Online sign ups and the new MNZ website

[Dave-]

The yarns in the Red Flag thread got me wondering why clubs/MNZ use what I see as an obsolete method of signing up to events, Billy pointed out that MNZ is working on a new website, here's what I would like to see:

The technological advancements we've seen in our sport over the last 100 years have been huge, but why are we still sending a letter to attend an event? it takes like 3 days for it to get there! and I don't have a cheque book, so if NZ Post steal my letter then I'm out of cash, the online banking process is a sticky plaster, it's rigid and requires too much data entry/human error.

I was invloved with Motosoc (Canterbury University Motorsport Society), I built a website that allows members and non-members to sign up for events, then they stopped running motorcycle events so I left (it's a bit more complex than that, but here is not the place). Anyway you can check the website out at www.motosoc.co.nz it's a bit slow cause the ownership of the website is locked up in red tape so I couldn't convert to a faster host but I'm here to sumarise the features and discuss how I feel it could help MNZ/clubs.

Every single club would be given a page they could customise and run as their own page (this would provide support to smaller clubs), or link to from their exisiting page, every current MNZ license holder would have their existing log in from the MNZ page moved over, the website would allow them to select race numbers, would track their club and MNZ membership, they could renew and upgrade their license and club membership using a debit card/credit card (none of this internet banking bollocks) the process would be automated and would be more or less instant, perhaps a temporary license could be printed out until the hard copy arived in the mail, temporary lincenses could be used for 1 event say.

The website would also hold a digital copy of the license holders log book, the log book would be ammended at each meeting when the organisers scanned the QR code (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QR_code) on the license with an android or iphone app.

Clubs and MNZ could post up meetings which could be joined by license holders, day licenses could be generated also.

The meeting could show information, and even deal with indemnity, license holders would not be able to proceed with payment until they had checked a box and scrolled to the bottom of the indenity information.

License holders could stack up events, allowing them to pay for a whole series in 1 go, refunds for not attending could be handled very easily.

License holders could insert all their next of kin, health and safety info, helmet info and their machine information into the website, for each event a QR code could be generated which can be attached to the bike and/or rider that would be specific to the event, an iphone or android app can then scan the barcode and read about the bike and who the registered rider is, view their blood type, next of kin etc in case of the worst.

So you would have 1 QR code for your real license, 1 for a temporary license, which would be flagged as temporary and could only be used once (like a movie or concert ticket) and then you'd have a sticker relevant to the event, perhaps QR code holders could be made so that QR codes could be replaced in a sleeve or something, I dunno, discuss this. (rego/WOF holders?)

notes could be attached to the online profile, invisible to the public for scruitineering, crashes, trouble making etc

It would also tie in with kiwibiker, allowing a sub forum for the racer crowd where the changes in MNZ can be discussed in a proper manner following a stricter than ususal format for discussion, and this sub forum would stay on as a place to smack talk and spread rumors and troll suspension experts into flame wars.....

I'd like to see the club website service offered to clubs for free, providing they don't go too silly with spinning motorcycle gif images, lolcats and midi files playing metallica.

I'm half way through my Computer Engineering degree so know enough to know this is achieveable, but not enough to roll it out.

[SWERVE]

Interesting......... i am a tecnophobe.... but realise how it now runs our lives....this should spark up a decent debate.

[RobGassit]

Sounds bloody brilliant. Especially after a few riders had to buy day licence's because the post was late. 2 weeks late in our case, and $30 went up in smoke. Is there any possible way we can advance these issues without the MNZ folk feeling insulted, because they are valued and I'm sure doing their very best. Let technology do the hard yards I say.

[Dave-]

it could also tie in with mylaps too, wouldn't be impossible to load the license holders at the event into the timing computer with the android/iphone app which would assign their transponder number to the specific event.

previous meetings and the results could be stored on the website too.

theoretically we could make sign ins as simple as handing over your license, all the paper work, payment etc has already been handled.

even the paper work for the organisers could be reduced, they'd have an attendee list that would update as the licenses were handed over and scanned.

heck you could even go as far as storing your license on your phone, just present the QR code, the organiser runs his phone over the top of your phone, beep beep and you're signed in.

