AHO - automatic headlamp on?

[SuperMac]

Hi,

My first post, and I'd like to ask for help and information.

I'm a researcher in the UK, working in road safety, at TRL, the Transport Research Laboratory.

I understand that NZ has recently had a daytime headlamps law introduced. However, were many of the main manufacturers already selling bikes without an 'on/off' switch for the headlamp ie 'AHO', automatic headlamp on?

If so, do you know when that process was introduced.

Here in the UK we don't have a law - it's just that you can't buy a bike from one of the major manufacturers with a switch!

ALso, are many of the new cars on sale in NZ supplied with daytime running lights (DRL)?


Now, fair exchange is no robbery, so since I've asked for information, here's a 'swap':

Motorcycle training project:
http://www.trl.co.uk/online_store/reports_publications/trl_reports/cat_road_user_safety/report_development_of_a_video_measure_of_hazard_pe rception_skill_and_a_group_discussion_based_hazard _perception_training_package_for_motorcyclists.htm
There are loads more free reports available from TRL's web site, although you may need to register.

Conspicuity (of road workers) project:
http://www.highways.gov.uk/knowledge_compendium/assets/documents/Portfolio/Combined_Conspicuity_Final_Report_Complete.pdf

From my own blog and rider training experience:
http://the-ride-info.blogspot.co.uk/p/cornering.html
http://the-ride-info.blogspot.co.uk/p/diy-advanced-rider-training.html
http://the-ride-info.blogspot.co.uk/p/motorcycle-security.html
http://the-ride-info.blogspot.co.uk/p/someone-elses-crash.html


Thanks,

malc

[Madness]

What are your thoughts on compulsory hi-viz clothing for motorcyclists? This is quite a contentious topic here currently (I haven't looked at your links as I'm multi-tasking).

Welcome to KB by the way.

[tigertim20]

Hi,

My first post, and I'd like to ask for help and information.

I'm a researcher in the UK, working in road safety, at TRL, the Transport Research Laboratory.

I understand that NZ has recently had a daytime headlamps law introduced. However, were many of the main manufacturers already selling bikes without an 'on/off' switch for the headlamp ie 'AHO', automatic headlamp on?

If so, do you know when that process was introduced.

Here in the UK we don't have a law - it's just that you can't buy a bike from one of the major manufacturers with a switch!

ALso, are many of the new cars on sale in NZ supplied with daytime running lights (DRL)?


Now, fair exchange is no robbery, so since I've asked for information, here's a 'swap':

Motorcycle training project:
http://www.trl.co.uk/online_store/reports_publications/trl_reports/cat_road_user_safety/report_development_of_a_video_measure_of_hazard_pe rception_skill_and_a_group_discussion_based_hazard _perception_training_package_for_motorcyclists.htm
There are loads more free reports available from TRL's web site, although you may need to register.

Conspicuity (of road workers) project:
http://www.highways.gov.uk/knowledge_compendium/assets/documents/Portfolio/Combined_Conspicuity_Final_Report_Complete.pdf

From my own blog and rider training experience:
http://the-ride-info.blogspot.co.uk/p/cornering.html
http://the-ride-info.blogspot.co.uk/p/diy-advanced-rider-training.html
http://the-ride-info.blogspot.co.uk/p/motorcycle-security.html
http://the-ride-info.blogspot.co.uk/p/someone-elses-crash.html


Thanks,

malc
I have two bikes, a 2001 R1, and a K4 GSX-R 1000, I can not turn the neadlights off on either of them, if thats what you were asking?

[SuperMac]

I have two bikes, a 2001 R1, and a K4 GSX-R 1000, I can not turn the neadlights off on either of them, if thats what you were asking?

That's the sort of thing :)

I'm trying to get an idea of whether your new(ish) lighting law will actually make a substantial difference to the numbers of riders using lights.

Anyone else have older bikes (2001 is fairly old, no offence intended, tigertimw :facepalm: ) which don't have a switch?

