Bitcoin?

[SMOKEU]

Anyone else here mine them?

[Drew]

I am not familiar with the word, or mining practices involved in it's discovery.

[sil3nt]

Doesn't it take a stupidly long time to mine a useful amount?

I actually don't understand how it all works. Have tried to read up on it a few times still don't get it.

[JimO]

why did i think that said bacon

[SMOKEU]

Doesn't it take a stupidly long time to mine a useful amount?

I actually don't understand how it all works. Have tried to read up on it a few times still don't get it.

If you mine for a pool with a semi decent AMD GPU like a 5850 or better then it can be worth it.

It's just a peer to peer currency, and all the "work" that your GPU does is used for maintaining the block chain and verifying the transactions of the other miners, so BTC can't be fraudulently generated. I only just got back into it after about a 1 year hiatus due to the unfavourable difficulty/$ ratio. Have a look here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin)

[mashman]

Tin foil hats at the ready (http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/technology/homeland-security-seizes-funds-at-main-bitcoin-exchange/2013/05/15/25659020-bd1e-11e2-b537-ab47f0325f7c_story.html)

[Scuba_Steve]

Tin foil hats at the ready (http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/technology/homeland-security-seizes-funds-at-main-bitcoin-exchange/2013/05/15/25659020-bd1e-11e2-b537-ab47f0325f7c_story.html)

Seems the US don't like cash they can't control

[mashman]

Seems the US don't like cash they can't control

Aye... especially when there's no money to be made in the shares. Wonder how many of the sitting govt have shares in Google.

[avgas]

Bump.

So lets talk ASIC - anyone tried? What have you used? Does this mean FPGA mining is dead?

[SMOKEU]

Bump.

So lets talk ASIC - anyone tried? What have you used? Does this mean FPGA mining is dead?

FPGA is more or less dead. I haven't tried ASIC mining, for a very good reason. The waiting times to receive the ASIC miners are generally measured in months, so by the time you receive the miner, it's worth far less than what you paid for it due to the block difficulty increases. I haven't wanted to take the risk of buying secondhand hardware.

[avgas]

FPGA is more or less dead. I haven't tried ASIC mining, for a very good reason. The waiting times to receive the ASIC miners are generally measured in months, so by the time you receive the miner, it's worth far less than what you paid for it due to the block difficulty increases. I haven't wanted to take the risk of buying secondhand hardware.
So if I say had the ability to buy an ASIC and get it near immediately it would be worth it, but otherwise nope?
That is a shame - but does make it clearer that if I want to buy one to play with its worth watching the lead-times. Thanks.

Yeah I noticed some good deals on trademe recently. Better than I can get from Amazon.

[SMOKEU]

So if I say had the ability to buy an ASIC and get it near immediately it would be worth it, but otherwise nope?
That is a shame - but does make it clearer that if I want to buy one to play with its worth watching the lead-times. Thanks.

Yeah I noticed some good deals on trademe recently. Better than I can get from Amazon.

Not all ASIC miners will ever be able to make a profit if the block difficulty keeps increasing, so do your calculations very, very carefully if you plan on making your investment back, let alone any profit. Work out the hash rate of the miner, current block difficulty level, electricity costs, and how many BTC it can mine each day at current difficulty levels, and the next estimated difficulty, and the delivery time.

A good example was Butterfly Labs, they kept on taking people's money, then delaying delivery again, and again, and again. If you were lucky and got your miner quickly, you could make a profit for a few weeks, even a few months if you were lucky. If you didn't get your miner quickly, you'd end up with something that you'll likely never make any money off. If buying any miner, make sure that the seller has it in stock and can guarantee very prompt delivery.

[avgas]

Talked to a guy today about it. He found a chinese supplier that has replaced his rig. He said he pity's people who GPU mine because the new ASIC's are 10 times faster than the average GPU @ half the cost. But he also said like you if you can't get it within 2 months it is a waste of time as you have lost half your prime production. He has delivery within 2 weeks, but he thinks in about 6 months it won't be worth mining as that 2 weeks will be his prime production. As it stands he makes about 500% return in a year. But then the gear is near worthless (another 100% or less per year).

