Employment issues question.

[tigertim20]

Hey all, have a question which will no doubt turn into a shitfight, but here goes.

Lets say that person A has been at their job far ages (a year, ten years, doesnt matter) they are employed full time. Part of their work uniform is a short sleeved T shirt which they are required to wear at all times.

Person A has developed a taste for tattoos, and decides to get a sleevve. (for the uninitiated, a 'sleeve' is a tattoo that goes from the shoulder, and extends down the arm) It is their intention to have the sleeve go down to just below the elbow, NOT to the wrist, bit just past the elbow, by say and inch or so.
The tattoo they want, for arguments sake, is of a floral design, colorful flowers, we arent talking human skulls, swastikas and death shit, just a nice array of flowers and maybe the odd bird hiding here and there etc.


Lets say person A goes ahead with their tattoo, and heads into work the next day. what issues, if any, would you expect to encounter?
for the sake of argument, there is nothing whatsoever in person A's contract that says anything about tattoos, the only snippets of any relevance state that the person must be in clean uniform, and we cleanly and tidily presented at all times.

No, this has not happened yet, but a person I know may well be about to go ahead with exactly this scenario.
thoughts, opinions, whatever?

[mashman]

Does the odd bird hiding in the flowers have her tits out?

[Indiana_Jones]

A longer sleeved shirt?

-Indy

[Hopeful Bastard]

Maori boy at my work has a full arm sleeve (tribal) and has to wear a cover thing over it. However, If it is just below the Tshirt he would have to get it done and then ask. Chances are he will have to cover it up if it is viewable.

[FJRider]

No, this has not happened yet, but a person I know may well be about to go ahead with exactly this scenario.
thoughts, opinions, whatever?

And if the employer decides to "re-structure" the work-force ... giving said employee 3 months notice of termination of employment. Said employee has little they can do.
Or said employer requires all employees to re-apply for their job. And advertises their job as vacant.

Tell that person to discuss the said (possible) scenario with the employer.

[Madness]

http://www.hrdevelopment.co.nz/2011/10/tribunal-dismisses-tattoo-coverup-case/
http://www.stuff.co.nz/oddstuff/4273135/Charges-after-penis-tattooed-on-mans-back

[Daffyd]

"cleanly and tidily presented at all times." A tattoo, no matter how tasteful, might be considered not clean and tidy. A matter of interpretation.

I would check with said employer first. Which is more important to friend, job or tattoo?

[tigertim20]

Maori boy at my work has a full arm sleeve (tribal) and has to wear a cover thing over it. However, If it is just below the Tshirt he would have to get it done and then ask. Chances are he will have to cover it up if it is viewable.
yes, covering it up isnt something the person has an issue with at all, they arent going to walk around flaunting their tats, but I know that the tattoo thing can become an issue for some

"cleanly and tidily presented at all times." A tattoo, no matter how tasteful, might be considered not clean and tidy. A matter of interpretation.

I would check with said employer first. Which is more important to friend, job or tattoo?
given the person, the job, and the significance of the tattoo intended, the job means two fifths of fuckall, but just because the job doesnt really mean shit to this person doesnt mean that they want to go and fuck people off, or cause shit if there is a way around it, jobs seldom last a lifetime, unlike tattoos, so frankly IMO, the tattoo would always come first, as if you want it on your forever, it clearly is important to you - that is just my opinion though.

and yes you are right about the interpretation part - hence why I outlined the type of tattoo intended. My brother has some heinous, arse ugly fucking tattoos he got in jail from a mate that made a tattoo gun out of an electric toothbrush and a ball point pen, they are so fucking shit that I want to take a knife to him to cut them off. If I owned a restuarant or something and he worked there, Id tell him to cover them or fuck off because they look like total fucking shit, the person in question though, I wouldnt have a problem with them being visible at all

http://www.hrdevelopment.co.nz/2011/10/tribunal-dismisses-tattoo-coverup-case/
http://www.stuff.co.nz/oddstuff/4273135/Charges-after-penis-tattooed-on-mans-back

lmao! that fuckin hilarious!

[Ender EnZed]

If they want the tattoo then just get it. Asking their employer first is only giving them a chance to say no.

Depending on what the job is they might get asked to cover it up, but I'd be surprised if the consequences would be any worse than that.

[Berries]

I'd sack them. Sorry. In real life you can't, I know, but that is how I would feel. You wear a short sleeve t-shirt for work, if you served customers I would want you gone. It does not matter how pretty the tattoo is, or how much skill it took the artist to do, tattoos are still and will always be a fuck you to the observer. If a customer orientated job they would be first out of the door when I 'restructured'.


the only snippets of any relevance state that the person must be in clean uniform, and we cleanly and tidily presented at all times.
Clean and tidily presented? I think not.

I have ink by the way. But knowing the prejudice that will always surround them I made bloody sure I didn't get it on my face, neck or below t-shirt level. Or apply for a job at Burger King.

[Oakie]

Depends on the employment agreement first and foremost and how specific it is about appearance.
After that it depends on the job. In a hotel it would be OK for the kitchen hand hidden away from public view but not OK for the receptionist at front-of-house.

The sensible thing to do if your friend doesn't want to risk an employment problem is to talk to the employer first. At least your friend will know the consequence before proceding.

[tigertim20]

I'd sack them. Sorry. In real life you can't, I know, but that is how I would feel. You wear a short sleeve t-shirt for work, if you served customers I would want you gone. It does not matter how pretty the tattoo is, or how much skill it took the artist to do, tattoos are still and will always be a fuck you to the observer. If a customer orientated job they would be first out of the door when I 'restructured'.


Clean and tidily presented? I think not.

I have ink by the way. But knowing the prejudice that will always surround them I made bloody sure I didn't get it on my face, neck or below t-shirt level. Or apply for a job at Burger King.

would want to, and what is legally allowed are two different things.

there are many ways of covering without breaching the uniform. a clean white sleeve thingy,( the same as a compression sock people wear sometimes) worn with the uniform to cover the ink would be unobtrusive enough to never be an issue.

It irks me somewhat that people still have such a lowly opinion of tattoos, I really cant agree with the 'its still a fuck you to the observer' attitude either - if they were swastikas or something sure, but otherwise nah, that seems a little bit of an overexcited response! whats the difference between a tattoo and jewellery? gonna make a married person take their wedding rings off when they are working in case a customer is a serial womaniser and gets offended!?!?!?

[Berries]

It irks me somewhat that people still have such a lowly opinion of tattoos, I really cant agree with the 'its still a fuck you to the observer' attitude either - if they were swastikas or something sure, but otherwise nah, that seems a little bit of an overexcited response! whats the difference between a tattoo and jewellery? gonna make a married person take their wedding rings off when they are working in case a customer is a serial womaniser and gets offended!?!?!?
No, but if they were serving the public I would think twice about employing someone with facial piercings if you want to talk jewellery. Not because it is a problem for me, been there, done that and got the holes to prove it, but because of the impression that some people will get. Wrongly IMO, but that counts for nothing when it is your money walking out the door.

Like I said, I have tattoos. I was just pointing out a not uncommon view, perhaps of my old man's generation, that links big tats to bad people. If I had a job that required me to wear short sleeves then there is no way I would get inked below that point unless I wanted to give the boss a message that I didn't really give a shit about his job.

[Crasherfromwayback]

tattoos are still and will always be a fuck you to the observer. .

Can't agree with that sorry. Maybe 10 years ago. Not now. How many chicks at cafes etc are covered in them?

[Berries]

Just the skanky ones if I am honest.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Just the skanky ones if I am honest.

And yet you have ink yourself. Pretty fucked up view. Old fashioned as fuck too. The simple fact that you don't like it means you can class those that do as skanky. Narrow minded and hypocritical to boot.

[Crasherfromwayback]

My thoughts on it...