[tigertim20]

That's the sort of thing :)

I'm trying to get an idea of whether your new(ish) lighting law will actually make a substantial difference to the numbers of riders using lights.

Anyone else have older bikes (2001 is fairly old, no offence intended, tigertimw :facepalm: ) which don't have a switch?

no offence taken, shes getting on, but I will never sell her!

what sort of differences are you looking for? Im a regular rider, commute, shopping, weekend rides, long tours, you name it, I do it regularly on my bikes. If you are curious about the safety aspect, frankly I have seen absolutely no benefit whatsoever as a rider, I find that the occurrence of not being seen until the last moment, or not at all, is as high as it ever was before the new law, and back when i had bikes that werent auto-on headlights.

From the discussions I have had with riding friends of mine, none of them feel it has made them feel any safer on the road, nor have they noticed any improvement in being seen.

[Rhys]

My first road bike had no on off switch for the lights and that was made in 1991

[Riderskills]

Hi Malc

Philip McDaid here - Chief Instructor at riderskills motorcycle training (www.riderskills.co.nz) and ex-member of TVAM (your local IAM group). I head up the IAM motorcycle division here in New Zealand.

Hope you are having better weather in crowthorne than we are having here. I had the pleasure of doing some training at TRL a few years ago.

So to help with your question - NZ still imports bikes with fully functioning headlight switches (eg Suzuki GN125), though most modern bikes have them hard wired in. The process for informing existing riders of law changes could do with a little more robustness here so it would be no suprise to find that some riders are not aware that the change came into effect in November 2009.

From the amendment rule:

'This subclause applies to the driver of a moped or motorcycle
manufactured on or after 1 January 1980. The driver other than
during the hours of darkness must use the moped’s or motorcycle’s
headlamps or, if fitted, the moped’s or motorcycle’s
daytime running lamps.'

My experience is that not many cars have headlights permanently on - though you might be interested to find that the waikato district have a road safety campaign actively encouraging ALL drivers to keep their headlights on. From memory you might want to contact Megan Jolly for more info.

Hope this helps.

If you need any more information contact me on info@riderskills.co.nz

Best regards,

Philip

[Ender EnZed]

There are plenty of older bikes still on the road here with headlight switches.

[SuperMac]

From the discussions I have had with riding friends of mine, none of them feel it has made them feel any safer on the road, nor have they noticed any improvement in being seen.

I've had a couple of riders say to me "Hey Malc, your headlamp's not on!" So how did you see me . . . ? :blink:


what sort of differences are you looking for?

Just interested to know when the 'big four' etc. started selling bikes in NZ without switches. IIRC it was 2003 over here.


My first road bike had no on off switch for the lights and that was made in 1991

Blimey! What is it?

[Cochise4]

I have a 2003 Suzuki GSX250 and can turn the headlights off if I want to.

[SuperMac]

Hi All,

Great info - really appreciate it!

Are there any links to on-line versions of that 'car' lights campaign?

My own views (not TRL's) on hi-viz clothing? Well, I wear black and grey 'Phantom' suit, black golc=ves and boots, but a white lid. My bike is white, and I don't have my headlamp on unless it's dark, dim or raining etc.



Philip McDaid here - Chief Instructor at riderskills motorcycle training (www.riderskills.co.nz) and ex-member of TVAM (your local IAM group). I head up the IAM motorcycle division here in New Zealand.

Hope you are having better weather in crowthorne than we are having here. I had the pleasure of doing some training at TRL a few years ago.

Weather? hah! Typical UK summer :eek5: However, as you may have seen from Olympic TV coverahe, the last two weeks have mainly be good. I'm off to Cornwall for a week soon, so it had better improve :)

TVAM, eh? We may well have crossed paths! I was TVAM's link to the MSF which resulted in TVAM starting Look Lean Roll when the USAF largely pulled out of the UK and access to the MSF course was no longer available. I think I was TVAM member 35 . . .

