Still can't figure out what's wrong with my Suzuki TS [Archive]

Matariki

3rd August 2012, 18:16

I've had my Suzuki TS now for quite sometime but I haven't been able to enjoy it out on the road yet as I can't figure whats going on with it. I did take it to the local mechanics (Langlands) last time and I ended up having $500 eaten out of my back pocket (mind you they did get it going).

Here are a list of the problems:
Engine turns over but won't start (with the choke up/on, and the fuel tank on - not on reserve or off) I know how to kick start a 2 stroke engine as I have done it before, but this time its not going at all.
Blinkers/Indicator lights going but not blinking.
Headlight is not going (brake lights are fine though).

I have a Haynes manual, but I can't get my head around half of the terminology that's being used and I don't know where to look in the manual for the problems posted above. My manual suggests several things:

Engine does not Start When Turned Over;

No Fuel Flow to the Carburetor - I don't know how to determine this on my motorcycle (there are no pictures in my manual covering this subject)
Fuel not Reaching Cylinder - Same as above
Engine Flooding - I have done the usual things so far (choke on, checking the fuel tank - I don't think the engine is flooding due to my kick starting technique since I have got the motorcycle up and running before)
No Spark at Plug
Weak Spark at Plug
Compression Low

Electrical Problems;

Battery Weak or Dead - I don't think this is the problem as some of the lights are working, while others are not
Battery Overcharged - I have my doubts on this (as the motorcycle was working fine after it was taken to the mechanics, the battery has not been charged since)
Total Electrical Failure - I don't think this is the problem as some of the lights are working, while others are not
Circuit Failure - This could be the culprit, but I don't fully understand basic motorcycle mechanics to determine this (my dad who has experience with electronics also thinks this might be one of the problems)
Bulbs Blowing Repeatedly - I have not experienced this when I turn on the motorcycle

I would love to diagnose and fix my motorcycle myself and I would get a mechanic to do it if it didn't eat so much out of my pocket. :(
I do have the correct tools for the job now (as my manual recommended).

Thanks for reading, any help is appreciated.

Paul in NZ

3rd August 2012, 18:23

Sounds like we might need to make a field trip to see... Too much going on to diagnose over the net..

Ender EnZed

3rd August 2012, 18:26

What was wrong with it when you took it into the bike shop and what did they do to fix it?

jellywrestler

3rd August 2012, 18:44

you're in Greytown; Go see Doug
he's been around so long that when he was young the dead sea was only sick.
he'll be able to give you an idea.

Matariki

3rd August 2012, 19:07

you're in Greytown; Go see Doug
he's been around so long that when he was young the dead sea was only sick.
he'll be able to give you an idea.

Where could I find him? Is he a local mechanic in Greytown?

Matariki

3rd August 2012, 19:11

What was wrong with it when you took it into the bike shop and what did they do to fix it?

They mainly fixed the eletricals, I can't remember everything that they went over, but I'm pretty sure it was to do with the indicators, headlight, and I'm pretty sure they also installed a new battery. Hmm... I wonder if the problem is lose connections?

jellywrestler

3rd August 2012, 19:34

Where could I find him? Is he the local mechanic in Greytown?

west street tell him spyda sent you

jellywrestler

3rd August 2012, 19:35

They mainly fixed the eletricals, I can't remember everything that they went over, but I'm pretty sure it was to do with the indicators, headlight, and I'm pretty sure they also installed a new battery. Hmm... I wonder if the problem is lose connections?
get the job sheet out, it'll stop the next person going over stuff you've already paid for

The Baron

3rd August 2012, 20:24

There is also Barry Jessop Motorcyle services Kitchener Street Masterton. Much cheaper Hourly rate than the other bike shops in town as he works from home.

Matariki

3rd August 2012, 20:43

west street tell him spyda sent you

Ah yes, so he's located on the same street I live on. Is he located behind Challenge?

jellywrestler

3rd August 2012, 20:47

Ah yes, so he's located on the same street I live on. Is he located behind Challenge?
You're making it hard, its'a small town, I've given you the street, and the name; if you can't find him there's really no helping you.
That's all sorry

Rhys

3rd August 2012, 20:49

The older TS were pigs on spark plugs, I would pop a new plug in, could be a cheap fix

TS is good honest simple bikes :2thumbsup

FJRider

3rd August 2012, 20:50

Matariki

3rd August 2012, 23:29

Being a two-stroke ... My bet would be the plug is buggered .... Or at least needs a clean. Look at THAT first.

And the other thing to look at would be ... it may be flooding. Turn the fuel tap off when not in use.

If it's a 2003 one ... it will be "modern" enough for a CDI ignition.(I may stand to be corrected on this) They dont last forever ...

BUT ... if the air-filter is dirty ... :no:

It needs fuel/air/spark to run. You find what it doesn't have.

This is what my father concluded after I gave him the electrical diagrams and had a quick look over the motorcycle, my dad is experienced with electronics and he believes the problem is electrical. He was surprised to see that my motorcycle even had a CDI ignition, but he appears to be pretty confident that he knows what he's looking at.

Me and my him are going to go over it more thoroughly tomorrow.

Matariki

3rd August 2012, 23:32

You're making it hard, its'a small town, I've given you the street, and the name; if you can't find him there's really no helping you.
That's all sorry

Thats ok, I'm fairly new to my town and don't know the folk here very well. I only know of the mechanics behind Challenge (R&B Motors), and I haven't yet spoken to them yet to ask whether or not they service motorcycles.

neels

3rd August 2012, 23:52

As above, start with a new spark plug, kick it over a few times with the plug out to get some fresh air in there. Stick a plug into the plug lead and rest it on the engine, kick it and see if there is any spark.

Headlight probably from a separate coil, so won't work until the engine is running, you may see it light up briefly when it's kicked over. Indicators not flashing could be the battery a bit low, worry about that once it's running.

Not sure about always starting with the choke on, I usually try starting without choke first then flick it on if it won't idle, otherwise it can end up flooded before it's even tried to fire.

Good luck.

FJRider

3rd August 2012, 23:59

This is what my father concluded after I gave him the electrical diagrams and had a quick look over the motorcycle, my dad is experienced with electronics and he believes the problem is electrical. He was surprised to see that my motorcycle even had a CDI ignition, but he appears to be pretty confident that he knows what he's looking at.

Me and my him are going to go over it more thoroughly tomorrow.

Take the plug cap off the HT lead ... hold your finger on it's end ... with the other hand on the cylinder ... get your father to kick it over (with the plug out it has better effect)

YOU will know if there is power going to the plug. (trust me on this)

gammaguy

4th August 2012, 00:32

hope you dont have a heart condition because after a shock from a spark plug lead you certainly will

merv

4th August 2012, 00:44

If it's a 2003 one ... it will be "modern" enough for a CDI ignition.(I may stand to be corrected on this) They dont last forever ...

While he's got a 2003 it doesn't matter how modern it is all the TS185 had CDI ignition http://motors.shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=ts185+cdi we had one of the first 1971-72 models and it did.

TimeOut

4th August 2012, 06:50

jellywrestler

4th August 2012, 09:04

Thats ok, I'm fairly new to my town and don't know the folk here very well. I only know of the mechanics behind Challenge (R&B Motors), and I haven't yet spoken to them yet to ask whether or not they service motorcycles.

well how about going up and down west street and seeing if there's anywhere else that looks like they may actually be a workshop, and if there is ask for Doug, he won't bite, and he is addicted to motorcycles.

Supertwin Don

4th August 2012, 09:37

A TS185ER that I had some years ago used to cut out - usually after heavy rain - and I discovered that the main electrical connector behind the headlight was the wrong way up - the socket part faced upwards and water would puddle in the bottom and the corrosion formed would short out some of the connections, killing everything - have you checked for that?

ktm84mxc

4th August 2012, 09:58

Check the kill button for shorts , fit a new plug think its a NGK 8es , tip the bike over to drain the carb of its stale fuel turn the fuel tap on wait to let the carb fill kick away.
the head light won't go unless the motors running, horn indicators brake light run of the battery. A 2 smoke will fire if there's fuel air compression and spark, a battery is not required.

Dadpole

4th August 2012, 10:41

Doug Fairbrother
246 West St Greytown
Ph 304 9049

A genuine GC.

Jantar

4th August 2012, 11:02

With a two stroke of that age, I'm suprised no-one has mentioned the obvious. If you have spark, then forget about the CDI, it is fine. If the spark plug looks wet after kicking it over then it is getting fuel, and those old mikuni carbs can be a long way out and still give a good burnable mixture.

The one BIG thing that affects all two strokes as they get older is the main shaft seals. These get hard and allows fuel/air mix to escape from, and clean air to be sucked into the crankcase. The effective compression is reduced and the mixture is now far too lean. Result - hard to start.

Matariki

4th August 2012, 12:54

well how about going up and down west street and seeing if there's anywhere else that looks like they may actually be a workshop, and if there is ask for Doug, he won't bite, and he is addicted to motorcycles.

I will do so if the problem is more than my father can figure out. My dad reckons he can fix the electricals, but if its anything else I will go down and see If I can find Doug.

Matariki

4th August 2012, 12:56

hope you dont have a heart condition because after a shock from a spark plug lead you certainly will

Yes, I do have a heart condition and so does my father. We won't be shocking ourselves with spark plug leads anytime soon (if we can help it).

Matariki

4th August 2012, 12:57

Doug Fairbrother
246 West St Greytown
Ph 304 9049

A genuine GC.

Ah! Thankyou very much ;)

Matariki

4th August 2012, 12:59

My '75 185 was choke down/on not up

Also no throttle at all with choke on

Really? I had no idea...

Paul in NZ

4th August 2012, 18:29

How hard can it be....

I'll need to take the Guzzler for a test ride - you want us to come take a look see?

Matariki

4th August 2012, 19:22

How hard can it be....

I'll need to take the Guzzler for a test ride - you want us to come take a look see?

I don't mind, if you don't. No pressure though, I have most of the basic tools required to open and inspect the bike if needed. Of course, it depends when you would like to come over and have a look.

Matariki

5th August 2012, 19:52

Update:

Me and Dad decided to have a look at the spark plug. So for the first time together we followed my Haynes manual and took the tank off the bike and then using a torque wrench we got the spark plug out. Dad wanted me to do most of the work since its my motorcycle, I found that doing what I just did was far more easier than I thought it was going to be (allot more easier than what the manual was making it out to be, and more too). From the looks of the spark plug and the amount of accumulated rust on it, I think it would be safe to say that it probably hadn't been changed since the motorcycle was manufactured considering its low mileage (less than 5000km).

The spark plug looked dirty (black) and sooty (as shown in this picture - no, this is not the spark plug I removed from my motorcycle).

267679

Me and Dad are going down to the nearest motorcycle shop tomorrow to get another spark plug and feeler gauge.
We are also going to look into the electrics and the air filter.

Katman

5th August 2012, 20:08

Me and Dad decided to have a look at the spark plug. So for the first time together we followed my Haynes manual and took the tank off the bike and then using a torque wrench we got the spark plug out.

Sorry, but if your Dad suggested using a torque wrench to remove the spark plug then I'd suggest anything mechanical is likely to be beyond him.

Matariki

5th August 2012, 20:37

Sorry, but if your Dad suggested using a torque wrench to remove the spark plug then I'd suggest anything mechanical is likely to be beyond him.

We also used a spark plug socket. My manual as well as various other sources said I could use a torque wrench for the job.
According to wikipedia, a torque wrench is usually in the form of a socket wrench with special internal mechanisms. It got the job done, why, is it a problem?
And no, my father nor I are mechanics nor have experience with mechanics, we are learning together.

On that note, My dad is very experienced with electronics and general DIY, though mind you if he suggests something that screws up the motorcycle he can pay for it to get it fixed. ;)

Katman

5th August 2012, 20:38

We also used a spark plug socket.

