Manfeild slip road use

[Billy]

I spoke to Steve Easthope at the Manfeild office this morning on this matter,He is 100% behind motorcycles using it and was amused when I told him some competitors had expressed concern,Provided it is used in the appropriate manner,IE all competitors remain behind the whiteline that is and always has been there,Manfeild encourage the use of this facility,For motorcycles only,I have also spoken with him and asked them to take action regarding their open test days,Whereby they run up to 600 and over 600 classes,We have observed a number of people on 600 and over competitors are sneaking out on their larger capacity machines in the under 600 sessions,The speed differential between a 600 supersport machine and even a minilite machine is significant and extremely dangerous,Its the speed differential that will cause the most damage,If you have a 600 or larger machine,Please refrain from sneaking out in the under 600 sessions,It will be policed from here on in,I am also working on a "Motorcycles only" breifing for all attending these testdays to read before they are allowed out onto the track,Again there will be consequences if you are caught running outside of your designated class,SAFE,FUN and FAIR,Think about it !!!!

[neil_cb125t]

I spoke to Steve Easthope at the Manfeild office this morning on this matter,He is 100% behind motorcycles using it and was amused when I told him some competitors had expressed concern,Provided it is used in the appropriate manner,IE all competitors remain behind the whiteline that is and always has been there,Manfeild encourage the use of this facility,For motorcycles only,I have also spoken with him and asked them to take action regarding their open test days,Whereby they run up to 600 and over 600 classes,We have observed a number of people on 600 and over competitors are sneaking out on their larger capacity machines in the under 600 sessions,The speed differential between a 600 supersport machine and even a minilite machine is significant and extremely dangerous,Its the speed differential that will cause the most damage,If you have a 600 or larger machine,Please refrain from sneaking out in the under 600 sessions,It will be policed from here on in,I am also working on a "Motorcycles only" breifing for all attending these testdays to read before they are allowed out onto the track,Again there will be consequences if you are caught running outside of your designated class,SAFE,FUN and FAIR,Think about it !!!!

Yeah totally - the only issue i had was when we were released from the grid (for what ever reason) for a 2 lap re warm up and on the second lap the marshall started walking across the grass pointing the red flag and signing us to go the slip road.........i was coming out of splash at full speed.......i didn't make the turn right, i had to use the grass...... if that was going to happen then mr marshall needs to be on the track sooner with a yellow waiving at the marshall point prior. Still i made it back to the slip road fine.....in the end.

[CHOPPA]

Cool mate thanks for taking that on board.

Just a note, also the small bikes like pro twins in the 600 and 1000 session. Quite a bit differential in speed but I guess they are boarderline between both classes

[Kiwi Graham]

Good decisive action Billy :niceone:
Now get back out to your workshop and finish my fairings ;)

[yungatart]

I'm glad to see that common sense is prevailing here.
Well done Billy!

[Premature Accelerato]

I'm glad to see that common sense is prevailing here.
Well done Billy!

So what should be the call on test days at Manfeild when someone turns up on an older bike over 600cc but is clearly no where as fast as a late model bike, perhaps not even as fast as a new 600?

[Drew]

The power and speed spread of the bikes we get at any track day, means that it really needs a lot of common sense. (A term that I really cannot fathom coming from New Zealand, there is nothing common about using your head in any large groups I've witnessed). Due to us being prepared to take nearly fuckin anything on a track. I myself have spent a day thrashing the arse off an SR600 at Manfield, that's a bike that nomatter who pilots, needs to go out with the little bikes.

[scracha]

Might be better being hundy ponies and above instead of 600 ccs ?

[RobGassit]

Can I ask what the consequences exactly are for an infraction on a test day?

[Drew]

Can I ask what the consequences exactly are for an infraction on a test day?
If you fucked Sue or someone from the track off, you could be tresspassed I suppose.

Event orgnisers could give you the arse and not accept entries again.

MNZ usualy have nothing to do with track days at all, unless your surname is Meads.

[Duke5]

I have been on many testdays and think as already mentioned that common sense should prevail. Before a vmcc round there may be 40 odd bikes on a testday where obviously there should be 2 groups. Between rounds you might get 4 or 5 bikes on a testday so what is the point splitting them up? Plenty of room no matter what times your doing.
I ride a 1000 and do 1.13 -1.15's around manfield ( yep no star). I know a lot of guys on 600,s doing 1.12's or quicker. I also know a lot of people on 1000's doing 1.22's or slower so what happens now?
This is where the common sense comes in. If you are a newbie on a bmw1000 but your slow as fuck then whats the point going out with the quick racers?
Should come down to times no matter what you ride (within reason). If you do 1.06's to 1.15's you go in that group no matter if you are on a 600 or a 1000.
If you do 1.15,s to 1.25's say, then thats your group no matter what you are on, once again within reason. Prolites etc should probably in another group due to obvious speed difference down the straights, but only on the testdays before racing weekends.
May be confusing for a few but seems pretty straight forward to me.
For those who dont know what times you are doing or once again a newbie, stick to the trackdays rather than the testdays until you know what lap times you are doing.
Obviously this is just the way i see it but im sure there will be lots of other opinions!!

[sidecar bob]

The 600cc thing dosent work in all cases.
I took my 1975 BMW 1000 (solo, not sidechair) out in the up to 600 class & I could only just keep up with a 675 Daytona.
It would have been a hazard mixing it with modern 1000's.
We will be back there before the end of the month with the same bike & I would like to know where I stand before turning up.
Could you please clear that one up for me Billy?

[Shorty_925]

Anyone been to Taupo to know how they run a test day?

Ive never been to a test day at any track so its interesting reading.

[RobGassit]

The 600cc thing dosent work in all cases.
I took my 1975 BMW 1000 (solo, not sidechair) out in the up to 600 class & I could only just keep up with a 675 Daytona.
It would have been a hazard mixing it with modern 1000's.
We will be back there before the end of the month with the same bike & I would like to know where I stand before turning up.
Could you please clear that one up for me Billy?

They probably won't take any action against you as riding that old aero engine is punishment enough.

[yungatart]

So what should be the call on test days at Manfeild when someone turns up on an older bike over 600cc but is clearly no where as fast as a late model bike, perhaps not even as fast as a new 600?

Sorry, I did not make myself clear. My common sense comment was referring to use of the slip road.
Having never attended a test day, I won't comment until I have given it some thought.

[CHOPPA]

Im getting a bit fucked off at the little digs at me regarding the slip road. Yeah ok you might think my safety concern is humorous or not common sense. Nice way to encourage people to come forward about safety concerns though, top notch!

[Drew]

Im getting a bit fucked off at the little digs at me regarding the slip road. Yeah ok you might think my safety concern is humorous or not common sense. Nice way to encourage people to come forward about safety concerns though, top notch!

I laugh at you cos of your shiney head, and scrawny little legs. Is that still OK?

[jellywrestler]

Im getting a bit fucked off at the little digs at me regarding the slip road. Yeah ok you might think my safety concern is humorous or not common sense. Nice way to encourage people to come forward about safety concerns though, top notch! Think of the positives though Sloan, they're now looking at new caterers for the first time in forty something years, thanks to you

[miper]

I spoke to Steve Easthope at the Manfeild office this morning on this matter,He is 100% behind motorcycles using it and was amused when I told him some competitors had expressed concern,Provided it is used in the appropriate manner,IE all competitors remain behind the whiteline that is and always has been there,Manfeild encourage the use of this facility,For motorcycles only,I have also spoken with him and asked them to take action regarding their open test days,Whereby they run up to 600 and over 600 classes,We have observed a number of people on 600 and over competitors are sneaking out on their larger capacity machines in the under 600 sessions,The speed differential between a 600 supersport machine and even a minilite machine is significant and extremely dangerous,Its the speed differential that will cause the most damage,If you have a 600 or larger machine,Please refrain from sneaking out in the under 600 sessions,It will be policed from here on in,I am also working on a "Motorcycles only" breifing for all attending these testdays to read before they are allowed out onto the track,Again there will be consequences if you are caught running outside of your designated class,SAFE,FUN and FAIR,Think about it !!!!

Awesome work Sir. I personally like the slip road, gives us older fellas a chance to get back with the fast fellas before we get back to the pits.......Now if you could do something permanant in fixing the "slip" road between ash-vegas and woodville then your status will be promoted to legendary.
As you were.....

[Billy]

Now if you could do something permanant in fixing the "slip" road between ash-vegas and woodville then your status will be promoted to legendary.
As you were.....

Err,Why would anybody spend time and good money fixing the road from "Nowhere" to "Nowhere else" ???Might as well just stay home :killingme

[gixerracer]

Im getting a bit fucked off at the little digs at me regarding the slip road. Yeah ok you might think my safety concern is humorous or not common sense. Nice way to encourage people to come forward about safety concerns though, top notch!

Tuffen up princess:girlfight:

[scracha]

If you fucked Sue or someone from the track off, you could be tresspassed I suppose.


You should reword that...or you'd get a lot worse than a trespass notice.

[CHOPPA]

Tuffen up princess:girlfight:

Its like fighting with your hands tied mate, the last time that happened someone got head butt hahaha The time before that I got the shit beaten out of me lol

[Shaun]

Im getting a bit fucked off at the little digs at me regarding the slip road. Yeah ok you might think my safety concern is humorous or not common sense. Nice way to encourage people to come forward about safety concerns though, top notch!




ya 3908 posts say ya love it on here dude

[Drew]

ya 3908 posts say ya love it on here dude

Will you be updating that post every time he makes another post, to keep it accurate?

[CHOPPA]

ya 3908 posts say ya love it on here dude

For sure I do mate, im just not gonna get stuck into anything political so I dont upset anyone but its hard to bite ya tongue sometimes, specially for me!

[codgyoleracer]

Its like fighting with your hands tied mate, the last time that happened someone got head butt hahaha The time before that I got the shit beaten out of me lol

Just keep your nose out of other peoples business Chop, they all know exactly what their doing and dont need anyone elses help (add just a whiff of sarcasm about now........)

The problem for you was that you were both involved in an incident & made comment on same.

For me, when i was asked about the issue off this forum, i said " If i had two choices, and i had to vote on using one exit option or another, the standard track exit would get my vote". This doesnt mean that either one is perfect , or that either one is particularily dodgy but given a choice i would tend toward the main standard track exit.

Like you though - I'll happly use either as instructed by club protocol on the day as it is set.