[neels]

My 1998 ducati and 2000 drz both have lights permanently on.

To answer your later question, pretty much the only cars here with day running lights are saabs and volvos, it's unusual enough that people will flash you to let you know your lights are on.

[gammaguy]

all my bikes are old(98,87 and 88)

Two are NZ new

One is an import from Japan

All of them have headlight switches

I dont ride with my headlight in bright sunlight thru choice i use the Position Light on two of them and the one that does not have it,I have made a LED day running light.

If it is anything like dark I put my headlights on.

I am totally unconvinced that headlights on during the day helps dickhead blind distracted stupid homicidal drivers see me better.

I prefer to assume I have not been looked at,noticed or in fact seen.

So far this attitude has served me well.

Laws are of course made for the lowest common denominator,we all know that

in ten years time there will be so few bikes with headlight switches,and cars too,that the law wont matter anyway

[SuperMac]

My 1998 ducati and 2000 drz both have lights permanently on.

To answer your later question, pretty much the only cars here with day running lights are saabs and volvos, it's unusual enough that people will flash you to let you know your lights are on.

Ah, OK.

Over here, all new cars now have to have DRLs - some are bright enough (IMHO) to cause enough glare to be uncomfortable in daytime (so why the Hell they have them on at night . . . ?).

[yachtie10]

cant turn off headlight on my 2009 bike

FYi in case your interested there are countries where having you motorcycle headlight on during the day is illegal and they do ticket for it (usually to get Tea money (Bribes)) example Cambodia

[Jantar]

I was one of the people who encouraged motorcyclists to ride with their headlights on back in the mid 1970s. I raised the issue through 3 different motorcycle clubs, but I pushed it as being a matter of encouragement and education rather than compulsion. Back then if your saw headlight/s approaching then they really stood out and you could imediately identify a motorcycle. Having your headlights on during daylight made a point of difference and hence helped you to be seen.

Now that many cars are driving with their headlights on, that point of difference has gone and any gain in safety for the motorcyclist has gone with it. Instead we have a law which forces us to have headlights on and that makes us just blend in with the cars that are doing the same.

[davereid]

Back then if your saw headlight/s approaching then they really stood out and you could imediately identify a motorcycle. Having your headlights on during daylight made a point of difference and hence helped you to be seen.


I completely agree. You are certainly MORE VISIBLE if you have your headlight on, especially if you are the only vehicle on the road. When mixed in with a number of other vehicles all with their light on, I think that advantage is lost.

I would also make the point that being visible does not mean you are safer.

In WW1 ships were often painted a variety of bright colours and geometric shapes, and lit with single white lights. The idea of the shapes and single light was to confuse gunners about target range, so they would be unable to correctly assess a ships distance and speed of travel.

I think a single headlight on a motorcycle does the same thing, it removes the ability of the human brain to use binocular vision to correctly estimate distance to the vehicle, and the vehicles speed.

Id also bet that motorcyclists suffer more rear-end collisions now.

We don't normally have high-stop brake lights.

With headlights off, a brake light went from OFF to BRIGHT. Now a brake light goes from BRIGHT to BRIGHTER, and it will take most observers a moment or more longer to react to this.

I have modified my Harley to try and address these issues. I have a very bright brake lamp, and have dimmed my park lamp to attempt to gain a decent stop light effect. And to help get binocular vision back my indicators are always on, blinking when they are used.

Once again the law makers are trying to help, but its not been properly researched or thought through.

I used to ride headlights OFF, then if I saw a car at a corner, what ever, use the headlamp flash to give them a burst. IMHO I was saferr and more observable with that technique than I am now.

[SuperMac]

Good point about the brake lights - I'd never thought of that!

