Real estate price lists?

[imdying]

Can anybody tell me why real estate listings now rarely have a price on them?

[neels]

Particularly in chch at the moment, sellers are hoping some desperate red zone escapee will make a stupidly high offer, in general they don't want to set a price lower than the fantasy they have in their head about what their house is worth.

If you're serious, most agents will let you in on what the seller wants, if they think it's going to speed up their commission arriving in their bank account.

[Winston001]

Neels has nailed it.

You see this happening when there is a real estate boom or a bust - but not in a stable market.

In a boom sellers think their house is worth big gold and agents are scared to insist on a price in case they lose the listing. In a recession sellers still think their house is exceptional and struggle to accept reality so again the agent has to try to get the listing and see who comes out of the woodwork.

I intensely dislike the POA and price band marketing. Everything I've ever read and seen about real estate says you should state your price up front.

[MisterD]

I intensely dislike the POA and price band marketing. Everything I've ever read and seen about real estate says you should state your price up front.

It's been the way in Auckland the whole time I've been in the country. Nothing* fucks me off more than going to an open home and asking the agent how much a house is likely to go for, only to be asked what I think it's worth. Who's supposed to be the fucking expert in this conversation?


*probably a bit of a stretch.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Can anybody tell me why real estate listings now rarely have a price on them?

because its worth what someone will pay. And some of the prices I have seen are outlandish. As a general guide West of Hagley park (so TC2 or TC1, light damage, free redecoration and yard/drive repair by EQC) it will sell in a week, and for more than 2007 GV: say 110% of that.

east of the park it entirely depends on the property/TC/level of damage but stuff still does sell, albeit at a discount.

redzone: easy: get your offer from the insurer, do the sums, work out if option 1, 2a or 2b, sorted.

The fun ones are mortgagee sales (pay LV only) and anything in TC3.

I do this shit for a living: PM me any questions or whatever

[HenryDorsetCase]

It's been the way in Auckland the whole time I've been in the country. Nothing* fucks me off more than going to an open home and asking the agent how much a house is likely to go for, only to be asked what I think it's worth. Who's supposed to be the fucking expert in this conversation?


*probably a bit of a stretch.

always always look at the RV first and say it is worth 80% of that. Fuck the agents.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Neels has nailed it.

You see this happening when there is a real estate boom or a bust - but not in a stable market.

In a boom sellers think their house is worth big gold and agents are scared to insist on a price in case they lose the listing. In a recession sellers still think their house is exceptional and struggle to accept reality so again the agent has to try to get the listing and see who comes out of the woodwork.

I intensely dislike the POA and price band marketing. Everything I've ever read and seen about real estate says you should state your price up front.

Yeppers.

But of course the entire system of buying and selling real estate in this country is ENTIRELY set up to benefit real estate agents. Not buyers or sellers. Yes I am serious. Yes I can attest to it from experience.

Not all agents are criminal scum: I've struck three or four good ones in twenty odd years.

[george formby]

Yeppers.

But of course the entire system of buying and selling real estate in this country is ENTIRELY set up to benefit real estate agents. Not buyers or sellers. Yes I am serious. Yes I can attest to it from experience.

Not all agents are criminal scum: I've struck three or four good ones in twenty odd years.

:brick: I'm on the merry go round at the moment, selling one, buying another. The agents are as much use as chocolate fire guards.

What makes the difference in value between the GV & the QV which our rates are based on? Market value? If that's the case then yup, it is really set up for the agents....

[Jantar]

If an indicative price is not listed then I won't look at it any further. Similarly, if the agent lists it at "offers over $xxx,xxx" then they had better be prepared to pass on an offer at $xxx,xxy.

[neels]

always always look at the RV first and say it is worth 80% of that. Fuck the agents.
That's always been my theory if they want me to come up with a price, point out all the things wrong with the place, then give them a silly low number and see if they bite.

Or just ask straight out what the sellers want, on the basis that there's no point talking to the bank if it's not going to fly, if they won't front up head for the door.


But of course the entire system of buying and selling real estate in this country is ENTIRELY set up to benefit real estate agents.
The agent that sold us our current house was a happy boy, probably around $20k commission for listing it on Thursday, selling it on Friday.