[Drew]

At "mothers day" race meeting, the trick was to cross the line and then catch up with the next bike you were gonna lap before the slip road. They hadn't been given a finish flag yet so the marshal didn't try and stand on the track, what with them still going for gold so to speak.

Just try that next time Chop chop.

[Shaun]

For sure I do mate, im just not gonna get stuck into anything political so I dont upset anyone but its hard to bite ya tongue sometimes, specially for me!



haha try being short with red hair and big ears then:brick:

[Shaun]

Will you be updating that post every time he makes another post, to keep it accurate?


nah man, I will leave that to you, it may give you some thing constructive to do with yourself

[Drew]

nah man, I will leave that to you, it may give you some thing constructive to do with yourself

I don't do, "constructive".

[Shaun]

I don't do, "constructive".




No Kidding, shock horror

[Drew]

No Kidding, shock horrorSarcasm I do. I see you're trying, but more practice, you'll get there little fella.:clap:

[proudwanker]

Im getting a bit fucked off at the little digs at me regarding the slip road. Yeah ok you might think my safety concern is humorous or not common sense. Nice way to encourage people to come forward about safety concerns though, top notch!

Does it really matter? Haters are haters... What matters is that the appropriate people above listen and give it serious thought.
Personally I think it doesnt matter if your right or wrong its that fact you had the balls to speak your mind!

[Biggles08]

Personally I think it doesnt matter if your right or right its that fact you had the balls to speak your mind!

LOL...doesn't give many options right there! You sound like someone else I know!

[Billy]

LOL...doesn't give many options right there! You sound like someone else I know!

Yip,Same,Doesn't hurt to back yourself up now and then aye!

[proudwanker]

LOL...doesn't give many options right there! You sound like someone else I know!

Haha fixed!

[JayRacer37]

To be honest, the more I think about this the more I agree with Chop...not so much from a safety point of view in that I expect bikes to be coming across this point out of control as I think that is not likely unless you have Mr Sheriff's doing the out of control, but more that it would then be standardised - everyone knows you do a full warm down lap then return to the pits. As seen during the aborted F1 start last weekend, the marshall got the call to put us through the slip road too late and basically ran on track with bikes going quickly and expecting to do a full lap - there were various speeds and levels of confusion in just that 5 sec period. That Chappy said he experienced the same and it actually put him off the tarmac to me suggests that until we have a marshalling structure that is formalised and full time (read, never) - not that I am digging on our volenteers as they do a great job - it's just that at a traffic control level on track we need a very high standard which that point at the hairpin really requires. Andrew/Skunk has a good overview and can see a lot from the control tower, but not everything, and to me that's where that decision making ability is needed at track level. This is also required now for the flag at end of pitlane, and more than once already that flag and the start/finish one haven't agreed (as far as I have been told anyway). To me, it is best to take that decision away, and make everyone do a full lap, even if it does cost a little time...

Also, I'm riding an R1 and they DON'T cool when standing still, so I could do without that wait...:shutup:

[MSTRS]

At the risk of being contentious....
The start was red flagged, and you were all waved through. "Everyone" knows that a return to pitlane is the order of the day when a race is red flagged. Well, I say 'everyone' - Chopper was still the only 'everyone' :shifty:

[discodan]

At the risk of being contentious....
The start was red flagged, and you were all waved through. "Everyone" knows that a return to pitlane is the order of the day when a race is red flagged. Well, I say 'everyone' - Chopper was still the only 'everyone' :shifty:

Yep but was the race redflagged as such? There wasn't any communication with the riders as to what they were supposed to do. The safest option was to return to pitlane but from the side lines it looked like they were being signaled to do another warmup lap and grid up again.

In then end I dont think anyone was at fault and fortunately it all ended without incident. On the bright side, it gives us a chance to rectify a crack in the starting procedure. Perhaps if the throat slitting motion was used by the starter to signify that the start has been aborted and the circular motion with a finger in the air was used to signify a second warmup lap?

[The Chow]

Yep but was the race redflagged as such? There wasn't any communication with the riders as to what they were supposed to do. The safest option was to return to pitlane but from the side lines it looked like they were being signaled to do another warmup lap and grid up again.

In then end I dont think anyone was at fault and fortunately it all ended without incident. On the bright side, it gives us a chance to rectify a crack in the starting procedure. Perhaps if the throat slitting motion was used by the starter to signify that the start has been aborted and the circular motion with a finger in the air was used to signify a second warmup lap?

It did seem strange watching it online , however as I was not there I will not pass an opinion on what did and didn't happen.

Just a thought , may be too many people in the control tower while Skunk and co are trying to make decisions , maybe the non-essential personal should not be allowed in the race control part of the tower. It some times seems real crowded in there. And heaps of talking , maybe the race control guys need to have a more controlled area for them. Just a thought thats all. Over and out.

[jellywrestler]

the marshall got the call to put us through the slip road too late

Doesn't matter a toss the RED FLAG instructions in the programme clearly says you must use the slip road.
Everybody should've been riding around at a pace expecting to use the slip road and had their hand up, or leg out accordingly.

This simply highlighted the fact that pretty well no-one on the track had bothered to read the riders briefing didn't it?????

[Biggles08]

Doesn't matter a toss the RED FLAG instructions in the programme clearly says you must use the slip road.
Everybody should've been riding around at a pace expecting to use the slip road and had their hand up, or leg out accordingly.

This simply highlighted the fact that pretty well no-one on the track had bothered to read the riders briefing didn't it?????

Hindsight....from my point of view is a wonderful thing! At the time when we were waved away from the grid as an aborted start, I "presumed" it was to do an extra warm-up lap and off I went for another lap to line up again on the grid (as did most of the others). However, after the fact I realized that the track had RED FLAGS everywhere on that "warm-up lap" meaning we should have returned to the dummy grid (off the track). If it was another warmup lap to be re-gridded there would have been YELLOW flags out at the points. I made a mistake in this instance and I have taken this as a learning experience and it won't happen again.

Lesson out of this...if a RED FLAG is EVER shown on the track (racing or not) you should return to the dummy grid for further instructions.

With regards to the slip road use, I'm not convinced about the safty of its use in circumstances such as what happened in this instance and maybe a rule such as "if a start is aborted then use an entire lap before returning to the grid or the dummy grid depending on the flags shown." This would stop any confusion and only use the slip road at the end of a race to save time.

My 2c anyway.

[jellywrestler]

With regards to the slip road use, I'm not convinced about the safty of its use in circumstances such as what happened in this instance and maybe a rule such as "if a start is aborted then use an entire lap before returning to the grid or the dummy grid depending on the flags shown." This would stop any confusion and only use the slip road at the end of a race to save time.

My 2c anyway.

then there's confusion, one rule for all incidents involving a red flag, then there's NO CONFUSION

[Billy]

Doesn't matter a toss the RED FLAG instructions in the programme clearly says you must use the slip road.


This simply highlighted the fact that pretty well no-one on the track had bothered to read the riders briefing didn't it?????


Hindsight....from my point of view is a wonderful thing! At the time when we were waved away from the grid as an aborted start, I "presumed" it was to do an extra warm-up lap and off I went for another lap to line up again on the grid (as did most of the others). However, after the fact I realized that the track had RED FLAGS everywhere on that "warm-up lap" meaning we should have returned to the dummy grid (off the track). If it was another warmup lap to be re-gridded there would have been YELLOW flags out at the points. I made a mistake in this instance and I have taken this as a learning experience and it won't happen again.

Lesson out of this...if a RED FLAG is EVER shown on the track (racing or not) you should return to the dummy grid for further instructions.

With regards to the slip road use, I'm not convinced about the safty of its use in circumstances such as what happened in this instance and maybe a rule such as "if a start is aborted then use an entire lap before returning to the grid or the dummy grid depending on the flags shown." This would stop any confusion and only use the slip road at the end of a race to save time.

My 2c anyway.

And right there I see the problem,NO supplementary regs or riders briefing may contradict the rulebook,As I have not seen the said riders briefing in the program,I cannot comment further,BUT if it contradicts the rulebook then it needs to be changed immediately,Rule 22.7.1,All competitors still running will continue on the current lap at a safe considerably reduced speed to the pits,The riders briefing mentioned above is NOT something I signed off on in the supp regs supplied too me.

[Drew]

One rule for every track. A red flagged race ALWAYS means continue right round the circuit slowly and form up in the pit lane dummy grid.

The confusion I'm reading about here is caused solely by Vic club as far as I've read.

I feel there is no recourse on riders doing what we are all meant to be fluent in, the rule boom.

[Billy]

One rule for every track. A red flagged race ALWAYS means continue right round the circuit slowly and form up in the pit lane dummy grid.

The confusion I'm reading about here is caused solely by Vic club as far as I've read.

I feel there is no recourse on riders doing what we are all meant to be fluent in, the rule boom.

Bingo as I stated above,Will contact them tonight,Also its rule book not BOOM,Dont want to confuse them further LOL

[codgyoleracer]

It did seem strange watching it online , however as I was not there I will not pass an opinion on what did and didn't happen.

Just a thought , may be too many people in the control tower while Skunk and co are trying to make decisions , maybe the non-essential personal should not be allowed in the race control part of the tower. It some times seems real crowded in there. And heaps of talking , maybe the race control guys need to have a more controlled area for them. Just a thought thats all. Over and out.

Agreed, do you wanna volunteer to be the bouncer on the door Ian ?

[codgyoleracer]

Bingo as I stated above,Will contact them tonight,Also its rule book not BOOM,Dont want to confuse them further LOL

Geez Billy , you havent perchance found something on KB to take note of have you ?, Nice spotting of that spelling mistake too, - totally unaaceptable......... :-)

[Skunk]

The rule book does indeed say a full lap is required under red flag. Seems silly to me to make everyone ride through the incident when it can be avoided but that's the rule.

Several things are clear after Saturday:
1. Not everyone listened at Riders Briefing. :bash:
2. Not everyone knows the rule book. (There should have been questions if they did :) )
3. Even officials get it wrong. :shutup:

I am at fault for part of the mess on Saturday. In hindsight it was unclear to the riders (perfectly clear to me... I knew what I wanted and was saying on the radio. That didn't translate well into hand signals unfortunately). Lesson learnt.

We have been saying that with a red flag to use the slip road if possible. Our reasons are to clear half the track so we can get at the incident promptly (should it be in that part of the circuit). Does anyone really want to ride past what may be a nasty incident and (maybe) hold up the ambulance?

