John Key's obligations?

[awa355]

Should John Key go to his sons Baseball game in the states or stay home and show that the sacrifice of our two soldiers deserves respect and public acknowledgement from the highest office in the country by attending the funerals??


Personally, I believe his decision to go to a baseball game shows a complete lack of respect for the families of these fallen soldiers.

I know that polititians familys miss out a lot, but there are times when the responsibilities of his position have to come first. It's not as though his son is a small child.

[MIXONE]

Agree with you there mate.

[PirateJafa]

Why on earth the PM is considered "obligated" to attend a funeral is beyond me, barring maybe some large state funeral like Sir Ed's.

Yes, it was a tragic thing for those involved, and from the sounds of it they went out bravely going to the aid of others under attack - but it was a possibility I suspect was listed in the job description they signed up for.

The PM should theoretically have more important things to do, what with being the leader of the country. Whether watching a baseball game is or not, is another matter. But that people feel that he "has" to go, and drag in the usual plethora of reporters and hanger-ons/gofers along with him to a funeral is daft.

[Katman]

Why on earth the PM is considered "obligated" to attend a funeral is beyond me, barring maybe some large state funeral like Sir Ed's.

Yes, it was a tragic thing for those involved, and from the sounds of it they went out bravely going to the aid of others under attack - but it was a possibility I suspect was listed in the job description they signed up for.

The PM should theoretically have more important things to do, what with being the leader of the country. Whether watching a baseball game is or not, is another matter. But that people feel that he "has" to go, and drag in the usual plethora of reporters and hanger-ons/gofers along with him to a funeral is daft.

Totally agree.

Tragic as these soldier's deaths are, there are countless other deaths equally tragic.

Attending funerals would be a full time job for John Key if he attended them all.

[blue rider]

Dear leader has no obligations. He is dear leader and does what he wants. :oi-grr:

[jellywrestler]

Should John Key go to his sons Baseball game in the states or stay home and show that the sacrifice of our two soldiers deserves respect and public acknowledgement from the highest office in the country by attending the funerals??


Personally, I believe his decision to go to a baseball game shows a complete lack of respect for the families of these fallen soldiers.

I know that polititians familys miss out a lot, but there are times when the responsibilities of his position have to come first. It's not as though his son is a small child.

Personally I wonder why the fuck our Prime Minister should even think of attending the funerals of the Soldiers.
They are employed in a job where there is a risk of death, moreso than pretty well any other public servant.
They die, we have to pay a bomb as taxpayers to get their bodies back here and then everyone expects the Prime Minister to drop everything to show boat it all.
Makes no sense at all to me

[Scuba_Steve]

if you want a "leader" to attend the funeral of these soldiers, it should be Obama you want, or at very least Bush... it's their war!

[Robert Taylor]

Personally I wonder why the fuck our Prime Minister should even think of attending the funerals of the Soldiers.
They are employed in a job where there is a risk of death, moreso than pretty well any other public servant.
They die, we have to pay a bomb as taxpayers to get their bodies back here and then everyone expects the Prime Minister to drop everything to show boat it all.
Makes no sense at all to me

Maybe he should stock aroound and be insistent on the Maoris cleaning up the volcanic ash fallout, after all they own it

[hayd3n]

why would you even want jk at your funeral?

[Road kill]

Maybe he should stock aroound and be insistent on the Maoris cleaning up the volcanic ash fallout, after all they own it

Actually,they gave it to all New Zealanders and it's called a national park.

So grab a shovel and get the fuck over there.

[Slyer]

Agreed with Jafa and Katman. Soldiers dying is no more tragic than civilians dying, and we don't expect him to attend all civilian funerals.

[onearmedbandit]

Plus one to 'why should he have to go'. As he said in his statement, his family have to sacrifice a lot because of his job, more-so than a lot of other families. I applaud him for spending time with his son.

[Oakie]

Should John Key go to his sons Baseball game in the states or

It's a bit more than a baseball game ... it's the World Series (and unusually the yanks have actually invited the world). John Key said his son has sacrificed a lot with his dad being PM and JK going too is a bit of payback for the boy.

[Bald Eagle]

Any chance we can arrange JK's ticket to be one way. He could stay with his banker mates and his best budd Obama will look after him.

[tigertim20]

Should John Key go to his sons Baseball game in the states or stay home and show that the sacrifice of our two soldiers deserves respect and public acknowledgement from the highest office in the country by attending the funerals??