[NordieBoy]

1997 DR650 with no light switch.
Means the '96 was the same.

[neels]

I am totally unconvinced that headlights on during the day helps dickhead blind distracted stupid homicidal drivers see me better
It would seem the aussies agree with you....http://www.mccofnsw.org.au/a/136.html

I'm not too bothered either way regarding lights on/off during the day, the only time it annoys me is when the battery on the bike is a little bit sad and the headlight eats what's left before it gets a chance to start.

[Paul in NZ]

All of my ancient bikes have light switches. The wee suzuki AC50 has such a pathetic 6v system its hardly worth describing it as a light but really its only for high days and holidays...

Both the triumph (1970) and the Moto Guzzi (1980) run modified electrical systems that allow for modern lighting and daytime running of said lighting. Originally both came with a 40W (or so) incandescent globe which produced a very poor yellow puddle of colour just in front of the wheel.. Real candle in a beer bottle stuff. Now they have H4's and a decent white light. The difference in drivers reactions to the bikes was startling. You get noticed (talking open road stuff here) a lot earlier and more consistently...

[Road kill]

I knew guys in the late 80's that had bike with headlights hard wired on.
I think most were Suzuki,was considered quite a novelty at the time.
My own bike 66 Triumph Saint still has the original type wiring and although it's never let me down,I still don't trust it,,had too many mid 70's Yamahas an still have the ghost looking over my shoulder.
Because I don't trust it I do at times ride with the light off,and don't have any more cars pulling out on me,,,not that I ever had anyway.
Hi vis and lights mean nothing to a driver that simply ain't looking to begin with,or to bikers that usually travel at a higher average speed than the surrounding traffic.
Put the two togeather an you have a bent biker and a car driver making excuses.

[FJRider]

That's the sort of thing :)

I'm trying to get an idea of whether your new(ish) lighting law will actually make a substantial difference to the numbers of riders using lights.

Anyone else have older bikes (2001 is fairly old, no offence intended, tigertimw :facepalm: ) which don't have a switch?

A friend of mine had a 1991 Honda ST1100 that had hardwired headlights as standard new.

[Matt_TG]

My 1991 Yamaha FJ1200's lights are always on when the ignition's on. No headlight on/off switch. The indicator lights also stay on as running lights.

[Tricia1000]

Hi Malc,
Tricia O'Connor here from Roadcraft School of Motorcycling Ltd., in Auckland. I have a 2005 Yamaha FZ1000S which does not have a headlight switch. Although the same 1000 cc bike I had in Ireland before heading back to NZ, DID have a switch. 4 smaller Suzukis all do have a headlight switch. And my 600 has a switch. A few cars here Do have DRL's especially Volvo's. Volvo's can't switch them off.

For cars though, I don't really agree with DRL's, (during weather with good visibility) as the bikes then tend to blend in to a sea of lights. At least if just the bikes have lights on then there is more chance that a biker can be seen further away. Quite a lot of car drivers here drive during the day and night with fog lights on, and parking lights!!!!. Although this is illegal, (fog lights) it is not policed here. Some drivers (I am also a car driving instructor) have no idea how to turn them OFF!!

In order to get a m/c licence in NZ at the moment, there is a short skills test, off road, and then you do your theory test, and you are free to ride on the road from that moment on.
More often than not, without any training!!

[[[As one of the two instructors, currently changing the motorcycle riding tests, and our Basic Handling Skills test (similar to CBT but not on road ) to improve riders skills, it is probably quite important to point out that 75% of cars in NZ are automatics. Therefore drivers aren't as engaged in the process of driving as they would be when driving a manual. Also, until last year, you could start driving at 15! Both of these factors mean that if you ride a motorcycle here, you can't expect to find the orderly driving that most drivers in GB are used to. Drivers here tend to be lazy, with poor observation. So basically, the more the motorcyclist here, can do, to avoid collisions with the cars, the longer their life might be.
Yes, motorcyclists have just as much right on the road as the cars, and we pay more than twice the price each year to keep our bikes on the road, we still need to protect ourselves.]]]

If you need any further information please contact me on rcsom@xtra.co.nz
Regards,
Tricia

Hi,

My first post, and I'd like to ask for help and information.

