Interesting how the Yanks see NZ

[gammaguy]

came across this post in an American website.....

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2003-Dec/031229b.htm

Remembering Cal Rayborn
icon of american motorcycle racing died december 29 1973
by dean adams
Monday, December 29, 2003
December 29, marks the thirtieth (36th in 2009) anniversary of American racer Cal Rayborn's tragic death at an obscure racetrack and in a more obscure race. Even after three decades, to those that remember Rayborn, both the almost senseless heartbreak of his death and his accomplishments in life remain undiminished.

Will there ever be a more American racer than Cal Rayborn? Square-jawed and tall, Rayborn rode his way into the Harley-Davidson factory team in the 1960s and finished the decade with two Daytona 200 wins and a land speed record for the black and orange. Has there ever been a racer who filled the '70s Harley-Davidson number one t-shirt better than Rayborn?


Rayborn thrashing the field at Laguna Seca in '72.
image from the archive
The name Cal Rayborn brings with it suitcases of legendary racer tales. Rayborn was actually a motorcycle messenger in his native San Diego before he started racing, and quickly elevated beyond the club scene once he started racing bikes on track; most thought he'd already logged thousand of miles at the limit trying to be the fastest motorcycle courier in Southern California.

Later, when he raced for the Harley-Davidson factory team, Rayborn won the Daytona 200 in 1968—lapping the field—and again in 1969, when he and the weakening Harley were up against the hardest competition they would see at the Speedway. Rayborn and the Harley beat the English and Japanese machines for his second Daytona 200 win.

Rayborn was one of the first pure roadracers in America. He raced on the period dirt tracks and was successful there, but his forte was roadracing. For several seasons in the late 1960s a Rayborn win any time the series traveled to a asphalt course was almost a foregone conclusion. With the AMA championship consisting of both dirt track and roadrace events in that era, though, Rayborn never had the numbers to win the title.

His two Daytona 200 wins and the day he won the first-ever roadrace at Laguna Seca not withstanding, Cal Rayborn's greatest triumph never even happened on US soil. In 1972 Rayborn was invited to do the Match Races in England (American riders racing against the Brits on English circuits). Rayborn had never seen the British circuits like Brands Hatch and Mallory Park, and in fact his friend, fellow racer and Daytona 200 winner Don Emde, had to draw track maps on airline cocktail napkins on the flight over to London to illustrate to Rayborn what the tracks were like. What's more, Rayborn did not have the blessing of the Harley factory to race the event, and was not allowed to bring a new factory Harley for the series. With help from the magazine "Motor Cycle Weekly" he brought along an old iron-barrel Harley, and his tuner, Walt Faulk. Incredibly, Rayborn was the top-scoring American of the series and split the wins with the best the British could offer, all on tracks he had never seen before in his life. The fact that the cool British weather didn't exacerbate the quick to burn down Harley was certainly a factor, but because of Rayborn's performance, he came back to America a racing hero.

Then Harley-Davidson race boss Dick O'Brien was a second father to Rayborn and the Californian stuck with the Milwaukee Mafia probably longer than he should have, as the XRs were slowly losing touch in the early 1970s. Rayborn almost left Harley in 1972, but stayed through 1973, signing a contract with Suzuki in late 1973. He would be Suzuki mounted in 1974 and was said to be looking forward to racing Giacamo Agostini at Daytona the next March.

The final Rayborn chapter is gut-wrenching. Rayborn (and racer Mert Lawwill) had a part-time car racing career in 1973; and for reasons that are unclear today, Rayborn left the US in late 1973 to race both a car and a Suzuki in New Zealand on the last weekend of that year. That event would be Cal Rayborn's first race on a Suzuki; (he had raced a 250 Yamaha in the AMA's lightweight class in the early 1970s) he had little big cc two-stroke experience.

The very bike Rayborn was to ride in New Zealand was owned by a dead man—it was racer Geoff Perry's Suzuki, Perry killed en route to Laguna Seca when the Boeing 707 he was riding in crashed soon after take-off from Tahiti in July, 1973.

Rayborn was to race the ex-Perry machine at Pukekohe, a facility which housed both a horse track and a car track in New Zealand, at a glorified club race. What was one of America's greats doing racing a sportsman race on the other side of the world? Theories abound, but start-money, some seat time on a two-stroke and the aforementioned car event certainly were factors.

Rayborn crashed the bike after it seized, and his body slammed into a wall close to the track, with the machine then slamming on top of him. Rayborn was dead at the scene. The name of the turn where he crashed? Champion's Corner.

Rayborn's death sent shock-waves through the American racing scene because he was such a competent racer and well-liked by fans and his fellow racers. King Kenny Roberts was mentored by Rayborn, saying today Rayborn was one of the few veteran riders who would give him straight answers as he was coming through the ranks, and not be concerned with what the young and fast up-start would do with the information. Mentioning Cal Rayborn's name at this time of year will still make the King grow silent, even thirty years after "Calvin's" death.