268348

[gammaguy]

Can't agree with that sorry. Maybe 10 years ago. Not now. How many chicks at cafes etc are covered in them?

chick at the coffee shop i am known to frequent has nice roses on her lower back,and when she bends over to pick up the spoon i seem to drop often,I can see the pansies.

dont have a problem with that at all:innocent:

[Virago]

chick at the coffee shop i am known to frequent has nice roses on her lower back,and when she bends over to pick up the spoon i seem to drop often,I can see the pansies.

dont have a problem with that at all:innocent:

Any fairies at the bottom of the garden?

[Gremlin]

would want to, and what is legally allowed are two different things.
...
It irks me somewhat that people still have such a lowly opinion of tattoos, I really cant agree with the 'its still a fuck you to the observer' attitude either - if they were swastikas or something sure, but otherwise nah, that seems a little bit of an overexcited response! whats the difference between a tattoo and jewellery?
Come on. As long as the business knows what they are doing, it's very easy to get rid of people. As long as you do it correctly, there is no problem. Botch it (as so many do) and yeah, it's gonna bite you.

It also doesn't really matter what you think re tattoos. The general public perception is still negative (and more importantly, the company's opinion of the general public perception). Yes, it's probably not as negative as a decade ago, but it's still negative.

I'd simply ask the employer first. If they said no, then the person can choose to remain in employment, or value the tattoos above all else. NZ is far too small to make stupid moves...

[Daffyd]

Come on. As long as the business knows what they are doing, it's very easy to get rid of people. As long as you do it correctly, there is no problem. Botch it (as so many do) and yeah, it's gonna bite you.

It also doesn't really matter what you think re tattoos. The general public perception is still negative (and more importantly, the company's opinion of the general public perception). Yes, it's probably not as negative as a decade ago, but it's still negative.

I'd simply ask the employer first. If they said no, then the person can choose to remain in employment, or value the tattoos above all else. NZ is far too small to make stupid moves...

Well said, that man.

[gsxr]

Come on. As long as the business knows what they are doing, it's very easy to get rid of people. As long as you do it correctly, there is no problem. Botch it (as so many do) and yeah, it's gonna bite you.

It also doesn't really matter what you think re tattoos. The general public perception is still negative (and more importantly, the company's opinion of the general public perception). Yes, it's probably not as negative as a decade ago, but it's still negative.

I'd simply ask the employer first. If they said no, then the person can choose to remain in employment, or value the tattoos above all else. NZ is far too small to make stupid moves...

Why ask the KB audience ??? Surely it is a question that person A should ask their employer about and once they have a firm answer from said employer person A can make an informed decision on their own account without the need for the opinions of 20 or 30 other people that have no stake in this matter.Employee and employer are the only 2 persons that will at the end of the day decide whether person A should or not retain their employment .

[Brian d marge]

why am i , even reading this ,,,a caunt to type and not worrth th paper to print it , it on

stepheb
the pissssedd

[caspernz]

Come on. As long as the business knows what they are doing, it's very easy to get rid of people. As long as you do it correctly, there is no problem. Botch it (as so many do) and yeah, it's gonna bite you.

It also doesn't really matter what you think re tattoos. The general public perception is still negative (and more importantly, the company's opinion of the general public perception). Yes, it's probably not as negative as a decade ago, but it's still negative.

I'd simply ask the employer first. If they said no, then the person can choose to remain in employment, or value the tattoos above all else. NZ is far too small to make stupid moves...

Nicely put, albeit in a somewhat PC manner. In some industries tattoos are common place, but I think you've got the public perception bit right here.

Bit like the old joke about women with tattoos being easy to hit on...they're wearing the evidence on their skin that they're capable of making a mistake :shit::confused:

In the end, if the tattoo is that important then go ahead and get it done, cover it up at work and don't ask the boss.

[gsxr]

why am i , even reading this ,,,a caunt to type and not worrth th paper to print it , it on

stepheb
the pissssedd

You need a new keyboard. Your one makes less and less sense every day.

[Berries]

And yet you have ink yourself. Pretty fucked up view. Old fashioned as fuck too. The simple fact that you don't like it means you can class those that do as skanky. Narrow minded and hypocritical to boot.
Hey, I married one. It's a compliment down this way.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Hey, I married one. It's a compliment down this way.

lol. Nice work!

[Edbear]

Why ask the KB audience ??? .

Easy, it's fun to watch! :yes:

[Akzle]

depends what the employer considers "presentable", whether there is an "unsaid rule" of no tats. - a bitch to argue in employment court either way.

basically, not a lot to be done about it.

[Geeen]

My thoughts on it...


Awesome Pic Crasher,

TT, I have a 3/4 sleeve on one arm and another tattoo on the back of the other forearm. I also wear a polo type shirt for work. Not one customer has had an iusse with any of my ink and I'm dealing with mega rich ($60 million superyachts, $100,000+ stereos) middle aged type people. I have found that as long as you present yourself as a decent friendly person tattoos dont really register as a blip on the radar.
Some of the views expressed so far are surprising considering 1 in 3 adults in NZ has ink of some description.

So as long as your friend is open and honest about tattoos I cant see why it would be an issue.

[tigertim20]

My thoughts on it...

[]
seen that before, its a great pic!


Why ask the KB audience ??? Surely it is a question that person A should ask their employer about and once they have a firm answer from said employer person A can make an informed decision on their own account without the need for the opinions of 20 or 30 other people that have no stake in this matter.Employee and employer are the only 2 persons that will at the end of the day decide whether person A should or not retain their employment .

Person A has already made their decision, but it was being discussed among a group of us a wee while back, and I thought it might make for an interesting discussion here. the decision is made, end of story, this wasnt a plea to help decide!

[Geeen]

So was/will there be any fallout at work?

[nodrog]

Tattoos are for criminals and anti social people!

[tigertim20]

So was/will there be any fallout at work?

I dont think there will be any fallout, work hasnt been done yet, they are picky (and fair enough!) and are still nailing down the design

[FJRider]

Person A has already made their decision, but it was being discussed among a group of us a wee while back, and I thought it might make for an interesting discussion here. the decision is made, end of story, this wasnt a plea to help decide!

An interesting story ...

If indeed person A has decided to get the tattoo's ... as per their right under personal choice's. The people that person deals with in their daily life ... also has choices ... and rights. And the choice not to have to see it (daily) if they choose.
Who's rights are of more importantance ... ??? and take priorty ... ???

[MIXONE]

Hey, I married one. It's a compliment down this way.

Marry a fat tatooed chick.You get warmth in winter,shade in summer and moving pictures all year round.:niceone:

[mossy1200]

I dont have any tattoos.
Its not because I dont like them. Its just because they dont interest me enough to bother getting one.

The thing is they dont offend me. Even if they are prison or gang tats. It just spells out more info on the person that has them but that expression may imply not suitable person to employ.

I think failure to except how people express their bodies is a bit out of date now.

[short-circuit]

An interesting story ...

If indeed person A has decided to get the tattoo's ... as per their right under personal choice's. The people that person deals with in their daily life ... also has choices ... and rights. And the choice not to have to see it (daily) if they choose.
Who's rights are of more importantance ... ??? and take priorty ... ???

Ridiculous comment. Taking offense at anything is a choice.

[caspernz]

Ridiculous comment. Taking offense at anything is a choice.

Very true.

The simple problem becomes that when two fellas are in the running for a job, and the employer is a narrow minded git then the fella without the visible tattoos gets the job...nothing else comes into play, unfortunately.

[Katman]

I'm surprised at the number of policemen with tattoos down their arms these days.

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against tattoos (I have a number myself) - just surprised is all.

[tigertim20]

An interesting story ...

If indeed person A has decided to get the tattoo's ... as per their right under personal choice's. The people that person deals with in their daily life ... also has choices ... and rights. And the choice not to have to see it (daily) if they choose.
Who's rights are of more importantance ... ??? and take priorty ... ???
that sounds like a bollocks argument sorry trev. will you argue next that they have a right to not have to see someones birthmarks, or scars, or see that a person is morbidly obese? People do, and always will, only see what they want to see. dont like it, then dont look at them

[SMOKEU]

If the employer kicks up a fuss, then tell them to get fucked.