[RobGassit]

it could also tie in with mylaps too, wouldn't be impossible to load the license holders at the event into the timing computer with the android/iphone app which would assign their transponder number to the specific event.

previous meetings and the results could be stored on the website too.

theoretically we could make sign ins as simple as handing over your license, all the paper work, payment etc has already been handled.

even the paper work for the organisers could be reduced, they'd have an attendee list that would update as the licenses were handed over and scanned.

heck you could even go as far as storing your license on your phone, just present the QR code, the organiser runs his phone over the top of your phone, beep beep and you're signed in.

I haven't got a smart phone yet, so can I have a chip put in my neck, just like the dog?

[Dave-]

I haven't got a smart phone yet, so can I have a chip put in my neck, just like the dog?

yeah but sooner or later everyone will have a smartphone, until then I guess we can keep using paper....if we have to :rolleyes:

[scracha]

I'm half way through my Computer Engineering degree so know enough to know this is achieveable, but not enough to roll it out.
It's the programmer's 80-20 rule. Get a good idea, knock something up and normally it turns to shit.

Similar websites and technology have been around for years and off the top of my head I know 3 guys on this site who could knock up a working prototype in a short matter. However the idea and basic use-case scenarios is only about 10% of the effort. Hell, the coding is about 10% of the effort. Figuring out all the more obscure scenarios (the "what ifs") and testing out is a bigger job. It only needs to fail once for folks to not trust it and ditch it in disgust. Marketing the idea is the biggest job...you're dealing with a lot of peeps that think faxes are the height of high tech. The "we've always done it this way" mentality is a huge barrier too. Did I mention costs and on-going maintenance and future development?

[scott411]

catch up boys, i have entered the last couple of major Meetings i rode my off road bike in online, one a MNZ meeting and one a non MNZ event,

do not think its MNZ 's job to do the entries, they are only the insurance company that sets the rules, the clubs run the meetings,

[Grumph]

yeah but sooner or later everyone will have a smartphone, until then I guess we can keep using paper....if we have to :rolleyes:

Like hell everyone will have a smartphone....I see you're of the generation which does not just want to embrace technology - they want to shag it senseless and make it's use compulsory.

What you haven't yet realised young'un is that with the possible exception of yachting, this sport has the widest age range I know of in NZ. And the oldies who race classics etc pay just as much money, frequently more, for entries and services and expect the system to be easily understood.

Smartphones....fuck off....

[Kickaha]

Like hell everyone will have a smartphone....

Everyone who has a cellphone will as at some stage I reckon that will all you will be able to buy, personally I'm unlikey to have one until that day comes as I don't need to be able to do anything more than make a call or send a txt

If technology can speed up sign in and entry I'm all for it but it needs to be simple and easy to use and other options still avalable for the technophobes

[Fast Eddie]

I do my entry online already at Motorcycling Canterbury website..

there is an online form to fill out with very basic details (you already have a club membership and profile online so they know who you are) ur bike make model and number and if you need a transponder or not and thats it and which event u want to sign up for.

they have a calendar which shows all upcoming events and you can enter online for all of them if you like. payment is by direct debit and very easy, u type in their acc number and use the reference number they provide you. And thats it.

When it comes race day u simply turn up, put ur signature next to your name, grab your transponder and your away.

They also seem to have it all organized well and easy to rearrange because if u miss an event or something I saw them offer transfer of entry fee to the next event etc.. or credit for the next entry you wish to do in the future (could be wrong on this thought I saw them post it up somewhere those that missed KOL1 can transfer entry fee already paid to KOL2)

very quick, easy and painless I like how they do it.. I wouldn't want to be scanning stuff or doing anything much more complicated than that myself.

I was with motosoc (still am somehow, or at least I get their news letters n shit all the time) meh, I did a wild food with them and a couple of piss ups.. never saw any real ridering efforts there and never went out on a bike ride or track day with that club - they were up to F.A. lol...

and then they have car track days and there is a fuckn jacked up hilux or something out there and some other shitters...

meh

[Fast Eddie]

too much to read..

also you mentioned keeping track of you license online and paying by credit card?

you can already do that... thats how I do my license, log in online and pay by visa.. instant.. license arrived like 3 days later.