In the film On Any Sunday Rayborn is shown strolling through a race paddock in the early 1970s, lovingly walking hand in hand with his wife and his eldest son, Jack. They are carrying their then infant son, Calvin Rayborn III, while his contemporaries recall what a wonderful man he was.

Like the death of any father while his children and family are young, Rayborn's untimely and unfortunate death had awful after-effects for the immediate survivors. When one transposes that idyllic Rayborn family scene from On Any Sunday with the reality of what came after Cal Rayborn's death, the words of one sage ring loud and true, "Guys who have families should not race".

ENDS

[tail_end_charlie]

Probably comes from the feeling most American's have that there is always someone to be held responsible for everything that happens. Being able to look at a tradegy and realize it was a accident that could not have been realistically prevented is not a concept that they are able to accept for the most part. Hence the continuos run of lawsuits because people are not able to take responsibility for their own actions. :brick:

And the 'yanks' look at most of the rest of the world as backwater compared to the US, so NZ is in good company.

[jellywrestler]

Full of bullshit, it was Calborns own team who failed to listen to advice on tuning the bike even more than it was and stuffed it up, leading it to seize and throw him off.
I have an idea he'd never raced a two stroke before that either

[george formby]

I think what comes across in that article is the insular Merckan attitude of why would you want to go anywhere else? They have a point too, there is always a lot happening on their home turf. It's common now for racers, predominately Yerpan to travel overseas in the off season to get track time, something A merckans do not need to do. It also comes across that he was here to race, cars & bikes and the man was a racer's racer.

At the time US circuits were just as dangerous as those anywhere else in the world, maybe more so & I see no hint of blame, just puzzlement.

[gammaguy]

Full of bullshit, it was Calborns own team who failed to listen to advice on tuning the bike even more than it was and stuffed it up, leading it to seize and throw him off.
I have an idea he'd never raced a two stroke before that either

I am reliably informed they were running it on a brew of fuel that was untried,and it was jetted too lean.causing the seizure

[jellywrestler]

I am reliably informed they were running it on a brew of fuel that was untried,and it was jetted too lean.causing the seizure
wasn't the first time it had nipped up either that weekend

[Crasherfromwayback]

Pity the finger of blame gets pointed at all really eh.

[avgas]

"NZ you say. So this Euro crisis would be hitting you guys pretty hard then."
Was what one merikan said to me while I was there.

I had to kindly point out to him that we are in the other Hemisphere.
"Oh ok, sorry about that. So do you guys speak Spanish then?"
:brick:

[HenryDorsetCase]

"NZ you say. So this Euro crisis would be hitting you guys pretty hard then."
Was what one merikan said to me while I was there.

I had to kindly point out to him that we are in the other Hemisphere.
"Oh ok, sorry about that. So do you guys speak Spanish then?"
:brick:

Si Senor.

then he will get you to do his yard work.

[Billy]

Full of bullshit, it was Calborns own team who failed to listen to advice on tuning the bike even more than it was and stuffed it up, leading it to seize and throw him off.
I have an idea he'd never raced a two stroke before that either


I am reliably informed they were running it on a brew of fuel that was untried,and it was jetted too lean.causing the seizure

Also the machine belonged to one Joe Lett as I recall,Possibly an ex Geoff Perry machine but all the same,Was running on mentanol and I believe from what I was told on the day,The machine had also jammed on full throttle as the slides which were chromeplated brass had frozen in the aluminium carb bodies,The reason methanol was banned from use in 2 strokes here from that point on,One of the peeps who was trying to help them out was,John Alnutt,Geoff Perrys mechanic and brother in law/

[tail_end_charlie]

"NZ you say. So this Euro crisis would be hitting you guys pretty hard then."
Was what one merikan said to me while I was there.

I had to kindly point out to him that we are in the other Hemisphere.
"Oh ok, sorry about that. So do you guys speak Spanish then?"
:brick:

They are not exactly known for their excellence in world geography knowledge. Another one I like is as follows:

Me: "Yeah, I'm living in New Zealand currently."
Them: "Where??? Oh, you mean New Zeeeeeeeeeeeeeland. That's so cool, I would love to live in a part of Austrialia!!!"

:bash:

[Daffyd]

"NZ you say. So this Euro crisis would be hitting you guys pretty hard then."
Was what one merikan said to me while I was there.

I had to kindly point out to him that we are in the other Hemisphere.
"Oh ok, sorry about that. So do you guys speak Spanish then?"
:brick:

It's like that here in the Philippines. When I tell people I'm from NZ they start rabbiting on about Switzerland!

[Crasherfromwayback]

Also the machine belonged to one Joe Lett as I recall,Possibly an ex Geoff Perry machine but all the same,Was running on mentanol and I believe from what I was told on the day,The machine had also jammed on full throttle as the slides which were chromeplated brass had frozen in the aluminium carb bodies,The reason methanol was banned from use in 2 strokes here from that point on,One of the peeps who was trying to help them out was,John Alnutt,Geoff Perrys mechanic and brother in law/

It's silly, as methanol is actually safer than petrol I reckon. Even if you're 10% rich it'll run really well! Keeps them smokers cooler too.

[Drew]

Perhaps if any of the names mentioned on here are still alive, someone could present a fact list to SBKplanet to write another piece?

Did anyone else notice, that the author didn't even get capital letters for his name? Someone that unimportant shouldn't get published at all I'd have thought.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Perhaps if any of the names mentioned on here are still alive, someone could present a fact list to SBKplanet to write another piece?

Did anyone else notice, that the author didn't even get capital letters for his name? Someone that unimportant shouldn't get published at all I'd have thought.

tell that to e e cummings and he will kick your arse.

[Drew]

tell that to e e cummings and he will kick your arse.Since he's dead, I don't think it's gonna be a problem.

[HenryDorsetCase]

heh heh "cummings"

[Drew]

heh heh "cummings"

My cummings are quite capital.

[HenryDorsetCase]

my cummings are quite capital.

wwop

wwop

[Ender EnZed]

They are not exactly known for their excellence in world geography knowledge.

I've had a conversation with one that was familiar with the Lord of the rings scenery and mountains but thought NZ was a small island next to Jamaica.

[HenryDorsetCase]

a statisticoid I remember reading was that 5% of Mrkns have passports, and >50% of Kiwis do.

[jasonu]

Probably comes from the feeling most American's have that there is always someone to be held responsible for everything that happens. Being able to look at a tradegy and realize it was a accident that could not have been realistically prevented is not a concept that they are able to accept for the most part. Hence the continuos run of lawsuits because people are not able to take responsibility for their own actions. :brick:

And the 'yanks' look at most of the rest of the world as backwater compared to the US, so NZ is in good company.

What do you base these conclusions on? Been there? Lived there? Actually know or have even spoken to anyone from there? Or do you get all of your info from the crack reporting teams of the NZ Herald and/or TVNZ?

[puddytat]

A university graduate I'd met in the states admitted that she hadnt heard of or knew where N.Z was....
She then went on to explain that it was only recently that she'd realised that the state of Alaska was actually attatched th the North American continent. This was because the only atlas she'd seen was of the 52 states of America on the classroom wall & on that map Alaska is an island in the Pacific above Hawaii. Shed always wondered why it had such a straight coastline.

[ellipsis]

What do you base these conclusions on? Been there? Lived there? Actually know or have even spoken to anyone from there? Or do you get all of your info from the crack reporting teams of the NZ Herald and/or TVNZ?


...it is far easier to be critical...not so much thought needed...out of the cities, specially on the west coast I found Americans to be so much like us that it was a pleasure to be with them...per capita I reckon we are becoming as homogenously as thick as any other people/countries on the globe...

[tail_end_charlie]

a statisticoid I remember reading was that 5% of Mrkns have passports, and >50% of Kiwis do.

Don't know the statistics, but in my expierence that would probably be a accurate estimate. The number of American's who have traveled internationally per capita would be quite low compared to Europeans, Canadians, Aussies, Kiwis, ect. I was surprised just how many NZer's had travelled around the world after then got out of school and worked for a couple of years.


What do you base these conclusions on? Been there? Lived there? Actually know or have even spoken to anyone from there? Or do you get all of your info from the crack reporting teams of the NZ Herald and/or TVNZ?

Born, raised, schooled and lived in the States for 26 years. Its the sort of attitude which lets lawsuits (for example, let me put this coffee that I just got from McD drivethru between my legs so that I can take the lid off and put in the sugar and creamer.......OOOOWWWW I just got my thighs burned by said coffee, how could they give me coffee that hot and not tell me its HOT!!!!) not only go to court, but get awarded compensation. The attitude that 'I'm not responsible for what I do, and there is always someone else I can blame for my actions' is very prevalent in American thinking. Granted, this sort of attitude is all over the world, but I think generally American's take it to the extreme, more so then other cultures.

[misterO]

If Americans are as quick to make broad sweeping generalizations as the KB community seems to be then they must be pretty thick, indeed.

[misterO]

Sorry if that came across as a broad sweeping generalization (this IS KB, after all).

[Grumph]

As Billy and others have pointed out the writer of that article has not done his research properly - even the phrase about an obscure little racetrack etc is actually a misquote.
Cycle magazine I'm pretty sure described it as an obscene little racetrack - I remember reading that when it came out and thinking, well, they got that right....

What seems to have been forgotten is that we lost Neville too...which was IMO a far bigger blow for NZ than losing Rayborn was for the US.