[imdying]

because its worth what someone will pay. And some of the prices I have seen are outlandish. As a general guide West of Hagley park (so TC2 or TC1, light damage, free redecoration and yard/drive repair by EQC) it will sell in a week, and for more than 2007 GV: say 110% of that.

east of the park it entirely depends on the property/TC/level of damage but stuff still does sell, albeit at a discount.

redzone: easy: get your offer from the insurer, do the sums, work out if option 1, 2a or 2b, sorted.

The fun ones are mortgagee sales (pay LV only) and anything in TC3.

I do this shit for a living: PM me any questions or whatever

Yeah, I might do. I'm interested in moving somewhere comfier, but there's thousands of houses for sale, and I've no idea if they're in my ballpark :weep:

[mashman]

Some friends of ours where Estate Agents... I say where because once the recession bit they couldn't afford to be any more. They had to pay a "fee" of 5k per month each. I assume it was something to do with using someone else's brand? Either way I can understand why they charge like wounded bulls (to a degree)... as mentioned though, you will pay what you think a "fair" value is for anything, why not a house.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Some friends of ours where Estate Agents... I say where because once the recession bit they couldn't afford to be any more. They had to pay a "fee" of 5k per month each. I assume it was something to do with using someone else's brand? Either way I can understand why they charge like wounded bulls (to a degree)... as mentioned though, you will pay what you think a "fair" value is for anything, why not a house.

there's a lot of different deals around but the typical one involves a fee structure of 3.95% + "admin fee" plus GST: would see the house taking the admin fee, and the comm split 60/40 but maybe 70/30 or 50/50 depending on the agent, their clients and volume etc.

When I started the fee was 3.25% + GST and houses were alot cheaper. It went to 3.5 then 3.75 then 3.95 by stealth. Legal fees largely remained static in this timeframe. No wonder their gurning faces are all over the backs of buses and on signboards etc. No wonder in the ad for YOUR house THEIR photo is larger and more prominent than the house.

I have paid one personal real estate comm in my life. 3% flat no admin plus GST. (in 1998) ;D ;D

[SMOKEU]

Some friends of ours where Estate Agents... I say where because once the recession bit they couldn't afford to be any more.

"were", not "where".

[Brian d marge]

I have always wonder why on tard me its , by negotiation ....

and it seems to me that an inflated house price is only benefiting the agents and the seller ....

Stephene

[Maha]

:brick: I'm on the merry go round at the moment, selling one, buying another. The agents are as much use as chocolate fire guards.

What makes the difference in value between the GV & the QV which our rates are based on? Market value? If that's the case then yup, it is really set up for the agents....

If we were to market our house with an agent, we would possibly come away with $40K less than their reccommended listing price.
Our house is for sale...I paid $80 to get a sign made...fingers crossed for this time tomorrow...:2thumbsup

[Brett]

always always look at the RV first and say it is worth 80% of that. Fuck the agents.

Good advice IMO.

[Maha]

Good advice IMO.

For a buyer yes, not the seller.
If someone really wants a house, the two parties will negotiate until both are happy.
Any offer is just the starting point, both buyer and seller know that.

[F5 Dave]

The Real Estate agent will list as offers over $## but have told the seller he should get over, heck lets put numbers on it for a laugh.

Say they say, oh you'll get 400k to the buyer to win the contract. They don't think they will get that but it gets the work in. Then they try extract as much as they can for advertising (themselves) in owned mags or for kickbacks whilst beginning to crunch the seller by saying "Market value this & that" but surely that meant that they were incompetent in the first 'valuation'.

So they then tell the seller that they put on 'offers over $320k', seller protests, but that is only 'to attract more attn'. But only attracting people in that price range yet simultaneously wasting everybodies time.

Eventually the seller runs out of advert money & the agent thinks its time to cut this puppy loose & relying on good luck may stumble into some sap who can summon almost near what it is worth & can crunch the seller down (more "Market forces") & move on to the next 'mark'.

My advice to a seller is free valuations are less than worthless. Much less. Pay $5hundy or whatever to a registered valuer telling them you want to sell & use that document to set your price (with a modest negotiation fudge) & marketing by showing the buyer what they should pay you. The haggling begins, but in a sensible ballpark.

