You must be FKN joking

[mikeey01]

Water rights put first

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/7377823/Tribunal-recommends-assets-sale-halt

So who owns the water? according to some Maori, maori do.
I must be a half wit, or a complete fk wit cause I thought the stuff fell from the sky.

[Katman]

Donna Hall is just "very happy" that her gravy train is chugging along nicely.

[flyingcrocodile46]

Make them accountable for all the flood damages 'their' water is causing.

[mikeey01]

Make them accountable

"them" and "us" is not a good statement anyone can say, hone dip shite racist mofu Ha ra wi ra say that but me thinks it's just fuel to the fire, not going there.

Ownership of water....
You collect rain water in a tank........
Build a bigger tank (say a pond) and collect rain water and snow melt.......
Build a dam and collect a lot more rain water and snow melt........
Now some claim ownerhip. WTF is up with that?
So who owns the water me dehumide thingie collects then?

Geothermal....
How can anyone lay claim to that?


Surely it's a joke, it must be..... or perhaps simple poltics "Devide and conquer"?


Is it only me that thinks this is going too far?

[Bald Eagle]

Water .. definitely time for the Waitangi gravey trainers to Build A Bridge and get the fck over it

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[Winston001]

Ownership of water....
You collect rain water in a tank........
Build a bigger tank (say a pond) and collect rain water and snow melt.......
Build a dam and collect a lot more rain water and snow melt........





Well...YES. You own it. How do you think water tankers operate - by renting the water they deliver??

[neels]

Well...YES. You own it. How do you think water tankers operate - by renting the water they deliver??
No, by charging for the service of delivering it.

Much the same as the council charging to take your shit away from your house, pretty sure they have no interest in ownership rights there either.

Perhaps people should start sending Hone some of that water, if it got delivered it would save him from taking the piss.

[SMOKEU]

For once I hope the Maoris get their way. Better than having that jew sell us out.

[Winston001]

Water rights put first

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/7377823/Tribunal-recommends-assets-sale-halt

So who owns the water? according to some Maori, maori do.
I must be a half wit, or a complete fk wit cause I thought the stuff fell from the sky.

There is a distinct difference beween owning a "water right" and owning "water".

It is absurdly easy to own water. You can collect it, bottle it, and sell it. Check out your local dairy.

However that is not the issue here - and John Key is at fault for making it seem about owning water. Instead the Waitangi claim is about water rights.

The argument is that some Maori tribes in some places (not everywhere) have traditional rights to draw and use water from springs, streams, and rivers. In one case the local council undermined the spring and grabbed the water.

Now you and I do not have to like that argument - no problem. But lets have a rational debate. Water rights are a big deal all over the world and certainly here in the dryer parts of NZ. Serious money goes into claiming and protecting water rights - its a Pakeha concept. Maori are just a bit late to the party.

[Madness]

No, by charging for the service of delivering it.

Depending on where you are the delivery company has to pay for the water itself so technically they're selling you water & charging a delivery fee. Having grown up in Wellington where fresh water is seemingly abundant it was a shock when I moved to Auckland to be confronted with regular water bills based on usage :gob:

[mashman]

Make them accountable for all the flood damages 'their' water is causing.

Now now... water comes from the clouds first. Who owns the air space?

[Bald Eagle]

Now now... water comes from the clouds first. Who owns the air space?

I think the maori have a claim in for the air waves. so i guess they do :-( rofl

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[HenryDorsetCase]

Donna Hall is just "very happy" that her gravy train is chugging along nicely.

my biggest issue with legal aid? that it is used to fund these Waitangi Tribunal applications and processes. It sucks up MILLIONS of dollars, and pollies point to it and go "Oooooh lawyers are rorting the system": Not really.

Sure, fund indigent mari tribes to claim stuff from the mythical taxpayer. (i.e. you and me) but vote it out of the maori affaris budget, not legal aid.

Disclaimer: I do not now, nor have I ever, done legal aid work.

[HenryDorsetCase]

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not for long, if the moari have their way.

[HenryDorsetCase]

No, by charging for the service of delivering it.

Much the same as the council charging to take your shit away from your house, pretty sure they have no interest in ownership rights there either.

Perhaps people should start sending Hone some of that water, if it got delivered it would save him from taking the piss.

think of it like a bottle of Stella: they give you free beer, but they rent you the bottle. Plus when you have filtered it thru your kidneys, thus adding much needed taste and flavour, it goes striaght to their local bottling factory where they refill, and rent you another bottle.