[gonzo_akl]

A university graduate I'd met in the states admitted that she hadnt heard of or knew where N.Z was....
She then went on to explain that it was only recently that she'd realised that the state of Alaska was actually attatched th the North American continent. This was because the only atlas she'd seen was of the 52 states of America on the classroom wall & on that map Alaska is an island in the Pacific above Hawaii. Shed always wondered why it had such a straight coastline.

small point - there are 50 states in the US

[scumdog]

They are not exactly known for their excellence in world geography knowledge. Another one I like is as follows:

Me: "Yeah, I'm living in New Zealand currently."
Them: "Where??? Oh, you mean New Zeeeeeeeeeeeeeland. That's so cool, I would love to live in a part of Austrialia!!!"

:bash:

Kiwis are full of thier own feelings of self-importance and expect EVERYBODY to know about them and their country...even if this whole country could be swallowed up in 50+ cities throughout the world.

[scumdog]

Born, raised, schooled and lived in the States for 26 years. Its the sort of attitude which lets lawsuits (for example, let me put this coffee that I just got from McD drivethru between my legs so that I can take the lid off and put in the sugar and creamer.......OOOOWWWW I just got my thighs burned by said coffee, how could they give me coffee that hot and not tell me its HOT!!!!) not only go to court, but get awarded compensation. The attitude that 'I'm not responsible for what I do, and there is always someone else I can blame for my actions' is very prevalent in American thinking. Granted, this sort of attitude is all over the world, but I think generally American's take it to the extreme, more so then other cultures.

Luckily NZ has ACC to cover that sort of thing - including the "I'm not responsible' line of thought.

[steveyb]

Pukekohe was after all, the venue of a round of the NZ Grand Prix back in the days when many of the best F1 drivers would come and compete in it. Can't see how it was any worse than many other tracks around the world.

My Amercan story is an odd one: Asked a PhD candidate at my uni in Michigan when I was teaching there, had he ever been to the ocean?
No.
No? Wow, how old are you?
28.
You keen to see the ocean?
No, not really.

Lost for words at that. He was from Wisconsin, so maybe he thought the land of a thousand lakes was close enough to an ocean.

[scumdog]

Pukekohe was after all, the venue of a round of the NZ Grand Prix back in the days when many of the best F1 drivers would come and compete in it. Can't see how it was any worse than many other tracks around the world.

My Amercan story is an odd one: Asked a PhD candidate at my uni in Michigan when I was teaching there, had he ever been to the ocean?
No.
No? Wow, how old are you?
28.
You keen to see the ocean?
No, not really.

Lost for words at that. He was from Wisconsin, so maybe he thought the land of a thousand lakes was close enough to an ocean.

We have similar people here in NZ - I've met some that have never been further than 500km from home.

[Bald Eagle]

We have similar people here in NZ - I've met some that have never been further than 500km from home.

Yep but everywhere in NZ is less than 500km from the ocean.

[ktm84mxc]

That should be 120k's from the ocean, the yanks problems start and finish with there schooling it causes them to look inwards and not out to see a big picture/view.

[Bald Eagle]

The Yanks have given us;
The Atomic Bomb
Harley Davidsons
Global economic crisis ..
Law suits for everything
Contents may hot labels on coffee cups...



I think I can live without them.

[ktm84mxc]

You forgot the Great Depression , which lead to WW2.

[GD66]

Perhaps if any of the names mentioned on here are still alive, someone could present a fact list to SBKplanet to write another piece?

Did anyone else notice, that the author didn't even get capital letters for his name? Someone that unimportant shouldn't get published at all I'd have thought.




Soup website has a long history of Dean Adams' ramblings on it and this appalling piece of tripe is indicative of his dubious talents in the field of journalism. I have had a swing at him on this topic on other websites over a few years because of his poor research and assumptive, patronising treatment of those involved in the meeting and the series, describing the Marlboro Series' first foray to Pukekohe as "some insignificant club meet". I was involved in that meeting, and because we were so entranced with the idea of the great Cal Rayborn's involvement with the series, even though it was an extremely ad-hoc affair, that the unfolding terror of what happened in front of our eyes at the end of lap 1 will live with us forever. Yes, things went wrong on a number of levels, but Joe Lett has incorrectly been brought into question as a scapegoat by uninformed guesswork by many, and my recollection of the way things unfolded was that the crew, after mediocre practice performance from the bike, decided to convert to alcohol on the day, and without testing. But the chief protagonist was in fact Cal's stepfather and acting chief wrench Lou Kaiser. Cal didn't seem to fazed by the idea, but the idea of a more competitive bike held great appeal, and this I believe to be the root of the problem. The rest we know...:(

[Henk]

We have similar people here in NZ - I've met some that have never been further than 500km from home.

500 km? I worked with a woman in her 30s about ten years ago who had never been as far as either the Bombays or the Brynderwyns. Wouldn't be surprised if she still hasn't been.