We will be reviewing the practice of the slip road use. We will NOT use it with RED FLAG incidents. I would like to continue to use it at the end of races simply because we can fit more in the programme. The flag marshal at Point Four should not go onto the track. I can't tell if they do or not sometimes due to the sun and the camber. They should stop near the edge of the track. As I said we are going to review it and this may or may not change.

But we CANNOT use the slip road with a RED FLAG incident.

Jay: Most of the marshal's are trained and qualified. Sometimes the communication is suspect. There was a lot going on over the radio and it was hard to tell who was saying what. That's why it looked like there was trouble with the gate etc...
As of October 2012 (just over a month) we can't use unqualified marshals in a flag point. And we don't have enough qualified marshals. And there's no training until sometime around July-November next year. I'm not sure how to get around that yet for Bridgestone Winter Series 2013 and all the other events we've booked such as Track Days, Nationals etc. :eek5:

[Drew]

The rule book does indeed say a full lap is required under red flag. Seems silly to me to make everyone ride through the incident when it can be avoided but that's the rule.

Several things are clear after Saturday:
1. Not everyone listened at Riders Briefing. :bash:
2. Not everyone knows the rule book. (There should have been questions if they did :) )
3. Even officials get it wrong. :shutup:

I am at fault for part of the mess on Saturday. In hindsight it was unclear to the riders (perfectly clear to me... I knew what I wanted and was saying on the radio. That didn't translate well into hand signals unfortunately). Lesson learnt.

We have been saying that with a red flag to use the slip road if possible. Our reasons are to clear half the track so we can get at the incident promptly (should it be in that part of the circuit). Does anyone really want to ride past what may be a nasty incident and (maybe) hold up the ambulance?

We will be reviewing the practice of the slip road use. We will NOT use it with RED FLAG incidents. I would like to continue to use it at the end of races simply because we can fit more in the programme. The flag marshal at Point Four should not go onto the track. I can't tell if they do or not sometimes due to the sun and the camber. They should stop near the edge of the track. As I said we are going to review it and this may or may not change.

But we CANNOT use the slip road with a RED FLAG incident.

Jay: Most of the marshal's are trained and qualified. Sometimes the communication is suspect. There was a lot going on over the radio and it was hard to tell who was saying what. That's why it looked like there was trouble with the gate etc...
As of October 2012 (just over a month) we can't use unqualified marshals in a flag point. And we don't have enough qualified marshals. And there's no training until sometime around July-November next year. I'm not sure how to get around that yet for Bridgestone Winter Series 2013 and all the other events we've booked such as Track Days, Nationals etc. :eek5:No one is attacking you, don't get defensive.

Re riding past the the incedent. It happens everywhere else.

Re the marshal qualifications. I am shocked that MNZ have introduced a rule that is less than introduced something that hasn't been entirely thought out. Why bring a rule about not being allowed to flag without qualifications, and then offer no way to get qualified till AFTER the nats are finished? Fuckin dumb I reckon.

[Kiwi Graham]

As of October 2012 (just over a month) we can't use unqualified marshals in a flag point. And we don't have enough qualified marshals. And there's no training until sometime around July-November next year. I'm not sure how to get around that yet for Bridgestone Winter Series 2013 and all the other events we've booked such as Track Days, Nationals etc. :eek5:

PM sent Skunk

[Drew]

PM sent SkunkTo those of us not getting a PM, this looks a lot like..."We've fucked up, lets talk about it in private".

Ideal since poor ol' Skunk is hanging out to dry with the red flag/slip road issue.

[Kiwi Graham]

To those of us not getting a PM, this looks a lot like..."We've fucked up, lets talk about it in private".

Ideal since poor ol' Skunk is hanging out to dry with the red flag/slip road issue.

No not at all Drew,

I was advising Skunk how we (AMCC) have managed to arrange a Flaggies seminar/training at our club rooms for those that didn't make the pre arranged dates sorted by MNZ.

For all clubs out there just get in touch with MNZ and see what can be sorted.

At the end of the day its two hours taken to get everybody accredited/qualified.

[Drew]

No not at all Drew,


At the end of the day its two hours taken to get everybody accredited/qualified.My bad.

I really have no idea why you guys do what ya do, fuck if I'd give up so much time for arseholes like me to poke sticks at.

Sick cunts!

[Billy]

No not at all Drew,

I was advising Skunk how we (AMCC) have managed to arrange a Flaggies seminar/training at our club rooms for those that didn't make the pre arranged dates sorted by MNZ.

For all clubs out there just get in touch with MNZ and see what can be sorted.

At the end of the day its two hours taken to get everybody accredited/qualified.

OR if Skunk was to visit the MNZ website,He would see that additional officials training has been organised for the 15th of September in Palmerston North,To cater for those who are short of marshalls

[suzuki21]

To be honest, the more I think about this the more I agree with Chop...not so much from a safety point of view in that I expect bikes to be coming across this point out of control as I think that is not likely unless you have Mr Sheriff's doing the out of control, but more that it would then be standardised - everyone knows you do a full warm down lap then return to the pits. As seen during the aborted F1 start last weekend, the marshall got the call to put us through the slip road too late and basically ran on track with bikes going quickly and expecting to do a full lap - there were various speeds and levels of confusion in just that 5 sec period. That Chappy said he experienced the same and it actually put him off the tarmac to me suggests that until we have a marshalling structure that is formalised and full time (read, never) - not that I am digging on our volenteers as they do a great job - it's just that at a traffic control level on track we need a very high standard which that point at the hairpin really requires. Andrew/Skunk has a good overview and can see a lot from the control tower, but not everything, and to me that's where that decision making ability is needed at track level. This is also required now for the flag at end of pitlane, and more than once already that flag and the start/finish one haven't agreed (as far as I have been told anyway). To me, it is best to take that decision away, and make everyone do a full lap, even if it does cost a little time...

Also, I'm riding an R1 and they DON'T cool when standing still, so I could do without that wait...:shutup:

Ask Robbie Bugden if its just R1's that do that Jay!

[Skunk]

No one is attacking you, don't get defensive.

Re riding past the the incedent. It happens everywhere else.

Re the marshal qualifications. I am shocked that MNZ have introduced a rule that is less than introduced something that hasn't been entirely thought out. Why bring a rule about not being allowed to flag without qualifications, and then offer no way to get qualified till AFTER the nats are finished? Fuckin dumb I reckon.

Hey Drew, not getting defensive at all. Just admitting a mistake has been make and trying to make it clear what will happen in future. Safety is the key here.

[Skunk]

OR if Skunk was to visit the MNZ website,He would see that additional officials training has been organised for the 15th of September in Palmerston North,To cater for those who are short of marshalls

So there is! I will pass this info on. Would have been better having it at Manfield on the Saturday of our two day meeting but we can't have everything.

[slowpoke]

The rule book does indeed say a full lap is required under red flag. Seems silly to me to make everyone ride through the incident when it can be avoided but that's the rule.

Several things are clear after Saturday:
1. Not everyone listened at Riders Briefing. :bash:
2. Not everyone knows the rule book. (There should have been questions if they did :) )
3. Even officials get it wrong. :shutup:

I am at fault for part of the mess on Saturday. In hindsight it was unclear to the riders (perfectly clear to me... I knew what I wanted and was saying on the radio. That didn't translate well into hand signals unfortunately). Lesson learnt.

We have been saying that with a red flag to use the slip road if possible. Our reasons are to clear half the track so we can get at the incident promptly (should it be in that part of the circuit). Does anyone really want to ride past what may be a nasty incident and (maybe) hold up the ambulance?

We will be reviewing the practice of the slip road use. We will NOT use it with RED FLAG incidents. I would like to continue to use it at the end of races simply because we can fit more in the programme. The flag marshal at Point Four should not go onto the track. I can't tell if they do or not sometimes due to the sun and the camber. They should stop near the edge of the track. As I said we are going to review it and this may or may not change.

But we CANNOT use the slip road with a RED FLAG incident.

Jay: Most of the marshal's are trained and qualified. Sometimes the communication is suspect. There was a lot going on over the radio and it was hard to tell who was saying what. That's why it looked like there was trouble with the gate etc...
As of October 2012 (just over a month) we can't use unqualified marshals in a flag point. And we don't have enough qualified marshals. And there's no training until sometime around July-November next year. I'm not sure how to get around that yet for Bridgestone Winter Series 2013 and all the other events we've booked such as Track Days, Nationals etc. :eek5:

Hey Andrew, don't take it to heart eh? You and your crew do a great job considering you are basically trying to herd cats (racers) all day long.

FYI, I work in a noisy industry/environment where radio comm's are our primary means of communication and woopsy's at best result in "oh fuck" moments but at worst it's Piper Alpha/BP's Gulf of Mexico all over again. Ian's onto a good thing with controlling your environment, gawd knows we've had some shit go down and it's just complicated (or worse, missed altogether) when a group of blokes are yuckin' it up in the background. It takes a bit of discipline from the folks in the field too: if it concerns you you'll either know what's going on or the controller will speak/radio to you directly. It doesn't help if 5 people are offering different solutions and the other 5 are asking what's going on. The guy in the big chair has the big picture, so needs to be given radio space to make whatever is wrong right again.

Sorry, don't mean to tell you how to suck eggs, I wasn't even there. I just know we drill/exercise stuff every second week offshore and 9 years down the track we still get learnings coming out, so it's gonna be even harder for you and your stirling band of volunteers only getting together every so often. At the end of the day you've had a great learning opportunity where nobody was hurt so just take what you can from it and keep up the good work.

[The Chow]

Hey Andrew, don't take it to heart eh? You and your crew do a great job considering you are basically trying to herd cats (racers) all day long.

FYI, I work in a noisy industry/environment where radio comm's are our primary means of communication and woopsy's at best result in "oh fuck" moments but at worst it's Piper Alpha/BP's Gulf of Mexico all over again. Ian's onto a good thing with controlling your environment, gawd knows we've had some shit go down and it's just complicated (or worse, missed altogether) when a group of blokes are yuckin' it up in the background. It takes a bit of discipline from the folks in the field too: if it concerns you you'll either know what's going on or the controller will speak/radio to you directly. It doesn't help if 5 people are offering different solutions and the other 5 are asking what's going on. The guy in the big chair has the big picture, so needs to be given radio space to make whatever is wrong right again.