Personally, I believe his decision to go to a baseball game shows a complete lack of respect for the families of these fallen soldiers.

I know that polititians familys miss out a lot, but there are times when the responsibilities of his position have to come first. It's not as though his son is a small child.

whether he is there or not doesnt mean shit.

the guys are dead, they arent coming back, john key's presence or lack there-of neither changes that, nor means he lacks respect. a bit of perspective maybe? He has just had the sad news that two very young men were killed in action, those young men had families. I imagine that seeing something like that would compel any father to make damn sure he took advantage of what time he had with his children.

[Jantar]

The death of any soldier is regrettable and they deserve respect for the risks they take in performing their everyday job. JK is NOT the correct person to represent the nation at their funeral, and neither is the deputy PM as his standin. The correct representitive would be the minister of defence if any political representation is required at all. However I believe that the soldier's imediate commander should be the country's sole representive at the invidual funerals and that JK etc, along with the rest of New Zealand, should pay their respects to all fallen servicemen on 25th April.

Can you imagine Obama attending 8000+ funerals per year?

[Scuba_Steve]

Any chance we can arrange JK's ticket to be one way. He could stay with his banker mates and his best budd Obama will look after him.

I don't know, but I heard he was carrying drugs hidden on his person :shifty: :whistle:

[flyingcrocodile46]

Should John Key go to his sons Baseball game in the states or stay home and show that the sacrifice of our two soldiers deserves respect and public acknowledgement from the highest office in the country by attending the funerals??


Personally, I believe his decision to go to a baseball game shows a complete lack of respect for the families of these fallen soldiers.

I know that polititians familys miss out a lot, but there are times when the responsibilities of his position have to come first. It's not as though his son is a small child.

If the soldiers were new All Blacks and their parents were avid National party supporters, should they go to John Keys funeral rather than the rugby world cup to support their sons during their first ever game for the All blacks?

Family should always come first imo.

[Scuba_Steve]

If the soldiers were new All Blacks and their parents were avid National party supporters, should they go to John Keys funeral rather than the rugby world cup to support their sons during their first ever game for the All blacks?


Yes... but only long enough to make sure the fuckers dead!!! :devil2:

[jellywrestler]

Can you imagine Obama attending 8000+ funerals per year? the cunt would be mighty sick of sausage rolls and asparagus sammies I'm picking

[oldrider]

Should John Key go to his sons Baseball game in the states or stay home and show that the sacrifice of our two soldiers deserves respect and public acknowledgement from the highest office in the country by attending the funerals??


Personally, I believe his decision to go to a baseball game shows a complete lack of respect for the families of these fallen soldiers.

I know that polititians familys miss out a lot, but there are times when the responsibilities of his position have to come first. It's not as though his son is a small child.

Isn't that the reason our soldiers do what they do? ... so that we can continue to be free to do what we do!

The most respect that he could show them is to honour their sacrifice by not wasting his own opportunities to live free! JMHO. :yes:

Thank you thank you thank you brave soldiers! R.I.P.

[FJRider]

The real honour is in the Military funeral. Who shows up for it is secondary.

I wouldn't want anybody at my funeral that didn't want to be there .... so I guess when that time comes ... it'll be me and .... Well I'll be there anyway.

And plenty ofservice people have died on active service before without the PM attending their funeral ... what make THIS one so special ... ???

[Jantar]

...... so I guess when that time comes ... it'll be me and ....
I'll be there Trev. Can't pass up an opportunity for all that free beer you'll be putting on at the RSA. :D

[FJRider]

I'll be there Trev. Can't pass up an opportunity for all that free beer you'll be putting on at the RSA. :D

You are older ... :beer:

[scott411]

its a simple decision that the John Key haters will find the bad side of, and his supporters will find the good out of,

[Rhubarb]

. I imagine that seeing something like that would compell any father to make damn sure he took advantage of what time he had with his children.

Damn right - very well said Tigertim20

[Pixie]

if you want a "leader" to attend the funeral of these soldiers, it should be Obama you want, or at very least Bush... it's their war!

And if they were to attend the question of key's attendance would be solved as he would have his tongue inserted in their arses.

[Gremlin]

NZ seems to have forgotten what it's like to have a family man/woman as Prime Minister. HC would even conveniently forget she had a husband at times...

[MisterD]

HC would even conveniently forget she had a husband at times...

HC would never have missed a bit of corpse-cuddling, she was all over that Mulianga woman, that died for want of an extension lead, like a cheap suit...

[SimJen]

Good on him for standing his ground and sticking with family, family comes first no matter how special you are/aren't!
I don't care for politics, but I don't think politicians need to be at these things, besides it always looks like an attempt to get support!

[Oakie]

. HC would even conveniently forget she had a husband at times...
He was only a decorative husband.

[schrodingers cat]

Well if he went to the funeral he'd get caned for being a shameless media whore.
Might as well go see your boy and enjoy your life.

And speaking of GET A LIFE!

[Zamiam]

GET A LIFE!

I'll second that!

[SPman]

He should go to see his son play - and preferably not come back!
The man's a sociopathic aresehole and a complete disgrace as a prime minister!
But....everyone seems to like him.

Tells you a lot about the NZ public........

[Brett]

Should John Key go to his sons Baseball game in the states or stay home and show that the sacrifice of our two soldiers deserves respect and public acknowledgement from the highest office in the country by attending the funerals??


Personally, I believe his decision to go to a baseball game shows a complete lack of respect for the families of these fallen soldiers.

I know that polititians familys miss out a lot, but there are times when the responsibilities of his position have to come first. It's not as though his son is a small child.

He did visit the families privately first. Is it enough? I'm not sure either way.

[Brian d marge]

He should go to see his son play - and preferably not come back!
The man's a sociopathic aresehole and a complete disgrace as a prime minister!
But....everyone seems to like him.

Tells you a lot about the NZ public........

True , and he did visit first , the families may NOT have wanted him there ......

worse is the NZ press ,,,,now they are ......

Stephen

[ducatilover]

Wait, what's the big deal about?
Bunch of bleeding wimmin.

[Smifffy]

I think that the family of the fallen would agree that it is better to spend time with your son at his important life events while he is alive. I'm sure they have been thinking of those times that they placed other obligations ahead of their loved ones. Now those other obligations don't seem quite as important, do they?

Don't make this about John Key or defence policy, or whatever; this is about Rory & Pralli. Two guys who gave everything, doing a job they believed in. The country & the NZDF honours their sacrifice. I have no doubt that there will be plenty of people that they respected far more than the PM who will be present at the funeral.

They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning,
We will remember them.

[scott411]

I think that the family of the fallen would agree that it is better to spend time with your son at his important life events while he is alive. I'm sure they have been thinking of those times that they placed other obligations ahead of their loved ones. Now those other obligations don't seem quite as important, do they?

Don't make this about John Key or defence policy, or whatever; this is about Rory & Pralli. Two guys who gave everything, doing a job they believed in. The country & the NZDF honours their sacrifice. I have no doubt that there will be plenty of people that they respected far more than the PM who will be present at the funeral.

They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning,
We will remember them.

most likely the best post i have ever read on kiwibiker, just wanted to quote it to see it up here again,

[Maki]

Let's put this into perspective. This is not just any funeral. This is the funeral of two killed in a single incident, the greatest number of NZ deaths in a single incident since the Vietnam war. The population of the USA is roughly 100 times more than the population of NZ. Does anyone here think Obama would be watching a baseball game during the funeral of 200 US soldiers killed in a single incident...

What you think is or is not appropriate really depends on your point of view and what you think is important. You may view the soldiers as a couple of morons who signed up for death, got dead and so what. Or you could think of them as men who laid down their lives in the service of their country.

My view is that they were sent there to fight for a free trade agreement with the USA, by the government headed by JK. Since he is ultimately responsible he should take everything that goes with it, including the sacrifice of a baseball game. The men he sent to their deaths won't be looking at any more baseball games and they will never again be around for their children. JK is ultimately responsible for that.

On the other hand the families may not have wanted him around and in that case I have no problem with his decision. Maybe he should just stick to baseball...

[Oakie]

My view is that they were sent there to fight for a free trade agreement with the USA, by the government headed by JK.

If you want to allocate 'responsibility' you should bear in mind that it was in fact Helen Clark and her government who originally sent NZ troops to Afghanistan in 2001 and continued to do so through the remainder of their time in power. JK and his government have merely extended the commitment Auntie Helen et al made.

[CookMySock]

Should John Key go to his sons Baseball game in the states or stay home and show that the sacrifice of our two soldiers deserves respect and public acknowledgement from the highest office in the country by attending the funerals?? Well what would you do? Would you listen to a lot of blowarse idiots telling you not to go on your kids' school trip of a lifetime, or would you just tell them to stick their opinions where the sun don't shine and go do the right thing by your kid?

