*sigh* ok, here goes...

[anebv8]

I swapped a car for a Honda VTZ250 knowing that the bike didn't go <----2nd mistake the first was Honda for a Honda :facepalm: :laugh:


getting it home I tried firing it up,got a couple of little pops out the pipe. Knowing about cars,I checked the plugs, gettin good spark off the rear one,nothing off the front.

I was now getting excited , it started to rain so I heaved the beast on to the veranda,now I'm not getting any spark on either leads.

Can someone explain to my dumb ass how the electrical system works I.E..power goes battery..little thing by battery that goes click when pushing the starter lol and then to?? I'm guessing coils as they look like the ones on EA Falcon

cheers Noobie Kezza

[Drew]

This is gonna be a fun thread.

The clicky thing is called a solonoid. It powers the starter motor.

It's a Honda, so there is a very good chance that the kill switch is off. That's by the throttle.

[bogan]

Good spark on the rear, nothing on the front, I'd start by checking the front coil resistances against those for the rear. I had an VT250F2, and have worked on FGs also, not sure if they changed the engine by much between those models and the VTZ

I have a feeling they use separate pickups to trigger the spark to each cylinder, so that could also be a problem; as well as general wiring issues.

The 'clicker' thing (solenoid) will be near the coils, and will generally have the main fuse on it which passes power to the coils, but as drew says, it turns the starter motor on.

[FJRider]

For the clicking to start ... I'm guessing the battery is either flat or buggered, either jump start with good leads (not the $5 warehouse variety) or get the battery charged up.

And try again.

[ducatilover]

This is gonna be a fun thread.

The clicky thing is called a solonoid. It powers the starter motor.

It's a Honda, so there is a very good chance that the kill switch is off. That's by the throttle.

Agreed.


Check the connections between battery and earth
Check the connections on the solenoid
Check the kill switch works
Check lead and coil resistance
If you're getting spark, the engine's obviously turning over and it's not the rotor/pick up on the crank.
A VTZ is rather old now, so I'd swap the coils around and see if you get spark on the front. I wouldn't be surprised it it has munted coils.

Check the wiring to the CDI/Igniter unit is all secure and that the unit itself looks intact (cracks, squahed or bulging)

[anebv8]

This is gonna be a fun thread.

The clicky thing is called a solonoid. It powers the starter motor.

It's a Honda, so there is a very good chance that the kill switch is off. That's by the throttle.


oh dear...how did I miss that :facepalm: :Oops::whistle:

Thanks Drew


Got spark to both plugs now,but still wont start...oh well,tomorrow is another day

[anebv8]

For the clicking to start ... I'm guessing the battery is either flat or buggered, either jump start with good leads (not the $5 warehouse variety) or get the battery charged up.

And try again.


it's just a quick click when first pushing the start button

[anebv8]

Agreed.


Check the connections between battery and earth
Check the connections on the solenoid
Check the kill switch works
Check lead and coil resistance
If you're getting spark, the engine's obviously turning over and it's not the rotor/pick up on the crank.
A VTZ is rather old now, so I'd swap the coils around and see if you get spark on the front. I wouldn't be surprised it it has munted coils.

Check the wiring to the CDI/Igniter unit is all secure and that the unit itself looks intact (cracks, squahed or bulging)

I swapped the leads around,got spark at both plugs now but the front seems to have less spark,is this the norm or be best to get a new lead?

[awayatc]

spark + fuel = combustion

Start ya bastard (ether) may help.....?

[ducatilover]

I swapped the leads around,got spark at both plugs now but the front seems to have less spark,is this the norm or be best to get a new lead?

If it's getting spark at both ends, turn the fuel tap on and see if it's flowing well (you may need to suck on the small diameter vacuum line to get it to flow)
Also make sure that vacuum line is hooked up to one of the intake rubbers, usually on the front cylinder

I'd replace the leads and plugs anyway

[FJRider]

it's just a quick click when first pushing the start button

Battery is dead (or dead flat) or solinoid switch is buggered (not entirely unknown). Charge/test it and try again.
It being an older bike ... down a bit in compression, it probably needs to be turned over pretty quickly to start.
It may be able to be push started (Or ... hill start) easily as the plugs are taking all the available power on starting. (No drain in power from the starter motor) Find a fit mate to help push (or a big hill)

And ... try only one fix at a time. You then have a better idea if the fix is working ... or not.