[Road kill]

Ridiculous comment. Taking offense at anything is a choice.

Taking offence is seldom a choice,it tends to be a subconcious reaction.
It's like fear,,,I have full body Tattooing and I see fear in some people now and then.
Even though they don't know me their still reacting on a subconcious level to inbuilt fears about people that have tattoos.
There's little choice involved until they get the oppertunity to really decide for themselves weather that fear is justified.

Personally I work at not getting in other peoples faces about this for the reason that my tatts were always my thing "not theirs" so my knowingly placing them in a position where they feel uncomfortable is pretty disrespectfull coming from somebody that understands exactly what's going on.

Of course there's other times when they can be a passport to not getting your face punched in on the spot,,which also happens.

People are funny critters.:crazy:

[skippa1]

chick at the coffee shop i am known to frequent has nice roses on her lower back,and when she bends over to pick up the spoon i seem to drop often,I can see the pansies.

dont have a problem with that at all:innocent:

a little bit further you might be able to see if shes been deflowered:lol:

[skippa1]

I have ink by the way.

strange view for someone "with ink". :blink:

[FROSTY]

This exact conversation was had a few months back in a dive forum. In that situation person A was a dive instructor.
Then feedback was that the boss likely wouldn't personally take offence.
Where it gets tricky is that Dive shops are in a highly competative industry.The image of the company is reflected in its staff.
If the impression could be taken by the public that the shop is run by gang types etc with tats it could affect the company financially.
I guess thats how I would feel as the boss of A if they were in a visable public service role.
I would not employ a salesman with visible tattoos. Again not that I have issue with them but because the public might

[short-circuit]

Taking offence is seldom a choice,it tends to be a subconcious reaction.
It's like fear,,,I have full body Tattooing and I see fear in some people now and then.
Even though they don't know me their still reacting on a subconcious level to inbuilt fears about people that have tattoos.
There's little choice involved until they get the oppertunity to really decide for themselves weather that fear is justified.

Personally I work at not getting in other peoples faces about this for the reason that my tatts were always my thing "not theirs" so my knowingly placing them in a position where they feel uncomfortable is pretty disrespectfull coming from somebody that understands exactly what's going on.

Of course there's other times when they can be a passport to not getting your face punched in on the spot,,which also happens.

People are funny critters.:crazy:

Fear is not the same as taking offense. Fear is a primary emotional response, the latter is a choice based on one's attachment to particular values. You don't like tattoos? Look the other way.

[FJRider]

Fear is not the same as taking offense. Fear is a primary emotional response, the latter is a choice based on one's attachment to particular values. You don't like tattoos? Look the other way.

We all have the right to not to put up with things we dont like ... as do employers.

To ignore the values of your employer ... will not always be in your own best interest.

[short-circuit]

We all have the right to not to put up with things we dont like

Not necessarily. There's this concept, its called tolerance. Suck it up.


To ignore the values of your employer ... will not always be in your own best interest.

Rightly or wrongly, can't argue with that

[tigertim20]

Fear is not the same as taking offense. Fear is a primary emotional response, the latter is a choice based on one's attachment to particular values. You don't like tattoos? Look the other way.

how about you fuck off, and send back the real short circuit, we knew you were an imposter the minute you made a post like the above that makes sense.

second thoughts, maybe we can just keep the new SC?:bleh:

[Road kill]

Not necessarily. There's this concept, its called tolerance. Suck it up.



Rightly or wrongly, can't argue with that

So where's your tolerance ?
Or is that just something others have to give you ?

Like I said,,people are funny critters,,,some are even blatant hypocrites like you .

Yeah,,suck it up aye mate.:lol:

[FJRider]

Not necessarily. There's this concept, its called tolerance. Suck it up.

Tolerance is multi-directional ...


Rightly or wrongly, can't argue with that

Many will try ..... Rightly or wrongly.

[Akzle]

Of course there's other times when they can be a passport to not getting your face punched in on the spot,,which also happens.

really. you seem like such a lovely guy :eek:

[Big Dog]

Hey all, have a question which will no doubt turn into a shitfight, but here goes.