Lets hear it. <_<

[oneofsix]

Well what would you do? Would you listen to a lot of blowarse idiots telling you not to go on your kids' school trip of a lifetime, or would you just tell them to stick their opinions where the sun don't shine and go do the right thing by your kid?

Lets hear it. <_<

False argument. As our dear Prime Minister owns property in the US of A and is reportedly worth over 50 million this will in no way be a trip of a life time for his son, just another trip to the US of A for another baseball game.
John Key chose to be PM and as such he has obligations and he should be teaching his kid about honouring those obligations.

[Jantar]

False argument. ........ John Key chose to be PM and as such he has obligations and he should be teaching his kid about honouring those obligations.
False argument. Just what obligations should JK be honouring? And under what tradition, rule or act do these obligations fall?

If you are meaning that JK is obligated to attend thefunerals of the two fallen soldiers, then that has already been covered, and there is NO obligation of the PM to attend. His obligation there is to honour all of our servicemen killed in action on our national day of rememberence: ANZAC day.

[Oakie]

this will in no way be a trip of a life time for his son, just another trip to the US of A for another baseball game. .

Let's be sure what we're talking about here. It's the under 17 'Senior League World Series' of baseball. It's not 'another game of baseball'. It may well be the pinnacle of Key jnr's sporting life with his team representing the 'Asia-Pacific' region. In regard to the soldiers, JK has visited the families in private which in my view is a bigger thing than attending the public spectacle of a funeral.

[FJRider]

Let's be sure what we're talking about here. It's the under 17 'Senior League World Series' of baseball. It's not 'another game of baseball'. It may well be the pinnacle of Key jnr's sporting life with his team representing the 'Asia-Pacific' region.

AND ... his father was there to see him play.

[Oakie]

AND ... his father was there to see him play.

I'm reminded of a certain young All Black winger who would be very grateful that his father was there to see him play in their Junior World Series final 3 or 4 years back. These opportunities should be taken when presented as you never know what's around the corner.

[ducatilover]

Let's abolish the Army.

[FJRider]

Let's abolish the Army.

They tried that once ... then they got invited to a war.


But the Armed Forces, with their ability to be rapidly deployed ... is the most effective, trained, Civil Defence force we have in this country.

[avgas]

I'm reminded of a certain young All Black winger who would be very grateful that his father was there to see him play in their Junior World Series final 3 or 4 years back. These opportunities should be taken when presented as you never know what's around the corner.
Exactly.
What was the point in our troops fighting overseas anyway if not to defend against moments like this being ruined.

JK should go to the game. Let the minister of defence go to this funeral. As for Maki's example, mate using your maths JK should turn up at the hospital when someone looses a toe. I mean that's 1/100th of a person.

Prime Ministers should not be required to attend dead defense force. Not unless they are getting medals for something at the same time.
Praise the living, morn the dead. Not the other way around.

[ducatilover]

They tried that once ... then they got invited to a war.


But the Armed Forces, with their ability to be rapidly deployed ... is the most effective, trained, Civil Defence force we have in this country.
I still suck at being a troll don't I?

[BoristheBiter]

Any chance we can arrange JK's ticket to be one way. He could stay with his banker mates and his best budd Obama will look after him.

Yep and let him take all of Labour, the greens, and the Maori and Mana party's with him.


He should go to see his son play - and preferably not come back!
The man's a sociopathic aresehole and a complete disgrace as a prime minister!
But....everyone seems to like him.

Tells you a lot about the NZ public........

No says more about you.


I think that the family of the fallen would agree that it is better to spend time with your son at his important life events while he is alive. I'm sure they have been thinking of those times that they placed other obligations ahead of their loved ones. Now those other obligations don't seem quite as important, do they?

Don't make this about John Key or defence policy, or whatever; this is about Rory & Pralli. Two guys who gave everything, doing a job they believed in. The country & the NZDF honours their sacrifice. I have no doubt that there will be plenty of people that they respected far more than the PM who will be present at the funeral.

They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning,
We will remember them.


most likely the best post i have ever read on kiwibiker, just wanted to quote it to see it up here again,

How about a third time.
Lest we forget.

[FJRider]

I still suck at being a troll don't I?

And not even a pretty face .... :shifty: