Drug busts!

[Akzle]

okay.
so you've probably heard about all these fabulous drug busts.
and how they've hauled some hundred thousand dollars in "crime money" and some tonnage of cannabis, and made a few hundred arrests in a ~6 month operation.

now, arbitrarily saying it takes 6 cops for 6 months per arrest, and using the 184 number that i read....and given that cops start at 50k/year. it starts to add up quick, just in man hours.

just how fucking economical is enforcing this anti-cannabis policy?

in terms of cost-benefit i'd say it's weighing fairly in the former and lacking in the latter.

but hey. drugs are bad, and cops are good. or something. right?

[MIXONE]

Yeah the cops could even make a profit by setting up tinny houses.

[nzspokes]

Its the law. Police uphold the law. HTH

[Coldrider]

okay.
so you've probably heard about all these fabulous drug busts.
and how they've hauled some hundred thousand dollars in "crime money" and some tonnage of cannabis, and made a few hundred arrests in a ~6 month operation.

now, arbitrarily saying it takes 6 cops for 6 months per arrest, and using the 184 number that i read....and given that cops start at 50k/year. it starts to add up quick, just in man hours.

just how fucking economical is enforcing this anti-cannabis policy?

in terms of cost-benefit i'd say it's weighing fairly in the former and lacking in the latter.

but hey. drugs are bad, and cops are good. or something. right?What is Chappelle Corbys hourly rate?

[mashman]

don't forget the 90k it costs to keep them inside for a year. The legal money that could be made out of something that goes on day in and day out, albeit that it's very very bad for you coz you could die or kill someone or kill someone after you die etc... would be worth changing it's status imho. Unfortunately too many people are scared that stoners will become glued to their couches and not become Olympians or anything useful, like doctors, or pilots, or flying doctors... it's just too scarey coz we'll all die, even with evidence to the contrary. Mind you, dunno what Mr woop woop call da Police man will do with his time.

Let's not let logic get in the way of a good prejudice... there's no telling where that could end up, it ain't like cannabis makes you think :crazy:

[mashman]

What is Chappelle Corbys whourly rate?

fixed for ya

[flyingcrocodile46]

What's the point in balancing books that are going to be tossed on a fire when the objective is to smash the printing press?

[jellywrestler]

in terms of cost-benefit i'd say it's weighing fairly in the former and lacking in the latter.


what's the ratio compared with the Scott Guy murder trial?

[mashman]

What's the point in balancing books that are going to be tossed on a fire when the objective is to smash the printing press?

Fire? Smashing the printing press? They do say that drugs aren't for everyone.

[Berries]

The law is wrong when it comes to cannabis. It is as simple as that.

[Subike]

I would tell you a story about my adventures with ........oh fuck forgotten again :crazy:

[unstuck]

Well they aint got my white rhino.:motu:

[Madness]

Akzle, you should pm Ed. I'm sure he's researched this subject extensively.

[Scuba_Steve]

Its the law. Police uphold the law. HTH

Police break the law on a daily basis, & they tend to pick & choose which laws they "uphold".
Like why spend so much effort on weed when 'P' is what they should be shutting down!?
Answer usually comes in the form of, easier target which still makes them look like they're doing something.
In the end have they really achieved anything? not really, just put a few small bottom feeders on a more expensive tax payer holiday while P carries on destroying NZ like usual.


The law is wrong when it comes to cannabis. It is as simple as that.

^ that! The law is wrong when it comes to alot of things, but yes I'd like to see cannabis legalised & taxed the shit outta. NZ would be much better off for it.

[FJRider]

but hey. drugs are bad, and cops are good. or something. right?

As you have stated on plenty of occasions ... you are not part of, nor wish to be part of ... "OUR" society. Therefore it is none of your business, what "OUR" police do with "OUR" taxpayers money.

If you claim that you have (reluctantly) paid anything in the way of a tax of any type to "OUR" Goverment .... that is the admission you ARE indeed part of "OUR" society. Thus subject to it's rules.

[Edbear]

Police break the law on a daily basis, & they tend to pick & choose which laws they "uphold".
Like why spend so much effort on weed when 'P' is what they should be shutting down!?
Answer usually comes in the form of, easier target which still makes them look like they're doing something.
In the end have they really achieved anything? not really, just put a few small bottom feeders on a more expensive tax payer holiday while P carries on destroying NZ like usual.



^ that! The law is wrong when it comes to alot of things, but yes I'd like to see cannabis legalised & taxed the shit outta. NZ would be much better off for it.

That won't work at all. It is an addictive recreational drug and those who use it for that won't want to pay more for it to do it legally, it will drive an underground illegal operation further underground. Along with that you would require more stringent "policing" to ensure it does not come into the work place just as with alcohol. Difference with alcohol is that it is much easier to determine if someone is drunk.

And the Police are hard out on P as well.

[oneofsix]

That won't work at all. It is an addictive recreational drug and those who use it for that won't want to pay more for it to do it legally, it will drive an underground illegal operation further underground. Along with that you would require more stringent "policing" to ensure it does not come into the work place just as with alcohol. Difference with alcohol is that it is much easier to determine if someone is drunk.

And the Police are hard out on P as well.

It isn't addictive but it is habit forming, not chemically but mentally addictive. Legalising it is an argument to make it cheaper but does provide a taxation stream that allows the government to collect money to offset the costs it usage already cause, talk medical etc here not law enforcement, and yes it does cause cancer.
Part of the trouble with determining if it is in the work place is that it is illegal and therefore sompeople are reluctant to mention it.
As to P why can't we buy effective cold medicines when the precursors are actually important by the container load.

[Drew]

That won't work at all. It is an addictive recreational drug and those who use it for that won't want to pay more for it to do it legally, it will drive an underground illegal operation further underground. Along with that you would require more stringent "policing" to ensure it does not come into the work place just as with alcohol. Difference with alcohol is that it is much easier to determine if someone is drunk.

And the Police are hard out on P as well.


Oooohhhhh goody, it's way more fun to argue with you than agree. Hehehehe

How big an underground tobaco industry do people think we have here? It is illegal to grow that without proper authority, and Christ knows there would be a huge market for it!

Also, has anyone actually proven that pot is addictive? I thought the popular opinion was the contrary? I smoked a bit of it as a younger dude, but had no issue stopping. A mate smokes daily at the moment, but stops for the race season.

Legal crops and taxes fixes more problems than it creates in my opinion.

Oh yeah, the police force is not a profitable organisation Akzel, there is no way to weigh up it's worth via financial reasoning.

[imdying]

Oh yeah, the police force is not a profitable organisation Akzel, there is no way to weigh up it's worth via financial reasoning.Sure you can, the government do that every year, they have to to set their budget.

[Drew]

Sure you can, the government do that every year, they have to to set their budget.

LOL, tuche.

[Edbear]

It isn't addictive but it is habit forming, not chemically but mentally addictive. Legalising it is an argument to make it cheaper but does provide a taxation stream that allows the government to collect money to offset the costs it usage already cause, talk medical etc here not law enforcement, and yes it does cause cancer.
Part of the trouble with determining if it is in the work place is that it is illegal and therefore sompeople are reluctant to mention it.
As to P why can't we buy effective cold medicines when the precursors are actually important by the container load.


Oooohhhhh goody, it's way more fun to argue with you than agree. Hehehehe

How big an underground tobaco industry do people think we have here? It is illegal to grow that without proper authority, and Christ knows there would be a huge market for it!

Also, has anyone actually proven that pot is addictive? I thought the popular opinion was the contrary? I smoked a bit of it as a younger dude, but had no issue stopping. A mate smokes daily at the moment, but stops for the race season.

Legal crops and taxes fixes more problems than it creates in my opinion.

Oh yeah, the police force is not a profitable organisation Akzel, there is no way to weigh up it's worth via financial reasoning.

There have been endless studies done over the years on this and while as with many substances they affect different people differently. (Some can quit smoking cold-turkey, others have a nightmare time of it). However if you do the research it is generally agreed that both nicotine and cannabis are chemically addictive substances, (along with many painkillers as I know all too well!)

An issue that legalising it would create is enforcement and monitoring, as being a drug that impairs the user, as with alcohol, it would have to become socially unnacceptable to be under the influence of it when in a public setting again, as with alcohol and drink driving, etc. It would be more of an issue than at present I believe.

Growing tobacco would be a minor issue nowadays as fewer and fewer are smoking, and it's not causing the mayhem that alcohol and drugs are, by a long shot. I would suspect that such would be a side issue for Police who may act if they come across it but not worth pursuing it generally.

[oneofsix]

There have been endless studies done over the years on this and while as with many substances they affect different people differently. (Some can quit smoking cold-turkey, others have a nightmare time of it). However if you do the research it is generally agreed that both nicotine and cannabis are chemically addictive substances, (along with many painkillers as I know all too well!)

An issue that legalising it would create is enforcement and monitoring, as being a drug that impairs the user, as with alcohol, it would have to become socially unnacceptable to be under the influence of it when in a public setting again, as with alcohol and drink driving, etc. It would be more of an issue than at present I believe.

Growing tobacco would be a minor issue nowadays as fewer and fewer are smoking, and it's not causing the mayhem that alcohol and drugs are, by a long shot. I would suspect that such would be a side issue for Police who may act if they come across it but not worth pursuing it generally.

Actually it is generally agreed nicotine is addictive but THC isn't, chemically speaking.
A couple of tobacco self growers were recently done for supplying.

[Edbear]

Actually it is generally agreed nicotine is addictive but THC isn't, chemically speaking.
A couple of tobacco self growers were recently done for supplying.

It's probably close either way, as with some other issues it is unclear if it's cause or effect. But certainly it is very much a mental issue regardless. Having had to beat a strong drug addiction to prescription painkillers I know how much of a nightmare it can be, both physically and mentally!

[oneofsix]

It's probably close either way, as with some other issues it is unclear if it's cause or effect. But certainly it is very much a mental issue regardless. Having had to beat a strong drug addiction to prescription painkillers I know how much of a nightmare it can be, both physically and mentally!

I don't agree with using cannabis but don't think the current way of handling it is correct and the history of how it got there is muddy. Like banning alcohol didn't work, deal with the individuals.

[SMOKEU]

That won't work at all. It is an addictive recreational drug and those who use it for that won't want to pay more for it to do it legally, it will drive an underground illegal operation further underground.



That must be why no one buys alcohol and every drinker in NZ drinks homebrew instead. Not.




It is illegal to grow that without proper authority



No it's not.

[Drew]

No it's not.Had to think about that. You're right, it is legal to grow tobaco, but not to sell it.

[oneofsix]

The cost of enforcing the marijuana laws is too high, well I reckon someone in The Orleans County Sheriff's Department might be thinking that about now. They have 5 rather flat cars because a guy got pissed off about his possession charges.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/oddstuff/7407831/Justice-farmer-style-Man-crushes-police-cars

[Drew]

The cost of enforcing the marijuana laws is too high, well I reckon someone in The Orleans County Sheriff's Department might be thinking that about now. They have 5 rather flat cars because a guy got pissed off about his possession charges.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/oddstuff/7407831/Justice-farmer-style-Man-crushes-police-carsSeven cars.

[oneofsix]

Seven cars.

True, 5 marked and 2 unmarked. Must have been the drugs man, that caffeine is a killer

[sidecar bob]

As you have stated on plenty of occasions ... you are not part of, nor wish to be part of ... "OUR" society. Therefore it is none of your business, what "OUR" police do with "OUR" taxpayers money.

If you claim that you have (reluctantly) paid anything in the way of a tax of any type to "OUR" Goverment .... that is the admission you ARE indeed part of "OUR" society. Thus subject to it's rules.

Mate, i fixed the problem. I put the gimp you quoted (who's quote i cant see, but im sure its braindead) & another couple of drug fucked morons on my ignore list a few weeks back, because frankly, they talk a load of bollocks.
"Dope, making dumbasses feel smart since ages ago"
Oh, & another side bonus, their red bling dosent show up on your page once you ignore them.

[avgas]

I love the fact that the Police have to waste time explaining why they take drugs of the streets and then all the druggies complain they are wasting their time taking drugs off the streets. :killingme

I used to be an addict. Everyone has their poison. I am still an addict, I just changed my poison. Better or worse - who knows and who cares?

But making trivial topics about how police spend their time isn't exactly going to save them more time is it?

[Akzle]

As you have stated on plenty of occasions ... you are not part of, nor wish to be part of ... "OUR" society. Therefore it is none of your business, what "OUR" police do with "OUR" taxpayers money.

If you claim that you have (reluctantly) paid anything in the way of a tax of any type to "OUR" Goverment .... that is the admission you ARE indeed part of "OUR" society. Thus subject to it's rules.
um. go away.
my point here is that y'all should be incensed at the frivolous waste, on the sweat of your back, occuring.


That won't work at all. It is an addictive recreational drug
->
It isn't addictive but it is habit forming, not chemically but mentally addictive.




Growing tobacco would be a minor issue nowadays as fewer and fewer are smoking, and it's not causing the mayhem that alcohol and drugs are, by a long shot. I would suspect that such would be a side issue for Police who may act if they come across it but not worth pursuing it generally.->


Had to think about that. You're right, it is legal to grow tobaco, but not to sell it.

never underestimate the power of ignorance or denial.


i was doing the sums this morning, and it comes to 27 and a half mil in WAGES alone.
now factor in fuel and registration for the holdens for six months, (6 cops*184 / 2 (cops per car)) = 110k$

RT=27 710 000$
plus office supplies, coffee and donuts, another 20k$

i'm not sure what crown lawyers are paid, but i'm fair certain that all these 184 will not be forking out for their own, that's 184 "legal aid" lawyers at 200$/hr. rough enough 80 hours per case, 2.9 mil,

RT=30 650 000$
probably twice that for the cop's lawyers.

RT=36 538 000$

plus the judges to sit though it, say 100k$ salary, 3 days actual court time/case for them (assuming none of them are smart enough to get out of it), 151k$

RT=36 689 000$

plus paralegals, stenographers, bailiffs, electricity to light up the court room and run their number crunching machines, lets say 100k$

so we're looking at close to 37 million, with what i'd rank as fairly conservative numbers, and that's before any of these "criminals" have to spend time in (tax payer funded) prison/remand/custody.

good fucking deal.

that's like... another 3 teachers in every school (touted cost 43 mil)
or pulling the rug from under cripples (disability allowance, 37mil)
or cutting off student loans by 6 odd percent (7.4% decrease = 47million)
or halving job subsides (29 million)
or fucking leaky home owners (34 mil)
or cutting housing NZ funding (16mil/year)

good fucking deal.


and i must laugh at the cop's/media's posted value of the dope. the last guy, down rotorua, they say he had X-million growing in his shed. i worked out the sums on that one too, his "shed" would have had to have been about 200m^2, and he'd have had to pulled 2 pounds of dope off each plant to make their numbers work.

safer communities together

[Akzle]

Mate, i fixed the problem. I put the gimp you quoted (who's quote i cant see, but im sure its braindead) & another couple of drug fucked morons on my ignore list a few weeks back, because frankly, they talk a load of bollocks.
"Dope, making dumbasses feel smart since ages ago"
Oh, & another side bonus, their red bling dosent show up on your page once you ignore them.

a shame that doesn't stop you from being a cock.

