushing the company along.

[Murray]

Jeez your a brave man following that close (especially in picture 3) I would certainly be dropping back rather than almost tailgating!!

[Daffyd]

If everyone kept to the left of the centreline all of the time, there'd be a lot less head on crashes.

I see problems with rigid adherence to road rules, but there are some that need some more diligence.

Nobody ever thinks they're going to have a crash, so nobody ever thinks they have to change their behaviour. Ask someone who's cut a corner if it was unsafe, and they'll draw out all the justifications about how they had a great view across the bend, how they are great drivers, how they never had a crash yadda yadda yadda.

Then go see them again after they have crashed, and ask them if they knew it was going to happen before it happened. Of course they didn't, or they'd have prevented it.

If everyone kept to the left of the centreline all of the time, there'd be a lot less head on crashes.

Completely agree! Only it should be, "A lot fewer head on crashes."

[Blackbird]

Jeez your a brave man following that close (especially in picture 3) I would certainly be dropping back rather than almost tailgating!!

Duhhhhhh.... the close-up is just a crop of one of the others :tugger:

[FJRider]

Jeez your a brave man following that close (especially in picture 3) I would certainly be dropping back rather than almost tailgating!!

It's enlarged from #2 ...

[Murray]

Duhhhhhh.... the close-up is just a crop of one of the others :tugger:

Can only see 1 & 3/4 white line markings and maybe another in front of car???

My point is I would have been giving driving like that a long, long distance ahead, if he had hit something chances are you would have been involved as well.

There are so many idiots like that on the road that I just give them a 100 mtrs or so and look after myself.

[FJRider]

Then go see them again after they have crashed, and ask them if they knew it was going to happen before it happened. Of course they didn't, or they'd have prevented it.



And then tell you how many thousand times they've done it before with no problems ... and can't understand what went wrong this time. The road was clear as far as they could see ... :crazy:

[Maha]

Is bad driving compulsory?

No, it is a NZ virtue.

bad drivers teaching kids to be bad drivers teaching kids to be bad drivers, rinse repeat....ad nauseum.

There's your answer right there.
Ute man has been driving like that since he first got behind a wheel, and will continue to do so, thats how he drives..
And I dont even know him.

[raftn]

Duhhhhhh.... the close-up is just a crop of one of the others :tugger:

You have the patience of a saint....:brick:

[Blackbird]

To conclude this tale, I've just heard from the employee's company. For privacy reasons, I won't disclose details but it's fair to say that that the outcome was a good one for all parties.

The main thing to draw from this event is that we don't have to simply grizzle about poor examples of driving and that with a bit of thought, everyone can get a win out of it (Although the offender might not see it that way immediately!)

[Maha]

To conclude this tale, I've just heard from the employee's company. For privacy reasons, I won't disclose details but it's fair to say that that the outcome was a good one for all parties.

The main thing to draw from this event is that we don't have to simply grizzle about poor examples of driving and that with a bit of thought, everyone can get a win out of it (Although the offender might not see it that way immediately!)

Anyone caught driving in that manner should be made (by law) to complete a defensive driving course.
On a side note..this ''law'' would never apply to motorcyclists, because we are all squeaky clean with our riding habits.

[Daffyd]

Anyone caught driving in that manner should be made (by law) to complete a defensive driving course.
On a side note..this ''law'' would never apply to motorcyclists, because we are all squeaky clean with our riding habits.

Do I detect a note of sarcasm? :eek5:

[Maha]

Do I detect a note of sarcasm? :eek5:

I prefer the word....clarity. ;)

[MSTRS]

We may indeed be looking at a really crap piece of driving, but the photos alone wouldn't convict.
Don't be so sure of that...


this is the crux of it...cutting corners per se is in the same realm as overtaking.It is not automatically wrong.
As above...


Failing to keep left covers it. Unless you are overtaking, with a hundred meters of clear visibility throughout the manouver ... yes it IS an offence.

Clearly ... overtaking was not the intention of any of the vehicles ... nor was there a hundred meters of clear visibility.
Exactly.


Periodically, cops will run 'sting' operations, where they set up a video or still camera overlooking a (set of) corner/s. The photos are used if the miscreant tries to deny or defend in court.
Unless one is swinging wide to avoid debris (say) in one's lane, there is NO excuse for crossing the centreline in a corner.

[FJRider]

... Unless one is swinging wide to avoid debris (say) in one's lane, there is NO excuse for crossing the centreline in a corner.

To follow on from this ... "Swinging wide" to avoid debris (or a stationary vehicle) may be a reason/excuse for being on the wrong side of the road ... It is NO defence if you hit another vehicle while you are over there.

Even if you were "there first" ... or the old "But ... I had to, to avoid the rock in the middle of road" ... excuse is used .... It is NOT valid defence argument.

I have never actually heard of a valid defence arguement for hitting anything ... whilst on the wrong side of the road. I would be keen to hear one.

[Road kill]

To follow on from this ... "Swinging wide" to avoid debris (or a stationary vehicle) may be a reason/excuse for being on the wrong side of the road ... It is NO defence if you hit another vehicle while you are over there.

Even if you were "there first" ... or the old "But ... I had to, to avoid the rock in the middle of road" ... excuse is used .... It is NOT valid defence argument.

I have never actually heard of a valid defence arguement for hitting anything ... whilst on the wrong side of the road. I would be keen to hear one.

A white car cut me off,,,he's gone now.
A dog ran out in front of me,,,he's also gone now.
Now you can tell me something,,,,why is it always either a white car or a dog ?
Do these people have something against white cars an dogs,,,or just no imagination ?
Sorry,,it was in a different life,,you had to be there.:brick:

[BMWST?]

If everyone kept to the left of the centreline all of the time, there'd be a lot less head on crashes.

I see problems with rigid adherence to road rules, but there are some that need some more diligence.

Nobody ever thinks they're going to have a crash, so nobody ever thinks they have to change their behaviour. Ask someone who's cut a corner if it was unsafe, and they'll draw out all the justifications about how they had a great view across the bend, how they are great drivers, how they never had a crash yadda yadda yadda.

Then go see them again after they have crashed, and ask them if they knew it was going to happen before it happened. Of course they didn't, or they'd have prevented it.

If everyone kept to the left of the centreline all of the time, there'd be a lot less head on crashes.

so you never cross the centreline to complete an overtaking manouvre?Whats the difference?

[FJRider]

A white car cut me off,,,he's gone now.
A dog ran out in front of me,,,he's also gone now.
Now you can tell me something,,,,why is it always either a white car or a dog ?
Do these people have something against white cars an dogs,,,or just no imagination ?

Anything excuse/story ... except ... "IT WAS MY FAULT"


Sorry,,it was in a different life,,you had to be there.:brick:

I'm glad I wasn't ...

[FJRider]

so you never cross the centreline to complete an overtaking manouvre?Whats the difference?

I usually cross the centerline to START an overtaking manouvre :cool: ... you wellytown guys do it must do it differently to everybody else ... :crazy: