Pro-lite questions

[TygerTung]

I have a GPX250 here which a previous owner had savaged, I think perhaps he was wanting to turn it into a streetfighter or something?

I noticed that he has cut off some of the brackets on the rear subframe, Will this make the bike illegal for this class? Will I have to try and replicate these?

The muffler/footrest mounting hanger has been removed and the brackets have been cut off, would it be legal for me to make a new hanger out of steel, rather than having to try and cast a new aluminium one?

Is it legal to remove the wires from the loom which arn't in use anymore?, IE. the wiring for the lights and gauges etc which are no longer fitted, or do I just have to sort of tape these spare wires, plugs etc to the frame to stop them flapping around. I would prefer to remove them as it would be much tidier.

I don't have the original plastic mounting plates which the ignition unit, fusebox and regulator/rectifier are mounted to, can I just make one out of aluminium?

It didn't come with any fairings, is it legal to run in this class without them? I was just going to run the bike fully naked if aloud.

Can the radiator fan and wiring be removed?

Any help on this would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,

Sam

[Wheeliemonsta]

Gidday Sam,
Its a production based class so the bike has to be as close to the way it left the factory as it possibly can...

Check out http://www.motorcyclingnz.co.nz/download/2012_MoMS_Appendix_I_Prolite.pdf

There will have been literally hundreds of GPX's wrecked by now so bits won't be an issue...

You can run slip on's but the cheaper alternative is to have your stock mufflers re cored with 28mm perf tubing to help them breathe a bit better, have a look here http://www.wix.com/pickleracing/pickle-racing-nz my good mate Blair raced one for a while

Good luck with it...

Cheers

[TygerTung]

Nah the mufflers are fine, I don't have the hangers anymore.

The problem is that while there seems to have been a few wrecked, everyone who has spares for them wants a huge amount of money for any small piece. I don't really have a lot of spare money floating around, having a mortgage to pay and all that, so I don't want to spend any more money than I have to.

[Yow Ling]

Nah the mufflers are fine, I don't have the hangers anymore.

The problem is that while there seems to have been a few wrecked, everyone who has spares for them wants a huge amount of money for any small piece. I don't really have a lot of spare money floating around, having a mortgage to pay and all that, so I don't want to spend any more money than I have to.

just bring it out, easier to ask for forgiveness than permission

can run it at CAMs just how it is

[steveyb]

just bring it out, easier to ask for forgiveness than permission

can run it at CAMs just how it is

Running it at a club meeting in the 'modified' form will probably be fine, within reason, BUT do not turn up at NZSBK meeting with it in that form.
The rules are there so that the playing feild is level, and from all accounts the 'authorities' are going to be a lot stiffer on enforcement this coming season than over the past few.
It would be a very feeling shit to turn up with a bike that is outside the rules and be denied entry, not to mention putting some other poor bugger in the position of having to deny you entry. I reckon, unless that person is a total bastard, that they would feel worse than you.

BUT, the GPX is a great bike to get going in 250 Production with. They really work well. So if you can sort it out, do so and get out there.

[Billy]

Running it at a club meeting in the 'modified' form will probably be fine, within reason, BUT do not turn up at NZSBK meeting with it in that form.
The rules are there so that the playing feild is level, and from all accounts the 'authorities' are going to be a lot stiffer on enforcement this coming season than over the past few.
It would be a very feeling shit to turn up with a bike that is outside the rules and be denied entry, not to mention putting some other poor bugger in the position of having to deny you entry. I reckon, unless that person is a total bastard, that they would feel worse than you.

BUT, the GPX is a great bike to get going in 250 Production with. They really work well. So if you can sort it out, do so and get out there.

Well put Steve,Good on the op for asking the question and reading the rulebook,We need people to understand that their machinery needs to fit the rules for each class so that its fair for everybody and clowns like Yow Ling are the sort of people that create more and more work for the volunteers that have to deal with these issues at the coalface and as you have stated,More often than not it's those people that feel like shit when they have to turn somebody away.

[Billy]

just bring it out, easier to ask for forgiveness than permission

can run it at CAMs just how it is

What a complete idiot you are,

The op asked the question of how to make his machine comply with the MNZ rules for Prolite and here you are suggesting he just turn up with whatever and ask forgiveness,Good idea,Then you and your anti establishment mates can waste everybodys valuable time arguing that he should be allowed to race anyway cause your all "special" and the rules don't apply to you,In the meantime the bulk of the competitors are trying their hardest to comply,It just wastes a whole lot of resources that could otherwise be used to improve the sport.

[Billy]

I have a GPX250 here which a previous owner had savaged, I think perhaps he was wanting to turn it into a streetfighter or something?

I noticed that he has cut off some of the brackets on the rear subframe, Will this make the bike illegal for this class? Will I have to try and replicate these?

The muffler/footrest mounting hanger has been removed and the brackets have been cut off, would it be legal for me to make a new hanger out of steel, rather than having to try and cast a new aluminium one?

Is it legal to remove the wires from the loom which arn't in use anymore?, IE. the wiring for the lights and gauges etc which are no longer fitted, or do I just have to sort of tape these spare wires, plugs etc to the frame to stop them flapping around. I would prefer to remove them as it would be much tidier.

I don't have the original plastic mounting plates which the ignition unit, fusebox and regulator/rectifier are mounted to, can I just make one out of aluminium?

It didn't come with any fairings, is it legal to run in this class without them? I was just going to run the bike fully naked if aloud.

Can the radiator fan and wiring be removed?

Any help on this would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,

Sam

Hi Sam,

Thanks for bothering to ask,If everybody involved had your attitude we would all be a lot better off,Firstly,If you want a sensible and reasoned response,Kiwibiker is not the place to ask as youve probably worked out by now,Firstly not all the GPX models are homologated for the class,But to save you whole bunch of time searching for the information you require,Email me at mnzrrc@gmail.com and I'll deal with your concerns and queries so you know your bike will be with in the rules,Please do not listen to the EinSTEINs on here.

[Yow Ling]

What a complete idiot you are,

The op asked the question of how to make his machine comply with the MNZ rules for Prolite and here you are suggesting he just turn up with whatever and ask forgiveness,Good idea,Then you and your anti establishment mates can waste everybodys valuable time arguing that he should be allowed to race anyway cause your all "special" and the rules don't apply to you,In the meantime the bulk of the competitors are trying their hardest to comply,It just wastes a whole lot of resources that could otherwise be used to improve the sport.

If only you (mnz) could be so even handed when approached to clarify the bucket rules, the offical answer there was sort it out yourselves, you a clown too when you want to be !
Members have written to MNZ seeking clarification only to be ignored, when you poke a bit of fun at the prolite sacred cow you get instant response, the problem isnt me being anti establishment at all its just a matter of fair treatment. I guess the thread will just die now

[Grumph]

What a complete idiot you are,

The op asked the question of how to make his machine comply with the MNZ rules for Prolite and here you are suggesting he just turn up with whatever and ask forgiveness,Good idea,Then you and your anti establishment mates can waste everybodys valuable time arguing that he should be allowed to race anyway cause your all "special" and the rules don't apply to you,In the meantime the bulk of the competitors are trying their hardest to comply,It just wastes a whole lot of resources that could otherwise be used to improve the sport.

Calm down a tad, Billy. While I don't disagree with you re National Prolite rules, YowLing's answer was perfectly valid for an owner in ChCH. CAMS are running an OPEN 250 fourstroke/150 twostroke class this season and the OP's bike will b legal as is providing the mechanical safety boxes are ticked.
If he's on a limited budget and can't find the bits at an affordable price to make it prolite legal, it's still going to be another bike on track for the CAMS class which is a win/win for MNZ surely.

[TygerTung]

I just thought it would be good to have it on the forum, as then anyone else who was interested in the same information could read it here, so as to not get the same questions asked all the time.

f)
Passenger footpeg brackets may be unbolted only – NO cutting
allowed. In cases where the peg hanger is used as a muffler
bracket, it may be replaced with an alternative of the same
material or heavier


I think I should be alright with the exhaust hangers as the rules seem to state that I can make a new one out of a heavier material. Since I don't have a foundry setup in my backyard yet, I'll just make one out of steel.

i)
The fitment of an aftermarket sub frame supporting the seat
and tailpiece is allowed providing that the construction is as the
original OEM parts both in material, construction and design.
Items (battery, wiring, ecu, etc) must be fitted to the aftermarket
Sub frame in the same position as the original OEM fitment.


It would appear to be legal to construct a new subframe, so a factory one with 2 brackets removed should be ok I think.
As long as I can mount the regulator/rectifier, fuse box, and CDI unit in the same place, that should be within the regulations as well.
Looking at the rules again it would appear that the radiator fan and wiring can be removed.

n)
Carburettor jetting and slides. Fuel injected models may run
model specific” plug and play, Power Commander type” mixture
controllers.
NO other modifications/ alterations/ additions to fuel mixture
control, ignition curves or wiring loom are allowable
o)
Ignition, Engine control module/unit (ICM, ECU, ECM) and
wiring loom must remain standard.


