Made in China

[Katman]

It's frightening that a country rightly considered a superpower is basing it's economy on flooding the international market with cheap crap directly copied from reputable brands, and even worse, producing counterfeit products and trying to pass them off as genuine articles.

Why the fuck are we kowtowing to the slimy pricks?

[HenryDorsetCase]

It's frightening that a country rightly considered a superpower is basing it's economy on flooding the international market with cheap crap directly copied from reputable brands, and even worse, producing counterfeit products and trying to pass them off as genuine articles.

Why the fuck are we kowtowing to the slimy pricks?

given they own all our debt, y'all better bend your knee to your Chinese overlords, serf.

[bogan]

Cos some arseholes think charging 60 bucks for a rod end that costs 6 bucks from china is a valid business model. It's a global marketplace, get better marketeers if you can't compete on prices.

[Katman]

Cos some arseholes think charging 60 bucks for a rod end that costs 6 bucks from china is a valid business model. It's a global marketplace, get better marketeers if you can't compete on prices.

So you're blinded solely by a cheap price?

That's worrying.

[bogan]

So you're blinded solely on cheap price?

That's worrying.

Why do you think the price was the only thing I compared? I judged the products to be of equal usefulnesses to my project, and one was 10% the price, bit of a no-brainer really.

[mashman]

Say it ain't so. Legitimate business people trying to maximise their profit by using inferior quality products irrespective of safety concerns... nooooo, it'll never catch on and legitimate business people wouldn't lie about the quality of their products would they? waaaaa ha ha ha haaaaaaa... it ain't really surprising. Fortunately the govt wouldn't fall for that kinda shit... the trains in Welly are great when they're working.

[Katman]

Why do you think the price was the only thing I compared? I judged the products to be of equal usefulnesses to my project, and one was 10% the price, bit of a no-brainer really.

You were the one who mentioned the word 'price'.

So if you had the choice between a known quality brand at $60 and a crap quality brand at $10, which would you choose?

[Howie]

Say it ain't so. Legitimate business people trying to maximise their profit by using inferior quality products irrespective of safety concerns... nooooo, it'll never catch on and legitimate business people wouldn't lie about the quality of their products would they? waaaaa ha ha ha haaaaaaa... it ain't really surprising. Fortunately the govt wouldn't fall for that kinda shit... the trains in Welly are great when they're working.

But the Trains in Wellington be Korean, The new Mainline Locomotives be Chinese.

[bogan]

You were the one who mentioned the word 'price'.

So if you had the choice between a known quality brand at $60 and a crap quality brand at $10, which would you choose?

Because price was the only product difference, when used in my application anyway, the cast surface finish wasn't as nice on the chinese one, but they are hidden.

Depends on the product and application, and branding difference, and price difference. I think you'll find a good number of us do actually do some brand research.

I guess the question us consumers ask, is how can chinese sell product for 1/6th the price we can buy locally?

[Subike]

Look at the origional brand name, and like it, price $6500
look at the chineese copy and think, that will do , price $4160
Only has to last a year....

thrash the shit out of it for six months. 7000k's, and only the horn has fallen off........ fuck thats $4100 well spent,

will still get at least $2000 trade in from the dealer as promised..........dang less than the deprecation on the Brand name one for the same time?????

[Katman]

I guess the question us consumers ask, is how can chinese sell product for 1/6th the price we can buy locally?

Because the quality is shit.

[Katman]

And once again, just to clarify........

I'm not talking about foreign companies who get their product made in China if it meets their quality control standards.

I'm talking about Chinese companies producing products that have zero quality control.

[bogan]

Because the quality is shit.

1) Quality is dependent on the purpose.
2) Its not actually that bad, they buy cheap raw materials, and don't do too much quality control, but in many cases the end result is much the same.

And I call bullshit on cheap materials and no QC leading to 1/6th the sales price. Their main advantage is selling direct to consumers from the manufacturers, or if not direct, through a low margin distributor. Unlike here when the final prices is what, 2x? 3x? 5x? the price it was bought from the manufacturer.

[FJRider]

I guess the question us consumers ask, is how can chinese sell product for 1/6th the price we can buy locally?

But we don't ask ... big business here in good ole NZ buy chinese. They have contracts ... they have assurances from the suppliers ... what could go wrong ... ???

Oh wait ... :crazy:

[Katman]

Did nobody see the Close Up programme?

A whole batch of Chinese made aluminium ladders destined for Sweden, which were rejected by Sweden because they were made with wafer thin metal and clearly didn't carry the load that the Chinese claimed they would, ended up being imported into New Zealand.

Have we become so focused on 'cheap' that 'quality' doesn't even enter the equation these days?

[ducatilover]

You were the one who mentioned the word 'price'.

So if you had the choice between a known quality brand at $60 and a crap quality brand at $10, which would you choose?


And once again, just to clarify........

I'm not talking about foreign companies who get their product made in China if it meets their quality control standards.

I'm talking about Chinese companies producing products that have zero quality control.

I was going to point out I got lots of OEM Suzuki parts at such a fraction of the Suzuki NZ prices that it's vomit inducing. But, that's neither here nor there as they're OEM.

Some Chinese products are low quality, some aren't.
China makes many high quality products.
China also makes many low quality products.
China also makes many average quality products.
;)

[Howie]

You were the one who mentioned the word 'price'.

So if you had the choice between a known quality brand at $60 and a crap quality brand at $10, which would you choose?

One would have to follow the example of our Government, and Big corporations and buy on initial price only, not the full life price, other wise Locomotives and Wagons would be being built in NZ.

[Katman]

1) Quality is dependent on the purpose.


That's fine if you're buying a hairbrush.

What if you're buying a set of wheel bearings for your bike?

[Katman]

China makes many high quality products.


I agree. China has the resources and the technology to produce the best product in the world.

But if you want cheap - they can do that too.

Why have we become so focused on cheap?

[bogan]

That's fine if you're buying a hairbrush.

What if you're buying a set of wheel bearings for your bike?

I'd get the size codes, then go to the good bastards at www.bearingandengineering.co.nz They have been able to get the right balance of service/prices to make me want to pay a little more for a local company.

[Howie]

I agree. China has the resources and the technology to produce the best product in the world.

But if you want cheap - they can do that too.

Why have we become so focused on cheap?

Answer to that is easy. Our low wage economy brought about by the labour reforms of the early nineties. It means price rules over quality for most in the NZ.

[ducatilover]

Why have we become so focused on cheap?

This itself is the issue.
With the average NZ wage and the price of the cheap products, who can blame us really? Human nature an' all that.
We want it all, we want it now.
Then again, I have LED indicators, dash lights and tail light on my 600, all from China/HK/Thailand/Taiwan or wherever. They're all excellent products, they were all very cheap.
You'd pay $60-80NZ for my tail light here, I had it landed for under $20.
Is that wrong of me to buy the same product at less than 1/4 of the price?


I know what you mean with poo quality stuff, personally I'm over the junk stuff. Often buying the cheapest and nastiest is a false economy.

[bogan]

I don't think it so much wage related. There's just a hell of a lot of nice things around now, and as consumers we want it all, only the rich will ever be able to afford top dollar product across the lot. Imo, product turnover is too high, how many people get a new phone/computer/car every year? Doesn't really encourage manufacturers to make long lasting products.

[300weatherby]

Shitloads of stuff like rearsets, clip ons, oem copy wheels ect available made in China, stuff currently for sale on trademe right now
Imagine: top of the staight at Ruapuna, top gear and pushing the limiter, then going to the brakes hard, now your made in China clip on breaks off............
Mabe 4th gear flat out going into pothole, a touch on the brakes and down 1, and your made in China oem copy front wheel flys to pieces.....

Wake up people, these are the same people that happily put melamine in baby formula, the chinese are bereft of morality as we understand it, on so many levels, study the history going back over the last 2000 years.

I refuse to shop at the Warehouse because China and India are their number 1 suppliers, and this is killing manufacturing in NZ- local manufacturing means jobs, taxes, a productive local economy. We have too many deadbeat crims and wasters on the dole, while I go to work, simply because there is fuck all manufacturing left to make jobs available.

The same people flood our country with P. look at the misery that causes.

Made in China? Fuck off!!!. Rather go without.

[Oblivion]

Another thing that I find is that for the longest time, price has been associated with the quality of the product. With a counterfeit market, people are gaining access to cheaper goods that fit the same purpose as the more expensive parts. Sometimes they are of the quality, sometimes they are of worse quality.

As its always been, its about getting the biggest bang for your $. If you can get away with a cheap product, you get away with it. If it turns turtle, there's always the quality namebrand that you can turn back to.

[ducatilover]

I'd get the size codes, then go to the good bastards at www.bearingandengineering.co.nz (http://www.bearingandengineering.co.nz) They have been able to get the right balance of service/prices to make me want to pay a little more for a local company.
Agree with this, those guys are f*cking great. :2thumbsup

Shitloads of stuff like rearsets, clip ons, oem copy wheels ect available made in China, stuff currently for sale on trademe right now
Imagine: top of the staight at Ruapuna, top gear and pushing the limiter, then going to the brakes hard, now your made in China clip on breaks off............
Mabe 4th gear flat out going into pothole, a touch on the brakes and down 1, and your made in China oem copy front wheel flys to pieces.....

Wake up people, these are the same people that happily put melamine in baby formula, the chinese are bereft of morality as we understand it, on so many levels, study the history going back over the last 2000 years.

I refuse to shop at the Warehouse because China and India are their number 1 suppliers, and this is killing manufacturing in NZ- local manufacturing means jobs, taxes, a productive local economy. We have too many deadbeat crims and wasters on the dole, while I go to work, simply because there is fuck all manufacturing left to make jobs available.

The same people flood our country with P. look at the misery that causes.

Made in China? Fuck off!!!. Rather go without. You think everything that comes out of China sucks? Should the issue not be, "cheap rip off parts suck". It's not limited to China...


I don't think it so much wage related. There's just a hell of a lot of nice things around now, and as consumers we want it all, only the rich will ever be able to afford top dollar product across the lot. Imo, product turnover is too high, how many people get a new phone/computer/car every year? Doesn't really encourage manufacturers to make long lasting products.

Agree with this too.
I wouldn't buy a new phone that often! Or a PC, fuck Nokia stuff doesn't break, had the same Nokia since '09 and it was a hand me down from a brother, he got it in '07 and it's till working fine (just went silly today and got an N85 as an update, need moar phone bling)

[Oblivion]

I wouldn't buy a new phone that often! Or a PC, fuck Nokia stuff doesn't break, had the same Nokia since '09 and it was a hand me down from a brother, he got it in '07 and it's till working fine (just went silly today and got an N85 as an update, need moar phone bling)

Why stop there? Get a Nokia Lumia 900, and you can say goodbye to ever having to need a hammer again!!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jf1fRu9YgfE

[darkwolf]

I can see the sense in some cases. Though I'm sure over the longer term you could argue it's a self defeating policy, check out my reasoning below:

Say I want a battery drill, but I only use it to put picture hooks in the wall 2 or 3 times a year or fix the pales on my fence this one time. I can buy a cheap knock off drill with no quality control for $50 or I can pick up a $200 RyoDecker. (assuming that by combining two well known reputable brands I create a similarly reputable but fictional brand for the sake of continuing this explanation whilst avoiding unwanted legal attention from themselves or their agents).

In either case I can get the job done in roughly the same time. But based on an average wage less tax it would take only 3 hours work to earn money for the cheap drill vs 12 hours for the RyoDecker. Now I can see that the quality of the knock off is less than the RyoDecker (which is often Chinese made in any event). However, even if it takes an hour to replace a broken cheap drill under warranty, I'd need to get 9 drills in a row that don't work in order for it to be better for me to get the more expensive drill. I'd rather apply the 9 hours of my life that I could hypothetically save to something else like riding to the West Coast, grabbing a nice cup of coffee and coming back home.

However, if I was to replace the rear shock on my 03 ZX6R (because from the factory it's not fantastic) and I was to compare an Öh-Tech (another fictional reputable brand created for the sake of this explanation) rear shock to a cheap Chinese knockoff where I could see or determine that the quality of the Öh-Tech was far superior than the knockoff to the point where the knockoff would jeopardise my ride (fun, comfort or safety) then that would be worth working 4x longer for. However, if I could find an Öh-Tech rear shock without the sticker on it and determined it to be exactly the same as a genuine Öh-Tech, then that would be a different story.

The back story to many of these situations, are that the manufacturers, like Oh-Tech or RyoDecker, have previously signed an agreement for the Chinese company to manufacture these items and subsequently the intellectual property to create these items has been given to the Chinese manufacturer as part of the deal. They then produce these parts (often under licence) to further profit from the deal upon completion of the original contract, or by selling the overruns (product created beyond the requirement of the initial order). Oh-Tech benefits by recovering some of the R&D cost and the manufacter benefits from the sale of the items later produced. What you are buying is effectively an Oh-Tech part at less than Oh-Tech prices, the downside is that it is likely to be a previous model to Oh-Tech's latest offering.

In some cases, it's simply the knockoff manufacturer has acquired the IP to produce the parts - perhaps not the patent - or they have simply copied the design. In these cases, the quality is usually lacking and a decision must be made at the time - is the loss of quality going to affect my purpose sufficiently to prevent me saving my hard earned coin and am I willing to take that risk.

In summary, though it may hurt in the long run as Oh-Tech and RyoDecker don't get my extra coin, they have usually already mitigated their losses and at least in the short-term I have benefited. It seems everyone ends up happy except Mr. Katman :2thumbsup

[Scuba_Steve]

Chinese stuff can be hit n miss, some good some not.
Just cause it does or doesn't have a brand name attached don't mean alot either, most brand name companies getting stuff made in china don't actively monitor quality control & alot of non-brand name stuff is actually "diverted" from the same production line as the brand name stuff. It can also be their own & made good quality but it can also be made bad quality like I said hit n miss with china products, all just a lucky dip.

I'll by cheap/chinese for things I don't care to much about, power tools I might use once in a blue moon, tire valve caps, LED lights etc etc I'll research & buy the best of anything I actually care about, my vehicles, computer, TV, camera's, power tools I use etc

[TINA RAY]

That's fine if you're buying a hairbrush.

What if you're buying a set of wheel bearings for your bike?






GET OVER IT KITTY


Remember when JAP was CRAP...................................and WHAT DO you Deal in NOW ????


You have your head up your Anus, if you think a Pussy like YOU is going to change the Tide.............Dreamer

[Katman]

What you are buying is effectively an Oh-Tech part at less than Oh-Tech prices, the downside is that it is likely to be a previous model to Oh-Tech's latest offering.


What if it's not just a previous model? What if it's the current model but suddenly produced using vastly inferior materials - while still using the Oh-Tech name?

[darkwolf]

What if it's not just a previous model? What if it's the current model but suddenly produced using vastly inferior materials - while still using the Oh-Tech name?

Common sense would have you look closely at the part first. If there are vastly inferior materials used or the workmanship is poor you would (should) be able to tell straight away. Again, in this situation, you would need to make a judgement call, is the benefit worth the risk? The old adage - if it looks too good to be true...

The other scenario is where the price isn't vastly different, the product looks the same but is inferior. In this situation, I'd say you'd have to rely on the vendor's reputation or again, take the risk.

[Katman]

GET OVER IT KITTY


Remember when JAP was CRAP...................................and WHAT DO you Deal in NOW ????


You have your head up your Anus, if you think a Pussy like YOU is going to change the Tide.............Dreamer

The Japanese very quickly recognised that the way forward was not in continuing to produce inferior crap.

The Chinese, on the other hand, seem intent on basing their position in the international market on 'cheap' rather than 'quality'.

[Katman]

Common sense would have you look closely at the part first. If there are vastly inferior materials used or the workmanship is poor you would (should) be able to tell straight away. Again, in this situation, you would need to make a judgement call, is the benefit worth the risk? The old adage - if it looks too good to be true...

The other scenario is where the price isn't vastly different, the product looks the same but is inferior. In this situation, I'd say you'd have to rely on the vendor's reputation or again, take the risk.

With all due respect, that post is extremely naive.

The vast majority of people don't pay that close an attention to the materials used in the product they're buying.

[darkwolf]

With all due respect, that post is extremely naive.

The vast majority of people don't pay that close an attention to the materials used in the product they're buying.

Which is why people who don't want to spend the time checking the material they are buying should be dealing with people they believe to be reputable. Though, disreputable people can create cheap knockoffs, the reputable people are likely to spot the knockoffs.

On the otherside of the coin, the reputable brands have been reducing quality for years. Goodyear did it in the last year or two with the Eagle F1 car tyres, shifting manufacture from German to China (the shift resulted in a friend getting more than 10,000KM less from his tyres - yet the price remained the same) . I have Goodyear tyres on my mundano that are the same size, model and ratings but completely different tread - 2 manufactured in Thailand, the other 2 Indonesia (from memory). Technically, I could fail a warrant by putting these on opposite ends of the same axle. The previous owner obviously trusted Goodyear but perhaps this wasn't a good option. If I had paid out for the tyres new, I'd have made ample noise about the problem. Looking at the product would have shown immediately, the different tread and manufacture place.

[TINA RAY]

The Japanese very quickly recognised that the way forward was not in continuing to produce inferior crap.

The Chinese, on the other hand, seem intent on basing their position in the international market on 'cheap' rather than 'quality'.


I import from China and sell to NZers


No one is complaining to me ...... and I certainly am not.


The customer decides in the end....not the supplier..... is there an economic boom in Taupo ?




''CHEAP IS THE NEW BLACK'' !!!.....(TM) TINA RAY 2012, KB

[Katman]

''CHEAP IS THE NEW BLACK'' !!!

You certainly sound like it.

[Edbear]

I import from China and sell to NZers


No one is complaining to me ...... and I certainly am not.


