Pest Free NZ - radio national

[Akzle]

damn good show. trying to find a link to download/ on demand.

asides from their condoning of 1080, i'm on side.

everyone go and kill something today!

[Akzle]

like this one:
http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/lecturesandforums/talkingheads/20120722

[Paul in NZ]

The irony or you posting this has not escaped me....

[Stirts]

Pest Free

That's exactly what SS-Hauptsturmführer Karl Fritzsch said.

[SMOKEU]

We won't tell them our plans until most of them are on the trains heading to the camps.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Anyone that's anti 1080 is a fucking dreamer.

[Akzle]

Anyone that's anti 1080 is a fucking dreamer.


i'm not anti 1080. i'm anti aerial blanket drops of it. it can be done in much better ways. i've dished out my share of 1080. in TARGETED poisoning. ops.

but, what is your argument?
if 1080 is so fuckin good, why are we one of the only OECD countries that use it? and why have we been using it for fifty bloody years, if it's so fuckin good?

[Crasherfromwayback]

but, what is your argument?
if 1080 is so fuckin good, why are we one of the only OECD countries that use it? and why have we been using it for fifty bloody years, if it's so fuckin good?


1080 is the only effcient way to control possums and other varmin in NZ end of story. Especially in extremely hilly terrain which is near impossible to bait manually. I can't think of another country in the world where possums bread like they do here. You only have to sit in suburbia anywhere in Wellington to see the positive effect it's had on the native bird life etc. Anyone that says otherwise is talking out their arse.

[Berries]

if 1080 is so fuckin good, why are we one of the only OECD countries that use it? and why have we been using it for fifty bloody years, if it's so fuckin good?
The possums love it.

[Akzle]

The possums love it.
and the scavengers love feeding on the carcasses, and the carcasses gravitate to waterways, and most things drink water. and dead bodies in water are not so good for the health.
1080 will kill a dog three- poisoned carcasses on. (i'm not condoning dogs running amok. that's just a handy fact)
1080 fucks EVERYTHING. half of it doesn't even get to the forest floor, it hangs up in trees and so eaten by (rats) and birds. even the native birds...

1080 is the only effcient way to control possums and other varmin in NZ end of story. Especially in extremely hilly terrain which is near impossible to bait manually. I can't think of another country in the world where possums bread like they do here. You only have to sit in suburbia anywhere in Wellington to see the positive effect it's had on the native bird life etc. Anyone that says otherwise is talking out their arse.

because they dropped 1080 in wellington suburbia? did i miss something?

wellington is incredibly lucky, not least because of the karori sanctuary, but also they be surrounded by boosh, and a lot of people spend a lot of time and effort in that boosh, killin shit. (not for wont of 1080) and, it may be coincidence, but a lot of people i've met/dealt with/heard of, in wellingtown suburbia who also do their part, not feeding cats, trapping coons, etc.

[Stirts]

see the positive effect it's had on the native bird life etc.

Warm nipples makes for happy native birds :yes:

<img src="http://www.jonco48.com/blog/nipplethumb.jpg"></img>

[HenryDorsetCase]

Warm nipples makes for happy native birds :yes:

<img src="http://www.jonco48.com/blog/nipplethumb.jpg"></img>

cheered me up too, I must say

[mashman]

Warm nipples makes for happy native birds :yes:

<img src="http://www.jonco48.com/blog/nipplethumb.jpg"></img>

Pointless.

[Stirts]

cheered me up too, I must say

Yeah, a bit of fluff tends to do that.


Pointless.

Well it all depends on one's point of view - there may well be a great opportunity in this situation ...

267829

Glass half full Mr mashman :bleh:

[gammaguy]

We won't tell them our plans until most of them are on the trains heading to the camps.

wont happen

government are selling the trains to china and the rails to the japanese

those cunts cant agree on anything

[BoristheBiter]

1080 is the only effcient way to control possums and other varmin in NZ end of story. Especially in extremely hilly terrain which is near impossible to bait manually. I can't think of another country in the world where possums bread like they do here. You only have to sit in suburbia anywhere in Wellington to see the positive effect it's had on the native bird life etc. Anyone that says otherwise is talking out their arse.

No, it is the cheapest.

The most effective is ground baiting but, as you have pointed out, we have a very hilly land so ground baiting is very time consuming.

I don't know if you have ever seen the effects of 1080 on an animal but I have and it is not a pretty site.

[Crasherfromwayback]

No, it is the cheapest.

The most effective is ground baiting but, as you have pointed out, we have a very hilly land so ground baiting is very time consuming.

I don't know if you have ever seen the effects of 1080 on an animal but I have and it is not a pretty site.

Some land so steep it's also near impossible.

Maybe so. But the effects of not doing it are more harmfull to NZ than doing it.

[SMOKEU]

wont happen

government are selling the trains to china and the rails to the japanese

those cunts cant agree on anything

And I was so close to coming up with the final solution.

[avgas]

wont happen
government are selling the trains to china and the rails to the japanese
those cunts cant agree on anything
Sounds similar to a certain ANZAC agreement.

[avgas]

I am not a fan of poisons. They are poisonous. I think we should make all the unemployed have to go shoot rodents. They get paid per rodent.

[Crasherfromwayback]

I am not a fan of poisons. They are poisonous. I think we should make all the unemployed have to go shoot rodents. They get paid per rodent.

I'd be all for shooting them instead too. But like I say...far too much of the land they occupy is too steep. It ain't gonna happen. And giving the unemployed firearms maye be far worse than using 1080!

[BoristheBiter]

Some land so steep it's also near impossible.

Maybe so. But the effects of not doing it are more harmfull to NZ than doing it.

Never said not to do it, just use less harmful poison or at least only get the target species.

there is nothing you can say that would make me change my mind in the use of 1080.
It's like walking into a shopping mall blindfolded and just opening up with a machine gun.

It can be done it just costs more, if they can heli drop 1080 then can heli drop people and bait stations.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Never said not to do it, just use less harmful poison or at least only get the target species.

there is nothing you can say that would make me change my mind in the use of 1080.
It's like walking into a shopping mall blindfolded and just opening up with a machine gun.

.