The only thing I am uncertain of is the legalility of removing the redundant wiring for the lighting, indicators, brake lights etc. I think I am not permitted to do so, although looking at these regulations it would appear that it may be talking about the wiring loom for the ECU and ignition circuits.

Fairings are not listed the the list of things which are able to be removed, so I guess that I will not be allowed to run in the nationals unless I can try to find some fairings to replace the missing ones with.

Thank you for your responses everyone.

[Billy]

Calm down a tad, Billy. While I don't disagree with you re National Prolite rules, YowLing's answer was perfectly valid for an owner in ChCH. CAMS are running an OPEN 250 fourstroke/150 twostroke class this season and the OP's bike will b legal as is providing the mechanical safety boxes are ticked.
If he's on a limited budget and can't find the bits at an affordable price to make it prolite legal, it's still going to be another bike on track for the CAMS class which is a win/win for MNZ surely.

Absolutely agree re the class that CAM'S run and if that was the sole content of the reply,I would have made no comment,But the comment of just turn up and beg forgiveness is more than a little disruptive to the likes of Dennis and Angela Charlett,Merv Orford and the crew at MCI who are working hard to help get this class in order as are the rest of us at MNZ,Should also be noted that since I started working with them the development class has been introduced and appears to be flourishing.

[Billy]

If only you (mnz) could be so even handed when approached to clarify the bucket rules, the offical answer there was sort it out yourselves, you a clown too when you want to be !
Members have written to MNZ seeking clarification only to be ignored, when you poke a bit of fun at the prolite sacred cow you get instant response, the problem isnt me being anti establishment at all its just a matter of fair treatment. I guess the thread will just die now

Wow,You got me now,Or not,Since I took over running the commission in January this year,I have yet to receive an email of any sort re Miniature roadracing,I have however had a number of phone conversations with officials and helpers from Mt Wellington and the Wellington team on different aspects including the inception of a junior roadrace class for 8-10 year olds,I have briefed both Dennis Charlett and Andrew Presant on this,Maybe your just not kept in the loop for some reason,Whatever the problem is,Its not at MNZ.Maybe you can now clarify how that makes me a clown ?????

[Billy]

I just thought it would be good to have it on the forum, as then anyone else who was interested in the same information could read it here, so as to not get the same questions asked all the time.

f)
Passenger footpeg brackets may be unbolted only – NO cutting
allowed. In cases where the peg hanger is used as a muffler
bracket, it may be replaced with an alternative of the same
material or heavier


I think I should be alright with the exhaust hangers as the rules seem to state that I can make a new one out of a heavier material. Since I don't have a foundry setup in my backyard yet, I'll just make one out of steel.

i)
The fitment of an aftermarket sub frame supporting the seat
and tailpiece is allowed providing that the construction is as the
original OEM parts both in material, construction and design.
Items (battery, wiring, ecu, etc) must be fitted to the aftermarket
Sub frame in the same position as the original OEM fitment.


It would appear to be legal to construct a new subframe, so a factory one with 2 brackets removed should be ok I think.
As long as I can mount the regulator/rectifier, fuse box, and CDI unit in the same place, that should be within the regulations as well.
Looking at the rules again it would appear that the radiator fan and wiring can be removed.

n)
Carburettor jetting and slides. Fuel injected models may run
model specific” plug and play, Power Commander type” mixture
controllers.
NO other modifications/ alterations/ additions to fuel mixture
control, ignition curves or wiring loom are allowable
o)
Ignition, Engine control module/unit (ICM, ECU, ECM) and
wiring loom must remain standard.


The only thing I am uncertain of is the legalility of removing the redundant wiring for the lighting, indicators, brake lights etc. I think I am not permitted to do so, although looking at these regulations it would appear that it may be talking about the wiring loom for the ECU and ignition circuits.

Fairings are not listed the the list of things which are able to be removed, so I guess that I will not be allowed to run in the nationals unless I can try to find some fairings to replace the missing ones with.

Thank you for your responses everyone.

Not quite correct Sam,Thats why I suggested you contact me through the appropriate email address.