I'm a researcher in the UK, working in road safety, at TRL, the Transport Research Laboratory.

I understand that NZ has recently had a daytime headlamps law introduced. However, were many of the main manufacturers already selling bikes without an 'on/off' switch for the headlamp ie 'AHO', automatic headlamp on?

If so, do you know when that process was introduced.

Here in the UK we don't have a law - it's just that you can't buy a bike from one of the major manufacturers with a switch!

ALso, are many of the new cars on sale in NZ supplied with daytime running lights (DRL)?


Now, fair exchange is no robbery, so since I've asked for information, here's a 'swap':

Motorcycle training project:
http://www.trl.co.uk/online_store/reports_publications/trl_reports/cat_road_user_safety/report_development_of_a_video_measure_of_hazard_pe rception_skill_and_a_group_discussion_based_hazard _perception_training_package_for_motorcyclists.htm
There are loads more free reports available from TRL's web site, although you may need to register.

Conspicuity (of road workers) project:
http://www.highways.gov.uk/knowledge_compendium/assets/documents/Portfolio/Combined_Conspicuity_Final_Report_Complete.pdf

From my own blog and rider training experience:
http://the-ride-info.blogspot.co.uk/p/cornering.html
http://the-ride-info.blogspot.co.uk/p/diy-advanced-rider-training.html
http://the-ride-info.blogspot.co.uk/p/motorcycle-security.html
http://the-ride-info.blogspot.co.uk/p/someone-elses-crash.html


Thanks,

malc

[FJRider]

My 1991 Yamaha FJ1200's lights are always on when the ignition's on. No headlight on/off switch. The indicator lights also stay on as running lights.

My 1993 FJ1200 does have a headlight switch. But it was imported (ex Japan) but not by me.

This may indicate that the intended market of the vehicle, rather than the particular model of vehicle ... that dictates the switch variation.

Volvo seem to have no switch variation in their vehicles during assembly. ALL have "Lights ON" ...

[actungbaby]

[QUOTE=SuperMac;1130378517]Hi,

My first post, and I'd like to ask for help and information.

(I'm a researcher in the UK, working in road safety, at TRL, the Transport Research Laboratory.)


I always rode with my bikes headlight on for many years , well way i see it cant do any harm so why not.

my 1992 vfr 750 Usa imported model has no on of switch i belive been the law over there for some time .

Though i dont think should be the law that you get fine if you dont think thats bit daft.

[caspernz]

It would seem the aussies agree with you....http://www.mccofnsw.org.au/a/136.html

I'm not too bothered either way regarding lights on/off during the day, the only time it annoys me is when the battery on the bike is a little bit sad and the headlight eats what's left before it gets a chance to start.

Yep, my solution is to push the start button (as this turns off the headlight) before I turn the key, then the clutch lever being pulled in will make the bike crank. Mainly do this to stop the HID double firing, but also saves the battery...but hey it's a Shorai...so plenty of juice in there :lol:

[FJRider]

Though i dont think should be the law that you get fine if you dont think thats bit daft.

I'm waiting for the english translation ...

But ... New Zealanders have the choice of ignoring laws they don't like ... or think are a bit daft.

Some ... even believe the laws ... don't even apply to them.



Although they may find those choices and beliefs, are not grounds for their defence in court.

[caspernz]

I'm waiting for the english translation ...

But ... New Zealanders have the choice of ignoring laws they don't like ... or think are a bit daft.

Some ... even believe the laws ... don't even apply to them.



Although they may find those choices and beliefs, are not grounds for their defence in court.

Kiwi logic is quite simple - anything is legal until you get caught...:killingme

[FJRider]

Kiwi logic is quite simple - anything is legal until you get caught...:killingme

Of course ... they tell you it's a crime when you get caught.

[caspernz]

Of course ... they tell you it's a crime when you get caught.