Lets say that person A has been at their job far ages (a year, ten years, doesnt matter) they are employed full time. Part of their work uniform is a short sleeved T shirt which they are required to wear at all times.

Person A has developed a taste for tattoos, and decides to get a sleevve. (for the uninitiated, a 'sleeve' is a tattoo that goes from the shoulder, and extends down the arm) It is their intention to have the sleeve go down to just below the elbow, NOT to the wrist, bit just past the elbow, by say and inch or so.
The tattoo they want, for arguments sake, is of a floral design, colorful flowers, we arent talking human skulls, swastikas and death shit, just a nice array of flowers and maybe the odd bird hiding here and there etc.


Lets say person A goes ahead with their tattoo, and heads into work the next day. what issues, if any, would you expect to encounter?
for the sake of argument, there is nothing whatsoever in person A's contract that says anything about tattoos, the only snippets of any relevance state that the person must be in clean uniform, and we cleanly and tidily presented at all times.

No, this has not happened yet, but a person I know may well be about to go ahead with exactly this scenario.
thoughts, opinions, whatever?
I have opinions from both sides of this fence, but they are opinions.
I don't have all the tattoos that I want because you never know what you will want to do for a living next.
I have one tattoo on my back and I know it has stopped me from getting at least one job in the pas because it was semi visible through a plain white business shirt that was part of the uniform.
I want more tattoos but I intend to keep them tattoos that can be covered by a conventional length polo shirt, not because I would be ashamed of my tattoo but because some employers are prejudiced and they will not always be honest.

I know when I was regularly hiring people several times I was encouraged by senior managers to find other reasons not to employ those with lots of visible tattoos.

On a lesser level some people will not even consciously know why but not want to employ the tattooed person over a "clean skin" of otherwise identical qualities.


Part of getting a tattoo or at least the decision to do so is the knowledge that you have to live with the consequences.

[scumdog]

I cannot give you a clear answer Tom - but what I CAN say is that NZ Police which is seen by many to be the epitome of represive staff rules/draconian work related regulations still allows full sleeves - and there's plenty of cops with clearly visible tats.

[Oakie]

a little bit further you might be able to see if shes been deflowered:lol:
Or if she's weed...

[gammaguy]

a little bit further you might be able to see if shes been deflowered:lol:

well she has got roses,so a few pricks are there already:cool:

[short-circuit]

I cannot give you a clear answer Tom - but what I CAN say is that NZ Police which is seen by many to be the epitome of represive staff rules/draconian work related regulations still allows full sleeves - and there's plenty of cops with clearly visible tats.

Of course - the biggest gang in the country. Drones sent to defend the property rights of the haves.

[Murray]

given the person, the job, and the significance of the tattoo intended, the job means two fifths of fuckall

Where do I apply??

[scumdog]

Of course - the biggest gang in the country. Drones sent to defend the property rights of the haves.


And don't you forget it!!!

[FROSTY]

Not necessarily. There's this concept, its called tolerance. Suck it up.
But why? -Serious question.Why should the public have to be tolerant?They are paying person A's wages.
If they don't like it most won't "suck it up" about 5% will complain there and then ,The rest just won't come back. And worse will tell their freinds about this gang type person....

[short-circuit]

But why? -Serious question.Why should the public have to be tolerant?They are paying person A's wages.
If they don't like it most won't "suck it up" about 5% will complain there and then ,The rest just won't come back. And worse will tell their freinds about this gang type person....

And a racist will boycott a business that employs someone ethnically different? And Edbear will forgo air travel to avoid trolly dollies?

"Sorry I can no longer employ you on the basis that 3% of our customer base are naive fogies who might believe you to be a gangster....and may be sufficiently irked by their assumption that they may not come back.....despite the fact that you more than met their expectations in a professional sense"

[FJRider]

And a racist will boycott a business that employs someone ethnically different? And Edbear will forgo air travel to avoid trolly dollies?

That is their right to do so ... if they choose ... and the racist will get away with it ... with no punishment whatsoever if they say nothing about it.
Edbear is also legally allowed to avoid anybody he chooses to avoid ...