I have no problems with internet banking, takes about 30 seconds to punch in an account number and an amount and your away..

[McWild]

I think the biggest problem, as stated is that racing in NZ is an old man's sport. It needs a changing of the guard, but it won't get that because:

Old men decide the system. The system is too outdated for the incoming generation.

Incoming generation don't bother. System stays the same.

Racing dies out (further aided by another whole legion of problems that afflict the sport).

[RobGassit]

I think the biggest problem, as stated is that racing in NZ is an old man's sport. It needs a changing of the guard, but it won't get that because:

Old men decide the system. The system is too outdated for the incoming generation.

Incoming generation don't bother. System stays the same.

Racing dies out (further aided by another whole legion of problems that afflict the sport).

Please don't take this personally, but you have no phuckin idea what you're talking about.

[Kickaha]

but you have no phuckin idea what you're talking about.

Was it really that obvious?

I notice he didn't put forward why he thinks that or what his solutions are or who he approached to rectify this

[Billy]

Please don't take this personally, but you have no phuckin idea what you're talking about.


Was it really that obvious?

I notice he didn't put forward why he thinks that or what his solutions are or who he approached to rectify this

Hahahahaha! Yip and around about 20 mins before that was posted,I was talking with an Organiser about the plans him and I have for the introduction of a roadrace class for riders as young as 8,Problem is there are too many peeps out there with that negative attitude,Its just a matter of identifying the doers that are out there and motivating them.

The rest can think whatever they like.

[Dave-]

It's the programmer's 80-20 rule. Get a good idea, knock something up and normally it turns to shit.

Similar websites and technology have been around for years and off the top of my head I know 3 guys on this site who could knock up a working prototype in a short matter. However the idea and basic use-case scenarios is only about 10% of the effort. Hell, the coding is about 10% of the effort. Figuring out all the more obscure scenarios (the "what ifs") and testing out is a bigger job. It only needs to fail once for folks to not trust it and ditch it in disgust. Marketing the idea is the biggest job...you're dealing with a lot of peeps that think faxes are the height of high tech. The "we've always done it this way" mentality is a huge barrier too. Did I mention costs and on-going maintenance and future development?

Oh I know, Like I said I'm computer Eng (not computer science/software eng) my exception handling has been fairly limited as I work with embedded systems more often, but I rub shoulders with the cosc guys and after chatting to them about a recent mp3 player assignment they had I understand there are like n^2 exceptions for n number of inputs without checking for silly characters or null strings.

I think knocking the whole thing out all at once would be pretty ballsy, but keeping a maintainable approach from the start, then maybe a 5 or 7 year aim for completion? roll out 1 new feature each season, test and modify in the off season? see below for reasoning.

Also MNZ should be able to apply to pub charity for funding to help build the website, I know speedway NZ does, but I may be prying a bit much now.


Like hell everyone will have a smartphone....I see you're of the generation which does not just want to embrace technology - they want to shag it senseless and make it's use compulsory.

What you haven't yet realised young'un is that with the possible exception of yachting, this sport has the widest age range I know of in NZ. And the oldies who race classics etc pay just as much money, frequently more, for entries and services and expect the system to be easily understood.

Smartphones....fuck off....

I could say the same thing for your technology.

if your current cell phone is brand new right now, best it will last is 5 years, in 5 years time there will be only smart phones, samsung galaxy s3 will be $20 on trade me, and it will happily display a QR code, so stop being a stubborn grumpy old man.

Don't be afraid though, you don't have to use a smartphone, online sign ups would be easier than signing up to kiwibiker.


catch up boys, i have entered the last couple of major Meetings i rode my off road bike in online, one a MNZ meeting and one a non MNZ event,

do not think its MNZ 's job to do the entries, they are only the insurance company that sets the rules, the clubs run the meetings,

No each club would do their own sign ups, but it would be all wrapped up into 1 nice website.