If the bike has been sitting and not going for a while ... it could be the petrol thats FLAT ... Give it fresh stuff if you haven't already.

[anebv8]

If it's getting spark at both ends, turn the fuel tap on and see if it's flowing well (you may need to suck on the small diameter vacuum line to get it to flow)
Also make sure that vacuum line is hooked up to one of the intake rubbers, usually on the front cylinder

I'd replace the leads and plugs anyway


strong sell of petrol so I think I just flooded it lol would be good to see the flames come out the pipe

[anebv8]

If it's getting spark at both ends, turn the fuel tap on and see if it's flowing well (you may need to suck on the small diameter vacuum line to get it to flow)
Also make sure that vacuum line is hooked up to one of the intake rubbers, usually on the front cylinder

I'd replace the leads and plugs anyway


I did see a small line hanging around by the front lead..mmmm...DAMN YOU DARKNESS ...poor torch wont take much more lol

[anebv8]

Battery is dead (or dead flat) or solinoid switch is buggered (not entirely unknown). Charge/test it and try again.
It being an older bike ... down a bit in compression, it probably needs to be turned over pretty quickly to start.
It may be able to be push started (Or ... hill start) easily as the plugs are taking all the available power on starting. (No drain in power from the starter motor) Find a fit mate to help push (or a big hill)

And ... try only one fix at a time. You then have a better idea if the fix is working ... or not.

If the bike has been sitting and not going for a while ... it could be the petrol thats FLAT ... Give it fresh stuff if you haven't already.


it has been sitting around 2 months...first thing I done was put fresh gold,I mean petrol into it :yes:

[bogan]

strong sell of petrol so I think I just flooded it lol would be good to see the flames come out the pipe

Be wary of flooding it for too long, the petrol will break down the oil barrier on the rings, and you'll wear them a lot quicker.

[Ender EnZed]

I can't see anywhere in this thread that you've mentioned charging the battery. Regardless of anything else that might be wrong with it you're going to want to start with some fresh electricity if it's been sitting for two months.

[anebv8]

I can't see anywhere in this thread that you've mentioned charging the battery. Regardless of anything else that might be wrong with it you're going to want to start with some fresh electricity if it's been sitting for two months.


battery is all good,plenty of oomph when cranking over,was disconnected when parked up, but may buy a new one one,not sure how old it is

[Drew]

I did see a small line hanging around by the front lead..mmmm...DAMN YOU DARKNESS ...poor torch wont take much more lol


it has been sitting around 2 months...first thing I done was put fresh gold,I mean petrol into it :yes:

Two months is not so long that things will be bung.

On the fuel tap there is a little hose and a big hose on the VT's I think. The small hose is a vacuum line so that when teh motor is turning the suction from teh inlet opens the petrol tap proper. Make sure that small hose is connected between the head and the carb somewhere on teh black inlet rubber.

How are you checking for spark? I imagine you're not getting asa good an earth on the front compared to the rear. Seems consistant with how there was no sparkand now there is some.

[sinfull]

Don't go throwin money away on a new batt if it's cranking ok,

chuck a new set of plugs at it and a can of start ya bastard to spray in the air box (after taking air filter off)

if it won't start on ether, with new plugs, you start looking at coils (testing them) and leads (testing them) if they turn out to be ok, then someones probably fucked with timing and a manual would come in handy !

If it starts and runs on ether (start ya bastard) then it's the fuel line or tank or carbs perhaps

[HenryDorsetCase]

If it's getting spark at both ends, turn the fuel tap on and see if it's flowing well (you may need to suck on the small diameter vacuum line to get it to flow)
Also make sure that vacuum line is hooked up to one of the intake rubbers, usually on the front cylinder

I'd replace the leads and plugs anyway

the trap for young players there is that the vac line can LOOK fine but even a tiny hole or split or weep where you cannot see it is enough to make the fucker not work. DAMHIK

You can do the HRC mod to them by disassembling the fuel tap, and making it so it doesnt work on vacuum. Hint: dont forget to block the spigot where the old vacuum line went.

[Drew]

I think this is being over compacted for the chap.

If it's getting gas, (he can smell fuel so I guess it is), and it has spark I'm picking it'll fire up. This afternoon when you turn it over, begin without the choke. Then move it to half way if it won't start still, then to full.