Sorry, don't mean to tell you how to suck eggs, I wasn't even there. I just know we drill/exercise stuff every second week offshore and 9 years down the track we still get learnings coming out, so it's gonna be even harder for you and your stirling band of volunteers only getting together every so often. At the end of the day you've had a great learning opportunity where nobody was hurt so just take what you can from it and keep up the good work.

Slowpoke couldn't agree more (hell thats not right, is it?) LOL:yes:

[yungatart]

T


As of October 2012 (just over a month) we can't use unqualified marshals in a flag point. And we don't have enough qualified marshals. And there's no training until sometime around July-November next year. I'm not sure how to get around that yet for Bridgestone Winter Series 2013 and all the other events we've booked such as Track Days, Nationals etc. :eek5:

Surely 1 qualified marshal per point, with an unqualified/in training marshal, would suffice at this stage, especially since qualified marshals are relatively new in the scheme of things.

[JayRacer37]

Doesn't matter a toss the RED FLAG instructions in the programme clearly says you must use the slip road.
Everybody should've been riding around at a pace expecting to use the slip road and had their hand up, or leg out accordingly.

This simply highlighted the fact that pretty well no-one on the track had bothered to read the riders briefing didn't it?????

As far as I was concerned, at that point (with me, myself and I) in my helmet, it wasn't a red flag situation as we had had no incident, it was another lap to reform a grid. Now, in the past (and this is now a number of years ago) that was the norm - re-do the lap, grid up, get a good start together and away we go.


And right there I see the problem,NO supplementary regs or riders briefing may contradict the rulebook,As I have not seen the said riders briefing in the program,I cannot comment further,BUT if it contradicts the rulebook then it needs to be changed immediately,Rule 22.7.1,All competitors still running will continue on the current lap at a safe considerably reduced speed to the pits,The riders briefing mentioned above is NOT something I signed off on in the supp regs supplied too me.


One rule for every track. A red flagged race ALWAYS means continue right round the circuit slowly and form up in the pit lane dummy grid.

I feel there is no recourse on riders doing what we are all meant to be fluent in, the rule book.


The rule book does indeed say a full lap is required under red flag. Seems silly to me to make everyone ride through the incident when it can be avoided but that's the rule.

Several things are clear after Saturday:
1. Not everyone listened at Riders Briefing. :bash:
2. Not everyone knows the rule book. (There should have been questions if they did :) )
3. Even officials get it wrong. :shutup:

I am at fault for part of the mess on Saturday. In hindsight it was unclear to the riders (perfectly clear to me... I knew what I wanted and was saying on the radio. That didn't translate well into hand signals unfortunately). Lesson learnt.

We have been saying that with a red flag to use the slip road if possible. Our reasons are to clear half the track so we can get at the incident promptly (should it be in that part of the circuit). Does anyone really want to ride past what may be a nasty incident and (maybe) hold up the ambulance?

We will be reviewing the practice of the slip road use. We will NOT use it with RED FLAG incidents. I would like to continue to use it at the end of races simply because we can fit more in the programme. The flag marshal at Point Four should not go onto the track. I can't tell if they do or not sometimes due to the sun and the camber. They should stop near the edge of the track. As I said we are going to review it and this may or may not change.

But we CANNOT use the slip road with a RED FLAG incident.

Jay: Most of the marshal's are trained and qualified. Sometimes the communication is suspect. There was a lot going on over the radio and it was hard to tell who was saying what. That's why it looked like there was trouble with the gate etc...
As of October 2012 (just over a month) we can't use unqualified marshals in a flag point. And we don't have enough qualified marshals. And there's no training until sometime around July-November next year. I'm not sure how to get around that yet for Bridgestone Winter Series 2013 and all the other events we've booked such as Track Days, Nationals etc. :eek5:


As I say above, I never considered it a red flag situation so my thoughts on this are unrelated to the above, but definitely a full lap is required in my head for a red flag. As much as anything, if there is carnage elsewhere, the last thing race control need is to worry about whether the rest of track is clear so they can wave a group through from the slip road. Also, with bikes at uncertain points on the track you probably can't release the ambulance until that is under control so to me it is as likely to hold the ambulance up us sitting in the middle of a field waiting for direction.



Ask Robbie Bugden if its just R1's that do that Jay!

Yeah true that, after finishing a race flat out there is a lot of heat soak and I HATE that idling and waiting...a full lap would be greatly preferable from a mechanical and cooling point of view...

[Drew]

Surely 1 qualified marshal per point, with an unqualified/in training marshal, would suffice at this stage, especially since qualified marshals are relatively new in the scheme of things.

From what I read, two hours is qualified yes? Comfy as with a noob beside a noob+2 hours. :facepalm:

[Skunk]

I fully understand what you're saying Jay and I don't disagree you. So far this season we have had two riders hit the pit entry wall. In one case having the bikes in the slip road was good in that no one had to ride over the poor guy and his bike to get to pit lane!

With the other one we had the ambulance to him and the bike recovered before the race ended. Not too sure the riders even knew what had happened.

Shows that strange things can happen and no one rule will suit all. By using the slip road we can access Higgins about 40 secs earlier. Not much I know but if it was you laying there... Anyway - moot point as the rules are the rules.

One thing I would say though is that under a Red Flag you are supposed to be travelling slowly and ready for anything. So in theory there should not be a problem with the slip road. But as you say - how the hell were the riders to know it was a Red Flag situation? I knew - I called it! In hindsight I can see the confusion.

I don't think anyone did anything 'wrong' - it was just a mess. And sometimes you get that. Thankfully no damage to anyone or anything.

[Skunk]

From what I read, two hours is qualified yes? Comfy as with a noob beside a noob+2 hours. :facepalm:

What?... no understandy mister. :crazy:

[Billy]

but definitely a full lap is required in my head for a red flag. As much as anything, if there is carnage elsewhere, the last thing race control need is to worry about whether the rest of track is clear so they can wave a group through from the slip road. Also, with bikes at uncertain points on the track you probably can't release the ambulance until that is under control so to me it is as likely to hold the ambulance up us sitting in the middle of a field waiting for direction.




Couple of points in the above statement for everybody to consider,

1/ Its not whats is in your head thats required for a redflag incident,Its whats in the rulebook,Assuming everybody's read it,Then they'll all be thinking the same thing and any chance of an incident is greatly averted.

2/ Once in the slip road,EVERYBODY should stop and remain behind the whiteline until signalled its clear to cross the track,No matter how or why you ended up there,Thats the protocol,NO EXCEPTIONS,I observed at the last round a number of riders pull up between the whiteline and the edge of the track while waiting to be signalled to cross,There is a strict protocol to be followed for the use of that section and if your not sure,Ask at riders briefing or approach the riders rep for clarification,Do not enter the race control room and start asking questions while they are running the meeting.

[Drew]

What?... no understandy mister. :crazy:Someone posted that the marshall course was a two hour group session.

That isn't a lot. I know that these people are giving up there time for free, but it's for something they enjoy lets not forget, motorsport.

So someone with no actual idea, but who has talked about racing for a couple hours is now allowed to flag a point on a track. Youngatart suggests putting that squid with a complete squid and all will be hunky dori.

Doesn't sound ideal.

[MSTRS]

Someone posted that the marshall course was a two hour group session.

That isn't a lot. I know that these people are giving up there time for free, but it's for something they enjoy lets not forget, motorsport.

So someone with no actual idea, but who has talked about racing for a couple hours is now allowed to flag a point on a track. Youngatart suggests putting that squid with a complete squid and all will be hunky dori.

Doesn't sound ideal.

Actually, it is a little more than that, but you are sort of right. MNZ want to know that a marshal knows enough to do the job, so they run a day course with various tests to be passed. Assuming the person does pass, then they are MNZ-approved to man a flag point. I agree that an approved newbie will not be the best, but in the real world marshals have done some time on track before they do the MNZ course - so they do have real world experience plus the certificate, and will be able to do their job and teach actual newbies the ropes.

[Billy]

Someone posted that the marshall course was a two hour group session.

That isn't a lot. I know that these people are giving up there time for free, but it's for something they enjoy lets not forget, motorsport.

So someone with no actual idea, but who has talked about racing for a couple hours is now allowed to flag a point on a track. Youngatart suggests putting that squid with a complete squid and all will be hunky dori.

Doesn't sound ideal.


Actually, it is a little more than that, but you are sort of right. MNZ want to know that a marshal knows enough to do the job, so they run a day course with various tests to be passed. Assuming the person does pass, then they are MNZ-approved to man a flag point. I agree that an approved newbie will not be the best, but in the real world marshals have done some time on track before they do the MNZ course - so they do have real world experience plus the certificate, and will be able to do their job and teach actual newbies the ropes.

It's reasonably annoying to see that no matter what MNZ do,Its seen as being inadequate,

Slip back to circa 2000 when Tim Gibbes was running the Suzuki winter series and it was a regular occurence for him too ask for volunteers to be flag marshals at riders briefing otherwise there would be no racing or the Vic club event organised during 2003 I think it was where they were supposed to run the long circuit,But had to resort to the 3k circuit as the Feilding boy scouts hadn't turned up to flag marshal !!!! WTF.Sure the system isnt perfect,But consider the time and effort put in by Jim Tuckerman organising and running the officials training on top of the fact he also now does the same job Paul Pav did for around $100k and has to fit in somewhere a day job so he can eat,Of course you'd expect we could call on some of the expertise from Kiwibiker to volunteer their services to help make it even better yet,But no,Much easier to criticise from the comfort of a keyboard than roll up your sleeves and help out.

[MSTRS]

...Much easier to criticise from the comfort of a keyboard than roll up your sleeves and help out.

Or fuck up ontrack and blame the flag marshal/s. Yeah - everyone's an expert, but few actually want to do it

[RDjase]

Someone posted that the marshall course was a two hour group session.

That isn't a lot. I know that these people are giving up there time for free, but it's for something they enjoy lets not forget, motorsport.

So someone with no actual idea, but who has talked about racing for a couple hours is now allowed to flag a point on a track. Youngatart suggests putting that squid with a complete squid and all will be hunky dori.

Doesn't sound ideal.

There are diferent grades of marshalls, not sure how it works excatly but the more experince/tracktime/courses you get upgraded.. Yungatart and Mstrs will know how it works

[MSTRS]

Hey YT - we got at least one fooled...