[FJRider]

um. go away.
my point here is that y'all should be incensed at the frivolous waste, on the sweat of your back, occuring.


I think you have no need to concern yourself with "the sweat of my back" ... I'm not concerned about their spending ... or what you think.

And think I you need to take a shit.

Because you're obviously full of it ...

[flyingcrocodile46]

plus the judges to sit though it, say 100k$ salary,

:lol::killingme:rofl:......

[Road kill]

I have a slightly different take on this than the average pot head does.
First off,I don't really care if people want to make their lives more bareable by either smoking weed or getting shit faced on booze.
But I also don't mind in the lest seeing old names getting busted and being taken off the streets.
One name in particular came up this week,,one willie wong tung,30 year monkey mob member.
Numerous convictions for violence,drug dealing,car and motorcycle thefts,rape and a few others I can't recall.
It's been a long time ago I had any contact with the shit head so I haven't kept up with what he's been up to since then,but yeah I remember him well.
Anyway his latest great idea was to use whanau ora funds to buy 3lbs of weed.
Got busted on the cook straight ferry while transporting it to the south island.
Then there were the two busted with a house and several sheds FULL of weed out at Whatawhata this week,,,not totaly sure yet,but I think I know both those arsewipes as well.
So the cops have taken them out of the loop,,,if any of you had met these people you'd also agree it was a bloody good thing.
You think the weed laws had anything to do with how these people live their lives,,forget it.
If weed was legal these scum would just be doing something else illegal to make money.
And by the way,,who ever bought it up,the police are doing well in their war with P.
Currently supplies are at an all time low in AK and "some people" are finding it so hard to find they have pushed the price of a point up to $120+.
Quite frankly if the weed laws take even one willie fucking wong tung off our streets,I don't care how much it costs.

[mashman]

Being tired changes your physical and mental state. Gambling is more addictive than cannabis and changes your physical and mental state. Exercise is more addictive than cannabis and changes your physical and mental state. Excessive hygiene is more addictive than cannabis and changes your physical and mental state. Getting the picture yet? THC is naturally found in the body along with other cannabis related compounds. What's your natural level for health and well being? or are you still as dumb as fuck? I'm betting on the latter.

[flyingcrocodile46]

Being tired changes your physical and mental state. Gambling is more addictive than cannabis and changes your physical and mental state. Exercise is more addictive than cannabis and changes your physical and mental state. Excessive hygiene is more addictive than cannabis and changes your physical and mental state. Getting the picture yet? THC is naturally found in the body along with other cannabis related compounds. What's your natural level for health and well being? or are you still as dumb as fuck? I'm betting on the latter.

15 to 18% is about the right strength with a doseage of around .33grm 3 to 5 times a day ;)

[onearmedbandit]

Mate, i fixed the problem. I put the gimp you quoted (who's quote i cant see, but im sure its braindead) & another couple of drug fucked morons on my ignore list a few weeks back, because frankly, they talk a load of bollocks.
"Dope, making dumbasses feel smart since ages ago"
Oh, & another side bonus, their red bling dosent show up on your page once you ignore them.

Still got those blinkers on sb? Oh well I guess they stop you from having to admit you're not always right.

[nzspokes]

Our neighbors in an old place got hit by the cops at 6 one saturday morning. Cops came saw us a little later and told us to leave for the day, nicely of course. Our neighbors had a P lab going on and growing weed. It stuffed the house, cost thousands to fix for the landlord. We never knew a thing. :crazy:

I guess Akzle will think that was a breach of the crims rights.....

[marmel]

How often does this argument come up on various forums across the web, heaps.

It also generally starts with some ill-informed internet hero blaming the cops for enforcing the law.

I think most people with a bit of common sense know cops don't make up the law, governments do. If you want to blame someone for cannabis laws, blame everyone, we vote in the governments that make these laws.

Cops don't have a choice of which laws they enforce, they are expected to uphold all laws because thats what their job is.

It's too hard though to blame everyone if you don't like a particular law or to get off your ass and do something about it, it's much easier to sit at home on the net blaming a select, highly visible group.

I think you would be suprised at the number of cops who would support some form of decriminalisation as 99% off the assholes they deal with are pissed, not stoned. Alcohol is by far the most abused drug in NZ and by far causes the most problems, hence the push to tighten up liquor laws over recent times.

Personally I think a system similar to the UK with a fine can be issued for a bit of percy would be a good idea.

[SMOKEU]

Motorcycles are far more dangerous than cannabis will ever be. There have been several KB members over the years (I'm not going to refer to any specific incidents) who have tragically died as a direct result from injuries sustained from motorcycle accidents. How many people have died as a direct cause from smoking cannabis, in the whole world, ever? ZERO. Several other KB members have sustained severe, permanent, life changing injuries also as a direct result from motorcycle crashes.

It seems rather hypocritical that many of you seem to be so against cannabis, when you yourselves indulge in a far more dangerous activity. It seems selfish that you choose to ride a bike when many of you have a loving family who depend on you and your good health. How do you think your family would feel if you died from a bike crash, all because of your stupidly dangerous hobby? Is it really fair for your parents/spouse/kids to have to take the risk that your next ride may be your last? We have cars, which are a far safer alternative to 2 wheeled transport. It doesn't matter how good a rider you are, but you still have to factor in other road users and their stupidity.

Many motorcycles these days are ridiculously over powered for public roads, and there is no need to have a machine that can do the legal open road speed limit in first gear, "just for fun". So think about that before you judge pot smokers, and the "dangers" associated with it.

By the way, I'm NOT anti bike, and I don't have a car. I have a 1973 TS185 and a 1998 GSXR600 as I love riding and I wish to keep riding for as long as I can.

[marmel]

Motorcycles are far more dangerous than cannabis will ever be. There have been several KB members over the years (I'm not going to refer to any specific incidents) who have tragically died as a direct result from injuries sustained from motorcycle accidents. How many people have died as a direct cause from smoking cannabis, in the whole world, ever? ZERO. Several other KB members have sustained severe, permanent, life changing injuries also as a direct result from motorcycle crashes.

It seems rather hypocritical that many of you seem to be so against cannabis, when you yourselves indulge in a far more dangerous activity. It seems selfish that you choose to ride a bike when many of you have a loving family who depend on you and your good health. How do you think your family would feel if you died from a bike crash, all because of your stupidly dangerous hobby? Is it really fair for your parents/spouse/kids to have to take the risk that your next ride may be your last? We have cars, which are a far safer alternative to 2 wheeled transport. It doesn't matter how good a rider you are, but you still have to factor in other road users and their stupidity.

Many motorcycles these days are ridiculously over powered for public roads, and there is no need to have a machine that can do the legal open road speed limit in first gear, "just for fun". So think about that before you judge pot smokers, and the "dangers" associated with it.

By the way, I'm NOT anti bike, and I don't have a car. I have a 1973 TS185 and a 1998 GSXR600 as I love riding and I wish to keep riding for as long as I can.

Some good points there.

However there would have been quite a lot of people that have died as a result of smoking cannabis AND trying to operate a car/bike etc at the same time.

Just have a look at the findings that come out of coroners inquests time and time again, quite often alcohol is involved as well but cannabis does alter your reaction times/judgment. There was a finding released over the last week, i think it was on the stuff website, in relation to the death of a guy up north riding his mates v-rod after smoking a joint. Didn't have a full bike licence either or a helmet but the level of THC in his blood would have definately affected his riding ability and decision making.

Thats why I think a middle ground would be a reasonable solution where some forms of control are still in place to prevent people getting stoned and driving/going to work operating machinery etc.

Like I said though cannabis was made illegal by the government many, many years ago now and subsequent governments voted in by a democratic process haven't seen fit to change that law.

[SMOKEU]

So pretty much what I was saying in my previous rant is TAKE A GOOD FUCKING LOOK AT YOURSELF BEFORE YOU JUDGE OTHERS. That's all I ask.

[flyingcrocodile46]

Motorcycles are far more dangerous than cannabis will ever be. There have been several KB members over the years (I'm not going to refer to any specific incidents) who have tragically died as a direct result from injuries sustained from motorcycle accidents. How many people have died as a direct cause from smoking cannabis, in the whole world, ever? ZERO. Several other KB members have sustained severe, permanent, life changing injuries also as a direct result from motorcycle crashes.

It seems rather hypocritical that many of you seem to be so against cannabis, when you yourselves indulge in a far more dangerous activity. It seems selfish that you choose to ride a bike when many of you have a loving family who depend on you and your good health. How do you think your family would feel if you died from a bike crash, all because of your stupidly dangerous hobby? Is it really fair for your parents/spouse/kids to have to take the risk that your next ride may be your last? We have cars, which are a far safer alternative to 2 wheeled transport. It doesn't matter how good a rider you are, but you still have to factor in other road users and their stupidity.

Many motorcycles these days are ridiculously over powered for public roads, and there is no need to have a machine that can do the legal open road speed limit in first gear, "just for fun". So think about that before you judge pot smokers, and the "dangers" associated with it.

By the way, I'm NOT anti bike, and I don't have a car. I have a 1973 TS185 and a 1998 GSXR600 as I love riding and I wish to keep riding for as long as I can.

That might be the best post I have seen you put together.

[schrodingers cat]

my point here is that y'all should be incensed at the frivolous waste, on the sweat of your back, occuring.


You fucking twerp. We're not part of 'your' society and therefore not very interested in what you think we should be INCENSED at.
You've stated your position at every opportunity so don't be surprised that the 'sheeple' ignore you


a shame that doesn't stop you from being a cock.

Is your short term memory that poor? He's got you on ignore knobrot. (Just saying)

[schrodingers cat]

That might be the best post I have seen you put together.

Give him 2 seconds to contradict himself...

[SMOKEU]

Some good points there.

However there would have been quite a lot of people that have died as a result of smoking cannabis AND trying to operate a car/bike etc at the same time.

Just have a look at the findings that come out of coroners inquests time and time again, quite often alcohol is involved as well

That means fuck all. Cannabis is detectable in the bloodstream for up to several weeks after ingestion. Any evidence to prove that the user was currently under the influence at the time of the accident is purely circumstantial at best.

I never said that everyone should sesh up and drive, I was meaning that cannabis does not DIRECTLY cause death. It does not cause stress to any organ in the way that alcohol, paracetamol, caffeine, or most prescription medicine causes.

[FJRider]

Cops don't have a choice of which laws they enforce

They do actually ... it's called descretion.

Law enforcement is only part of the job Police do. Maintaining order in our society, is the job most don't often see them doing. Sorting out the problems of those that can't do it themselves ...(and often abused for it)

[Drew]

How many people have died as a direct cause from smoking cannabis, in the whole world, ever? ZERO.



Nope, that dog won't hunt. There is something stupid like 7 times the tar in a rolled joint, as there is in a rolled tobaco cigarette. I bet a million bucks that at least one pot smoker has died of cancer, who wouldn't have died had they not smoked.

I also argue that the people did not die directly relative to the bike, before you try and argue that. They were on a bike when things went tits up, but it is not the cause of the bike.

I didn't read any further, there was no point.

[SMOKEU]

Give him 2 seconds to contradict himself...

I'll leave you to make a rather lame attempt to disrepute my post with heresay and speculation. Go ahead, you know you want to.

[Drew]

I was meaning that cannabis does not DIRECTLY cause death.


Give him 2 seconds to contradict himself...And there he goes, because motorcycles do not directly cause death either. They do not control themselves.

[oneofsix]

Some good points there.

However there would have been quite a lot of people that have died as a result of smoking cannabis AND trying to operate a car/bike etc at the same time.

Just have a look at the findings that come out of coroners inquests time and time again, quite often alcohol is involved as well but cannabis does alter your reaction times/judgment.

Thats why I think a middle ground would be a reasonable solution where some forms of control are still in place to prevent people getting stoned and driving/going to work operating machinery etc.

Like I said though cannabis was made illegal by the government many, many years ago now and subsequent governments voted in by a democratic process haven't seen fit to change that law.

Whilst your two posts have made good point you also keep going on about the government and the people as if the people have control over the government. The peoples control and choices around government are very limited. When the present ruling party first took power it was on a promise to not do much so they could attract the voters that wanted to get rid of the previous government. Their current term was secured on much the same fear of the other choice even though it seems most people voting for them didn't want their major plank of asset sales. Once in the people do not have control of the government on major issues never mind issues that don't directly affect them and the choice of who they vote for every 3 years is, sadly, between bad and worse, not good and better. The peoples say on the laws are in which ones they support the police in enforcing, murder robbery etc, and which ones they ignore, break or support the so called criminals on, do you give your donut vouchers to the radar gun operator or the red light policer is how you chose.

[marmel]

So pretty much what I was saying in my previous rant is TAKE A GOOD FUCKING LOOK AT YOURSELF BEFORE YOU JUDGE OTHERS. That's all I ask.

Yep I agree with you there but coming back to the original subject matter raised by the OP cops don't get to pick and choose who they judge or what laws to uphold and blaming them for drug busts (economical or not) that the public and government expect them to do is pointless.

[marmel]

Whilst your two posts have made good point you also keep going on about the government and the people as if the people have control over the government. The peoples control and choices around government are very limited. When the present ruling party first took power it was on a promise to not do much so they could attract the voters that wanted to get rid of the previous government. Their current term was secured on much the same fear of the other choice even though it seems most people voting for them didn't want their major plank of asset sales. Once in the people do not have control of the government on major issues never mind issues that don't directly affect them and the choice of who they vote for every 3 years is, sadly, between bad and worse, not good and better. The peoples say on the laws are in which ones they support the police in enforcing, murder robbery etc, and which ones they ignore, break or support the so called criminals on, do you give your donut vouchers to the radar gun operator or the red light policer is how you chose.

I accept what you are saying and one thing everybody would agree on is that there are things they would like them to do differently including myself.

The point I am making is that blaming police for current cannabis laws has been done to death time and time again on every internet forum I have been a part of and as well as showing a lack of imagination and originality also shows a complete ignorance of how laws are created and policed.

[flyingcrocodile46]

I accept what you are saying and one thing everybody would agree on is that there are things they would like them to do differently including myself.

The point I am making is that blaming police for current cannabis laws has been done to death time and time again on every internet forum I have been a part of and as well as showing a lack of imagination and originality also shows a complete ignorance of how laws are created and policed.

I disagree. Change is bought about by incessant efforts to be heard... not by shrugging and ignoring issues. Are you a shrugger who grasps his ankles on command?

[oneofsix]

I accept what you are saying and one thing everybody would agree on is that there are things they would like them to do differently including myself.

The point I am making is that blaming police for current cannabis laws has been done to death time and time again on every internet forum I have been a part of and as well as showing a lack of imagination and originality also shows a complete ignorance of how laws are created and policed.