The customer decides in the end....not the supplier..... is there an economic boom in Taupo ?




''CHEAP IS THE NEW BLACK'' !!!.....(TM) TINA RAY 2012, KB

Wotchu selling?

[ducatilover]

I import from China and sell to NZers


No one is complaining to me ...... and I certainly am not.


The customer decides in the end....not the supplier..... is there an economic boom in Taupo ?




''CHEAP IS THE NEW BLACK'' !!!.....(TM) TINA RAY 2012, KB

Can I see some of your products please?

[TINA RAY]

Wotchu selling?



Motor cycle accessories.

[mashman]

But the Trains in Wellington be Korean, The new Mainline Locomotives be Chinese.

Is they? Not doubting ya like, as I'm sure the media were beating up China in regards to braking components and software issues relatively recently. Maybees some of the components are Chinese?

[TINA RAY]

.....and spares



I have some very shiny SKS bearings in stock......cheap at TWICE the price !!!


520 HD X-Link chain @ 80cents per link, delivered.....Thats X not O

[Flip]

You certainly sound like it.

You sound a lot like one of those jap crap folk from the 60's and 70's.

The chineese build some very high quality goods. Who built the PC you are using.

The businesses who sell your sub standard goods like the Warehouse and Bunnings are owned mostly by Auzy and Kiwis.

[JimO]

looks like a good quality chinese ute....seen lots of crashed utes but never seen a cab fall off yet, probably chinese bolts.267709

[Katman]

520 HD X-Link chain @ 80cents per link, delivered.....Thats X not O

And it's a known fact that the motorcycle chain coming out of China is among the shitiest that's available.

[Katman]

You sound a lot like one of those jap crap folk from the 60's and 70's.

The chineese build some very high quality goods. Who built the PC you are using.

The businesses who sell your sub standard goods like the Warehouse and Bunnings are owned mostly by Auzy and Kiwis.

You should probably read the whole thread.

[mashman]

The Chinese, on the other hand, seem intent on basing their position in the international market on 'cheap' rather than 'quality'.

That is probably a sustainable business model. They put the opposition out of business and the expertise is lost. Couple that with the price of materials from our high wage, in comparison with China, and they've got the market cornered. Tis the way of the future and it has been coming for a loooooong time. Gotta admit though, I didn't expect to see it in my lifetime.

[Howie]

Is they? Not doubting ya like, as I'm sure the media were beating up China in regards to braking components and software issues relatively recently. Maybees some of the components are Chinese?

Hmmm Ok. the Matangi units on the Wellington suburban lines are korean. The DL Locomotives are chinese, and the new wagons are chinese.

Both the Matangi's and DL's have had a range of "teething issues", and the Wagons have also had some issues.

[mashman]

Hmmm Ok. the Matangi units on the Wellington suburban lines are korean. The DL Locomotives are chinese, and the new wagons are chinese.

Both the Matangi's and DL's have had a range of "teething issues", and the Wagons have also had some issues.

I think the funniest was them not wanting to work because of frost.

[TINA RAY]

And it's a known fact that the motorcycle chain coming out of China is among the shitiest that's available.





You'd better warn those two people who have just pm'd me to buy some.

[Katman]

You'd better warn those two people who have just pm'd me to buy some.

Meh, they'll find out soon enough.

[ducatilover]

They'll find out soon enough.

If they're really that cheap I may buy one and run it on the GN, if it snaps I have a spare engine, hopefully it won't take my leg off.

I had a reasonably pricey 0-ring chain snap a link on the 600 after 2000km, lubed every tank of gas (3-400km) correctly tensioned. That was unfortunate.

[JimO]

you get what you pay for, doesnt matter what you buy

[Katman]

If they're really that cheap I may buy one and run it on the GN, if it snaps I have a spare engine, hopefully it won't take my leg off.



I've seen plenty of examples of the cheap Chinese chains flogging out in no time even on 250 singles.

Meh, if it takes your leg off you've got another one.

[PrincessBandit]

Caveat emptor and all that. I guess it all depends on what I'm buying - if it's knock-off OPI nail polish it's hardly a high risk purchase; if it's safety equipment or anything to do with my ride then I'd stick with trusted suppliers, even if it cost more.
If cheap is the bottom line for people then ultimately it may well cost them more in the long run. If they're lucky all will be well. If they're lucky.
I watched the programme this evening and it's simply reinforced my caution over buying anything of (a) large expense and/or (b) potentially high risk use e.g. the "NZ standard quality" ladders they showed on tv, online. Purchasing from trusted local sources e.g. your motorcycle shop or Mitre10 etc at least means you should have some comeback if the product turns out to be shit. Getting any backup or customer service from online purchasing from "Mr. Cheapo" is less likely to result in customer satisfaction.

One can only conclude from the posts of one particular member above means she will be very willing to stand by her products and give complete customer service in the event of product failure. Hear hear! for her.

[ducatilover]

I've seen plenty of examples of the cheap Chinese chains flogging out in no time even on 250 singles.

Meh, if it takes your leg off you've got another one.

If my leg gets taken off, you are more than welcome to laugh at it and make stump jokes

[Katman]

If my leg gets taken off, you are more than welcome to laugh at it and make stump jokes

You're on.

(You know me).

[blue rider]

Did nobody see the Close Up programme?

A whole batch of Chinese made aluminium ladders destined for Sweden, which were rejected by Sweden because they were made with wafer thin metal and clearly didn't carry the load that the Chinese claimed they would, ended up being imported into New Zealand.

Have we become so focused on 'cheap' that 'quality' doesn't even enter the equation these days?

yes.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

[ducatilover]

You're on.

(You know me).
:2thumbsup Brilliant.

I PM'd them, they're not selling chains and claim to be supplying your shop.
Got any cheap chains :bleh:

[Katman]

Got any cheap chains :bleh:

<img src="http://www.worldofstock.com/slides/PHO2912.jpg"/>

[Brian d marge]

Right product right price right time ..oh and they kinda work for less ...

what we should be doing is be competing head to head with the Chinese , that’s right produce the same shyt but better quality ... oh yes that will show em !

lets see, England , Hillman hunter , then the Sony transistor , now the Chinese Apad , next the Indian tantra .........wonder if there is a pattern....Naaaaaaa


Stephen

this thread is pure Gold ......

[gammaguy]

It's frightening that a country rightly considered a superpower is basing it's economy on flooding the international market with cheap crap directly copied from reputable brands, and even worse, producing counterfeit products and trying to pass them off as genuine articles.

Why the fuck are we kowtowing to the slimy pricks?

because everyone in NZ thinks price first and quality second

The Chinese are more than happy to exploit that

[Maha]

Did nobody see the Close Up programme?

A whole batch of Chinese made aluminium ladders destined for Sweden, which were rejected by Sweden because they were made with wafer thin metal and clearly didn't carry the load that the Chinese claimed they would, ended up being imported into New Zealand.

Have we become so focused on 'cheap' that 'quality' doesn't even enter the equation these days?

Hate to be pedantic but...the programme was Sunday and the ladders were rejected by Finland...
I liked the motorcycle frames being produced on the road side....''Dukati'' ones at that! :cool:

[JimO]

finland sweden its the same place innit

[Maha]

finland sweden its the same place innit

You'd be great as a boarder control officer.

[willytheekid]

Im with Katman in a way:yes:

I Don't understand why our Govn't and others are bending over backwards to deal with china. (actually I do understand...its about pure profit!)

Aside from producing alot of shitty products (they do make some good stuff tho), China is a communist country that has absolutely no regard for other countrys laws or business and trading standards!
They also have no respect for human rights!, its easy to produce cheaper products when your work force is made up of slave labour!.
Then there is the problem with them disregarding nearly ALL international laws and copyrights, they just don't make any effort to curb the abuse of human rights or breach of copy right.
On top of all the above, you also have to look at the effects of china's business and manufacturing processes...once again, they just don't give a shit about by products and the masive amounts of waste they produce, in fact they are one of the worlds worst polluters, and are responcible for the deaths of millions of workers and innocents through poor products, substandard working conditions and lethal by-products and waste etc.

So how can the rest of the world even compete when they are not operating to the same standards and laws that the rest of us are?...or should we start disregading basic human rights, the environment, product standards and laws just so we too can compete and make a fast buck!

...Im all for cheaper products....but at what cost?

Buy smart KBers, because theres more to it than just saving yourself a few bucks

ps: Please note, I acknowledge the fact that there are some great products made in china...but they are simply dwarfed by the inferior, dangerous and slave labour made ripoffs!....china needs to sort its shit out...and so do we as consumers.

[Swoop]

Unusually, I find myself in agreement with katman.

Corruption comes from the highest levels of the political arena of china and that passes down the food-chain. Everyone wants a slice of the profits so the quantities go up and the quality goes down.

I do not knowingly purchase chinese made stuff. They are getting dirtier too, by not stating country of manufacture.

Melamine into baby food is only the tip of a very large iceberg...

[Katman]

Corruption comes from the highest levels of the political arena of china and that passes down the food-chain.