Well that's something.

At least you didn't use a screwdriver.

pete376403

5th August 2012, 20:45

We also used a spark plug socket. My manual as well as various other sources said I could use a torque wrench for the job.
According to wikipedia, a torque wrench is usually in the form of a socket wrench with special internal mechanisms. It got the job done, why, is it a problem?
And no, my father nor I are mechanics nor have experience with mechanics, we are learning together.

On that note, My dad is very experienced with electronics and general DIY, though mind you if he suggests something that screws up the motorcycle he can pay for it to get it fixed. ;)

Torque wrench is intended to provide a correct tightening torque for threaded fasteners. Loosening fasteners is not its intended purpose, but it doesn't really make much difference. Someone is suggesting that your use of the torque wrench to remove the spark plug indicates a lack of mechanical nous (which you readily admit to, anyway)
Katman is a bit like that (Superior to everyone else) - don;t worry about it.

Rhys

5th August 2012, 20:47

Sorry, but if your Dad suggested using a torque wrench to remove the spark plug then I'd suggest anything mechanical is likely to be beyond him.

But at lest they are giving it a go TS's are a very simple but robust little motor and will handle a "amateur" approach

I learnt how to adjust brakes, change plugs replace sprockets put on new chain's on a TS

Katman

5th August 2012, 20:52

But at lest they are giving it a go TS's are a very simple but robust little motor and will handle a "amateur" approach

Yes, I've seen many results of the clueless 'giving it a go'.

Usually it's not pretty.

ktm84mxc

5th August 2012, 20:58

Plus 1 for a TS to learn on , you have to be pretty ham fisted to fuck one up, just don't over tighten any bolts as they easily strip or snap.

Matariki

5th August 2012, 21:07

Torque wrench is intended to provide a correct tightening torque for threaded fasteners. Loosening fasteners is not its intended purpose, but it doesn't really make much difference. Someone is suggesting that your use of the torque wrench to remove the spark plug indicates a lack of mechanical nous (which you readily admit to, anyway)
Katman is a bit like that (Superior to everyone else) - don;t worry about it.

Well, my dad actually just corrected me. The tool I used (which I thought was a toque wrench) turned out not to be a torque wrench, but a socket wrench with a spark plug socket. :o
My dad also explained to me what a torque wrench was and what it is used for (and he pretty much quoted what you just said).

Matariki

5th August 2012, 21:14

Well that's something.

At least you didn't use a screwdriver.

Why would I use a screwdriver?

JMemonic

5th August 2012, 21:27

Yes, I've seen many results of the clueless 'giving it a go'.

Usually it's not pretty.

Gotta start somewhere and learn, but of course you were hatched knowing everything being the god you believe yourself to be.

Good on the OP trying to learn and asking questions, shame some of the answers are a bit warped

Matariki

5th August 2012, 23:53

Gotta start somewhere and learn, but of course you were hatched knowing everything being the god you believe yourself to be.

Good on the OP trying to learn and asking questions, shame some of the answers are a bit warped

Thanks :yes:

ducatilover

6th August 2012, 00:16

As said, if you have spark you can forget the CDI, and I'm pretty sure the ignition timing can't fall out of whack on 'em.
As for the headlight, check for any inline fuses on the +12v side of the battery
Power to the headlight is the yellow/red wire from the magneto/stator, so it's not going to work without the engine running AFAIK

Hopefully it's just the plug though (which is going to make me ride in to Langlands and burn it down)

Matariki

7th August 2012, 20:22

Ocean1

7th August 2012, 20:50

Update: Me and Dad went up to Masterton and we picked up a new spark plug and a feeler gauge from Lins Auto. Though we forgot to get some anti seize, my manual recommends that I get a graphite grease to cover the threads with. I'm not entirely sure where I can pick it up from (me and dad are going to try the local motorcycle stores), but just in case, does anyone know what are some good brands of anti seize available that would be suitable for my motorcycle?

Wouldn't worry about it too much, far more plugs are installed without it than otherwise.
You could rub a pencil over the thread I guess, better than nothing. More important that you torque it up about right.