[Yow Ling]

Wow,You got me now,Or not,Since I took over running the commission in January this year,I have yet to receive an email of any sort re Miniature roadracing,I have however had a number of phone conversations with officials and helpers from Mt Wellington and the Wellington team on different aspects including the inception of a junior roadrace class for 8-10 year olds,I have briefed both Dennis Charlett and Andrew Presant on this,Maybe your just not kept in the loop for some reason,Whatever the problem is,Its not at MNZ.Maybe you can now clarify how that makes me a clown ?????

As you represent MNZ on matters of roadracing it hardly matters that you only have been in the position since January

A letter from Peter R


Subject: Re: MNZ rule clarification or rule change required
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2011 23:09:19 +1300

Hi again Gavin

The rule reads pretty clearly from where I'm looking - the use of competition engines and gearboxes is specifically disallowed ....... the ORIGINAL wording from 25 odd years ago is probably better, but what we have now is fine.

As one who was building and racing buckets from the first day they escaped the Airforce, I can tell you the intent of the original rules was to encourage the building of performance, not simply the buying of horsepower in the guise of factory race parts. So the rules specifically excluded the use of these .... and there was no such thing as RS125 framed MB100 cylindered MB50's either. But centre-hub steered G4TR's with watercooled RG cylinders grafted on were rightly applauded. Homemade alloy monocoques with VT250 headed CB125 engines were cool, and LEGAL

The Bucket community needs to be self-policing to an extent - if people are building bikes with illegal parts, suggest you do something about it by putting pressure on the guilty parties yourselves

Hope this helps ??????

Cheers
Peter R


What he is saying is if somebody cheats sort it out yourself, today you jump on me for even suggesting some gentle rulebending to get an extra competitor on the track


Getting clarification on a rule is harder than you think.

Over the last few months I have written three times to MNZ regarding clarification of the 24mm carb rule without any outcome, or even an acknowledgement, and yes I did phone the office to check they had receved them.

At the last Mt Welly meeting JC talked with the Road Race Commisioner about clarification of the carb rule so lets hope something comes of that.

Robert Willis iss a respected tuner and bucket racer in Aukland, he has nothing to gain by making this up


I think if you read the rule as it was written, but just separate the two main points, you have a perfectly valid interpretation that allows individual components,but NOT Engines ( a whole entity ) or Transmissions Parts ( a main component) from the competition bikes etc

like this

"Motocross, Road Racing, Enduro and Go Kart motors.......... and transmission parts are not permitted".

If you work this backwards for one type mentioned ,you can say.
"Transmission Parts from a Go Kart are not allowed"

and then you can say.
" Go Kart Motors" are not allowed.

Nowhere is there a statement included in the wording, that points to" Individual Parts from a Go Kart engine" are not allowed.

This is NOT a Loophole its a Black Hole thats so bloody obvious I dont understand why there could be any other legal interpretation.
Sorry guys, using a KT100 piston is just as legal as a KT100 rod/bearing/washers, but using a KT100 Engine is out.

This is a little like the F3 rules - where you can build an engine that contains ALL the parts from a GP roadracer,except for the cases that must be road bike based.

Here is the questionable rule that when seeking assistance from MNZ none was forthcoming

You are probably no more a clown than I am a complete idiot as you stated earlier, if you can make that judgement based on 10 words i posted on KB you have superpowers

[jasonu]

Wow,You got me now,Or not,Since I took over running the commission in January this year,I have yet to receive an email of any sort re Miniature roadracing

There were a lot of questions asked of the MNZ (Peter Ramage) last year re Bucket carb rules, looking for clarifications and ruleings and were told the class is 'self policeing' ie do it yourself 'cause we (the MNZ) have better things to do with our time. With the large Bucket entry numbers and license fees and the cash it generates for the clubs AND the MNZ I would have thought a better response was in order.
Maybe this, and other ignored Bucket issues is why you haven't personally recieved any emails about Buckets.

[TygerTung]

Not quite correct Sam,Thats why I suggested you contact me through the appropriate email address.

I have emailed you.

[Billy]

As you represent MNZ on matters of roadracing it hardly matters that you only have been in the position since January

A letter from Peter R


What he is saying is if somebody cheats sort it out yourself, today you jump on me for even suggesting some gentle rulebending to get an extra competitor on the track



Robert Willis iss a respected tuner and bucket racer in Aukland, he has nothing to gain by making this up



Here is the questionable rule that when seeking assistance from MNZ none was forthcoming

You are probably no more a clown than I am a complete idiot as you stated earlier, if you can make that judgement based on 10 words i posted on KB you have superpowers

Oh dear,So by your reckoning then,Everything that has happened in roadracing in the past is my doing????Suggesting some gentle rule bending?Really,Looked more to me like you suggested he just turn up with whatever and plead foregiveness,Don't even think about it while I'm roadrace commissioner,Atleast at National level!!!