And that's precisely why they're able to get away with blatant counterfeiting and total disregard of any copyright laws.

Corruption is an integral part of their society.

[Swoop]

And that's precisely why they're able to get away with blatant counterfeiting and total disregard of any copyright laws.

Corruption is an integral part of their society.
They have a dedicated band of hackers who seek out industrial and military secrets via the internet. All the relevant information to manufacture just about anything, yet still manage to fuck up the manufacture process.
Thank goodness they have yet to master the jet engine. Double thank goodness, that Air NZ didn't get our aircraft serviced there!

[JimO]

Double thank goodness, that Air NZ didn't get our aircraft serviced there!
yet..........

[GrayWolf]

And once again, just to clarify........

I'm not talking about foreign companies who get their product made in China if it meets their quality control standards.

I'm talking about Chinese companies producing products that have zero quality control.


But the Trains in Wellington be Korean, The new Mainline Locomotives be Chinese.

Those same factories producing goods for 'named brands' do also produce as high a quality goods as the ones produced for said 'OEM' brands... we see it with spares for our bikes... OEM brake pads??? buy a set of Vesra (who make OEM pads) and less than half the price. Same with Oil filters. I agree that the 'minefield' is making sure you get what you are expecting, and not a copy of.. like a Dukati. I know from buying a quality chinese product there are also factories making 'copies' with an almost identical name or a 'clone' that is cheap and nasty.
The 'Asian' countries have always been good at producing 'high tech, at a price'... classic was the made in hong kong transistor radio's of the 60's. You want at a price? We can build at a price...... remember which company was RUNNING the rail network when the new trains were actually ordered.... wasnt Kiwirail...

[mashman]

So how can the rest of the world even compete when they are not operating to the same standards and laws that the rest of us are?...or should we start disregading basic human rights, the environment, product standards and laws just so we too can compete and make a fast buck!

You won't like the answer to that ;). Wonder if the Chinese send the cheap shit overseas and keep the good shit to themselves? Just like we don't.

[ducatilover]

You won't like the answer to that ;). Wonder if the Chinese send the cheap shit overseas and keep the good shit to themselves? Just like we don't.

I would if I were them :cool: but it must be more sensible to send our good stuff away and charge too much for our rubbish.
'Tis good business and all that, I read it on KB.

[avgas]

So you're blinded solely by a cheap price?

That's worrying.
Your blind enough to think what we sell here is made here. I know whom I am more concerned about.

[avgas]

looks like a good quality chinese ute....seen lots of crashed utes but never seen a cab fall off yet, probably chinese bolts.267709
How da fuck did he get it up the tree like that?
FYI for the rest of you here is the model of ute http://www.greatwallauto.co.nz/default.asp?action=article&ID=21760

I am still at a loss how he got the BACK end of the ute up a tree like that.

[Katman]

You won't like the answer to that ;). Wonder if the Chinese send the cheap shit overseas and keep the good shit to themselves? Just like we don't.

I believe that's largely the case.

Dongfeng are one of the largest truck manufacturers in the world but are hardly heard of outside China.

The Chinese must be laughing their tits off at us stupid round eyes buying up all their crap.

[ducatilover]

How da fuck did he get it up the tree like that?
FYI for the rest of you here is the model of ute http://www.greatwallauto.co.nz/default.asp?action=article&ID=21760

I am still at a loss how he got the BACK end of the ute up a tree like that.

I'd love to see the equivalent price Jap ute do the same trick, should be good for a giggle.

[Flip]

I have a civil contracting company that uses those Greatwall utes, they have a fleet of them in Aust.

They say they are a bit gutless but fine as a light commercial truck.

After going through 4 sets of injectors in my last Toyota (at $4k a pop) even I am considering a great wall just to get away from the unreilyable jap common rail stuff. It's not just the Chineese that make crap stuff.

[Fast Eddie]

iv had a go in a great wall ute, brand new double cab with plenty of features.. not bad for a chinese effort I thought.

It was brand new though, so see how it wears and ages in 10-20 years eh? some of the plastics didn't look like they would last the distance.

also, the chassis flexed alot, going over some hilly/rough road the cab was twisted one way and the tray/deck was twisting the other way hehe.. mmm

still they are cheap as for a brand new ute.

dunno bout resale value either.

get a yank tank.. nice ford F450

[ducatilover]

I have a civil contracting company that uses those Greatwall utes, they have a fleet of them in Aust.

They say they are a bit gutless but fine as a light commercial truck.

After going through 4 sets of injectors in my last Toyota (at $4k a pop) even I am considering a great wall just to get away from the unreilyable jap common rail stuff.
Power wise, they're not bad IMO for something that costs as much as an abused pertol Japanese ute.


iv had a go in a great wall ute, brand new double cab with plenty of features.. not bad for a chinese effort I thought.

It was brand new though, so see how it wears and ages in 10-20 years eh? some of the plastics didn't look like they would last the distance.

also, the chassis flexed alot, going over some hilly/rough rod the cab was twisted one way and the tray/deck was twisting the other way hehe.. mmm

still they are cheap as for a brand new ute.

dunno bout resale value either.

get a yank tank.. nice ford F450
F650 or GTFO
Our 90's Hilux has chassis flex and is a tacky, pov pack pile of shit. Yet people swaer by them...
Has been fairly reliable though and can carry rather ridiculous amounts of weight for a small ute

Haven't driven in a GW much yet, only one small trip. Not as bad as people make it out to be, I'd happily buy three poverty pack GWs for the same price as a high spec Hilux, which are superbly over rated junk anyhoo:oi-grr:

[Flip]

Our utes do about 40k a year. They are usually fucked after 3 years farm use.

3 year 100k warranty, low tek and light on fuel.

Aparently the GW clutches are light duty, but then I did 2 in the last bloddy Toyota. I was glad to see the back of that thing actually.

My old landrover was actually more reilyable and only cost a fraction what the Toyota did to keep on the road.

[SS90]

I agree. China has the resources and the technology to produce the best product in the world.

But if you want cheap - they can do that too.

Why have we become so focused on cheap?

Because "we" are consumers, and we buy based on price.

As has been said, China supplies a product based on cost, and nothing else.
The more you are willing to spend on an item, the better the quality.

All New Audis (only the A8 is currently sold) sold in China, are produced in China, using Chines labour, and Chinese sourced parts.

No problems.

Cash is King.

Also, ALL other Audi engines (VW included) are made in, get this, Hungary.

Why? Because their labour is cheap, and they do what they are told.

Sound familure?

[ducatilover]

Our utes do about 40k a year. They are usually fucked after 3 years farm use.

3 year 100k warranty, low tek and light on fuel.

Aparently the GW clutches are light duty, but then I did 2 in the last bloddy Toyota. I was glad to see the back of that thing actually.

My old landrover was actually more reilyable and only cost a fraction what the Toyota did to keep on the road.

That last sentence is a shocker :lol::eek5:

Our Holux does a bit more than 40k a year.
The GW are using Misti 4G5x series motors aren't they? They were reasonable units in the 90s.

[avgas]

The GW are using Misti 4G5x series motors aren't they? They were reasonable units in the 90s.
First chassis I twisted was a 91 Lux double cab. Was ironically my first 100kph driving lesson too. Fucker didn't have power steering and I took a 90 deg turn at 110. It was a recipe for disaster.

Dunno much about 4G5 series. But I miss my 4G62 Single Cam. Fucken awesome engine. Only bad part was that it was little heavy and had low power. But torque and reliability made up for it. Way better than the DOHC.

New Luxes are no where as tough as the old ones were. But they have better engine stats. Old mans newish SR5 takes off like a good turbo should.

[JimO]

I have a civil contracting company that uses those Greatwall utes, they have a fleet of them in Aust.

They say they are a bit gutless but fine as a light commercial truck.

After going through 4 sets of injectors in my last Toyota (at $4k a pop) even I am considering a great wall just to get away from the unreilyable jap common rail stuff. It's not just the Chineese that make crap stuff.
so you spent 16 k on injectors.......i call bullshit, my last hilux needed injectors replacement at 60k done under warranty, cost toyota about 4k now they do them for 1200 if out of warranty, doubt great walls have any resale, i paid 48k for last hilux did over 90000ks in it had it nearly 5 years traded it in got 30k

[EJK]

Made in China Olympics


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=es9rTuUb1-w

[Maha]

Made in China Olympics



If he had only stayed in his own lane....soooooooooooooooo close.

[Katman]

Made in China Olympics



Was that the Special Olympics?

[mashman]

Dongfeng are one of the largest truck manufacturers in the world but are hardly heard of outside China.

The Chinese must be laughing their tits off at us stupid round eyes buying up all their crap.

I'd heard of Dong Feng but thought he was a porn star... big in China n all that.

They'll be raffing or ra ray to the bank. You gotta applaud the simplicity of it all, using consumerism to eat itself and paying for the privilege.

[Marnie]

I'd heard of Dong Feng but thought he was a porn star... big in China n all that.

They'll be raffing or ra ray to the bank. You gotta applaud the simplicity of it all, using consumerism to eat itself and paying for the privilege.