No I it is more a case of the police being the front men, the most visible aspect of the law. Every time the police are mentioned they aren't being blamed for making the laws. If you are to talk about what a waste of money enforcing the cannabis laws are then very likely you are going to refer to it in terms of police budget, time and effort, not government.

If you read a bit deeper you will also come across those that will argue that the government, regardless of ruling party, is not answering to the people of their country as they were elected to do, but instead to other global players. Got to have a conspiracy theory. :banana:

[marmel]

I disagree. Change is bought about by incessant efforts to be heard... not by shrugging and ignoring issues. Are you a shrugger who grasps his ankles on command?

Yeah but you have to make yourself heard in the right arena. Complianing about a bunch of people who can't change the law if they wanted to doesn't really help as far as I can tell.

Why not spend the time emailing members of parliament or doing something useful if you are really passionate about effecting change?

Like I said before I suspect it is because moaning about police who are a highly visible target is easy, trying to bring about real change is very hard.

[marmel]

No I it is more a case of the police being the front men, the most visible aspect of the law. Every time the police are mentioned they aren't being blamed for making the laws. If you are to talk about what a waste of money enforcing the cannabis laws are then very likely you are going to refer to it in terms of police budget, time and effort, not government.

If you read a bit deeper you will also come across those that will argue that the government, regardless of ruling party, is not answering to the people of their country as they were elected to do, but instead to other global players. Got to have a conspiracy theory. :banana:

Please don't mention chem trails, please...:killingme

[flyingcrocodile46]

Yeah but you have to make yourself heard in the right arena. Complianing about a bunch of people who can't change the law if they wanted to doesn't really help as far as I can tell.

Why not spend the time emailing members of parliament or doing something useful if you are really passionate about effecting change?

Like I said before I suspect it is because moaning about police who are a highly visible target is easy, trying to bring about real change is very hard.

You don't know much about marketing or politics do you? One voice talking to itself (solitary emails ignored) isn't nearly as effective as tens of thousands of voters sending in indications of what they believe in and would vote for.

[marmel]

You don't know much about marketing or politics do you? One voice talking to itself (solitary emails ignored) isn't nearly as effective as tens of thousands of voters sending in indications of what they believe in and would vote for.

You missed the point.

Even if "tens of thousands" of people complained about police enforcing cannabis laws police still can't change the law.

Now imagine if "tens of thousands" of people started an email campaign to the PM or organised marches, much more effective.

If you are unhappy with rego fees do you post on internet forums about the thieves at the post shop taking your money? If your bike fails a warrant because the frame is rusty do you blame the WOF examiner?

[98tls]

As you have stated on plenty of occasions ... you are not part of, nor wish to be part of ... "OUR" society. Therefore it is none of your business, what "OUR" police do with "OUR" taxpayers money.

If you claim that you have (reluctantly) paid anything in the way of a tax of any type to "OUR" Goverment .... that is the admission you ARE indeed part of "OUR" society. Thus subject to it's rules.

Mate do you really think this cunt lives in the same world as the rest of us let alone the same country?All this shit about cops no doubt stems from "once upon a time" he opened his mouth in the real world and a cop gave him the smack he deserved and it seems all these years later he gets a chubby on via the internet having a crack at them.Dont put him off though its better than waving threads.

[nzspokes]

Mate do you really think this cunt lives in the same world as the rest of us let alone the same country?All this shit about cops no doubt stems from "once upon a time" he opened his mouth in the real world and a cop gave him the smack he deserved and it seems all these years later he gets a chubby on via the internet having a crack at them.Dont put him off though its better than waving threads.

He wouldnt wave as hes better than the rest of us......

[marmel]

Mate do you really think this cunt lives in the same world as the rest of us let alone the same country?All this shit about cops no doubt stems from "once upon a time" he opened his mouth in the real world and a cop gave him the smack he deserved and it seems all these years later he gets a chubby on via the internet having a crack at them.Dont put him off though its better than waving threads.

Yeah I'm hearin ya. Still it's a good way to fill in an hour or so why we wait for the rowing boys to score a couple more golds. 11:30pm I think it kicks off.

[flyingcrocodile46]

You missed the point.

Even if "tens of thousands" of people complained about police enforcing cannabis laws police still can't change the law.

Now imagine if "tens of thousands" of people started an email campaign to the PM or organised marches, much more effective.

If you are unhappy with rego fees do you post on internet forums about the thieves at the post shop taking your money? If your bike fails a warrant because the frame is rusty do you blame the WOF examiner?


Well Duh! That was my point. You say you are sick of hearing about it yet don't seem to appreciate that the way to reach and convince people that their opinions and vote needs to be counted is by keeping the issue at the forefront of social discourse (i.e through internet forums) until everybody has an opinion and politicians see (in their faces every day in every way) that the issue is a platform that will guarantee votes. Their is no way that tens of thousands of people currently care enough to email their politician (besides emails get deleted.. opinion polls and petitions are the way to go)

[FJRider]

Mate do you really think this cunt lives in the same world as the rest of us let alone the same country?All this shit about cops no doubt stems from "once upon a time" he opened his mouth in the real world and a cop gave him the smack he deserved and it seems all these years later he gets a chubby on via the internet having a crack at them.Dont put him off though its better than waving threads.

I did a "bit of a google" on him ... I found a few posts on an "Airgunner's" forum ... (air guns are his thing it seems) and he listed his "location" as Terenga Paraoa which is a Marae in Whangarei that think they're big-shots with the goverment. That may explain his ... well ... well explain lots.

If it is the same dude ... and several different avenues of googling took me to that location ...
He also stated he had a GSX750.

[flyingcrocodile46]

Wow! Look at me. I'm a marijuana advocate :lol:

[marmel]

Well Duh! That was my point. You say you are sick of hearing about it yet don't seem to appreciate that the way to reach and convince people that their opinions and vote needs to be counted is by keeping the issue at the forefront of social discourse (i.e through internet forums) until everybody has an opinion and politicians see (in their faces every day in every way) that the issue is a platform that will guarantee votes. Their is no way that tens of thousands of people currently care enough to email their politician (besides emails get deleted.. opinion polls and petitions are the way to go)


How many internet forums do you think John Key reads?

[flyingcrocodile46]

How many internet forums do you think John Key reads?

Oh Gawd! Ed has made a sock

[98tls]

I did a "bit of a google" on him ... I found a few posts on an "Airgunner's" forum ... (air guns are his thing it seems) and he listed his "location" as Terenga Paraoa which is a Marae in Whangarei that think they're big-shots with the goverment. That may explain his ... well ... well explain lots.

If it is the same dude ... and several different avenues of googling took me to that location ...
He also stated he had a GSX750.

:clap::killingme:killingmeStop it my stomach hurts.I dont give a fuck if its him or not its better than i imagined it could be.:killingme:killingme

[avgas]

THC is naturally found in the body along with other cannabis related compounds.
While I don't really care whom smokes dope - I am a stickler for the facts. And abusing others when you don't have your facts correct should really be a no no.

AEA is similar to THC as adrenalin is similar to P.

Just because they are in the same compound group does not mean they are the same.

[avgas]

:lol::killingme:rofl:......
Don't laugh. $100K is a lot of money to some people.

But I don't even think a judge would bend over to pick it up off the ground.

[98tls]

While I don't really care whom smokes dope - I am a stickler for the facts. And abusing others when you don't have your facts correct should really be a no no.

AEA is similar to THC as adrenalin is similar to P.

Just because they are in the same compound group does not mean they are the same.
Been pondering this post for hours (so it seems).After much discussion we have decided to have a feed then ponder it some more.

[onearmedbandit]

I beginning to think that all these weed threads should be merged just as waving threads are. The arguments never change, the reasons for and against never change, and never in the history of the internet has someone from either staunch supporters camp posted 'You know what, you have a very valid point there, I've changed my opinion solely based on what you said and now side fully with you.'

[FJRider]

Been pondering this post for hours (so it seems).After much discussion we have decided to have a feed then ponder it some more.

I found this in another "Google" ...

THC is specific to weed- the cannabinoid family of chemicals are found throughout nature in plants and animals- the chemical conformation (shape) allows for the THC molecules to bind to specific cell sites that produce neurotransmitters that ultimately give you the specific feeling of being baked. Some other cannabinoids can also do this, as they mimic other receptors that closely resemble the conformation and content of the THC receptor. This may not produce a feeling of euphoria, necessarily, but may have some other effects that cause altered sensory throughput and behavioral changes... some you might like, some you definitely wouldn't.

[marmel]

I beginning to think that all these weed threads should be merged just as waving threads are. The arguments never change, the reasons for and against never change, and never in the history of the internet has someone from either staunch supporters camp posted 'You know what, you have a very valid point there, I've changed my opinion solely based on what you said and now side fully with you.'

Well said that man.

[98tls]

I found this in another "Google" ...

THC is specific to weed- the cannabinoid family of chemicals are found throughout nature in plants and animals- the chemical conformation (shape) allows for the THC molecules to bind to specific cell sites that produce neurotransmitters that ultimately give you the specific feeling of being baked. Some other cannabinoids can also do this, as they mimic other receptors that closely resemble the conformation and content of the THC receptor. This may not produce a feeling of euphoria, necessarily, but may have some other effects that cause altered sensory throughput and behavioral changes... some you might like, some you definitely wouldn't.

Or .......................... <iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/89-WRXJyvJE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[mashman]

While I don't really care whom smokes dope - I am a stickler for the facts. And abusing others when you don't have your facts correct should really be a no no.

AEA is similar to THC as adrenalin is similar to P.

Just because they are in the same compound group does not mean they are the same.

Hey, the abuse of people and the abuse of terminology are two entirely different facts.

Ooooooooooooooooh ok.

Fair enough, I stand corrected... now go fuck yourself.

[mashman]

Even if "tens of thousands" of people complained about police enforcing cannabis laws police still can't change the law.

Now imagine if "tens of thousands" of people started an email campaign to the PM or organised marches, much more effective.

They could if they decided not to enforce the law. Yes that does not mean the law has actually been changed... but if it isn't used by those who enforce the law, then technically the law has been changed iykwim.

Like ACC?

[marmel]

They could if they decided not to enforce the law. Yes that does not mean the law has actually been changed... but if it isn't used by those who enforce the law, then technically the law has been changed iykwim.

Like ACC?

You rapidly get into dangerous territory there though, the police deciding which laws to enforce and which to ignore sounds like a pretty bad idea.

[mashman]

You rapidly get into dangerous territory there though, the police deciding which laws to enforce and which to ignore sounds like a pretty bad idea.

Someone did mention that they do already and they call it discretion... albeit he called it descretion ;)

[FJRider]

Or ..........................

I like ........

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/HM1MftCtIlg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[marmel]

Someone did mention that they do already and they call it discretion... albeit he called it descretion ;)

Yeah, I know that with small quantities it's not unusual to see a bit get flushed down the toilet/drain and a quiet word given to the owner. Time place and circumstances dictate what action will be taken though.

The thing is discretion is supposed to be a police officers choice but it's not in a lot of cases. National police policy dictates what happens in most cases, if they get caught ignoring "policy' they can get in the shit themselves.

[GrayWolf]

That means fuck all. Cannabis is detectable in the bloodstream for up to several weeks after ingestion. Any evidence to prove that the user was currently under the influence at the time of the accident is purely circumstantial at best.

I never said that everyone should sesh up and drive, I was meaning that cannabis does not DIRECTLY cause death. It does not cause stress to any organ in the way that alcohol, paracetamol, caffeine, or most prescription medicine causes.

It is also detectable in the body fat for up to 3 months after use.... however, the 'mere' fact it would be detectable in the bloodstream for several weeks would in my case (work) and any other person involved in a 'safety critical' industry, get you instantly 'stood down' and likely put on a drug rehab course, or be sacked!

[mashman]

Yeah, I know that with small quantities it's not unusual to see a bit get flushed down the toilet/drain and a quiet word given to the owner. Time place and circumstances dictate what action will be taken though.

The thing is discretion is supposed to be a police officers choice but it's not in a lot of cases. National police policy dictates what happens in most cases, if they get caught ignoring "policy' they can get in the shit themselves.

Absolutely... although I would imagine that the policy makers would have a bit of a trouble should the hierarchy decide to back their officers in an "alternative" policy. Should the Police decide to honour the "wishes" of the people (should we wish decriminalisation/legalisation as a majority) I would have thought that the policy makers would then be able to change the law without any issues. Granted the sun may turn pink and night will never fall again. I'd say that Police have more of a chance of changing drug policy than any group in NZ?

[flyingcrocodile46]

It is also detectable in the body fat for up to 3 months after use.... however, the 'mere' fact it would be detectable in the bloodstream for several weeks would in my case (work) and any other person involved in a 'safety critical' industry, get you instantly 'stood down' and likely put on a drug rehab course, or be sacked!

I've heard that it can be measured in hair strands for up to six months

[marmel]

Absolutely... although I would imagine that the policy makers would have a bit of a trouble should the hierarchy decide to back their officers in an "alternative" policy. Should the Police decide to honour the "wishes" of the people (should we wish decriminalisation/legalisation as a majority) I would have thought that the policy makers would then be able to change the law without any issues. Granted the sun may turn pink and night will never fall again. I'd say that Police have more of a chance of changing drug policy than any group in NZ?

One of the reasons that the kiwi police are well respected on world terms is that their history is to be independant from government which in theory means there is less corruption. I can't think of anything worse than some of the american states which vote in sherrifs who can end up owing all kinds of favours.

So I wouldn't want police in NZ to change policy, I think that has to come from public pressure and the flow on from that is the police being told "this is how we want you to do things now".

In saying that police do have a say in some policy decisions normally at select committee level and the like. I think this is more to provide stats/experience from the frontline. I do think though that recently there has been a bit of a shift for the top brass to be a bit more outspoken especially with the alcohol reforms previously mentioned.

2nd gold medal for the kiwis too!

[Berries]

This thread makes me want to have a joint.

[mashman]

One of the reasons that the kiwi police are well respected on world terms is that their history is to be independant from government which in theory means there is less corruption. I can't think of anything worse than some of the american states which vote in sherrifs who can end up owing all kinds of favours.

So I wouldn't want police in NZ to change policy, I think that has to come from public pressure and the flow on from that is the police being told "this is how we want you to do things now".

In saying that police do have a say in some policy decisions normally at select committee level and the like. I think this is more to provide stats/experience from the frontline. I do think though that recently there has been a bit of a shift for the top brass to be a bit more outspoken especially with the alcohol reforms previously mentioned.

2nd gold medal for the kiwis too!

Fair enough, but in the light of there being no sensible law in regards to recreational drug use I would not have a problem with the Police "leading" the way (by not enforcing the law) on the policy. After all the govt seeks advice on all sorts of matters from various agencies. Let's make some money out of it, get it out in the open once and for all and get on with the education of use and not abuse, as well as paying for funding for more accurate testing. I'm all for a simple effective test to prove that you're not "impaired" at work as I think everyone would agree that there can be consequences to any form of substance abuse. Turn the drug dealers into tax paying employed citizens. The supply chain is already in place and is "servicing" a need" and the demand is already in place, but the political will isn't there irrespective of what people would "like". If the Police "kick" such a policy off, the political will will follow. I just don't see people being listened too as they're always driving a personal agenda :facepalm: and the advocate groups have yet to apply sufficient pressure to change the minds of the govt, irrespective of support. Who knows, people may actually use cannabis responsibly :shit: as plenty currently do. ?100? years of fuckin around, locking people up, demonising "users" and wasting huge amounts of tax payers money for something that was banned because it provided industry with a product that gave them an unfair advantage does not make sense... especially when there are legal alternatives that are utterly feckin dangerous and untested. The US are having a mare with bath salts (nasty stuff by the sounds of it) and recently there was a report stating that keeping tabs of legal highs was akin to pissing in the wind. Release the tried and trusted on health grounds if nothing else, I'm sure even Ed would agree that the lesser of 2 evils would be preferable :corn:

Good on Mahe, must be a hell of a relief to finally have that medal under his belt.

[Road kill]

I've heard that it can be measured in hair strands for up to six months

For as long as that strand of hair is still on your head.
In which case I wouldn't have much to worry about:o

[Scuba_Steve]

I beginning to think that all these weed threads should be merged just as waving threads are. The arguments never change, the reasons for and against never change, and never in the history of the internet has someone from either staunch supporters camp posted 'You know what, you have a very valid point there, I've changed my opinion solely based on what you said and now side fully with you.'

You know what, you have a very valid point there, I've changed my opinion solely based on what you said and now side fully with you. :p


One of the reasons that the kiwi police are well respected on world terms is that their history is to be independant from government which in theory means there is less corruption.

funny thing is NZ is one of the lest corrupt countries in the world, but heading up top place in the corruption list... Surprisingly (or maybee not???) it's not politicians or even lawyers, it's the NZ police take gold on the corruption list for NZ (tho the silver & bronze winners ain't far behind)

[nodrog]

Double rainbow all the way!

[mashman]

Drugs Bust... she's doing it right

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd120/hipsterrunoff/IMG_6249.jpg

[Drew]

Hehehehehehehe, I used to be able to troll well enough to insite this sorta thread.

Oh how I miss the days of my youth.

[Akzle]

Our neighbors in an old place got hit by the cops at 6 ...
I guess Akzle will think that was a breach of the crims rights.....

i don't follow your logic.
whut?

i'm not endorsing P, or it's manufacture of use.
if the good pre-cursors were still available, cooking crystal meth can be done a lot easier and with less toxicity than is currently required.
i also do not endorse damaging landlord's property with said P manufacture.



It also generally starts with some ill-informed internet hero blaming the cops for enforcing the law.
i'm not blaming the cops. i'm drawing the parallels between funding to enforce anti-cannabis policy and funding for useful things, like housing and education.


I did a "bit of a google" on him ... I
way too much time on your hands. but yep, that's me. i'm also on PSB forums (not much) and have a few other things around the internets, also the world freeman society's former webpage which i think is now redundant and i dun get on it any more.
search also for robbo akzle, or rob akerman. then go jack off about how clever you are.
but sersly. it's pretty pathetic that you'd spend that time on me. i'm flattered, though.

whanagarei terenga paraoa is an old maori name for this district, before the scotish came in and "civilised up the maarees" there have been several take-and-retakes of this area, particularly whangarei heads. the name has something to do with whales. google that


They could if they decided not to enforce the law. Yes that does not mean the law has actually been changed... but if it isn't used by those who enforce the law, then technically the law has been changed iykwim.
fortunately, the policing act 2008, which dictates how those gainfully employed must enforce the law, does NOT state that they must "enforce legislation" merely "maintain the law" now, if we refer this to COMMON law, that is, law that has the universal assent of THE PEOPLE, then cops are well within their legislated rights to not enforce cannabis policy. similarly, the same act states that NOTHING imposes ANY DUTY on, (or gives particular powers to) the police...
also, if every jury standing in cannabis trials got into some jury nullification, we (the people and police) could probably see that particular law overturned in short order.
as it is. meh.

and as far as whining on internet forums, i (and some hundreds-thousands of others) also regularly take part in J day. i forget which day of the year it is, so i do it often, just to make sure i don't miss it. :D

[Subike]

I don't think very many people on her know the difference between ""common"" law and ""corporate"" law.

It would be interesting to see how many do.

The maharajah laws are under the corporate banner .

[scumdog]

Great, ANOTHER pointless KB rant thread to ignore, classic KB fare...:crazy:

[FJRider]

Great, ANOTHER pointless KB rant thread to ignore, classic KB fare...:crazy:

Posts in R & R don't even add to your post count ... :(

[marmel]

You know what, you have a very valid point there, I've changed my opinion solely based on what you said and now side fully with you. :p



funny thing is NZ is one of the lest corrupt countries in the world, but heading up top place in the corruption list... Surprisingly (or maybee not???) it's not politicians or even lawyers, it's the NZ police take gold on the corruption list for NZ (tho the silver & bronze winners ain't far behind)


According to who??? Cases, links, post up what you know.

[FJRider]

fortunately, the policing act 2008, which dictates how those gainfully employed must enforce the law, does NOT state that they must "enforce legislation" merely "maintain the law" now,

While some specific issues relating to Police powers could be addressed in the Police Act rewrite, the broader point is ... that most powers exercised by police are conferred by legislation other than the Police Act.

And google Police discretion ...


if we refer this to COMMON law, that is, law that has the universal assent of THE PEOPLE, then cops are well within their legislated rights to not enforce cannabis policy. similarly, the same act states that NOTHING imposes ANY DUTY on, (or gives particular powers to) the police...
also, if every jury standing in cannabis trials got into some jury nullification, we (the people and police) could probably see that particular law overturned in short order.
as it is. meh.

From Wiki ...

Common law (also known as case law or precedent) is law developed by judges through decisions of courts and similar tribunals (as opposed to legislative statutes or executive branch action).[1]

A "common law system" is a legal system that gives great precedential weight to common law,[2] on the principle that it is unfair to treat similar facts differently on different occasions.[3] The body of precedent is called "common law" and it binds future decisions. In cases where the parties disagree on what the law is, a common law court looks to past precedential decisions of relevant courts. If a similar dispute has been resolved in the past, the court is bound to follow the reasoning used in the prior decision (this principle is known as stare decisis). If, however, the court finds that the current dispute is fundamentally distinct from all previous cases (called a "matter of first impression"), judges have the authority and duty to make law by creating precedent.[4] Thereafter, the new decision becomes precedent, and will bind future courts.

No mention of "Universal public assent" being part of Common Law... it is based on fairness, and precedents already previously set ... and resolved in the past.

It is on that basis of fairness ... Police have the element of discretion to pursue charges (or not) on minor offences involving drugs. Depending on the class of drugs and the scale of the offence. And the actions and attitude of those involved at the time.

Also ... I can't recall any drugs trials (involving drug use/posession ... alone) involving a jury. Can you provide a link to one that has ... ???



and as far as whining on internet forums, i (and some hundreds-thousands of others) also regularly take part in J day. i forget which day of the year it is, so i do it often, just to make sure i don't miss it. :D

You hardcore law-breaker you ... :lol:

[Scuba_Steve]

According to who??? Cases, links, post up what you know.

Sorry my bad, it's not absolute (guess it's hard to know corruption for sure) it's perceived corruption on the CPI (Corruption perception Index) http://cpi.transparency.org

[Drew]

Oh it's a website, it must be true.

You fuckin idiot Scuba Steve! Perceived levels? I perceive you to have an IQ of about 3, that is 100% of the focus group surveyed so it must be true.

[Scuba_Steve]

Oh it's a website, it must be true.

You fuckin idiot Scuba Steve! Perceived levels? I perceive you to have an IQ of about 3, that is 100% of the focus group surveyed so it must be true.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l550530Ob01qcb95go1_500.jpg

[Drew]

Bitches be trippin.

[Akzle]

While some specific issues relating to Police powers could be addressed in the Police Act rewrite...

...From Wiki ...

fuck. it's on wikipedia. must be true.

you truly are an ass.

grab a LAW DICTIONARY, (that's the thick book by what they wrote "the law") and look up the word COMMON

legal precedent is called CASE law.

fuck. it's on google. must be true.

again, you are an ass.

[FJRider]

fuck. it's on wikipedia. must be true.

you truly are an ass.




If you've said it ... it must be bullshit.

[CookMySock]

The govt is not going to allow any competition to its own drug business - theres too much money at stake.

[marmel]

The govt is not going to allow any competition to its own drug business - theres too much money at stake.

If the numbers are accurate about the number of cannabis users I don't think money would be an issue, the government could tax the crap out of it if it became a legal drug.

[gammaguy]

I have a slightly different take on this than the average pot head does.
First off,I don't really care if people want to make their lives more bareable by either smoking weed or getting shit faced on booze.
But I also don't mind in the lest seeing old names getting busted and being taken off the streets.
One name in particular came up this week,,one willie wong tung,30 year monkey mob member.
Numerous convictions for violence,drug dealing,car and motorcycle thefts,rape and a few others I can't recall.
It's been a long time ago I had any contact with the shit head so I haven't kept up with what he's been up to since then,but yeah I remember him well.
Anyway his latest great idea was to use whanau ora funds to buy 3lbs of weed.
Got busted on the cook straight ferry while transporting it to the south island.
Then there were the two busted with a house and several sheds FULL of weed out at Whatawhata this week,,,not totaly sure yet,but I think I know both those arsewipes as well.
So the cops have taken them out of the loop,,,if any of you had met these people you'd also agree it was a bloody good thing.
You think the weed laws had anything to do with how these people live their lives,,forget it.
If weed was legal these scum would just be doing something else illegal to make money.
And by the way,,who ever bought it up,the police are doing well in their war with P.
Currently supplies are at an all time low in AK and "some people" are finding it so hard to find they have pushed the price of a point up to $120+.
Quite frankly if the weed laws take even one willie fucking wong tung off our streets,I don't care how much it costs.

clearly,and as usual,the dope smoking free love peace and anarchy hippies still dont get it.

Drugs are a convenient flag for the coppers,because they know that the guys that sell it and supply it are almost always involved in other criminal activities as well.Until this changes(as if)they will continue to use the drugs laws as a convenient"please kick me"sign tatooed on the ass of every stupid criminal out there.

good for them.

[ducatilover]

Bitches be trippin. That's solid bloody gold, I ran out of rep shit though


clearly,and as usual,the dope smoking free love peace and anarchy hippies still dont get it.



;) 'Tis the way. SMOKEU has a pretty good grasp on grammar though, for a neo-Nazi.

Everything on the interwebs be trueness, so I'll drop this here
http://www.briancbennett.com/charts/death/01pot-related.htm

Might have to grow me some tobacco while I'm at it, thanks for the reminder chaps.
This thread is shit.

[mashman]

clearly,and as usual,the dope smoking free love peace and anarchy hippies still dont get it.

Drugs are a convenient flag for the coppers,because they know that the guys that sell it and supply it are almost always involved in other criminal activities as well.Until this changes(as if)they will continue to use the drugs laws as a convenient"please kick me"sign tatooed on the ass of every stupid criminal out there.

good for them.

Would they be doing the "extras" if it meant that they could lose their growers licence? or is everyone happy with their little stereotypes which allows them to park their brian (yes brian, no I'm brian, no I'm brian, I'm brian (baaaa)) in neutral? Until then we'll just keep banging fuckloads of cash into enforcement and incarceration instead of instantly turning the cannabis "criminal" into a tax paying, productive, out of jail citizen, off the benefit, wheelin and dealin business man.

Good on them, the world needs more brians.

[nodrog]

http://www.ducati.ms/forums/attachments/road-racing/111908d1339052498-yet-another-reason-dislike-stoner-casey-crying.jpg

[mashman]

http://www.ducati.ms/forums/attachments/road-racing/111908d1339052498-yet-another-reason-dislike-stoner-casey-crying.jpg

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01374/life-of-brian_1374284c.jpg

[flyingcrocodile46]

Looks like Stoner has been watching the olympics. Listening to Sky news (oz) last night it looks like the Aussie press is all set to bury their olympic squad already.:lol:

[FJRider]

Would they be doing the "extras" if it meant that they could lose their growers licence? or is everyone happy with their little stereotypes which allows them to park their brian (yes brian, no I'm brian, no I'm brian, I'm brian (baaaa)) in neutral? Until then we'll just keep banging fuckloads of cash into enforcement and incarceration instead of instantly turning the cannabis "criminal" into a tax paying, productive, out of jail citizen, off the benefit, wheelin and dealin business man.

Good on them, the world needs more brians.

A law change to allow the growing for personal use only ... with the penalty's for "under the influence of" and "supply" increased .... I would agree with.

[mashman]

A law change to allow the growing for personal use only ... with the penalty's for "under the influence of" and "supply" increased .... I would agree with.

Almost agree... I'd rather we used the existing supply chain. Use the expertise that's available, after all it ain't just plant and leave to grow, well not really. Get some folk off the dole, keep some folk out of jail, keep some folk away from the Police (or vice versa, heh) and open it up to taxation. win win win win. Much better than leaving some folk on the dole, putting those selling it in jail, tying up the Police and making feck all from it, which be lose lose lose lose... I agree with influenced at work/driving/similar to booze etc... the "market' will control the supply and remove the need, as much as can be removed, of the black market that we currently have. Use some of the tax to fund honest medical research (none of that one eyed shit) for providing guidance for the industry. Have the growers, as part of the conditions, grow hemp so that new products can compete in the marketplace... after all that's why it became illegal in the first place. They should be the terms else we run the risk of changing next to nothing and half arseing what could be a sensible use of everyone's time and money for a change. What could possibly go wrong?

[FJRider]

Almost agree... I'd rather we used the existing supply chain. Use the expertise that's available, after all it ain't just plant and leave to grow, well not really. Get some folk off the dole, keep some folk out of jail, keep some folk away from the Police (or vice versa, heh) and open it up to taxation. win win win win.

Those that can and will grow their own will (can) learn. WINZ paid hort classes at your local polytech .... Win win ... :lol:

Gives the "growers" a legitimate qualification too ... :yes:

[mashman]

Those that can and will grow their own will (can) learn. WINZ paid hort classes at your local polytech .... Win win ... :lol:

Gives the "growers" a legitimate qualification too ... :yes:

True, but not everyone will want to grow it themselves. Same as all of drinkers don't make their own or smokers blend their own baccy... Damn we're up to 6 WINZ already. Absolutely love the qualification idea... would bling but can't again

[FJRider]

True, but not everyone will want to grow it themselves. Same as all of drinkers don't make their own or smokers blend their own baccy... Damn we're up to 6 WINZ already. Absolutely love the qualification idea... would bling but can't again

It would make the lazy more liable ... with the home grown dope-head out of the court system. Not even a "petty crime" anymore.

With the market of the existing "suppliers" ... dropping considerably ...

[mashman]

It would make the lazy more liable ... with the home grown dope-head out of the court system. Not even a "petty crime" anymore.

With the market of the existing "suppliers" ... dropping considerably ...

Aye, the lazy fook could spend his dope cash on food for his kids if he could grow his own... OMG that's can't be right.

Nothing wrong with a little competition... as long as I get to make my living judging the quality

[flyingcrocodile46]

It's just a matter of time before it will be decriminalised. Common sense will prevail as more and more police and politicians come to realise that criminals don't supply drugs because they think that people should be allowed to partake in using them. They do it solely because of the consistent demand and the huge income stream that can be achieved by supplying an illegal product at a premium price (simply because it is illegal and the market is too fearful of the repercussions to supply itself).

If personal use and growing (for personal use) was decriminalised the arse would drop out of the market and the criminals will loose interest. They would lose the easiest source of income that they have ever had. Surely starving them out of existence is the best way to neutralise them.

[scumdog]

If personal use and growing (for personal use) was decriminalised the arse would drop out of the market and the criminals will loose interest. They would lose the easiest source of income that they have ever had. Surely starving them out of existence is the best way to neutralise them.

And maybe, just maybe the dealers might move onto selling a more 'trendy' drug instead of cannabis...:shutup:

[flyingcrocodile46]

And maybe, just maybe the dealers might move onto selling a more 'trendy' drug instead of cannabis...:shutup:


Of course that is what they would set out to do (after all crims have very limited imaginations) but that would also happen if policing efforts were actually effective enough to achieve the goal of reducing the supply of weed to a trickle. So quite obviously it is an outcome that has already been accepted as a viable risk.

What ever product they come up with will have to compete with a near legal and much cheaper and more accessible alternative (weed). Won't be as easier road for them

I know weed smokers who buy from people selling P. They don't like P and dislike the fact that their dealer sells it. What do you think the chances are of them dobbing in the supplier of their weed so they can do their bit to discourage the use of P?

[blue rider]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/602535_265467436886400_1264231265_n.jpg

[Madness]

And maybe, just maybe the dealers might move onto selling a more 'trendy' drug instead of cannabis...:shutup:

Like tobacco?

[ducatilover]

Almost agree... I'd rather we used the existing supply chain. Use the expertise that's available, after all it ain't just plant and leave to grow, well not really. Get some folk off the dole, keep some folk out of jail, keep some folk away from the Police (or vice versa, heh) and open it up to taxation. win win win win. Much better than leaving some folk on the dole, putting those selling it in jail, tying up the Police and making feck all from it, which be lose lose lose lose... I agree with influenced at work/driving/similar to booze etc... the "market' will control the supply and remove the need, as much as can be removed, of the black market that we currently have. Use some of the tax to fund honest medical research (none of that one eyed shit) for providing guidance for the industry. Have the growers, as part of the conditions, grow hemp so that new products can compete in the marketplace... after all that's why it became illegal in the first place. They should be the terms else we run the risk of changing next to nothing and half arseing what could be a sensible use of everyone's time and money for a change. What could possibly go wrong?

Let's do the same thing with heroin, acid or P, it's all about freedom of choice anyhoo, why not?

:bleh:

[mashman]

Surely starving them out of existence is the best way to neutralise them.


(after all crims have very limited imaginations)

Are you a criminal?

[flyingcrocodile46]

Let's do the same thing with heroin, acid or P, it's all about freedom of choice anyhoo, why not?

:bleh:


No. It's about intelligent choices.

[flyingcrocodile46]

Are you a criminal?

Most certainly. Are you looking for a supply network?

[Looks for scummy]

[ducatilover]

No. It's about intelligent choices.

Well, that's boring.

[flyingcrocodile46]

Well, that's boring.

That's why grown ups do this sort of stuff for you ;)

[mashman]

Let's do the same thing with heroin, acid or P, it's all about freedom of choice anyhoo, why not?

:bleh:

I have no problem with that :headbang:... they already do needle exchanges under the guise of safety, why not have the production of the really fun drugs quality controlled too... I mean bad drugs, bad, not advocating them at all, not in any way, terrible terrbile things, zero fun to be had. Til then free the weed and save us all some cash.

[mashman]

Most certainly. Are you looking for a supply network?

[Looks for scummy]

:rofl: nahhhhhh, I know where to get it if I really want it... I generally don't miss it (my wife does and she doesn't take the stuff)

[ducatilover]

That's why grown ups do this sort of stuff for you ;) Are you calling me short?


I have no problem with that :headbang:... they already do needle exchanges under the guise of safety, why not have the production of the really fun drugs quality controlled too... I mean bad drugs, bad, not advocating them at all, not in any way, terrible terrbile things, zero fun to be had. Til then free the weed and save us all some cash.

Won't be saving me any cash, drop the price of fags (no, not the Honda ones) and I'll be happy too.
I've actually thought a fair bit in to this whole legalising greengrass shit, and I'll happily sell it if it's legal :lol: only problem is I hate the smell of it, smoked or not

[mashman]

Won't be saving me any cash, drop the price of fags (no, not the Honda ones) and I'll be happy too.
I've actually thought a fair bit in to this whole legalising greengrass shit, and I'll happily sell it if it's legal :lol: only problem is I hate the smell of it, smoked or not

Some of us work for a living and would appreciate our hard earned going to legitimate growing enterprises :eek:
I couldn't be arsed, not even by you sweety, but would happily follow you around with my fingers up your nostrils so that you don't have to smell it. Pay me extra and I'll scratch my arse with both fingers and not wash my hands before we start.

[FJRider]

No. It's about intelligent choices.

You need intelligent people to make intelligent choices .... :brick:

[Subike]

Use some of the tax to fund honest medical research (none of that one eyed shit) for providing guidance for the industry. Have the growers, as part of the conditions, grow hemp so that new products can compete in the marketplace... after all that's why it became illegal in the first place. They should be the terms else we run the risk of changing next to nothing and half arseing what could be a sensible use of everyone's time and money for a change. What could possibly go wrong?

correct me if I am wrong, but
was it not the American cotton farmers, who were using slaves as free labor who approached the American government to outlaw hemp so they could ensure the sales of their Legally grown new product?

And that was the beginning of the world wide prohibition of hemp?

To bolster the pockets of the rich, who paid bribes to the politicians, ( hold on, that sounds normal to me somehow )
All done for the cotton industry? Which legally owned slaves?

weird,

[ducatilover]

Some of us work for a living and would appreciate our hard earned going to legitimate growing enterprises :eek:
I couldn't be arsed, not even by you sweety, but would happily follow you around with my fingers up your nostrils so that you don't have to smell it. Pay me extra and I'll scratch my arse with both fingers and not wash my hands before we start.

:2thumbsup You're a chum, don't give me pink eye.
Legitimate growing enterprises eh? Sounds catchy, I imagine the oppoturnity for more jobs in the...erm horticulture sector would pop up

[FJRider]

I imagine the oppoturnity for more jobs in the...erm horticulture sector would pop up

And level 4-6 dope growing at the local Polytechnic (NZQA approved of course)

[mashman]

correct me if I am wrong, but
was it not the American cotton farmers, who were using slaves as free labor who approached the American government to outlaw hemp so they could ensure the sales of their Legally grown new product?

And that was the beginning of the world wide prohibition of hemp?

To bolster the pockets of the rich, who paid bribes to the politicians, ( hold on, that sounds normal to me somehow )
All done for the cotton industry? Which legally owned slaves?

weird,

That's the first time I've heard about the cotton trade being dragged into it... I thought that was more to do with the Civil War, although it may well have cropped (snigger) up under the hemp guise too. From the many sites I've read (yes, the internet, heh) it seems that it was industry/manufacturing lobbyists that wanted it banned as hemp could be used to make something like 25,000 products including fuel. Mr Diesel having an engine that could run on hemp seed oil (claimed to be more efficient) and the oil oil folk producing petroleum. Add to that the textile industry (cotton?) and food industry and it was pretty much a done deal. Tis where reefer madness comes from scaring the population into believing that stoners would rape and pillage their way from town to town.

[mashman]

:2thumbsup You're a chum, don't give me pink eye.
Legitimate growing enterprises eh? Sounds catchy, I imagine the oppoturnity for more jobs in the...erm horticulture sector would pop up

Wouldn't dream of it... whilst yer conscious

[ducatilover]

And level 4-6 dope growing at the local Polytechnic (NZQA approved of course)

Which still won't get you a job...

[mashman]

Which still won't get you a job...

At least it would be a transferable skill

[ducatilover]

At least it would be a transferable skill

Very true, I could get tips from one of these fellows on baccy growing?
I'm keen to give it a go (baccy, not whacky)

[mashman]

Very true, I could get tips from one of these fellows on baccy growing?
I'm keen to give it a go (baccy, not whacky)

From what I've read growing tobacco is relatively easy. You can grab bags of seeds for $5 or so off of tardme. Unfortunately I live on a clay mound and I'd need a serious digger and a few K's worth of soil to get a crop growing... kinda not worth it :(. Think blackdog was talking about giving it a crack.

[flyingcrocodile46]

From what I've read growing tobacco is relatively easy. You can grab bags of seeds for $5 or so off of tardme. Unfortunately I live on a clay mound and I'd need a serious digger and a few K's worth of soil to get a crop growing... kinda not worth it :(. Think blackdog was talking about giving it a crack.


FFS. A dozen big paint buckets and a 5 or 10 metre length of 4 metre wide clear 250 micron polythene draped and pegged over a 10mm rope strung between a couple of trees. Pinch the ends together and you're under way. How hard or expensive is that?

[avgas]

This thread makes me want to have a joint.
sounds like you had some horrible motorcycle accidents.
http://www.jtbourne.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/shamus-300x205.jpg

[avgas]

And level 4-6 dope growing at the local Polytechnic (NZQA approved of course)
You mean Seventh Form Hort at Kati College.............errr I mean I have no idea of what your talking about :Oi:

[mashman]

FFS. A dozen big paint buckets and a 5 or 10 metre length of 4 metre wide clear 250 micron polythene draped and pegged over a 10mm rope strung between a couple of trees. Pinch the ends together and you're under way. How hard or expensive is that?

I don't have a any trees and live in a high wind area often adorned with trampolines from a few doors away... me unleashing 40 square metres of wood and polythene on the world is really not advisable and could see me up on murder charges. If anything I attempt to build turns out to last longer than a week it's nothing more than sheer luck... but I take your point.

[FJRider]

I don't have a any trees and live in a high wind area often adorned with trampolines from a few doors away... me unleashing 40 square metres of wood and polythene on the world is really not advisable and could see me up on murder charges. If anything I attempt to build turns out to last longer than a week it's nothing more than sheer luck... but I take your point.

Try growing indoors ... a lot of the commercial growers ( gangs ) have a great deal of success in this.

[ducatilover]

FFS. A dozen big paint buckets and a 5 or 10 metre length of 4 metre wide clear 250 micron polythene draped and pegged over a 10mm rope strung between a couple of trees. Pinch the ends together and you're under way. How hard or expensive is that? Thank you muchly :2thumbsup great idea, the cows might eat it all though


Try growing indoors ... a lot of the commercial growers ( gangs ) have a great deal of success in this.

I'll look in to this too

[mashman]

Try growing indoors ... a lot of the commercial growers ( gangs ) have a great deal of success in this.

:rofl:... I'm gonna need a bigger house and an off grid power supply. I grew a tomato plant and some broccoli hydroponically in my bedroom and even built a cheap grow lamp (was cool but not powerful enough). The Broccoli attracted some form of larvae so got kicked out. The tom plant was feckin superb although the missus drew the line at my grand plan :laugh:... can't say I blame her either, ya'd be needin a pee all night. Either way I need more space.

[FJRider]

:rofl:... I'm gonna need a bigger house and an off grid power supply.

Grow an Orchid or two for the missus ... and she wont mind the power bill ... :whistle:

[avgas]

grab a LAW DICTIONARY, (that's the thick book by what they wrote "the law") and look up the word COMMON
legal precedent is called CASE law.



I don't think very many people on her know the difference between ""common"" law and ""corporate"" law.
It would be interesting to see how many do.
The maharajah laws are under the corporate banner .

Got a bit curious about this - as I imagined giant companies of dope smoking legal types. With massive buildings and the like.
So I thought I better look it up. So looking up on the shelf of structural supporting objects that some refer to as "books", while I couldn't find said law dictionary.......its probably with that brittanicca set that dissappeared in the 90's. I did find "Priciples of Law for NZ Biz Students" by Hubbard, Thomas and Varn. Probably not the best book for the jobs.......but after a quick look though it (with these comments in the back of my mind) and I seem to have some questions.

Seems that Common law, is based of past case law. But VERY old case law - as its effectively passed from the days of old and updated accordingly. In NZ's case the common law is based on cases over the last few hundred years in Europe.
So case law now = common law in future. The only exception of this has been "the kings orders".

As for it being corporate law. Not sure how - The misuse of drugs ACT was enforced by Parliament. Making it Criminal Law. (http://www.lawcom.govt.nz/project/review-misuse-drugs-act-1975). In fact I don't see it anywhere in companies act, financial transaction reporting act.........in any of the business acts. There is a mention of it in OSH act, but only that you should send them home.
Not that the government can change any law it wishes, and even override other laws. Its the glory of Parliamentary law.

Now not saying I am some kind of Law guru - or even that this was the right book for the task. But fail to see how the argument that its corporate law is correct. Happy to be shown how it fits corporate law.
The argument is pretty invalid stating that its not in Common Law, there is lots that not in there. But that doesn't make items that aren't common law legal.

Perhaps there is a lawyer-type on here who could explain how dope smoking falls under corporate law, or how something not being under common law means its "not as illegal".
Once again I don't care who smokes, I used too. And I do think the law is silly. But I also respect that it is the law. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time. The law is just another compromise, and any smart person will tell you a compromise is whenever both parties lose something.
We lost the right to smoke dope, they lost the right to tax us for it.

[avgas]

I'll look in to this too
most SWITCHED ON GARDNERs do

[ducatilover]

most SWITCHED ON GARDNERs do

Don't associate me with those soggy brained idiots.
I'm mad without the drugs (I have certificates to prove it)

[Subike]

Got a bit curious about this - as I imagined giant companies of dope smoking legal types. With massive buildings and the like.
So I thought I better look it up. So looking up on the shelf of structural supporting objects that some refer to as "books", while I couldn't find said law dictionary.......its probably with that brittanicca set that dissappeared in the 90's. I did find "Priciples of Law for NZ Biz Students" by Hubbard, Thomas and Varn. Probably not the best book for the jobs.......but after a quick look though it (with these comments in the back of my mind) and I seem to have some questions.

Seems that Common law, is based of past case law. But VERY old case law - as its effectively passed from the days of old and updated accordingly. In NZ's case the common law is based on cases over the last few hundred years in Europe.
So case law now = common law in future. The only exception of this has been "the kings orders".

As for it being corporate law. Not sure how - The misuse of drugs ACT was enforced by Parliament. Making it Criminal Law. (http://www.lawcom.govt.nz/project/review-misuse-drugs-act-1975). In fact I don't see it anywhere in companies act, financial transaction reporting act.........in any of the business acts. There is a mention of it in OSH act, but only that you should send them home.
Not that the government can change any law it wishes, and even override other laws. Its the glory of Parliamentary law.