[roogazza]

Soup website has a long history of Dean Adams' ramblings on it and this appalling piece of tripe is indicative of his dubious talents in the field of journalism. I have had a swing at him on this topic on other websites over a few years because of his poor research and assumptive, patronising treatment of those involved in the meeting and the series, describing the Marlboro Series' first foray to Pukekohe as "some insignificant club meet". I was involved in that meeting, and because we were so entranced with the idea of the great Cal Rayborn's involvement with the series, even though it was an extremely ad-hoc affair, that the unfolding terror of what happened in front of our eyes at the end of lap 1 will live with us forever. Yes, things went wrong on a number of levels, but Joe Lett has incorrectly been brought into question as a scapegoat by uninformed guesswork by many, and my recollection of the way things unfolded was that the crew, after mediocre practice performance from the bike, decided to convert to alcohol on the day, and without testing. But the chief protagonist was in fact Cal's stepfather and acting chief wrench Lou Kaiser. Cal didn't seem to fazed by the idea, but the idea of a more competitive bike held great appeal, and this I believe to be the root of the problem. The rest we know...:(

Yep GD66, pretty much what we heard on the day. Where have all those years gone ?

[GD66]

They sure have whistled by Gaz, but happily I'm still having fun at the races...:cool:

[pritch]

I was at Pukekohe the day Rayborn was killed, I didn't see the accident though, I was toward the other end of the track.

Not sure it was a "club race" exactly, even a glorified one, as I'd ridden the CB500 up from New Plymouth to watch the meeting and I wouldn't normally have done that for a club race.

The Yank motorcycle press at the time referred to Pukekohe as an obscure track which I thought was a bit harsh. In the early days the cream of the worlds F1 drivers came to NZ for the GP.

[Crasherfromwayback]

The Yank motorcycle press at the time referred to Pukekohe as an obscure track which I thought was a bit harsh. .

Guess to some Yanks...if it's not in USA, it's 'obscure'!

[SPman]

I was at Pukekohe the day Rayborn was killed, I didn't see the accident though, I was toward the other end of the track.

Not sure it was a "club race" exactly, even a glorified one, as I'd ridden the CB500 up from New Plymouth to watch the meeting and I wouldn't normally have done that for a club race.

The Yank motorcycle press at the time referred to Pukekohe as an obscure track which I thought was a bit harsh. In the early days the cream of the worlds F1 drivers came to NZ for the GP.I was there as well. I thought it was a national meeting? Ah....the Tasman series......the best time to be watching motor racing in NZ.
A guy at work who was there, racing a TR500, said Ray born was in the habit of leaning off his Harley a tad before a race! Not the thing to do on a fussy stroker.......old habits may have cost him his life.........

[wharfy]

The Yanks have given us;
The Atomic Bomb
Harley Davidsons
Global economic crisis ..
Law suits for everything
Contents may hot labels on coffee cups...



I think I can live without them.
But they did give us Hamburgers, the internet, Bourbon and the Ford V8 :)

All the Americans I have ever actually met have been warm, generous friendly people (and with a sense of humor) Kiwi's may be one of the "most traveled" people on the planet but that doesn't stop a hell of a lot of them from being ignorant, bigoted - um.... pricks really.

[Drew]

Bigots, funny thing that. What would be the word for slamming an entire nation of people, based mostly on second hand information do ya reckon?

[scumdog]

All the Americans I have ever actually met have been warm, generous friendly people (and with a sense of humor) Kiwi's may be one of the "most traveled" people on the planet but that doesn't stop a hell of a lot of them from being ignorant, bigoted - um.... pricks really.


Kinda sums up my experiences and thoughts...:yes:

[wharfy]

Bigots, funny thing that. What would be the word for slamming an entire nation of people, based mostly on second hand information do ya reckon?

Ignorant/bigot/prick any of those would do, or you could use a thesaurus and look up plenty of others. I think for journalists the term "hack" is used to describe one who doesn't do their homework.

I'm sometimes bigoted - but only when I know I'm right. :)

[GD66]

Also the machine belonged to one Joe Lett as I recall,Possibly an ex Geoff Perry machine but all the same,Was running on mentanol and I believe from what I was told on the day,The machine had also jammed on full throttle as the slides which were chromeplated brass had frozen in the aluminium carb bodies,The reason methanol was banned from use in 2 strokes here from that point on,One of the peeps who was trying to help them out was,John Alnutt,Geoff Perrys mechanic and brother in law/



Definitely a seizure Billy, as soon as he rolled the throttle off to tip it in the back end locked up and stepped out.
Jon Allnatt was Geoff's mechanic but Geoff's brother-in-law was Alan Franklin, who was married to sister Dale.

[pete376403]

As Billy and others have pointed out the writer of that article has not done his research properly - even the phrase about an obscure little racetrack etc is actually a misquote.
Cycle magazine I'm pretty sure described it as an obscene little racetrack - I remember reading that when it came out and thinking, well, they got that right....

What seems to have been forgotten is that we lost Neville too...which was IMO a far bigger blow for NZ than losing Rayborn was for the US.

Thats how I remember the Cycle mag article as well.

(I had about 10-15 years - from the 1969 Buyers Guide special onward- of Cycles in a box in the attic - gave them away. One of a fairly long list of things I regret doing)

[Crasherfromwayback]

The Yanks have given us;
The Atomic Bomb
Harley Davidsons
Global economic crisis ..
Law suits for everything
Contents may hot labels on coffee cups...