Matariki

18th August 2012, 20:37

Update: YAY! Me and dad finally got it going! :wings:

What we ended up doing under Ixion's advice was we bought a can of 'start ya bastard', which we sprayed bit down the spark plug hole. We then installed the new spark plug after testing it, and kicked started it until there was no tomorrow (we had to end up repeating this process twice because I botched it up the first time by farting around and leaving the choke up by accident). We found that the electrics were fine. Dad reckoned it was a flat battery that was causing the problems, as well as some pretty old fuel that wasn't changed when I bought the bike (which might explain the condition of the old spark plug). We checked the air filter and found it was clean, though one of the seals need replacing. I took the bike out for a ride, and then left to idle for several minutes outside (so the engine appears to be fine). Its nice to know that me and dad by fixing the problem ourselves we saved money and learnt something. I found it really enjoyable to work on my motorcycle, and I look forward to working on it and hopefully others in the future.

Ocean1

18th August 2012, 20:46

Update: YAY! Me and dad finally got it going! :wings:

What we ended up doing under Ixion's advice was we bought a can of 'start ya bastard', which we sprayed bit down the spark plug hole.

Cool, good work.

Two strokes don't like being left unused too long, couple of minutes run each week minimum eh? Keep an eye on the oil level too. Enjoy the ride.

Rhys

18th August 2012, 22:04

Well, done :Punk:

And by doing it your self you have a better idea how to fix it if your on some back road and it won't start

ducatilover

18th August 2012, 22:15

Great to hear! Want to come fix one of my bikes :bleh:

SS90

19th August 2012, 08:05

Great to hear! Want to come fix one of my bikes :bleh:

Glad this old bike is a runner again... Just one thing..."Dad and I......not Me and Dad"

Meandad was an Indian Cricket player.

I prefer grammar Burgermeister opposed to grammar Nazi if there is a preference.

Matariki

19th August 2012, 09:32

Glad this old bike is a runner again... Just one thing..."Dad and I......not Me and Dad"

Meandad was an Indian Cricket player.

I prefer grammar Burgermeister opposed to grammar Nazi if there is a preference.

I'll work on that (or maybe not). :shifty:

At the moment I'm trying to figure out what fathers day present I should get for my dad...

MSTRS

19th August 2012, 09:44

At the moment I'm trying to figure out what fathers day present I should get for my dad...

Get him a persuader. Then he can take you down to Langlands and show you how to persuade them to give your money back.
Just what the fuck did they do for $500 - when the bike was left with an old plug and old fuel.

FJRider

19th August 2012, 11:25

I'll work on that (or maybe not). :shifty:

At the moment I'm trying to figure out what fathers day present I should get for my dad...

Get yourself some good riding gear to keep your skin intact ... that will make him happy ...

And get a few spare plugs to keep in the bike's tool bag. If it doesn't want to start (as 2-strokes are likely to do) just put a fresh plug in ... most times ... this is all thats needed.
A piece of flattened wire to clean out a spark-plug is handy too.

F5 Dave

21st August 2012, 12:23

. . . At the moment I'm trying to figure out what fathers day present I should get for my dad...
Blokes like food. If my Daughter cooked me a nice Father's dad breakfast I'd be 'rapt. As she's 1&1/2 I might have to wait a bit.

Anyways I Read this yesterday as suggested Dad’s dad breakfast. Sounds like a lot of effort for breakfast, but if you did the potatoes the night before, or even to the just before putting the eggs in bit you could just do that so you don’t have to get up too early. . .cause no one likes that.

Cut potatoes into chunks & boil till just tender, drain & oil/Sprinkle with paprika/other spices. Stir-fry some finely sliced onion & some bacon cut into chunks. Combine everything with some cherry tomatoes (like a fritata but not really) & put in oven to grill till potatoes take some colour. Make a few big holes in the mixture & break some eggs in them. Bake for 15-30 min till egg whites cooked.

Made me hungry & i was eating lunch at the time (hence the crappy reading material at a cafe).