Now not saying I am some kind of Law guru - or even that this was the right book for the task. But fail to see how the argument that its corporate law is correct. Happy to be shown how it fits corporate law.
The argument is pretty invalid stating that its not in Common Law, there is lots that not in there. But that doesn't make items that aren't common law legal.

Perhaps there is a lawyer-type on here who could explain how dope smoking falls under corporate law, or how something not being under common law means its "not as illegal".
Once again I don't care who smokes, I used too. And I do think the law is silly. But I also respect that it is the law. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time. The law is just another compromise, and any smart person will tell you a compromise is whenever both parties lose something.
We lost the right to smoke dope, they lost the right to tax us for it.

the government is a corporation
you become a subject of the government when your parents sign you over to them they day they get your birth certificate.( subject could also loosely be called slave)
What?
If you do not have a birth certificate, or citizenship, you have no right to the protection of the government( the corporation) or it laws,
You are not entitled to the benefits of that corporation without the birth cert, or citizenship papers, but you can get a visa, that allows you the rights to these laws while visiting the country for a specific time,...

[mashman]

Grow an Orchid or two for the missus ... and she wont mind the power bill ... :whistle:

heh heh heh... maybe just go straight for the triffids :2thumbsup

[Akzle]

Great, ANOTHER pointless KB rant thread to ignore, classic KB fare...:crazy:
then... why didn't you ignore it??

Drugs are a convenient flag for the coppers,...use the drugs laws as a convenient"please kick me"sign tatooed on the ass of every stupid criminal out there.

this is probably the most sensible argument put forward from that camp yet. well and good. unfortunately the higher crimes (ones that might actually require real work, and protect civvvies, burglary, ie) don't carry higher penalties. unfortunately also, the cannabis cases clog up the system, cost a fuckload of money and rarely result in any change to the criminality of those involved.


correct me if I am wrong, but
was it not the American cotton farmers, ...

that may be so, and there has been much speculation on the causes. personally, and it could well be tied in, i think it was racially motivated policy, the dark folk smoked hooch (whitey skolled booze and did dumb shit), and obviously you needed a reason to whomp your dark folk after slavery was tut-tutted, (in the grand old divided states of embarrassment) and it carried on 'round the world...
it was used for centuries as tincture/medication, by nuns and all (they were the ones who originally bought it to NZ, as medication, in the late 19th century)
and acre for acre it's about 10x as profitable as corn. also, last time i read i think it was some 30% of america's GDP. america's a funny case, though, because it'd banned by federal law, yet their government spends $$ on genetically modifying some of the best grass on that side of the world (afghany's will trump it anyday... their's is some POTENT shit - guess you need it when you're jockeying your camels in and out the caves trying to avoid the occupation of yank forces.)


Very true, I could get tips from one of these fellows on baccy growing?
I'm keen to give it a go (baccy, not whacky)
i can provide seeds, indeed will, for free. (PM your addy or PO box or come for a ride and get some)

originally grown up home (whangarei) then sent to family in wgtn, then to akl, and again back up home.. so fairly well acclimatised.


"Priciples of Law for NZ Biz Students" by Hubbard, Thomas and Varn. Probably not the best book for the jobs.......but after a quick look though it (with these comments in the back of my mind) and I seem to have some questions.

Seems that Common law, is based of past case law. But VERY old case law - as its effectively passed from the days of old and updated accordingly. In NZ's case the common law is based on cases over the last few hundred years in Europe.
if "the system" worked, this would be the case. if the governments, as they were intended wrote the will of the people into legislation, then every case would reflect the common. as it is, we have a government dictating down to us, passing legislation opposed by 86%,
"law" is no longer for every man, "law" is some hundreds of thousands of pages of legalese.
so here's from bouvier's law dictionary (can't find my blacks!!)


COMMON LAW. That which derives its force and authority from the universal
consent and immemorial practice of the people.
so.. since 86% of people practice hitting their kids, and have for time immemorial, should it not be LAW, just so?
since people have been drunk in public, driven vehicles over the speed limit, and have for time immemorial, should it not be LAW?


LAW. In its most general and comprehensive sense, law signifies a rule of action; and this term is applied indiscriminately to all kinds of action;
whether animate or inanimate, rational or irrational.
2. Law is generally divided into four principle classes, namely;
Natural law, the law of nations, public law, and private or civil law. When
considered in relation to its origin, it is statute law or common law. When
examined as to its different systems it is divided into civil law, common
law, canon law. When applied to objects, it is civil, criminal, or penal. It
is also divided into natural law and positive law. Into written law, lex
scripta; and unwritten law, lex non scripta. Into law merchant, martial law,
municipal law, and foreign law. When considered as to their duration, laws
are immutable and arbitrary or positive; when as their effect, they are
prospective and retrospective. These will be separately considered.

LAW, ARBITRARY. An arbitrary law is one made by the legislator simply
because he wills it, and is not founded in the nature of things; such law,
for example, as the tariff law, which may be high or low. This term is used
in opposition to immutable.

LAW, COMMON. The common law is that which derives its force and authority
from the universal consent and immemorial practice of the people. It has
never received the sanction of the legislature, by an express act, which is
the criterion by which it is distinguished from the statute law.

((hey FJ - eat a dick)) googled yourself a law dictionary yet?


So case law now = common law in future. The only exception of this has been "the kings orders".
the "kings orders" = royal decree. (arbitrary law) the kings order's were perfectly valid under the system of monarchy, however, since the Magna Carta (great charter of human rights etc) they have been null and void. The Magna carta was a turning point in legislature, given that it was forced upon the then-king (sometime early 13th century i believe) BY THE PEOPLE. they stood up and said "we're sick of your shit, here's what's happening or we're gonna burn you out of this castle" and so it was. (about time for another one eh?)
And where the american government was formed constitutionally, (the constitution was their people's "great charter") they are lumped with it. the fact that the govt has gone fucking haywire and sold themselves to world banks et al, well. another matter.
the NZ government WAS NOT constitutionally formed. they have de-facto status/sovereignty, on account of no-one (except the treaty signatories) actually agreed to it initially. it continues this status because people keep turning up to the elections and encouraging the bastards.

As for it being corporate law. Not sure how - The misuse of drugs ACT was enforced by Parliament. Making it Criminal Law.
i believe the word you mean is ENACTED not enforced.
and that DOES NOT make it criminal law. criminal law requires a crime. a crime requires an injured party.
listen to the dotcom crap for the words they use "he has been injurious to our brand/ company" etc
-how the fuck can someone injure something that exists only on paper?? at any rate, any case tried, or man accused, is generally done in a CIVIL situation. fines, infringements etc. all CIVIL matters, as no-one has been injured. (if you ever get to court for a "crime", ask for the injured party to come forward, a man has a right to face his accuser)


Now not saying I am some kind of Law guru - or even that this was the right book for the task. But fail to see how the argument that its corporate law is correct. Happy to be shown how it fits corporate law.
this was fair answered by the other guy who knows what he's talking about. however, my 0.02c:

i would use the word commercial law, not corporate. however, for commerce to occur, you need corporations. i've explained this elsewhere and it was ticked off by that other guy, your NAME (capitus diminutio) is NOT you as you stand (a man.)
your NAME represents a CORPORATE FICTION (look up the interpretation act definition of "person") (come on FJ, whats'it say?)
you'll find that your NAME/=the PERSON ,is the corporation, which is dealing in commerce (by it's very nature) and thus can be charged with full commercial liability. if you accept that you ARE that NAME, you accept the rights/duties/responsibilities of that corporation. one of those duties is to bend over and take it like a bitch in their court.
the corporation/NAME is under their jurisdiction, the man is not.


Perhaps there is a lawyer-type on here who could explain how dope smoking falls under corporate law, or how something not being under common law means its "not as illegal".

as above. common law would dictate that people can buy/sell/smoke/grow/trade as much dope/opium/meth/ketamine/MDMA/DMT/cattle/tobacco etc etc as they like.
because that's what common people have been doing for fucken ages, (well before the legislation, in fact)
if the man accepts responsibility for the corporation, formed under the government's legislation, he accepts the rights, duties, et al.

you don't need to be a lawyer type. you need a good lot of free time, plenty of coffee (a few joints doesn't hurt), a law dicitonary (sorry FJ, google doesn't cut it) and enough bandwidth to troll legislation.govt.nz and decipher the bullshit.

[avgas]

criminal law requires a crime. a crime requires an injured party.
listen to the dotcom crap for the words they use "he has been injurious to our brand/ company" etc
-how the fuck can someone injure something that exists only on paper?? at any rate, any case tried, or man accused, is generally done in a CIVIL situation. fines, infringements etc. all CIVIL matters, as no-one has been injured. (if you ever get to court for a "crime", ask for the injured party to come forward, a man has a right to face his accuser)
Will re-look into the rest of this post later, suffering from man-flu.
But Possession is a crime. It does not injured party - in fact a good 50% of the law is based around potential to injure.
Don't believe me, grab a big knife and dance around town. You could be a butcher in a butchery, but it won't matter a damn as you have caused "Potential to cause harm" which is enough.
Get in your car - high as a kite and drive below the speed limit. Don't be surprised if your picked up within 5 minutes. The cops won't know the fact that your high as a kite..........they will be pulling you over due to the fact that you are showing signs that you could cause harm.

I personally believe that MJ on its own is not dangerous, but I also understand the lack of self control of some people. Sometimes its good to give the cops a reason to save the rest of us.
I think some cops also hold this mentality. Speeding, drugs, firearms etc are simply an excuse for these guys to nab someone who could harm others.
In these situations the accuser is represented by the police. But they are representing the people. For right or wrong this is the way it is done.
Don't like it - convince the rest of NZ that it needs to change. That's how it got there in the first place. Don't forget that a court of law, was established by the people, for the people. If you want that gone, you have to remove it the same way.

Just forget, sometimes the police joined the force - not to enforce the laws, but to save peoples lives. And many do it on a daily basis. Sometimes that means taking not so nice people off the streets...........who just happen to also have drugs. But you and I know that if you don't put yourself on their radar - they leave you alone.
Just like everything else in life.

[Akzle]

...But Possession is a crime.

... you could cause harm.

...a court of law, was established by the people, for the people.

1) no it isn't. it's an infringement of legislation. /civil offence.

2) i could do as much harm with a ball point pen (it's why they chain them down at the bank y'know)

3) not it wasn't. a "court of law" is a disputes resolution arena. notably, today's courts are based on a) admiralty law (where the captain of the ship (judge) rules on matters his crew bring before him and dishes out whips/rations/duties accordingly) and/or b) administration of corporate trust accounts.

[avgas]

1) no it isn't. it's an infringement of legislation. /civil offence.
Then why are you arguing for decriminalization?

[Drew]

Then why are you arguing for decriminalization?

Oooohhhhh, a possible crack (I'm not reading through pages of green text to see if he actually has used that term, or said legalise). Quick people, get a wedge in there to keep it open before it closes.

[SMOKEU]

Very true, I could get tips from one of these fellows on baccy growing?
I'm keen to give it a go (baccy, not whacky)

Start NOW as our growing season is short. Sprinkle some tobacco seeds on top of potting mix in small pots (don't cover the seeds with soil) and grow them in a sunny windowsill for the next 2 months. Then, plant them outdoors in the ground in an area with full sun, and water them regularly. Chop the suckers off as soon as they appear. You want the plants about 1m apart from one another. Don't try to grow too many plants in a small area.

When sprinkling the seeds, sprinkle them VERY lightly as even half a teaspoon of seeds will be enough for several hundred plants.

[Akzle]

Then why are you arguing for decriminalization?

who is?
i don't give a FF what their rules are. i'm'a do my own thang. :doobey:

and FWIW i would argue for full scale "legalisation" of pretty much every drug.
who's going to bother associating with teh gangs if they can buy good heroin at the corner dairy? at a stated dose, regulated price and consistent known quality?

and why oh why, do doctors get to prescribe pretty much the same drugs in the name of medicine? is it so terrible that people should use them for recreation?

[Drew]

How is the donuts thing not off topic?

Anyhoo, Akzle, do you advocate decriminalising the ganja, or legalising?

[ducatilover]

who's going to bother associating with teh gangs if they can buy good heroin at the corner dairy? at a stated dose, regulated price and consistent known quality?


Poeple who want the same product cheaper.

[Akzle]

holly whut.

i'm sure i just said "legalise everything".

muh.
..."i don't care what their rules are, i'm'a do whut i wants. for who would interact with gangs if you can go down to the dairy and pick up heroin, at a regulated price, set dosage, consistent quality?
and why should doctors be able to prescribe it "medicinally", is it so terrible that people should use it recreationally?"

[Akzle]

i've lost all sense of what is happening now. posts coming and going.

anyhow. 'catlover - the market will set the price then eh? supply and demand whut..

[ducatilover]

i've lost all sense of what is happening now. posts coming and going.

anyhow. 'catlover - the market will set the price then eh? supply and demand whut..

I just wanted to say something smart arse esque. ;)

[mashman]

Poeple who want the same product cheaper.

We'll just import that shit from China... easy as bro.

[ducatilover]

We'll just import that shit from China... easy as bro.

Nah, it'll be cheap shit. Flour in our coke and stuff

[mashman]

Nah, it'll be cheap shit. Flour in our coke and stuff

Sorry, if I'm paying top $$$ for the good stuff you're gonna have to takes yer chances with the cheap shit... that's fair and the way things are.

[ducatilover]

Sorry, if I'm paying top $$$ for the good stuff you're gonna have to takes yer chances with the cheap shit... that's fair and the way things are.

But won't we be sending our stuff over there, whilst still buying the average quality goods here for inflated prices? Sorry, economics isn't my thing, it's a bike site after all.

[mashman]

But won't we be sending our stuff over there, whilst still buying the average quality goods here for inflated prices? Sorry, economics isn't my thing, it's a bike site after all.

FFS seriously? it's KB. Bullshit it man, no one ever checks nuffin. No, we won't be sending our good stuff over there as we're gonna change the business model. Having said that, it'll be top notch grass :shifty: we send them, top notch I say...

[ducatilover]

FFS seriously? it's KB. Bullshit it man, no one ever checks nuffin. No, we won't be sending our good stuff over there as we're gonna change the business model. Having said that, it'll be top notch grass :shifty: we send them, top notch I say...

Raugh out roud!

[Akzle]

FFS seriously? it's KB. Bullshit it man, no one ever checks nuffin. No, we won't be sending our good stuff over there as we're gonna change the business model. Having said that, it'll be top notch grass :shifty: we send them, top notch I say...

i refuse sir!

i'm keeping the good stuff for me an' the broz, bro!

[Drew]

i refuse sir!

i'm keeping the good stuff for me an' the broz, bro!


Psst, I think his true colours have been showing all along fellas.

[Akzle]

Psst, I think his true colours have been showing all along fellas.

yeah. GREEN :D :D

[mashman]

i refuse sir!

i'm keeping the good stuff for me an' the broz, bro!

that's just typical of people these days... all tit for tat... just coz we buy their cheap ass shit, doesn't mean that we shouldn't send them our best rye grass.

[blue rider]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzNosK82NSs

[Akzle]

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57487324-504083/vt-man-accused-of-crushing-cop-cars-with-tractor-gets-$50k-bail/

oh but another reason as to why they shouldn't be enforcing that policy...:D
LEGEND

(US cop shops are fitted with bullet proof glass... howsat)

[avgas]

why oh why, do doctors get to prescribe pretty much the same drugs in the name of medicine?
I am guessing it has something to with the letters PHD.
What letters do you have after you name?

Not saying they are gods gift to the world. But you have to give them acknowledgement for going out there and getting those letters. It's not an easy thing to do.

[scumdog]

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57487324-504083/vt-man-accused-of-crushing-cop-cars-with-tractor-gets-$50k-bail/

oh but another reason as to why they shouldn't be enforcing that policy...:D
LEGEND

(US cop shops are fitted with bullet proof glass... howsat)

Nah, somethings wrong, can't be right, stoners are so laid back and peaceful....:whistle:

[mashman]

Nah, somethings wrong, can't be right, stoners are so laid back and peaceful....:whistle:

Unless they're itchin for a fix coz de coppas have busted their dealer... then they're absolutely psychotic

[Akzle]

I am guessing it has something to with the letters PHD.
What letters do you have after you name?

Not saying they are gods gift to the world. But you have to give them acknowledgement for going out there and getting those letters. It's not an easy thing to do.

people put all sorts of letters after my name. i like the ones i-s- a-w-e-s-o-m-e.

but soooooo fkn what. i can spill long words with the best of em, i can shoot crack with the best of em, too.
i thinks the point was, if these drugs have therapeutic benefit, can not (should not) adults be allowed enjoy the benefit recreationally?

[flyingcrocodile46]

people put all sorts of letters after my name. i like the ones i-s- a-w-e-s-o-m-e.

but soooooo fkn what. i can spill long words with the best of em, i can shoot crack with the best of em, too.
i thinks the point was, if these drugs have therapeutic benefit, can not (should not) adults be allowed enjoy the benefit recreationally?


Not when an individuals selfish indulgence jeopardises the health and welfare of others (incl family). Fact of the matter is that many people have no discipline or self control and their selfishness and weakness sees other people suffer, so hence why society needs to intervene. Do you understand and agree with this point?

When it comes to using P," the best of them" are still losers who will ultimately inflict suffering of some sort on other people. So excuse me if I consider your seemingly proud association with such self indulgent wankers as an indication of the weight (or lack thereof) which I might attribute to your opinions.

[Drew]

When it comes to using P," the best of them" are still losers who will ultimately inflict suffering of some sort on other people. So excuse me if I consider your seemingly proud association with such self indulgent wankers as an indication of the weight (or lack thereof) which I might attribute to your opinions.Spoken by someone who has swallowed whole, the tripe that anyone using p is a psyco with no control over it's usage.

You can spout whatever you want about it, but you would be very surprised at some of the people who use a class drugs recreationally, without any adverse effects.

Some drugs are more commonly detrimental than others, and it can't really be made legal to have them around. I accept this, but I do it from a position you can't understand.

[nzspokes]

people put all sorts of letters after my name. i like the ones i-s- a-w-e-s-o-m-e.

but soooooo fkn what. i can spill long words with the best of em, i can shoot crack with the best of em, too.
i thinks the point was, if these drugs have therapeutic benefit, can not (should not) adults be allowed enjoy the benefit recreationally?

Because some of those that do are self medicating. Probably some depression with some Cluster C border line personality disorders and OCD just for fun.

Of course that could never go wrong. They would never self harm or suicide. Just ask the A&E departments at hospitals around the country. No they never see that. :facepalm:

Of course I have no would nothing of such things. :wacko:

[Akzle]

Of course that could never go wrong. They would never self harm or suicide. Just ask the A&E departments at hospitals around the country. No they never see that. :facepalm:
then let them. DNR.
and as smokey said, you'd probably be surprised at the higher-ups who recreationally use class A controlled substances with no adverse affect on society, family, their bank accounts or their quality of life or need for state medical attention.


Not when an individuals selfish indulgence jeopardises the health and welfare of others (incl family). Fact of the matter is that many people have no discipline or self control and their selfishness and weakness sees other people suffer, so hence why society needs to intervene. Do you understand and agree with this point?

When it comes to using P," the best of them" are still losers who will ultimately inflict suffering of some sort on other people. So excuse me if I consider your seemingly proud association with such self indulgent wankers as an indication of the weight (or lack thereof) which I might attribute to your opinions.

good answer.

but P is amphetamine. amphetamine is prescribed and used daily for people with mental disorders, has been for decades.
in this case it's the cost/availability and quality of the drug that is a problem moreso than the actual drug. if these "P addicts" could get their fix from pharmac for 5$ a time, could drop a tab at home instead of smoking it off a bit of tinfoil hiding behind the corner dairy, i daresay society's problems would be much reduced.
gangs in OZ have tightened up on P, because it creates 5-year customers, that's the average time it takes for a modern day P user to fuck up/die/ run out of money. they prefer heroin (=morphine) as it creates 20+ year clients.
and i was referring to crack-heroin or crack-cocaine, not so much crack-meth. but i'd give it a nudge. :D

but you say i'm proud and self indulgent for taking drugs? i keep house, keep kids, keep appointments, keep a garden etc etc. my hobbies are not costing your society anything, so how so?

pray, do you indulge in drink? tobacco? good food? nice car? at what social cost? are there hungry kids in your street? do they get to school without shoes? why don't you forfeit your luxury for their (part of your society eh?) benefit?

and also. while well and good for a community to intervene in it's member's health, the govt-created "society", i feel, has no place interfering in anyones life, if not FOR THAT INDIVIDUAL'S benefit.

[flyingcrocodile46]

Spoken by someone who has swallowed whole, the tripe that anyone using p is a psyco with no control over it's usage..
Wrong. My observations and conclusions are based entirely in personal observations and experience.



You can spout whatever you want about it, but you would be very surprised at some of the people who use a class drugs recreationally, without any adverse effects..
No I wouldn't



Some drugs are more commonly detrimental than others, and it can't really be made legal to have them around. I accept this, but I do it from a position you can't understand.
Maybe, but unlikely to be for the reasons you might think.


You don't know me and are quite wrong about the assumptions you have made about me.

[flyingcrocodile46]

then let them. DNR.
and as smokey said, you'd probably be surprised at the higher-ups who recreationally use class A controlled substances with no adverse affect on society, family, their bank accounts or their quality of life or need for state medical attention.



good answer.

but P is amphetamine. amphetamine is prescribed and used daily for people with mental disorders, has been for decades.
in this case it's the cost/availability and quality of the drug that is a problem moreso than the actual drug. if these "P addicts" could get their fix from pharmac for 5$ a time, could drop a tab at home instead of smoking it off a bit of tinfoil hiding behind the corner dairy, i daresay society's problems would be much reduced.
gangs in OZ have tightened up on P, because it creates 5-year customers, that's the average time it takes for a modern day P user to fuck up/die/ run out of money. they prefer heroin (=morphine) as it creates 20+ year clients.
and i was referring to crack-heroin or crack-cocaine, not so much crack-meth. but i'd give it a nudge. :D

but you say i'm proud and self indulgent for taking drugs? i keep house, keep kids, keep appointments, keep a garden etc etc. my hobbies are not costing your society anything, so how so?

pray, do you indulge in drink? tobacco? good food? nice car? at what social cost? are there hungry kids in your street? do they get to school without shoes? why don't you forfeit your luxury for their (part of your society eh?) benefit?

and also. while well and good for a community to intervene in it's member's health, the govt-created "society", i feel, has no place interfering in anyones life, if not FOR THAT INDIVIDUAL'S benefit.

I said you appeared to proudly associate with losers, not that you were or are.

The suggestion that society or govt issues (and by default condones) drugs to those that want it is a sure path to disaster. No question and AFAIC not worth debate.


I induldge in all sorts of things (good and bad) and look after my own. The govt takes 50% of my income so I believe that I have done more than enough for the unfortunate (in general terms) though do provide some assistance to some (incl neighbours and their kids) on occassions.

As for your last sentence. That only serves to show that you value your own rights so highly that you would trample on those of others. To that I can only say... Fuck you, discussion over.

[mashman]

The suggestion that society or govt issues (and by default condones) drugs to those that want it is a sure path to disaster. No question and AFAIC not worth debate.

WHEW I was worried there for a moment... but it's good to see that those want drugs will never get their hands on them because they're illegal and it isn't like drug taking goes on day in day out... it would indeed be a complete total and utter cluster fuck as all those who don't take drugs suddenly change their minds and rush out to get them because they suddenly become legal and therefore must be good for you.

[avgas]

but P is amphetamine. amphetamine is prescribed and used daily for people with mental disorders


people put all sorts of letters after my name. i like the ones i-s- a-w-e-s-o-m-e.
but soooooo fkn what. i can spill long words with the best of em, i can shoot crack with the best of em, too.
i thinks the point was, if these drugs have therapeutic benefit, can not (should not) adults be allowed enjoy the benefit recreationally?
Something tells me you fail to comprehend the complexities of the subject (hint start here : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocratic_Oath). But regardless you fail to acknowledge people for their achievements. Which tells me there are probably a few achievements out there that were presented to you......but you had better things to do.

I wonder what stopped you from going and pursuing these tasks?
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/WeYsTmIzjkw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Akzle]

Something tells me you fail to comprehend the complexities of the subject (hint start here : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocratic_Oath). But regardless you fail to acknowledge people for their achievements. Which tells me there are probably a few achievements out there that were presented to you......but you had better things to do.

I wonder what stopped you from going and pursuing these tasks?

hahahahaaha. i was JUST listening to that on my MP3. afro mu'a fukin M-A-N!
...and i thought that'd probably how the ignorant masses do percieve dope users.

complexities of the situation? what complexities? so doctors are "sworn" to protect life (at all costs, and sure, even if someone has DNR on their chart). cops are "sworn" to act without favor, affection, malice or ill will, and the list of thems attributes amongst them is longer than my.... leg.

who am i failing to aknowledge? what achievments?.. are you even having the same discussion the rest of us are?

what stopped me from being a doctor? i don't care if people die. i think more people should, it would be good for the planet. particularly if they die through their own stupidity which benefits not only the planet but their society and weeds out weak/ stupid genes. i also have issue with government dictating what drugs "should" and "should not" be used, even in the face of clear clinical evidence that (cannabis) "illegal" drugs can be beneficial.
ALSO that euthinasia is not "legal"
AND i also believe that modern science is actually just witholding the cure for cancer, because curing people of shit isn't profitable. it's better to hook people on drugs that mask the symptom than to actually fix the problem.

that, AND i prefer natural science/remedy and holistic healing, not just dishing out paracetamol.
AND, i'm fuckin healthy. i keep my whanau healthy. i don't believe illness is necessary.

who has pharmac shares again?

mashy: gold. but i can't bling you again!

[Drew]

If a cancer cure (there are thousands and thousands of types by the way, that requires the same number of cures), does exist, it would have leaked out.

The people working on it are not sitting by themselves with a test tube and a scientific calculator, there's lots of people.

The cure is worth a shot load to whoever finds it, but only till someone else comes up with it, so why sit on it?

Getting sick is not a requirement, but I bet a million bucks that when kids get crook bro, you go get the best care you can, and that'll be a doctor on account of them knowing what does what in the body.

Yeah, they over prescribe antibiotics like lollies. Yip, pill manufacturers pay bonuses for their product to be used over another to the doctors. And yip, they are usually less interested in a full history due to time restraints.

But they're still the ones with the know how, and there's no better option unless you know a real good voodoo priest.

[imdying]

And maybe, just maybe the dealers might move onto selling a more 'trendy' drug instead of cannabis...:shutup:

Interesting... just out of interest, what is it that you expect them to should the police succeed in removing cannabis from the black market?

Seems like a lot of effort and money is being put into fighting a war that can't be won. It's a bit shit really, given that the police are only following orders, but they're the ones that end up getting shot (at ever decreasing intervals) enforcing those laws.

[Akzle]

That only serves to show that you value your own rights so highly that you would trample on those of others.

uhh. what?

that the government shouldn't interfere with people causing no harm to anyone else?
how is that even closely related to trampling anyone's rights?

we're talking about mitigating societal harm.. personally i think having cheaper quality drugs available would go a long way to achieve that. plus i would LOVE to see what happens to alcohol consumption and associated flow-on harm when people can "get stupid" without fear of "the law"

[scumdog]

Seems like a lot of effort and money is being put into fighting a war that can't be won.

Sadly that statement sums up all law enforcing action...:(

[FJRider]

Interesting... just out of interest, what is it that you expect them to should the police succeed in removing cannabis from the black market?

Seems like a lot of effort and money is being put into fighting a war that can't be won. It's a bit shit really, given that the police are only following orders, but they're the ones that end up getting shot (at ever decreasing intervals) enforcing those laws.

In Vietnam ... they had to destroy a few villages, to save them. I think we have to lock a few dopeheads up ... to free them ... :wacko: :calm:

[jonbuoy]

Akzle smokes dope? I never would have thought that from reading his posts :crazy:

[onearmedbandit]

Akzle smokes dope? I never would have thought that from reading his posts :crazy:

And there'd be those that do and you'd never know. And there would be those that you'd think do but have never touched it.

[flyingcrocodile46]

And there'd be those that do and you'd never know. And there would be those that you'd think do but have never touched it.

True story. The popular stereotypical image of a stoner is quite misleading.

In my experience people who appear most similar to the stereotype tend to behave and function much the same when straight. I think the brain damage pre-dates the use of marijuana in most if not all cases.

I have also seen people smoke them like some people smoke cigarettes and yet appear straight and function perfectly even in serious multitasking roles.

[Akzle]

I have also seen people smoke them like some people smoke cigarettes and yet appear straight and function perfectly even in serious multitasking roles.

yup. this is me.


(as long as the activities are watching porn, jacking off and eating cheezels.)

but srsly. to meet me in the street, unless you decided to embark on some philosophical debate, you'd not no whether i was "stoned" or not, nor even that i ever smoked.
asides from the fact that i look like a raging hippy.

[Berries]

And then there are those who have never partaken who clearly should based on some of the comments I've seen here.

[Drew]

[COLOR="#139922"raHman blah blah... raging hippy.[/COLOR]how much rage could a hippy have?

[caspernz]

how much rage could a hippy have?

Akzle is a hippy? By golly gosh, and here I was thinking he was a monkey in a zoo somewhere...with a Wifi connection of course...:banana:

[Drew]

Akzle is a hippy? By golly gosh, and here I was thinking he was a monkey in a zoo somewhere...with a Wifi connection of course...:banana:

How do you figure? I don't know a monkey who can research law, grasp it, then use it for his argument.

He's a clever cunt, he just can't ride for shit judging by the advice he gave some noob.

[ducatilover]

how much rage could a hippy have?

If a hippy could have rage?
A hippy would have this much rage,
as much as a hippy could have


Jebus, I'm funny today!

[Akzle]

how much rage could a hippy have?

rave. then.
everytthing is a rave when you're tripping balls on LSD. :D

a hundred monekys at a hundred typewriters... they'd probably knock together one of my posts.:banana:

the wifi at whangarei zoo is fucking appalling. i had to get my own 3G internets!

clever- yes
cunt- almost certainly
can't ride for shit - open for discussion, lend me your bike and i'll find out.

[Akzle]

Jebus, I'm funny today!

you're funny everyday... just not in the way you think.:weird:
:D

[scumdog]

cunt- almost certainly

Like you had to tell us that?.....:rolleyes:

[ducatilover]

you're funny everyday... just not in the way you think.:weird:
:D "you must spread republah blah"


Like you had to tell us that?.....:rolleyes:
That's what makes him such a cunt :D

[avgas]

who has pharmac shares again?
You do. Unless your not a NZ citizen.

As for the rest of your post. I think you missed the point.
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/8EvXoTkwwE0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EvXoTkwwE0)

[Akzle]

You do. Unless your not a NZ citizen.

As for the rest of your post. I think you missed the point.


what if there's a corporation that's a citizen and a man that pays no tax. then what?

as for the rest of my post, what the f*ck is your point??

(ps, video's no good for razzing me - i can't/don't watchem.)

[avgas]

And then there are those who have never partaken who clearly should based on some of the comments I've seen here.
Thing these people need to get in their heads is drugs are not bad, people are bad.
Drugs are easy. :lol:

[avgas]

what if there's a corporation that's a citizen and a man that pays no tax. then what?
A corporation is an entity that cannot be a person. It is treated as its own individual entity.
People are accountable for their own actions, anyone who thinks they can assume otherwise is rather sheepish.

As for a citizen who pays no tax, in NZ they are considered a member of the state regardless. So yes they have a share also (by default).
This is emphasized under NZ rights also. Freeloaders are actually accounted for in most economic government situations.
Much to the government's disgust.
This includes citizens (who don't pay for anything) or in NZ's case, travelers, aliens and illegal aliens.

Pharmac is a good attempt for NZ to get cheap medication through bulk buying. Without we would be paying a fortune for medications.
While I prefer to use natural alternatives when possible, I also are well aware of what snake oil is and how to avoid it. Pharmac (and its buyers) also understand this concept - so I am thankful that they can get me the right drugs at the right price to solve NZ's problems.

I am even willing to sacrifice my salary to assist others in getting this service. (aka Tax)
What do you offer apart from complaints?

[flyingcrocodile46]

A corporation is an entity that cannot be a person. It is treated as its own individual entity.
People are accountable for their own actions, anyone who thinks they can assume otherwise is rather sheepish.

As for a citizen who pays no tax, in NZ they are considered a member of the state regardless. So yes they have a share also (by default).
This is emphasized under NZ rights also. Freeloaders are actually accounted for in most economic government situations.
Much to the government's disgust.
This includes citizens (who don't pay for anything) or in NZ's case, travelers, aliens and illegal aliens.

Pharmac is a good attempt for NZ to get cheap medication through bulk buying. Without we would be paying a fortune for medications.
While I prefer to use natural alternatives when possible, I also are well aware of what snake oil is and how to avoid it. Pharmac (and its buyers) also understand this concept - so I am thankful that they can get me the right drugs at the right price to solve NZ's problems.

I am even willing to sacrifice my salary to assist others in getting this service. (aka Tax)
What do you offer apart from complaints?


:first: Fucking A :2thumbsup

[Akzle]

A corporation is an entity that cannot be a person. It is treated as its own individual entity.
you need to brush up on your legislation. That's exactly the opposite of how it is.

People are accountable for their own actions
we agree


What do you offer apart from complaints?
i grow my own medication, i would even offer to sell it, if it weren't "illegal"

but this is all a long way from topic.

[flyingcrocodile46]

Q= What sort of person admits to cultivating marijuana in a internet thread in which local cops have posted when his RL identity and location have also been identified in the same thread? :weird:

A= Either an incredibly stupid fool, a dumb narc or someone totally full of shit.

[Akzle]

local cops, who?
My vote c) the guy that hides his crop in your back paddock. =)

[flyingcrocodile46]

[QUOTE=Akzle;1130374158] local cops, who?
[QUOTE]

There are about a dozen cops who are members of KB. At least three have posted in this thread. I suspect you will be earmarked for surveillance and a visit. :lol: You dick. :lol::lol::lol:

[FJRider]

you need to brush up on your legislation. That's exactly the opposite of how it is.


Not quite ...

The Collaborative International Dictionary of English v.0.48:Corporation \Cor`po*ra"tion\ (k[^o]r`p[-o]*r[=a]"sh[u^]n), n.
[L. corporatio incarnation: cf. F. corporation corporation.]
A body politic or corporate, formed and authorized by law to
act as a single person, and endowed by law with the capacity
of succession; a society having the capacity of transacting
business as an individual.
[1913 Webster]

Note: Corporations are aggregate or sole. Corporations
aggregate consist of two or more persons united in a
society, which is preserved by a succession of members,
either forever or till the corporation is dissolved by
the power that formed it, by the death of all its
members, by surrender of its charter or franchises, or
by forfeiture. Such corporations are the mayor and
aldermen of cities, the head and fellows of a college,
the dean and chapter of a cathedral church, the
stockholders of a bank or insurance company, etc. A
corporation sole consists of a single person, who is
made a body corporate and politic, in order to give him
some legal capacities, and especially that of
succession, which as a natural person he can not have.
Kings, bishops, deans, parsons, and vicars, are in
England sole corporations. A fee will not pass to a
corporation sole without the word "successors" in the
grant.
[1913 Webster]

[Drew]

can't ride for shit - open for discussion, lend me your bike and i'll find out.LOL, sweet. You ride down here on your bike, then you can climb on my bike and we'll go for a hoon.

[nodrog]

When is dangerous bastard going to get in trouble for having 2 logins?

[Drew]

When is dangerous bastard going to get in trouble for having 2 logins?

He changed his name I think. What's the join date on the CmS login?

[nodrog]

He changed his name I think. What's the join date on the CmS login?

Fucked if I know, but this Axle clown has got to be him or his fuckin twin. Surely?

[Drew]

Fucked if I know, but this Axle clown has got to be him or his fuckin twin. Surely?

I fuckin hope not, I like this Akzle rooster!

[Akzle]

There are about a dozen cops who are members of KB. At least three have posted in this thread. I suspect you will be earmarked for surveillance and a visit. :lol: You dick. :lol::lol::lol: yeah... my "neigbourhood" is about 200km in any direction. that asides, the local boys in blue have me on speed dial, if not they've sure got my number handy. generally, unless i do something indefensible, i'm just not worth the pages and pages of green bullshit i send them.


Not quite ...
TL: DR
Interpretation Act 1999: (THAT'S NEW ZEALAND LEGISLATION: "THE RULES")
"person includes a corporation sole, a body corporate, and an
unincorporated body"

huh? fuck me. does it say right there that a person is a CORPORATION or CORPORATE?

.. fuck me.

(actually. fuck YOU =P ) :D


LOL, sweet. You ride down here on your bike, then you can climb on my bike and we'll go for a hoon.

i'll hold you to that one day.

[Akzle]

FJ, in all seriousness, are you actually fucking IHC?
do you comprehend what is happening around you? here?

don't quote google at me. googling a dictionary doesn't make you any less wrong.
:brick:

[nodrog]

I fuckin hope not, I like this Akzle rooster!

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-6QVr3BFHFVM/T7RfP1gyPxI/AAAAAAAABAk/iphu-2kwzGw/s1600/ICE+CREAM+TRAP.jpg

[Akzle]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-6QVr3BFHFVM/T7RfP1gyPxI/AAAAAAAABAk/iphu-2kwzGw/s1600/ICE+CREAM+TRAP.jpg

i don't understand the question.

[nodrog]

i don't understand the question.

http://nickshell1983.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/disguise.jpg

[Akzle]

http://nickshell1983.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/disguise.jpg
sure.
Youtube john lajoie, rapist glasses (all his shit is funny)

[onearmedbandit]

I fuckin hope not, I like this Akzle rooster!

Same. I'd be severely let down.

[Scuba_Steve]

sure.
Youtube john lajoie, rapist glasses (all his shit is funny)

go great with pedophile beard, serial killer van & public masturbator coat


Women are only good for 3 things... cooking, cleaning, & vaginas - Jon LaJoie

[Drew]

Since we have his real name, (Rob something), and he's told us where to find him should we need to make sure he does infact look like a hippy, we can be sure he isn't CmS/DB.

[mashman]

Rob the hippy... a fun game for politicians

[mashman]

Met officer grew cannabis in loft (http://uk.news.yahoo.com/met-officer-grew-cannabis-loft-143058590.html) a couple of mates of mine were banged up for 2 years for similar... granted there were a few more than 18 plants involved, but still... fucker should have been sent down.

[FJRider]

don't quote google at me. googling a dictionary doesn't make you any less wrong.
:brick:

so ... the dictionary was wrong, and you are right ... ??? You may have a bit of ihc yourself ..

I quote, to just piss you off ... is it working ... ???

[Subike]

Lots of baby bibs being worn in this thread.

To catch the dribble spewing out of some mouths

[scumdog]

You know when you first found that mad pooch that reacted to sticks being poked at it or stones thrown at it?

And it was fun and you went out of your way to walk past where that mutt was just to throw stones at it and watch it snap and slather?

And then one day it got boring and in the end you just couldn't be buggered bothering with that crazy canine?

Well I've just discovered the on-line equivalent of that dog...

[oneofsix]

You know when you first found that mad pooch that reacted to sticks being poked at it or stones thrown at it?

And it was fun and you went out of your way to walk past where that mutt was just to throw stones at it and watch it snap and slather?

And then one day it got boring and in the end you just couldn't be buggered bothering with that crazy canine?

Well I've just discovered the on-line equivalent of that dog...

They do say that serial killers start out tormenting animals. :nya:

[Scuba_Steve]

You know when you first found that mad pooch that reacted to sticks being poked at it or stones thrown at it?

And it was fun and you went out of your way to walk past where that mutt was just to throw stones at it and watch it snap and slather?

And then one day it got boring and in the end you just couldn't be buggered bothering with that crazy canine?

Well I've just discovered the on-line equivalent of that dog...

Was it a lonely time there Scummy, when they stopped coming by & throwing stones at you???
Oh well guess you got yours back when you joined NZ's biggest gang ay, Now the dog's been let out!!! (tho still on a leash) :sunny:

[caspernz]

How do you figure? I don't know a monkey who can research law, grasp it, then use it for his argument.

He's a clever cunt, he just can't ride for shit judging by the advice he gave some noob.

I know several clever monkeys actually, they all sat down the front of the class for certain subjects...

But you know there's clever and then there's clever, and then there's fellas that are put amongst us for our amusement...:laugh:

[Horney1]

Thing these people need to get in their heads is drugs are not bad, people are bad....



Wow, lots of strong opinions in this thread! From those that know to those that are fearful of what they think.

Watch and learn ( The Best Marijuana Documentary (Canadian)):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MESZh-_uyUQ

I've made the following observations through my life (IMHO):

Mj is not addictive
Mj is not a problem (legal issues aside)
Mj should be excluded in developmental years (as should alcohol).
Mj is compatible with normal life, people can operate quite normally after using Mj
Mj by itself does not lead to harder drugs
Mj is far far less of a problem for society that either alcohol ot tobacco
Idiots give Mj a bad rep, you don't hear about the others
Idiots will always be idiots with or without Mj
Mj does not cause psyc problems, those people would have those problems anyway.
Mj is a very good natural medicine
Pharmaceutical companies have an interest in the Mj game...
Mj is often supplied by criminal groups, legalising Mj would minimise Mj user contact with those groups
Mj has been used by many many people including leaders of societies since (probably) soon after man disovered fire.
It seems cops are very quick to get abnormally very personally and offensively abusive on websites. Is this in defense of of one of the perks of their jobs? One of the easy sides of their jobs? I guess that's the type of person our force targets (or vice versa).


I've also noted that no one mentioned the hundreds of thousands of dollars that the NZ police force spend flying around in helicopters for weeks and weeks at a time. I'd love to be paid to do that! How much does it cost to rent/ run a helicopter for an hour? Surely we could spend that money on something more worthwhile like reducing assaults and theft. (Oh, I suppose that's the dirty/ hard work for the force). Or on having fewer police and more productive members of society (i.e. producing food, making things, cleaning waterways, keeping foreign fishing vessels off our turf etc etc)


Let's not piss around with decriminalising Mj, just legalise it and be done with it! As a society we've wasted (:D) enough time and money "battling" Mj. The government should put the good money to some constructive uses like paying off overseas debt, rebuilding Christchurch, providing decent health care etc so we don't have to live as a third world country..

[SMOKEU]

How much does it cost to rent/ run a helicopter for an hour?

Probably around $200 for a small/medium sized one including the pilot, excluding the cops, so add another $35/hour for each cop on board.

[puddytat]

Probably around $200 for a small/medium sized one including the pilot, excluding the cops, so add another $35/hour for each cop on board.

You need to add another zero if its an Iroquoi.....(I know the spellings not right) Or a 1 in front of the two for a Robertson etc
Supposedly it can cost 2-3 hundy for an ounce,but I bet that every ounce that the Police gets would cost significantly more what with wagons, choppers, wages. Great opportunity to cut Police costs there JK...just buy it.

"•It seems cops are very quick to get abnormally very personally and offensively abusive on websites. Is this in defense of of one of the perks of their jobs? One of the easy sides of their jobs? I guess that's the type of person our force targets (or vice versa)."


Nah bro ,its the uniform

[onearmedbandit]

Probably around $200 for a small/medium sized one including the pilot, excluding the cops, so add another $35/hour for each cop on board.

The medium sized one a car yard I was working at hired to track a $60k sports car cost us $1500/hr.

[Akzle]

Mj does not cause psyc problems, those people would have those problems anyway.
Pharmaceutical companies have an interest in the Mj game...
It seems cops are very quick to get abnormally very personally and offensively abusive on websites.


I've also noted that no one mentioned the hundreds of thousands of dollars that the NZ police force spend flying around in helicopters for weeks and weeks at a time. I'd love to be paid to do that! How much does it cost to rent/ run a helicopter for an hour?

see below for jelly-wobbler cost.

i've left everything in your list that i DISAGREE with. i'm not going to expand on it. you're entitled to an opinion, even if you're wrong.
except FJ.
he's not entitled to an opinion.

cos he full-retard.

http://passionweiss.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Never-Go-Full-Retard.jpg


Probably around $200 for a small/medium sized one including the pilot,

uhh. more like 4000$/hour for the twin squirrel., by the time you factor in fifty-hour maintenance and everything else involved in keeping a whirly-bird birdly-whirling. (try saying that ten times really fast).
no shit. choppers are expen$ive.