[Phantom Limb]

My old VT had a weak spark.
It ended up being the silicone boot on the spark plug end of the HT leads. Small cracks in the silicone were allowing the lead to short out onto the head, so wrap the plug end of the leads with electrical tape before your next attempt.

[neels]

I swapped the leads around,got spark at both plugs now but the front seems to have less spark,is this the norm or be best to get a new lead?
Just one question on this, did you swap the coils and/or leads competely, or just swap the leads around?

You need to have the front coil connected to the front cylinder, and back coil to the back cylinder, or it's never going to fire up.

[Crasherfromwayback]

spark + fuel = combustion



You're missing the all important third ingredient.

Compression.

[ducatilover]

the trap for young players there is that the vac line can LOOK fine but even a tiny hole or split or weep where you cannot see it is enough to make the fucker not work. DAMHIK

You can do the HRC mod to them by disassembling the fuel tap, and making it so it doesnt work on vacuum. Hint: dont forget to block the spigot where the old vacuum line went.
I did this, just google VFR400 fuel tap mod (same fuel tap)

They can split the diaphragm in the tap and piss fuel in to the front cylinder (DAMHIK)


My old VT had a weak spark.
It ended up being the silicone boot on the spark plug end of the HT leads. Small cracks in the silicone were allowing the lead to short out onto the head, so wrap the plug end of the leads with electrical tape before your next attempt.
Good idea

[anebv8]

Just one question on this, did you swap the coils and/or leads competely, or just swap the leads around?

You need to have the front coil connected to the front cylinder, and back coil to the back cylinder, or it's never going to fire up.

started off using the rear spark plug..taking it off of course..then when I found no spark to the front lead,I swapped the leads around,after doing that I got spark to the front plug,swapped the leads back again, front plug goes to coil 2..that's the way it was when I took them off

[anebv8]

ok,found this interesting..I done a google search for other poor saps with my predicament and they were saying about the kick stand? apparently the vtr won't start unless the kick stands are up?? Really?

[FJRider]

apparently the vtr won't start unless the kick stands are up?? Really?

really ........ :yes:

[anebv8]

really ........ :yes:


I'm learning so much, what is left of my brain is starting to hurt....might try that tomorrow :niceone:

[FJRider]

I'm learning so much, what is left of my brain is starting to hurt....might try that tomorrow :niceone:

Most modern bikes wont run (in gear) with the side-stand down. Even with the clutch in.

[anebv8]

uummm...silly question...how does this work....is it like the kill switch by the throttle,because I'm getting spark with the stand's down?

[FJRider]

uummm...silly question...how does this work....is it like the kill switch by the throttle,because I'm getting spark with the stand's down?

As per my last post. Most will run with the stand down in neutral. But in gear (even with clutch in) wont run.

It is a cut-out switch on the side stand. As with most things electrical ... does cause problems on the odd occasion. (Is worth checking there are no loose/shorting wires there too.)

[anebv8]

As per my last post. Most will run with the stand down in neutral. But in gear (even with clutch in) wont run.

It is a cut-out switch on the side stand. As with most things electrical ... does cause problems on the odd occasion. (Is worth checking there are no loose/shorting wires there too.)


Thanks bud,re-read it FULLY this time :)

[ducatilover]

ok,found this interesting..I done a google search for other poor saps with my predicament and they were saying about the kick stand? apparently the vtr won't start unless the kick stands are up?? Really?

It will not run if:
(This is a list of VTZ/VTR/VT specifics here to clear it up)
Side stand down AND not in neutral
It WILL if:
Side stand down, not in neutral and the clutch is in

There's a clutch switch and side stand switch
If, either is fucked, it won't spark, end of story.

Hope that helps :yes:
So, you have coils/ leads hooked up correctly?


Find the black pipes that go to the carb bowls, blow in them and, this will force petrol up the emulsion tubes and in to the intake
Than crank it with no choke and no throttle.
If it farts, then do it again and open the choke.

If it's still no go, we haz problemo

[anebv8]

ladies and gentleman,boys n girls,people of all ages

it is alive

[neels]

So what was wrong?