He also mentioned that China and Taiwan have rigs that destroy most of the US ones. Whole, water-cooled, 40ft shipping containers.

Meh I guess I can always repurpose an FPGA - but what the F do you do with a ASIC special for bitcoins but to slow to process? Run it on solar?

[Akzle]

what the fuck are you on about?? i've done a brief search on this shit, and still care very little. so. summarise it in a fucking paragraph.

[avgas]

(its more complicated than this - but this makes it sound magical)
Bitcoin = Independent currency free from corporation and government made by a computer finding out calculated cryptic message from a block of #####

Digital Drills
GPU = Computer graphics card chip, good at doing highspeed calculations, thus good at finding the hashes, mining rigs (like a drilling rig for gold, but this one is digital).
FPGA = Funny little chip you can program to do anything really fast, but only does basic tasks. Similar to a microprocessor, but can do multiple tasks at the same time. Running joke is that the F stands for Female (it doesn't). A little expensive. Was good for bitcoin mining due to the fact it was fast at doing lots of stuff at the same time with little power.
ASIC = Like an FPGA, but hardwired to only do one set of tasks. Cheap to make, but useless if you want to use it for something else later.

More "Hashes" or "Hash rate" the better the digital drill. Currently a cheap USB powered ASIC block miner costs about $20-$50 with the same Hash Rate of the average graphics card (GPU). Being USB you can have a hundred of these running of the PC making a powerful "rig". But as the "cheap gold" is made in the "topsoil".......the drills get more powerful later on. So something that was good drill 2 years ago - now is like mining with a teaspoon.
(keep in mind that all these things a) cost money and b) consume money in the way of power..........so unless the price keeps going up, you're fucked. Just like gold mining)

[avgas]

So I get my 1.6Gh/s AntMiner today......hopefully. Which should return its value in about 3 months (including the cost of power).
But at-least now I have found a use for a crappy netbook I couldn't bear to throw out.

I could mine on my new laptop.........but rather keep it clean......and that tiny USB miner can do twice what the graphics card can do.

Not doing this to make money - just for shits and giggles......and global financial destability. Can see it being a handy "second currency" when NZD or USD looks a bit dodgy. So need to support it.

[Grashopper]

So I get my 1.6Gh/s AntMiner today......hopefully. Which should return its value in about 3 months (including the cost of power).
But at-least now I have found a use for a crappy netbook I couldn't bear to throw out.


When you say it should return its value in 3 months, does that mean when it's running 24/7? Sounds like it could be worth looking into a solar charger. (Also good when the world ends and you need to charge up your gadgets. :yes:)


I could mine on my new laptop.........but rather keep it clean......and that tiny USB miner can do twice what the graphics card can do.
What do you mean with "keep it clean"? Is that miner going to install some unwanted stuff like Adware or so? Sorry if that is a stupid question. I'm pretty new at this.


Not doing this to make money - just for shits and giggles......and global financial destability. Can see it being a handy "second currency" when NZD or USD looks a bit dodgy. So need to support it.
It kind of does sound like fun. Will have a bit more of a read later.

Let us know how it's going.

[avgas]

When you say it should return its value in 3 months, does that mean when it's running 24/7? Sounds like it could be worth looking into a solar charger. (Also good when the world ends and you need to charge up your gadgets. :yes:)


What do you mean with "keep it clean"? Is that miner going to install some unwanted stuff like Adware or so? Sorry if that is a stupid question. I'm pretty new at this.


It kind of does sound like fun. Will have a bit more of a read later.

Let us know how it's going.
Yeah will keep an eye out for one. The 3 month repayment period is cost of miner ($60) + power of miner (2.5w) + power of netbook (est 50w....but is probably less on average as its not doing anything except that and be a remote play pc for test code).

Last time I did the calc it was repayment including all costs in 3 months.......but I think the hashrate went up today so its probably double that now lol.
But if I take the power of the netbook out of the equation - repayment in about half that time.
Works out the miner makes about US$1 every 3 days on average, after power cost, for a whole year. (starts high gets low).

So yeah not a get rich quick scheme - but interesting toy for $50. If you were going to go into it to make money I would recommend 500+ M/H/s per watt (I am @ 640) and $20/GH/s or lower for hardware (I'm at $34 if I don't overclock) to make money. Keep in mind if they don't have stock.......your not going to make a decent profit.

So something like this is profitable if you can get it installed and powered up in less than a week.
https://products.butterflylabs.com/homepage/50-gh-s-bitcoin-miner.html
but its not exactly the most efficient way to spend your money.

Where as.....
https://products.butterflylabs.com/25-gh-s-bitcoin-miner.html this unit would get you too little gain to make it worth while.

[SMOKEU]

So I get my 1.6Gh/s AntMiner today......hopefully. Which should return its value in about 3 months (including the cost of power).


I do hope those calculations are right, but 1.6Gh/s will have an awfully low return with the high block difficulty. What pool are you mining with?

[avgas]

I do hope those calculations are right, but 1.6Gh/s will have an awfully low return with the high block difficulty. What pool are you mining with?
Nope they were out - revised return (including power) is 9 months. If I overclock (2.2) - 5-7 months. (Based on the calculation of what its hashing right now).
If I get a second - return cuts even at 6 months. But I won't bother. This is just an exercise in playing with electronic currency rather than mining. Name of the game is cut even within a year of playing round.

Power wise I am doing better than most. In fact the miner + power cost is only $80 / year. But took fuck loads of dicking around to find miner software to work with it.

Right now signed up with bitminter as I was going to use their software (but it didn't detect the ASIC erupter). Currently using CGminer. In the past I used slush's pool which is why I thought I would try someone different. But if this pool isn't working for me I will revise this at first auto-payout (BTC 0.01).

I see there are 5Ghps USB erupters in China. Might consider one of them if they are cheap enough. Not bothering with the 2.4Ghps ones........works out more expensive per hash than mine antminer.

Those 600Ghps cards look interesting......but I don't have a PC anymore and don't want to build a rig.

[avgas]

keep in mind this miner is drawing a whopping 2.5w (MAX).........cellphone charger type power ;)
and I even get a flashing LED when it hashes lol

[avgas]

Well it has been pretty consistent in running. I have looked at running it at an overclocked speed - but as I am trying to minimise the power consumption this is not viable as they recommend that you have a fan on it (and I am out of USB ports).
Gives me 1.55-1.6 Ghps about 90% of the time........never dropping below 1.4Ghps. Also my power consumption has been less than I expected (about 25w all up including netbook).
Windows Update has cost me more power than the mining operation thus far.

Total reward however is just as pathetic.....
Bitcoins 0.00005637
Namecoins 0.00011274

But I was expecting that. So the name of the game is to keep this running so long as I can keep power consumption under $1.50 month. Which by my calcs is about 16 months. Of course if I don't consider the power of the netbook - this figure turns into about 5-10 years.

[pzkpfw]

How come the people making mining hardware don't just use the hardware to mine bitcoins themselves?

[avgas]

How come the people making mining hardware don't just use the hardware to mine bitcoins themselves?
Seen Atlas Copco or CAT operate their own gold mines?
But most manufacturers do have their own "test" operations which mine. But money for production has to come from somewhere.

Funny thing is someone has the antminer I am using for sale on trademe and claiming $0.70 a day.....

http://www.trademe.co.nz/computers/other/auction-690346944.htm

but he is charging twice what I am paid.

I just worked out - with my unit running as it is, it earns about $0.8 a day. As I have slightly overclocked it to 1.8-2 GH/s. So repayment period should be back to 3 months for hardware and 4 months for hardware+power.

[pzkpfw]

Today on Stuff:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/digital-living/30017696/hundreds-of-millions-in-bitcoins-disappears


Hundreds of millions of dollars have gone missing as one of the world's largest virtual currency exchanges has seemingly disappeared.

[mashman]

Australian police raid Sydney home of reported bitcoin creator (https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/exclusive-australian-police-raid-sydney-035420970.html)... bye bye bitcoin?

[Tazz]

Fuckin banks.

[JimO]

where has smoku gone?