Temporary road signs turned 90 degrees while not needed, dangerous practice

[jellywrestler]

One of the most dangerous roadworking practices I've come across is roadworkers signs being turned 90 Degrees to normal after hours and between daily works rather than being laid down or removed.
Basically road signs have a decent cross sectional area when they're in situ but turned 90 degrees they are nothing better than a Bacon Slicer and invisible making them a hazard to motorcyclists who can run the risk of hitting them particulalry on corners while leaning over.
If anyone finds any please take photos noting time date and location of them as NZTA is trying to put an end to this practice.
BTW this was a formal approach through out beloved MOTONZ and they've gone to the NZTA and now there's a formal procedure in place to get it stopped.
Post piccies here or PM me

[MSTRS]

Good idea. And while on the subject of road works signs and dangerous practices...
Leaving them on display when there is no reason (ie Men Working - when it is patently obvious that there is no-one there at midnight/whenever). That just leads to an overall contempt for all warning signs and a tendency to ignore them on approach - with the subsequent panic when the sign wasn't lying.

[Road kill]

I don't know about anybody else "yeah OK I do" but anyway,if I'm riding through a road works area it doesn't actually take a road sign to slow me down a little and be that little bit more alert for fuckwit's that would run into road signs,,turned in any direction.
this was just a dumb joke,,,right,,,please ??
OMFG.:brick:

[Akzle]

Jah. Anyone who approaches roadworks at a speed that a blunt edged sign and 1" box steel would "bacon slice" them, probably had it coming. Post pics of THAT.

[jellywrestler]

Jah. Anyone who approaches roadworks at a speed that a blunt edged sign and 1" box steel would "bacon slice" them, probably had it coming. Post pics of THAT.

you sir are a fuckwit.
I'm talking about signs that are there during the day for road works etc but at night instead of removing them they turn them 90 degrees so say on the open road the limit then is 100kmh. The likes that are set up for road marking etc or lineman working where after hours there is absolutely no reason to travel at less than the road speed

[dangerous]

Good idea. And while on the subject of road works signs and dangerous practices...
Leaving them on display when there is no reason (ie Men Working - when it is patently obvious that there is no-one there at midnight/whenever). That just leads to an overall contempt for all warning signs and a tendency to ignore them on approach - with the subsequent panic when the sign wasn't lying.
Ya know if you are a school bus driver and you have ya 'school' sign displayed and the bus is empty... you get ya arse kicked and fined, double standards...

and JW, re above post :killingme

[Akzle]

you sir are a fuckwit...
never seen it. Generally when the road doesnt need to be limited, they move the cones/signage to the shoulder. Most of the roadworks up here is seal repairs.

Still. Getting hit by something in front of you is generally your fault.

[SMOKEU]

Jah. Anyone who approaches roadworks at a speed that a blunt edged sign and 1" box steel would "bacon slice" them, probably had it coming. Post pics of THAT.

I can do you one better and show you a video of the aftermath of exactly that happening. It's good motivation to slow down.

[dangerous]

I can do you one better and show you a video of the aftermath of exactly that happening. It's good motivation to slow down.

... waiting?

[SMOKEU]

... waiting?

I'm not posting it on here as it's extremely disturbing to watch but you can PM me for the link if you really want to see it.

[jellywrestler]

never seen it. Generally when the road doesnt need to be limited, they move the cones/signage to the shoulder. Most of the roadworks up here is seal repairs.

Still. Getting hit by something in front of you is generally your fault. Have you actually ever ridden a motorcycle at night in the rain, certainally the visibility is nowhere what's available in a motorcar, I have, I've been riding for 34 years now, heading out in an hour for a 2.5 hour ride and i'd like every chance of having silly shit like this removed as there's enough shit out there to contend with

I notice you seem to use the word Generally, that to me means less than 100% doesn't it?
If there's a chance to reduce this problem to zilch then why not try and acheive that?

Here's another example you may only see generally.....http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/135550-Lethal-road-marking-practice-be-warned

[MrKiwi]

The practice raised by jellywrestler is no joke, and is a practice the NZTA also takes a very dim view of. It is not widespread, but when it happens it is a material threat because the signs create two potential hazards:
- turned sideways they are invisible but can can create a momentary flash of light from your vehicle lights when driving past. The flash is a hazard and can create a slight loss of vision for 10-20 seconds. Not good at open road speeds.
- whether or not they are invisible, if for some reason you happen to slide off your bike in the vicinity of the sign (yes I know the odds are small but stick with me) then the sign will slice you. If the road hit has not done you in the sign certainly will!

It's a hazard that is totally manageable and should never arise. The NZTA with proof of this happening will address it directly with the road contractor, and it is is repeated the contractor could stand to lose their contract.

[dangerous]

Ya know... thing is I now live in the middle of know were, sure country road SFA traffic but alas no further than just up the road there is just what we talk about, bout a k of turned signs, its got me fucked as to why how and when, no sign of any kind of work but for a k every 50m a speed restricked sign para L with the road (yeah fark ya's I dont know how to spell that 'P' word) curasity has me intreaged but most of all I think like a biker and think WTF, I will head out tomorow just for the hell of it and take photos, unless they have disapaired as quick as they apaired...

anyone remember my thread on the barbed wire attached to the wire barriers north of kaikoura? a couple of posts and a complaint in the right direction had that sorted.

[FJRider]

Good idea. And while on the subject of road works signs and dangerous practices...
Leaving them on display when there is no reason (ie Men Working - when it is patently obvious that there is no-one there at midnight/whenever). That just leads to an overall contempt for all warning signs and a tendency to ignore them on approach - with the subsequent panic when the sign wasn't lying.

Just because there is no staff working on road works sites at the time ... does not mean NO hazard exists in that zone. And as temporary speed signs are often ignored ... at night/after hours/weekends/when nobodys around ... it leaves you open for all sorts of bother.

As does anybody traveling at night on a motorcycle in the rain ... in less than excellent visability ... at 100 km/hr ...

There is more risk of hitting a sheep/cattle beast/teenage punk in a black hoodie ... than hitting a road-works sign. If your lights aren't up to much ... slow down at night.

[Berries]

Saw the OP this morning so had a read of COPTTM when I got to work thinking the practice would be discouraged in there but i couldn't find anything which surprised me. If you do see this then yes you can call MOTONZ if it makes you happy, or you could call your local NZTA office if it is state highway, local council if not, and ask to speak to whoever signs off the Traffic Management Plans. If it is a hazard they should sort it out.

Doesn't help if it is at night and one night only. If you are concerned about whoever might be following you then take the sign down.


Just because there is no staff working on road works sites at the time ... does not mean NO hazard exists in that zone. And as temporary speed signs are often ignored ... at night/after hours/weekends/when nobodys around ... it leaves you open for all sorts of bother.
Most temporary speed limits at road works sites are not set out correctly. Hate to say it but the workers get what they deserve in those cases.

[Akzle]

i bow out. (my last statement stands)

[Gremlin]

I've seen it previously... I'll keep an eye out in my travels :yes:

[FJRider]

Most temporary speed limits at road works sites are not set out correctly. Hate to say it but the workers get what they deserve in those cases.

It is those that ignore the temporary speed signs I refer to ... regardless of how they are set out. Those that DO get what they deserve.

[Berries]

It is those that ignore the temporary speed signs I refer to ... regardless of how they are set out. Those that DO get what they deserve.
It is the fact that so many sites are poorly set out and so many temporary speed limits unnecessary that has led to speed limits getting ignored. If they were there for a valid reason, always, and set out as per the approved plans, always, then I would agree with you. They aren't, so I take them with a pinch of salt.



i blow out.
I have heard that said lately.

[FJRider]

It is the fact that so many sites are poorly set out and so many temporary speed limits unnecessary that has led to speed limits getting ignored. If they were there for a valid reason, always, and set out as per the approved plans, always, then I would agree with you. They aren't, so I take them with a pinch of salt.


Much the same as stock signs .... but guess wrong and ... :doctor:

[dangerous]

It is the fact that so many sites are poorly set out and so many temporary speed limits unnecessary that has led to speed limits getting ignored. If they were there for a valid reason, always, and set out as per the approved plans, always, then I would agree with you. They aren't, so I take them with a pinch of salt.


Agree, however the workers to cover their own arse keep the sinage out just in case, like the fords around me, a teaspoon of water in them and the CLOSED sign is out, shit last weekend I crossed one with the bow wave on the bonnet, however had I fucked up no insurance for me and the council or who ever has no resposability.
So yes like I egnored the "ford closed" sign people egnore road work signs. Do remember tho restriction signs even tho there are no workers about and the roads new, reason is due to speed tearing the road up before its cured.
Guess its back to nobody being allowd to think for them selves these days, rules and regs and the hole dumbing down thing.

[FJRider]

Guess its back to nobody being allowd to think for them selves these days, rules and regs and the hole dumbing down thing.

They may do ... when people stop ignoring road closed signs ... and get themselves (and often their family too) into bother, then need rescueing. If it's only your life at risk ... thats your choice. But if you risk your kid's lives ... and it goes pear-shaped ...

The availability of 4WD's nowdays doesn't help. The "I've got 4WD ... I can get through" attitude is now the norm.

[MrKiwi]

It's not a matter of riders ignoring the signs, it is more a matter of the way in which the signs are placed make it almost impossible to see at night and therefore are a hazard if placed at the edge of the road in that manner (edge facing the direction of the traffic, message facing directly out across the road as opposed to facing the direction of the traffic). The signs being placed that way are not there to be read or to be seen, they are left there in a deliberate state so as not to be read by oncoming traffic, inappropriately, due to road contractor lazyness. It is this practice, not anything else, jellywrestler raised and rightfully so.

We are not talking about signs left at the road side to be seen, riders ignoring those do so at their own risk.

[FJRider]

It's not a matter of riders ignoring the signs, it is more a matter of the way in which the signs are placed make it almost impossible to see at night and therefore are a hazard if placed at the edge of the road in that manner (edge facing the direction of the traffic, message facing directly out across the road as opposed to facing the direction of the traffic). The signs being placed that way are not there to be read or to be seen, they are left there in a deliberate state so as not to be read by oncoming traffic, inappropriately, due to road contractor lazyness. It is this practice, not anything else, jellywrestler raised and rightfully so.

We are not talking about signs left at the road side to be seen, riders ignoring those do so at their own risk.

I was replying to D's post. but unless the signs you speak of are ON the road ... how can you risk hitting them ... ???
The cutting of corners by motorcyclists is also a dangerous and "lazy" practice ... but seems to be condoned ... if it suits at the time.
More motorcyclists die due to excessive speed than hitting signs on the side of the road.

[baffa]

FJ:
Picture the sign on the side of the road, right next to the white line. You are taking a left hand bend, with your wheels hugging the inside of the corner, near the white line, which means the upper half of the bike, and your torso and helmet are over that white line. So you arent breaking any law, but potentially you could go straight into it.

When I dont see any obstacles, I will automatically take a "racing line" hugging the apex to help straighten the corner. Obviously on right hand corners you cant do this as much as your body is leaning into the opposite lane, but I can see how an invisible object on left hand bends could catch people out.

[MSTRS]

More motorcyclists die due to excessive speed than hitting signs on the side of the road.

If I may be flippant - death is usually a result of excessive stopping...

My first post about getting complacent re temporary road signs is valid.
Yes - it is the motorist's problem if they ignore such signs BUT their problem can and does quickly become an innocent party's problem too.
We've no doubt all seen signs out, that for whatever reason were inappropriate just like I said. How many times do you see road cones lined up along the roadside with a 30/50/70/whatever sign out too, and that's it. No men, no machinery, no torn-up road, nothing. Maybe someone is coming tomorrow with a shovel to clear the watertable...?
Like I said - inappropriate signage. See it often enough and where's the incentive to believe it?
Got caught a couple of years back on a single journey of 150k. Repeated sections of road having been resealed. These sections were basically finished, had the painted lines done, just hadn't had the last loose stuff swept off. Signs for Africa - all for 30kph. Maybe 6 or 7 sections like this and then we approached one that said 70kph temp...seal torn up and driving surface now a length of uncompacted basecoarse. That was an 'Oh shit!' moment.
I mean - how can a basically finished road be 30kph and a pile of rocks to drive on be 70kph? Same as expecting an observant motorist on the open road to obey a 30kph limit for a few roadcones...

[jellywrestler]

but unless the signs you speak of are ON the road ... how can you risk hitting them ... ???
fact is i've seen them on the road in this state, on narrow country roads, it's not hard to stop this behaviour by roadworkers, just need a couple to be highlighted with photographic evidence then it should sink in to them

[FJRider]

fact is i've seen them on the road in this state, on narrow country roads, it's not hard to stop this behaviour by roadworkers, just need a couple to be highlighted with photographic evidence then it should sink in to them

Fact is ... narrow country roads at 100 km/hr is dangerous too. (but that is ok ... because it's legal ... right ... ??)

It's been a regular policy of police to take photo's of law-breakers (thats working well ... right ... ???)

There is a big difference between dangerous and illegal. The assumption ANY road is in the same condition ... and with the same numbers of dangers as it was the last time you rode down it ... is not always the correct assumption. It might even be called a dangerous assumption ... and take measures to stop it.

[huff3r]

If I may be flippant - death is usually a result of excessive stopping...

My first post about getting complacent re temporary road signs is valid.
Yes - it is the motorist's problem if they ignore such signs BUT their problem can and does quickly become an innocent party's problem too.
We've no doubt all seen signs out, that for whatever reason were inappropriate just like I said. How many times do you see road cones lined up along the roadside with a 30/50/70/whatever sign out too, and that's it. No men, no machinery, no torn-up road, nothing. Maybe someone is coming tomorrow with a shovel to clear the watertable...?
Like I said - inappropriate signage. See it often enough and where's the incentive to believe it?
Got caught a couple of years back on a single journey of 150k. Repeated sections of road having been resealed. These sections were basically finished, had the painted lines done, just hadn't had the last loose stuff swept off. Signs for Africa - all for 30kph. Maybe 6 or 7 sections like this and then we approached one that said 70kph temp...seal torn up and driving surface now a length of uncompacted basecoarse. That was an 'Oh shit!' moment.
I mean - how can a basically finished road be 30kph and a pile of rocks to drive on be 70kph? Same as expecting an observant motorist on the open road to obey a 30kph limit for a few roadcones...


Easy, the pile of rocks is already fucked so who cares, but say a 40 tonne truck doing 70 on a brand new road that has barely been worn in? That could likely completely ruin the brand spanking new road and destroy weeks or months of effort, as well as waste a fuck-tonne of money.

Speed restrictions for roadworks aren't always there for safety, sometimes they are there to protect the road surface! So people should bloody respect them or expect road user charges to just keep going up and up and up.

[MSTRS]

Hmmm - I can see where you are coming from but, come on, speed limits not being for safety reasons?

[huff3r]

Hmmm - I can see where you are coming from but, come on, speed limits not being for safety reasons?

I know, the public would never believe it! I mean speed kills doesnt it? Even just a little bit!

[FJRider]

I mean - how can a basically finished road be 30kph and a pile of rocks to drive on be 70kph? Same as expecting an observant motorist on the open road to obey a 30kph limit for a few roadcones...

Get pinged in a 30 km/hr temporary speed zone at 100 km/hr by a member of the law enforcers (heading home from a late night call-out) ... and you're walking for 28 days straight off. And thats not even counting the penalty after your court case.

I bet a few wont be expecting that ...

Isn't it funny (actually it's not) how the things you don't expect ... get you the worst. And your reactions to things you didn't expect CAN affect and endanger other innocent/uninvolved other parties.

[huff3r]

Get pinged in a 30 km/hr temporary speed zone at 100 km/hr by a member of the law enforcers (heading home from a late night call-out) ... and you're walking for 28 days straight off. And that not even counting the penalty after your court case.

I bet a few wont be expecting that ...

Isn't it funny (actually it's not) how the things you don't expect ... get you the worst. And your reactions to things you didn't expect CAN affect and endanger other innocent/uninvolved other parties.

So what your saying is.... expect absolutely everything? :(

[MSTRS]

Get pinged in a 30 km/hr temporary speed zone at 100 km/hr by a member of the law enforcers (heading home from a late night call-out) ... and you're walking for 28 days straight off. And that not even counting the penalty after your court case.

I bet a few wont be expecting that ...

Isn't it funny (actually it's not) how the things you don't expect ... get you the worst. And your reactions to things you didn't expect CAN affect and endanger other innocent/uninvolved other parties.

Yeah yeah - we know that. And there have been times when a policeman has erected temporary speed signs for the express purpose of ticketing the unwary.
Which is bullshit. Just like signs turned sideways by lazyarse shirkers (ooops - workers) and speed signs for a reason that doesn't apply.

[FJRider]

FJ:
Picture the sign on the side of the road, right next to the white line. You are taking a left hand bend, with your wheels hugging the inside of the corner, near the white line, which means the upper half of the bike, and your torso and helmet are over that white line. So you arent breaking any law, but potentially you could go straight into it.

When I dont see any obstacles, I will automatically take a "racing line" hugging the apex to help straighten the corner. Obviously on right hand corners you cant do this as much as your body is leaning into the opposite lane, but I can see how an invisible object on left hand bends could catch people out.

I've seen (and done myself) riders leaning into a right hand bend ... with the motorcycle to the left of the centerline. So the motorcycle has not crossed the centerline and is still legal ... right ... ???
Is that a dangerous practice too ... ??? ... and is it any different ... ??? of course ... if you can always see any/all other vehicles coming towards you. Potentially ... you will ... and it will be fine.

[FJRider]

So what your saying is.... expect absolutely everything? :(

Stay safe and stay home. Oh wait ... house's are dangerous places too ...

Not expecting things isn't illegal, but it can kill you. You are aware that those signs could potentially be there ... so expect them to potentially be there ...

As you lean your bike over the left hand side white line ... think about that and expect a sign.
I bet you move a bit over to the right then ... to not do so, is just plain lazy ... and dangerous.

[FJRider]

Yeah yeah - we know that. And there have been times when a policeman has erected temporary speed signs for the express purpose of ticketing the unwary.
Which is bullshit. Just like signs turned sideways by lazyarse shirkers (ooops - workers) and speed signs for a reason that doesn't apply.

Yep ... life is fair ... :blank:

Oh wait ... :doh:

[jasonu]

Have you actually ever ridden a motorcycle at night in the rain, certainally the visibility is nowhere what's available in a motorcar, [/url]

Hey Grand Dad, what is a motorcar???

[MrKiwi]

I was replying to D's post. but unless the signs you speak of are ON the road ... how can you risk hitting them ... ???
The cutting of corners by motorcyclists is also a dangerous and "lazy" practice ... but seems to be condoned ... if it suits at the time.
More motorcyclists die due to excessive speed than hitting signs on the side of the road.

Yes that is true, but again the OP was aimed at having one less hazard which, if it is not necessary, is a good thing, is it not?

[jellywrestler]

Hey Grand Dad, what is a motorcar??? Your mummy and daddy fucked in the back seat of one to bring you in this world, that was even before you could buy RTD's.

[FJRider]

Yes that is true, but again the OP was aimed at having one less hazard which, if it is not necessary, is a good thing, is it not?

One less hazard ... ??? How much of a hazard is it ... ??? How many rider were killed(injured ???) in NZ last year from hitting road signs.
More die from hitting idiotic lazy people ... that dont give way.

The enforcement authoritys attempt to stamp out illegal and dangerous practices on the road with little success. The practice described outlined and being discussed in this thread is not illegal .... it is ... at worst, frowned upon. Thus LTSA can only rely on a safe code of conduct in the respective contracting firms, to prevent it happening. I would like to hear of actual penaltys that can be be given out for those firms that don't adhere to the reccommended practice, of laying the signs flat on the ground.

Perhaps we could set up a facebook page where we can post photo's of dangerous placement of signs we find. It's been done in the attempt to penalize dodgy drivers. That worked well didn't it ... Oh wait ...

[dangerous]

They may do ... when people stop ignoring road closed signs ... and get themselves (and often their family too) into bother, then need rescueing. If it's only your life at risk ... thats your choice. But if you risk your kid's lives ... and it goes pear-shaped ...

The availability of 4WD's nowdays doesn't help. The "I've got 4WD ... I can get through" attitude is now the norm.WTF... 1st egg or chicken?

2nd WTflyingF are you on about??? shit man yeah if you are refering to my ford crossing YES I did it with my family, shits sake man driving through town has more danger as does going to sleep at night... not that I need to justafie my shit cos well you know me anyways... I am an experanced 4x4er (not a fendolton tractor type) I have and I will continue to take my family in by far more risky situations off road why? cos its still a fuk load safer than driving through town... also in this case I know the road hell I live on it hence I know the ground is well packed benieth the 600ml of water... like I said its only closed so as no one can be held resposable due to the fact we are breed thick as shit these days...

[FJRider]

2nd WTflyingF are you on about??? shit man yeah if you are refering to my ford crossing YES I did it with my family, shits sake man driving through town has more danger as does going to sleep at night... not that I need to justafie my shit cos well you know me anyways... I am an experanced 4x4er (not a fendolton tractor type) I have and I will continue to take my family in by far more risky situations off road why? cos its still a fuk load safer than driving through town... also in this case I know the road hell I live on it hence I know the ground is well packed benieth the 600ml of water... like I said its only closed so as no one can be held resposable due to the fact we are breed thick as shit these days...

Actually I didn't intend it to be a dig at you. BUT ... I have seen a landrover go into a similar ford (concrete underneath too) and mid-way through the front upstream wheel, got hit by a log brought down by the current. It steered him off the ford and into the hole chewed out by the flood water, just below the ford. He couldn't get out of his door ... but managed to get out the back. (soft top Landrover) He hit dry land over a kilometer downstream. He was the only person in the landy ... (apart from his black lab pup) which he hasn't seen since.

This was in the days before cell phones. It took a while to find him. Only because we saw him go in ... we knew anybody was missing .... at the time we weren't sure how many people were in the vehicle.

[MrKiwi]

One less hazard ... ??? How much of a hazard is it ... ??? How many rider were killed(injured ???) in NZ last year from hitting road signs.
More die from hitting idiotic lazy people ... that dont give way.

The enforcement authoritys attempt to stamp out illegal and dangerous practices on the road with little success. The practice described outlined and being discussed in this thread is not illegal .... it is ... at worst, frowned upon. Thus LTSA can only rely on a safe code of conduct in the respective contracting firms, to prevent it happening. I would like to hear of actual penaltys that can be be given out for those firms that don't adhere to the reccommended practice, of laying the signs flat on the ground.

Perhaps we could set up a facebook page where we can post photo's of dangerous placement of signs we find. It's been done in the attempt to penalize dodgy drivers. That worked well didn't it ... Oh wait ...

You really seriously miss the point don't you - do you practice being this obtuse! It was a small but good bit of news, and all you can do is piss on it because god knows why. Grow up man and get over yourself.

[FJRider]

You really seriously miss the point don't you - do you practice being this obtuse! It was a small but good bit of news, and all you can do is piss on it because god knows why.

I must have missed the "small but good bit of news" ... what was it again ... ???

[MSTRS]

Any reduction in the risks that riders face must be commended.
But really - a sign turned in line with the road is less of a problem than signs that warn of nothing.

[MrKiwi]

Any reduction in the risks that riders face must be commended.
But really - a sign turned in line with the road is less of a problem than signs that warn of nothing.

I do not disagree with you, there are lots of dangers. This is one of many we can do something about.

[FJRider]

This is a link explaining what is involved in a Traffic Management Plan, in particular the temporary speed limits implimented in roadworks areas.
There are processes in place now if you believe there is any danger to the public in those areas. Basically ... the Road controlling Authority for that road (I assume they mean Transit,or the local Council) must have approved the Traffic Management Plan, have a copy of the plan and conditions it was approved. Plus allowance for complaints or problems with any dangerous procedures used by a contractor.

So if such dangers are found by any of you ... contact the Authority controlling that piece of road and complain. The (any) resulting action, may be quicker that any attempt to change legislation.

And KEEP A COPY/RECORD of it.

I doubt if any Mayor wants any deaths on their roads ... especially after a complaint is (has been) made .... in writing.

http://www.trainz.co.nz/Resources/copttm%20appendices.doc

[Ocean1]

That could likely completely ruin the brand spanking new road and destroy weeks or months of effort, as well as waste a fuck-tonne of money.

Yeah maybe. But what the fuck's the story with leaving M4 all over the road for the public to roll in nicely eh? As far as I'm concerned you get the big fuckoff roller on the job and then you sweep up as part of the contract. Sick of getting stone chips all over my very expensive paint and having to scrape rocks off the Buell's arse and then cleaning the fucking tar off.


Any reduction in the risks that riders face must be commended.
But really - a sign turned in line with the road is less of a problem than signs that warn of nothing.

We've all got our pet hates. Mine's those signposts around theoutside of corners, the ones with the chevrons that I presume are suppoesd to indicate "Hey fuckwit, there's a corner here, turn that way". Someone needs to explain to LTNZ that space is where most vehicles end up after losing control and the last thing you want there is a forrest of fucking 4"x4" posts.


Oh, and while I'm here: thanks for the effort JW, good man.

[MrKiwi]

This is a link explaining what is involved in a Traffic Management Plan, in particular the temporary speed limits implimented in roadworks areas.
There are processes in place now if you believe there is any danger to the public in those areas. Basically ... the Road controlling Authority for that road (I assume they mean Transit,or the local Council) must have approved the Traffic Management Plan, have a copy of the plan and conditions it was approved. Plus allowance for complaints or problems with any dangerous procedures used by a contractor.

So if such dangers are found by any of you ... contact the Authority controlling that piece of road and complain. The (any) resulting action, may be quicker that any attempt to change legislation.

And KEEP A COPY/RECORD of it.

I doubt if any Mayor wants any deaths on their roads ... especially after a complaint is (has been) made .... in writing.

http://www.trainz.co.nz/Resources/copttm appendices.doc

Who's talking about changing the legislation? No one is. The original advice right up front in the first post was to take a photo, date and time and send to the NZTA. You can also send it to the local road controlling authority.

[Berries]

This is a link explaining what is involved in a Traffic Management Plan, in particular the temporary speed limits implimented in roadworks areas.
There are processes in place now if you believe there is any danger to the public in those areas. Basically ... the Road controlling Authority for that road (I assume they mean Transit,or the local Council) must have approved the Traffic Management Plan, have a copy of the plan and conditions it was approved. Plus allowance for complaints or problems with any dangerous procedures used by a contractor.

So if such dangers are found by any of you ... contact the Authority controlling that piece of road and complain. The (any) resulting action, may be quicker that any attempt to change legislation.
That is what I said earlier but I think you are missing the point. Imagine riding down the road and seeing a roadworks sign, placed in the carriageway on the white edge line. Ignore everything that has been said about speed limits, it is just a road works sign, perhaps warning of work on the side road ahead. Nice new sign (Tui), just sitting there and obvious to all approaching traffic. The guys finish up for the night but are coming back the next day so decide they aren't going to take all the signs with them, just lay them down or turn them so people can't see the message. Bang. You are not always going to see a sign that is turned at 90 degrees to your approach. If it is off the road then no problem, the OP is about signs in the road where they can be hit.

It is easy to get a TMP approved. Whether that approved TMP has any relationship with what is on site is another thing. As for unattended sites, well, the less said the better. No legislation needs changing though. It just needs an amendment to the code of practice and a note to all people registered as an STMS. Then it is fixed.

[tnarg]

I was on the home from work the other month and some traffic management company decided to put there signs away for the day. The lay them down flat on a cycle lane next to the live road. A kid heading home after school comes down the hill on his bike doesn't see the signs and end up face planting the road. He needed a trip in an ambulance.

I'am stms qualified and work for the council so took photos and rang Auckland Transport and got there auditor on to them. I know Auckland Transport do take this stuff seriously, so it's worth ringing/emailing what ever RCA when you think there is a potential hazard.

[Jantar]

...The practice described outlined and being discussed in this thread is not illegal .... it is ... at worst, frowned upon. ... ...
Actually, it IS illegal. Temporary speed signs may only be placed as stated in an approved Traffic Management Plan. If that TMP states that the temporary speed signs are to be removed when no work is being carried out, then simply turning them sideways is non compliant and illegal.

It is also a defence if you get pinged for speeding in a temporary speed zone to show that the speed signs do not conform with the approved TMP and therefore are illegal. You cannot use this defence at the time of getting a ticket as there is no way the cop can know whether they are valid or not. You can only use it as a defence in court, so if you are doing 71 in a temporary 30 zone, even if the temporary signs are not there legally, you will be walking for 30 days.

[Berries]

The issue of temporary speed limits at road works needs a whole thread of its own.

[FJRider]

Actually, it IS illegal. Temporary speed signs may only be placed as stated in an approved Traffic Management Plan. If that TMP states that the temporary speed signs are to be removed when no work is being carried out, then simply turning them sideways is non compliant and illegal.

Illegal ... (As stated in legislation of the Transport act) ... ??? or against the conditions/rules of their approved Traffic management plan (is it the same thing ... ??? Who issues/approves them ???), if indeed it was stated in the plan they must be removed. Often it states temporary speed limit/road works signs must not be shown out of working hours. And if road works is still in progress ... the road works sign remains and the speed limit sign is to not be shown. Depending on the work being carried out.
If work is being done on the shoulder of the road ... the temporary speed limit must remain in place. Even if the seal on the roadway is intact.

With the strict rules now in place that govern the placement of road works signage, and the course needed to be attended/passed ... and have permits issued to specific people to allow them to place signs.
Deviation from those rules will result in removal of that permit of the person that placed the signs incorrectly. (Not a court issue) This is often more of a punishment for that person ... and his/her employer. than any court action.
The rules for placement of signs can be complex ... and what may be seen as unnecessary/incorrect signage (or just dam silly) ... is infact ... required under the conditions of the Traffic management Plan ... issued/approved by the Roading engineer of the body that issued the contract. Often the local Council.

Such is the rules.

[jasonu]

Your mummy and daddy fucked in the back seat of one to bring you in this world, that was even before you could buy RTD's.

Thanks for clearing that one up for me mate.

[skinman]

I f...n hate 30km signs with no evidence of work being done, bloody stupid, & if they made the roads properly instead of doing a halfassed job we wouldnt have to go slow over them to avoid damaging the seal.
oh and dont use the traffic to bed in the stone chip thats just being lazy c...ts, use a rollar & clean up the remaining shit so us on less than 4 wheels dont have to slither & slide over it
bunch of cost cutting lazy pricks with no idea of what is safe or god forbid just comman sense
& cheese cutters, yep, tax dollars hard at work there

anyone been down the waikato expressway lately, quality piece of road that, what a f..n mess, how old is it & its f..ked already

[Akzle]

is it the same thing ... ??? Who issues/approves them ???),
google it.

...if they made the roads properly instead of doing a halfassed job we wouldnt have to go slow over them to avoid damaging the seal.
oh and dont use the traffic to bed in the stone chip thats just being lazy c...ts, use a rollar & clean up the remaining shit so us on less than 4 wheels dont have to slither & slide over it
bunch of cost cutting lazy pricks with no idea of what is safe or god forbid just comman sense
& cheese cutters, yep, tax dollars hard at work there

anyone been down the waikato expressway lately, quality piece of road that, what a f..n mess, how old is it & its f..ked already

maaaaaaaate. have you seen the highbrook development in auckland? nice expensive bit of roading, that.
i went over it when it was first "done" and thought "they're going to rip this up within the year"
guess fucken what? within a year they had to rip it up because they didn't compact it properly in the first fucking place. and it's an industrial estate and has trucks on it 24/7.
same as the roads up home. they resealed the portland turnoff last year - it's fucked again! (same thing - trucks 24/7) and they left a f*ing hoey cut in it, so cars/tucks coming off the old chip seal smashed the edge of the new seal. (hows the taupo bypass holding up?)

do the whole road properly? SHIT NO, 10m of hotmix here, 20m with some bitu-mix over there, fill this pothole with the roadie's ciggy butts/ roaches and paint the top black. scoured gravel? gap 50 base? shit, two passes on the grader at 20mm will get that ehh?

FUCK ROADIES.
/rant

[baffa]

google it.


maaaaaaaate. have you seen the highbrook development in auckland? nice expensive bit of roading, that.
i went over it when it was first "done" and thought "they're going to rip this up within the year"
guess fucken what? within a year they had to rip it up because they didn't compact it properly in the first fucking place. and it's an industrial estate and has trucks on it 24/7.
same as the roads up home. they resealed the portland turnoff last year - it's fucked again! (same thing - trucks 24/7) and they left a f*ing hoey cut in it, so cars/tucks coming off the old chip seal smashed the edge of the new seal. (hows the taupo bypass holding up?)

do the whole road properly? SHIT NO, 10m of hotmix here, 20m with some bitu-mix over there, fill this pothole with the roadie's ciggy butts/ roaches and paint the top black. scoured gravel? gap 50 base? shit, two passes on the grader at 20mm will get that ehh?

FUCK ROADIES.
/rant


Why would you worry about the poor state of our roads? You said yourself you arent a part of this society.