[anebv8]

So what was wrong?

spark plugs, just not quiet enough spark to fire it

[sinfull]

Don't go throwin money away on a new batt if it's cranking ok,

chuck a new set of plugs at it and a can of start ya bastard to spray in the air box (after taking air filter off)

if it won't start on ether, with new plugs, you start looking at coils (testing them) and leads (testing them) if they turn out to be ok, then someones probably fucked with timing and a manual would come in handy !

If it starts and runs on ether (start ya bastard) then it's the fuel line or tank or carbs perhaps

Puffs his chest out !

[anebv8]

Puffs his chest out !


on the money sinfull lol

not the kind of thing I want to replace every week, pricey lil buggers

[The Lone Rider]

I swapped a car for a Honda VTZ250 knowing that the bike didn't go <----2nd mistake the first was Honda for a Honda :facepalm: :laugh:


getting it home I tried firing it up,got a couple of little pops out the pipe. Knowing about cars,I checked the plugs, gettin good spark off the rear one,nothing off the front.

I was now getting excited , it started to rain so I heaved the beast on to the veranda,now I'm not getting any spark on either leads.

Can someone explain to my dumb ass how the electrical system works I.E..power goes battery..little thing by battery that goes click when pushing the starter lol and then to?? I'm guessing coils as they look like the ones on EA Falcon

cheers Noobie Kezza

I could come have a look, or you can trailer it to my workshop in town and go to town on it.

Cost $120 for plugs for one of my bikes...

[onearmedbandit]

the trap for young players there is that the vac line can LOOK fine but even a tiny hole or split or weep where you cannot see it is enough to make the fucker not work. DAMHIK

You can do the HRC mod to them by disassembling the fuel tap, and making it so it doesnt work on vacuum. Hint: dont forget to block the spigot where the old vacuum line went.


I did this, just google VFR400 fuel tap mod (same fuel tap)

They can split the diaphragm in the tap and piss fuel in to the front cylinder (DAMHIK)


Good idea

Not acceptable sorry. I want to know how you know.

[ducatilover]

Puffs his chest out ! Keep it simple, well done sir, Ebeer for you


Not acceptable sorry. I want to know how you know.
Because racecar, obviously.

[anebv8]

I could come have a look, or you can trailer it to my workshop in town and go to town on it.

Cost $120 for plugs for one of my bikes...



thanks mate..got it going :yes: awesome feeling to be back out on a bike after a few's years off, am guessing yours is a 4 cylinder?

[Drew]

I think of the $3000 1500k interval head rebuilds on my old superbike, more than you would care to think of was for replacement unobtainium sparkplugs.

You'd have to ask Mr Clee what the break down was, I got it nice and fresh, and sold it at the end of service life.

[Fast Eddie]

spark + fuel = combustion

haha, does it?

might need compression and air as well.. and timing

[ducatilover]

I think of the $3000 1500k interval head rebuilds on my old superbike, more than you would care to think of was for replacement unobtainium sparkplugs.

You'd have to ask Mr Clee what the break down was, I got it nice and fresh, and sold it at the end of service life.

Makes my bikes look cheap in comparison

[Drew]

Makes my bikes look cheap in comparison And mine!

Reported cost for Haldane to build the bike is literally unbelievable, so it pays to not repeat it. Suffice it to say, liveable Featherston/Graytown/Carterton realestate is a very similar sorta budget.

[ducatilover]

And mine!

Reported cost for Haldane to build the bike is literally unbelievable, so it pays to not repeat it. Suffice it to say, liveable Featherston/Graytown/Carterton realestate is a very similar sorta budget.

It takes a special person to modify a Suzuki :innocent::facepalm:

[FJRider]

It takes a special person to modify a Suzuki :innocent::facepalm:

You need to be special to WANT to modify a suzuki .... at the very least, it proves you have a sense of humor ...

[Drew]

It takes a special person to modify a Suzuki :innocent::facepalm:


You need to be special to WANT to modify a suzuki .... at the very least, it proves you have a sense of humor ...

I'll tell Stroudy/Bugden/Shirriffs you guys think so.

[ducatilover]

I'll tell Stroudy/Bugden/Shirriffs you guys think so.

Go right ahead :yes:

[actungbaby]

Go right ahead :yes:

Yes they get paid to trash there bikes lucky bastards

[Drew]

Yes they get paid to trash there bikes lucky bastardsNot really, been a while since anyne got a cheque and a bike I think.