[Road kill]

Not really so much about who owns the water.
It's more about who profits from the use of water.
At the moment the only people doing that are gov't backed big bussiness,,,under the guise of "we all own it".:lol:
Well I guess some Iwi have decided that they had an agreement to share in this type of thing but the gov't has not up held their end of the deal,,,,so.
Maori don't want the water,what they really want is their share of the profits made off it,but they know the NZ gov'ts of today "and the NZ people" are no more honest now than they were way back when,so their just using a slightly different tact to stop the current Gov't from cutting them out of the deal yet again.
After all,a deal is a deal,,,right?
The funny thing to me is that nobody I know makes anything from the water used to provide power ect today,,,and no matter what happens that probably won't change.
So how about you ?
Making lots of money from the water based utilities that you currently own and that the gov't it currently planing on selling back to you,,,even though you already own them.
I hope so,because if you are you can flick me a couple of G to help me pay for the extra shares in your utilities that you currently already own but can't afford to buy so the gov't is going to tax me because I can't afford to buy some of the shares in my own utilities so I don't get any extras for free that will be paid for with my taxes,,,like you will.
Are we having fun yet ?

[HenryDorsetCase]

In christchurch we have fantastic water supplied by the city and paid for by our rates. No separate charges for residences. Businesses pay.

in auckland they have a private company that levies you separately, and the water is undrinkable from the tap. go figure

[oldrider]

It's only a claim FFS, we all have the same rights to make a fecking claim! ... Doesn't mean it will be validated and made law! :oi-grr:

Must say I don't think that the taxpayer should pay for the privilege of letting them be heard though! :wacko:

I would be more worried that some Maori don't honour the treaty and carry on with all that Kingitanga bullshit!

[mikeey01]

Not really so much about who owns the water.
It's more about who profits from the use of water.
At the moment the only people doing that are gov't backed big bussiness,,,under the guise of "we all own it".:lol:
Well I guess some Iwi have decided that they had an agreement to share in this type of thing but the gov't has not up held their end of the deal,,,,so.
Maori don't want the water,what they really want is their share of the profits made off it,but they know the NZ gov'ts of today "and the NZ people" are no more honest now than they were way back when,so their just using a slightly different tact to stop the current Gov't from cutting them out of the deal yet again.
After all,a deal is a deal,,,right?
The funny thing to me is that nobody I know makes anything from the water used to provide power ect today,,,and no matter what happens that probably won't change.
So how about you ?
Making lots of money from the water based utilities that you currently own and that the gov't it currently planing on selling back to you,,,even though you already own them.
I hope so,because if you are you can flick me a couple of G to help me pay for the extra shares in your utilities that you currently already own but can't afford to buy so the gov't is going to tax me because I can't afford to buy some of the shares in my own utilities so I don't get any extras for free that will be paid for with my taxes,,,like you will.
Are we having fun yet ?

You sir have hit the nail on the head and it certainly is and only all about the money, funny how things become clearer.

I agree, yes we already own the power generators, dams, channels, pole lines, grid stations, transformers right up to the meter thats on your property.
Like you our past generations have paid for it and we continue to pay for it to this day, way back then a loan of the day or today in taxes.

Now you say
"It's more about who profits from the use of water. At the moment the only people doing that are gov't backed big bussiness,,,under the guise of "we all own it"
Okay so does this mean that if I use the water and I make a profit from said water, should I now pay for the said use or share profits?

So water is water and a hydro generator uses it in mere flow force only, it does not deminish it in any way, it does not take anything from it. It's energy actually comes from gravity.
This is much the same as a wind turbine uses the wind to turn a turbine blade, it uses it, perhaps disturbs it, but does not deminish it in any way.
Does this still mean they should have to pay? after all, what actually has the usage been in consumption? Should we use litres or gallons as a unit of measurement?

Again I ask, who really has the rights to and or owns the water that actually falls from the sky and melts off the mountains?
Could we agree that some business ueses oxygen to make profit from, but this we all need for survival, much like water, stop drinking and your dead in 3 days max.

I hear the arguement but fail to comprehend the rational behind said arguement, especially when it comes to taking profits and most certainly when your talking about infastructure such as power generation.



Future options....
- Bottled water
- Beer (locally produced) locally brewed, bottled and exported product must be massive, I'm certain it far out weighs NZ consumption (honestly I'm trying to drink more and change that)
- Soft drinks (locally produced) I wonder how much is bottled in NZ that set for international export useing free water.

[Tigadee]

Do I have to pay for the rainwater in that little bucket my kids left in the garden?

With the water rates going up, can anyone tell me if I need any sort of consent or permit to have a tank on my residential premises to collect rainwater?

[Swoop]

Do I have to pay for the rainwater in that little bucket my kids left in the garden?

With the water rates going up, can anyone tell me if I need any sort of consent or permit to have a tank on my residential premises to collect rainwater?
I presume you are referring to smaller collection systems? OR are you thinking of getting a LARGE collector tank of some sort?

I have two barrels plumbed into the downpipe from the roof. Great for watering the garden in summer.
Don't involve the council, just get on with it (best method from previous and current experience...:crazy:).

[Tigadee]

I presume you are referring to smaller collection systems? OR are you thinking of getting a LARGE collector tank of some sort?