I think I can live without them.

They also saved our sorry arses a wee while ago.

[SPman]

They also saved our sorry arses a wee while ago. Quite a wee while ago......
Nothing wrong with most Yank's, althoughwe found it interesting how they can be so similar to us, yet completely different at the same time - it's just their Administration and Government that sucks big time!

[Crasherfromwayback]

Quite a wee while ago......
Nothing wrong with most Yank's, althoughwe found it interesting how they can be so similar to us, yet completely different at the same time - it's just their Administration and Government that sucks big time!

Indeed. Doesn't lesson the good of it though.

I've always found Americans to be some of the most honest, warmest, funniest and most open people you could hope to meet. Absolutely loved my time there, and can't wait to go back.

[The Lone Rider]

"NZ you say. So this Euro crisis would be hitting you guys pretty hard then."
Was what one merikan said to me while I was there.

I had to kindly point out to him that we are in the other Hemisphere.
"Oh ok, sorry about that. So do you guys speak Spanish then?"
:brick:

Other than general ignorance than I will admit of my compatriots, it is also the case we simply don't give a fuck where places like NZ are. Unless we have to live here.

Speaking from the heart. :whocares:

[Bald Eagle]

They also saved our sorry arses a wee while ago.

Then sent the bill which wasn't paid off till 2006.

http://www.politics.co.uk/news/2006/12/29/britain-finally-pays-off-wwii-debt
Britain will today make the last repayment on loans lent by the US and Canada during the second world war - 61 years ago.

[merv]

We talked about this a few years ago here http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/1522-Remembering-Cal-Rayborn? (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/1522-Remembering-Cal-Rayborn?highlight=cal+rayborn) Similar insights.

Also Soup has a story on Geoff Perry which we talked about here a while back http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/16569-Nice-to-see-the-Yanks-remembering-Geoff-Perry? (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/16569-Nice-to-see-the-Yanks-remembering-Geoff-Perry?highlight=cal+rayborn)

[jellywrestler]

quote "To this day stories are repeated about parts from Perry's bike being used on the motorcycle that Pat Hennen crashed at the Isle of Man, which is said to be the same bike Cal Rayborn was killed on in New Zealand."

perry Died in the early 70's never having ridden an RG500 square four, only the twins TR500 (73?) and Hennen was riding an RG factory bike at the TT on the other side of the world why on earth would anyone link the two????
just goes to show how fucked up some peoples reporting is!

[Road kill]

But they did give us Hamburgers, the internet, Bourbon and the Ford V8 :)

All the Americans I have ever actually met have been warm, generous friendly people (and with a sense of humor) Kiwi's may be one of the "most traveled" people on the planet but that doesn't stop a hell of a lot of them from being ignorant, bigoted - um.... pricks really.

Yeah,second that word for word.
Ok,,apart from that Ford bit.....Mopar for life brother:msn-wink:

[scumdog]

Yeah,second that word for word.
Ok,,apart from that Ford bit.....Mopar for life brother:msn-wink:

I guess Ford having a V8 before Mopar was his point - but a 340 is a mighty-fine little motor!

[Drew]

I guess Ford having a V8 before Mopar was his point - but a 340 is a mighty-fine little motor!

It's no 426

[wharfy]

I guess Ford having a V8 before Mopar was his point - but a 340 is a mighty-fine little motor!

Actually the history of the V8 engine is quite interesting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V8_engine#History

Shame the credit has to go to those "red wine swilling, garlic eating, Renault driving, Rainbow Warrior sinking bastards" - I'm not bigoted honest :)

[slowpoke]

Jeezus, the ol' patriotic fervour strikes on both sides of the argument!

I've followed 'Soup and Dean Adams for years, he's a funny, irreverent and at times enlightening writer. But he's a one eyed patriot too, so anything "american vs rest of world" type stuff I take with a grain of salt. Pretty much like anything "Kiwi vs rest of world", that I read. Just check out some of the blatherings regarding the Britten story and the same fact vs fiction disconnect crops up. We're all guilty of it.

FYI, I was in Perth for some training a coupla weeks ago and went to the best motoring bookshop in Australasia, where I picked up amongst other things a DVD on the Can-Am series. Funny as fuck, 'cos the opening scene was a Can-Am race at Laguna Seca in 1970, viewed just a coupla days after the Laguna MotoGP race, 2012. Holy shit the place looked raggedy! Puke would have appeared much the same, back in the day. Trouble is Puke and most NZ tracks look much the same now, whereas any supposedly world class track has taken giant leaps forward.

Puke? A backwater? Realistically that doesn't sound too far from the mark. Tasman/Marlboro series or not, it's never been top of the pops for World Championship participation has it?

[Crasherfromwayback]

Jeezus, the ol' patriotic fervour strikes on both sides of the argument!