Have a lawyer set up to do the legal stuff (std Auckland District law soc form). Nice sign made as Maha has hopefully done & a few home made this way private sale signs near suburb turn offs.


If you're buying; Sorry mate - its hell. Good luck & don't be afraid to be heinously rude to the muppets. it won't help but it will make you feel a bit better in the ensuing months. can I also suggest drinking heavily.

[HenryDorsetCase]

. can I also suggest drinking heavily.

When is that not a good idea? I often do it prior to driving and always before operating heavy machinery.

[Brian d marge]

When is that not a good idea? I often do it prior to driving and always before operating heavy machinery.

I always do it before a session on kb

Stephen

[short-circuit]

I always do it before a session on kb

Stephen

yeah we know

[BigB]

My 2 cents worth

18 months ago decided to sell (Onehunga near Mt Smart Stadium)

Had the agent come round that'll be approx $18k for a house value over $400k

Had QV value the house which was a waste of money as we picked up ten mistakes & when I complained she sent me the word doc to correct!!! anyway she valued it at $430k same as GV. I had researched the area and thought it was worth $450-$460k. I listed for $465k

We went though 'Home Sell' only because I couldn't be ased with the sign & photos, total cost $1200. They list on there own site & trademe, had a number of phone calls prior to the first open home all from people who had seen it on trademe. Anyway had 2 offers on the first open home then by request picked up an older couple for a private viewing & they offered $462k which I greatfully accepted. All told took 2 days to sell, yes this is an exception but I would do again myself no worries.

cheers

[HenryDorsetCase]

My 2 cents worth

18 months ago decided to sell (Onehunga near Mt Smart Stadium)

Had the agent come round that'll be approx $18k for a house value over $400k

Had QV value the house which was a waste of money as we picked up ten mistakes & when I complained she sent me the word doc to correct!!! anyway she valued it at $430k same as GV. I had researched the area and thought it was worth $450-$460k. I listed for $465k

We went though 'Home Sell' only because I couldn't be ased with the sign & photos, total cost $1200. They list on there own site & trademe, had a number of phone calls prior to the first open home all from people who had seen it on trademe. Anyway had 2 offers on the first open home then by request picked up an older couple for a private viewing & they offered $462k which I greatfully accepted. All told took 2 days to sell, yes this is an exception but I would do again myself no worries.

cheers

more people should. Its not that hard and if you tee up your lawyer and stuff first, it should be straightforward.

[Bald Eagle]

Stay away from agents unless you know an honest one :rofl: . Last house I sold 1st agent recommended by friend tried to get us to list it lower than we wanted. Took the listing at our price, did jack all. A mate asked him 'off the record' what it was likely to sell for and he told him 30k less than the listing.

We eventually kicked him in to touch and got a new agent, fresh valuation and sold in 7 days at our original price. Found out later the original agent had previous complaints upheld against him by the REINZ, but was still practicing although in a different city.

[mashman]

there's a lot of different deals around but the typical one involves a fee structure of 3.95% + "admin fee" plus GST: would see the house taking the admin fee, and the comm split 60/40 but maybe 70/30 or 50/50 depending on the agent, their clients and volume etc.

When I started the fee was 3.25% + GST and houses were alot cheaper. It went to 3.5 then 3.75 then 3.95 by stealth. Legal fees largely remained static in this timeframe. No wonder their gurning faces are all over the backs of buses and on signboards etc. No wonder in the ad for YOUR house THEIR photo is larger and more prominent than the house.

I have paid one personal real estate comm in my life. 3% flat no admin plus GST. (in 1998) ;D ;D

Were I came from estate agents where on a flat rate. I assume that has something to do with their being CGT (prolly not though) on the proceeds of the sale, but the system seems really quite different. I guess the prices are hardly surprising given the fees, multiple commission chomps and the owners "needing" to cover all of their costs... I suppose individual house prices have to rise each time they change hands and as you mention, we will pay what we believe the place is worth.

We keep hearing that certain agents aren't allowed to sell houses in particular areas because other agents from the same firm are "given" exclusive rights to the area... farkin madness.


"were", not "where".

Nazi.