I think you'll find that they're now not getting nearly as many other things as a by kill as they used to by using different pellets etc. What species can you say is in decline because of the use of 1080? Apart from possums, Stoats, Rats and Ferrets of course.

[duckonin]

I am not a fan of poisons. They are poisonous. I think we should make all the unemployed have to go shoot rodents. They get paid per rodent.

:Oi:Now think that one through properly. Give guns to the unemployed:( !!! Ha ah Yeah right .;)

[BoristheBiter]

I think you'll find that they're now not getting nearly as many other things as a by kill as they used to by using different pellets etc. What species can you say is in decline because of the use of 1080? Apart from possums, Stoats, Rats and Ferrets of course.

Don't you believe it.
They started used deer repellent after huge lobbying by the NZDA and others.
Try going for a walk after they have dropped 1080, they are easy to find as there is no sound, it is dead it kills everything.

The possum dies, bugs clean up the remains, birds and lizards eat the bugs, they die of 1080.
Once it gets into the food chain it will kill anything that it touches.

And it isn't that effective for catching possums.

[duckonin]

I think you'll find that they're now not getting nearly as many other things as a by kill as they used to by using different pellets etc. What species can you say is in decline because of the use of 1080? Apart from possums, Stoats, Rats and Ferrets of course.

For a person who has sold motorbikes most of their life you are a proper little know all, are you not ?..

In decline in areas 1080 used. 'Every animal including birds and kiwis..That is all animals. Go into an area where '1080 pollard baits' has been used for the following 9 months or so there will be an awful silence. 'NO BIRD LIFE NOTHING AT ALL.' To say otherwise 'you' would of be brain washed by the bureaucracy, the same as the rest of those who do not know the real deal.

Your other point , "now not getting nearly as many other things as a by kill is correct" . Reason there is nothing left.;)

Another point you have made is that our topography does not allow ground control throughout the entire country is correct.

Just a pity we have not developed another form of pest control that is effective long term. Scentists tried to develop a contraception prill, but what good would that do ?

[duckonin]

Don't you believe it.
They started used deer repellent after huge lobbying by the NZDA and others.
Try going for a walk after they have dropped 1080, they are easy to find as there is no sound, it is dead it kills everything.

The possum dies, bugs clean up the remains, birds and lizards eat the bugs, they die of 1080.
Once it gets into the food chain it will kill anything that it touches.

And it isn't that effective for catching possums.


Sorry Boris, 1080 does not 'catch possums' it 'kills' them only.. You post tells me you are onto it .;)

[Crasherfromwayback]

For a person who has sold motorbikes most of their life you are a proper little know all, are you not ?..

?

So sorry your Royal Highness. Didn't realise that because I sell bikes it was illegal to have opinions on anything else. Now tell us what you do for a living. And if it's not anything to do with 1080, guess you can shut the fuck up too eh? And if you don't sell motorcycles...best you not say anything 'bout them either eh? What a world that'd be eh? Lets all only talk about what we do for a living!!! What an awesome idea.

[Crasherfromwayback]

For a person who has sold motorbikes most of their life you are a proper little know all, are you not ?..

In decline in areas 1080 used. 'Every animal including birds and kiwis..That is all animals. Go into an area where '1080 pollard baits' has been used for the following 9 months or so there will be an awful silence. 'NO BIRD LIFE NOTHING AT ALL.' To say otherwise 'you' would of be brain washed by the bureaucracy, the same as the rest of those who do not know the real deal.

?

Seeing as I'm nothing but a motorcycle selling little know all...could you please explain to me why NZ Forrest and Bird support the use of 1080 if it kills all the wee birdies like you claim?

[BoristheBiter]

Sorry Boris, 1080 does not 'catch possums' it 'kills' them only.. You post tells me you are onto it .;)

Like I said it wasn't very good at it :innocent:

[Crasherfromwayback]

Sorry Boris, 1080 does not 'catch possums' it 'kills' them only.. You post tells me you are onto it .;)

A list of groups 'pro' 1080 usage. Show me your list 'against' please?

Support: The following agencies, organisations and political parties support the use of 1080 in New Zealand:

The Animal Health Board, New Zealand's largest user of 1080 poison, strongly advocates for the continued use of 1080 to control the main TB vector - the Common Brushtail Possum.[33]
The Department of Conservation, New Zealand's second largest user of 1080 poison, strongly advocates for the continued use of 1080 poison to control ecological pests.[34]
Forest & Bird, New Zealand's biggest conservation charity, strongly advocates for the continued use of 1080 poison to control ecological pests.[35]
Federated Farmers, New Zealand's biggest farmers' advocacy organisation, strongly supports the continued use of 1080 to control agricultural pests.[36]
The National Party, New Zealand's ruling party (as of 2011), welcomed the report of the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment on the use of 1080 as the most effective tool available for pest management in New Zealand.[37]
The Labour Party, New Zealand's main opposition party (as of 2011), expressed strong support for the recommendations in the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment’s report into 1080[38]
The Green Party, New Zealand's main environmental party, welcomed the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment's report as 'favourable', but remains committed to finding alternatives to the poison.[39]
ACT, New Zealand's classical liberal party, does not support a ban on the use of 1080.[40]
Local Government New Zealand, the organisation that represents the national interests of all 85 regional councils, unitary authorities, district councils and city councils of New Zealand, stated in a sumbmission to the 2007 ERMA reassessment tha "1080 is an important tool in New Zealand for pest animal control and Tb control, as well as helping to maintain and protect our unique native flora and fauna.[41]
The Environmental Protection Authority (Te Mana Rauhī Taiao) concluded, in its 2007 reassessment of 1080, that the benefits of using it clearly outweighed the risks.[42]
The Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment (Te Kaitiaki Taiao a Te Whare Pāremata), whose role it is to review and provide advice on environmental issues and the system of agencies and processes established by the Government to manage the environment concluded, in her 2011 report on the poison, that if we want to keep our forests for future generations we simply cannot afford to stop using 1080.[43]
New Zealand Veterinary Association recognises that, in the absence of effective alternatives, the continued use of 1080 as a means of pest control (possums and some other introduced species) is necessary to assist the eradication of bovine tuberculosis and the conservation of New Zealand’s unique native flora and fauna.[44]

[Fast Eddie]

That's exactly what SS-Hauptsturmführer Karl Fritzsch said.
hahaha


We won't tell them our plans until most of them are on the trains heading to the camps.


wont happen

government are selling the trains to china and the rails to the japanese

those cunts cant agree on anything

haha

And I was so close to coming up with the final solution.

ha.. have you actually read a paper copy of mein kampf? u get em in english.. but better in Deutsch

[awa355]

Just a pity we have not developed another form of pest control that is effective long term.