FFS man. This is Kiwibiker. Why do you insist on posting things that make sense and are well thought out?

You don't belong here.

[avgas]

Other than general ignorance than I will admit of my compatriots, it is also the case we simply don't give a fuck where places like NZ are. Unless we have to live here.
Speaking from the heart. :whocares:
Fair call. People assume too much of the Americans. Its better to lower standards.

Besides NZ has this horrible mentality that we need to be on the world scale. I have been to McDonalds in Shanghai with a larger population than us. Fact of the matter is NZ is a little TINY country off the arse-end of the world. The fact that we can buy anything internationally is a miracle - let alone for the relatively low price we do get goods for.

[Crasherfromwayback]

it is also the case we simply don't give a fuck where places like NZ are. Unless we have to live here.

:

You don't HAVE to live here. You could fuck right off to where ever you think is best.

[merv]

I like America and love the humour on Soup and do find the people over there friendly, just I'd prefer they weren't in control of guns. I was there in Arizona when Gabby Giffords got shot and I'm just not impressed that those with a screw loose have such access to firearms, but then I had to change motels in Napier the day Molenaar went loose too (motel we booked ended up in the cordon), so perhaps its me that's always in the wrong place and its not just USA that's a problem.

[scumdog]

FFS man. This is Kiwibiker. Why do you insist on posting things that make sense and are well thought out?

You don't belong here.

True Pete, logic has no place on this site...

[Madness]

You don't HAVE to live here. You could fuck right off to where ever you think is best.

I reckon we shoud do a gool old fashoined Kiwi whip-round for the airfare (one-way, of course).

[scumdog]

I like America and love the humour on Soup and do find the people over there friendly, just I'd prefer they weren't in control of guns. I was there in Arizona when Gabby Giffords got shot and I'm just not impressed that those with a screw loose have such access to firearms, but then I had to change motels in Napier the day Molenaar went loose too (motel we booked ended up in the cordon), so perhaps its me that's always in the wrong place and its not just USA that's a problem.

'Dead' right Merv - our gun laws are draconian - but it still doesn't stop a fruit-loop going berserk...

[Dean Adams]

Hello

This is Dean Adams from Superbikeplanet.com. I was just sitting down to start writing a follow up to my Cal Rayborn story--written so many years ago--with help from Scott Brelsford who was in NZ that day-- when came across this forum and have read your wonderfully well thought out critiques.

I'd love to converse with anyone on the subject of Cal Rayborn and NZ and anything I have written on his death in NZ. I can be reached via the site's email address, hardscrabblemedia@earthlink.net.

I don't know who GD66 is but I do not recall speaking with anyone on a forum about the day Rayborn died. This is the first forum I have joined in at least a decade, FWIW. Again if anyone in NZ would like to have a rational conversation I'm very open to any dialog.
Thanks and Merry Christmas
Dean

I have had a swing at him on this topic on other websites over a few years because of his poor research and assumptive, patronising treatment of those involved in the meeting and the series, describing the Marlboro Series' first foray to Pukekohe as "some insignificant club meet". I was involved in that meeting, and because we were so entranced with the idea of the great Cal Rayborn's involvement with the series, even though it was an extremely ad-hoc affair, that the unfolding terror of what happened in front of our eyes at the end of lap 1 will live with us forever.

[Dean Adams]

I think it has been the style of the Superbikeplanet.com web site to publish bylines in lower case since around 1998. We have published stories written by Julian Ryder, Kevin Schwantz and a host of others, all with bylines in lower case and until now no one has suggested we've done so .... because the authors lack respect.


Perhaps if any of the names mentioned on here are still alive, someone could present a fact list to SBKplanet to write another piece?

Did anyone else notice, that the author didn't even get capital letters for his name? Someone that unimportant shouldn't get published at all I'd have thought.

[Dean Adams]

I'd love to discuss my story with you, whoever you are. hardscrabblemedia@earthlink.net. -- Dean Adams



Soup website has a long history of Dean Adams' ramblings on it and this appalling piece of tripe is indicative of his dubious talents in the field of journalism. I have had a swing at him on this topic on other websites over a few years because of his poor research and assumptive, patronising treatment of those involved in the meeting and the series, describing the Marlboro Series' first foray to Pukekohe as "some insignificant club meet". I was involved in that meeting, and because we were so entranced with the idea of the great Cal Rayborn's involvement with the series, even though it was an extremely ad-hoc affair, that the unfolding terror of what happened in front of our eyes at the end of lap 1 will live with us forever. Yes, things went wrong on a number of levels, but Joe Lett has incorrectly been brought into question as a scapegoat by uninformed guesswork by many, and my recollection of the way things unfolded was that the crew, after mediocre practice performance from the bike, decided to convert to alcohol on the day, and without testing. But the chief protagonist was in fact Cal's stepfather and acting chief wrench Lou Kaiser. Cal didn't seem to fazed by the idea, but the idea of a more competitive bike held great appeal, and this I believe to be the root of the problem. The rest we know...:(

[Drew]

I think it has been the style of the Superbikeplanet.com web site to publish bylines in lower case since around 1998. We have published stories written by Julian Ryder, Kevin Schwantz and a host of others, all with bylines in lower case and until now no one has suggested we've done so .... because the authors lack respect.It was tongue in cheek man, don't take it personal like.