[Road kill]

When we came back from Oz we were looking to buy pretty much anywhere but prfered the far north so we contacted some agents up there.
What followed was 4 six hour drives up there to look at properties the agent had given us an exact price on.
We agreed on the asking price on several places only to have the owner bung another 10 grand on every one of them.
After having enough of that shit we said "fuck it" and bought a place in Tokoroa that was advertised on TM by the owner "no fucking agents involved".
The interesting thing was that I ended up driving for work from AK to Kaitia every Thursday and retuning on the Friday,,,so one day I went past one of the places we'd looked at a couple of months before so I stopped in for a chat.
Turns out "they" had not been the one that had bunged another 10 G on the place,,,that was the agents idea because apparently we were "keen to buy".
Fucking little rope head cunt,I dream of the day I meet that prick in the right place an the wrong time for him again.

[neels]

Turns out "they" had not been the one that had bunged another 10 G on the place,,,that was the agents idea because apparently we were "keen to buy".
The last 2 houses we've bought, we told the agent that the offer was the offer, and they came back with a higher counter offer saying the 'seller' wanted more.

Both times we told them we'd made our offer, if it wasn't enough forget it and we'd keep looking. Strangely enough the 'seller' agreed to the original offer when the agent took it back again, despite us pointing out that it was a waste of time as they'd already said no.

Our current house we bought for 10k less than asking, in Christchurch, I guess a marriage breakup encourages a quick sale at the price you're offering.

[Ocean1]

I intensely dislike the POA and price band marketing.

When faced with that tactic I make it very clear that in order to sell me anything a vendor has just one shot: tell me the bottom line, tell me now or I walk away. The only times I've had to walk they've called me within a couple of days.

First rule of negotiation: Never be the first to name the price.

[Road kill]

For a buyer yes, not the seller.
If someone really wants a house, the two parties will negotiate until both are happy.
Any offer is just the starting point, both buyer and seller know that.

How do you work that out ?
Our first home was on the market at $40,000 an that's what we paid.
When we sold it we asked $65,000 and that's what we sold it for.
When we bought #2 they were asking $125,000 and that's what we paid.
Selling it we asked $150,000 and that's what it sold for.
Current home,asking $98,000 and that's what we paid.
I know we're a bit behind the times now,but I think people today are simply less honest and a shit load more deceitful than they were when we were in the market.
Frankly I think most people today are simply living in the shit world they've created for themselves.
Glad we're out of it.

[Hitcher]

The main reason is that real estate agents have got lazy.

Gone are the days when they had to work for a sale. Now most of the properties they sell are sold by auction or tender. This means that they only have to deal with cash buyers. Gone are the days of conditional sales when agents had to sweat on a daisy chain of related sale and purchase agreements.

Agents generally don't put values on properties because they aren't prepared to do the work to figure out what these properties are worth. But they still demand massive commissions that are based on the sale price of the property rather than the actual work they do. All of the "marketing" costs are borne by the vendor. Call me old fashioned but I don't think that that is fair or reasonable.

Dishonesty is rampant. Agents win business by overpromising. When they can't deliver a sale, it's the vendor's problem and up to them to reduce the asking price.

Property developers are even worse. But that's another rant entirely.

[Mom]

The market will determine the value of any property, that is a given. It takes a bit of work to actually stay in touch with the market, it probably costs a bit too. Schmoozing is always expensive, but so tax deductable :blip:

Most agents are too scared to be honest with their vendors (you are expecting too much), or worse are greedy enough to put an unrealistic price on a property to get a listing, knowing full well they are going to pitch it to a much lower paying market.

Going to auction will at least qualify any prospecive buyers accurately.

We are going through the motions at the moment, and have been really surprised at the standard of the agents we have met. No wonder they are all going hungry is all I can say...

[spanner spinner]

Easy fix for all this agravation, sell the bloody house yourself. It's easier than you think, talk to your lawyer to set up the paperwork then advertise it. If you do your advertising right people looking for a house will see it and come calling. We sold our place in auckland ourself can't see why an agent gets paid so much it was easier than selling motorbikes, there's even less paperwork.
I have also come across several useless agents, most seem to be either lazy or thick. There is the odd good one out there but they seem to be the exception. Bought the last two houses despite the agent all they did was stuff us around, they also knew nothing about the house they were selling except the address.
Yes no advertised price is all about lining the agents pocket, hoping for a silly offer so they get more commission. All it does piss me off and I won't even look at a house that I can't get a price for.
If you really want to piss the agent off and make them do some work offer $1 for your next house if they won't give you a price. Legally have to present all offers, they will tell you that they don't have to present our offer but they do! Make sure that you write on the offer that this is a start point your interested in the house and you want a counter offer from the seller, you usually then get a realistic price back.