I do my entry online already at Motorcycling Canterbury website..

there is an online form to fill out with very basic details (you already have a club membership and profile online so they know who you are) ur bike make model and number and if you need a transponder or not and thats it and which event u want to sign up for.

they have a calendar which shows all upcoming events and you can enter online for all of them if you like. payment is by direct debit and very easy, u type in their acc number and use the reference number they provide you. And thats it.

When it comes race day u simply turn up, put ur signature next to your name, grab your transponder and your away.

They also seem to have it all organized well and easy to rearrange because if u miss an event or something I saw them offer transfer of entry fee to the next event etc.. or credit for the next entry you wish to do in the future (could be wrong on this thought I saw them post it up somewhere those that missed KOL1 can transfer entry fee already paid to KOL2)

very quick, easy and painless I like how they do it.. I wouldn't want to be scanning stuff or doing anything much more complicated than that myself.

I was with motosoc (still am somehow, or at least I get their news letters n shit all the time) meh, I did a wild food with them and a couple of piss ups.. never saw any real ridering efforts there and never went out on a bike ride or track day with that club - they were up to F.A. lol...

and then they have car track days and there is a fuckn jacked up hilux or something out there and some other shitters...

meh

Yeah I know about MCI's system, 20 seconds is easy enough for you, but at the other end there's a person who has to manually log in to the banking account, cross check payments against names and license numbers, then chase up if someone got it wrong (you have no idea how hard this can be) even with a script that runs over a csv file this can take a few hours if lots of people sign up and then how long to try and track down who has and hasn't paid the right amounts?

I've delt with it in motosoc, it was part of the reason I built the sign ups site for them, I wanted to try streamline the whole track day process for the organiser, right down to a calendar that points out when certain aspects of organising a track day needed to be completed by (booking photographer, coffee, sending the health and safety plan to CCC, booking marshals etc etc etc etc) the idea too was when the organiser finished their degree the whole track day process would be able to be passed on very easily.


too much to read..

also you mentioned keeping track of you license online and paying by credit card?

you can already do that... thats how I do my license, log in online and pay by visa.. instant.. license arrived like 3 days later.

I have no problems with internet banking, takes about 30 seconds to punch in an account number and an amount and your away..

I am aware that there are already some systems in place, I'm just trying to get a standard set soon so that in 10 years time we don't have to deal with 20 different systems each running some legacy software when someone says "why didn't we do this sooner?!?!"

Don't even get me started on motosoc [too late], we have a 4 garage and a huge courtyard/parking area at my flat, but we still have to move at least 2 vehicles to get 1 out, fucks me right off, I need to get a warrant and rego for my van, but first I have to get an e30 without front wheels out of the way.

Plus there was the tools who would attend and think it's cool to brag about how they cant read as they sign the health and safety indemnity form.

and then there's the guy who showed up and did wheelies in the pits (not even going on the race track) he almost crashed into 3 different sets of people (one of which was a small girl - who shouldn't be in pits I know.....but you see what we're dealing with here) when asked not to do wheelies, he insulted us and left, still doing wheelies.

shitty wheelies too.


I think the biggest problem, as stated is that racing in NZ is an old man's sport. It needs a changing of the guard, but it won't get that because:

Old men decide the system. The system is too outdated for the incoming generation.

Incoming generation don't bother. System stays the same.

Racing dies out (further aided by another whole legion of problems that afflict the sport).

Oh Hi McWild, you should tell everyone here in the race section what your thoughts are on the topic of wheelies in pits.....something about how motosoc should encourage it? I think you had a justification, my mind can't even process what that might have been....


Hahahahaha! Yip and around about 20 mins before that was posted,I was talking with an Organiser about the plans him and I have for the introduction of a roadrace class for riders as young as 8,Problem is there are too many peeps out there with that negative attitude,Its just a matter of identifying the doers that are out there and motivating them.

The rest can think whatever they like.

Slightly off topic but last Friday, my computer eng lecturer was telling me about an 8 year old kid who knocked out the solution to the assignment I'm working on right now in 1 afternoon.

what if we aimed to have the MNZ site linked in to support club sites first, then built on it?

[Fast Eddie]

I am aware that there are already some systems in place, I'm just trying to get a standard set soon so that in 10 years time we don't have to deal with 20 different systems each running some legacy software when someone says "why didn't we do this sooner?!?!"

Don't even get me started on motosoc [too late],
and then there's the guy who showed up and did wheelies in the pits (not even going on the race track) he almost crashed into 3 different sets of people (one of which was a small girl - who shouldn't be in pits I know.....but you see what we're dealing with here) when asked not to do wheelies, he insulted us and left, still doing wheelies.

shitty wheelies too.



Yea, im all for improvements, I like being able to do everything online and with visa or direct debit, doesnt really bother me which.

haha sounds great, I guess the year I was at canty they had old Bunny and co running things they were more about piss ups and having a good time, It was actually through bunny that I found out about sidecar racing and a have a go day thing which i went along to and had my first go.. then bought a sidecar haha.
sounds like its really gone to the dogs now though.. once i started racing i lost interest in road based clubs n shit anyway.

just race with the motorcycling canterbury club.

[scracha]

what if we aimed to have the MNZ site linked in to support club sites first, then built on it?

Am actually working on a simlar (booking/calendar/txt alerts/confirmation/disclaimers) site for another sport at this very moment. Am taking the whole risk and knocking up a working prototype and doing basic testing prior to testing it with a few sports officials/participants before taking it to the official sports body concerned. That way they can see the system in action and the pros and cons. Then we'll try and sell it to them lol.

If you have the time and "cahunas" then my suggestion would be for you to adopt a similar approach.

[wharfy]

I think the biggest problem, as stated is that racing in NZ is an old man's sport. It needs a changing of the guard, but it won't get that because:

Old men decide the system. The system is too outdated for the incoming generation.

Incoming generation don't bother. System stays the same.

Racing dies out (further aided by another whole legion of problems that afflict the sport).

I guess you don't go to many race meetings then ? Plenty of young people racing,
If you had an MNZ license you would know you can renew it online, you can enter the Vic Club race meetings online (I believe you have to actually sign a physical disclaimer form at least once), and from replies on this thread other clubs have online entry as well.

If you want to change the system join a club, get on the committee (most clubs are hanging out for new people to get involved) I think you will find that the system HAS been evolving (over about a hundred years) and most of the rules,regulations and procedures have been developed from experience (some of it bitter).

In my experience most of the problems with Licenses and race entry is because racers can't get their shit together. Licenses expire every year (at about the same time), most meetings have several months notice !!
If it is to hard get your mum to do it for you.

[wharfy]

it could also tie in with mylaps too, wouldn't be impossible to load the license holders at the event into the timing computer with the android/iphone app which would assign their transponder number to the specific event.

previous meetings and the results could be stored on the website too.

theoretically we could make sign ins as simple as handing over your license, all the paper work, payment etc has already been handled.

even the paper work for the organisers could be reduced, they'd have an attendee list that would update as the licenses were handed over and scanned.

heck you could even go as far as storing your license on your phone, just present the QR code, the organiser runs his phone over the top of your phone, beep beep and you're signed in.

Check out the Vic Club site. Online entry, results from mylaps. At sign on to Vic Club events, your MNZ license and club membership card is "scanned" by an eyeball, you are given a transponder (if you don't have one of your own) and a copy of the program. All the paperwork is already done !

It is very simple and smooth - You are required to enter in advance (7 days) you can get a one event license at the track (but you must have entered prior). There is almost always a queue because racers spend the first hour or so at the track talking shit with each other dicking around with their bike and drinking coffee in the faint hope it will fix their hangover. :)

If you enter and for some reason can't race you will get a refund of the entry fee (see MNZ rule for details) so prior entry is a "no risk" deal

If you can't get your shit together by a week before the event you probably need a team manager. :)

[wharfy]

Sounds bloody brilliant. Especially after a few riders had to buy day licence's because the post was late. 2 weeks late in our case, and $30 went up in smoke. Is there any possible way we can advance these issues without the MNZ folk feeling insulted, because they are valued and I'm sure doing their very best. Let technology do the hard yards I say.
Did you contact MNZ when your license didn't show up after the first week ?