You're thinking of Long Dong the porno star....

[Katman]

Speaking of which....

Did anyone see the name of the Chinese guy who won gold in the trampolining?

[mashman]

You're thinking of Long Dong the porno star....

Ahhhhh borrocks... cheers for the heads up :eek5:

[Maha]

Speaking of which....

Did anyone see the name of the Chinese guy who won gold in the trampolining?

Was it Jun Pin Guy?

[Katman]

Was it Jun Pin Guy?

Close.

It was Dong Dong.

[GrayWolf]

You're thinking of Long Dong the porno star....

Not related to the other Chinese porn star? wun hung lo

[ducatilover]

Not related to the other Chinese porn star? wun hung lo

That's Suum Khannt's cousin?

[jellywrestler]

I guess the question us consumers ask, is how can chinese sell product for 1/6th the price we can buy locally? buy buying the metal from the dental department at Aushwitz to make your rod ends

[EJK]

Not related to the other Chinese porn star? wun hung lo

Close. His brother Ding Dong is doing quite well.

[mashman]

Close. His brother Ding Dong is doing quite well.

Ding Dong, Ding Dong, Ding Dong, hmmmm... can't say I know the guy, but his name rings a bell :eek:

[ducatilover]

Ding Dong, Ding Dong, Ding Dong, hmmmm... can't say I know the guy, but his name rings a bell :eek:

No. Lord, no, why? :weep: :facepalm:

[mashman]

No. Lord, no, why? :weep: :facepalm:

It had to be done. Not sure if it was Oveur or Unger Dunn.

[PrincessBandit]

Was that the Special Olympics?

Judging by the running you could well be right.

I enjoyed watching the clip of the squirrel that took over the baseball game. Reckon if he'd been in the hurdle video he'd have won it.

[jafar]

I don't know why you lot are bitching about the chinese bringing in products that keep the "known brands" @ least a little bit honest. Without their influence how much do you think the prices would have risen on consumer items if they wern't making them & marketing them @ a more realistic price ??

Remember when a good watch was a swiss one? The cost of a good one was up to a months wages. Now you can get a Chinese one for a few dollars.

Wern't GN250's made in china for quite a while before anyone figured out that someone had moved the production from Japan??

I had a zongshen 200 a few years ago, it was fine for the intended pourpose & went well right up until it was involved in a crash that wrote it off. It's cost was nearly half that of a japanese equivilent !

[JimO]

Wern't GN250's made in china for quite a while before anyone figured out that someone had moved the production from Japan??

!
yes and most people advise against the later chinese ones

[Katman]

I don't know why you lot are bitching about the chinese bringing in products that keep the "known brands" @ least a little bit honest. Without their influence how much do you think the prices would have risen on consumer items if they wern't making them & marketing them @ a more realistic price ??


The problem is a whole lot more sinister than that.

There are countless Chinese companies making counterfeit copies of reputable brands (right down to using the identical branding) while using inferior materials.

How would you feel if you bought a chainsaw you assumed to be a genuine Stihl and later found that it was a vastly inferior counterfeit?

[ducatilover]

yes and most people advise against the later chinese ones

I've owned both. Both have done what they're meant to, interestingly it's a Japanese one I'm rebuilding, with Chinese parts.

If you keep the Chinese ones outside the chrome will fall off and turn brown, instantly. :nya:

[jafar]

The problem is a whole lot more sinister than that.

There are countless Chinese companies making counterfeit copies of reputable brands (right down to using the identical branding) while using inferior materials.

How would you feel if you bought a chainsaw you assumed to be a genuine Stihl and later found that it was a vastly inferior counterfeit?


I agree with you on the counterfieting of name brands. That is a different discussion to the (claimed) inferiority of chinese products in general. There are a lot of well made consumer products that are sourced from China.

[ducatilover]

How would you feel if you bought a chainsaw you assumed to be a genuine Stihl and later found that it was a vastly inferior counterfeit?

That'd be a bitch. How can one tell if it's Chinese at the time of purchase?

[jafar]

I've owned both. Both have done what they're meant to, interestingly it's a Japanese one I'm rebuilding, with Chinese parts.

If you keep the Chinese ones outside the chrome will fall off and turn brown, instantly. :nya:

I've seen the same thing happen to a virago & that was built in Japan. The owner was an idiot & left it outside with little or no weather protection. The bike is near worthless now.

[ducatilover]

I've seen the same thing happen to a virago & that was built in Japan. The owner was an idiot & left it outside with little or no weather protection. The bike is near worthless now.

I love bikes liek that, cheap buying for decent bikes. Can of paint and she's sorted

[Oblivion]

With all due respect, that post is extremely naive.

The vast majority of people don't pay that close an attention to the materials used in the product they're buying.

Because most people don't really care about what goes into a product. If the product works, its fit for purpose. There have been a few knock offs that have lasted longer than original parts.

[jafar]

yes and most people advise against the later chinese ones

How many of the components of the Japanese ones were in fact made in China & shipped to Japan for assembly ?? They only became known as Chinese once they were manufactured & assembled in China .

[jafar]

That'd be a bitch. How can one tell if it's Chinese at the time of purchase?

Read the operators manual, if it says " plinted en China" it is often a good clue :lol:

[Katman]

SKF and NTN bearings were two more businesses that the Sunday programme showed being counterfeited by the Chinese.

[jafar]

SKF and NTN bearings were two more businesses that the Sunday programme showed being counterfeited by the Chinese.

So is your bitch with the quality of Chinese products generally? Or with the practice of counterfieting name brands ????

[Subike]

Read the operators manual, if it says " plinted en China" it is often a good clue :lol:

some lines from my Chinese owners manual.

""never lend you motorcycle to a learner, most accidents happen because of driver inexperience"

""drive with both hand, keep feet in stirrup"

"'driver should not get distracted by eating,drinking or reading book"

''For first 100k running in time avoid using brake rushing out and prolong time"

""wear bright clothing and hard hat for to be seen when riding""


And that is just a small collection of some strange information given in translation English of the Chinese owners Manuel supplied with my bike.

Oh, 6mths,7000+ks, no rust, only thing to fall off has been the horn. Ridden everyday to work in spite of the weather.

Dang these Chinese copies are such unreliable low quality pieces of junk eh.

Oh forgot to add, I'm still on the factory fitted tires, which don't seem to want to wear at all....and they seem to stick alright in the wet!

[Katman]

So is your bitch with the quality of Chinese products generally? Or with the practice of counterfieting name brands ????

My bitch was prompted by the programme on TV last night about the widespread counterfeiting of brand names but it includes the proliferation of piss poor quality products (that admittedly are cheap as piss) that are flooding the world market.

Motorcycle chains and wheel bearings that flog out within a couple of thousand kms are just a couple of items that spring to mind.

Many of the products that are being made to grossly inferior standards are actually items that are central to the integrity and safety of the vehicle.

[PrincessBandit]

My greatest concern is for the counterfeiting - I think most people would like to think that when they buy what's supposed to be a "genuine" branded item that is indeed the real mccoy. No one likes to pay $ (even a bargain) for something which then turns out to be a fake.

Paying a fraction of the price for an item which you know is a knock-off is quite different from thinking or assuming you're getting a genuine brand product.

[Subike]

My greatest concern is for the counterfeiting - I think most people would like to think that when they buy what's supposed to be a "genuine" branded item that is indeed the real mccoy. No one likes to pay $ (even a bargain) for something which then turns out to be a fake.

Paying a fraction of the price for an item which you know is a knock-off is quite different from thinking or assuming you're getting a genuine brand product.

Have to agree with this, PB, bought a pair of "quality " locally made" work books, supposedly , found the "made in china" label on the last line of the warranty paper. But I didnt pay a fraction of the price, rather what I expected at pay for a genuine article...

[jafar]

My bitch was prompted by the programme on TV last night about the widespread counterfeiting of brand names but it includes the proliferation of piss poor quality products (that admittedly are cheap as piss) that are flooding the world market.

Motorcycle chains and wheel bearings that flog out within a couple of thousand kms are just a couple of items that spring to mind.

Many of the products that are being made to grossly inferior standards are actually items that are central to the integrity and safety of the vehicle.

So your just taking a shot @ the Chinese manudfacturing industries in general ??

Have you included the counterfiet Levi's jeans from Hong Kong ??
Or the cheap as chips tee shirts from China??
How about the cars from Korea, China & India that can be brought for under $20,000 brand new with a full warranty & therefor undermining the "name brands" from the rest of the world ??

[Katman]

So your just taking a shot @ the Chinese manudfacturing industries in general ??

Have you included the counterfiet Levi's jeans from Hong Kong ??
Or the cheap as chips tee shirts from China??
How about the cars from Korea, China & India that can be brought for under $20,000 brand new with a full warranty & therefor undermining the "name brands" from the rest of the world ??

If you read between the lines I'm also taking a shot at a large percentage of New Zealand society who seem prepared to accept inferior crap.