[Brian d marge]

Frankly I think most people today are simply living in the shit world they've created for themselves.
Glad we're out of it.
that is more true than you realise !!!
Could it could be worse , i could have been married .....:doh:

Stephen

[avgas]

I am just quite blunt (and a little rude) with agents now.

Usually I find a house I am interested in, email agent "How much do they want for it?"

No response = fuck you, I will go elsewhere

"We are looking for market indication" = they get the following reply "CV of this property is $XXXXXX I am offering more than this, what do they want? Or should I go elsewhere?"

"The CV is $XXXX they are looking in $XXXX's" = my reply "Great, I will offer $X".........which is eventually negotiated to a middle ground.

However I do like the ones that respond:
"While the CV is only $XXXX, a recent valuation says the property is in the high $XXXXXX. Market feedback also corresponds that this value is accurate"
to which I reply
"That is a shame, looks like this market with its big fat cash settlement will have to look elsewhere where people are not dreaming - out of interest, how many offers in dreamland end in cash? Perhaps your market feedback is poorly done?"

[Jantar]

......
Going to auction will at least qualify any prospecive buyers accurately.......

This is something that agents will tell you, but auctions actually eliminate most potential buyers before they even start. I have never attended an auction when looking at property, and unlikely to do so in the future either. Two of the people I work with are into rental properties in a fairly big way, and neither of them will consider attending an auction when buying. In fact I don't know anyone who would buy at an auction.

Auctions just have far to much uncertainty about a final price and so it makes it very hard to do a full RoR analysis, and it generally isn't worth giving up half a day to find that a property is simply passed in because the vender's expectations are higher than the buyers who have done their sums are willing to pay.

Auctions are also a losing proposition for the seller, because even if the property does sell, it goes for the a single bid over the second highest price that could be obtained. This is usually much lower than highest price.

[Hitcher]

For what they charge, real estate agents should get two independent market valuations done, arrange an independent property inspection report, get a copy of the LIM from the local territorial authority and then put all that in a package that prospective buyers can peruse, without having to go to all that effort and expense themselves, often duplicating exactly the same efforts other potential buyers may also have done for the same property.

But that would require mental agility and a bit of effort. It would also suggest a commitment to customer service.

[D3ADLYTuna]

It would also mean that if they paid for all that shit, and the house never sold,
and the seller withdrew from the market despite the agent doing everything you have just suggested,
It would mean that the agent is out of pocket trying to sell your house, while you get free advertising,
decline all offers presented. withdraw the property from the market, relist it yourself and benefit from
the customers still wanting your property, free advertising, and knowing the names and details of any one
person that made an offer, oh and you dont have to pay the commission.

Seems like in that case it would just be a selfish buyer who wants everything in life for free.

I'm not saying this is the case. but imagine the good agents out there who get pissed around by
joe public con artist.

not ideal.

perhaps a rebate after the sale. but then how much effort are you going to get from an agent that knows when
they sell your property they give their money back to you.

Sure sell it yourself.

I looked on trademe in central and eastern today. of the 960 odd properties on the market.
35 were for sale by the owner.

I'd say there is a pretty good reason why that number is so small. and it has nothing to do with agents fees.

Do you do all your legal paperwork when you have no law degree and no knowledge of the shit you could end up in.
NO, you pay the professional who does that thing all day every day. Same for any profession. Its called an economy.

perhaps overseas stats might open your eyes.
Its not the commission the agents are charging, its the 65% over inflated housing prices. If you dont like the price you dont pay it.
In the end it all boils down to greed. you paid something and you think your entitled to make a profit on it just cause you owned it for a while
and why shouldnt the market have risen. Its the outliers that push up the price. oh and the government.

anyway.
Just thoughts.
pick it to pieces.
What would i know.

Its a pity this site doesnt have a thread to ask real estate questions and refer the "good" agents to all out there in the community.

Oh wait.
Nope,
Not anymore.

I wonder why.

[Her_C4]

My 2 cents worth

18 months ago decided to sell (Onehunga near Mt Smart Stadium)

Had the agent come round that'll be approx $18k for a house value over $400k

Had QV value the house which was a waste of money as we picked up ten mistakes & when I complained she sent me the word doc to correct!!! anyway she valued it at $430k same as GV. I had researched the area and thought it was worth $450-$460k. I listed for $465k

We went though 'Home Sell' only because I couldn't be ased with the sign & photos, total cost $1200. They list on there own site & trademe, had a number of phone calls prior to the first open home all from people who had seen it on trademe. Anyway had 2 offers on the first open home then by request picked up an older couple for a private viewing & they offered $462k which I greatfully accepted. All told took 2 days to sell, yes this is an exception but I would do again myself no worries.

cheers

I have 2 cents of own.

I have bought and sold more houses than I care to think about over the years and have always used agents (until the last house sale a couple of months ago). I believe that the majority of agents (ok, thats probably a bit much) are lazy and expect to sell properties without putting in the hard yards.

I decided that this previous house sale would be my responsibility in an effort to save time and money (and frustration) on getting someone else to do it.

For anyone interested, the steps I took follow.

1. Paid for an independent valuation
2. Thought about it (the numbers) and added a small contingency %
3. Took photos of house
4. Loaded photo's on TradeMe and completed ad - price negotiable and put value at figure arrived at in step 2 (unseen by potential buyers but places property in amongst those of similar value when 'sort' tool used).
5. Rung lawyer and asked for quote for processing sale (actually rang 2 and took the second one), and notified them that the house was for sale and they should expect a contract from a buyers solicitor 'at some time'
6. Answered phone next day and provided access to house for 3 potential buyers
7. Verbal offer made and potential buyer requested contract
8. Sent potential buyer to their own solicitor to complete contract/offer
9. Batted back and forth for 2 days
10. Accepted offer

Cost = valuation, trademe ad, solicitor.

BUT I should add that I live on my own and could easily accommodate a short notice visit from potential buyers.

[spanner spinner]

Do you do all your legal paperwork when you have no law degree and no knowledge of the shit you could end up in.
NO, you pay the professional who does that thing all day every day. Same for any profession. Its called an economy.


the agent dosen't do any of the legal paperwork, the lawer does all the paperwork all they do is fill in the spaces where it says sellers name, buyers name, price ect. If you took some notice at school you should be able to do this to. If you have done some "home work" (suse the pun) before putting you house on the market you will know what it is worth and any legal requirements that you will have to sort before selling it. The form is a standand NZ wide legal form that your lawer will give you to get the buyer to fill out, it's easy me and my fiancee did it when we sold our house in auckland. We got the price we wanted the buyer payed the price they wanted to and we both sayed money as we didn't pay agent fees and they didn't have to pay an inflated price to cover the cost of the fees. Most pople have been conned in to thinking that selling your house is some complicated process, it's not. The lawer sorts out all the "shit you could end up in". There are professional land agents who are worth the money but they seem to be the minority most that I have had the misfortune to deal with I would not class as professional.

[Berries]

Its a pity this site doesnt have a thread to ask real estate questions and refer the "good" agents to all out there in the community.
I get that kind of info from Target.

[D3ADLYTuna]

the agent dosen't do any of the legal paperwork, the lawer does all the paperwork all they do is fill in the spaces where it says sellers name, buyers name, price ect.

If you had paid any attention in school you might have understood what I actually said in my post instead of skim reading and assuming you're right.

I made no connection to the agent doing the 'legal' paper work. It was merely an analogy, if you know what that is.

On that note, people are clearly recognising that there are agents out there that are worth the money, they are just few and far between. I'm not disagreeing that there are useless people
in real estate who should not even have a job, nor that there are scum out there that are lazy or muck you around or rip you off.

I'm saying that "as in any profession" there is the right person for the job. Just because you know a little does not mean you know it all.
Granted, real estate is not a doctorate however if you need your property sold and you do not have the time or the energy to do it then you find a good agent and that person does it all for you while still
getting you the price you asked.

And according to current trademe statistics i would say 96-98% of people would rather the agent do it, for what ever reason.