"Sorry I can no longer employ you on the basis that 3% of our customer base are naive fogies who might believe you to be a gangster....and may be sufficiently irked by their assumption that they may not come back.....despite the fact that you more than met their expectations in a professional sense"

It ... generally speaking ... hinges on that last sentence ... with a big IF at the start.

But if that 3% customer base provides 15% of their income ... ??? does the employer not have the "right" to decide ... ???

[Usarka]

And a racist will boycott a business that employs someone ethnically different? And Edbear will forgo air travel to avoid trolly dollies?

"Sorry I can no longer employ you on the basis that 3% of our customer base are naive fogies who might believe you to be a gangster....and may be sufficiently irked by their assumption that they may not come back.....despite the fact that you more than met their expectations in a professional sense"

Would you wear a suit to court?

[short-circuit]

That is their right to do so ... if they choose ... and the racist will get away with it ... with no punishment whatsoever if they say nothing about it.
Edbear is also legally allowed to avoid anybody he chooses to avoid ...

No argument. I'm just suggesting that generally if customers get want they want generally they won't give a fuck who the messenger is




But if that 3% customer base provides 15% of their income ... ??? does the employer not have the "right" to decide ... ???

Not in the case of the two examples I provided above. They would likely face an investigation by the human rights commission.

[short-circuit]

Would you wear a suit to court?

What's your point? Having a tattoo in the workplace (which by the way may not involve serving the public) is not necessarily going to hold consequences for anyone.

Those who take offense at tattoos can choose to take offense or they can accept other people's choices and get on with their own business.

If I was that badly affected by the sight of tattoos I would consider going to live in Japan

[FJRider]

Not in the case of the two examples I provided above. They would likely face an investigation by the human rights commission.

If your two "examples" said nothing ... as to why they made their decisions ... it would be difficult to prove ... by reputation alone.

Voting with their feet is always a customers "right". Not just a choice.

[short-circuit]

If your two "examples" said nothing ... as to why they made their decisions ... it would be difficult to prove ... by reputation alone.

Voting with their feet is always a customers "right". Not just a choice.



The two examples I provided pertained to the employer discriminating on the basis of race and sexual orientation


As far as customers (assuming the workplace in question is even a customer focussed one), I think it is highly doubtful that customers in todays world would boycott a business purely because of a tattoo. I would suspect that the number who chose to be sufficiently outraged would be negligible.

Even more so depending on context - small shamrock on an Irish girls wrist vs swastika on the neck










....oh godwins, dead thread

[FJRider]

The two examples I provided pertained to the employer discriminating on the basis of race and sexual orientation


The topic of this thread (getting back on topic) is the one issue of a tattoo and it's employment connotations ... not race or sexual orientation.

And unless you are suggesting tattoo's are included in those connotations ... it is YOU that is disciminating ...


Shame on you ... :bash:

[Usarka]

What's your point?

That you shouldn't be judged by how you look, but reality is that people do judge you by how you look.

And employers know that.

It aint brain science.

[short-circuit]

That you shouldn't be judged by how you look, but reality is that people do judge you by how you look.

And employers know that.

It aint brain science.

Please continue your train of argument and tell me about the consequences of such judgement in relation to courtroom defendent vs. said worker.....

[short-circuit]

That you shouldn't be judged by how you look, but reality is that people do judge you by how you look.

And employers know that.

It aint brain science.

You see my wife was a chef with a full sleeve and is now a teacher with a full sleeve (so far so good)

[FJRider]

You see my wife was a chef with a full sleeve and is now a teacher with a full sleeve (so far so good)

Cooking the books now ... ???

[short-circuit]

Cooking the books now ... ???

Good one. Don't worry, she knows her place in the home :corn:

[FJRider]

Good one. Don't worry, she knows her place in the home :corn:

She would do ... obviously has the brains in the family :lol:

[oldrider]

This topic always shows me up (to myself) because I have so many different reactions to tattoo's! :facepalm:

As silly as it sounds, I can't make up my mind how I really feel but don't have any and don't intend to get any! :mellow:

[awa355]

That you shouldn't be judged by how you look, but reality is that people do judge you by how you look.