Yip I know who Robert Willis is and Wobbly,Talk to him regularly as he lives local and I just designed and supplied the bodywork for his Aprilia/RZ Superlite machinery,Also had Jimmy Steadman here last weekend buying some stuff for a new bucket he's building and yes theyve spoken too me about rulechanges and clarifications as has Andrew Presant from the vic club and know what they are required to do for me to consider them,But as yet they havent bothered,Maybe your just not in the loop as I suggested earlier,Either way theres no way it can be of my doing,But you keep thinking whatever you like

[Billy]

I have emailed you.

All good mate,Just turned the computer back on half an hour ago,Will reply asap

[Yow Ling]

Oh dear,So by your reckoning then,Everything that has happened in roadracing in the past is my doing????
No not at all, just saying MNZ has recently been uneven in following up on things



Suggesting some gentle rule bending?Really,Looked more to me like you suggested he just turn up with whatever and plead foregiveness,Don't even think about it while I'm roadrace commissioner,Atleast at National level!!!
So at club level its ok? Which is what I assumed Sam was asking about


Yip I know who Robert Willis is and Wobbly,Talk to him regularly as he lives local and I just designed and supplied the bodywork for his Aprilia/RZ Superlite machinery,Also had Jimmy Steadman here last weekend buying some stuff for a new bucket he's building and yes theyve spoken too me about rulechanges and clarifications as has Andrew Presant from the vic club and know what they are required to do for me to consider them,But as yet they havent bothered,Maybe your just not in the loop as I suggested earlier,Either way theres no way it can be of my doing,But you keep thinking whatever you like
I wasnt asking if you knew these people , I was just giving an example of how MNZ were unhelpfull and expect buckets to sort out their own issues, and the level of attention given to a relativly small new class gets the gold plated treatment. I have no problem with rules so long as they are applied consistently.

[Billy]

I have emailed you.

Reply sent 5 mins ago.

[jasonu]

Oh dear,So by your reckoning then,Everything that has happened in roadracing in the past is my doing????

No one said it was your doing simply pointing out that there have been unanswered/ignored questions that were put to the MNZ. Maybe you should do a little research and see what has been requested and maybe address these requests.
What took place before you took over this position isn't your fault but now you're it.

[Billy]

No one said it was your doing simply pointing out that there have been unanswered/ignored questions that were put to the MNZ. Maybe you should do a little research and see what has been requested and maybe address these requests.
What took place before you took over this position isn't your fault but now you're it.

You mean like the posties who had been ignored for 2 years before I took over in regard to the Pre89 F1/F2/F3 classes who reapplied immediately I took and have had their request dealt with as well as Championship status for the TT and GP in those classes?

Mate if you had even the slightest idea just how big the job of running the commission was and add to the fact its an unpaid position that eats up 30+ hours a week if you deal with the requests that come through the 2 email accts,You would know exactly why I don't go back through the system looking for more work,As I have already stated I am in regular contact with a number of the people involved in running miniature roadracing and none of them have put forward any submissions for change.

[Yow Ling]

You mean like the posties who had been ignored for 2 years before I took over in regard to the Pre89 F1/F2/F3 classes who reapplied immediately I took and have had their request dealt with as well as Championship status for the TT and GP in those classes?

Mate if you had even the slightest idea just how big the job of running the commission was and add to the fact its an unpaid position that eats up 30+ hours a week if you deal with the requests that come through the 2 email accts,You would know exactly why I don't go back through the system looking for more work,As I have already stated I am in regular contact with a number of the people involved in running miniature roadracing and none of them have put forward any submissions for change.

Hi Billy, you are right we have no idea how big the job is, or how much of your time it consumes. I sure wouldnt put my hand up for it.
At our end we make the assumption that MNZ dont care about buckets other than collecting our fees, and based on past history asking for anything is a waste of time. Maybe that will change under your command. I dont think anyone was asking for a submission for change, just simple clarification of the rules, what is the correct process for that? I looked on the MNZ site and could only find the process for changing a rule.

Being self policing is fine untill you encounter a problem that needs the authority of the organisation to back it, how can you argue that a RS125 barrel is illegal on a bucket when the rules clearly indicate it isnt illegal, it may be against the spirit of the rules, but it is the actual rules that we race by.

