Legal advice wanted - Traffic offence

[Motoracer]

Due to the front wheel of my motorcycle elevating from the ground for a brief duration on the motorway on ramp, I have been handed a careless driving of a m/vehicle offense. Apparently I have to appear in court and the judge will decide my fate. Other than that, no fines or penalties were given to me by the traffic officer. I was very compliant with the officer the whole time and I apologized for any behavioral flaws in my driving that he had perceived at the time.

Can someone (a lawyer, a police officer or someone with experience with these matters) please help me out with legal advice on what I can do or can't do and how i can prepare for the court? Is there anywhere where I can look up the penalties for careless driving?

Thank you.

[Scouse]

Can someone (a lawyer, a police officer or someone with experience with these matters) please help me out with legal advice on what I can do or can't do and how i can prepare for the court? Is there anywhere where I can look up the penalties for careless driving?

Thank you.Hire a Lawyer

[5150]

You were riding like a cock, what were you expecting.....:nono:


Oh, wait, you ride a Hornet. Sorry mate, as you were :not:

[red mermaid]

Maximum fine of $3,000.
Can be disqualified at discretion of court.
Non imprisonable offence so you dont have to appear in court unless you want to plead not guilty.

[nadroj]

Your front wheel "popped" up when you rode over a rock / piece of wood whilst accellerating to merge with the traffic flow?







How unusual.....

[Gremlin]

http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/factsheets/55/driving-offences.html

Don't post all the gory details as it's publicly searchable.

Think about which onramp (length), length of wheelie (just a lift under acceleration or 100m wheel stand) and time of day, and traffic. I think plenty of ramps are not long enough to get up to motorway speeds if you drive like a drunken snail, now that they have put traffic lights in.

[5150]

Dodgy clutch officer.

Them Hornet clutches are very, very graby :innocent:

[avgas]

Sounds like a downgrade is in order.

Must be some cheap RG150's going on trademe...........on second thoughts, after recalling your riding........you need a 50cc vespa to not do anything illegal.

[Edbear]

Due to the front wheel of my motorcycle elevating from the ground for a brief duration on the motorway on ramp, I have been handed a careless driving of a m/vehicle offense. Apparently I have to appear in court and the judge will decide my fate. Other than that, no fines or penalties were given to me by the traffic officer. I was very compliant with the officer the whole time and I apologized for any behavioral flaws in my driving that he had perceived at the time.

Can someone (a lawyer, a police officer or someone with experience with these matters) please help me out with legal advice on what I can do or can't do and how i can prepare for the court? Is there anywhere where I can look up the penalties for careless driving?

Thank you.

Love it! :2thumbsup

Sorry to hear of your misfortune. At least you haven't tried to justify yourself or blame anyone else. Hope you get slapped with a wet bus ticket as the saying goes...

[Akzle]

Due to the front wheel of my motorcycle elevating from the ground for a brief duration on the motorway on ramp, I have been handed a careless driving of a m/vehicle offense. Apparently I have to appear in court and the judge will decide my fate. Other than that, no fines or penalties were given to me by the traffic officer. I was very compliant with the officer the whole time and I apologized for any behavioral flaws in my driving that he had perceived at the time.

Can someone (a lawyer, a police officer or someone with experience with these matters) please help me out with legal advice on what I can do or can't do and how i can prepare for the court? Is there anywhere where I can look up the penalties for careless driving?

Thank you.
you admitted guilt then and there. fuck the judge, you pleaded guilty to the cop and were summarily judged. now all you need is a suitable punishment (sentencing), to try and ensure you don't infringe against their legislation in future. :spanking:

nzlii.org will give you a stack of case law. you could even search "dangerous, motorbike, wheelie" etc.

never ask a cop for legal advice, they don't know the law.

since you're going to court, with your guilty tail between your legs, dress nice, smile politely, be respectful. if you're really keen, go in with a "means assessment" already completed (demonstrate your nett worth) and say you're really really sorry but can only afford to hand over X dollars and you're really sorry and have learned your lesson and are sorry and wont do it again because you're so sorry. character references from your boss/neighbour/priest etc may help your cause. videos of you doing burnouts on youtube (showcasing your riding ability) will not.

since it's a "minor infraction" and your first offence? he might let you off with a warning. the other option would be suspend your licence (usually 28 days - you can argue but it costs a lot of money and generally by the time you've got your argument to court the 28 days has gone. - continue riding, but don't get caught again.)

[unstuck]

Was it your first offence? If so dont worry, jail sex is not too bad once you get used to it.:headbang:

[rastuscat]

never ask a cop for legal advice, they don't know the law.



Good on ya Azkle, it's good to have someone here who knows everything.

You forgot to mention that the rider may be eligible for diversion, it's worth asking the Popo prosecutor if you are eligible. It'll be ruled out if you have demerits, thats one of the qualifying issues.

A wheelie is routinely charged out as careless, so it's not unusual. According to Tom Jones, anyway.

Offer to do a defensive driving course or something similar, it's better than getting a conviction and incurring points.

Of course, the whole problem would be solved by inventing a time machine, going back and entering the motorway without doing a mono. Ask onearmedbandit.

[5150]

jail sex is not too bad once you get used to it.:headbang:

speaking from experience, are we? ;)

[hellokitty]

You were riding like a cock, what were you expecting.....:nono:


Oh, wait, you ride a Hornet. Sorry mate, as you were :not:

Must be a fault with Hornets, as my one does this too :wacko: but only when Mr Hellokitty rides it.

[caseye]

Must be a fault with Hornets, as my one does this too :wacko: but only when Mr Hellokitty rides it.


TUI'S Anyone.
LOL hey kitty, nice to see you.
Course I believe you.
OP, Listen to the rastuscat he knows a bit about these things.

[YellowDog]

My front wheel only comes up when I really want it to.

When will you guys learn that you are innocent until proven guity?

I have a mate whom has just changed his guilty plea to not guilty. He was involved in a complex issue with his landlady whom treated him as a son, as her own family are cunts, and has now been charged with fraud and the landladies family are pushing it all of the way.

The advice from the police officer daughter of a colleage was not good (unless he's keen on jail sex). He had no idea that the 1% of the crime he pleaded guilty to would include the other 99% of the unfounded accusation he was not guilty of. The system is always on the lookout for such low hanging fruit (idiots whom plead guilty). He's now completely fucked and as well as most likely going to jail, he will also be bankrupt. He has been stupid and gullible.

Now you've made the stupid mistake yourself, plead guilty, accept your punnishment, and then put it behind you........:spanking:

[Drew]

Careless use is a shit of charge to defend. Because the argument, "the wheel just came up unexpectedly", proves the charge. 'Careless'.

"I did a quick head check and saw a safe spot to merge into, and as I accelerated the road leveled off more than I had allowed for", might get some sympathy. But if the plod find you on here, and start looking into some of the shit you used to get up to, you're fucked mate.

"Yes your honour, I accept that I may have been careless. I have enrolled in a defensive driving course, and a rider training day to ensure it doesn't happen again", is your best bet.

[Road kill]

Don't hire a lawyer,that's just money down the tubes.
The judge will more than likely ask if you want one,so say you don't because you can't afford it and your going to plead guilty anyway so there's really no point.
Call him Sir or your honour "every time" you speak to him,and offer "NO PISS WEAK EXCUSES" because he's already heard them all a million times before and not only are they "all" piss weak,their also fucking annoying to listen to.
Don't go looking for sympathy,it just makes it look like your making up stories "see above" would you buy that shit ?
And again,,it's fucking annoying to listen to.
Nothing more than "I'm sorry Sir,I made a mistake".
You should walk with between $200-$400 less in your pocket.
Or you could hire a lawyer and still pay out the same,,,,plus his fee.
Good luck.

[Road kill]

Would be nice if you could just delete a post when you double tap the fucker.

[jrandom]

This'll learn you to get old and sensible and not do runners, bro. You gotta be prepared to back yourself. Popping a wheelie on an Auckland motorway but then not being prepared to just go when the disco lights inevitably turn on... Revelation 3:16 time.

So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

If you're too old and sensible to run, don't pull monos on the motorway.

As it is - best just suck it up and live with a 'careless' on your record, I think.

[Madness]

Agree with those that suggested a lawyer is a waste of money for a Careless charge. Dangerous is a different kettle of fish though as it carries a mandatory 6-month minimum disqualification. Get some family members to come to court, that always makes an impression of being an upstanding citizen.

Question for those in the know: Do JP's reside over minor traffic courts here in Auckland or is it a Judge? I'm assuming it'll be a couple of JP's.

[Mom]

Must be a fault with Hornets, as my one does this too :wacko: but only when Mr Hellokitty rides it.

No, Bandits also have the same issues, but honestly, I just miss-timed my clutch release while grabbing up a handfull of throttle by accident :yes:

[Akzle]

Good on ya Azkle, it's good to have someone here who knows everything.

fucken ayye.

however i will retract my earlier statement and replace it with "most cops don't know f*ck about the law"
this is not to say that you do. or even that many do. infact the percentage is probably very slight.

but there might be one out there.


but hey. do you guys have an internal affairs dept? or is that covered in the showers after your shift?
but i'm serious, you know. i'd love to be the cop that nails bad cops and since i spend a lot of my time and energy doing it anyway...might as well get paid for it ayye?

[Drew]

No, Bandits also have the same issues, but honestly, I just miss-timed my clutch release while grabbing up a handfull of throttle by accident :yes:

Now if only there was a word for such careless mistakes, resulting in something as dangerous as a wheelie. Hmmm, must work on that.

[Edbear]

Careless use is a shit of charge to defend. Because the argument, "the wheel just came up unexpectedly", proves the charge. 'Careless'.

"I did a quick head check and saw a safe spot to merge into, and as I accelerated the road leveled off more than I had allowed for", might get some sympathy. But if the plod find you on here, and start looking into some of the shit you used to get up to, you're fucked mate.

"Yes your honour, I accept that I may have been careless. I have enrolled in a defensive driving course, and a rider training day to ensure it doesn't happen again", is your best bet.

You're not making it very easy to argue with you! :whistle:

[jrandom]

"Yes your honour, I accept that I may have been careless. I have enrolled in a defensive driving course, and a rider training day to ensure it doesn't happen again", is your best bet.

Yeah, but he's still going to enter a conviction, isn't he? You might save a couple hundy in fines, but I think the conviction on the record is what MR's probably most worried about.

And in that respect, I think he's fuuuuuuuuuu...

<img src="http://i47.tinypic.com/2cd8xdu.png"/>

[Mom]

Now if only there was a word for such careless mistakes, resulting in something as dangerous as a wheelie. Hmmm, must work on that.

I know, WTF? I am a total nana (though I do have a few points) and it still friggen happens, I considered blaming men-at-pause for a lapse in concentration, not sure how that would work for you though :cool:

[FJRider]

Must be a fault with Hornets, as my one does this too :wacko: but only when Mr Hellokitty rides it.

It's not just a honda thing ... a 98 tls (Suzuki) in Oamaru apparently does it too ... ;)

[FJRider]

Now if only there was a word for such careless mistakes, resulting in something as dangerous as a wheelie. Hmmm, must work on that.

"Accident" ... ???

[FJRider]

I considered blaming men-at-pause for a lapse in concentration, not sure how that would work for you though :cool:

But you're far too young .. :innocent:

[onearmedbandit]

Ask onearmedbandit.

I was wondering if you were going to mention that lol.

[Drew]

Yeah, but he's still going to enter a conviction, isn't he? You might save a couple hundy in fines, but I think the conviction on the record is what MR's probably most worried about.

And in that respect, I think he's fuuuuuuuuuu...

Perhaps now is a good time to point out, that 'careless use' as a charge on it's own, is not a criminal conviction, only a traffic violation.

[Motoracer]

Thank you very much for your inputs people. They were really helpful.

[Steve Gauge]

yep your fucked , I think road kill hit the nail on the head youll have to eat it

[98tls]

It's not just a honda thing ... a 98 tls (Suzuki) in Oamaru apparently does it too ... ;)

And still walking,the speed at which the motorcycle is travelling with front wheel in the air seems to influence the charge:wacko:,then theres the Waitaki bridge incident:crazy:Why cant the past just be left in past:oi-grr:;)Not long to go.

[FJRider]

Perhaps now is a good time to point out, that 'careless use' as a charge on it's own, is not a criminal conviction, only a traffic violation.

Also a good time to point out it can be liable for a $3000 fine ... and and a period of walking ... (no doubt the amount of walking ... dependent on the mood of the judge)

A Traffic violation with teeth.

[Drew]

Also a good time to point out it can be liable for a $3000 fine ... and and a period of walking ... (no doubt the amount of walking ... dependent on the mood of the judge)

A Traffic violation with teeth.

Rastus, you reckon that'd ever be handed out?

[jrandom]

Perhaps now is a good time to point out, that 'careless use' as a charge on it's own, is not a criminal conviction, only a traffic violation.

If it's handed out on the roadside, it's a traffic infringement.

If it's handed out in court, it's a criminal offence, like DUI, assault, theft, whatever, and goes on your criminal record.

I think. Am I wrong?

[Marmoot]

Rastus, you reckon that'd ever be handed out?

Yep. Seen it with my own eyes.

[DEATH_INC.]

The last careless I had was 3 months loss and $600 fine. But that was ages ago....
You're fucked MR, just admit guilt and take whatever they chuck at ya. It's very hard to win, to the court, the cops word is gold. If you fight it, you'll probably get done for 300kph and a 6 mile wheelie, at least in my experience....

[Madness]

300kph and a 6 mile wheelie...

Gotta love those Kawasakis.

[FJRider]

If it's handed out on the roadside, it's a traffic infringement.

If it's handed out in court, it's a criminal offence, like DUI, assault, theft, whatever, and goes on your criminal record.

I think. Am I wrong?

It's an offence under the Land Transport Act. (don't ask me what section) ... instant court case ...

[Madness]

It's an offence under the Land Transport Act. (don't ask me what section) ... instant court case ...

If found guilty of careless use of a motor vehicle under the land transport act a conviction is entered and recorded in a similar manner to a conviction handed down under any other law, including the crimes act. It can go against you not just in terms of sentencing for future offences and insurance risk analysis but even employment eligibility. I once missed out on a job with an organisation I had worked for previously and was told that I was unsuccessful because of conviction(s) gained since my previous employment. My only convictions are for careless use (I think of it as being creative).

[FJRider]

If found guilty of careless use of a motor vehicle under the land transport act a conviction is entered and recorded in a similar manner to a conviction handed down under any other law, including the crimes act. It can go against you not just in terms of sentencing for future offences and insurance risk analysis but even employment eligibility. I once missed out on a job with an organisation I had worked for previously and was told that I was unsuccessful because of conviction(s) gained since my previous employment. My only convictions are for careless use (I think of it as being creative).

Some people ... and countries ... take a dim view of court convictions.

It can limit your travel plans and gaining a Visa to enter some countries. (like the USA ... and Aussie. Which I find amusing considering Aussie's history)

[98tls]

Some people ... and countries ... take a dim view of court convictions.

It can limit your travel plans and gaining a Visa to enter some countries. (like the USA ... and Aussie. Which I find amusing considering Aussie's history)

:killingmeIndeed,i know a pom that recently sold his Ducati to aid in the move to Australia,when talking to him a few weeks back i said "farkin hell it wasnt that long ago it would have been far easier to get caught stealing one and go by boat".

[FJRider]

:killingmeIndeed,i know a pom that recently sold his Ducati to aid in the move to Australia,when talking to him a few weeks back i said "farkin hell it wasnt that long ago it would have been far easier to get caught stealing one and go by boat".

"You must spread" .... :killingme

[Flip]

And still walking,the speed at which the motorcycle is travelling with front wheel in the air seems to influence the charge:wacko:,then theres the Waitaki bridge incident:crazy:Why cant the past just be left in past:oi-grr:;)Not long to go.

Have you been a bad boy?

Time for the OP to get a Harley, you won't be popping no monos on one of those.

[rastuscat]

Offence against section 37 of the Land Transport Act 1998.

$3000, court may disqualify, 30 or 35 demerit, and a conviction.

It's what we charge someone with if there isn't a suitable instant fine, aka infringement.

It's what you've done if your driving isn't to the standard of a careful and prudent driver, objectively viewed.

It covers a full range, from someone who hits a car while parallel parking, to someone who crashes a red light and totals several cars.

So, the fine will depend on a variety of things. Time, place and circumstances of the offense. How mean the Popo was when they wrote up the paperwork. What sort of mood the JP is in. What previous convictions exist. Where in the country it happens.

There isn't a real national standard. Fair to say that $600 is quite high, in my experience. Courts never used to disqualify but it's become more common over the years. But so has diversion.

Of course, Azkle knows better than me.

[Kickaha]

Azkle knows better than me.
In that case perhaps he could be hired to defend the charge

[tbs]

In that case perhaps he could be hired to defend the charge

I'd pay money to come along and watch Azkle explain to the judge why he has no legitimate authority over you on account of being a mere tool in the machinery of an illegitimate bastard government..... Or something to that effect..... You could sell tickets?

[scumdog]

you admitted guilt then and there. fuck the judge, you pleaded guilty to the cop and were summarily judged. now all you need is a suitable punishment (sentencing), to try and ensure you don't infringe against their legislation in future. :spanking:

)



You really do need to get a life....

[Padmei]

A few years ago I had a head on on a one way bridge (lots of contributing factors but I was at fault) The cop was really good as he could see how it happened, how freaked out I was, bosses car etc & was ready to give us all a lift back into town.

Consequently I got a letter saying I was being charged with careless use of a motor vehicle causing a non injury accident (actually after all 4 of us went to hospital 2 of my workmates were off work for 3 weeks)

Anyway I didn't go to court & sent in a grovelling letter. I got a fine of $300 & 30 demerits.

That is from an accident that fricked up 2 cars & could have been fatal that I caused. I can't see doing a bloody wheelie being too high on their worry list. Don't let it stress you too much... unless you're hanging onto your licence by 10 demerits

[Murray]

Of course, Azkle knows better than me.

I wouldnt know because I can't be bothered trying to read that "look at me" green font he uses!

[Akzle]

It's an offence under the Land Transport Act. (don't ask me what section) ... instant court case ...

offence under the LTA ≠ court case.
there's probably even a section that starts "it is a defence against charges in this section IF:...", within the LTA.



I'd pay money to come along and watch Azkle explain to the judge why he has no legitimate authority over you on account of being a mere tool in the machinery of an illegitimate bastard government..... Or something to that effect..... You could sell tickets?

that's one option. and it works. you're welcome to attend any future court dates i have.

but this guy has already admitted guilt and accepted the jurisdiction of teh police/court. so no luck there. he has legitimised it.

[FJRider]

since it's a "minor infraction" and your first offence? he might let you off with a warning. the other option would be suspend your licence (usually 28 days - you can argue but it costs a lot of money and generally by the time you've got your argument to court the 28 days has gone. - continue riding, but don't get caught again.)



It's a Traffic Offence ... not a Traffic Infringement.

A 3 or 6 month licence loss is often awarded ... as well as/with the court imposed fine.

[98tls]

In that case perhaps he could be hired to defend the charge

Not a bad idea you may well get off with an insanity plea,judge would figure anyone stupid enough to hire him...

[Ender EnZed]

It doesn't really matter what you say, but make sure you wink at the judge as obviously and frequently as possible.

[FJRider]

Not a bad idea you may well get off with an insanity plea,judge would figure anyone stupid enough to hire him...

Or ... get the penalty doubled ... for being as stupid as he is .... to think hiring him might help.

Might give the judge a giggle though ... I doubt if he gets many in a usual day.

[CookMySock]

but this guy has already admitted guilt and accepted the jurisdiction of teh police/court. so no luck there. he has legitimised it.Yep, a little unfortunate.

Always deny and disagree. Never apologise, capitulate, or agree with anything at all . Don't touch, handle, or otherwise accept any documentation handed to you, and return-to-sender any that is posted to you, and forbid the person concerned from attaching any paperwork to your vehicle. Explain to the officer that you do not wave your right to a hearing, or any of you other rights. Explain that you reserve your right to a hearing, and all of your other rights.

Explain to the magistrate that did you emphatically did NOT do anything of the sort, and that you won't be coerced into admitting to anything, and when he asks whether you consent to his jurisdiction (he must) look annoyed and tell him "thank you kindly but you do not!"

[FJRider]

Explain to the magistrate that did you emphatically did NOT do anything of the sort, and that you won't be coerced into admitting to anything, and when he asks whether you consent to his jurisdiction (he must) look annoyed and tell him "thank you kindly but you do not!"

Then His Honour has the option to dismiss ... or send it to a higher court.





After reading your sig ... are you steve's boyfriend ... ???

[Coldrider]

Yep, a little unfortunate.

Always deny and disagree. Never apologise, capitulate, or agree with anything at all . Don't touch, handle, or otherwise accept any documentation handed to you, and return-to-sender any that is posted to you, and forbid the person concerned from attaching any paperwork to your vehicle. Explain to the officer that you do not wave your right to a hearing, or any of you other rights. Explain that you reserve your right to a hearing, and all of your other rights.

Explain to the magistrate that did you emphatically did NOT do anything of the sort, and that you won't be coerced into admitting to anything, and when he asks whether you consent to his jurisdiction (he must) look annoyed and tell him "thank you kindly but you do not!"Yep, and tell the unfortunate coppa, as it's not his lucky day, that your name was copywrited at birth, and as such if the unfortunate coppa uses your name in verbal or written form, or such further parties in legal form use your copyrighted name, their arse will be sued off for such illegal infringement of the use of your name.

[98tls]

Yep, and tell the unfortunate coppa, as it's not his lucky day, that your name was copywrited at birth, and as such if the unfortunate coppa uses your name in verbal or written form, or such further parties in legal form use your copyrighted name, their arse will be sued off for such illegal infringement of the use of your name.

Been tried before,you just end up with shit all over your face.

[Coldrider]

Been tried before,you just end up with shit all over your face.He just lives down the road.
http://wearethestruggle.blogspot.co.nz/2012/05/24-may-2012.html

[98tls]

He just lives down the road.
http://wearethestruggle.blogspot.co.nz/2012/05/24-may-2012.html

:lol::lol:Love that.

[FJRider]

Been tried before,you just end up with shit all over your face.

Or ...more charges.

Like ...

:Perverting the course of justice
:Interfering with the administration of justice
:Obstructing the administration of justice
:Obstructing the course of justice

Or the perennial favourite ... wasting police time (checking details)

[Coldrider]

:lol::lol:Love that.He knows something about Honda RC 45's (well one of them ) but can't find any linky's.

[Macontour]

Wear nice clothes, maybe a tie even, speak politely, don't mumble, look the JP/Judge in the eye as you call him Sir, have a few references to show him what an upstanding citizen you are, don't worry about a lawyer, it will only only add to your expenses, rehearse what you are going to say and speak with confidence. It basically worked for me years ago, I still got fined but much lighter than I was expecting.

[scumdog]

He just lives down the road.
http://wearethestruggle.blogspot.co.nz/2012/05/24-may-2012.html

Pissed myself!!:lol:

[Coldrider]

Pissed myself!!:lol:actually, i think he is away at the moment on holiday, on the tax payer. So the 'toll road' will be free for a while.

[Akzle]

It's a Traffic Offence ... not a Traffic Infringement.
oh and pray, "smarty pants", what exactly is Google inc.'s definition of Offence or Infringement today? :motu:


Yep, a little unfortunate.

Always deny and disagree. Never apologise, capitulate, or agree with anything at all . Don't touch, handle, or otherwise accept any documentation handed to you, and return-to-sender any that is posted to you, and forbid the person concerned from attaching any paperwork to your vehicle. Explain to the officer that you do not wave your right to a hearing, or any of you other rights. Explain that you reserve your right to a hearing, and all of your other rights.

Explain to the magistrate that did you emphatically did NOT do anything of the sort, and that you won't be coerced into admitting to anything, and when he asks whether you consent to his jurisdiction (he must) look annoyed and tell him "thank you kindly but you do not!"
preeeeettttyyyy much.
but they're never that clear about asking you to consent to the jurisdiction. they assume you do because you turn up and don't argue.


Then His Honour has the option to dismiss ... or send it to a higher court.
who's honour?


267605
__________hey! how'd you get into my family album? that's my uncle-dad, jimmbowah. he hasn't been right since 'nam.


Wear nice clothes, maybe a tie even, speak politely, don't mumble, look the JP/Judge in the eye as you call him Sir,....
yeah. all said.
however i refuse to call anyone "sir" that has not been "knighted" - pissed me school "masters" right off. and they couldn't do fuck about it.

[Drew]

Let's back the truck up a tad. All this "part of a corporation I didn't sign up for" crap, is very compelling and interesting...except you don't know motoracer.

Anyone that does will know that he did in fact, sign up. Chap is from Nepal ( I think). He's a friend of mine so I say as nicely as possible, all this highlights one thing, he actually was careless. He admits it.

So although I am clearly outwitted, I have not overthought it. He needs to stick to simple respect and humility, to get as light a sentence, as such a good bugger deserves.

[Akzle]

Let's back the truck up a tad. All this "part of a corporation I didn't sign up for" crap, is very compelling and interesting...except you don't know motoracer.

Anyone that does will know that he did in fact, sign up.

yeah. that and even if it weren't - he admitted liability and acknowledged jurisdiction in the first sentence.

all the sensible advice has been dished out. now we're just dick waving.

[BoristheBiter]

yeah. that and even if it weren't - he admitted liability and acknowledged jurisdiction in the first sentence.

all the sensible advice has been dished out. now we're just dick waving.

You admit jurisdiction when you sign for your licence numbnuts.

[Drew]

You admit jurisdiction when you sign for your licence numbnuts.
"Dick waving" would not make his nuts go numb, I wouldn't have thought.

Site activist akzle has not actually admitted to having a license either, so you're wave is currently pretty little.

Carry on.

[Akzle]

"Dick waving" would not make his nuts go numb, I wouldn't have thought.

Site activist akzle has not actually admitted to having a license either, so you're wave is currently pretty little.

Carry on.

B-I-NGO!
B-I-NGO!
b-i-NGO
and bingo was his name-o.

i am not the holder of a license, as those who are, accept all kinds of fucked up rules that i just don't agree with.

also. when you say "YOUR license" i assume in your ignorance, you actually mean "[the NZTA]'s license". it's written into legislation that YOU don't actually own a license in any case. (are merely the holder)

go figure.

now i'm rubbing my nuts, they aint numb :D.

[rastuscat]

It seems the thread has deteriorated somewhat.

[jim.cox]

It seems the thread has deteriorated somewhat.

Just returning to the usual kiwibiker level...

[Drew]

It seems the thread has deteriorated somewhat.I don't see it.


Just returning to the usual kiwibiker level...
The message is the same, only the language has changed.

[rastuscat]

Right, back on track.

Donuts are sweet
Donuts are nice
Azkles a nutter
Cinnamons my favourite spice.

Meh.

[Drew]

Right, back on track.

Donuts are sweet
Donuts are nice
Azkles a nutter
Cinnamons my favourite spice.

Meh.That's not your best work, more effort required.

[caseye]

Hell I reckon!
Come on you lot you can all do better,lets see if we can actually discuss something without it degenerating into a shit throwing contest.
Buncha chimps.

[Akzle]

-moved posts deleted-




Donuts are sweet
Donuts are nice
Azkles a nutter
Cinnamons my favourite spice.


yeah. that is pretty weak. and you missed an apostrophe. and as far as a man who believes all men are born slaves, unless they strap on a blue hat, making them the slave-masters.. well. that's pretty nuts as far as i'm concerned.

[rastuscat]

-moved posts deleted-



yeah. that is pretty weak. and you missed an apostrophe

Agreed, pretty weak.

I blame Sam Hunt for the lack of apostrophes.

While you're here Azkle, would you mind if we stuck to discussing stuuff, with maybe occasional good humoured banter? The extreme bagging is a bit tedious.

[BoristheBiter]

Agreed, pretty weak.

I blame Sam Hunt for the lack of apostrophes.

While you're here Azkle, would you mind if we stuck to discussing stuuff, with maybe occasional good humoured banter? The extreme bagging is a bit tedious.

And you end up getting sent to PD:facepalm:

[scumdog]

i am not the holder of a license, as those who are, accept all kinds of fucked up rules that i just don't agree with.

also. when you say "YOUR license" i assume in your ignorance, you actually mean "[the NZTA]'s license". it's written into legislation that YOU don't actually own a license in any case. (are merely the holder)

go figure.

:D.

You're really a cop, aint ya??:crazy:

[Drew]

You're really a cop, aint ya??:crazy:

In Whangerie (sp) they prolly smoke as much weed as the unemployed I expect.

[Akzle]

I blame Sam Hunt for the lack of apostrophes.
i hate's that guy.


While you're here Azkle, would you mind if we stuck to discussing stuuff, with maybe occasional good humoured banter? The extreme bagging is a bit tedious.

i thought that's what we were about. sorry if you feel so teabagged... really wasn't the intent.

[Akzle]

In Whangerie (sp) they prolly smoke as much weed as the unemployed I expect.

most of them f*ing well are. :S

12 million a week coming in for our scummy-mummies.

[FJRider]

oh and pray, "smarty pants", what exactly is Google inc.'s definition of Offence or Infringement today?:motu:

Google it "Wiki" has a pretty good description ... ;)


who's honour?


Google it (re: Court) .... but I'm guessing it's not one of your familys trades ... :killingme

[Akzle]

oh and pray, "smarty pants", what exactly is Google inc.'s definition of Offence or Infringement today?:motu:

Google it "Wiki" has a pretty good description ... ;)



Google it (re: Court) .... but I'm guessing it's not one of your familys trades ... :killingme

i'm sure there was some english in there somewhere. but i'm struggling.

unfortunately son, neither google nor wiki can be quoted as reference.
and if you went to court with "but, your honor, i saw it on the internets", well that'd be plain hilarious.

alas. i am asking YOU to look it up, i know my meanings.

(PS, legislation was written before the internet :doh:)

[rastuscat]

Summary Proceedings Act 1957 Section 2

Infringement offense means any offense under any act in respect of which a person may be proceeded against by way of infringement notice.

So, infringement offenses are offenses. Just offenses you can get an instant fine for.

Careless Driving is an offense you can't get an instant fine for, and if you get found guilty, a conviction is entered against your name. It's not an infringement.

If you get a seatbelt infringement and defend it, and get found guilty, you don't get a conviction. You get "ordered to pay a fine" and thats a legal expression.

It's all playing with words, and means bugger all.:headbang:

[FJRider]

That's not your best work, more effort required.

Just think of it as "Essence of Rastucat" ... he only included the important bits ...

[Motoracer]

Let's back the truck up a tad. All this "part of a corporation I didn't sign up for" crap, is very compelling and interesting...except you don't know motoracer.

Anyone that does will know that he did in fact, sign up. Chap is from Nepal ( I think). He's a friend of mine so I say as nicely as possible, all this highlights one thing, he actually was careless. He admits it.

So although I am clearly outwitted, I have not overthought it. He needs to stick to simple respect and humility, to get as light a sentence, as such a good bugger deserves.

Thanks bro. Appreciate the kind words. :-)

Yep, I am a Nepali.

[Akzle]

It's all playing with words, and means bugger all.:headbang:and he has thus summed up the entire legal system beautifully.

ps. Good to see you learning some law, cop.

[actungbaby]

Due to the front wheel of my motorcycle elevating from the ground for a brief duration on the motorway on ramp, I have been handed a careless driving of a m/vehicle offense. Apparently I have to appear in court and the judge will decide my fate. Other than that, no fines or penalties were given to me by the traffic officer. I was very compliant with the officer the whole time and I apologized for any behavioral flaws in my driving that he had perceived at the time.

Can someone (a lawyer, a police officer or someone with experience with these matters) please help me out with legal advice on what I can do or can't do and how i can prepare for the court? Is there anywhere where I can look up the penalties for careless driving?

Thank you.

lets see you so excited that john key back in office as pm your wrist sliped and front wheel left the ground.

Oh you vote green party ,so that you keeping your greenhouse gas foot print lower by riding on the back wheel

[FJRider]

Good to see you learning some law, cop.

Actually ... he explained legislation ... not quoted law.

There is a difference ...

[scumdog]

and he has thus summed up the entire legal system beautifully.

ps. Good to see you learning some law, cop.

Whew, good to see SOMEBODY is doing something you agree with.

I suggest you become a lecturer as the 'police academy' and teach other cops 'some law'...:shifty::whistle:

[Akzle]

Actually ... he explained legislation ... not quoted law.

There is a difference ...

funny guy up in here.

(a shame i never said he "quoted law" :doh:)

[FJRider]

funny guy up in here.

(a shame i never said he "quoted law" :doh:)

Question for YOU ... Is Legislation ... LAW .... Yes or NO ... ???

[rastuscat]

Whew, good to see SOMEBODY is doing something you agree with:

Oi Scummie, DON'T YOU ACCUSE ME OF AGREEING WITK AZKLE..............whew, venting..........:eek5:

[Usarka]

Mmmmmm, momo's.

[rastuscat]

Mmmmmm, donuts

Fixed that for ya.

[Drew]

Mmmmm, arseless chaps

Fixed that for you both.

[SMOKEU]

The cop must have been a real asshole to charge someone over a trivial offence such as a wheelie.

[Akzle]

Question for YOU ... Is Legislation ... LAW .... Yes or NO ... ???

oh come on Figgy Jam.

although. i can see how you're still stupefied. when i type "Is Legislation ... LAW .... Yes or NO ... ???" into google... it doesn't give me the answer, either!!

(legislation is "regulatory law" or "statute")

[RUSS]

The nice policeman was all set to impound your bike under the boy racer laws (unnecessary exhibition of speed) which could be argued. Luckily I had a word with him and he only charged you with careless. Don't stress about the charge. You could just plead guilty by letter but my advice is phone and the police prosecutor Sgt. Ian HORSLEY and ask about diversion. Sign the sorry book and don't pull wheelies at 10:30 am on a busy motorway. You would be pushing it up hill to defend it and argue doing a wheel stand on the Grafton Road onramp was the actions of a normal prudent motorist.

[rastuscat]

What the last bloke said.

Horse is a decent bloke.

[RUSS]

It's a Traffic Offence ... not a Traffic Infringement.

A 3 or 6 month licence loss is often awarded ... as well as/with the court imposed fine.

No It's not. I have charged loads of people with careless use and never, ever has one been disqualified. Ever. In this case I would say probably diversion (police withdraw charge) or convicted and discharged (no fine) or maybee a $200 fine plus $139 court costs worst case.

A conviction for careless won't even usually prevent someone joining the NZ Police but sure doesn't help.

[Akzle]

The nice policeman was all set to impound your bike under the boy racer laws (unnecessary exhibition of speed) which could be argued. Luckily I had a word with him and he only charged you with careless. Don't stress about the charge. You could just plead guilty by letter but my advice is phone and the police prosecutor Sgt. Ian HORSLEY and ask about diversion. Sign the sorry book and don't pull wheelies at 10:30 am on a busy motorway. You would be pushing it up hill to defend it and argue doing a wheel stand on the Grafton Road onramp was the actions of a normal prudent motorist.

is it even legal/within your contract, that you would a) look that shit up and b) post it online?

highly fucking dubious.

[RUSS]

is it even legal/within your contract, that you would a) look that shit up and b) post it online?

highly fucking dubious.

I didn't need to look it up. I was on duty and I work with the Constable who stopped him. No prob engaging in a conversation because this is, as has been pointed out earlier, a public conversation. Are you suggesting I cannot be a member of a forum because of my occupation? I can even vote for whoever I want.

But if you were correct (that I looked it up) then you might have a point. But you're not. You're making assumptions.

[mossy1200]

is it even legal/within your contract, that you would a) look that shit up and b) post it online?

highly fucking dubious.


Russ is Judge Dredd.
AKA I am the law. Be carefull Akzle. Law breakers often get shot and you comments are outside of the Law.

Im just lucky my bike doesnt do wheelies. It just changes the position of the Earth.

[rastuscat]

No It's not. I have charged loads of people with careless use and never, ever has one been disqualified. Ever. In this case I would say probably diversion (police withdraw charge) or convicted and discharged (no fine) or maybee a $200 fine plus $139 court costs worst case.

A conviction for careless won't even usually prevent someone joining the NZ Police but sure doesn't help.

Standards patently differ.

In Churchur we use Section 80 of the LTA, and the Japes take licences for D502 all the time. We get them for L5 series too.

And a conviction for Careless (even diversion for Careless) keeps someone out of the job down here, at least for 3 or 4 years.

[RUSS]

Standards patently differ.

In Churchur we use Section 80 of the LTA, and the Japes take licences for D502 all the time. We get them for L5 series too.

And a conviction for Careless (even diversion for Careless) keeps someone out of the job down here, at least for 3 or 4 years.

Yeah I heard that. My sister was a defence lawyer in Hamilton and tells me her clients used to requset a transfer for sentencing in Auckland becuase they give lighter sentences. And yeah same here for the job, they wouldn't take you if you did it last week sort of thing and it depends what the politics of the day are and how desperate we are for recruits. Remember there was a brief time in the '90s when an old EBA wouldn't necessarly keep you out?

[scumdog]

Standards patently differ.

In Churchur we use Section 80 of the LTA, and the Japes take licences for D502 all the time. We get them for L5 series too.

.


Same down here - for a while the 'shiney-bums decreed that D502 would not be dealt with by way of diversion - luckily that's changed.

[RUSS]

Gave a formal warning out for careless today. Nice chap too keen to stop and get his ticket so he stopped in a live lane on the motorway. Fortunatly the truck driver behind me had his stuff together and I didn't need to practice my brake & escape. Still - not cool.

[Akzle]

I didn't need to look it up. I was on duty and I work with the Constable who stopped him. No prob engaging in a conversation because this is, as has been pointed out earlier, a public conversation. Are you suggesting I cannot be a member of a forum because of my occupation? I can even vote for whoever I want.

But if you were correct (that I looked it up) then you might have a point. But you're not. You're making assumptions.

who's making the assumptions.

if you're dumb enough to vote away your rights, well, as a (presumably) thinking adult, that's your choice. (you were dumb enough to sign up for the blue gang patch), or is it that you really believe you're making the community safer, together?

(this sounds snarky, but it's a serious question)

this may be a public forum, but AFAIK the OP has not posted details of the when where or who. your access to what may quite rightly be considered "privileged" information, and your distribution of that information, is highly dubious.

but please, since this is a public forum, what is your name, badge number, rank and CO?

your advice to the OP to bend over and plead guilty is also highly dubious and would seem to suit your "agency" 's agenda.

How would you be if i go posting pics, recordings and badge numbers of the cops unfortunate enough to meet me?

[scumdog]

but please, since this is a public forum, what is your name, badge number, rank and CO?

?

Mwahahah, he really IS DangerousBastard! - gonna take it international eh Axzle?:woohoo::laugh::killingme:rofl:

[Jantar]

Geez akzle, how bloody ignorant can you get.

The cops on this site are genuine motorcyclists who do their best to help and all you can do is complain and threaten. How about actually getting on your bike and going for a ride with some of these guys. Get a life and stop your bloody bitching.

[RUSS]

How would you be if i go posting pics, recordings and badge numbers of the cops unfortunate enough to meet me?

You are weel within your rights, as I'm sure you know, to post all that. Go hard, plenty do these days. There are no laws about taking and posting photos or videos in a public place - except those up-skirt ones of course. I'm not hiding. I even turn up to NASS now and again in uniform on a police bike.

But I'm not going to get into a poo flinging match with you, there's always one out there who wants the last word so have yours and good night.

[Ender EnZed]

what is your name, badge number, rank and CO?


It's about to get international around here.

:wari:

[Akzle]

Geez akzle, how bloody ignorant can you get.

The cops on this site are genuine motorcyclists who do their best to help and all you can do is complain and threaten. How about actually getting on your bike and going for a ride with some of these guys. Get a life and stop your bloody bitching.

what is it you believe i'm ignorant of?
and exactly what do you believe i'm threatening??

i don't care who's a genuine motorcyclist. when you put on a stab proof vest and set out to extort the community at the whim of the dictators of the day, you are, by definition and act, fuckin gestapo.

take off the silly hat, put down the guns, and i'll ride with em.
i have a life. what i consider to be a good, and productive one. at any rate, it's the only one i've been given, and i don't plan on wasting it at the dictates of some small men.
how 'bout you?

[mossy1200]

what is it you believe i'm ignorant of?
and exactly what do you believe i'm threatening??

i don't care who's a genuine motorcyclist. when you put on a stab proof vest and set out to extort the community at the whim of the dictators of the day, you are, by definition and act, fuckin gestapo.

take off the silly hat, put down the guns, and i'll ride with em.
i have a life. what i consider to be a good, and productive one. at any rate, it's the only one i've been given, and i don't plan on wasting it at the dictates of some small men.
how 'bout you?

Why the anger

If you dont like what happens outside the front gate just stay at home is a solution. Wheelie up and down your drive as long as your not making to much noise.

[Akzle]

You are weel within your rights, as I'm sure you know, to post all that. Go hard, plenty do these days. There are no laws about taking and posting photos or videos in a public place - except those up-skirt ones of course. I'm not hiding. I even turn up to NASS now and again in uniform on a police bike.

But I'm not going to get into a poo flinging match with you, there's always one out there who wants the last word so have yours and good night.

fuck being a cop. with answers like that you should have been a politician ( i hear the pay is better =) )

but since you've failed to answer those questions, maybe you can answer these: are men born equal? are men born free?

[Akzle]

Why the anger

If you dont like what happens outside the front gate just stay at home is a solution. Wheelie up and down your drive as long as your not making to much noise.

what anger?

i'm so glad your signature is what it is. else i might have taken you seriously.

at least rasty had the balls to say "i'm a cop so fuck what you think". this aucklander wont even own it.

[Kickaha]

Mwahahah, he really IS DangerousBastard! -

You'd hope so,it's fucking scary to think there'd be two dickheads that think like that

[FJRider]

this may be a public forum, but AFAIK the OP has not posted details of the when where or who. your access to what may quite rightly be considered "privileged" information, and your distribution of that information, is highly dubious.

but please, since this is a public forum, what is your name, badge number, rank and CO?

your advice to the OP to bend over and plead guilty is also highly dubious and would seem to suit your "agency" 's agenda.

How would you be if i go posting pics, recordings and badge numbers of the cops unfortunate enough to meet me?

He's a Cop ... not a lawyer. "Privileged information" ... I might have suggested you've read too many law books. But your inability to spell words of one syllable correctly ... suggests not. Or is english your second language ... ???

Since this is a public forum ... what is your name, hospital number, and current medications you're on ... ??? (You're obviously on something)

If the OP gets to court fighting the charge ... and police mention that an application for diversion WAS suggested, but chose to argue the charge (on your advice)... the seemingly lower penaltys for this charge in the Auckland area may not be repeated in this case.

PM the OP your address so he can find and thank you personally.

You have already posted enough dubious pic's already .... but ... if you've got nothing else to do ...

[Akzle]

He's a Cop ... not a lawyer. "Privileged information" ... I might have suggested you've read too many law books. But your inability to spell words of one syllable correctly ... suggests not. Or is english your second language ... ???

Since this is a public forum ... what is your name, hospital number, and current medications you're on ... ??? (You're obviously on something)

If the OP gets to court fighting the charge ... and police mention that an application for diversion WAS suggested, but chose to argue the charge (on your advice)... the seemingly lower penaltys for this charge in the Auckland area may not be repeated in this case.

PM the OP your address so he can find and thank you personally.

You have already posted enough dubious pic's already .... but ... if you've got nothing else to do ...

there are so many holes in that it's not funny. if i had something better to do, like shave my balls, i wouldn't bother replying. but anyway:
268163
268162

1- english is the language i use most. and i'm better at it that you. you're obviously trying to get me to say i'm maori and live on a marae. it aint gonna happen. racist prick.
2- i'm not the one touting this as a public forum to back up my "right" to spout information that the OP may have quite deliberately left out.
3- where exactly was it EVER my advice to ARGUE a CHARGE?
(this is one of the many things that leads me to question how you manage to feed yourself - the fact that you apparently don't understand anything)
4- the OP, and anyone else, is welcome to contact me if they wish to pursue what i know.
5- 268163

[BoristheBiter]

[COLOR="#139922"]

4- the OP, and anyone else, is welcome to contact me if they wish to pursue what i know.


Well that's a two second conversation.

[Swoop]

Gave a formal warning out for careless today. Nice chap too keen to stop and get his ticket so he stopped in a live lane on the motorway.
Stuff giving that retard a ticket or warning, just take his license away and do us all a favour. "Too stupid to operate a motor vehicle" or summat?

Was he a kiwi driver or a "kiwi" driver?<_<

[BoristheBiter]

[COLOR="#139922"]
there are so many holes in that it's not funny.

OOOOOOHHHHHHH he's found the red rep button,:yawn:
what ever will I do, Akzle doesn't like my post:crybaby::crybaby:
:finger:

[oneofsix]

OOOOOOHHHHHHH he's found the red rep button,:yawn:
what ever will I do, Akzle doesn't like my post:crybaby::crybaby:
:finger:

When a red rep is a green. Some people are colour blind.
:corn:

[Akzle]

...what ever will I do

well.. you could start by being a cock...

o.
wait on.

[BoristheBiter]

well.. you could start by being a cock...

o.
wait on.

:facepalm::crybaby::yawn:
Get some new material it was boring the first time.

You should go on a road trip down to see DB, or cookmysock as he likes to be called now (thinks he's P diddy) and discuss the failings of the non contract argument.
He might even give you a lick or at least you can hang out in a tree for a while.

[Bikemad]

there are so many holes in that it's not funny. if i had something better to do, like shave my balls, i wouldn't bother replying. but anyway:

1- english is the language i use most. and i'm better at it that you. you're obviously trying to get me to say i'm maori and live on a marae. it aint gonna happen. racist prick.
2- i'm not the one touting this as a public forum to back up my "right" to spout information that the OP may have quite deliberately left out.
3- where exactly was it EVER my advice to ARGUE a CHARGE?
(this is one of the many things that leads me to question how you manage to feed yourself - the fact that you apparently don't understand anything)
4- the OP, and anyone else, is welcome to contact me if they wish to pursue what i know.
5-

check the spelling in point 1 genius

[Drew]

check the spelling in point 1 geniusThere are no incorrectly spelt words in that point.

[Bikemad]

i disagree...........should read ....than ....rather than... that............shouldn't it?

[Drew]

i disagree...........should read ....than ....rather than... that............shouldn't it?

It should, but 'that' is a correctly spelt word isn't it?

You didn't ask for the sentece to make sense, just no incorrect spelling.

[Bikemad]

oh well i guess it depends on ya point of view...........Akzle will be along soon to put us right..........him being an exspurt at english and all.

[onearmedbandit]

It should, but 'that' is a correctly spelt word isn't it?

You didn't ask for the sentece to make sense, just no incorrect spelling.

Point and match to Drew.

[Bikemad]

but he still has to pass the dope test and Akzle could still confirm it was a spelling error rather than a grammatical error in which case i win on the countback .........i mean Akzle would never make a grammatical error like that...........he has mastered the english language better than the rest of us,or so i read somewhere

[scumdog]

but he still has to pass the dope test and Akzle could still confirm it was a spelling error rather than a grammatical error in which case i win on the countback .........i mean Akzle would never make a grammatical error like that...........he has mastered the english language better than the rest of us,or so i read somewhere

I think you're correct, he told us so himself - somewhere...

[jellywrestler]

1- english is the language i use most. and i'm better at it that you. you're obviously trying to get me to say i'm maori and live on a marae. it aint gonna happen. racist prick.



There are no incorrectly spelt words in that point.

except of course the word ain't.

[FJRider]

...........he has mastered the english language better than the rest of us,or so i read somewhere

He has his own society ... he has his own language. :yes:

I know this because I'm a racist prick ... apparently ... <_<

[FJRider]

except of course the word ain't.

It ain't what ... ???? :innocent:

[BoristheBiter]

It ain't what ... ???? :innocent:

The word. :confused:

[FJRider]

The word. :confused:

Hitcher may not approve of it ... But I ain't too worried about that ...

[Akzle]

:facepalm::crybaby::yawn:
Get some new material it was boring the first time.

You should go on a road trip down to see DB, or cookmysock as he likes to be called now (thinks he's P diddy) and discuss the failings of the non contract argument.
He might even give you a lick or at least you can hang out in a tree for a while.
hahahaha. you copy me. i'm flattered.

but i think you've got some deep seated emotional, anger and probably daddy issues to resolve. not to mentioni haven't seen you post one useful thing yet. so for now, until i see some intelligence outtaya. i'm ignoring you.
(don't we just know your answer already? "akzel's ignoring me waa waa")

There are no incorrectly spelt words in that point.
*spelled

[Akzle]

but he still has to pass the dope test and Akzle could still confirm it was a spelling error rather than a grammatical error in which case i win on the countback .........i mean Akzle would never make a grammatical error like that...........he has mastered the english language better than the rest of us,or so i read somewhere

you can tell the thread's done when it comes down to picking holes in MY sense-ical-es-ness-ism.

"that" was a was a cockup. i'm unsure if ain't should have an apostrophe.

[BoristheBiter]

hahahaha. you copy me. i'm flattered.

but i think you've got some deep seated emotional, anger and probably daddy issues to resolve. not to mentioni haven't seen you post one useful thing yet. so for now, until i see some intelligence outtaya. i'm ignoring you.
(don't we just know your answer already? "akzel's ignoring me waa waa")

*spelled

God you're just no fun anymore.:bleh:
I'l have to back to trolling Mashman.



you can tell the thread's done when it comes down to picking holes in MY sense-ical-es-ness-ism.

"that" was a was a cockup. i'm unsure if ain't should have an apostrophe.