And employers know that.

It aint brain science.

I agree, I tend to see facial piercings, and full tattoos in the same light.


People may have the right to look how they want, and express themselves, but, the reality is that if I go into a shop and the idiot behind the counter, looks like a bomb full of spring washers and self tapping screws just went off in their face, Tattoo'd neck and arms etc, I'd be inclined to take my money somewhere else.

Call it prejudice or whatever, it's my money I'm spending, and my choice to be served by a human being and not a Gothic retard.

[short-circuit]

I agree, I tend to see facial piercings, and full tattoos in the same light.


People may have the right to look how they want, and express themselves, but, the reality is that if I go into a shop and the idiot behind the counter, looks like a bomb full of spring washers and self tapping screws just went off in their face, Tattoo'd neck and arms etc, I'd be inclined to take my money somewhere else.

Call it prejudice or whatever, it's my money I'm spending, and my choice to be served by a human being and not a Gothic retard.

What a sensitive soul you are. Me? If they perform as they should, couldn't give a fuck.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Call it prejudice or whatever, it's my money I'm spending, and my choice to be served by a human being and not a Gothic retard.

So what if the 'Gothic Retard' was the best in the business, and the only other cat offering the same thing was a brain dead full of shit retard that just happened to be a 'well presented' specimen?

[Madness]

So what if the 'Gothic Retard' was the best in the business, and the only other cat offering the same thing was a brain dead full of shit retard that just happened to be a 'well presented' specimen?

Kind of like if Robert Taylor had piercings & tattoos & Kerry Dukie was well presented? It takes a lot of imagination, I know.

[FJRider]

So what if the 'Gothic Retard' was the best in the business, and the only other cat offering the same thing was a brain dead full of shit retard that just happened to be a 'well presented' specimen?

Based on my observations and experiences in the past ... that "Other cat" may find an opening in motocycle sales ...

[Crasherfromwayback]

Kind of like if Robert Taylor had piercings .

You mean he doesn't?

[Crasherfromwayback]

Based on my observations and experiences in the past ... that "Other cat" may find an opening in motocycle sales ...

Well if that's a dig at me...go you.

Edit: I meant to add this but forgot. Brain dead you see. In my experience...far better to grow some balls and tell someone what you really think about them than hide behind innuendo so as to appear smarter than you actually are.

[Madness]

You mean he doesn't?

I wouldn't really know to be honest. Kerry is hardly well presented though, that I do know.

[AllanB]

Ask the employer. If they say 'no' the risk is if he continues to get the tattoo the employer has the previoous conversation to fall back on. Mind you good luck with any employer winning in a NZ court!

If it isa problem he has plenty of flesh to get tattooed that can be easily covered.

[Geeen]

Ask the employer. If they say 'no' the risk is if he continues to get the tattoo the employer has the previoous conversation to fall back on. Mind you good luck with any employer winning in a NZ court!

If it isa problem he has plenty of flesh to get tattooed that can be easily covered.

Speaking as one of those tattooed freaks people seem to be upset by, the placement of the tattoo is just as important as the subject. For example the tattoo on my left forearm is there because its about my wife and kids, so I could "wear my heart on my sleeve" so to speak, also the left arm is closer to the heart (which is why wedding rings are worn on that hand) so it wouldn't have had the same meaning on my right buttock. Also, and this may just be me, but I see my tattoos as commissioned artwork just the same as that landscape you bought for the living room wall. Its just a different canvas.

As I said before, no-one I have dealt with professionally has had an issue with my tattoos.

[Berries]

Lets say that person A has been at their job far ages (a year, ten years, doesnt matter) they are employed full time. Part of their work uniform is a short sleeved T shirt which they are required to wear at all times.

Is this him in today's ODT? (http://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/222334/facing-new-life-without-mask)

[tigertim20]

without reading the article, no, it isnt a him!

[tigertim20]

haha! ha! Ha!.
fuckin idiot!