[bogan]

If you read between the lines I'm also taking a shot at a large percentage of New Zealand society who seem prepared to accept inferior crap.

Its also quite telling how many New Zealand retailers blame or insult their (potential) customers for choosing to shop elsewhere, instead of stepping up and trying to make customers prefer them instead.
Retailers lamenting customer's drive for cheap parts acquisition because it puts their cost of customer acquisition up, does anyone else see the irony there?

[jellywrestler]

yes and most people advise against the later chinese ones

most people, fucking bullshit, they were $3000, the Equivalent japanese made volty was $6000, few people could argue with them being half price and they were made by suzuki, not copied by another company and $750 or so.
there were a couple of shortcomings on then, chrome on the headlight rim and taillight bracket and i understand some alternators cooked easy too we had one for a few years and damn good value for money.

[mashman]

Toyota to recall 878,000 cars due to suspension fault (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19090767)

"The carmaker has been trying to rebuild its image after a spate of recalls due to safety concerns in the past few years."

A handful of folk that I've read about, 2 in NZ, had the link plates on their RSVR's break. At least 2 have died. No recall due to it not being accepted as the reason for the incidents... even after one person sought professional assistance to "prove it". So a bunch of guys in the states started battering out link plates so we could get ourselves sorted. No doubt there are more manufacturers who just get things wrong sometimes... but ladders failing 50kg under the limit? I always thought ladders were one of the leading causes of injuries? If you import it and sell it ignorance should not be an excuse... but hey, business gotta do what it does best

[Katman]

Its also quite telling how many New Zealand retailers blame or insult their (potential) customers for choosing to shop elsewhere, instead of stepping up and trying to make customers prefer them instead.
Retailers lamenting customer's drive for cheap parts acquisition because it puts their cost of customer acquisition up, does anyone else see the irony there?

I think you've slid off down a tangent there.

This isn't about retailers lamenting a customers getting a DID chain from America for $100 instead of $160 from a shop here.

This is about customers who think that buying a $50 crap quality chain somehow represents good value.

[jafar]

If you read between the lines I'm also taking a shot at a large percentage of New Zealand society who seem prepared to accept inferior crap.

Thats not how it reads, it reads as a deliberate shot @ the Chinese industries in general.

I agree with you on the counterfieted items & also on the inferior quality of SOME items that have been sold into the NZ market. Cheap tee shirts that don't last the distance, poor quality chains, bearings etc. But your losing the focus of the argument by inferring that all these items come from China & they don't ! There is a wide range of product that is manufactured throughout the world that should never be sold as it is just crap.
Quality control in 'developing countries' is the problem, this is not limited to the Chinese by any means.

[Katman]

Thats not how it reads, it reads as a deliberate shot @ the Chinese industries in general.


Clearly you haven't read the whole thread.

I stated earlier that the Chinese have the technology and the resources to make the best product in the world if that's what they're asked for.

However, they seem far more focused on churning out cheap crap is all I'm saying.

[jafar]

Clearly you haven't read the whole thread.

I stated earlier that the Chinese have the technology and the resources to make the best product in the world if that's what they're asked for.

However, they seem far more focused on churning out cheap crap is all I'm saying.

Your wrong , I have read the whole thread. My point is that you seem to be aiming your venom solely @ the Chinese, they are not the only criminals making cheap crap & flooding the markets with it.

Nor are they the only ones involved in counterfieting name brands in the name of making a better profit.

The Chinese churn out what makes a profit, if the world is gagging for cheap cellphones then the Chinese can belt them out by the million.Take a close look @ your Iphone & you'll find it was made in China !! A lot of consumer goods that you buy with euro names on the front have never been near europe, they were made in China also. Some Models of BMW are (or were) made in China. Black & Decker have a lot of their product made in China.
Holden, Ford & no doubt others manufacture & ship direct from Thailand to where ever they have been sold to, complete with the appropriate badges & do it to a high standard.

[bogan]

This isn't about retailers lamenting a customers getting a DID chain from America for $100 instead of $160 from a shop here.

No, it is obvious its only China we need to worry about...


This is about customers who think that buying a $50 crap quality chain somehow represents good value.

Are you familiar with hire-purchase? Much the same deal, except in HP you know you're getting screwed, every time. With cheaper gear, sometimes you are better off, sometimes not, an intelligent buyer can make it better off a lot more than not.
There will always be examples of those who make poor decisions, or take a gamble and loose. However, without adding all the benefits into the equation there is no argument to slag off the product quality in a price range, or country of manufacture.
I'm still going to look for the cheapest product to satisfy my needs, and I'm still going to save a shitload buy importing from china.

[Katman]

Your wrong , I have read the whole thread. My point is that you seem to be aiming your venom solely @ the Chinese, they are not the only criminals making cheap crap & flooding the markets with it.

Nor are they the only ones involved in counterfieting name brands in the name of making a better profit.

The Chinese churn out what makes a profit, if the world is gagging for cheap cellphones then the Chinese can belt them out by the million.Take a close look @ your Iphone & you'll find it was made in China !! A lot of consumer goods that you buy with euro names on the front have never been near europe, they were made in China also. Some Models of BMW are (or were) made in China. Black & Decker have a lot of their product made in China.
Holden, Ford & no doubt others manufacture & ship direct from Thailand to where ever they have been sold to, complete with the appropriate badges & do it to a high standard.

No, you clearly haven't read the whole thread.

I've also stated earlier in the thread that this isn't about foreign companies who get their product manufactured in China where those products are still subject to the foreign company's quality control.

This is about Chinese companies that have zero quality control.

(For many of them their only form of quality control is how closely they can get their product to look like the genuine article).

[jafar]

No, you clearly haven't read the whole thread.

I've also stated earlier in the thread that this isn't about foreign companies who get their product manufactured in China where those products are still subject to the foreign company's quality control.

This is about Chinese companies that have zero quality control.

(For many of them their only form of quality control is how closely they can get their product to look like the genuine article).



Oh & here was I thinking it was about counterfieting, lack of quality control & crap product bring flogged off for peanuts & this only being done by the Chinese. My mistake :motu:
The point I wa making as you seem to have missed it is that the Chinese are not the only ones guilty of this practice

[Katman]

Oh & here was I thinking it was about counterfieting, lack of quality control & crap product bring flogged off for peanuts & this only being done by the Chinese. My mistake :motu:
The point I wa making as you seem to have missed it is that the Chinese are not the only ones guilty of this practice

They're the only superpower doing it.

Do you really think there's nothing to be concerned about when an economy the size of China's is built to a large degree on the concept of disregarding quality in favour of cheap?

[ducatilover]

They're the only superpower doing it.

Do you really think there's nothing to be concerned about when an economy the size of China's is built to a large degree on the concept of disregarding quality in favour of cheap?

Well, because Amurrricah is a superfucked/supershit...so yes :bleh:
Apart from the appaling shit the Murricahns make and call vehicles. TBH it's digusting the quality of the junk they make and palm off.

[jafar]

They're the only superpower doing it.

Do you really think there's nothing to be concerned about when an economy the size of China's is built to a large degree on the concept of disregarding quality in favour of cheap?

Do you think that their being a superpower makes a difference when your being ripped off by inferior junk???

[jafar]

Well, because Amurrricah is a superfucked/supershit...so yes :bleh:
Apart from the appaling shit the Murricahns make and call vehicles. TBH it's digusting the quality of the junk they make and palm off.

nobody mention the pinto :clap:

[ducatilover]

nobody mention the pinto :clap:

Don't be fuggin rude you

[Katman]

Do you think that their being a superpower makes a difference when your being ripped off by inferior junk???

It certainly makes a difference to the scale of it.

[jafar]

It certainly makes a difference to the scale of it.


Scale yes, but they are far from the only ones. Rip offs & crap are made everywhere. Sad but true.

[Katman]

Scale yes, but they are far from the only ones. Rip offs & crap are made everywhere. Sad but true.

I've not ever said they were the only guilty party.

However, all the other rip offs & crap in the world added together probably don't come close to the scale of rip offs & crap coming out of China.

[onearmedbandit]

Ultimately the manufacturers are not to blame. If there wasn't a market for cheap crap, the majority of which is sourced from China, then they wouldn't survive. I remember as a lad my father having an extensive tool collection in his workshop, and I remember all too well the lectures on how much each tool would cost to replace. Not all my friends had the same access to tools as I did, simply because they were pricey and you couldn't buy cheap. Now every man and his dog can buy a 52pce socket set for $53 (http://www.trademe.co.nz/building-renovation/tools/tool-boxes-sets/auction-499679061.htm). And then curse about poor quality piece of shit tools breaking. And how this never happened in his old man's day.

Can't stop a fool and his money being parted.

[gammaguy]

The point is that the Chinese will sell down to the lowest common denominator,and will only stop when the consumer stops buying them.they do not understand any other message.

This means that a few guinea pigs along the way will learn the hard way as people buy products that look acceptable but in fact are not(drive chains for example)

Its the old story,if it is too good(or too cheap)to be true,then it probably is.