I hear Agent Orange was quite effective, a few years ago.

[Akzle]

Some land so steep it's also near impossible.

Maybe so. But the effects of not doing it are more harmfull to NZ than doing it.

yes. but the coons don't go where it's so steep it's near impossible. coons are so f*ing lazy that politicians could ground bait em. srsly, a good trap line either side of every ridge or spur and they'll be done. plus, start the "million dollar coon" hunt. - government pays 10c/ tail until the numbers are down 50%, 50c a tail until they're down 70% until you get the last coon. the .000001%, that's worth a million dollars. it'd be cheaper than spending the hundreds of thousands of dollars (annually) spreading 1080 out of aircraft, it would involve a lot more people, without the hassles of them being employed/managed or regulated/licensed etc, be a lot more visible, and china will pay 120$/kg for the fur until then.

the effects of not doing it... that's a tricky one. that's like saying the effects of not driving are more harmful than doing it. (greenhouse gasses, human welfare, consumption etc)
it's a cost-benefit thing. and i think the costs could well be better spent.

as for them nipple warmers/ticklers. the daft bitch has it inside out...

[duckonin]

I hear Agent Orange was quite effective, a few years ago.

Ha ha yep 'very' on the pest's and also the non target species.

[Crasherfromwayback]

yes. but the coons don't go where it's so steep it's near impossible. coons are so f*ing lazy that politicians could ground bait em. srsly, a good trap line either side of every ridge or spur and they'll be done. plus, start the "million dollar coon" hunt. - government pays 10c/ tail until the numbers are down 50%, 50c a tail until they're down 70% until you get the last coon. the .000001%, that's worth a million dollars. it'd be cheaper than spending the hundreds of thousands of dollars (annually) spreading 1080 out of aircraft, it would involve a lot more people, without the hassles of them being employed/managed or regulated/licensed etc, be a lot more visible, and china will pay 120$/kg for the fur until then.




Trapping ain't working.
http://tbfree.org.nz/Publications-news/News-releases/News-item/xmid/6205

[Akzle]

Trapping ain't working.
http://tbfree.org.nz/Publications-news/News-releases/News-item/xmid/6205

trapping aint having the funding that 1080 is put toward it. fuck knows it works round my place.

as with the car analogy above, there is a better way, but there has to be en masse consensus and change. maintaining the status quo by continuing to aerial drop 1080, will do just that: maintain the status quo.

[duckonin]

Seeing as I'm nothing but a motorcycle selling little know all...could you please explain to me why NZ Forrest and Bird support the use of 1080 if it kills all the wee birdies like you claim?

Do I not wright clearly enough for your reading ability :nono:? The head of forest and bird listern to the BUREAUCRACY, the rest do as they are told.

Never have listerned or read rubbish created by shiny arsed fat dicks that do not/ never have lived in the field..:killingme

The bureaucracy would not like it known they also are part of the killing chain on non target species.;) Nope they just read the crap they are sent..

As for me, for all you care, I am whatever your imagination wants me to be at the time you read a post of mine.

Crasher it comes back to a "little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing"

[Akzle]

AAAAAAnd.
would the AHB, perchance, be on that git's list of crowds that SUPPORT 1080?
now.. they wouldn't enter into any kind of biased research would they?

73% of statistics are made up on the spot.

conducting research to make the results fit the hypothesis is pretty much the only way it's done, especially if say, the government is involved.

[duckonin]

AAAAAAnd.


73% of statistics are made up on the spot.

conducting research to make the results fit the hypothesis is pretty much the only way it's done, especially if say, the government is involved.

:yes: pretty much

[Crasherfromwayback]

Crasher it comes back to a "little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing"

You're not wrong. Still waiting for some stats from you though. You know. Cold hard facts?

[avgas]

I'd be all for shooting them instead too. But like I say...far too much of the land they occupy is too steep. It ain't gonna happen. And giving the unemployed firearms maye be far worse than using 1080!


:Oi:Now think that one through properly. Give guns to the unemployed:( !!! Ha ah Yeah right .;)
Now at what point did I say it was a better solution.

Besides, if you don't dress up like a cop or a hunter in NZ - you tend to not get shot. In fact if you dress up like a deer no hunter in NZ would even aim a gun at you.

[avgas]

trapping aint having the funding that 1080 is put toward it. fuck knows it works round my place.
I think you will find a majority of this is due to compliance cost of the chemical (it is a poison after all). Similar issues are raised with using Hicane on kiwifruit vs kiwi green.
Then there is a labour component. Which pretty much destroys any hunting and trapping budget.
While bird safe traps (http://www.pestcontrolresearch.co.nz/docs-trapping/birdsafekilltrap2.pdf) have been found to be as cheap as poisoning. As soon as you add labour to go out and patrol a massive area setting and resetting traps.............well lets just say if you doubled the 1080 aerial dropping budget you wouldn't scrape the sides of a national trapping budget.

Like it or hate it, aerial dropped 1080 is bang-for-buck. So until you want to pay a massive tax to preserve the Forrest in NZ, the governments only option with the limited budget it has is the most lethal.

Or do you have an economics major to match your legal and medical backgrounds?
If so do speak up and tell us how your going to get the BILLIONS of dollars to making trapping a viable option in NZ.

[awa355]

Do I not wright clearly enough for your reading ability :nono:? The head of forest and bird listern to the BUREAUCRACY, the rest do as they are told.

Never have listerned or read rubbish created by shiny arsed fat dicks that do not/ never have lived in the field..:killingme

The bureaucracy would not like it known they also are part of the killing chain on non target species.;) Nope they just read the crap they are sent..

As for me, for all you care, I am whatever your imagination wants me to be at the time you read a post of mine.

Crasher it comes back to a "little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing"


At least "crasherfromwayback" can spell.

[Road kill]

In 1974 I read that there were 7 million possums in NZ.
Last year I read that there are 7 million possums in NZ.
Doesn't seem to me that it's working that good.
My Younger brother who works for EPRO is all for 1080,,it helps them do there job better.
Their job ?,,too get a 95% kill rate in a given area.
Pity that a 95% kill rate leaves 5%,,which can fully repopulate a given area inside 10 years.
And you think EPRO doesn't know that ?,,,it's their figures.
NZ is already being very closely watched by those countrys that buy our meat,,,so far they have picked up 1080 residue in meat from certain areas,,,,it get's over a preset percentage,,,they stop buying our meat.
It's already all but killed off our wild meat for export from a lot of areas.
The people that used to buy it will now only buy from areas that we can garantie are more than 10km from a 1080'd area.
There was never any deer repellent in any of the air drops,,,that was a beat up to get NZDA to shut the fuck up,,,,that's now common knowlage.
NZ has had 30-40 years to develop a species specific poison,,,so why haven't they ?
Could be somebody is making a nice living from keeping things as they are,,,Nah never happen in NZ aye.
Just like no NZ politician is making any thing from being a director of Sandfords,,,Nah never happen in good ole NZ.
Twig an tweet support it,,,wonder who bought them ?
Years ago I used to sit under an old Beech just off the desert rd and watch the Kaka family that lived in it show off an do crazy shit like walking up side down as they watched me watching them.
I would of been in the order of $2000 down had I taken Sako an blown one of them away an then got catched.
DOC killed them with their 1080 an nobody blinked an eye.
7 Million possums an no bodys making a living at keeping it that way,,,yeah right.

[BoristheBiter]

A list of groups 'pro' 1080 usage. Show me your list 'against' please?

[44]

th list aganist starts with 500'000 hunters

The problem with your list is they either,
a) pay for it,
b) are paid to use it,
c) are told to use it,
d) don't have the money to do its themselves

If you want hard evidence then watch these dvd's. I'm trying to find a open vid.
http://www.thegrafboys.org/

Or if you fancy some fresh air get in contact with your local DOC office and find where the latest drop is.
See if you can find so animals that are still alive.

[Crasherfromwayback]

The problem with this list is they either,
a) pay for it,
b) are paid to use it,
c) are told to use it,
d) don't have the money to do its themselves

If you want hard evidence then watch these dvd's. I'm trying to find a open vid.

http://www.thegrafboys.org/

Valid points, and for sure I'll check your vid when I have time at home!

I wouldn't mind betting most things they say are covered here too though...

https://www.facebook.com/#!/1080facts

[BoristheBiter]

Valid points, and for sure I'll check your vid when I have time at home!

I wouldn't mind betting most things they say are covered here too though...

https://www.facebook.com/#!/1080facts

Pity it is a fed farmers site other that that it might have some weight.

And the forests up in dargaville have been extensively hand baited.

I guess it is a he said she said, but it makes you think that NZ use 80% of the worlds production and most other country's wont touch it.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Or if you fancy some fresh air get in contact with your local DOC office and find where the latest drop is.
See if you can find so animals that are still alive.

]

Well as I mentioned to the OP. Wellington is once again alive to the sound of native birds. And yes I know Zealandia and it's predator proof fence is a big part of that. But I don't think it can all be attributed to that. Eastbourne and Upper Hutt are the same, and they've dropped 1080 there in the past. I don't think they're killing too many native birds off now, compared to how many they're saving through pest control. Have we got any proof of the killing of native birds etc now or not? And I don't go for the poisoning of the water ways euther. That's proven to be BS.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Pity it is a fed farmers site other that that it might have some weight.

And the forests up in dargaville have been extensively hand baited.

I guess it is a he said she said, but it makes you think that NZ use 80% of the worlds production and most other country's wont touch it.

I'm more than happy to look at any sites you may have that offer a different take, as long as it's backed up with facts.

And name another country that has as much of a problem as we do with them bloody things mate? With the sort of topography we do. Seriously. And don't for a minute think I think it's the very best solution. Just the best option WE currently have. That's why I'm all for it. If we don't use it...we'll (well the possums) fuck the country side in no time. Huge amounts of it are already completely fucked.

[mashman]

Well it all depends on one's point of view - there may well be a great opportunity in this situation ...

267829

Glass half full Mr mashman :bleh:

my cup brimeth over iykwim

[BoristheBiter]

Well as I mentioned to the OP. Wellington is once again alive to the sound of native birds. And yes I know Zealandia and it's predator proof fence is a big part of that. But I don't think it can all be attributed to that. Eastbourne and Upper Hutt are the same, and they've dropped 1080 there in the past. I don't think they're killing too many native birds off now, compared to how many they're saving through pest control. Have we got any proof of the killing of native birds etc now or not? And I don't go for the poisoning of the water ways euther. That's proven to be BS.

Until someone puts 1080 pellets in the pumping station and they shut the water down for a month.

Try these for sorce.
http://www.enufisenuf.co.nz/home.html
http://www.safe.org.nz/Campaigns/Ban-1080/

But then I know you have read the wiki page so you know all about 1080.
So what about the questions that the board asked?

1. Can the method decrease populations of possums, rats and stoats?
Yes
2. Can the method increase populations of native species?
No/yes
3. Can the method rapidly knock down irrupting populations of pests?
No
4. Can the method be used on a large scale in remote areas?
yes
5: Is the method sufficiently cost-effective?
yes
6. Does the method leave residues in the environment?
yes
7. Can by-kill from the method be minimised?
no
8. Does the method endanger people?
yes
9. Does the method kill humanely?
no

And out of all those questions only number 5 is the one they look at as if you were doing this on your own land you would be mad to think 1080 was safe.
Even fed farmers know this and this is why there is a 5km non drop zone around farms, well some anyway.

[Akzle]

I think you will find a majority of this is due to compliance cost of the chemical (it is a poison after all). ...(yada yada and so on and so forth)

Or do you have an economics major to match your legal and medical backgrounds?
If so do speak up and tell us how your going to get the BILLIONS of dollars to making trapping a viable option in NZ.
who's talking billions? where did you even pull that number from? (same as where the rest of you stuff comes from, sounds like.) have i mentioned my "million dollar coon" theorem?



NZ is already being very closely watched by those countrys that buy our meat,,,so far they have picked up 1080 residue in meat from certain areas,,,,it get's over a preset percentage,,,they stop buying our meat.
It's already all but killed off our wild meat for export from a lot of areas.

...There was never any deer repellent in any of the air drops,,,that was a beat up to get NZDA to shut the fuck up,,,,that's now common knowlage.

...7 Million possums an no bodys making a living at keeping it that way,,,yeah right.

there was deer repellant.. it just made the bait more palatable to native species. :doh:
japan is right up on that list of people who no longer import our shit because of the wanton 1080 usage.
they have a culture that pays top dollar for top cuts (dolphin, whale, endangered cats, wild venison etc) but noooo. we dip out on that...

[mashman]

Ditch money and we could all take a couple of weeks off, per year, 1 to learn how to shoot and 1 to go out and shoot that which we target with 1080, but without the side effects. Easy :bleh:

[BoristheBiter]

I'm more than happy to look at any sites you may have that offer a different take, as long as it's backed up with facts.

And name another country that has as much of a problem as we do with them bloody things mate? With the sort of topography we do. Seriously. And don't for a minute think I think it's the very best solution. Just the best option WE currently have. That's why I'm all for it. If we don't use it...we'll (well the possums) fuck the country side in no time. Huge amounts of it are already completely fucked.

From the site you are quoting.

http://www.1080facts.co.nz/another-view-on-1080

most is opinion but that first paragraph.:crazy:

[BoristheBiter]

Ditch money and we could all take a couple of weeks off, per year, 1 to learn how to shoot and 1 to go out and shoot that which we target with 1080, but without the side effects. Easy :bleh:

Unless you need to brush your teeth.

[Akzle]

And I don't go for the poisoning of the water ways euther. That's proven to be BS. sodium monofluroacetate breaks down in water in to non-toxic molecules. so from that point you're right.
unfortunately so do animal carcasses. which generate toxic molecules and breed bacteria and virii, which DO NOT break down in water. you could dump pound for pound of 1080 in auckland's water tanks and nobody would notice. dump pound for pound of rotting animal flesh... well...

[BoristheBiter]

sodium monofluroacetate breaks down in water in to non-toxic molecules. so from that point you're right.
unfortunately so do animal carcasses. which generate toxic molecules and breed bacteria and virii, which DO NOT break down in water. you could dump pound for pound of 1080 in auckland's water tanks and nobody would notice. dump pound for pound of rotting animal flesh... well...

The water also has to be above a certain temp but i cant find what at the moment.

[Brett]

1080 is the only effcient way to control possums and other varmin in NZ end of story. Especially in extremely hilly terrain which is near impossible to bait manually. I can't think of another country in the world where possums bread like they do here. You only have to sit in suburbia anywhere in Wellington to see the positive effect it's had on the native bird life etc. Anyone that says otherwise is talking out their arse.

I'll tell ya another...go back to the old days where the gubbermint would provide you with .22 ammo based on how many pests you killed and you could also sell the skins. I don't really know enough about 1080 to make an educated comment.

[BoristheBiter]

I'm more than happy to look at any sites you may have that offer a different take, as long as it's backed up with facts.


And another.
http://www.stop1080poison.com/Page10.html

[Crasherfromwayback]

I'll tell ya another...go back to the old days where the gubbermint would provide you with .22 ammo based on how many pests you killed and you could also sell the skins. I don't really know enough about 1080 to make an educated comment.

Imagine the carnage that'd create now though. At least back then...people were safe with firenarms on the whole!

[Crasherfromwayback]

From the site you are quoting.

http://www.1080facts.co.nz/another-view-on-1080

most is opinion but that first paragraph.:crazy:

Thought it looked like some facts actually.

[nodrog]

what sort of motorcycles do they ride?

[SMOKEU]

ha.. have you actually read a paper copy of mein kampf? u get em in english.. but better in Deutsch

I haven't yet, but it's on my to do list. I've got an ebook copy of it.

[Crasherfromwayback]

But then I know you have read the wiki page so you know all about 1080.
.

Read a few things over the years on the subject, and talked with a lot of people on both sides of the fence over the years.

But I still want you to show me, cold hard facts that 1080 kills more native species than it saves. And that's not even taking the native bush the fuckers kill into account. Numbers please? Then you can tell me how you're going to control NZ's possum population. Because NZ's best can only come up with the continued usage of 1080.

[Crasherfromwayback]

In 1974 I read that there were 7 million possums in NZ.
Last year I read that there are 7 million possums in NZ.
Doesn't seem to me that it's working that good.
.

Rocket science eh. Would do you think would've happened if those 7 million possums weren't controlled with 1080?

How many do you think there'd be now Einstein?

[Hitcher]

if 1080 is so fuckin good, why are we one of the only OECD countries that use it? and why have we been using it for fifty bloody years, if it's so fuckin good?

Few other countries in the world have pest mammals to the extent that New Zealand does, that's why we use it. Not to mention it being non-cumulative or residual in the environment. The only people who oppose its use are people who like roaming around with guns and killing mammals, and people who can't control their dogs in areas where 1080 has been applied.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Few other countries in the world have pest mammals to the extent that New Zealand does, that's why we use it. Not to mention it being non-cumulative or residual in the environment. The only people who oppose its use are people who like roaming around with guns and killing mammals, and people who can't control their dogs in areas where 1080 has been applied.

Yeah I've mentioned that a few times, but thy don't seem to want to know about that. Most of them, in my experience, are the type of people that are anti immunisation as well. Maybe that's why they harp on about birds so much. They're emus.

I've yet to see a single 'anti 1080' person give us a better way to control the pests 1080 kills though.

[BoristheBiter]

Yeah I've mentioned that a few times, but thy don't seem to want to know about that. Most of them, in my experience, are the type of people that are anti immunisation as well. Maybe that's why they harp on about birds so much. They're emus.

I've yet to see a single 'anti 1080' person give us a better way to control the pests 1080 kills though.

No what you are after is a cheaper option.

The best option is to ground bait but as this is more costly it isn't even looked at.

Why is it that all pro 1080 people never go into the bush?

[Akzle]

NZ, globally, is the ONLY landmass with no endemic mamalia.

Cool story.

The fact that i like walking round town and country with guns on is irrelevant.

THERE ARE BETTER WAYS, THEY REQUIRE AN EN MASSE MENTALITY SHIFT.
Don't jump on his coattails crasher, he's far more succint than you've been.

The boosh has maximum holding numbers for any given species. 7million might be about it fer coons. They wont just breed incessantly. That's a human trick. All other animals STOP FUCKING when the food supply gets thin.
Two thing that grow for growths sake: humans, and cancer.
Go figure.

[scumdog]

The boosh has maximum holding numbers for any given species. 7million might be about it fer coons. They wont just breed incessantly. That's a human trick. All other animals STOP FUCKING when the food supply gets thin.
e.

And some species die out due to lack of suitable environment caused by over-population of another species...possums are late arrivals and using up existing species of plant and animals.

And I have been told NZ bats were here before any humans, hence are 'native mammals'...but then what do I know??

[Crasherfromwayback]

No what you are after is a cheaper option.

The best option is to ground bait but as this is more costly it isn't even looked at.

Why is it that all pro 1080 people never go into the bush?

No. Simply one the country can actually AFFORD to do whilst still controlling the pest population.

And into the bush? I used to tramp and hunt quite a bit until I mashed my ankle. Can't speak for others here though.

[Akzle]

NZ bats were here before any humans, hence are 'native mammals'...but then what do I know??
what you know?
not a lot. Yank. :p

But yes. I stand corrected. 2 species of native bat.

You're such a fucking marsupial.

[Crasherfromwayback]

[ Don't jump on his coattails crasher, he's far more succint than you've been.



It's got nothing at all to do with coattails. More about the fact that none of you guys have answered some really simple questions I've asked you with facts.

And stop trying to use words you don't even know how to correctly spell to sound intelligent. It'll always backfire.

[Akzle]

...none of you guys have answered some really simple questions I've asked you with facts.

And stop trying to use words you don't even know how to correctly spell to sound intelligent. It'll always backfire.

oh gfy.
I'm operating on my phone just now. One fuken typo.
To be clear, what questions? And definitely what facts?
I thought we had you fairly well covered.

[Crasherfromwayback]

oh gfy.
I'm operating on my phone just now. One fuken typo.
To be clear, what questions? And definitely what facts?
I thought we had you fairly well covered.

Cool txt speak now! You're so hip!

Show me facts and figures that show 1080 kills more native species in greater numbers than it saves.

Show me a way we can save our forrests and native wildlife without the use of 1080.

Ps: Aren't you the same guy that thinks it's ok to shoot your neighbours cats or have your dog savage them?

[Berries]

Show me a way we can save our forrests and native wildlife without the use of 1080.
You aren't suggesting that it is working are you and that the forests have been saved? It would appear to me that 1080 has been given a good go now and has done pretty much fuck all. The night before last I took my kids out in to the garden to see their first possum. I see fresh road kill several times a week. Unless you wipe them all out then the others will breed and replace them. A different option is needed otherwise you might as well just drop $20 notes randomly out of a helicopter.

Clean and green New Zealand? Shite.

[Crasherfromwayback]

You aren't suggesting that it is working are you and that the forests have been saved? It would appear to me that 1080 has been given a good go now and has done pretty much fuck all. The night before last I took my kids out in to the garden to see their first possum. I see fresh road kill several times a week. Unless you wipe them all out then the others will breed and replace them. A different option is needed otherwise you might as well just drop $20 notes randomly out of a helicopter.

Clean and green New Zealand? Shite.

Have you read the whole thread? I've said, and will say it again...it's the best way we've got right now of controlling things.

I'll ask you too...name a better solution?

[Berries]

Better than 1080? Well, feeding them with carrots would probably work out much cheaper and be just as succesful in eradicating them.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Better than 1080? Well, feeding them with carrots would probably work out much cheaper and be just as succesful in eradicating them.

lol. Be nice if it was.

[Akzle]

Cool txt speak now! You're so hip!

Show me facts and figures that show 1080 kills more native species in greater numbers than it saves.

Show me a way we can save our forrests and native wildlife without the use of 1080.

Ps: Aren't you the same guy that thinks it's ok to shoot your neighbours cats or have your dog savage them?
:yawn:
1) i am SO hip. i get jiggy wit' it. (GFY means Good For You, honest :P)

2) it kills near-everything. survival rates of native species appear to go up again after an op on account of the populations to kill em haven't got re-established yet either. if they then transplant the species to breed, they pat themselves on the back and chalk it up as a victory.
i have no facts and figures for this, get some googlin' done.

3) "million dollar coon" hunt.

Ps. 4) yes, any animals not controlled by their "owners" (feeders, in case of cats) that are running riot on any property not belonging to that "owner" (feeder, in case of cats), is liable to be shot. this is standard practice in this country. has been for fucking years.

[Crasherfromwayback]

[COLOR="#139922"]:yawn:
1) i am SO hip. i get jiggy wit' it. (GFY means Good For You, honest :P)

]

Cool. I'll go pat myself on the back some more then!

[avgas]

sodium monofluroacetate breaks down in water in to non-toxic molecules. so from that point you're right.
unfortunately so do animal carcasses. which generate toxic molecules and breed bacteria and virii, which DO NOT break down in water. you could dump pound for pound of 1080 in auckland's water tanks and nobody would notice. dump pound for pound of rotting animal flesh... well...
........Its detected by bio-filters and killed with UV.
FYI Whangarei works this way too.......Whau Valley plant may be old, but the guys there are bloody good :niceone:

[avgas]

who's talking billions? where did you even pull that number from? (same as where the rest of you stuff comes from, sounds like.) have i mentioned my "million dollar coon" theorem?
Haha will have to look up the Million $ Coon's sounds hilarious.

But back to facts. Its been mentioned here an amazing number of 7 million.

Say you need to set a trap for each (or reset as the most common case would be), and you waste 1 man hour in walking, trapping etc 1 man hour of trasport + admin.
Thats 14 million man hours. Now we can't give this job to anyone, because lets be honest not many people are going to do a good job of this unless they are paid above minimum wages.

So 14x10^6 x $15/hr = $210 Million.
Now that assumes that we got the whole lot and wiped it out in one go. (As 1080 has attempted).

Reality is these fuckers breed and they are good at it.
So say every 2 have a bubba every year (and underestimate)
7,000,000 x 1.5^n. And you want to wipe them out in 10 years. So 7,000,000 x 1.5^10 = Thats roughly 403 million that need to be killed.
Even if your trapping team is awesome, your looking in the BILLIONS of dollars to fix.

How many coons do you have to sell?

[mashman]

Anyone know what Possum tastes like?

[avgas]

Anyone know what Possum tastes like?
I tried a little. Its bad. Better than dog and horse. But bad.

[Akzle]

Haha will have to look up the Million $ Coon's sounds hilarious.

But back to facts. Its been mentioned here an amazing number of 7 million.

Say you need to set a trap for each (or reset as the most common case would be), and you waste 1 man hour in walking, trapping etc 1 man hour of trasport + admin.
Thats 14 million man hours. Now we can't give this job to anyone, because lets be honest not many people are going to do a good job of this unless they are paid above minimum wages.

So 14x10^6 x $15/hr = $210 Million.
Now that assumes that we got the whole lot and wiped it out in one go. (As 1080 has attempted).

Reality is these fuckers breed and they are good at it.
So say every 2 have a bubba every year (and underestimate)
7,000,000 x 1.5^n. And you want to wipe them out in 10 years. So 7,000,000 x 1.5^10 = Thats roughly 403 million that need to be killed.
Even if your trapping team is awesome, your looking in the BILLIONS of dollars to fix.

How many coons do you have to sell?

fuck. i love maths.

and i love picking holes in people's arguments.
in 1993 there were ("reported") to be 70 million possums. (i know this works against my argument, but you're still wrong)
coons have one breeding per year.
one well placed trap in the space of one week will kill ~5 possums.

china is paying about 4$/coon in fur.

now do THAT maths.

i explained the million dollar coon a few posts back. basically the govt doesn't NEED to employ anyone, just let people loose. the cost would be less than the hundreds of millions spent annually on 1080. and every kid with a slug gun would be out there wounding and maiming the fuckers at the hopes of beer money.


Anyone know what Possum tastes like?
not bad. quantity is a problem. backsteaks are best and rear legs for cutlets now and then, did some biltong once which was bloody good, and once i build a proper biltong box i'll be doing it regularly. green curry goes good too, i want to give bacon-ing a go.
they only graze the freshest, newest, tastiest buds through teh forest and run a lot so the meat is very lean.
although it was reccomended once that for maximum "coon flavour" catch em live and feed em weetbix and milk for 3 days before killing. look up wild game recipes on googeliser.
one of my mates (a rabbiter in the day) reckoned it was better stewed/ broiled etc, personally i don't think it's neccesary. nor do i think rabbit is that much better than. (and the yurp's will pay 30$ for a fuckin rabbit to eat!!)

[FJRider]

fuck. i love maths.

and i love picking holes in people's arguments.
in 1993 there were ("reported") to be 70 million possums. (i know this works against my argument, but you're still wrong)
coons have one breeding per year.
one well placed trap in the space of one week will kill ~5 possums.

china is paying about 4$/coon in fur.

now do THAT maths.

At $4 a skin ... delivered to the buyer. To make dole money ... at least 75 skins a week. So take into account the time taken to lay traps, clear and re-lay traps, skin the possums, treat the hide. Then the cost to deliver the skins to the buyer ....

Even in the low-land pastures and hills of Terenga Paraoa ... with its mild climate ... it would barely be cost/time effective.
In the ranges and forests of the south island (Where the greatest un-controlled Opossum population is) ... where the annual rainfall is measured in metres (and even chopper flying time is limited due to weather)... and good bush skills to get more than metres off the main roads ... it's laughable to think more than a few would attempt to make a living from it in those conditions.

It's easier to stay on the dole and smoke dope. (the hours are better too)


i explained the million dollar coon a few posts back. basically the govt doesn't NEED to employ anyone, just let people loose. the cost would be less than the hundreds of millions spent annually on 1080. and every kid with a slug gun would be out there wounding and maiming the fuckers at the hopes of beer money.

I'm not sure that encouraging kids to go blasting away with slug guns (not the ideal weapon to kill them ... even you are a good shot) is a very good idea. And some have trouble telling the difference between a deer, and a female tramper ... in their spotlight.

[duckonin]

I tried a little. Its bad. Better than dog and horse. But bad.

Ha ha it's all in the way you cook things. A good bit of coon can b alright. A bad bit of dog is shit. A good bit of dog is shit. Horse as long as like most animals it is young, my choice ! :niceone:

[duckonin]

fnot bad. quantity is a problem. backsteaks are best and rear legs for cutlets now and then, did some biltong once which was bloody good, and once i build a proper biltong box i'll be doing it regularly. green curry goes good too, i want to give bacon-ing a go.
they only graze the freshest, newest, tastiest buds through teh forest and run a lot so the meat is very lean.
although it was reccomended once that for maximum "coon flavour" catch em live and feed em weetbix and milk for 3 days before killing. look up wild game recipes on googeliser.
one of my mates (a rabbiter in the day) reckoned it was better stewed/ broiled etc, personally i don't think it's neccesary. nor do i think rabbit is that much better than. (and the yurp's will pay 30$ for a fuckin rabbit to eat!!)


Back steaks are best :killingme Bilton using possums you have to be having us on. Bacon please use pork. Then with a good cut or a bellly use a cup of salt to 2kilos of pork 1/2 a cup of brown sugar , a shaking of black pepper, rubbed with maple syrup, rub all mix into meat well, put into plastic bag that does not leak, turn every day for 4-5 days hang to dry it. Then into the smoker, smoke for two hours on 200 should be cooked, then fridge it till the morn. One to two eggs a couple of slices of your creation of bacon and you have the best of meals. It is simple to make your own bacon it is only salted meat . The sugar/maple syrup is used to tone down the salt.

Next time you are in the supermarket buy yoursef a pork belly, maybe $12 bucks. and try it. Fuck using possies... Oh and by the way again you are wrong possies on good tucker can get quite fat !! :niceone: Now let me know how your bacon comes out. Do it right it will be mint.

[Akzle]

At $4 a skin ... delivered to the buyer. .
no.
4$ worth of plucked fur. about 1 minute per possum.

jeesus. go do some trapping. stop reading google.


Back steaks are best :killingme Bilton using possums you have to be having us on.
nope. it's good. plus. free meat.
i hate to waste shit.

[FJRider]

no.
4$ worth of plucked fur. about 1 minute per possum.

thats about a minute per possum more than many want to spend.


nope. it's good. plus. free meat.
i hate to waste shit.

In my locality ... to me ... rabbit is easier and more plentiful than possum. And tastes better and you can get more money for the meat. Rabbit shooters (licenced and their own rifle [.22]) are in big demand around here.

[mashman]

not bad. quantity is a problem. backsteaks are best and rear legs for cutlets now and then, did some biltong once which was bloody good, and once i build a proper biltong box i'll be doing it regularly. green curry goes good too, i want to give bacon-ing a go.
they only graze the freshest, newest, tastiest buds through teh forest and run a lot so the meat is very lean.
although it was reccomended once that for maximum "coon flavour" catch em live and feed em weetbix and milk for 3 days before killing. look up wild game recipes on googeliser.
one of my mates (a rabbiter in the day) reckoned it was better stewed/ broiled etc, personally i don't think it's neccesary. nor do i think rabbit is that much better than. (and the yurp's will pay 30$ for a fuckin rabbit to eat!!)


Bitchin... just need to learn to shoot and get me a gun. I guess a kebab machine would be good for gettin the skin off?

[Akzle]

Bitchin... just need to learn to shoot and get me a gun. I guess a kebab machine would be good for gettin the skin off?

skinning is an acquired skill.
Again, You tube "sock skinning possum"
Fur buyers will take skins from waikato south. Northland too warm. Skins too thin. But requires salting, tanning etc.
Fur pluck is easy.
Nevermind a shooter, get some leghold traps (8$ trademe)
y'd hav to be fair handycapped to not catch in a trap. (plus i've never had an AOS callout for carrying traps ><)

quite aside, yeh. Git on down to yir local gunclub and lern to use a boomstick.

[mashman]

skinning is an acquired skill.
Again, You tube "sock skinning possum"
Fur buyers will take skins from waikato south. Northland too warm. Skins too thin. But requires salting, tanning etc.
Fur pluck is easy.
Nevermind a shooter, get some leghold traps (8$ trademe)
y'd hav to be fair handycapped to not catch in a trap. (plus i've never had an AOS callout for carrying traps ><)

quite aside, yeh. Git on down to yir local gunclub and lern to use a boomstick.


Skinning? Fuck that! I'll get meself a few herbs and spices and crisp that little fucker up... should that not work the skin should fall off. Fire be good for defurring too?

I need to learn to shoot anyway for when de humanz turnz to zombeez... or at least shoot slightly bigger things should the opportunity present itself.

[BoristheBiter]

Skinning? Fuck that! I'll get meself a few herbs and spices and crisp that little fucker up... should that not work the skin should fall off. Fire be good for defurring too?

I need to learn to shoot anyway for when de humanz turnz to zombeez... or at least shoot slightly bigger things should the opportunity present itself.

The fur is the part you sell dumbarse:killingme

And in May it was worth $109 p/kg

[Crasherfromwayback]

The fur is the part you sell dumbarse:killingme

And in May it was worth $109 p/kg

And it's gorgeous fur too.

[BoristheBiter]

And it's gorgeous fur too.

Every year we do a shoot for the play center in Te Kuiti as fund raising.
I think they make about $1100 for the fur from about 3 to 400 possums.
this is from 2 nights work over a few teams. sounds more profitable than you guys give it credit for.

and it didn't cost the government anything.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Every year we do a shoot for the play center in Te Kuiti as fund raising.
I think they make about $1100 for the fur from about 3 to 400 possums.
this is from 2 nights work over a few teams. sounds more profitable than you guys give it credit for.

and it didn't cost the government anything.

Awesome! And don't get me wrong...I'm all for it. But that ain't my argument.

Mate of mine years ago had a huge possum fur rug...I'd fucking love one to this day!

[george formby]

Every year we do a shoot for the play center in Te Kuiti as fund raising.
I think they make about $1100 for the fur from about 3 to 400 possums.
this is from 2 nights work over a few teams. sounds more profitable than you guys give it credit for.

and it didn't cost the government anything.

One of my customers is part of a pest eradication program up here, stoats, weasels, rats (using a kick arse terrier to find them) and possums. Traps are set in trees. She gets up to a kilo of fur a week depending on the weather, no good in the rain, & she just plucks there bellys! Selling meat is too labour intensive & too many hoops to jump through.
She gave me a possum merkin for my birthday. Lovely girl.

[mashman]

The fur is the part you sell dumbarse:killingme

And in May it was worth $109 p/kg

Why the furk would I want to sell any part of it? Doh, forgot who I was talkin too.


Mate of mine years ago had a huge possum fur rug...I'd fucking love one to this day!

Toupee or Merkin?

[Crasherfromwayback]

Toupee or Merkin?

A one piece double.

[george formby]

A one piece double.

Fook me! How big are the possums down thar?

[mashman]

A one piece double.

:confused: :sick: I'm sorry I asked.

[Crasherfromwayback]

For a person who has sold motorbikes most of their life you are a proper little know all, are you not ?..

In decline in areas 1080 used. 'Every animal including birds and kiwis..That is all animals. Go into an area where '1080 pollard baits' has been used for the following 9 months or so there will be an awful silence. 'NO BIRD LIFE NOTHING AT ALL.' To say otherwise 'you' would of be brain washed by the bureaucracy, the same as the rest of those who do not know the real deal.



You still haven't told us what you do for a living?

http://tbfree.org.nz/Publications-news/News-releases/News-item/xmid/6529

[gammaguy]

Awesome! And don't get me wrong...I'm all for it. But that ain't my argument.

Mate of mine years ago had a huge possum fur rug...I'd fucking love one to this day!

yeh

those welly possums grow huge aye:eek5:

[Crasherfromwayback]

yeh

those welly possums grow huge aye:eek5:

You sure you're not confusing them with the local bus driving lesbo's?