[jellywrestler]

Everyone who has a cellphone will as at some stage I reckon that will all you will be able to buy, personally I'm unlikey to have one until that day comes as I don't need to be able to do anything more than make a call or send a txt

not everyones the same, i have no idea how to send a text but got a smartphone this week for other reasons.

[Dave-]

Check out the Vic Club site. Online entry, results from mylaps. At sign on to Vic Club events, your MNZ license and club membership card is "scanned" by an eyeball, you are given a transponder (if you don't have one of your own) and a copy of the program. All the paperwork is already done !

It is very simple and smooth - You are required to enter in advance (7 days) you can get a one event license at the track (but you must have entered prior). There is almost always a queue because racers spend the first hour or so at the track talking shit with each other dicking around with their bike and drinking coffee in the faint hope it will fix their hangover. :)

If you enter and for some reason can't race you will get a refund of the entry fee (see MNZ rule for details) so prior entry is a "no risk" deal

If you can't get your shit together by a week before the event you probably need a team manager. :)

If you read my post above you'll see I have addressed this.

[RobGassit]

Did you contact MNZ when your license didn't show up after the first week ?

Yes repeatedly and was promised it was no problem getting them to us prior to the meeting. They arrived the Monday after. We aren't dwelling on it, but it happened never the less. They are obviously busier than one armed paper hangers and they are always lovely to deal with.Shit happens.

[MarkW]

The concept should work - and for Road Race circuits cellular coverage shouldn't be a problem; and power supplies in waterproof buildings are available. But MNZ's and their related Club's activities cover far more than Road Racing. Many trials, cross country, motocross, enduro events and trail rides occur in the fantastic parts of NZ that have no or very poor cellular coverage, the nearest phone line may be a ways away and power supplies non existent. Using a flash barcode scanner or something west of the black stump to verify the authenticity of 15 trials riders bikes, helmets, licences etc may be a little expensive if you first have to bring in the power supplies and the telephone line.

Once away from the main population centres and State Highway 1 there are many parts of NZ with very poor infrastructure.

Manual systems can be the only things that work sometimes.

So, an automated system can be developed and used but it may not be possible to get 100% use for many years.

I use mobile (cellular) broadband where I "live, work and play" and it works most of the time. The expected date for the flash update for me to ultrafast (and reliable?) cellular communications - 2017.

[Dave-]

The concept should work - and for Road Race circuits cellular coverage shouldn't be a problem; and power supplies in waterproof buildings are available. But MNZ's and their related Club's activities cover far more than Road Racing. Many trials, cross country, motocross, enduro events and trail rides occur in the fantastic parts of NZ that have no or very poor cellular coverage, the nearest phone line may be a ways away and power supplies non existent. Using a flash barcode scanner or something west of the black stump to verify the authenticity of 15 trials riders bikes, helmets, licences etc may be a little expensive if you first have to bring in the power supplies and the telephone line.

Once away from the main population centres and State Highway 1 there are many parts of NZ with very poor infrastructure.

Manual systems can be the only things that work sometimes.

So, an automated system can be developed and used but it may not be possible to get 100% use for many years.

I use mobile (cellular) broadband where I "live, work and play" and it works most of the time. The expected date for the flash update for me to ultrafast (and reliable?) cellular communications - 2017.

I dont believe you need a powersupply for a smart phone, batteries are getting better and better, minor problem.

Where cell coverage is an issue the riders catelogue can be downloaded to the phone as a csv file which cqn be shared amongst paired phones (but i should hardly imagine 15 riders would require more than 1 device)

Those back county races can take a physical license.

[Skunk]

Vic Club's system feeds a Database that records payments, entries, memberships etc and allows the members to update the information we hold.
Entry confirmation on race day (will be) by RFID on the membership card. The only hold up on this is the RFID supplier stopped supplying! Now we're searching for another.
We have bugs in the system (no, not security - more to do with things people want to do that we didn't think of) so we are updating the background all the time. I see this as a multi-year process.
We have a DB expert on the committee but really need a more skilled coder - I just take too long.

We can't use any info MNZ holds at present.