Oh not at all, the guilty party knows they're in the wrong...so they choose to blame the Police for "picking on them" when they should be out chasing real criminals...

[SMOKEU]

I'm going to put a switch in so I can turn the headlights off on my bike. Whoever invented the idea of headlights hard wired on should be shot. The headlights take valuable current away from the battery when I'm trying to start the bike.

[gammaguy]

I'm going to put a switch in so I can turn the headlights off on my bike. Whoever invented the idea of headlights hard wired on should be shot. The headlights take valuable current away from the battery when I'm trying to start the bike.

most modern machines have a cut out that switches off the headlights when the starter button is pressed

anyway,real bikes have kickstarters<_<

[scumdog]

I'm going to put a switch in so I can turn the headlights off on my bike. Whoever invented the idea of headlights hard wired on should be shot. The headlights take valuable current away from the battery when I'm trying to start the bike.


That will learn you for dealing with old clunkers...and see the last post.

[GrayWolf]

That will learn you for dealing with old clunkers...and see the last post.

and what is wrong with us 'OLD CLUNKERS'? ya cheeky git!! ;)

[chasio]

Yep, my solution is to push the start button (as this turns off the headlight) before I turn the key, then the clutch lever being pulled in will make the bike crank. Mainly do this to stop the HID double firing, but also saves the battery...but hey it's a Shorai...so plenty of juice in there :lol:

Good tip, that. My 2001 Freewind (NZ new but with a French language sticker on the tank..?) has a 3 position headlight switch, but if I use that technique instead I won't forget to turn them back on and risk the fine.

And I couldn't say if the law has helped at all as I always ran with lights on anyway.

[Brayden]

All of my bikes have had switches, they are great for running away from the police

[scumdog]

All of my bikes have had switches, they are great for running away from the police

Wire it so the headlight stays on - that way you can see where you're going.

And the police will find it easier to find you crashed bike.

[Bonez]

There's been lights on only bikes bought in as left overs from other markets since the early 80s. For example I've got switch gear off a Canadian '81 CB750/900 without light on/off switch. It's not a new concept by any stretch.
Most of riders I've ridden with ride with lights on most of the time way before the current law makers got in on the act. This dispite the fact some can ride quite legally without them on(my '78 cx and '76 cb for example). Personally I prefer a light on/off switch. Very handy when mucking around with the ignition on in a workshop enviroment. Beats pulling fuses/breakers/connectors etc.

[scumdog]

Personally I prefer a light on/off switch. Very handy when mucking around with the ignition on in a workshop enviroment. Beats pulling fuses/breakers/connectors etc.

On the other hand the fact the headlight is on is a good reminder you've left the ignition on...also very handy at times.

[Bonez]

True. But there's also the idiot lights on the dash or key/fob(with tassels attached obviously) in the ignition.

[scumdog]

True. But there's also the idiot lights on the dash or key/fob(with tassels attached obviously) in the ignition.

On one of my bikes the key is about a mile from the idiot light - which is not always in view.

But yeah, mostly you're right.

Especially about the tassles!

[Bonez]

A mile ah? Must have bloody long wheel base. :innocent:

[NordieBoy]

True. But there's also the idiot lights on the dash or key/fob(with tassels attached obviously) in the ignition.
Idiot lights? Dash?

Damn. Knew something was missing...

[BMWST?]

i prolly showing my age,but i have had 12 bikes 7 of em brand new new my 1989 current bike is the newest i have owned,yet oldest i have owned.(Get it?)NONE have has auto on headlights

[Hinny]

I was one of the people who encouraged motorcyclists to ride with their headlights on back in the mid 1970s. I raised the issue through 3 different motorcycle clubs, but I pushed it as being a matter of encouragement and education rather than compulsion. Back then if your saw headlight/s approaching then they really stood out and you could imediately identify a motorcycle. Having your headlights on during daylight made a point of difference and hence helped you to be seen.