On a less joking note, why the lower case?

drew.

[slowpoke]

Hello

This is Dean Adams from Superbikeplanet.com. I was just sitting down to start writing a follow up to my Cal Rayborn story--written so many years ago--with help from Scott Brelsford who was in NZ that day-- when came across this forum and have read your wonderfully well thought out critiques.

I'd love to converse with anyone on the subject of Cal Rayborn and NZ and anything I have written on his death in NZ. I can be reached via the site's email address, hardscrabblemedia@earthlink.net.

I don't know who GD66 is but I do not recall speaking with anyone on a forum about the day Rayborn died. This is the first forum I have joined in at least a decade, FWIW. Again if anyone in NZ would like to have a rational conversation I'm very open to any dialog.
Thanks and Merry Christmas
Dean



Bloody hell Dean I thought you were smarter than this, lol. 10 years off forums? Do yourself a favour and make it longer! I keep swearing myself off this one, find something that puts a burr under my saddle, relent/respond and next thing ya know it's all hissy fits and hyperventilating all over again.....don't do it!

Love your website by the way, it's a refreshing blend of insight and information all mixed up with a healthy dose of cynicism. Keep up the great work......now run while ya still can!

[Kickaha]

. Again if anyone in NZ would like to have a rational conversation I'm very open to any dialog.
You've come to the wrong place for that

[GD66]

Nothing to add, really Dean. That was then, this is now. I must say your perception of the situation in MotoGP comes across as very incisive, and your reporting of the Stoner v Rossi mental struggle this year has been good reading.

[GD66]

Those wondering about my grumbling about the veracity of these events can make up their own mind, Superbike Planet have re-published the column as a "forty-years-on" feature on their front page.

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2003-Dec/031229b.htm

[sugilite]

He has done another article now, find it at .... http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Dec/121229rayborn39.htm

I wonder where this fan-dangled Wanaque track is, bet it kicks Wanganui circuits arse :lol:

For the record, I really enjoy Dean Adam's articles :yes:

[GD66]

By and large, I don't mind them either, but he does himself no favours when writing based upon poor research.
He has come up short again here, giving the impression that Scott Brelsford's Harley may have been available for Rayborn to have ridden at Pukekohe, when in fact subsequently Gracefield and Timaru went by and it wasn't until the final round of the series at Ruapuna that the Harley finally cleared customs and could turn out on the track. Also I doubt it would be such a great surprise when Scott went for his ride to find sheep on the track at Wanague (sic), as apart from Boxing Day the circuit is just town streets, so cars, trucks and indeed rail wagons could also potentially be in the mix. Not bagging Scott, as he is a good guy and was a great ambassador for the sport during the series while patiently awaiting the arrival of the Harley, but again the article lacks balance.
The whole situation was exremely sad and unfortunate, so patchy reporting, even 39 years later, doesn't help.

[slowpoke]

Nothing to add, really Dean. That was then, this is now.


By and large, I don't mind them either, but he does himself no favours when writing based upon poor research.
He has come up short again here, giving the impression that Scott Brelsford's Harley may have been available for Rayborn to have ridden at Pukekohe, when in fact subsequently Gracefield and Timaru went by and it wasn't until the final round of the series at Ruapuna that the Harley finally cleared customs and could turn out on the track. Also I doubt it would be such a great surprise when Scott went for his ride to find sheep on the track at Wanague (sic), as apart from Boxing Day the circuit is just town streets, so cars, trucks and indeed rail wagons could also potentially be in the mix. Not bagging Scott, as he is a good guy and was a great ambassador for the sport during the series while patiently awaiting the arrival of the Harley, but again the article lacks balance.
The whole situation was exremely sad and unfortunate, so patchy reporting, even 39 years later, doesn't help.

Sorry, but I'm going to respectfully disagree. From my reading Dean's article it made it plain that the bike was expected on the day of the race:

"Brelsford's Harley-Davidson racer sat on a boat between California and Auckland, due to be shipped to the track on the day of the race, or so they hoped."

Hence they discussed Rayborn riding it....but the article also makes it plain it didn't turn up:

"In the end, his bike did not make it to the track in time for either official practice or the race"

Balance? It was a personal interview, telling the terrible story from Brelsford's personal perspective. And you yourself declined to elaborate when the door was opened to further dialogue.

Sorry, terrible thing to have been involved with I know, I'm just trying to offer a lil' objectivity.

[Dreama]

You forgot the Great Depression , which lead to WW2.

oh fuck .....and this thread is about American ignorance ????

[Road kill]

oh fuck .....and this thread is about American ignorance ????

That took a while<_<