All the major importers are supplied with regular bulletins from the factories of how to identify counterfeit or knock off items,whether they choose to implement or police this knowledge is a different matter entirely.

[R6_kid]

I'll buy cheap and nasty as long as my health and safety aren't at risk.

[Katman]

I'll buy cheap and nasty as long as my health and safety aren't at risk.

And unfortunately, the customer's health and safety is the last thing on the minds of a huge portion of China's manufacturing machine.

[ducatilover]

Them skinny eyes should start selling tobacco.

[Katman]

Googling 'Unsafe Chinese products' makes for sobering reading.

From toys, to food, to machinery - they've got all bases covered.

[ducatilover]

They're fuckin' good at it, yes :yes:

But, we can make teh internets tell us anything too, just so wankers like me can annoy people.
http://money.usnews.com/money/blogs/flowchart/2007/09/12/china-isnt-the-villain-behind-dangerous-imports


See?

[Katman]

They're fuckin' good at it, yes :yes:

But, we can make teh internets tell us anything too, just so wankers like me can annoy people.
http://money.usnews.com/money/blogs/flowchart/2007/09/12/china-isnt-the-villain-behind-dangerous-imports


See?

Yeah, but that article says nothing more than "Meh, so we put melamine in your dog's pet food but we didn't force you to feed it to Rover. It's your place to catch us out poisoning your animals".

Or "Meh, so we put enough lead in the toy to stop a charging Rhino but we didn't force your baby to put it in it's mouth".

Not exactly the level of integrity you'd hope for from a nation that is fast becoming (or already is) the world's largest manufacturer and exporter.

[Scuba_Steve]

Your also ignoring that Japan, Taiwan, & Korea all went through the "shit" phase before making good quality products. China's actually starting to emerge from the "shit" phase now, as Top Gear pointed out the progress that China has made with cars in the past 5 years is such that in another 5 years you'll be driving a Chinese car.
If they decide to fully emerge from the "shit" phase however, costs will go up & manufacturing will be moved to another low cost country like has always happened in the past & we'll all be able to complain about another countries cheap shit products. So to some extent it's in China's best interest to keep producing the cheap shit along with the good quality.

[pzkpfw]

A year or two ago there was a kerfuffle at some N.Z. University about Chinese students who'd been caught cheating. Basically copying each others work.

Some dude (who studied China) was arguing for leniency, claiming it was a cultural thing. The claim was that in China it was standard to be taught something, and that's just the way it was. Learning was often about how well one was able to memorise and regurgitate the material being taught. There's less emphasis (according to him) on free thought, extrapolation and such. Accurate copying was itself an aim.

(No, I can't provide references right now. It's something I read in the DomPost a year or so ago.)

So on top of all the other stuff (economics; the factories are there anyway; ...), I do wonder if copying products is an ingrained cultural thing over there.

[Katman]

Your also ignoring that Japan, Taiwan, & Korea all went through the "shit" phase before making good quality products.

Japan's manufacturing progress was actually very different.

They didn't set out to make exact replicas of existing products nor did they try to fool the world with counterfeit products nor did they set about intentionally/knowingly using lethal substances in their products.

While the quality may have been less than was available elsewhere (although that is actually debatable*) a large part of the "Jap crap" sentiment was a carry over of bad feeling from WW2.

*It's debatable whether the earliest Japanese motorcycles were in fact any worse than the bikes the British were producing at the time.

[bogan]

Japan's manufacturing progress was actually very different.

They didn't set out to make exact replicas of existing products nor did they try to fool the world with counterfeit products nor did they set about intentionally/knowingly using lethal substances in their products.

Are we still talking about drive chains?

[Edbear]

Yeah, but that article says nothing more than "Meh, so we put melamine in your dog's pet food but we didn't force you to feed it to Rover. It's your place to catch us out poisoning your animals".

Or "Meh, so we put enough lead in the toy to stop a charging Rhino but we didn't force your baby to put it in it's mouth".

Not exactly the level of integrity you'd hope for from a nation that is fast becoming (or already is) the world's largest manufacturer and exporter.

Sounds like the tobacco companies... ;)

[avgas]

So on top of all the other stuff (economics; the factories are there anyway; ...), I do wonder if copying products is an ingrained cultural thing over there.
Actually its the same here for lots of stuff also. NZ loves to copy others. But we are fortunate enough to make it look like we had the idea all along.

I recall many years ago, the designer of the Aquada stating it was ok to have "inspiration". But you were effectively copying someone elses idea. (in his case, the bond lotus).

Don't even get me started on the Jap bikes that look like brit bikes that look like German bikes.
One of the worst concepts you have to deal with as a designer is "clean paper". Where you start from scratch. So many don't.
One designer I heard of starts his originals by finding a bit of paper with some lines (aka fuckups) already on it.

So the Chinese aren't the first to copy, they won't be last. They are probably just the most publicized.

[avgas]

If you read between the lines I'm also taking a shot at a large percentage of New Zealand society who seem prepared to accept inferior crap.
Errrr a very large % of NZ Business runs on the mentality that these people will buy if the price is right.
To remove that market demographic...........sounds very much like a crazy rich Russian telling us how we should live our lives.
http://dailycontributor.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/katia_verber2.jpg

[ducatilover]

Yeah, but that article says nothing more than "Meh, so we put melamine in your dog's pet food but we didn't force you to feed it to Rover. It's your place to catch us out poisoning your animals".

Or "Meh, so we put enough lead in the toy to stop a charging Rhino but we didn't force your baby to put it in it's mouth".

Not exactly the level of integrity you'd hope for from a nation that is fast becoming (or already is) the world's largest manufacturer and exporter.

Fuck it, I really should read these contradicting articles before posting them :sweatdrop

[JMemonic]

Your also ignoring that Japan, Taiwan, & Korea all went through the "shit" phase before making good quality products. China's actually starting to emerge from the "shit" phase now, as Top Gear pointed out the progress that China has made with cars in the past 5 years is such that in another 5 years you'll be driving a Chinese car.
If they decide to fully emerge from the "shit" phase however, costs will go up & manufacturing will be moved to another low cost country like has always happened in the past & we'll all be able to complain about another countries cheap shit products. So to some extent it's in China's best interest to keep producing the cheap shit along with the good quality.

There is one factor in that equation the will always unbalance the playing field in China's favour, the fact they refuse to float the Yuan and have it tied to the American dollar at some insane rate, thus will always be able to sell goods at a lower price as wages cost less etc etc.

But your thought that cheaper quality manufacturing will shift sources is happening currently, India is to aware of the potential fall out and has attempted to have a little control but Pakistan and some of the former Soviet states well they are another story.

[Swoop]

Not exactly the level of integrity you'd hope for from a nation that is fast becoming (or already is) the world's largest manufacturer and exporter.
But there is no forseeable end to their production volume either. The Panama Canal is having new (wider) locks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panama_Canal_expansion_project) and gates added, so that much larger ships can get their raw resources to china.

Interesting to see that even china is getting too expensive to manufacture there. Some companies are using India or Pakistan as a cheaper option.

[ducatilover]

But there is no forseeable end to their production volume either. The Panama Canal is having new (wider)
locks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panama_Canal_expansion_project) and gates added, so that much larger ships can get their raw resources to china.

Interesting to see that even china is getting too expensive to manufacture there. Some companies are using India or Pakistan as a cheaper option.


Like the "genuine NZ made, NZ leather" riding jacket I had years ago, tiny little label said made in Pakistan.
The salesman at the bike shop told me it was super high quality NZ made blah blah and it said so on the bigger label :lol:
Little did I know...
Should've checked over it more :crazy:
Managed to save my life in a 160km/h crash though

[Subike]

Like the "genuine NZ made, NZ leather" riding jacket I had years ago, tiny little label said made in Pakistan.
The salesman at the bike shop told me it was super high quality NZ made blah blah and it said so on the bigger label :lol:
Little did I know...
Should've checked over it more :crazy:
Managed to save my life in a 160km/h crash though


I remember reading somewhere that all leather that is produced for clothing comes from Pakistan.
So you jacket could very well be a genuine NZ made, NZ leather jacket, just cured and readied for the clothing industry in Pakistan.

[scumdog]

I remember reading somewhere that all leather that is produced for clothing comes from Pakistan.
So you jacket could very well be a genuine NZ made, NZ leather jacket, just cured and readied for the clothing industry in Pakistan.

Yup, my fine tassled item came from stan.

[schrodingers cat]

Sephen Tindle (The Man)

'Making the desirable affordable'

It might be cheap but at least its shit!

Like Rod Donald used to say - everything in the Ware Whare is destined for landfill.

He's trained a generation to accept price over quality. And the drive to turn NZ into a low wage economy back in the nineties drove the nail home

[TINA RAY]

........'' the drive to turn NZ into a low wage economy back in the nineties drove the nail home ''





.....and THAT is the reason we are, where we are today.......:(

[Edbear]

Touchy today madness?

[JMemonic]

I remember reading somewhere that all leather that is produced for clothing comes from Pakistan.
So you jacket could very well be a genuine NZ made, NZ leather jacket, just cured and readied for the clothing industry in Pakistan.

You are likely to be on to it there, its cheaper to get wool sent to India/Pakistan to be cleaned, dyed and spun for carpets than it is here or in Aus hence why wool processing plants in Christchurch went under both before and after the quakes.

[Brian d marge]

ok going to give this a shot,,,

England..... been there bought a hillman hunter ...right price... blah blah

china yes, tied the yuan , lots of poo heading china’s way soon
Pakistan ,,,cheap same as England and china and Japan before them ...next one is probably turkey after India ....

and as u watch you local high street go belly up , try internet .com ...from china .....now that’s a bargain ,

See my sign for the answer , you DONT need the latest Ipone ,,yamasaki ....its mostly the same as last years ,,,,,,and last years is half the price on your credit card

oh yes and John key will lead NZ out of debt .........how stupid can people get, but you haven’t reach the top yet ...and I have 30 odd years left , lets see what we can achieve .....

go go stupids

Stephen

[gammaguy]

ok going to give this a shot,,,

England..... been there bought a hillman hunter ...right price... blah blah

china yes, tied the yuan , lots of poo heading china’s way soon
Pakistan ,,,cheap same as England and china and Japan before them ...next one is probably turkey after India ....

and as u watch you local high street go belly up , try internet .com ...from china .....now that’s a bargain ,

See my sign for the answer , you DONT need the latest Ipone ,,yamasaki ....its mostly the same as last years ,,,,,,and last years is half the price on your credit card

oh yes and John key will lead NZ out of debt .........how stupid can people get, but you haven’t reach the top yet ...and I have 30 odd years left , lets see what we can achieve .....

go go stupids

Stephen

Finally!

someone has connected the keyboard directly to their brain,without editing software in the middle.

Scary thing is.........I understand it:crazy:

[gammaguy]

A year or two ago there was a kerfuffle at some N.Z. University about Chinese students who'd been caught cheating. Basically copying each others work.

Some dude (who studied China) was arguing for leniency, claiming it was a cultural thing. The claim was that in China it was standard to be taught something, and that's just the way it was. Learning was often about how well one was able to memorise and regurgitate the material being taught. There's less emphasis (according to him) on free thought, extrapolation and such. Accurate copying was itself an aim.

(No, I can't provide references right now. It's something I read in the DomPost a year or so ago.)

So on top of all the other stuff (economics; the factories are there anyway; ...), I do wonder if copying products is an ingrained cultural thing over there.

If the Chinese did not invent the phrase"the end justfies the means" then they dam well should have

[Brian d marge]

Finally!

someone has connected the keyboard directly to their brain,without editing software in the middle.

Scary thing is.........I understand it:crazy:
Scary thing is ,. im pissed as a fart

Potieen
Stephen ( barry )

[James Deuce]

Your also ignoring that Japan, Taiwan, & Korea all went through the "shit" phase before making good quality products. China's actually starting to emerge from the "shit" phase now, as Top Gear pointed out the progress that China has made with cars in the past 5 years is such that in another 5 years you'll be driving a Chinese car.
If they decide to fully emerge from the "shit" phase however, costs will go up & manufacturing will be moved to another low cost country like has always happened in the past & we'll all be able to complain about another countries cheap shit products. So to some extent it's in China's best interest to keep producing the cheap shit along with the good quality.

The origins of the reputation of those three countries are somewhat different to China's. All three of those countries trade openly on an open global market and eventually traded themselves out of the disastrous mess that decades of internecine, local, civil, regional and World War left them. They did it by producing a product better than the "copies" they started with. Nissan and Honda both took British Leyland "B", "O", and "M" series engines to levels of sophistication, performance, and reliability in the 70s that their designers could only dream of, and the only response that GB and the US could come up with was to laugh at the silly yellow people and their "junk". A mere twenty years after they were rebuilt from a smoking hole they'd refined their copies to something that exceeded their progenitors. Hyundai and Daewoo simply assumed the mantle of the world's ship builders because no one else would do the job and many had either laid the workers off or sold the tools build ships because they were bankrupt or needing short term fixes. As much as we love to loathe the US, most of these industries got their start with US aid - billions of it at a time when "billions" wasn't a euphemism for $5.

Most of those countries only produced copies because they had been utterly destroyed, not growing local markets and industries from First Principles like China's economy is, an industry that does very nicely looking after a rapidly growing and isolated local market. The local market buys shit, because they simply used to have no shit to buy and if some of that shit is exported at a profit, well then, silly us for buying that shit.

[Scuba_Steve]

Most of those countries only produced copies because they had been utterly destroyed, not growing local markets and industries from First Principles like China's economy is, an industry that does very nicely looking after a rapidly growing and isolated local market. The local market buys shit, because they simply used to have no shit to buy and if some of that shit is exported at a profit, well then, silly us for buying that shit.

^ that part sounds awfully like America only without the heavy taxation on superior imports

[Ocean1]

The local market buys shit, because they simply used to have no shit to buy and if some of that shit is exported at a profit, well then, silly us for buying that shit.

The local market might not know quality if it bit them on the arse, but the local manufacturers certainly do. There's enough European and American QA managed factories there for them to have learned that it costs no more to make quality product than it does shit. I think they're just so focused on keeping individual unit costs down they fail to learn that.

Also, there's some seriously tilted playing fields out there, some Cineese product is hitting the international market at a price lower than the wholesale material costs. Don't know how but someone's playing with the cost-to-market numbers. I suspect that'd be central govt, and the reason would be to hurt strategic off-shore competitors. Anti-dumping laws just don't work here for some reason.

[Katman]

Also, there's some seriously tilted playing fields out there, some Cineese product is hitting the international market at a price lower than the wholesale material costs.

I had a customer come in one day with one of these little Chinese dirtbikes that the Warehouse were flogging off. The rear sprocket had broken away from the rear hub. Some time after telling him that to source a rear hub and lace it into the rim would cost more than the bike was worth (and to take it away 'cos I refuse to work on them anyway) I happened to notice someone selling complete brand new rear wheels for those bikes on Trademe for $60.

That's rim, spokes, hub, bearings, tyre and tube - for $60.

You can't tell me there's anything resembling quality in those wheels.

And we put our kids on them.

[Paul in NZ]

Well there is cheap shit and then there is cheap shit but even cheap shit has its uses… It really depends on what you think you are going to use it for.

I have several cheap Chinese tools at home and I’m bloody glad to have them. Usually they are for occasional home handyman type use and they perform wonderfully. I was doing some paving a while back and used up a $25 hand held grinder. Masonry grit / dust is brutal to any tool and frankly this was going to be sacrificial anyway. Damn thing came with a spare set of brushes which after I blew the dust out of it with my cheap Chinese compressor, swapped the brushes it fired up like a good un and is still defying logic by grinding stuff.

I’ve also purchased spanners in odd sizes to cut up into special tools for weird Harold uses – no problems. Tools used to be so expensive to buy its no wonder half the British bikes here were fucked with rounded nuts and bodged bolts, at best you could afford a 6" Crescent and grandads old screwdriver.

I’ve purchased stuff direct from China on line and never had an issue – their tracking systems work better than ours and the trouble only seems to start when the local courier gets involved. On one occasion when a shipment went awry the Chinese guy was the one who sorted it out and found out where it went - local people were useless and simply didnt care.

For sure I avoid their bearings for critical applications like wheels or driveshafts etc but that’s common sense. Usually these are difficult to serve areas. Its all about horses for courses and I welcome their shit because without it I’d never afford a compressor or a spray gun etc. Gawd bless em I say!

Sure – a $60 rear wheel is likely to be crap but with careful use and a child only rider it will probably be OK. Its when dad gets pissed and decides to pop a few wheelies that things go horribly wrong.

[Robert Taylor]

Its an affront to humanity that they are allowed to make anything other than firecrackers and rice.

[Ocean1]

Its an affront to humanity that they are allowed to make anything other than firecrackers and rice.

I once split a Honda XL250 tank so I could repair it properly. I found the word "ESSO" etched on the inside of one half. The bastards had made the tank from an old 44 gallon drum. Didn't prevent the bike accumulating a reputation as one of the best machines of it's era.

There's no such thing as poor quality material, just poor material selection for the specific application.

[Katman]

I once split a Honda XL250 tank so I could repair it properly. I found the word "ESSO" etched on the inside of one half. The bastards had made the tank from an old 44 gallon drum. Didn't prevent the bike accumulating a reputation as one of the best machines of it's era.


To be fair though, I'm sure Esso have never had their oil drums made out of play dough.

[Madness]

A wise man once told me "In China they'll work for a bowl of rice a day. There's plenty of countries in Africa where the people will work their arses off for a bowl of rice a week."

[Brian d marge]

This is made in China
267900

This is made in New Zealand

267901

The case for the defence rests

Stephen

[gammaguy]

This is made in China
267900

This is made in New Zealand

267901

The case for the defence rests

Stephen

the chinese girl has melamine in her tits

i wouldnt suck those mate.....