Now that many cars are driving with their headlights on, that point of difference has gone and any gain in safety for the motorcyclist has gone with it. Instead we have a law which forces us to have headlights on and that makes us just blend in with the cars that are doing the same.

The point advocates of headlights on at all times for cars either miss or ignore.
It used to be that headlights on in a car during daylight was for emergencies and other vehicles would give you way; ie pull over and let you pass or other considerations. This gets lost if H/lights on becomes a norm.

The problem for bikes as has been noted is the tail light being on takes away the effectiveness of the stop light.
My solution on my bike is to have high viz LED running lights on and headlight off. Get a bit of binoccular effect to help with distance estimation and stands out from crowd. Are very bright and only draw 4 watts. Highly recommended mod for old bikes and design recommendation for new ones. Strip LEDs like on Volvos and BMWs look cool and are winners from many angles.

[joan of arc]

Having seen a few old school bikes coming from the other direction without lights on, I reckon that they are hard to see until they are almost next to me especially if dark bike and rider in black. Yep, is the possibility of my failing eye sight but I am a baby boomer so there is plenty of us on the road.
Reckon I see a head light way before I can make out the bike.

Try it for yourself and see what you think. Ride towards a mate with light covered and uncovered. In a car park with dark asphalt which blends with rider and bike, not a pale concrete driveway.

Maybe the whole light on thing isn't going to make 10% difference in being noticed by cagers, but if it saves one life, especially if it is yours, then it is worth it!

[scumdog]

In reality the claim by various people that they don't want to be made to ride with their lights on "because it's unsafe" or "nobody will see me anyway" or "it will flatten my battery" is spurious, the REAL reason is because they are being told they HAVE to ride with their lights on. True.

[Bonez]

I'm a bit out of touch. Are there any bikes with beepers the beep when you get off your saddle as a warning that you've left your lights on or and left the keys in the ignition yet?

Scummy around town some bikes just don't the charging rate of more modern stuff. It's the reason bikes prior to a certain date are deemed exempt. Even the gummerment figured that one out. Of course generally sensible folk may fit better charging systems or the likes of LEDs.

What's the official line for the popo do when they pull over a rider who is legally riding in such a manner -pass them a pamphet?

[Ocean1]

the REAL reason is because they are being told they HAVE to ride with their lights on. True.

Yup.

That, and the small matter that the reasoning behind the law is totally unsound.

[scumdog]

Yup.

That, and the small matter that the reasoning behind the law is totally unsound.

Oh, tell me more - does it actually make motorbikes HARDER to see???

[Ocean1]

Oh, tell me more - does it actually make motorbikes HARDER to see???

Going by the differences in typical accident stat's before and after it make no difference at all here, same as every other state that's made the change.

[scumdog]

Going by the differences in typical accident stat's before and after it make no difference at all here, same as every other state that's made the change.

Each to their own but I have had lights-on since way back - however I qualify that by saying since abot '96 I have two mini spot lights on my bike, each side of the headlight.

I only use them during daylight as they would be extremely dazzling to oncoming motorists at night.

I have had quite few people say they noticed those lights before they saw the bike, on that basis a headlight on must give SOME increase in visibility, especially as a motorbike headlight headinging towards you seems to 'jiggle' a lot thereby drawing attention to it.
In a very busy built up area there may be a different story but I'm speaking from my experience down here.

At the end of the day I trust no one to notice those lights, if they do it's a plus, I don't rely on them to make me seen.

[Ocean1]

Each to their own but I have had lights-on since way back - however I qualify that by saying since abot '96 I have two mini spot lights on my bike, each side of the headlight.

I only use them during daylight as they would be extremely dazzling to oncoming motorists at night.

I have had quite few people say they noticed those lights before they saw the bike, on that basis a headlight on must give SOME increase in visibility, especially as a motorbike headlight headinging towards you seems to 'jiggle' a lot thereby drawing attention to it.
In a very busy built up area there may be a different story but I'm speaking from my experience down here.