[Drew]

It's reasonably annoying to see that no matter what MNZ do,Its seen as being inadequate,

Slip back to circa 2000 when Tim Gibbes was running the Suzuki winter series and it was a regular occurence for him too ask for volunteers to be flag marshals at riders briefing otherwise there would be no racing or the Vic club event organised during 2003 I think it was where they were supposed to run the long circuit,But had to resort to the 3k circuit as the Feilding boy scouts hadn't turned up to flag marshal !!!! WTF.Sure the system isnt perfect,But consider the time and effort put in by Jim Tuckerman organising and running the officials training on top of the fact he also now does the same job Paul Pav did for around $100k and has to fit in somewhere a day job so he can eat,Of course you'd expect we could call on some of the expertise from Kiwibiker to volunteer their services to help make it even better yet,But no,Much easier to criticise from the comfort of a keyboard than roll up your sleeves and help out.Get fucked the pair of ya. You wanna slam the riders for making mistakes Billy, you gotta wear it when the shoe is on the other foot.

Things are better than they were, so be happy and keep your trap shut. That's pretty fuckin weak man, and I bet you fuckin know it.

I would be of no help even if I wanted to Billy, I'd hook some cunt, get the crap beaten out of me, and have to fuck off anyway.


Or fuck up ontrack and blame the flag marshal/s. Yeah - everyone's an expert, but few actually want to do it

I don't want to marshall. I want to race. You cunts want pats on the back for what you do? OK, here's one, if you have no passion for the sport and don't enjoy being there, fuck off or charge for your services. Simple. I'll still probably do the same number of race meetings as I do now if the costs go up, so what do I fuckin care?

[Billy]

Get fucked the pair of ya. You wanna slam the riders for making mistakes Billy, you gotta wear it when the shoe is on the other foot.

Things are better than they were, so be happy and keep your trap shut. That's pretty fuckin weak man, and I bet you fuckin know it.

I would be of no help even if I wanted to Billy,

Oh yea,How is the shoe on the other foot for me????? I dont have any input at all to officials training.

"Things are better than they were,So be happy and keep your trap shut",Where did I say that???? Pretty sure I did say it wasn't perfect though

Of course its always easier to bag somebody else's efforts than try and have a positive impact by offering a sensible solution.

I believe there has been a suggestion made at officials training that at riders briefing it is stated "If you don't feel safe,Then don't ride"

[MSTRS]

... I'll still probably do the same number of race meetings as I do now ...

With that attitude, marshals won't be interested in turning up so you can race. What will you do then??
You seem to forget that 'we' can run a race meeting without anyone ever going on track...but 'you lot' can't race if there's no one to run things.

Heads up, little man. RACING IS A TEAM EFFORT. That means EVERYONE has a part to play. You, me, her, him over there - and so on. Doesn't matter if it's a rider, a mechanic, a flaggie, the ambos, MNZ rep, the people in the sign-up office, etc

Some of us are heartily sick of the swinging-dick egos who seem to think that race days are laid on just for them...

[Drew]

Oh yea,How is the shoe on the other foot for me????? I dont have any input at all to officials training.

"Things are better than they were,So be happy and keep your trap shut",Where did I say that???? Pretty sure I did say it wasn't perfect though

Of course its always easier to bag somebody else's efforts than try and have a positive impact by offering a sensible solution.

I believe there has been a suggestion made at officials training that at riders briefing it is stated "If you don't feel safe,Then don't ride"It's how I read what you said by bringing up the Tim Gibbs events.

Yeah it's better, but it's all a piss take if no one can accept that everyone needs to do their bit better.

Why don't I get involved in a positive fashion to help others? Can't imagine why else I'd be spannering for three guys who are racing. I'll do some soul searching and find the selfish reason that clearly must be there.


With that attitude, marshals won't be interested in turning up so you can race. What will you do then??
You seem to forget that 'we' can run a race meeting without anyone ever going on track...but 'you lot' can't race if there's no one to run things.

Heads up, little man. RACING IS A TEAM EFFORT. That means EVERYONE has a part to play. You, me, her, him over there - and so on. Doesn't matter if it's a rider, a mechanic, a flaggie, the ambos, MNZ rep, the people in the sign-up office, etc

Some of us are heartily sick of the swinging-dick egos who seem to think that race days are laid on just for them...

My use of the word "cunt" is not actually calling anyone that, and more just a collective term I use for nearly everyone. Exceptions would be my kids, and my mother and her sisters. So don't get all fuckin pissy and red bling about it.

I am aware what you (insert any word except cunts here) do, it is and always has been appreciated. But the threat that premadonna racers should shut up or no one will race is getting very tedius.



I'm in a foul mood today, and you are probably both right to be pissed off at the language I have employed to convey my message.

[Tony.OK]

I'm in a foul mood today, and you are probably both right to be pissed off at the language I have employed to convey my message.
How many times can ya make me pull this out bro? Haha I'm thinking lots!! :wings:

http://youtu.be/HQTJJeg3dtI

[Kickaha]

How many times can ya make me pull this out bro? Haha I'm thinking lots!!
Everytime he opens his mouth

[Billy]

I'm in a foul mood today, and you are probably both right to be pissed off at the language I have employed to convey my message.

Hahahahaha! Yea I picked up on that with the ER6 burning thing on facebook and anyway,I quite like being called a "c*#t" it means people are listening

[Drew]

Hahahahaha! Yea I picked up on that with the ER6 burning thing on facebook and anyway,I quite like being called a "c*#t" it means people are listening
The marshals are the cunts, you're just their leader!

[quickbuck]

It did seem strange watching it online , however as I was not there I will not pass an opinion on what did and didn't happen.

Just a thought , may be too many people in the control tower while Skunk and co are trying to make decisions , maybe the non-essential personal should not be allowed in the race control part of the tower. It some times seems real crowded in there. And heaps of talking , maybe the race control guys need to have a more controlled area for them. Just a thought thats all. Over and out.

I was up there... No there wasn't tpp many up there really. I left as soon as it started going pear shaped, and didn't hear about the whole incident until afterwards.

[yungatart]

The marshals are the cunts, you're just their leader!

Wrong, I'm their leader!

And apparently I look like a fool...

[Drew]

Wrong, I'm their leader!

And apparently I look like a fool...how do you figure?
You'd be a scarier leader with some tats like Billy.

[yungatart]

how do you figure?
You'd be a scarier leader with some tats like Billy.

Only cos I am the chief flaggie...

How do you know I don't have tats like Billy?

[Drew]

Only cos I am the chief flaggie...

How do you know I don't have tats like Billy?because Billy can't hide his.

[Billy]

because Billy can't hide his.

Actually,You havent seen half of them and some you never will hahahaha!

[Drew]

Actually,You havent seen half of them and some you never will hahahaha!
I know, only the ones on hands arms and face. But Janet doesn't have them.

[yungatart]

I may have, just hidden under my clothes...you, Drew, will never know...:innocent:

[Skunk]

So someone with no actual idea, but who has talked about racing for a couple hours is now allowed to flag a point on a track. Youngatart suggests putting that squid with a complete squid and all will be hunky dori.

Doesn't sound ideal.And your idea is?... Carry on as we were when you were racing? Zero training. Mint.

Having just spent 9am until 5:30pm doing my refresher I'm a little pissed off at your comments Drew.
You seem to have very little idea on what a flag marshals role is. Two hours is plenty for what they need to know. I have no idea what you think they need to know. Are you confusing Flag Marshals with Grid Marshals? Or Environmental Officers? Or Race Organisers? Or Stewards? All have different requirements.

Two hours is for flag marshals is around two hours longer than the training session for riders. :blink:

The Flag Marshals know their job. To say it's not enough without knowing what is covered is a bullshit comment.

[slowpoke]

Credit where credit is due, good on MNZ for organising ANY training for ANYBODY, it's gotta be a big step in the right direction, eh?

It's always been a bit of a mystery to me why more people aren't willing to marshall. The couple of times I got involved before getting on track I thought it was the absolute best seat in the house and was a bit of a life changer really. With relocating to Oz, no money, and working at various shitholes out in the bush, bikes had fallen off the radar for 15 odd years until my missus started a new job and one of the young blokes was starting bike racing. She was invited along (ASBK meeting, Tony Rees was racing) while I was out at one of the aforementioned shitholes, got roped in, had a great time and next time I went along too. Standing on the tyre wall at the Wanneroo/Barbagallo "basin" (popular crash spot, I was in the retrieval team with intructions:"do not touch the brake rotors!") and hearing/watching the superbikes come over the hill for the first time was something pretty special. My poor missus has probably regretted it ever since 'cos that very moment was the start of a very slippery slope.

It's one more thing to do I guess, but how about getting somebody to write up a "marshall's race day report" for the VMCC Oily Rag? And/or KB? Put a positive spin on it and see if you can't get a few more people comin' outta the woodwork.

Just out of interest, how many people does it take to officiate/marshall the average club meeting?

[roadracingoldfart]

Ok , its now page 7 and there is no resolve...... let me summerise.

Billy is a cunt ,
Drew is a younger less inked up cunt ,
There is a head flag marshall that will neither confirm of deny if she has more ink than the first cunt,
The smelly Skunky one is not being blamed for screwing up for a change but still had a moment of denial to the second cunt,
MNZ are really just an organisation that can make a qualified cunt in just 2 hours,
A red flag as far as i know has no connection directly with a cunt ,
Just one thing left ....... whats a slip road ???:innocent: :bye:

[Billy]

Ok , its now page 7 and there is no resolve...... let me summerise.

Billy is a cunt ,
Drew is a younger less inked up cunt ,
There is a head flag marshall that will neither confirm of deny if she has more ink than the first cunt,
The smelly Skunky one is not being blamed for screwing up for a change but still had a moment of denial to the second cunt,
MNZ are really just an organisation that can make a qualified cunt in just 2 hours,
A red flag as far as i know has no connection directly with a cunt ,
Just one thing left ....... whats a slip road ???:innocent: :bye:

There was never anything to resolve,The slip road has been deemed as safe to use,So long as the correct protocol is applied,

Drew has stated categorically that I am not a cunt(Much to my dismay)
It has never been mentioned that Drew was a cunt(YET)
The headflag marshall has promised to do a striptease act at riders briefing for round 5 so we can confirm no ink has been used,
Skunk had a shower this morning and is no longer a smelly cunt,
MNZ do not qualify cunts,You have to be one before you can be accepted into the purple circle,
A slip road is the road that leads to the slippery slope you are now on,
But your right the red flag at this point has no connection with any cunt.

[Drew]

I'm a little pissed off at your comments Drew.
That was the point.

I wasn't aware that the training was different for the different jobs you all do actually, I figured you all just did your two hours and off we went.

I'm only chucking my oar in to be a wanker. The whole scene makes me fuckin near homicidal with all the bitching and in fighting. Yeah, everyone is a cunt, riders, flaggies, pit bitches like me, grid marshals, race controlers, and hot dog makers...Well, maybe not the hot dog makers. They can carry on as usual.

[Drew]

There was never anything to resolve,The slip road has been deemed as safe to use,So long as the correct protocol is applied,

Drew has stated categorically that I am not a cunt(Much to my dismay)
It has never been mentioned that Drew was a cunt(YET)
The headflag marshall has promised to do a striptease act at riders briefing for round 5 so we can confirm no ink has been used,
Skunk had a shower this morning and is no longer a smelly cunt,
MNZ do not qualify cunts,You have to be one before you can be accepted into the purple circle,
A slip road is the road that leads to the slippery slope you are now on,
But your right the red flag at this point has no connection with any cunt.
Yeah it has, John called me a cunt in my red bling.

I don't believe Skunk had a shower. Pictures or it didn't happen! Wait, never mind I'll take your word for it.

MNZ aren't all cunts, that chick in the office is pretty tidy, and nice and friendly.

I was on a slippery road as soon as I said my first words

Flag marshals are cunts like the rest of us.


BILLY, YOU'RE A CUNT!

[Drew]

I'll do the course if it's ever run in Wellington, and then flag for a day. Just don't put me with one of those Napier native cunts.

[MSTRS]

I'll do the course if it's ever run in Wellington, and then flag for a day. Just don't put me with one of those Napier native cunts.

Scared we'd give you the Learn? And that is Learn - with a capital...
And there's another thing you're wrong on - we're not native to HB. We just chose to live here. Bwahahaha!!!
:innocent:

[Drew]

Scared we'd give you the Learn? And that is Learn - with a capital...
And there's another thing you're wrong on - we're not native to HB. We just chose to live here. Bwahahaha!!!
:innocent:You don't scare me! Except whe you follow my into the toilets.

[Drew]

I may have, just hidden under my clothes...you, Drew, will never know...:innocent:How do you hide tats on your hands and face, with clothes? I've never seen you wearing a burka.

[roadracingoldfart]

A slip road is the road that leads to the slippery slope you are now on,



Mate , ya wrong on sooo many points , I have been in the shit with ACU / MNZ since i smacked Erroll in 1991 and that means i am not new to the situation. Slippery slopes are fun and if i have always enjoyed the scenery along the way.

Have a lovely fathers day anyway you old bastard.

[Billy]

Have a lovely fathers day anyway you old bastard.

For the last time,I'm NOT your father !!!

[Drew]

For the last time,I'm NOT your father !!!DNA tests are required, Paul is fuckin old, but you and father time did play together as kids so it's a possibility for sure.

[Tony.OK]

Just don't put me with one of those Napier native cunts.

HEY!!!


And to think I let you bring alcohol into my house so I could drink it for free........:pinch:

[Drew]

HEY!!!


And to think I let you bring alcohol into my house so I could drink it for free........:pinch:

I came to see your missus, the booze was to get your cripple arse out of the picture!

[Tony.OK]

I came to see your missus, the booze was to get your cripple arse out of the picture!

Hahaahaaaa............ya silly cock.......oops, cunt, I'dve let ya take her for free!!

[yungatart]

The headflag marshall has promised to do a striptease act at riders briefing for round 5 so we can confirm no ink has been used,

Umm, that will probably be Richard or Nigel then, do these guys know that they are doing a striptease? And is it instead of, or additional to, Marshals' briefing?

[Biggles08]

Two hours is for flag marshals is around two hours longer than the training session for riders. :blink:

Boom! Ain't that just crazy!?! I still can't get over that to road race at the very top level in NZ (Nationals) you can rock up with a bike, pay your MNZ fees for a licence and say you are there to race...with no check ride or training at all! It all seemed a bit odd that this was the case when Phil Harrison and Derek Hill (RIP) had that accident at Pukekohe...Phil was 'just' out of racing clubmans with very limited track experience when he entered to race in that Nationals round. I was talking to him 1 week prior to that over a beer...

I realize this is very much on the radar of MNZ Billy and I believe it can't change soon enough.

[Skunk]

Ok , its now page 7 and there is no resolve.Since when did ANYTHING get resolved on KB? :corn::brick:

[Drew]

Since when did ANYTHING get resolved on KB? :corn::brick:

So, why would anything I say upset you?

It's not gonna get sorted on here, no one on here will say any of this shit in person, except I will call you a cunt in person...Cunt. And Choppa will say the same shit no matter the forum.

[yungatart]

Since when did ANYTHING get resolved on KB? :corn::brick:

I don't understand that, eh.
The place is full of keyboard warriors, bush lawyers and armchair experts so how come nothing gets sorted?
Quite bizarre

[Drew]

I don't understand that, eh.
The place is full of keyboard warriors, bush lawyers and armchair experts so how come nothing gets sorted?
Quite bizarre

We're all distracted thinking about you taking clothes off and showing us your sweet tats.

[yungatart]

We're all distracted thinking about you taking clothes off and showing us your sweet tats.

Did you miss this one Drew?


Umm, that will probably be Richard or Nigel then, do these guys know that they are doing a striptease? And is it instead of, or additional to, Marshals' briefing?

I won't be there....it will be some other tits (oops, I mean tats) that you'll be ogling

[Drew]

Did you miss this one Drew?



I won't be there....it will be some other tits (oops, I mean tats) that you'll be oglingI'm all about the typey typey, not so much the reading!

[ellipsis]

...well...that was that...

[SWERVE]

Someone posted that the marshall course was a two hour group session.

That isn't a lot. I know that these people are giving up there time for free, but it's for something they enjoy lets not forget, motorsport.

So someone with no actual idea, but who has talked about racing for a couple hours is now allowed to flag a point on a track. Youngatart suggests putting that squid with a complete squid and all will be hunky dori.

Doesn't sound ideal.

Drew.
I agree with alot of your posts (sometimes have to read between the lines)............BUT
When you took you driving licence test(pressuming you have one - cos its not uncommon for NZ,ers of 20 years driving to not have) did they teach you everything you needed to know to see you through the rest of your driving life...........NO.
Same as Marshalls...... any training is better than none........ its the fundementals (clutch brake throttle) not the unforseen.
I have seen motorsport from just about every angle/volenteer position/racer/team manager/tech etc etc and with every "team" everybody does their job to the best of their ability most of the time............. but rely on everybody else getting it right too.
I agree with both sides of the arguement on many levels.
My proposed Junior team/development project includes all participants becoming flag marshalls as part of their contract. To be aware of how it works and how important it is .
In the modern era of compotas etc.............. they still teach semaphore in he Navy (communcation via flags) simplest methods have stood the test of time.
(Oh sorry...i thought you said launch (start) not abort (stop).............. she,ll be alright its only a small country we have just destroyed !!!!!!!!

[Drew]

Drew.
I agree with alot of your posts (sometimes have to read between the lines)............BUT
When you took you driving licence test(pressuming you have one - cos its not uncommon for NZ,ers of 20 years driving to not have) did they teach you everything you needed to know to see you through the rest of your driving life...........NO.
Same as Marshalls...... any training is better than none........ its the fundementals (clutch brake throttle) not the unforseen.
I have seen motorsport from just about every angle/volenteer position/racer/team manager/tech etc etc and with every "team" everybody does their job to the best of their ability most of the time............. but rely on everybody else getting it right too.
I agree with both sides of the arguement on many levels.
My proposed Junior team/development project includes all participants becoming flag marshalls as part of their contract. To be aware of how it works and how important it is .
In the modern era of compotas etc.............. they still teach semaphore in he Navy (communcation via flags) simplest methods have stood the test of time.
(Oh sorry...i thought you said launch (start) not abort (stop).............. she,ll be alright its only a small country we have just destroyed !!!!!!!!Drivers lisence is a bad paralell to draw for me, I have MASSIVE issues on the piss poor standard we are allowed loose on the streets at.

That said, you're right about all the rest I guess. No one can be taught about all eventualities on the track. Christ knows what that Choppa cunt will do next!

But any squid that runs out on the track in front of a superbike feild tha thinks it's doing a warm up lap would deserve to get run the fuck over, if it wouldn't kill the rider too.

What ever comes over the radio, they should have some bloody semblance of self preservation, especially if the radio chatter is as busy and unclear as Skunk has led us to believe.

[yungatart]

Just to clarify, Drew, marshals at the hairpin stand at the side of the track, not on the track.
All marshals are told at briefing that no matter the call from upstairs, if they don't feel it is safe to go on track, not to do it.

[SWERVE]

Boom! Ain't that just crazy!?! I still can't get over that to road race at the very top level in NZ (Nationals) you can rock up with a bike, pay your MNZ fees for a licence and say you are there to race...with no check ride or training at all! It all seemed a bit odd that this was the case when Phil Harrison and Derek Hill (RIP) had that accident at Pukekohe...Phil was 'just' out of racing clubmans with very limited track experience when he entered to race in that Nationals round. I was talking to him 1 week prior to that over a beer...

I realize this is very much on the radar of MNZ Billy and I believe it can't change soon enough.

Sooooooooo true mate.
Thats why other countries have tier systems for newbies............ grades /etc.......... or as the old days in UK ... Novice vests (dayglo derek vests) for newbies in any class for a certain amount of meetings. (this is also beneficial in other ways as if a vest wearer is constantly up at the pointy end ..he/she is easy to spot as a potential talant)
Its not easy to have a tier system when the participant numbers are low and everybody need to be in same race to make numbers.
However the novice vest system could be applied to make everyone aware of the situation.
If the new superstars dont want to wear an orange vest...................... in a diplomatic term...F**K OFF

Its oK to say she,ll be alright....... he/she is an experienced rider..they know what they are doing...... but if we have many more fatalities...the powers above will drop like a ton of bricks......... we eed to be proactive and prevent further incidents as much as WE can.

[Drew]

Just to clarify, Drew, marshals at the hairpin stand at the side of the track, not on the track.
All marshals are told at briefing that no matter the call from upstairs, if they don't feel it is safe to go on track, not to do it.

I've only ever seen them in the middle of the track, but it's been a year since I did a vic club meeting.

Jay did say that he came hurtling round to find a marshal standing on the track too though.

Told not to do it if it isn't safe, yet there he was. My noob comments are starting to ring more true than my antagonistic intentions realised.

[Skunk]

I've only ever seen them in the middle of the track, but it's been a year since I did a vic club meeting.

Jay did say that he came hurtling round to find a marshal standing on the track too though.

Told not to do it if it isn't safe, yet there he was. My noob comments are starting to ring more true than my antagonistic intentions realised.

I didn't think they were on the track but I can find out who it was and ask. Not really going to change what happened. And things have been put in place already to prevent any part of it happening again. As long as everybody listens. <-- and right there is the biggest single cause of things going wrong.

We're humans and therefore make mistakes. And we all have 20/20 hindsight.

[yungatart]

I've only ever seen them in the middle of the track, but it's been a year since I did a vic club meeting.

Jay did say that he came hurtling round to find a marshal standing on the track too though.

Told not to do it if it isn't safe, yet there he was. My noob comments are starting to ring more true than my antagonistic intentions realised.


I didn't think they were on the track but I can find out who it was and ask. Not really going to change what happened. And things have been put in place already to prevent any part of it happening again. As long as everybody listens. <-- and right there is the biggest single cause of things going wrong.

We're humans and therefore make mistakes. And we all have 20/20 hindsight.

It was John. He was at the edge of the track, not on the track. He's been doing this a long time and he's not stupid.

Jay should NOT have been hurtling there anyway, RED Flag means hurtling time is over!

[gixerracer]

It was John. He was at the edge of the track, not on the track. He's been doing this a long time and he's not stupid.

Jay should NOT have been hurtling there anyway, RED Flag means hurtling time is over!

He was on the track. me and Sloan were surprised to come round the infield and find someone standing on the track,

[Biggles08]

It was John. He was at the edge of the track, not on the track. He's been doing this a long time and he's not stupid.

Jay should NOT have been hurtling there anyway, RED Flag means hurtling time is over!

He was actually on the track...and was on other occasions too but was never an issue from my point of view as I was going slow anyway :sweatdrop

[Kickaha]

as I was going slow anyway :sweatdrop
Do you ride any other way though?

[MSTRS]

I've only ever seen them in the middle of the track, but it's been a year since I did a vic club meeting.

Jay did say that he came hurtling round to find a marshal standing on the track too though.

Told not to do it if it isn't safe, yet there he was. My noob comments are starting to ring more true than my antagonistic intentions realised.


It was John. He was at the edge of the track, not on the track. He's been doing this a long time and he's not stupid.

Jay should NOT have been hurtling there anyway, RED Flag means hurtling time is over!


He was on the track. me and Sloan were surprised to come round the infield and find someone standing on the track,

I was indeed one of the marshals wielding the red flag at 4.
When I took a turn, I was 'on' the track - I suppose - in that my feet were JUST on the tarmac side of the grass. I am not stupid, and wait until any bikes still on their last lap have gone by BEFORE I get near the track or reveal the red flag. A red will be out at 3 for the leaders, and no bikes between me and 3 before I get close. Any bike still hurtling (and I don't recall any that were) should be censured for disobeying the speed rules around red flags anyway. All riders approaching me had a foot or hand out to show they were finished. Most nodded to me that they'd seen me/flag too.

[Drew]

I must have read it wrong, can't be bothered going back through all this shit to see where I got confused.

Thought Jay said he was under the impression it was another warm up lap, so he was going at a good clip to heat up the hoops. Was then confronted with a red flag waving John on track.

[MSTRS]

I must have read it wrong, can't be bothered going back through all this shit to see where I got confused.

Thought Jay said he was under the impression it was another warm up lap, so he was going at a good clip to heat up the hoops. Was then confronted with a red flag waving John on track.

Could have been the other marshal - and yes, we both have beards. When one is in and out of the flag post, on and off, all day, every race, it all tends to blur together in terms of 'which one did I do'...
Besides, I also don't remember but would assume from what we normally do, that EVERY OTHER POINT was showing a red too. Red flag calls are always made by Race Control and we flaggies just do what we are told.

[RobGassit]

Who would ever want to be a Flaggie after reading this thread. At least Parking Wardens get paid.

[yungatart]

Who would ever want to be a Flaggie after reading this thread. At least Parking Wardens get paid.

And people wonder why there are a shortage of volunteers?:wacko:
The wonder is that there are any at all.

[RobGassit]

(Quote) DON'T JUDGE A MAN UNTIL YOU HAVE WALKED A MILE IN HIS BOOTS - "Don't criticize another person's work until you've tried to do it yourself; don't judge another person's life until you've been forced to live it. The word 'criticize' may be used instead of 'judge' and 'shoes' instead of 'boots.' The main entry is one of the 101 most frequently used American proverbs, according to lexicographer Harris Collis."

[Sarah311]

I really love my racing.
I'm really grateful that marshalls and flaggies give their time so I can continue to race. I have done a tiny bit of flagging myself - I really liked that too.
People who don't listen, and don't own their mistakes, and then jeopordise my racing and everyone elses, piss me off.
Not much else to say, just my two cents worth.

[roogazza]

So, it's all settled then !

269438

[MSTRS]

So, it's all settled then !



Pfft!! If only.
But no - tis more likely that the injured on 'all sides' are merely licking their wounds and preparing for a rematch of insults and bullshit at/after Round 5.
Except for YT and me, that is. We won't be there.

[Drew]

Pfft!! If only.
But no - tis more likely that the injured on 'all sides' are merely licking their wounds and preparing for a rematch of insults and bullshit at/after Round 5.
Except for YT and me, that is. We won't be there.

Injuries? There was a fist fight? I fuckin wasn't told.

Buncho cunts, last time I try and start shit, I don't even get invited to the fun bit.

[RDjase]

Manfeild old suites closed
Posted on 01 Sep 2012


The original Manfeild suites, constructed around 30 years ago, have been closed and will be demolished due to an emergent safety concern.

The structure holds nine suites sited above a workroom, a storage shed and a St John’s medical room. These ground floor facilities are not immediately affected by the safety issues and will remain in service for the time being.

The three-storey structure is the last of the original trackside buildings at the venue constructed by the Manawatu Car Club.

http://www.vicclub.co.nz/images/1346494380.jpg


The perfect slip road veiwing platform is going too...........................

[Skunk]

Manfeild old suites closed
Posted on 01 Sep 2012


The original Manfeild suites, constructed around 30 years ago, ....
The perfect slip road veiwing platform is going too...........................Copyright infringement! Stolen from the Vic Club website!

[JayRacer37]

Couple of points in the above statement for everybody to consider,

1/ Its not whats is in your head thats required for a redflag incident,Its whats in the rulebook,Assuming everybody's read it,Then they'll all be thinking the same thing and any chance of an incident is greatly averted.

2/ Once in the slip road,EVERYBODY should stop and remain behind the whiteline until signalled its clear to cross the track,No matter how or why you ended up there,Thats the protocol,NO EXCEPTIONS,I observed at the last round a number of riders pull up between the whiteline and the edge of the track while waiting to be signalled to cross,There is a strict protocol to be followed for the use of that section and if your not sure,Ask at riders briefing or approach the riders rep for clarification,Do not enter the race control room and start asking questions while they are running the meeting.

Billy, I think I need to clarify here - I meant 'In my head/to my way of thinking that is the best way to handle a red flag' not "I think that was what the rule was"

[JayRacer37]

I've only ever seen them in the middle of the track, but it's been a year since I did a vic club meeting.

Jay did say that he came hurtling round to find a marshal standing on the track too though.

Told not to do it if it isn't safe, yet there he was. My noob comments are starting to ring more true than my antagonistic intentions realised.


It was John. He was at the edge of the track, not on the track. He's been doing this a long time and he's not stupid.

Jay should NOT have been hurtling there anyway, RED Flag means hurtling time is over!


He was on the track. me and Sloan were surprised to come round the infield and find someone standing on the track,


He was actually on the track...and was on other occasions too but was never an issue from my point of view as I was going slow anyway :sweatdrop


Having reviewed the video I handily have of said incident, the marshal was NOT on the track. However, when we came around splash and the next right, he was heading TOWARDS the track at quite a clip, and I had thought that he was heading onto the track - like when you think a car is coming though the red light cos they are hell bent on braking late. I was actually touring fairly slowly (100k on my dash which is probably more like 75-80 with the gearing) or half of normal speed through there. I was the first bike on track, but was passed by two just at that point. I was going more than slowly enough to turn into the slip road however people had already gone past and I didn't want to confuse the issue further, not to mention get out of what was now a situation with bikes likely at different speeds.

[MSTRS]

Hmmmm...so no rider was 'hurtling' as such and no marshal was standing in the middle of the track.
Like I said in an earlier post, use of the red flag is ordered by race control, so whatever the marshal/s at any flag point were doing it was under orders anyway. I suspect the idea was that FP4 would get the bikes into the slip lane instead of doing a full lap, which would explain why said marshal was 'heading towards the track at quite a clip'. Wasn't fast enough to stop anyone riding on past tho, was he?
The whole incident of the aborted start and what followed was a misunderstanding on the part of the riders. Well, most of them. The start was abandoned after too many holdups with gridded riders having hands up for whatever reason. Hand signals were given by the start/finish marshals to indicate that riders were to leave their grid positions and proceed on round the track. Red flag/s were deployed, indicating that riders were to either enter the sliplane or, having missed that opportunity, FP8 had their red out showing riders were to leave the track into pitlane. Choppa was the ONLY ONE to do that. Everyone else went back to their start position.
So - officials need to learn something from this. If a start is abandoned again, riders are amped, ready for racing, and can't be expected to understand simple hand signals. Therefore a red flag MUST be deployed at every FP round the track (which is what I thought had happened, but maybe it didn't...)

[jellywrestler]

Hmmmm...so no rider was 'hurtling' as such and no marshal was standing in the middle of the track.
Like I said in an earlier post, use of the red flag is ordered by race control, so whatever the marshal/s at any flag point were doing it was under orders anyway. I suspect the idea was that FP4 would get the bikes into the slip lane instead of doing a full lap, which would explain why said marshal was 'heading towards the track at quite a clip'. Wasn't fast enough to stop anyone riding on past tho, was he?
The whole incident of the aborted start and what followed was a misunderstanding on the part of the riders. Well, most of them. The start was abandoned after too many holdups with gridded riders having hands up for whatever reason. Hand signals were given by the start/finish marshals to indicate that riders were to leave their grid positions and proceed on round the track. Red flag/s were deployed, indicating that riders were to either enter the sliplane or, having missed that opportunity, FP8 had their red out showing riders were to leave the track into pitlane. Choppa was the ONLY ONE to do that. Everyone else went back to their start position.
So - officials need to learn something from this. If a start is abandoned again, riders are amped, ready for racing, and can't be expected to understand simple hand signals. Therefore a red flag MUST be deployed at every FP round the track (which is what I thought had happened, but maybe it didn't...)
is there a one warm up lap board? If not would one be of use so then there's no confusion over hand signals?

[Skunk]

is there a one warm up lap board? If not would one be of use so then there's no confusion over hand signals?

It just got confused. I'm not blaming anybody for it. I'm glad no one even came close to harm. The Race was aborted so everyone could clear their heads - including the starters and officials! The main thing is to learn from it and not let it happen again.

[Biggles08]

So - officials need to learn something from this. If a start is abandoned again, riders are amped, ready for racing, and can't be expected to understand simple hand signals. Therefore a red flag MUST be deployed at every FP round the track (which is what I thought had happened, but maybe it didn't...)

I think you will find now riders will be paying attention to what colour the flags are on the "warm-up" lap and if they are Red they will proceed to the dummy grid...not the starting grid. As has been said already...most of the riders thought we were being waved away for another lap to re-grid...I for one did not pay any attention to the flags that were deployed on this lap as I "knew" we were not racing and I was already heading to the grid to re-form..in my wee pea brain.

[Skunk]

is there a one warm up lap board? If not would one be of use so then there's no confusion over hand signals?Except it wasn't a warm up... Hense the confusion.

[MSTRS]

I think you will find now riders will be paying attention to what colour the flags are on the "warm-up" lap and if they are Red they will proceed to the dummy grid...not the starting grid. As has been said already...most of the riders thought we were being waved away for another lap to re-grid...I for one did not pay any attention to the flags that were deployed on this lap as I "knew" we were not racing and I was already heading to the grid to re-form..in my wee pea brain.

Now there's a problem - if your comment is serious....

Choppa put it into words quite well at one time "I don't know. I put my helmet on, and my brain goes away"

No assumptions on the part of riders. They should always be paying attention to flag colours.

[Drew]

Now there's a problem - if your comment is serious....

Choppa put it into words quite well at one time "I don't know. I put my helmet on, and my brain goes away"

No assumptions on the part of riders. They should always be paying attention to flag colours.
And flaggies should always assume riders haven't paid attention.

Have you ever raced John? It might surprise you to learn that the flags are a lot further off what riders are very closely focused.

But we're all just brainless, we haven't been on a course.

[Kiwi Graham]

Hang on a minute,
I'm just getting over the flu here so bear with me.
Complete the warm up lap/laps and your met with a red flag at the start line, at HD you get shown one at the last FP on the hill up to the start/ finish line to warn you of the start official standing in the middle of the circuit with the raised red flag.
We dont want riders going past to form up on a dummy grid again.

Jelly man the number of warm up laps are indicated by the number of fingers raised at the dummy grid or as you say on a black board... but of course all riders would know already how many warm up laps there are because it would have been in the entry form/regs they signed <_<

[jellywrestler]

Jelly man the number of warm up laps are indicated by the number of fingers raised at the dummy grid or as you say on a black board... but of course all riders would know already how many warm up laps there are because it would have been in the entry form/regs they signed <_<
My point was more if there's a need to dispatch the gridded up riders as there was in this case to stop bikes cooking etc, how then do they know whether it's a return to pits situation or say one more lap then regrid, in this case i called it a 'Warm-up' lap.
I now usually watching from too far away to see what the actual signals may have been, just curious that's all

[RDjase]

Copyright infringement! Stolen from the Vic Club website!

Yep, It was my alter ego "Jase.com" did it..........;)


I thought I put a www.vicclub.co.nz link on that post, must have got sidetracked, or was waiting in the slip road.................

[Biggles08]

Now there's a problem - if your comment is serious....
They should always be paying attention to flag colours.


My comment was very serious...usually on warm up laps I'm thinking about how I'm going to start, waming my clutch, getting my race brain in place...I know where the flag points are why would I need to look at them. I guess its a bit like the safety speech when you board a plane...if you travel a lot its all much a blurr as you know the drill.

Like I say, I will look at the flag colours on the warm up lap now and if they are RED I will return to the dummy grid. Previously I only thought they were being waved so we could see where the points were...I knew where they were so pretty much ignored them. Not any more :-)

[MSTRS]

My comment was very serious...usually on warm up laps I'm thinking about how I'm going to start, waming my clutch, getting my race brain in place...I know where the flag points are why would I need to look at them. I guess its a bit like the safety speech when you board a plane...if you travel a lot its all much a blurr as you know the drill.

Like I say, I will look at the flag colours on the warm up lap now and if they are RED I will return to the dummy grid. Previously I only thought they were being waved so we could see where the points were...I knew where they were so pretty much ignored them. Not any more :-)

I can kind of see why you'd ignore flagpoints in the aborted start circumstances. However...

Flag points display a stationary yellow first lap only of practice. It is indeed to tell riders where the manned points are. They only wave it if there is a problem on their patch. The yellow flag would not have been used for the event in question. The red should have been out at all points...it seems it wasn't, so that is something for officials to sort out for the future.

[quickbuck]

My comment was very serious...usually on warm up laps I'm thinking about how I'm going to start, waming my clutch, getting my race brain in place...I know where the flag points are why would I need to look at them. I guess its a bit like the safety speech when you board a plane...if you travel a lot its all much a blurr as you know the drill.

Like I say, I will look at the flag colours on the warm up lap now and if they are RED I will return to the dummy grid. Previously I only thought they were being waved so we could see where the points were...I knew where they were so pretty much ignored them. Not any more :-)
All fair points Biggles.
The only thing it wasn't actually a warm-up lap, but you could be excused for thinking it was another warm up lap.... as it transpires....

Another thing to remember is sometimes the Red/Yellow is help out on the warm up lap to indicate that the surface isn't as grippy on that corner as it was last time you were out there.... Pay ALOT of attention to that.
The give away is usually a large amount of cement dust or such substance there, and usually after a delay too... but just in case you went to sleep in the pit garage the flag is there as a final reminder of information.

[jellywrestler]

waming my clutch, getting my race brain in place...I know where the flag points are why would I need to look at them.
cause in the first world superbikes championship final at manfeild, when Fred Merkel and Stephane Mertans were doing their warm up lap, one of them could crash and you need to know about it.
Waming-?? it's 20 after eleven on a wednesday night, that vision alone will give me nightmares Wiggles

[Billy]

cause in the first world superbikes championship final at manfeild, when Fred Merkel and Stephane Mertans were doing their warm up lap, one of them could crash and you need to know about it.
Waming-?? it's 20 after eleven on a wednesday night, that vision alone will give me nightmares Wiggles

Are you sure you don't mean Davide Tardozzi ????

[jellywrestler]

Are you sure you don't mean Davide Tardozzi ????

probably Billy, late wed nite and the brain isn't working too well, I knew it was one of the Bimota riders.
My point to Wiggles is that things do happen on warm up laps, ask Graeme Crosby too, he left the pit lane at Manfeild once and got less than five meters before going over the handlebars.
ANY time you're on a race track the flags have significance...

[Biggles08]

probably Billy, late wed nite and the brain isn't working too well, I knew it was one of the Bimota riders.
My point to Wiggles is that things do happen on warm up laps, ask Graeme Crosby too, he left the pit lane at Manfeild once and got less than five meters before going over the handlebars.
ANY time you're on a race track the flags have significance...

Yup...exactly my point Mr Jelly...btw...stop calling me wiggles...that's Mark Wigglys name and you are confusing me...besides I think I have enough pseudo names already!:confused:

[Billy]

Yup...exactly my point Mr Jelly...btw...stop calling me wiggles...that's Mark Wigglys name and you are confusing me...besides I think I have enough pseudo names already!:confused:

Like what Morris????

[suzuki21]

Like what Morris????

You guys should have more respect and not give giggles shit.

[White trash]

Mate , ya wrong on sooo many points , I have been in the shit with ACU / MNZ since i smacked Erroll in 1991 and that means i am not new to the situation. Slippery slopes are fun and if i have always enjoyed the scenery along the way.

Have a lovely fathers day anyway you old bastard.

If it's the Erroll I'm thinking of, he probably fucking deserved it. What a fuckwit *that* guy was.......He looked like Bungle from that 80's TV show, Rainbow.

[Drew]

If it's the Erroll I'm thinking of, he probably fucking deserved it. What a fuckwit *that* guy was.......He looked like Bungle from that 80's TV show, Rainbow.

Not the dude with the jellybean RGV? I thought he was a funny cunt, but I might be remembering his name wrong.

Also, can anyone imagine Paul the cardboard cutout smacking someone? Be funny as hell I reckon!

[White trash]

Not the dude with the jellybean RGV? I thought he was a funny cunt, but I might be remembering his name wrong.

Also, can anyone imagine Paul the cardboard cutout smacking someone? Be funny as hell I reckon!

Actually you're right, I'm thinking of Erroll's mate Kelly. HE was Bungle. Erroll wasn't so bad.

[RobGassit]

Bring back the biff!:bash:

[roadracingoldfart]

Like what Morris????
Morris is just a name he thought up to make it look like Spyda didnt know what he was talking about.


You guys should have more respect and not give giggles shit.
Now thats a slightly better name for him.


If it's the Erroll I'm thinking of, he probably fucking deserved it. What a fuckwit *that* guy was.......He looked like Bungle from that 80's TV show, Rainbow.
Its not the Erroll you know unless you frequent MNZ.



Also, can anyone imagine Paul the cardboard cutout smacking someone? Be funny as hell I reckon!
Come and tell 30 odd years of Asian " smacking in the head " technique that. You never forget it matey. Plus i was an angry little arsehole then ..... ohh same old same old lol.

[Fatjim]

How do you hide tats on your hands and face, with clothes? I've never seen you wearing a burka. Thats the dummist thing I think you've ever said. How would you know if she was wearing a burka?


Could have been the other marshal - and yes, we both have beards. When one is in and out of the flag post, on and off, all day, every race, it all tends to blur together in terms of 'which one did I do'...


I'nm sure its in the rule book that beards should be distributed amongst the marshal posts to stop this kind of confusion.