[Billy]

Hi Billy, you are right we have no idea how big the job is, or how much of your time it consumes. I sure wouldnt put my hand up for it.
At our end we make the assumption that MNZ dont care about buckets other than collecting our fees, and based on past history asking for anything is a waste of time. Maybe that will change under your command. I dont think anyone was asking for a submission for change, just simple clarification of the rules, what is the correct process for that? I looked on the MNZ site and could only find the process for changing a rule.

Being self policing is fine untill you encounter a problem that needs the authority of the organisation to back it, how can you argue that a RS125 barrel is illegal on a bucket when the rules clearly indicate it isnt illegal, it may be against the spirit of the rules, but it is the actual rules that we race by.

Yip,Self policing is always going to be difficult and to be completely honest,I personally don't have a huge amount of experience in the area of miniature roadracing,What I do have however is a good working relationship with some of the people mentioned earlier and if I was to be questioned on any aspect I was unsure about,I discuss the matter with those who do have the expertise,To be honest the correct channels were used in the past and I can only state in Peter's defence at the time he was probably just too busy to deal with some requests as he was moved to Auckland from Invercargill as part of his job and lost contact with some of his support base,Quite honestly he did the best job he could under the circumstances and despite some folks not feeling like they were dealt with to a satisfactory level,He did a good job of running the sport,If you or anybodty else need a clarification your first contact should be too me at mnzrrc@gmail.com

[FROSTY]

Looking at this thread as a non involved partyguys. The OP SPECIFICALLY was asking regarding bike setup to conform with PROLITE RULES. On that basis its pretty cut and dried regarding the rules isn't it?
Billy I do have to ask you why certain models of GPX250 are Homologated and others aren't.Is it just they have such a long model run?

[Henk]

Wild guess here on my part but I suspect the current model ninja ex250j and whatever followed it are homologated but the earlier gpx isn't.

[TygerTung]

Is there any way to find a list of bikes which have been homologated?

[quickbuck]

As you represent MNZ on matters of roadracing it hardly matters that you only have been in the position since January

A letter from Peter R


What he is saying is if somebody cheats sort it out yourself,




I do not think he was saying anything of the sort.
He said you need to Self Police to some extent.

The whole thing about Bucket racing was IF YOU CAN BUILD IT, then Fair Game!

This is how it started..... (for those that don't know, and the story I was told 22 years ago by my boss)
There were once a group of Air Force lads who had a little time on their hands, so they looked out acrss the vast stretches of tarmac, and decided to modify their farm bikes to be more suitable for tarmac racing.
They cut all the unessary bits off them, and put on some road tyres, set up some cones, and went for gold.

Obviously some rules needed to be drafted up. So in keeping with the spirit of Kiwi enginuity any mods you could make you self were allowed. Sleeving down your YZ125 wasn't considered fair! Or indeed stealing your little brothers YZ80!

The single sided swing arm bike was made in a garage.
Water cooled heads became coman place.
Supercharging was allowed (with a lower cc limit)... good luck with that...
There were other ingenius things.... I remember Dave Griffiths and boys and indeed Morley Shirrifs and boys were right into it in the early 90's, along with many, many more names... and some on this site...

So my point.... (finally, and sorry for dribbling)
The Self Policing comes from the Air Force culture in reality.
It means that if you have noticed that one of your competitors has done something new, make sure the mods are in the spirit of the rules.
There is no need to tell the bosses about it, or get them involved (in this case it is MNZ), it can be sorted out on the workshop floor.
The RNZAF does it a lot. How often do you reckon we hassle the CAA?

Hope that makes sence.....
But then I guess it is easier to Self Police something when you are actually used to doing it.

[Henk]

Is there any way to find a list of bikes which have been homologated?

http://www.mnz.co.nz/download/Homologated_Road_Race_Bikes.pdf

But it looks like every bike they have ever homologated so getting in touch with MNZ for clarification might not astray.

[FROSTY]

QB you aint far off the mark except it was back in the days where cars were darned expensive and everyone on base had a 50cc two stroke commuter bike or a 100cc two stroke/125cc four stroke commuter bike. The origonal "rules" were just run what you brung ensuring a pukka MX bike or roadrace bike couldn't enter. times have changed in reality to suit the available stuff as the old commuters have been replaced with 150cc four strokes.

[quickbuck]

Is there any way to find a list of bikes which have been homologated?

Sorry to take your thread a little off topic there buddy....
As for a list.. Good question, and it would be good to see a full list. I usually just ask Billy if a bike has been or not...
He may well tell you in an e-mail.
But I think it goes something like this:
As long it was imported as a NZ model, and has sold more than 50 units (or they imported 50 units for sale) then it is good to go.
I might well be wrong with that though ;)

So a Japanese Market only bike is a no go (from what i understand, otherwise one could get a really warmish little beast from over there...).

I have a 2010 Ninja 250r, and ProLite (Now 250 Production) is an awesome class. Especially if you have a small budget.
As said earlier, Blair races an 1988 GPX250. Awesome bike, and makes more power out of the little twin than the 2008-2011 Ninjas (Same motor though). Handicap was 16" Rear Wheel.

The best bit about being really tight on the rules is this:
If for some reason my bike can't make the next round, then there is nothing stippong me borrowing my mates Ninja, and after an hours work I can race that easily.

[TygerTung]

It seems the only homologated GPX's on the list are the EX250 F2-F16 1988-2002 and EX250 F7F 2007

Mine is a 1988 EX250E-031184 though, which must be an earlier model and not on the list. It has been imported from Japan though which may make it ineligible. Apparently some of the imported VTR-250's have more power than the locally sold ones so imported bikes may be ineligible.

I don't know if the imported GPX250's have more power or not, I would suspect not, I will have to enquire to Kawasaki.

[Skunk]

...theyve spoken too me about rulechanges and clarifications as has Andrew Presant from the vic club and know what they are required to do for me to consider them,But as yet they havent bothered,...Right then. Here I was easing your workload... Time to fire up the email program.

Oh, and for God's sake Billy - learn punctuation. It makes it easier to read your rambles. :facepalm:

[FROSTY]

It seems the only homologated GPX's on the list are the EX250 F2-F16 1988-2002 and EX250 F7F 2007

Mine is a 1988 EX250E-031184 though, which must be an earlier model and not on the list. It has been imported from Japan though which may make it ineligible. Apparently some of the imported VTR-250's have more power than the locally sold ones so imported bikes may be ineligible.

I don't know if the imported GPX250's have more power or not, I would suspect not, I will have to enquire to Kawasaki.
Ialways thought the little Honda Spada 250 would be the ultimate prolite bike. But being a jap market grey import....

[Billy]

Right then. Here I was easing your workload... Time to fire up the email program.

Oh, and for God's sake Billy - learn punctuation. It makes it easier to read your rambles. :facepalm:

Why you dont listen to anything I say anyway!!!

[Billy]

Ialways thought the little Honda Spada 250 would be the ultimate prolite bike. But being a jap market grey import....

Yip,You hit it the nail right on the head there Frosty,Tygatung is being a bit mischevious now,Ive already explained all this too him and it is me he got the list of homologated Ninjas from,I also gave him the 0800 number for Kawasaki and the contact there(Wayne List) to discuss why the import models were not homologated:facepalm::facepalm:

For anybody thats interested the homologated bikes list is under the heading sports news on the homepage of the MNZ website and scroll down,Not that I should have too tell anybody as you should all have made yourselves familiar with the website while reading up on the rules!!!!

[Yow Ling]

For anybody thats interested the homologated bikes list is under the heading sports news on the homepage of the MNZ website and scroll down,Not that I should have too tell anybody as you should all have made yourselves familiar with the website while reading up on the rules!!!!

linky http://www.mnz.co.nz/download/Homologated_Road_Race_Bikes.pdf

[Billy]

linky http://www.mnz.co.nz/download/Homologated_Road_Race_Bikes.pdf

Err yea I wouldve done that but I'm a technophobe,Thanks.

[wayne]

so a 2012 hyosung gt250r not allowed ?

[Billy]

so a 2012 hyosung gt250r not allowed ?

Yip,It's been homologated,Just hasn't made it onto the website as yet.

[budda]

I do not think he was saying anything of the sort.
He said you need to Self Police to some extent.

The whole thing about Bucket racing was IF YOU CAN BUILD IT, then Fair Game!

This is how it started..... (for those that don't know, and the story I was told 22 years ago by my boss)
There were once a group of Air Force lads who had a little time on their hands, so they looked out acrss the vast stretches of tarmac, and decided to modify their farm bikes to be more suitable for tarmac racing.
They cut all the unessary bits off them, and put on some road tyres, set up some cones, and went for gold.

Obviously some rules needed to be drafted up. So in keeping with the spirit of Kiwi enginuity any mods you could make you self were allowed. Sleeving down your YZ125 wasn't considered fair! Or indeed stealing your little brothers YZ80!