At the end of the day I trust no one to notice those lights, if they do it's a plus, I don't rely on them to make me seen.

What you've got there has some basis in credible science. So it shouldn’t come as any surprise that it's probably not actually legal.

Single fwd facing lights don't give an onlooker any idea how fast you’re approaching, as a “conspicuity” device they simply don’t work. What makes people looking in your direction look harder is any horizontally features rapidly getting further apart. I’m looking at these: http://www.motozone.co.nz/products/accessories/handguards/acerbis-dual-road-handguards.aspx, with the LED strip, (also probably not strictly legal).

If I can figure out a gadget to make 'em bling from the inside towards the outside it'd have an even better effect.

As for trust? I try not to put myself in a position where anyone can tag me, accidentally or otherwise. But, y'know we all have bad days, so anything that helps us throught them...

[NordieBoy]

Going by the differences in typical accident stat's before and after it make no difference at all here, same as every other state that's made the change.

They are easier to see.

But it doesn't really make a difference.

[scumdog]

They are easier to see.

But it doesn't really make a difference.

What he said, it's just to try and be seen.

Speed is irrelevant.

[Asher]

My 91 Suzuki RGV250 has a headlight switch while my 93 RGV they are wired on.

I feel like having my lights on increases my visibility especially during winter when shadows are longer and sun strike can be quite bad.

[carburator]

my 97 trx850 is AHO so is the 08 R1.

my ute i have AHO LED running lights as im commerical in and out of a lot of places plus having the orange flashers on the roof
for various site's ( fletchers fulton hogan etc )

my haulage truck ( super kenworth ) i have running lights and also a rack of lightforce over the cab that certainly lights
up the road at night.. ( been told its light watching a 747 land )

I have down the side of the low loader trailer led's as ive found most people day and night look at the truck but not what
you are towing ( roundabouts and interchanges are classic ) even if you have a 50 tonne digger and chase car's people still
seem to run up the ass of the lowboy or hit it in the side...

[Hinny]

... i have running lights and also a rack of lightforce over the cab that certainly lights
up the road at night..

..... even if you have a 50 tonne digger and chase car's people still
seem to run up the ass of the lowboy or hit it in the side...

Those Lightforce lamps are fantastic.

OMG. I guess it's because people look for shapes and sizes. The shape and size of a car.
Bikes and large vehicles are outside the size/shape parameters they are looking for and are therefore not 'seen'.
It's like trout fishing. Trout lock on to a particular food and fishing success comes from emulating the size and shape of that food.
Too big or too small and the flies are ignored.

[sootie]

.
It's like trout fishing. Trout lock on to a particular food and fishing success comes from emulating the size and shape of that food.
Too big or too small and the flies are ignored.
Pretty apt really. Around here we have cagers that seem to hunt for motorcycle prey.

[G4L4XY]

I have a friend on a late model ninja, during the day he rides around with his full beam on, just because it's more noticable and during the day the main beam isn't as strong as it seems to be at night.
Any ideas about that?

[Jantar]

Full beam on during the day time has been covered in here a few times already.

It annoys the fuck out of everyone, and makes your indicators hard to see. It obscures your intentions and makes it more difficult for oncoming drivers to estimate your distance.

Overall its a dangerous practice, and probably worse than no lights at all. You become a target rather than something to be avoided.

Sure, oncoming drivers can see you, but not be able to tell har far away you are, how fast you're travelling or if you are intending to turn.

[sootie]

I have a friend on a late model ninja, during the day he rides around with his full beam on, just because it's more noticable and during the day the main beam isn't as strong as it seems to be at night.
Any ideas about that?
I was not happy with how noticeable the dipped headlight was on my ZZR1100. Am also not keen on using full beam by day although it is more noticeable.
I now have a little electronics box which illuminates both of the forward indicator lamps when no turn signal is present. When I follow other riders, they sometimes comment about how easy to spot the light splatter is from these turning lights. I would recommend this idea.