Yes it should but it is not the best form of English as it is a colloquialism and contraction for "am not", "is not", "are not", "has not", and "have not"

[Clockwork]

Meanwhile, back on topic...



Standards patently differ.

In Churchur we use Section 80 of the LTA, and the Japes take licences for D502 all the time. We get them for L5 series too.

And a conviction for Careless (even diversion for Careless) keeps someone out of the job down here, at least for 3 or 4 years.


Yeah I heard that. My sister was a defence lawyer in Hamilton and tells me her clients used to requset a transfer for sentencing in Auckland becuase they give lighter sentences. And yeah same here for the job, they wouldn't take you if you did it last week sort of thing and it depends what the politics of the day are and how desperate we are for recruits. Remember there was a brief time in the '90s when an old EBA wouldn't necessarly keep you out?


Same down here - for a while the 'shiney-bums decreed that D502 would not be dealt with by way of diversion - luckily that's changed.

Seems to me that this is the problem with bull$hit catch-all charges such as this being (ab)used where no specific offence has actually been committed. Where it appears even the Police and the courts, region by region can not/will not apply a consistent response.

As far as I can tell from the OP the only "careless" thing he did here was not checking to see if there was a Police Officer in the vicinity.

It could be said his actions were care free, I'm not sure that that is the same thing as careless.

[Drew]

I wonder if this defence would work. "I was not careless your honour. I did it on purpose with much care and due attention".

[Jantar]

I must admit that anytime I'm on only one wheel I am very careful and paying a lot of attention. Don't know that I'd want to say that to a judge though.

[Drew]

I must admit that anytime I'm on only one wheel I am very careful and paying a lot of attention. Don't know that I'd want to say that to a judge though.If they get me after witnessing me do a wheelie, it'd depend on what they charged me with.

[rastuscat]

I wonder if this defence would work. "I was not careless your honour. I did it on purpose with much care and due attention".

Erm........suggest against that........it establishes men's rea...........

[Akzle]

Erm........suggest against that........it establishes men's rea...........

please tell me that was an apostrophe pisstake. you can't even blame hunt on this one.

if you're not PLEADING GUILTY, you do not have a GUILTY MIND. if you are stating you believed you had a CLAIM OF RIGHT to do it... you'd be legally entitled to...

[FJRider]

I must admit that anytime I'm on only one wheel I am very careful and paying a lot of attention. Don't know that I'd want to say that to a judge though.

I must admit ... if I'm on one wheel, one of the buggers must have fallen off. :facepalm:

[Jantar]

I must admit ... if I'm on one wheel, one of the buggers must have fallen off. :facepalm:
And with your bike that is highly likely. :shutup:

[Drew]

Erm........suggest against that........it establishes men's rea...........Kind of, but to charge other than careless I would think.

Bit hard really, I don't fully understand the legal system. Does that double jeopardy thing only apply to all charges?

[Drew]

I must admit ... if I'm on one wheel, one of the buggers must have fallen off. :facepalm:


And with your bike that is highly likely. :shutup:I've wheelied my business partners FJ, they're just a little bit porky so ya need to be gentle on teh landing.

[FJRider]

And with your bike that is highly likely. :shutup:

I'm more likely to fall off ... than a wheel. I have super strength duct tape holding the nut on. :yes:

I'm glad you saw the light and sold the pink suzuki ... and bought a blue one ... :yes:

[FJRider]

I've wheelied my business partners FJ, they're just a little bit porky so ya need to be gentle on teh landing.

I never said it was impossible ... or even difficult. My personal preference is to keep both wheels in contact with the tarmac. :innocent:

I've been known to have both wheels not in contact with the road. :pinch:

[Drew]

I never said it was impossible ... or even difficult. My personal preference is to keep both wheels in contact with the tarmac. :innocent:

I've been known to have both wheels not in contact with the road. :pinch:Me too....

[Clockwork]

Erm........suggest against that........it establishes men's rea...........

Sure but it doesn't prove guilt. I ask you, where in the road rules does it say you can't ride on one wheel? Are all unicyclists Careless users?

Surely the point is the charge is "careless use". But a wheelie of itself is not necessarily careless. Oddly enough, speeding because you don't know the speed limit or you are unaware of your speed would be careless.

[RUSS]

Sure but it doesn't prove guilt. I ask you, where in the road rules does it say you can't ride on one wheel? Are all unicyclists Careless users?

Surely the point is the charge is "careless use". But a wheelie of itself is not necessarily careless. Oddly enough, speeding because you don't know the speed limit or you are unaware of your speed would be careless.

Careless is the name of the charge, but like a lot of charges you can't just take the word "careless" as the be all and end all. e.g. the charge of wilful damage. You might think by the title that to be convicted of the charge you would have to deliberately damaged property yes? No, because if you read on it includes damaging by being reckless, no intention needed.

And yes you could argue speeding is careless use, as are most every other ticket you can get. We have careless because you can't have a ticket for everything, people will just think up some new dumb thing to do with a vehicle. Like now using a cell phone will get you an 80 instant fine, but previously it would be careless driving or nothing. Like there is no rule specifically saying you can't ride through heavy traffic sitting on the bars facing the wrong way while rolling a cigarette, but it's careless driving.

[DEATH_INC.]

Like there is no rule specifically saying you can't ride through heavy traffic sitting on the bars facing the wrong way while rolling a cigarette, but it's careless driving.

Bugger, better stop doing that then....

I thought that wheelies are covered under the new 'sustained loss of traction' law?

[RUSS]

Bugger, better stop doing that then....

I thought that wheelies are covered under the new 'sustained loss of traction' law?

Yeah, really takes the fun off riding doesn't it.

There is an argument that it is because there is a loss of traction on the front wheel, but that's not what the people who wrote the law had in mind when they wrote it. It's clearly aimed at doughnuts, drifting etc. Better argument would be an unnecessary exhibition of acceleration.

[Jantar]

Yeah, really takes the fun off riding doesn't it.

There is an argument that it is because there is a loss of traction on the front wheel, but that's not what the people who wrote the law had in mind when they wrote it. It's clearly aimed at doughnuts, drifting etc. Better argument would be an unnecessary exhibition of acceleration.So if I lift the front wheel at 100kmh, and remain at that speed, where is there any exhibiton of accelleration?

[Clockwork]

TBH I doubt wheelies were what they had in mind when the framed the careless use charge too but that's the problem with its use from my POV here.

Look, I agree some actions are dangerous, some are reckless. I believe charges exist for such activities and I have no particular issue with the courts being used to determine if the actions justify these charges but to call an action careless when it isn't just because some individuals in authority need a catch-all with which to punish activities that have not otherwise been legislated against is an abuse of that authority IMO. I was simply pointing out that such an abuse seems to have lead to an inconsistence in its use and consequences. Not a good look for the Judicial system as a whole really.

Until the recent law change, the authorities were reluctant to charge driving cell-phone users with careless use unless there had been some demonstrable consequence for doing so. The result was that laws were written to prohibit the activity. Yet such law still don't exist prohibiting wheelies.

Wheelie through a built up area or while splitting through traffic, sure charge them with dangerous or reckless. But up a Motorway on-ramp??


.

[RUSS]

TBH I doubt wheelies were what they had in mind when the framed the careless use charge too but that's the problem with its use from my POV here.

Look, I agree some actions are dangerous, some are reckless. I believe charges exist for such activities and I have no particular issue with the courts being used to determine if the actions justify these charges but to call an action careless when it isn't just because some individuals in authority need a catch-all with which to punish activities that have not otherwise been legislated against is an abuse of that authority IMO. I was simply pointing out that such an abuse seems to have lead to an inconsistence in its use and consequences. Not a good look for the Judicial system as a whole really.

Until the recent law change, the authorities were reluctant to charge driving cell-phone users with careless use unless there had been some demonstrable consequence for doing so. The result was that laws were written to prohibit the activity. Yet such law still don't exist prohibiting wheelies.

Wheelie through a built up area or while splitting through traffic, sure charge them with dangerous or reckless. But up a Motorway on-ramp??


.

Well opinions are like arse holes. Everyone's got one. In saying that, here's mine (opinion not arse). Being a "catch all" would be exactly what they had in mind when they wrote the legislation. They are all over the law and mean they don't have to come up with a new specific law each week. Sometimes it's a future proofing thing, like the definition of document was changed a couple years back to include electronic records. Back in the day they would never have been able to see text messages etc coming.

And no, speaking for myself as a police constable working on Aucklands Motorways with twenty years road riding experience five of which are as a police motorcyclist, it was discretion that stopped me charging people for careless for using a cell phone. I personally would not send a guy to court for using a cell phone. It's out of proportion to the offending and it costs the taxpayer valuable police and court time. An $80 fine is about right.

But I did not personally witness the wheelie so can't say if I would have done anything about it. I can say I have stopped and spoken to a guy who pulled a short low wheelie, but didn't feel it was worthy of any sort of charge.

As a general rule for riding, just to be safe, if you wouldn't want the police to see you do it - don't do it. If you couldn't care-less if one does then be prepared to go to court.

[BoristheBiter]

Well opinions are like arse holes. Everyone's got one. In saying that, here's mine (opinion not arse). Being a "catch all" would be exactly what they had in mind when they wrote the legislation. They are all over the law and mean they don't have to come up with a new specific law each week. Sometimes it's a future proofing thing, like the definition of document was changed a couple years back to include electronic records. Back in the day they would never have been able to see text messages etc coming.

And no, speaking for myself as a police constable working on Aucklands Motorways with twenty years road riding experience five of which are as a police motorcyclist, it was discretion that stopped me charging people for careless for using a cell phone. I personally would not send a guy to court for using a cell phone. It's out of proportion to the offending and it costs the taxpayer valuable police and court time. An $80 fine is about right.

But I did not personally witness the wheelie so can't say if I would have done anything about it. I can say I have stopped and spoken to a guy who pulled a short low wheelie, but didn't feel it was worthy of any sort of charge.

As a general rule for riding, just to be safe, if you wouldn't want the police to see you do it - don't do it. If you couldn't care-less if one does then be prepared to go to court.


Common sense :facepalm: what are you thinking?

[Gremlin]

Common sense :facepalm: what are you thinking?
He only has 61 posts, leave the poor man alone and give him some time to sink to the level of those around here... or go mad at the stupidity and still sink to our level :confused:

[wysper]

He only has 61 posts, leave the poor man alone and give him some time to sink to the level of those around here... or go mad at the stupidity and still sink to our level :confused:

Wise words Master Gremlin.

[rastuscat]

Careless driving. Were the actions of the driver those of a careful and prudent driver, judged objectively?

Dangerous driving is careless driving (see above) that poses a danger to a person or persons.

Reckless driving is driving which is dangerous (see above) where it can be proved that it was done with intent, or with reckless disregard for the consequences.

Escalating scale, careless is first, then dangerous, then reckless.

Sorry to be so damn factual.

Cinnamon donuts are still the best.

[FJRider]

So if I lift the front wheel at 100kmh, and remain at that speed, where is there any exhibiton of accelleration?

It's a suzuki ... from 100 km/hr .... any increase from there would be unlikely ... :shifty:

[Drew]

So if I lift the front wheel at 100kmh, and remain at that speed, where is there any exhibiton of accelleration?Did you step off and literally pick up the front wheel whilst running beside the bike? Because it requiers the rear wheel accelerating faster than the bike to lift the front wheel.


It's a suzuki ... from 100 km/hr .... any increase from there would be unlikely ... :shifty:I can prove otherwise!

[DEATH_INC.]

Wheelie's aren't really dangerous or careless all the time. Myself along with plenty of others are quite capable of tootling along in the motorway traffic on the rear wheel, quite safely, even safer than a lot of the idiots on four wheels. I even know a couple of guys that are pretty damn safe wheelying at 50k in the traffic, yet it is still seemingly an offence.
No point arguing about it, we've all tried, and lost.

[FJRider]

Did you step off and literally pick up the front wheel whilst running beside the bike? Because it requiers the rear wheel accelerating faster than the bike to lift the front wheel.

I can prove otherwise!

You haven't seen the bumps in his driveway. (I have) :facepalm:

Pic's or it didn't happen ... :confused:

[FJRider]

Wheelie's aren't really dangerous or careless all the time. Myself along with plenty of others are quite capable of tootling along in the motorway traffic on the rear wheel, quite safely, even safer than a lot of the idiots on four wheels. I even know a couple of guys that are pretty damn safe wheelying at 50k in the traffic, yet it is still seemingly an offence.
No point arguing about it, we've all tried, and lost.

The same could be said about marajuana ... the goverment is going to great lengths (and expense) to eradicate it ... and all these people (experts on the subject ... all of them) say it's safe.

They've tried arguing about it too ... and lost. But they think there's a point to continue trying ...

[Jantar]

You haven't seen the bumps in his driveway. (I have) :facepalm:

Is that why I sometimes have both wheels off the ground even when not accellerating?

[DEATH_INC.]

The same could be said about marajuana ... the goverment is going to great lengths (and expense) to eradicate it ... and all these people (experts on the subject ... all of them) say it's safe.
Soooo, riding through heavy traffic sitting on the bars facing the wrong way while rolling a joint is even more Illegal? You can't do anything fun in this damn country....

[FJRider]

Is that why I sometimes have both wheels off the ground even when not accellerating?

Or like me ... the bike and I are having a lie down. :innocent:

[FJRider]

Soooo, riding through heavy traffic sitting on the bars facing the wrong way while rolling a joint is even more Illegal? You can't do anything fun in this damn country....

But the good news is ... if you're doing it on one wheel it's only dangerous.

And if you live in auckland ... the penalties are mild. (Compared to the mainland)

[Akzle]

Kind of, but to charge other than careless I would think.

Bit hard really, I don't fully understand the legal system. Does that double jeopardy thing only apply to all charges?
no clear double jeopardy laws in NZ

Soooo, riding through heavy traffic sitting on the bars facing the wrong way while rolling a joint is even more Illegal? You can't do anything fun in this damn country....
damn. there goes my sunday arvo trip to the beach.

[Madness]

The same could be said about marajuana ... the goverment is going to great lengths (and expense) to eradicate it ... and all these people (experts on the subject ... all of them) say it's safe.

They've tried arguing about it too ... and lost. But they think there's a point to continue trying ...

Wrong place to rehash this old chestnut so all I'll say is Baaaaaaaaaa.

[FJRider]

Wrong place to rehash this old chestnut so all I'll say is Baaaaaaaaaa.

I thought it was worth a try at a troll ... I can't win them all. :innocent:

[98tls]

You haven't seen the bumps in his driveway. (I have) :facepalm:

Pic's or it didn't happen ... :confused:

Bumps n driveways:motu::yawn:The bumps on the Waitaki bridge were overcome on one wheel all those years ago mate,though i didnt much enjoy the walk home afterwards.:angry:

[FJRider]

Bumps n driveways:motu::yawn:The bumps on the Waitaki bridge were overcome on one wheel all those years ago mate,though i didnt much enjoy the walk home afterwards.:angry:

Concerning Jantar's driveway. Don't think bumps ... think judder bars.

And the pot-holes gave the activity of Pot-holing it's name.


And as for your walk ... you probably needed the exercise.

[Jantar]

Concerning Jantar's driveway. Don't think bumps ... think judder bars.

And the pot-holes gave the activity of Pot-holing it's name.

And as for your walk ... you probably needed the exercise.

Hey that's not fair. I know some of the pot holes were getting a bit deep, but they have been filled now. I had to do something about it seeing as I now ride a road bike instead of an adventure bike, and a neighbour went missing in one for two days on his KTM. But We have left some of the minor corrugations just to remind you it is a dirt road, and the drop off is still there in case you want to some air under your wheels.

[aprilia_RS250]

Due to the front wheel of my motorcycle elevating from the ground for a brief duration on the motorway on ramp, I have been handed a careless driving of a m/vehicle offense. Apparently I have to appear in court and the judge will decide my fate. Other than that, no fines or penalties were given to me by the traffic officer. I was very compliant with the officer the whole time and I apologized for any behavioral flaws in my driving that he had perceived at the time.

Can someone (a lawyer, a police officer or someone with experience with these matters) please help me out with legal advice on what I can do or can't do and how i can prepare for the court? Is there anywhere where I can look up the penalties for careless driving?

Thank you.

Just read your post, seriously say you sneezed and it was unintentional, if you have a clean record and weren't being an ass to the cop you'll probably get a warning.

[Macontour]

Wrong place to rehash this old chestnut so all I'll say is Baaaaaaaaaa.


REHASH!!!!!!!!!! Excellent choice of a word.

[Akzle]

...

not so fuken public when your nuts are called to the table huh.

[RUSS]

not so fuken public when your nuts are called to the table huh.

Huh?

I use my actual name and have said where I work and what I do. You're weird.

[justsomeguy]

PM sent with lawyers details. Just get one.

my 2c.