The single sided swing arm bike was made in a garage.
Water cooled heads became coman place.
Supercharging was allowed (with a lower cc limit)... good luck with that...
There were other ingenius things.... I remember Dave Griffiths and boys and indeed Morley Shirrifs and boys were right into it in the early 90's, along with many, many more names... and some on this site...

So my point.... (finally, and sorry for dribbling)
The Self Policing comes from the Air Force culture in reality.
It means that if you have noticed that one of your competitors has done something new, make sure the mods are in the spirit of the rules.
There is no need to tell the bosses about it, or get them involved (in this case it is MNZ), it can be sorted out on the workshop floor.
The RNZAF does it a lot. How often do you reckon we hassle the CAA?

Hope that makes sence.....
But then I guess it is easier to Self Police something when you are actually used to doing it.

Exactly right - just for clarification - what I said, what I meant then and what I stand by now is this .... if one of your fellow competitors is operating outside the rules the rest of you are following, surely its better to have a gentle word and get them back on the right path rather than force some other poor bastard, who gives up his time to try and make POSITIVE change, into the role of Judge, Jury and Bailiff. If theres cheating going on, sort it - IF that doesnt work, THEN involve MNZ

[Yow Ling]

Exactly right - just for clarification - what I said, what I meant then and what I stand by now is this .... if one of your fellow competitors is operating outside the rules the rest of you are following, surely its better to have a gentle word and get them back on the right path rather than force some other poor bastard, who gives up his time to try and make POSITIVE change, into the role of Judge, Jury and Bailiff. If theres cheating going on, sort it - IF that doesnt work, THEN involve MNZ

Actually you were simply asked to clarify 2 points in the rules, something the racers cannot do. One related to the 24mm carburetion equivelent rule and the other an ambigous rule regarding competition engines, nobody needed hanging, and MNZ wernt interested.

[quickbuck]

For anybody thats interested the homologated bikes list is under the heading sports news on the homepage of the MNZ website and scroll down,Not that I should have too tell anybody as you should all have made yourselves familiar with the website while reading up on the rules!!!!
I see a reaccuring theme here Billy.....
It may well be as simple as the MNZ Web Site isn't user friendly/ or a little clumbsy..... And my phone won't go there!
That is how i find it, any how.....

[TygerTung]

I havn't had a chance yet to ring up Kawasaki and find out what the difference is between the earlier EX250 E import and the later model EX250 F's etc which were sold new in New Zealand.

Probably will do tommorow.

[TygerTung]

Homologation is a technical term, derived from the Greek homologeo (ὁμολογέω) for "to agree", which is generally used in English to signify the granting of approval by an official authority

n motorsports a vehicle must be homologated by the sanctioning body to race in a given league, such as World Superbikes, International Level Kart Racing or other sportscar racing series.

Where a racing class requires that the vehicles raced be production vehicles only slightly adapted for racing, manufacturers typically produce a limited run of such vehicles for public sale so that they can legitimately race them in the class. These vehicles are commonly called "homologation specials".[2]


I found that on wikipedia, so if anyone is unsure what Homologation means, there you have it. I didn't really know myself

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homologation

[Billy]

I see a reaccuring theme here Billy.....
It may well be as simple as the MNZ Web Site isn't user friendly/ or a little clumbsy..... And my phone won't go there!
That is how i find it, any how.....

Well I don't have any problem negotiating it and I'm a self confessed technophobe.

[quickbuck]

Well I don't have any problem negotiating it and I'm a self confessed technophobe.

Yup,
Now I am at a real computer I can look at the site......
However my time on it is pretty limited when the teens are in the house!

It is the drop down menus my phone has the issues with, that is when I can actually get the home page.... Probibly more to do with the lack of functionality with my phone, as it isn't really a computer!
I do remember the days when you had to talk to a lady in a room before you could talk to your mate next door though.... so not that young myself ;)

[budda]

Well I don't have any problem negotiating it and I'm a self confessed technophobe.

Yeah, but you WERE trained by the best ............

[Billy]

Yeah, but you WERE trained by the best ............

Hahahahahaha! I dont consider you spitting the dummy and throwing your toys out of the cot in the middle of a National series and leaving me too it training LOL, Best what?

[budda]

Hahahahahaha! I dont consider you spitting the dummy and throwing your toys out of the cot in the middle of a National series and leaving me too it training LOL, Best what?

And now that you're in the hot seat, you fully understand WHY, eh ? Typo, meant BIGGEST