I guess a couple of barrels are small systems? And a tank is large? Is council involved with the large only? Or do they poke their noses into any?


I have two barrels plumbed into the downpipe from the roof. Great for watering the garden in summer.
Don't involve the council, just get on with it (best method from previous and current experience...).

OK... :whistle:

[tuirider]

Water rights put first

I must be a half wit, or a complete fk wit cause I thought the stuff fell from the sky.

Be glad you don't live in Oregon, USA:

http://www.naturalnews.com/036615_Oregon_rainwater_permaculture.html

[HenryDorsetCase]

I guess a couple of barrels are small systems? And a tank is large? Is council involved with the large only? Or do they poke their noses into any?



OK... :whistle:

we looked at one that was 800l last summer.

We've got a couple of 220l drums plumbed into the downpipes as well. :)

[Ocean1]

There is a distinct difference beween owning a "water right" and owning "water".

The concept of water rights isn't a Pakaha invention, it goes back as far as the concept of a "hydraulic monopoly" which is older than recorded history. Water rights prevent the up-stream neighbors diverting river water for their own exclusive use. In other words they shouldn't use their ownership or control of the land to deny downstream inhabitants the use of river water.

As far as I'm aware nobody is deprived of water by the existing hydro schemes. So, now, why would Maori want exclusive rights over water if not to deny others the free use of it?

[Ocean1]

I presume you are referring to smaller collection systems? OR are you thinking of getting a LARGE collector tank of some sort?

I have two barrels plumbed into the downpipe from the roof. Great for watering the garden in summer.
Don't involve the council, just get on with it (best method from previous and current experience...:crazy:).

I've got several hundred tones of water stored on my property. Thing is it's presence there isn't denying anyone of a water supply. Conversely, it's supplying me and several neighbors with firefighting reserves the council sees fit not to make available, in spite of rates demands far in excess of properties so supplied.


I keep saying it: Fuck'em.

[jasonu]

Water .. definitely time for the Waitangi gravey trainers to Build A Bridge and get the fck over it

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or preferably in it...

[Brett]

It is amazing how polarising the asset sales argument has become. I don't recall too many things getting so hot under the collar about a political topic in the 20 years I have been in NZ.

[Road kill]

Do I have to pay for the rainwater in that little bucket my kids left in the garden?

With the water rates going up, can anyone tell me if I need any sort of consent or permit to have a tank on my residential premises to collect rainwater?

Yeah in some towns you do need a permit to install a rain water collection tank.
I just put the bloody thing in an the council can bite my shiny metal arse.

[Road kill]

The concept of water rights isn't a Pakaha invention, it goes back as far as the concept of a "hydraulic monopoly" which is older than recorded history. Water rights prevent the up-stream neighbors diverting river water for their own exclusive use. In other words they shouldn't use their ownership or control of the land to deny downstream inhabitants the use of river water.

As far as I'm aware nobody is deprived of water by the existing hydro schemes. So, now, why would Maori want exclusive rights over water if not to deny others the free use of it?

Please show us where any Maori have claimed "exclusive rights" to water.
Not going to happen is it ?

[Ocean1]

Please show us where any Maori have claimed "exclusive rights" to water.
Not going to happen is it ?

Can't be fucked. Check through stuff a couple of weeks ago if it really worries you.

And no, I don't think so. The point is; why would any group demand better rights than are already afforded every member of the NZ public unless it was to exclude free access to another group. Do you seriously believe that, if successful they wouldn't charge energy companies for the use of it?

So, again: who's trying to deny access to whom?

[Swoop]

I guess a couple of barrels are small systems? And a tank is large? Is council involved with the large only? Or do they poke their noses into any?



OK... :whistle:
Found this (http://www.aucklandcity.govt.nz/council/documents/rainwatertanks/docs/rainwatertanks.pdf) document.
Council appears keen to stick their nose in for larger water collection tanks but adding a [few?] small tanks seems OK.

Mine are 44Gal drum size (220Lt) sourced from Barry's Barrels. http://www.bb.net.nz/

[ducatilover]

I'm going to piss in the river every day from now on, just because.

We aren't on town water, so I'm not worried in the least.

[Berries]

Oh dear. We have a couple of 20,000 litre tanks under the house and are currently plumbing in another 10,000 litre jobbie. Who do I make the cheque out to?

[Brian d marge]

Water rights put first

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/7377823/Tribunal-recommends-assets-sale-halt

So who owns the water? according to some Maori, maori do.
I must be a half wit, or a complete fk wit cause I thought the stuff fell from the sky.

Dont laugh , when it came to Bolivia , the French water company ( from memory ) said just that , they had the rights to all the water ,,,,even the stuff from the sky

Could happen

Stephen

[SMOKEU]

Oh dear. We have a couple of 20,000 litre tanks under the house and are currently plumbing in another 10,000 litre jobbie. Who do I make the cheque out to?

I'll paint my face black and call myself Tahu, then you can address the cheque to me.